Podcast Summary
Emphasizing Long-Term Thinking and Responsibility with Stuart Brand: Renowned thinker Stuart Brand, president of the Long Now Foundation, emphasizes the importance of long-term thinking and responsibility for the next 10,000 years. He shares insights on technology, sustainability, and culture with Tim Ferriss, who highly regards him as a mentor.
Stuart Brand, a renowned thinker and innovator, emphasizes the importance of long-term thinking and responsibility. He is the president of the Long Now Foundation, which aims to foster long-term thinking and responsibility for the next 10,000 years. Brand, who has been present at numerous historical moments, shares his insights on various topics, including technology, sustainability, and culture. Tim Ferriss, who interviewed Brand, highly regards him as a mentor and a world-class performer. Ferriss also promotes Athletic Greens, a comprehensive nutritional supplement, to ensure daily intake of essential vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients. Additionally, Ferriss encourages listeners to subscribe to his Five Bullet Friday email newsletter for weekly recommendations on books, documentaries, apps, and other interesting finds.
A catalog that inspired generations: The Whole Earth Catalog, founded by Stuart Brand, provided practical information and revolutionary ideas, inspiring individuals to take control of their lives and challenge the status quo.
The Whole Earth Catalog, founded by Stuart Brand, had a profound impact on many people's lives, particularly during their formative years. The catalog, which covered a wide range of topics from geodesic domes to women's health, captured the imagination of people due to its unique blend of practical information and revolutionary ideas. Brand's influence extended beyond the catalog, as he also co-founded The Well and Global Business Network, and authored several books. His expertise spanned various fields, from biology to design, making for fascinating conversations. Brand's work challenged the status quo and empowered individuals to take control of their lives, leaving a lasting impact on generations.
Embrace randomness for greater opportunities: Staying open-minded and trying new things can lead to discovering higher peaks of opportunities
Staying open-minded and embracing randomness can lead to greater opportunities and innovation, as exemplified by Steve Jobs' connection to the "Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish" philosophy from The Whole Earth Catalog. This idea is based on the concept of fitness landscapes in biology, where staying focused on one local optimum may prevent discovering higher peaks of greater opportunity. Embracing randomness and trying new things can help in getting off the current hill and discovering new and potentially better paths. Steve Jobs, with his immense power and wealth, used this philosophy to keep revolutionizing his business and thinking, encouraging the Stanford students to do the same.
A life full of diverse experiences and a low threshold for boredom: Tim's life is marked by a lack of a clear career path or financial success, but a high level of excitement and curiosity, leading him to jump into new interests and take risks.
The speaker, Tim, has lived a life full of diverse experiences, often jumping into new interests without a clear plan or ambition, and instead, being driven by excitement and curiosity. He's shared stories of his involvement in various sports like hang gliding and snowboarding, which he picked up as soon as they became popular, but eventually grew bored with. Tim also mentioned that having one good idea and sticking to it is a common trait for those who make a lot of money, but he has often found himself moving on to the next thing that catches his interest. He's currently dealing with a biographer who's raising similar questions about the lack of a clear narrative arc in his life. Tim also shared a story from his past about his experience with skydiving, where his parachute failed to open, which added an element of danger and unpredictability to his life. Overall, Tim's life seems to be characterized by a low threshold for boredom and a willingness to take risks, even if they don't always lead to a clear career path or financial success.
The importance of effective training and clear instruction: Effective training and clear instruction can save lives and improve performance, even in high-pressure situations. Positive reinforcement and constructive criticism are essential for effective leadership and management. The power of knowledge, as demonstrated by the Whole Earth Catalog, can have a profound impact.
Effective training and clear instruction, even in high-pressure situations, can make all the difference. The speaker shared his experience of parachute training in the Army, where he was taught what to do in case of a malfunction. When this situation arose, he was able to act quickly and save himself, despite the alarming circumstances. Additionally, the speaker emphasized the importance of positive reinforcement and constructive criticism, which he learned during his military training. This approach, he noted, was crucial for effective leadership and management. Another takeaway was the impact of the Whole Earth Catalog, which the speaker described as a comprehensive guide to various subjects. Although the catalog's creation was demanding, its influence was profound. When it was discontinued, the speaker experienced a severe depression. Overall, these experiences underscored the value of thorough preparation, positive feedback, and the power of knowledge.
Identifying and addressing fears for better mental health: Recognizing specific fears and working through solutions can help manage depression and improve mental health. Medication and psychedelic research may also provide relief for some individuals.
Recognizing and addressing our fears can help us better cope with difficult situations, including depression. The speaker discussed his experience with severe depression during college, which he attributed to a combination of personal and professional stressors. He found the fear-naming approach, as outlined in a Ted talk by Tim Ferriss, to be particularly helpful in managing his fears and preventing them from overwhelming him. This technique involves identifying specific fears and working through potential solutions, rather than letting fear control our actions. The speaker also shared his experience with depression having a seasonal component and how medication, specifically Zoloft, has been effective in managing his symptoms. Additionally, the speaker mentioned his past involvement in psychedelic research and how it has seen a resurgence in recent years for therapeutic purposes. Overall, the discussion emphasizes the importance of acknowledging and addressing our fears to improve mental health and well-being.
Exploring the Limits of Mysticism through Psychedelics: The speaker's use of psychedelic substances led him to recognize the limitations of mysticism and question its depth, encouraging a balance between good and bad experiences and promoting awareness of the earth's finite resources.
The speaker, during the 1960s, had numerous experiences with various psychedelic substances, including LSD, peyote, and nitrous oxide. While some people believed that more drugs could solve bad trips, the speaker sought a balance between the good and bad experiences. The speaker's use of psychedelics led him to recognize the limitations of mysticism and question its depth. He became more suspicious of mysticism after feeling that he had taken a shortcut into that world. The speaker also distributed "blue marble" buttons, which represented the earth's appearance from space, to encourage people to consider the earth's finite resources. The speaker's experiences and associations during this time led him to be involved in defining cultural moments, such as Ken Kesey's "acid tests." Overall, the speaker's psychedelic experiences shaped his perspective on the world and its limitations.
The importance of seeing Earth from space: A campaign in the late 1960s raised awareness about the significance of viewing Earth as a sphere from space, leading to a shift in focus from nuclear war to the fragility and interconnectedness of the planet.
The perspective of seeing the Earth as a sphere from space was a revolutionary idea in the late 1960s, despite humans having been in space for over a decade. Stewart Brand, inspired by his psychedelic experiences and influences from thinkers like Buckminster Fuller and Marshall McLuhan, launched a campaign to raise awareness about the importance of seeing the Earth from a distant perspective. He believed that this image would change the way people thought about the planet's fate, shifting the focus from nuclear war to the fragility and interconnectedness of the Earth. Despite the availability of satellite imagery, no photograph of the whole Earth existed, fueling Brand's paranoia that it was being hidden from the public. He printed buttons and posters asking "Why haven't we seen a photograph of the whole Earth yet?" and spread the message through universities and media outlets. The first clear photographs of the Earth from space eventually arrived, and they indeed reframed the way people thought about the planet's future. This campaign marked a turning point in the way technology and engineering were viewed as intellectual pursuits, and it paved the way for a new perspective on our place in the universe.
Tools and Techniques Can Change Civilization: Throughout history, tools and techniques have significantly impacted civilization by enhancing individual and social intelligence. The Long Now Foundation encourages long-term thinking to address complex issues and opportunities.
While it may be challenging to change human nature, we can effectively change tools and techniques, which in turn can significantly impact civilization. This idea, attributed to R. Buckminster Fuller, has been evident throughout history, particularly during the 70s when the new left was advocating for power to the people, and Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak were providing the tools for it to happen. The ongoing debate between artificial intelligence and intelligence augmentation is a prime example of this concept in action. Tools, including technology and communication devices, have the power to enhance individual and social intelligence, making it more effective and efficient. However, social intelligence itself is a complex and powerful force that is not easily changed. Instead, we can focus on augmenting it through tools and techniques. The Long Now Foundation is an organization that encourages long-term thinking, recognizing that many of the most significant issues and opportunities in the world are slow-moving and require a long-term perspective. For those interested in exploring this concept further, the Long Now Foundation has curated a series of talks on long-term thinking, available in an affordable book, which includes insights from various thought leaders on topics ranging from climate change to meta learning.
Reconnecting with Deeper Ideas: Exploring ideas about time, innovation, and reality through Long Now Foundation talks, poetry, autobiographical fiction, and long-term engagement with institutions and emotions.
The speaker is expressing a desire to reconnect with deeper ideas and understandings, moving beyond the daily distractions and melodrama. They mention several Long Now Foundation talks that have resonated with them, including those by Jared Diamond, Jim Glick, Kevin Kelly, Jesse Owens, and Jeffrey West. The speaker is particularly drawn to ideas about time, innovation, and reality, and has found themselves drawn to poetry and autobiographical fiction as sources of insight. They mention a book by Milan Kundera, "The Book of Laughter and Forgetting," as a recent example. The speaker is also reflecting on the importance of emotions and intuition, and the value of long-term engagement with institutions and ideas.
Engaging in long-term projects for continuity and meaning: Long-term projects or institutions offer comfort and a sense of purpose, helping individuals cope with mortality through family, religion, or dedication to long-term causes or species revival. Examples include The Long Now Foundation and Revive and Restore.
Engaging with long-term projects or institutions can provide comfort and a sense of continuity, helping individuals cope with the reality of their own mortality. This can manifest in various ways, such as through family, religion, or dedication to a long-term cause or species revival. The Long Now Foundation and revive and restore are examples of organizations that promote long-term thinking and action. The former encourages long-term thinking through projects like building a 10,000-year clock, while the latter focuses on genetic rescue to bring back extinct species like the woolly mammoth. By dedicating themselves to these long-term goals, individuals can find meaning and purpose beyond their own lifetimes.
Reintroducing Extinct Species: Balancing Uncertainties and Benefits: Reintroducing extinct species like the woolly mammoth can bring ecological benefits and biodiversity, despite uncertainties and risks. Comparing it to complex systems, small interventions can lead to valuable insights and improvements.
While the reintroduction of extinct species like the woolly mammoth comes with uncertainties and potential risks, the benefits, particularly in terms of ecological richness and biodiversity, can outweigh the challenges. Comparing it to complex systems like the human body and ecosystems, small interventions or tweaks can lead to valuable insights and improvements. The fascination with the woolly mammoth, as well as elephants, stems from both their ecological impact and personal interest. The Arctic and sub-arctic regions could provide suitable habitats for these large animals, contributing to the concept of bioabundance, which goes beyond just focusing on biodiversity. The return of species like the American chestnut, which was once abundant but is now ecologically extinct, can bring back not only biodiversity but also food sources for various organisms, including humans. Ultimately, the process of reintroducing extinct species involves careful observation, learning from failures, and building on successes.
Embracing pragmatism for environmental solutions: The environmental movement should adapt to the realities of the world and embrace pragmatic solutions, such as using technology and science to address challenges and adapting to the importance of cities and the potential of geoengineering.
Pragmatism, an approach that focuses on finding practical solutions without being bound by ideology, is crucial for addressing environmental issues. According to Stuart Brand, the environmental movement has been hindered by ideological stances against technology, corporations, and business, which have outlived their usefulness. He advocates for embracing pragmatism and adapting to the realities of the world, such as the importance of cities and the potential of geoengineering as tools for reducing emissions and mitigating climate change. Brand's own work, including his book "Whole Earth Discipline," demonstrates this approach by challenging common environmentalist beliefs and advocating for the use of technology and science to address environmental challenges. Overall, Brand's message is that the environmental movement needs to evolve and adapt to the realities of the world, and that pragmatism is the key to making meaningful progress.
Lessons from Kevin's Decades of Public Presence: Kevin's long-term success is rooted in his resilience, adaptability, and avoiding controversial associations. He learned from his failure to finish Ranger training and applies it to his life, never quitting anything rashly. His successes in public have been celebrated, while his failures have remained private, preserving his positive image.
The speaker, Kevin, has built a reputation over decades of public presence, interacting with a large number of people, and avoiding controversial associations. His failure to finish Ranger training in the Army taught him not to quit anything for a snap decision reason. Regarding CrossFit, he finds appeal in the variety and doesn't have specific favorite exercises or workouts. Kevin's successes have been public, while his failures have been private, contributing to his positive public image. He doesn't seem to have known enemies or significant opposition, likely due to his lack of power or wealth and his successes not being associated with controversial matters.
The power of CrossFit's unique fitness program: CrossFit's combination of varied workouts, social interaction, and functional training creates an engaging and effective fitness experience, leading to weight loss and increased strength.
CrossFit's unique combination of constantly varied workouts, social interaction, and functional free weight training creates a highly engaging and effective fitness program. The speaker's personal experience of losing weight and feeling proud of his strength attests to its impact. Additionally, the speaker's connection to the origins of CrossFit through being present for the "mother of all demos" featuring Doug Engelbart's groundbreaking computer interface innovations highlights the transformative potential of good execution of a seemingly ordinary idea.
Doug Engelbart's groundbreaking 1968 'Mother of All Demos': Engelbart's pioneering tech demo introduced text editing, file management, and the mouse, leading to the personal computer industry, despite technical challenges.
The groundbreaking 1968 "Mother of All Demos" by Doug Engelbart showcased the early development of computer technology, including text editing, file management, and the mouse and keyboard. Engelbart's presentation, which included live communication with collaborator Bill English, was a technical feat that left the audience in awe, leading to a standing ovation. However, it hung on the edge of failure throughout, with occasional loss of signal. The event marked a turning point in tech history and led to the formation of the personal computer industry. It's important to remember that while CrossFit has numerous benefits, there's a risk of intolerance towards other fitness methods. Regarding the phrase "Information wants to be free," it was popularized by Stewart Brand during the 1984 Hackers Conference and has since sparked debates on the ethics of paywalls for scientific journals. The argument for free access to information is that it benefits science and knowledge dissemination, but organizations like Elsevier profit greatly from paywalls.
The paradoxical relationship between the value and accessibility of information: Information has inherent value, but also desires to be free. Balancing access and compensation for creators is crucial.
Information, whether it's digital or physical, has inherent value and desires both to be free and expensive. Steve Wozniak and the speaker had a debate about the role of copy protection in software, with Wozniak arguing that creators deserve compensation for their work. The speaker responded with the idea that "information wants to be free," but also acknowledged the importance of commercial models. This paradoxical relationship is seen in various aspects of life, such as the debate over hackers being good or bad, and the accessibility of information through paywalls. The speaker believes that giving people a taste of valuable information for free can lead to greater engagement and ultimately benefit the provider. Additionally, the speaker shared that they have organizational principles to keep their life in order and mentioned their rule on Twitter to only share freely accessible information. The debate over the value and accessibility of information is a permanent one, and finding a balance between the two is crucial.
Managing Time and Resources in Long-Term Projects: Consider the limitations of time and resources when committing to long-term projects. Prioritize based on personal interests and feasibility. Some subjects may lose urgency or impact over time.
Having a wealth of resources, whether it's physical possessions or knowledge, can provide valuable material for future projects and stories, but it's essential to consider the limitations of time and resources in making long-term commitments. The speaker, who has an extensive collection of papers and notebooks, believes that these materials will help create a more accurate and less interesting story of his life, but he acknowledges that not everyone is qualified or has the time to take on such projects. He suggests that teaching a class on Western civilization or big history would be an excellent opportunity for someone to conduct thorough research and create a cohesive narrative. However, as one ages, it becomes crucial to manage time effectively and prioritize projects based on personal interests and feasibility. The speaker also mentions that some subjects, like climate change, may lose interest as the urgency or ability to make a significant impact decreases. Ultimately, life management involves making the most of the time and resources available while acknowledging the limitations and making informed decisions about commitments.
The importance of being selective in commitments: Finite vs Infinite Games: Consider the distinction between finite and infinite games when making commitments. Finite games have clear rules and end goals, while infinite games are more fluid. Be selective and adaptable in your commitments to maximize success and engagement.
As our careers progress, we need to become more selective about the opportunities we commit to, shifting from a "yes" to a "no" mentality. This is because taking on too many opportunities at once can be detrimental. Instead, we should consider the criteria for saying yes and make that decision thoughtfully. A book that has influenced this way of thinking is "Finite and Infinite Games" by James P. Carse. The book introduces the distinction between finite and infinite games, with finite games having specific rules and a clear end goal, while infinite games are more fluid and open-ended. This concept resonated with the speaker, who has a background in games and noticed how children naturally change the rules of their games. The New Games Tournament he organized in the 70s was an example of providing a public space for people to interact and freely shape games. The immersive property of these games was intriguing, and the idea of changing the rules to make things more collaborative and engaging has stayed with him. Overall, "Finite and Infinite Games" has influenced the speaker's thinking on the importance of being selective and adaptable in our commitments.
Using games for non-violent resistance: Games and gamification can provide intense engagement and foster cooperation, offering non-violent alternatives for those seeking combat experiences.
The use of games and gamification in various contexts, including social and political movements, can provide intense physical and mental engagement, fostering a sense of competition and cooperation without causing harm. This was exemplified by the creation of a semi-violent game called "Slaughter," which was designed for war resistors during the Vietnam War era. The game, which involved physical interaction and teamwork, provided an outlet for those seeking combat experiences in a non-violent way. The concept of finite and infinite games, as discussed in books like "Finite and Infinite Games" by James P. Carse and "Homo Ludens" by Johan Huizinga, highlights the importance of both rules-bound and open-ended games in civilization, with the latter encouraging continuous improvement and innovation.
Exploring boundaries in games and projects leads to growth: Exploring rules and expanding skills in projects can lead to personal growth and new opportunities, contrasting traditional goal-focused career theories.
Constantly pushing boundaries within games and projects, whether through breaking rules or expanding skills, leads to personal growth and new opportunities. Carson, in this context, emphasizes the importance of both following rules and challenging them within a game or project. This contrasts with traditional goal-focused career theories, where individuals are encouraged to follow a clear path to a specific goal. However, not everyone has a clear idea of what they want to do, and acquiring various skills can open up unexpected opportunities. The story of the speaker's own journey from Stanford to starting the Whole Earth Catalog demonstrates the value of acquiring diverse skills and being open to new opportunities. In essence, focusing on pathways rather than singular goals can lead to a more fulfilling and adaptable career.
Acknowledging mistakes and changing perspective: Being open-minded and willing to change your perspective, even in public, can lead to growth and learning. Effective communication involves listening to others, acknowledging mistakes, and responding thoughtfully.
Being open-minded and willing to change your perspective, even in public, is a valuable trait. The speaker, who was trained as a scientist, emphasized the importance of acknowledging when you're wrong and moving on. While this isn't a standard mode of public discourse, it can lead to growth and learning. The speaker also shared an example of Governor Jerry Brown, who effectively engaged with protesters by actively listening to their concerns and responding thoughtfully. This approach not only demonstrated understanding but also helped to de-escalate potential conflicts. Overall, the ability to adapt and evolve one's views is a valuable skill, particularly in a world where new information and perspectives are constantly emerging.
Embrace change and be open-minded: Studying influential figures and being open to new perspectives can lead to success and personal growth.
Being open-minded and willing to change one's perspective, even if it means going against the norm, can lead to success in politics and other areas of life. Jerry Brown's introverted personality and ability to change his mind made him a successful politician. For those considering entering politics or looking to think more scientifically, studying the lives and works of influential figures like Theodore Roosevelt, Edward O. Wilson, and Richard Feynman can provide valuable insights and inspiration. Additionally, engaging with their writings and documentaries can help individuals develop critical thinking skills and a willingness to question authority. Finally, as one enters a new decade, it's important to reassess personal goals and trajectories, but remember that there is still plenty of time to learn and grow.
Embrace the Unexpected: Focus on both positive and negative unintended consequences, learn from them, and recognize their importance in all aspects of life.
As we age, time may seem to compress as we gain experience and accumulate skills, but unintended consequences are an inevitable part of any new endeavor or technology. Stuart Brand, in his conversation, encourages embracing the unexpected rather than fearing it. He suggests focusing on both the positive and negative unintended consequences and learning from them. Brand also emphasizes the importance of recognizing and measuring unintended consequences in all aspects of life. You can find Stuart Brand on Twitter @StuartBrand, and explore his work at the Long Now Foundation (longnow.org), the Interval (theinterval.org), and Revive & Restore (reviverestore.org).
Long-term thinking and preserving the natural world: Stuart Brand emphasized the importance of long-term thinking and saving species and ecosystems genetically through the Long Now Foundation. Tim Ferriss encouraged staying curious and sharing knowledge through his weekly digest, 'Five Bullet Friday'.
Stuart Brand, the founder of the Long Now Foundation, has transitioned the project into an independent 501c3 organization, focusing on saving various species and ecosystems genetically. Brand emphasized the importance of long-term thinking and the role of the organization in preserving and enhancing the natural world for future generations. Additionally, Tim Ferriss mentioned the importance of staying curious and sharing knowledge. He encouraged listeners to check out his "Five Bullet Friday" emails, a short weekly digest of interesting finds and ponderings. For those interested, links to the Long Now Foundation and the sign-up for "Five Bullet Friday" can be found in the show notes at Tim.blog/podcast. Overall, the conversation highlighted the importance of long-term thinking, preserving the natural world, and staying curious.