27. Death by Fire? Probably Not

American politics is trapped in a duopoly, with two all-powerful parties colluding to stifle competition. We revisit a 2018 episode to explain how the political industry works, and talk to a reformer (and former presidential candidate) who is pushing for change.

• SOURCES:
  • Katherine Gehl, former president and C.E.O. of Gehl Foods.
  • Michael Porter, professor at Harvard Business School.
  • Andrew Yang, co-chair of the Forward Party and former U.S. presidential candidate.

• RESOURCES:
  • "Why U.S. Politics Is Broken — and How to Fix It," by Andrew Yang (TED, 2024).
  • The Politics Industry: How Political Innovation Can Break Partisan Gridlock and Save Our Democracy, by Michael Porter and Katherine Gehl (2020).
  • “Why Competition in the Politics Industry is Failing America,” Katherine Gehl and Michael Porter (Harvard Business School, 2017).
  • “Stronger Parties, Stronger Democracy: Rethinking Reform,” by Ian Vandewalker and  Daniel I. Weiner (Brennan Center for Justice, 2015).
  • On Competition, by Michael Porter (2008).
  • Competitive Strategy: Techniques for Analyzing Industries and Competitors, by Michael Porter (1980).

• EXTRAS:
  • "Andrew Yang Is Not Giving Up on Politics — or the U.S. — Yet," by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021).
  • "The Future of New York City Is in Question. Could Andrew Yang Be the Answer?" by Freakonomics Radio (2021).
  • "Why Is This Man Running for President? (Update)," by Freakonomics Radio (2019).
  • “Ten Ideas to Make Politics Less Rotten,” Freakonomics Radio (2016).

It’s hard to know whether the benefits of hiring a celebrity are worth the risk. We dig into one gruesome story of an endorsement gone wrong, and find a surprising result.

• SOURCES:
  • John Cawley, professor of economics at Cornell University.
  • Elizabeth (Zab) Johnson, executive director and senior fellow with the Wharton Neuroscience Initiative at the University of Pennsylvania.
  • Alvin Roth, professor of economics at Stanford University.

• RESOURCES:
  • "Kanye and Adidas: Money, Misconduct and the Price of Appeasement," by Megan Twohey (The New York Times, 2023).
  • "The Role of Repugnance in Markets: How the Jared Fogle Scandal Affected Patronage of Subway," by John Cawley, Julia Eddelbuettel, Scott Cunningham, Matthew D. Eisenberg, Alan D. Mathios, and Rosemary J. Avery (NBER Working Paper, 2023).
  • "How Celebrity Status and Gaze Direction in Ads Drive Visual Attention to Shape Consumer Decisions," by Simone D'Ambrogio, Noah Werksman, Michael L. Platt, and Elizabeth Johnson (Psychology & Marketing, 2022).
  • "Consumer Responses to Firms’ Voluntary Disclosure of Information: Evidence from Calorie Labeling by Starbucks," by Rosemary Avery, John Cawley, Julia Eddelbuettel, Matthew D. Eisenberg, Charlie Mann, and Alan D. Mathios (NBER Working Paper, 2021).
  • "Consumer Heterogeneity and Paid Search Effectiveness: A Large Scale Field Experiment," by Thomas Blake, Chris Nosko, and Steven Tadelis (NBER Working Paper, 2014).
  • "The Economics of Obesity," by John Cawley (The Reporter, 2013).
  • "Repugnance as a Constraint on Markets," by Alvin Roth (Journal of Economic Perspectives, 2007).

• EXTRAS:
  • "Does Advertising Actually Work? (Part 2: Digital)," by Freakonomics Radio (2020).
  • "Does Advertising Actually Work? (Part 1: TV)," by Freakonomics Radio (2020).

Broadway operates on a winner-take-most business model. A runaway hit like Stereophonic — which just won five Tony Awards — will create a few big winners. But even the stars of the show will have to go elsewhere to make real money. (Part two of a two-part series.)

• SOURCES:
  • David Adjmi, author and playwright.
  • Sonia Friedman, theater producer and founder of Sonia Friedman Productions.
  • John Johnson, theater producer and co-founder of Wagner Johnson Productions.
  • Tom Pecinka, actor.
  • Sarah Pidgeon, actor.

• RESOURCES:
  • "Tony Award Winners 2024: The Full List," by Rachel Sherman (The New York Times, 2024).
  • "Everything to Know About the Stranger Things: The First Shadow Play in London," by Tara Bitran (Tudum, 2024).
  • Stereophonic, by David Adjmi, Will Butler, and Daniel Aukin (2023).

• EXTRAS:
  • "How to Make the Coolest Show on Broadway," by Freakonomics Radio (2024).

The Berlin dance mecca Berghain is known for its eight-hour line and inscrutable door policy. PJ Vogt, host of the podcast Search Engine, joins us to crack the code. It has to do with Cold War rivalries, German tax law, and one very talented bouncer.

• SOURCES:
  • Lutz Leichsenring, executive board member of Clubcommission Berlin and co-founder of VibeLab.
  • PJ Vogt, reporter, writer, and host of the podcast Search Engine.

• RESOURCES:
  • "Berghain: 36 Hours Inside the World's Most Exclusive Nightclub," by Linux (Paper Magazine, 2022).
  • Berlin Bouncer, documentary by David Dietl (2019).
  • "High Culture Club: Berghain Secures Same Tax Status as Berlin Concert Venues," by Philip Oltermann (The Guardian, 2016).
  • "One Eye on the Door, the Other on His Photography," by Nicholas Kulish (The New York Times, 2011).
  • Lost and Sound: Berlin, Techno and the Easyjet Set, by Tobias Rapp (2009).

• EXTRA:
  • Search Engine, podcast by PJ Vogt.

Hit by Covid, runaway costs, and a zillion streams of competition, serious theater is in serious trouble. A new hit play called Stereophonic — the most Tony-nominated play in history — has something to say about that. We speak with the people who make it happen every night. (Part one of a two-part series.)

• SOURCES:
  • David Adjmi, author and playwright.
  • Sonia Friedman, theater producer and founder of Sonia Friedman Productions.
  • John Johnson, theater producer and co-founder of Wagner Johnson Productions.
  • Tom Pecinka, actor.
  • Sarah Pidgeon, actor.

• RESOURCES:
  • Stereophonic, by David Adjmi, Will Butler, and Daniel Aukin (2023).
  • Lot Six: A Memoir, by David Adjmi (2020).
  • "On the Performing Arts: The Anatomy of Their Economic Problems," by W. J. Baumol and W. G. Bowen (The American Economic Review, 1965).

Every December, a British man named Tom Whitwell publishes a list of 52 things he’s learned that year. These fascinating facts reveal the spectrum of human behavior, from fraud and hypocrisy to Whitwell’s steadfast belief in progress. Should we also believe?

• SOURCES:
  • Tom Whitwell, managing consultant at Magnetic.

• RESOURCES:
  • "Supercentenarian and Remarkable Age Records Exhibit Patterns Indicative of Clerical Errors and Pension Fraud," by Saul Justin Newman (Working Paper, 2024).
  • "52 things I learned in 2023," by Tom Whitwell (Magnetic Notes, 2023).
  • "Job Satisfaction 2023," by The Conference Board (2023).
  • "What Fax Machines and Floppy Disks Reveal About Britain’s Productivity Problem," (The Economist, 2017).
  • Fighting Traffic: The Dawn of the Motor Age in the American City, by Peter D. Norton (2008).
  • "Beyond Propaganda," by John Kenney (The New York Times, 2006).

An update of our 2020 series, in which we spoke with physicians, researchers, and addicts about the root causes of the crisis — and the tension between abstinence and harm reduction.

• SOURCES:
  • Gail D’Onofrio, professor and chair of emergency medicine at the Yale School of Medicine and chief of emergency services at Yale-New Haven Health.
  • Keith Humphreys, professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at Stanford University.
  • Stephen Loyd, chief medical officer of Cedar Recovery and chair of the Tennessee Opioid Abatement Council.
  • Nicole O’Donnell, certified recovery specialist at the University of Pennsylvania's Center for Addiction Medicine and Policy.
  • Jeanmarie Perrone, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Pennsylvania.
  • Eileen Richardson, restaurant manager.

• RESOURCES:
  • “Toward Healthy Drug Policy in the United States — The Case of Safehouse,” by Evan D. Anderson, Leo Beletsky, Scott Burris, and Corey S. Davis (The New England Journal of Medicine, 2020).
  • “Buprenorphine Deregulation and Mainstreaming Treatment for Opioid Use Disorder,” by Leo Beletsky, Kevin Fiscella, and Sarah E. Wakeman (JAMA Psychiatry, 2018).
  • “Emergency Department–Initiated Buprenorphine/Naloxone Treatment for Opioid Dependence,” by Gail D’Onofrio, Patrick G. O’Connor, Michael V. Pantalon, Marek C. Chawarski, Susan H. Busch, Patricia H. Owens, Steven L. Bernstein, and David A. Fiellin (JAMA, 2015).
  • “Buprenorphine-Naloxone Therapy In Pain Management,” by Lucy Chen, Kelly Yan Chen, and Jianren Mao (National Institutes of Health, 2014).
  • “Prevalence and Correlates of Street-Obtained Buprenorphine Use Among Current and Former Injectors In Baltimore, Maryland,” by Jacquie Astemborski, Becky L. Genberg, Mirinda Gillespie, Chris-Ellyn Johanson, Gregory D. Kirk, Shruti H. Mehta, Charles R. Schuster, and David Vlahov (U.S. National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health, 2014).
  • “The Promotion and Marketing of OxyContin: Commercial Triumph, Public Health Tragedy,” by Art Van Zee (U.S. National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health, 2009).

• EXTRAS:
  • "Why Is the Opioid Epidemic Still Raging?" series by Freakonomics Radio (2024).
  • "The Opioid Tragedy, Part 1: 'We’ve Addicted an Entire Generation,'" by Freakonomics Radio (2020).
  • “The Truth About the Vaping Crisis,” by Freakonomics Radio (2019).

Thanks to legal settlements with drug makers and distributors, states have plenty of money to boost prevention and treatment. Will it work? (Part two of a two-part series.)

• SOURCES:
  • Keith Humphreys, professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at Stanford University.
  • Stephen Loyd, chief medical officer of Cedar Recovery and chair of the Tennessee Opioid Abatement Council.
  • Christine Minhee, founder of OpioidSettlementTracker.com.

• RESOURCES:
  • "Court Conflicted Over Purdue Pharma Bankruptcy Plan That Shields Sacklers From Liability," by Amy Howe (SCOTUSblog, 2023).
  • NationalOpioidSettlement.com.
  • OpioidSettlementTracker.com.
  • The Helios Alliance.

• EXTRAS:
  • "The Opioid Tragedy, Part 2: 'It’s Not a Death Sentence,'" by Freakonomics Radio (2020).

Most epidemics flare up, do their damage, and fade away. This one has been raging for almost 30 years. To find out why, it’s time to ask some uncomfortable questions. (Part one of a two-part series.)

• SOURCES:
  • David Cutler, professor of economics at Harvard University.
  • Travis Donahoe, professor of health policy and management at the University of Pittsburgh.
  • Keith Humphreys, professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at Stanford University.
  • Stephen Loyd, chief medical officer of Cedar Recovery and chair of the Tennessee Opioid Abatement Council.

• RESOURCES:
  • "Thick Market Externalities and the Persistence of the Opioid Epidemic," by David Cutler and J. Travis Donahoe (NBER Working Paper, 2024).
  • "Responding to the Opioid Crisis in North America and Beyond: Recommendations of the Stanford-Lancet Commission," by Keith Humphreys, Chelsea L. Shover, Christine Timko, et al. (The Lancet, 2022).
  • "When Innovation Goes Wrong: Technological Regress and the Opioid Epidemic," by David Cutler and Edward Glaeser (Journal of Economic Perspectives, 2021).

• EXTRAS:
  • "Nuclear Power Isn’t Perfect. Is It Good Enough?" by Freakonomics Radio (2022).
  • "The Opioid Tragedy, Part 2: 'It’s Not a Death Sentence,'" by Freakonomics Radio (2020).
  • "The Opioid Tragedy, Part 1: 'We’ve Addicted an Entire Generation,'" by Freakonomics Radio (2020).

Presenting two stories from The Economics of Everyday Things: Why does it seem like every car is black, white, or gray these days? And: How self-storage took over America.

• SOURCES:
  • Tom Crockett, classic car enthusiast.
  • Zachary Dickens, executive vice president and chief investment officer of Extra Space Storage.
  • Mark Gutjahr, global head of design at BASF.
  • Kara Kolodziej, self-storage unit tenant.
  • Anne Mari DeCoster, self-storage consultant.
  • Nikkie Riedel, carline planning manager at Subaru of America.

• RESOURCES:
  • “A Fifth Of Americans Rent Self Storage, With Millennials Overtaking Gen Xers In Generational Storage Wars,” by Francis Chantree (Storage Cafe, 2024).
  • “Lessors of Mini Warehouses and Self-Storage Units Show Significant Financial Gains During COVID-19 Pandemic,” by Ben Chandler and Robin Enlow (United States Census Bureau, 2024).
  • BASF Color Report 2023 for Automotive OEM Coatings, (2023).
  • “The Fate of Oversupplied Self-Storage Markets and How to Pull Back From the Brink,” by Frank DeSalvo and David Perlleshi (Inside Self Storage, 2023).
  • “A Pandemic Space Race: Self-Storage Roars Back,” by Ellen Rosen (The New York Times, 2021).
  • “Beige on an S.U.V. Will Cost You, but for Pickups It’s Golden,” by Roy Furchgott (The New York Times, 2021).
  • “A Brief History Of Car Colors — And Why Are We So Boring Now?” (Consumer Reports, 2018).
  • “The Link Between the Colour of Cars and the Economy,” (The Economist, 2018).
  • “Need to Store That? Booming Self-Storage Industry Says No Problem,” by Liam Pleven (The Wall Street Journal, 2015).

• EXTRAS:
  • “Car Washes,” by The Economics of Everyday Things (2023).
  • Storage Wars, TV series (2010-present).
  • Auction Hunters, TV series (2010-2015).

We wrap up our two-parter about how AI technologies might impact fire and life safety by talking with Xinyan Huang, a fire protection engineer, professor, and AI researcher at the Research Centre for Fire Safety Engineering at Hong Kong Polytechnic University. He tells us about a few of the AI tools he and his colleagues are developing and how they may one day help with everything from designing safer buildings to guiding firefighter robots (2:54). 

And then, on a new Code Corner, engineer Shawn Mahoney talks fire alarm design, and explains the differences between the alarm, trouble, and supervisory signals in a fire alarm system (56:15).

LINKS: 
Read the cover story "Our AI Future" in the new issue of NFPA Journal

The fire safety industry doesn’t offer second chances, so using the best ingredients in fire retardants is essential. In this episode, Perimeter Solutions Director of Research and Development Melissa Kim talks about why phosphates have been the active ingredient in their fire retardants since 1963. 

This episode is a discussion about Fire Hydrants! Solocast 43 details codes, standards, and other criteria surrounding fire hydrants. Also we discuss hydrant components and the different types of fire hydrants that are common. 

Transcription: Speaker Gus

[00:00:00] Hello. Welcome to the solo cast of fire code tech in these episodes. It's just gonna be me, your host, Gus Gagliardi. There's gonna be a range of topics, but I'm gonna talk about specific technologies, installation, standards, codes, and how they work as well as some other interesting topics that don't neatly fit inside of the context of a normal I.

Hello. All welcome to episode 43 of fire code tech. In this episode, we're talking about fire hydrants. Yes. I believe fire hydrants is a great topic for a solo cast because like many things that reside in the intersection in between two engineering disciplines, oftentimes they are forgotten or poorly designed.

So I'm talking about the fact that fire hydrants, although they are usually designed. [00:01:00] Located on the civil drawings have impact to fire protection features for the fire and life safety systems. So in these little nooks and crannies between disciplines, oftentimes we can find that projects either forget or, or neglect to give proper attention to these pieces of.

So, if you're still wondering, if you wanna listen to this episode, we're going to talk about codes, standards, and other criteria pertaining to fire hydrants. We're going to discuss the system architecture and component pieces of fire hydrants and the piping networks that they are attached to. And also we're gonna get into some key definitions for what a fire hydrant is and the different types of fire hydrant.

I wanted to take a moment and talk about the codes and standards up at the front of this episode. The goal of this episode is not to discuss the codes [00:02:00] and standards. I really wanted to just discuss some entry level topics. To establish what a fire hydrant is and some other parts and, and pieces of this piece of fire and life safety equipment.

But as a forward for the people who may have been listening to hear about more criteria or codes and standards around this subject, I'll start off with the codes of standards surrounding fire hydrants. If you're working in the us and you're using the international family of codes, you can look in the international fire code for additional code excerpts for the requirements for fire hydrants.

The section specifically in the international fire code 2021 edition is 5 0 7 0.5 0.5. This section is titled fire hydrant systems, and it is not very long. If you want to go brush up on these codes before you design a project, it'd probably be a pretty good idea. As the codes are always [00:03:00] a magnificent place to start to make sure that you are at the very minimum, getting the code required features that are in place in your project.

Second, let's talk about in the standards portion of the codes and standards discussion, where would you go to find out more criteria about fire hydrants? One place you could look would be N FPA 24, which is titled as standard for the installation of private fire mains and app. The chapter in specific where you can find information about fire hydrants is chapter seven.

Moving forward to the inspection, testing and maintenance criteria for fire hydrants. If you want to find this sort of information, go ahead and go look in N FPA 25, strangely enough. It, this is also in chapter seven, but the name of the chapter is not fire hydrants. Like it is in, in FPA 24. It is private fire service mains.

[00:04:00] okay. Just for a quick recap, we talked about the code section in the international fire code. We talked about the installation standard, which is N FPA 24. And then we talked about where you could find the ins the inspection testing and maintenance criteria, which is an FPA 25 as an additional point about criteria.

There is an appendix and fire code, which is appendix C. And this appendix is named fire hydrant, locations and distribution. Just a note on appendix material. You may know, but just worth saying in this discussion that appendix material is not always adopted. So you have to check your specific jurisdictional criteria to see if this appendix material is adopted and pertinent to the project that you're working on.

But it's good to know about the criteria into this appendix for best engineering practices. [00:05:00] Okay, moving on. I wanna talk about the definitions portion of this solo cast. So what is a fire hydrant? Maybe I should have put that first, but I'm gonna leave it here. Anyways. What is a fire hydrant? Let's talk about the definitions, which can be found in N F P a 24.

Hydrant can be found in the NFPA 24 chapter three. And it is defined as an exterior valved connection to a water supply system that provides host connections. So my 2 cents about this is that hydrants come in different colors, and sometimes they can be indication of different factors for the hydrant or for the facility, whether it be private or public.

Some of these factors may include how much water supply is available from the hydrant the water supply source in which the hydrant is fed from. And also it can just be a coloring or designation system for the facilities or base criteria. So there are two big, main types of hydrants. [00:06:00] One is a wet barrel, and one is a dry barrel.

I'm gonna talk about the definitions for both of these. Let's start off with dry barrel. Dry barrel hydrant is described in 3.4 0.1 0.1. And it states a type of hydrant with the main control valve below the frost line between the foot piece and the barrel dry barrel is the more common of the two hydrant types.

This is gonna be found anywhere in which you would normally have freezing conditions throughout the year. So in the majority of the us, this is what you're gonna find is dry barrel hydrants. Well, I bet you can guess what the next definition I'm gonna cover is that's right. It's wet barrel. And so this definition is 3.4 0.1 0.6, and it is stated as a type of hydrant that is intended for use where there is no danger of freezing weather and where [00:07:00] each outlet is protected with a valve and an outlet.

My piece of information on this we barrel definition would be that these. Hydrants are only common in very select pieces of the us think California and Florida in. ranges where the weather and or climate is exceedingly temperate or tropical almost. And so outside of the us, think of the Caribbean or other geographies that are near the equator, moving on, let's talk about the different component pieces of a typical fire hyd.

So we're gonna start off talking about the actual hydrant and then we will also discuss the piping and involving that leads up to the hydrant. So for a brief overview, before we dive into those different pieces, the summary of the pieces are the hydrant body. The stem nut or the operating portion of the [00:08:00] hydrant, the bonnet, the side outlet, the pumper outlet and the base flange.

Let's go from the top of the hydrant down to the base flange into the first piece we're gonna talk about is the operating stem and. This piece is on the top of the hydrant and it is how you open and close the fire hydrant. You can use a hydrant wrench to do this operat. Next piece we're gonna talk about is the bonnet of the fire hydrant.

Think of this as the round domed piece at the top of the fire hydrant, of course, there are some types of fire hydrants that will have different configuration that are not domed, but the top component of the fire hydrant, sometimes the hyd. Cap or bonnet can be a different color than the body of the fire hydrant.

So it's good to note these details. If you are doing a survey of fire [00:09:00] hydrant, or you are doing a flow test and you want to provide documentation of the hydrant in which you are activating, first outlet we are gonna talk about is the side. So there is the pumper outlet and the side outlet. The side outlet is one of the two outlets that are usually two and a half inches, two and a half inches is the standard hose size connection.

Another standard hose size connection is an inch and a half. The other connection is the pumper outlet. This outlet is usually four inches and you can hook the larger lines up to this outlet. I guess that makes sense. Since it's four over two and a half and one and a half, but you can get a much larger volume of water out of the pumper outlet, the flan or the base flan for the hydrant connects the hydrant to [00:10:00] the piping.

That extends all the way down to the elbow at the bottom of the hydrant stem only other component we didn't talk about for the hydrant in the actual, within the hydrant is the stem and the stem is what raises and lowers the plunger light device to allow the water into a dry hydrant. That is what operates when you are turning the stem and nut at the top of the top of the hyd.

Let's talk about the components that lead up to the hydrant and some of the piping and valving for a brief recap, we talked about the stem and nut, the bonnet, the side outlet, the pumper outlet and the base flan, as well as the stem within the hydrant. And now moving forward, we're going to talk about [00:11:00] the.

Gravel and drain basin, the thrust block, the control valve, and what the terms, lateral or branch line and service main or main or fire main mean in the context of a fire hydrant. First up is gravel and drain basin. This is the area in which the dry barrel hydrogen drains into the ground. Interesting note, you can put your hand up to the side of the side outlet.

If you have all the other outlets with their cap on them and feel the suction from the hydrant drain. If you've done a flow test and you are waiting for the hydrant to drain or verifying that the hydrant will drain. That's a good trick to know thrust block is a restraint or a restriction of the hydrant, and there is a calculation for how to [00:12:00] determine the size of the thrust block.

So that is something to consider. There are specific construction details for how these have to be built as well, the compaction and the aggregate and the concrete around the thrust block so that the pipe is restrained and supported correctly. Control valve. The control valve is required for the fire hydrant for you to be able to isolate the fire hydrant maintenance on the fire hydrant, or if somebody hits a fire hydrant with their vehicle.

So you can turn off the fire H lateral or branch line for a fire hydrant. This is the military refers to it as. Lateral line or a lateral service. So service lateral, think of this as the specific piping that serves the hydrant, not the main [00:13:00] that serves multiple hydrants. next is service main, main, or fire main, which this is the component that like the think of a sprinkler main, how it serves the multiple branch lines.

This is the same type of interaction in the piping system. I think that's gonna do it for this episode of fire code tech. Hope you enjoyed the solo cast. As an overview of the episode, we talked about hi, a highlight of codes, standards, and other criteria. We talked about some key definitions for fire hydrants last but not least.

We spoke of the parts and pieces of a fire Hy. Hope you enjoyed the episode and we'll see you next time. Thanks for listening everybody. Be sure to share the episode with a friend, if you enjoyed it, don't forget that fire protection and life safety is serious business. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast [00:14:00] are by no means a professional consultation or a codes end standards interpretation.

Be sure to contact a licensed professional. If you are getting involved with fire protection and or life. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.

Jeff Moore is a FPE with 40+ years of experience in fire and life safety. Historic fires, fire safety publications, and career lessons learned are all discussed on this interview episode.

Industrial Fire Contro Concepts: 

https://www.amazon.com/Industrial-Fire-Control-Concepts-Protection-dp-1737962209/dp/1737962209/ref=mt_other?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=

51 Conversations with the Wise Old Fire Protection Engineer: 

https://www.amazon.com/Conversations-Wise-Fire-Protection-Engineer/dp/1737962292/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1T0VUHI7YWOI4&keywords=wise+old+fire+protection&qid=1665358522&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIwLjk3IiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&s=books&sprefix=wise+old+fire+protection%2Cstripbooks%2C100&sr=1-1

Firemark Consulting: 

http://firemarkconsulting.com/

The fire safety industry doesn’t offer second chances, so using the best ingredients in fire retardants is essential. In this episode, Perimeter Solutions Director of Research and Development Melissa Kim talks about why phosphates have been the active ingredient in their fire retardants since 1963.