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    318 | TRUE Camping, Deep Woods and Cave HORROR Stories

    enJuly 02, 2021

    Podcast Summary

    • Unexpected discoveries and resourcefulnessUnexpected challenges can lead to new discoveries and a deeper appreciation for resourcefulness in both personal and business contexts

      Sometimes, the most exciting discoveries can be found in unexpected places, even if they come with unexpected challenges. In the story shared, a young man named Skip McGrip discovers a hidden cave on the far side of a mountain during a visit to his Mexican village. Despite initial hesitation and discomfort, he follows his friend into the cave to find farmers collecting bat guano for use as fertilizer. This experience, though initially unpleasant, leads to a new understanding and appreciation for the resourcefulness of the community. Similarly, in business, entrepreneurs may encounter unexpected challenges while growing their online shops with Shopify, but with determination and the right resources, they can overcome these challenges and achieve great success.

    • Friends and Fear in Unfamiliar PlacesClear communication and mutual understanding are crucial when exploring with friends. Fear and unfamiliarity can lead to unexpected separations.

      Exploring unfamiliar and potentially dangerous environments with friends can lead to unexpected challenges and separations. The speaker's friend convinced him to explore a cave, but when the speaker became hesitant due to fear and the darkness, his friend continued deeper into the cave without him. The speaker was left behind, unsure of what had happened to his friend, until they eventually reunited outside the cave. This experience highlights the importance of clear communication and mutual understanding when embarking on adventures together. Additionally, the cave exploration revealed signs of others who had used the cave for resource gathering, adding an intriguing layer to the exploration.

    • Childhood experiences shape who we becomeChildhood experiences, whether positive or negative, significantly impact our personal growth and development.

      The experiences we have, especially during our formative years, can significantly shape who we become. The story of my coworker, Eliza, and her encounter in the Blue Hole, serves as a reminder of this. The adventure in the cave with her friend as a child left a lasting impact on him, ultimately leading to a mysterious transformation. Similarly, the dangerous activities they engaged in were formative, shaping their personalities and bond. In the Blue Hole, Eliza and her husband faced the unknown, experiencing the beauty and danger of the deep sea. These experiences, both positive and negative, contribute to our personal growth and development.

    • Exploring New Environments Alone: A Recipe for DisasterAlways prioritize safety when exploring new environments alone, as dangerous situations can quickly escalate without proper preparation or companionship.

      Exploring unfamiliar environments alone, especially in dangerous situations, can lead to disastrous consequences. In the first story, a deep sea diver named Eliza made this mistake while exploring an underwater cave, nearly running out of oxygen and getting trapped in a strong current. In the second story, a family day at the zoo turned into a terrifying experience when a young nephew went missing in a playground cave system. Both stories serve as reminders to always prioritize safety and never underestimate the risks involved in exploring new places alone.

    • Overlooking warning signs can lead to dangerous situationsTrust your instincts and don't ignore potential dangers, even if it's uncomfortable or inconvenient

      Ignoring red flags can lead to dangerous situations. The author shares a harrowing experience of a kidnap attempt on her nephew, which she only narrowly prevented. She reflects on her friendship with Stephanie, who showed boldness and strength in the face of adversity, while the author was more timid. Despite their close bond, Stephanie's apartment and behavior raised concerns. Strange occurrences, such as the appearance of boxes and unexplained bruises, were dismissed, but eventually, the author heard voices coming from the apartment when Stephanie wasn't home. These incidents served as warning signs that were overlooked. The author's story serves as a reminder to trust our instincts and not ignore potential dangers, no matter how uncomfortable or inconvenient it may be to confront them.

    • Stephanie's mysterious injuries and strange hike experiences linked to her mother's religious practicesBelief has the power to create an unsettling atmosphere and impact our lives in unexpected ways.

      Stephanie's unexplained injuries and the strange events they encountered during their hike at the Pinnacles were linked to her mother's excessive religious practices. The hike, which took place during spring of 2016, began with Stephanie showing Mark her back with three mysterious scratches. They decided to take the easiest trail, the east trail, but were caught in a sudden storm and took shelter in the devil's kitchen. There, they heard branches breaking and saw a tall shadowy figure. The fear and helplessness they felt were a result of the unknown and the deep-rooted religious beliefs of Stephanie's mother, which created an unsettling atmosphere in their home. This incident served as a reminder of the power of belief and how it can impact our lives in unexpected ways.

    • Encountering Fear and UncertaintyFacing fears and taking action is crucial to prevent irrational decisions and maintain healthy relationships.

      Fear and uncertainty can lead to irrational decisions and hasty actions. Stephanie and I encountered a terrifying experience that left us traumatized and changed our lives forever. We were unable to understand what we had encountered, and the fear of the unknown followed us long after the incident. We should have taken action to prevent the situation from escalating, but instead, we ignored the warning signs and let our fear control us. This experience has haunted me for years, and I have been unable to maintain healthy relationships or friendships since then. It serves as a reminder to face our fears and take action instead of letting them consume us. Despite the traumatic experience, it's important to remember that life goes on, and there are still opportunities for travel and new experiences. Wyndham Hotels and Resorts offer a sense of security and comfort, providing a place to rest and recharge no matter where you are or what you're going through.

    • Discovering unexpected finds during hikes and online datingExploring new places and trying new things can lead to exciting discoveries and memories, even with unexpected challenges

      Exploration and new experiences can lead to exciting discoveries and memories, even if they come with unexpected challenges. The speaker's love for hiking and exploring was sparked during high school when he and his friends discovered an old shack and trailer deep in the woods behind their school. They continued to explore the forest together, and as graduating seniors, they decided to camp overnight for the first time. While the experience was filled with nostalgia and sadness, they also encountered a frightening experience that added to their memories. The new Bumble app aims to make online dating easier, safer, and more compatible, allowing users to start conversations and find matches more effectively. Just as the speaker and his friends discovered unexpected finds in the woods, users of the new Bumble app may also discover new connections and experiences.

    • Unexpected dangers in the forest during camping tripCampers should respect nature and leave no trace behind to avoid unexpected dangers and ensure a safe and enjoyable camping experience

      The group of friends had an unforgettable experience during their last camping trip in the forest. They documented their journey, including the various paths, their campsite, and the unexpected events that unfolded. The day went smoothly until the night, when they had a campfire. However, they were careless and left their campsite messy. In the middle of the night, they were awakened by strange footsteps around their campsite. Realizing their mistake, they quickly gathered their things and ran away, leaving everything behind. The experience left them shaken, and they decided to return with a larger group the next day to retrieve their belongings. The forest, with its beautiful trails and unexpected dangers, served as a reminder of the importance of respecting nature and being responsible campers.

    • Encountering the Unknown in the WoodsAn unexpected and unexplained experience in the woods left a group of Boy Scouts feeling uneasy and uncertain, with evidence of disrupted campsites and strange occurrences.

      The woods of Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico held unexpected and terrifying experiences for a group of Boy Scouts. They encountered strange noises and disturbances to their campsite, which they believed were caused by unknown creatures. The scouts described the sounds as unlike anything they had heard before and described the incidents as terrifying. They returned to find their campsite disrupted, with two bikes thrown around and their sleeping bags shredded and hung in trees. The scouts couldn't explain what had happened or why, and they were left with a feeling of unease and uncertainty. The experience left a deep impact on them, and they couldn't shake the feeling that whatever had been in the woods had bad intentions. The scouts also discovered an ancient cemetery nearby, which added to the eerie feeling of the area. The experience served as a reminder that the unexpected can happen in even the most unlikely places and that some things cannot be explained.

    • Encounter with a Giant CreatureRespect the unknown and avoid taunting or messing with unexplained phenomena to prevent dangerous encounters.

      It's important to respect the unknown and avoid taunting or messing with legends or unexplained phenomena. The narrator had a terrifying encounter with a giant, humanoid creature during a camping trip, which left him shaken and eager to leave. Despite feeling safe with his gun and dog, he was forced to confront the creature again on his final day. The creature, which barked like the narrator's dog, was at least 10 feet tall and had elongated, human-like feet. The narrator managed to scare it off, but the experience left him traumatized and eager to leave the area. The incident serves as a reminder to respect the unknown and avoid messing with things that are not fully understood.

    • Encountering the Unknown in the WoodsCamping in the woods can be dangerous due to unknown threats and getting lost, be prepared and aware of surroundings

      The woods were not as safe as they seemed, and encountering the unknown can be terrifying. The speaker was camping when they heard a scream and saw a creature charging towards them. They managed to escape with their dog, but their campsite was destroyed. They continued on, only to realize they were lost and hours away from civilization. The creature followed them, and they eventually found help from a group of hunters. The speaker believes they encountered a satanic cult performing dark occult rituals, and the experience left them shaken. This encounter serves as a reminder of the dangers that exist in nature and the importance of being prepared and aware of one's surroundings.

    • Encountering the Unknown at the Haunted HermitageThe Hermitage, a supposedly haunted site, may not only be home to ghosts but also dangerous individuals.

      The Hermitage, a place the speaker had visited before for ghost hunting, was rumored to be haunted by demons and the site of dark rituals involving animal sacrifices. Despite these warnings and their own experiences of finding nothing paranormal there, they decided to return with friends one night during winter. They parked near the entrance and made their way through the dark forest to the ruins, but found nothing unusual. On their way back, they encountered five individuals in black robes who seemed to be in a trance and moved in perfect synchronization. The leader of the group carried long metal bars and banged them together when they saw the group, prompting them to run back to their van. The speaker's warning is that the Hermitage may not only be haunted by ghosts but also potentially dangerous individuals.

    • Childhood encounter with strangers in the woodsBe aware of surroundings and potential threats, even in familiar places. Danger can come from other people.

      The fear of the unknown and potential danger can be more terrifying than any paranormal experience. The speaker recounts an incident from their childhood where they and their cousins went for a walk in the woods and encountered strange, pursuing individuals. The woods, which were usually a familiar and safe place for them, became a source of intense fear as they slipped and fell on the icy terrain while being chased. The situation escalated when they discovered a potentially dangerous stranger near their van. This experience taught the speaker that sometimes, the greatest danger comes from other people, and it's important to be aware of one's surroundings and potential threats. The speaker also emphasizes the importance of listening to warnings and advice from others.

    • Unexplained occurrences in Donkey WoodsAn encounter with unusual signs and a mysterious figure in Donkey Woods left the group feeling uneasy and uncertain.

      The encounter in Donkey Woods was an unsettling and unexplained experience for the group. The discovery of small tents, a fire, and dead birds in an unusual location created a sense of apprehension and fear. The absence of these signs the next morning added to the mystery. My brother's story of a nighttime encounter with an enormous figure in the woods, complete with massive footsteps and a low growl, further emphasizes the eerie atmosphere of the area. The sudden disappearance of the figure and the flying rock only added to the sense of danger and confusion. Overall, the incidents in Donkey Woods remain unexplained and leave the listener with a feeling of unease.

    • Two men's encounters with a large, bipedal creature in the woods of Southwestern VirginiaTwo men, decades apart, reported seeing a large, bipedal creature in the woods of Southwestern Virginia, leaving them shaken and convinced of an extraordinary encounter

      The woods of Southwestern Virginia may hold more mysteries than most people realize, with reports of encounters with unidentified large creatures, possibly Bigfoot, that have left a lasting impact on those who experienced them. The story shared by the speaker, which was passed down from his father, involves two separate but similar experiences. The first was by the speaker's father, who claimed to have seen a large, bipedal creature with reddish-brown fur snatch a deer from him while he was hunting. The second was from a stranger the father met years later, who also reported seeing a similar creature. These encounters left both men shaken and convinced that they had witnessed something extraordinary. Despite skepticism from family and friends, the stories have remained with them and have been passed down through generations, adding to the intrigue and mystery surrounding the possibility of Bigfoot roaming the Appalachian mountains.

    • Mysterious figures in the woodsDuring a sleepover, the friends encountered mysterious figures in the woods, causing them to abandon the area for years

      The woods surrounding their neighborhood, filled with teepees and structures, held an unexplained mystery. One night during a sleepover, the friends, Wyatt, Timothy, Grant, Troy, and the narrator, noticed something unusual near their hole in the woods. They saw dark figures moving around it when they went to investigate, but their flashlights flickered and went out, leaving them in the dark and panicked. Though they couldn't identify what they had encountered, they abandoned the section of the woods for years. This experience highlighted the sense of unease and the unknown that existed within their cherished woods, adding a layer of mystery to their daily adventures.

    • Encountering a dangerous creature on a bushwalkDuring a seemingly normal bushwalk, a hidden danger emerged, reminding us to stay vigilant even in familiar surroundings.

      A seemingly peaceful and familiar bushwalk in rural Australia took an unexpected and terrifying turn when the explorers encountered a large, black cat, believed to be a panther. The event took place in the autumn of 2008, during the school holidays, at a grandma's house located near the Wombat State Forest in Victoria. The walk began as a routine exploration with the grandma's dogs, but Tilly's sudden and intense barking alerted them to the presence of a dangerous creature. The sighting of the black panther was a reminder that even in familiar surroundings, there can be hidden dangers. The experience left a lasting impression on the narrator and his grandma, and they took extra precautions to ensure the safety of their pets. The encounter also reinforced the long-standing rumors of the presence of a black panther in the area.

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    Are you curious to know the most common issue that I hear about from clients, and from listeners who write in? It’s communication - or, rather problems with communication. Whether it’s being heard, or feeling like you have no idea where your partner is coming from, or you’re trying to communicate one thing but your partner hears something completely different, or you’re always being criticized - the list of potential communication problems goes on and on. Fortunately, today’s guest is going to help you take a monumental leap in the direction of communication that creates growth and connection in your relationship - and in how you communicate with others in general.

    Today’s guest is Marty Babits, contributor to Psychology Today, and Co-Director of the Family and Couples Treatment Service, a division of the Institute of Contemporary Psychotherapy in NYC. Marty is also the author of the extremely helpful book, “I’m Not a Mind-Reader - Using the Power of Three-Dimensional Communication for a Better Relationship”. Marty has been working with families and couples for over twenty-five years, and the wisdom in this book combines that experience with the work of many of the guests who have been here on the show, to create a manual for communication that will give you a completely new perspective on how to do it well.

    Prepare to dive deep into a recipe for communication that is sure to shift the results that you get as you interact with the world - especially the ones you love.

    The 3 dimensions of communication: These 3 dimensions are in every interaction between any two people who are connected:

    The 1st dimension- This is the literal meaning of what we say, or rather the surface meaning. This is where we can ask: are the messages clear and coherent?

    The 2nd dimension- This is the meaning that is under the surface, aka the emotional subtext. This dimension is often more complex and it includes the way we are thinking about the way we are. It is in this dimension that love comes through, or contempt.

    The 3rd dimension- This is the deepest and most profound dimension of communication. It requires reflectiveness and mindfulness. This is where we can take the pulse of whether what we are communicating is moving us towards creating emotional safety with our partner or away from that. Implicit in this dimension is our ability to monitor how the whole direction of the relationship is going.

    Try this: Pause in your next challenging interaction and take a mental snapshot in any given moment and compare it with what is happening 3 minutes later. This will give you a sense of the direction it is going and will help you practice being aware of what feelings, ideas, and tones are actually transpiring compared with those that you would like to be communicating or feeling.  This willingness to become more aware of how we are showing up in our interactions is helpful in any kind of communication!  

    Beginners mind- Foster your willingness to try something new on and a willingness to begin again! Maintaining openness can offer whole new vistas we may be currently unaware of. And that not knowing is okay! Allow yourself to forge ahead into unknown territory knowing that this risk is what it means to be human, and to evolve.

    Bring this openness and willingness to not know into your relationship. Can you be open to the possibility that attitudes can change and that people can grow? Openness and willingness to not know are the key for couples to get out of that locked patterning that can happen due to expectations and assumptions. When one partner begins to change, the other partner often continues to expect more of what they previously experienced, thus not able to see the newness in their partner's actions or attitudes-even when these changes are attempts at trying to create a better relationship. Resistance to change is common, and natural, as there is often a strong sense of inertia that carries you towards what has been, perhaps out of fear because change WILL inevitably disrupt patterns that may have been in place for a long time. To help move forward, consider that when you are busy focusing on your partner’s faults, you often miss all of the nice things that they are doing! In an effort to energize the positive, give yourself a direct encouragement to try to look for those new things. Actually open yourself to the possibility of new trends- this is the heart of what develops in successful couples work, and what ultimately transforms disappointments, disillusionments, and resentments…

    The optimal prelude to conversation is invitation: Are you willing to be open to the possibility that you CAN have better interactions? As we learn over and over again, we can not force someone to feel, see, or hear our perspective- but we CAN invite them to do it. By inviting your partner to join you in conversation is to honor their sense of choice in how they enter the dialogue. This honoring leads to a sense that you respect their inner world, which then sets the stage for more openness and trust. Now the conversation can begin.

    Being safe is a prerequirement for making breakthroughs in intimate communication- This goes for ALL interactions, interpersonal, romantic, sexual, etc. In order to understand each other, people have to be open to each other, and in order to do this there has to be safety. Attachment theory suggests that our survival, and therefore our sense of safety, is dependent on the extent to which we do, or don’t, feel connected to others. Conversely, when we feel threatened (whether this is perceived or real) our autonomic nervous system goes into its fight or flight response, at which point we are not available or open for connection OR communication. Therefore, it is important to cultivate an awareness of how safe our interactions are. Get into the habit of asking yourself “is the way I am communicating right now contributing to an overall sense of safety in this interaction or is it distracting from it?” We all have the capability to activate the part of our neurobiology that is very highly attuned to interpersonal issues! Meaning, we each know how to connect and build empathy in our interactions, we just need to first learn how to be relaxed within ourselves and have the safety in order to do so.

    The power of the unconscious. We are each guilty the following: Your partner says something that makes you feel something, and you make an assumption that how you are feeling is connected to some truth about what your partner just said. This leap happens on an unconscious level. Invite yourself to consider the possibility that you may be misinterpreting! Sometimes we think we are reading our partner’s mind, but we have this unconscious tendency to misread their meaning depending on our own conditioning. This is important to remember as both the receiver/lister and the giver/talker. When you are speaking, bear in mind that your partner may be hearing you through their own lens- communication does not end when you have muttered what you want to say, rather it is a process that you must follow through on, noticing if what you said had the effect you intended.

    Listen three dimensionally! We are more than our words. Words can be profound, yet we are sharing lives not words. Remember that what people mean is more important than what they say. Although, there is a strong relationship between the two! With compassion, we can move ourselves towards fuller expression. This requires a rethinking of what listening is. Expand your sense of listening to include a listening in on your own internal voice so that you can remain aware of what you are thinking , feeling, and believing and how you are putting this together with what you are hearing from the other person. Then work on extending your awareness to  include a consideration of what might be happening inside of the other person that may be producing the speech or the tone you are hearing now. This alive awareness of what is being said, how it is being said, and how it is being received helps move towards a communication that is open, flowing, and receptive enough so that the love that is needed can come through, and the sense of contact and connection is felt and genuine.

    Receiving- to receive you have to give to yourself. For those of you who are more comfortable with being the caregiver than the receiver, allow yourself to see this as an invitation to learn more about yourself. Is there are sense of unworthiness? This is just one example of resistances we may have built in how we are in relationship, and while it may be tempting to accept this as just the way things are, often times rejecting this very notion is what will lead to growth and opening. Remember that ‘working’ on your relationship is really ‘learning’. If you can change your perspective and attitude on problems and redefine them as challenges, then you will be able to turn your problems into opportunities. Get curious and compassionate with yourself and reflect on questions like “How can I make things better?”, “How can i allow myself to feel more loved than i do?”, and “How can I work with receiving while maintaining my integrity?”

    A synonym for complexity is richness! In effort to rethink “working” in and on your relationship, it may be helpful to welcome complexity as richness. Together you can begin looking to create possibilities and new roads where you thought there were dead ends. Ask, “What else is possible in this moment?” and “What if this isn't what i think it is?” These are the questions that make awareness three dimensional. You are aware of the problem AND you are aware of there being other possibilities. With 3D awareness it is as if you can walk around the problem- seeing it without totally being in it.

    Troubleshooting mode- how to turn the ship around. Okay, so let’s say you're in a conversation and it is about to go south- what can you do? First, name it. Say something like “Hey, I think we are at that place we have been before, and I know what has happened in the past, do you think it is possible that we can try to do something different?”. Then, for example, you can say something like  “I’m having that feeling again that we are going further away from each other- let's take a brief break and resolve to come back again and approach this with a more positive attitude- because right now i am feeling a little hopeless and defensive”. These statements are founded on the belief that you CAN change the dance. To do so requires a plan, preemptively created, that can be used in tense moments. If you know that when one of you is triggered, voices often get raised then collaborate together when you are both regulated to set up a plan and a statement such as  “hey babe, you must really be activated right now because you are raising your voice, let's slow down”. Acknowledging each other’s autonomic responses without judgement, and having a plan that gives each other permission to calm back down helps to create emotional safety. This emotional safety is unavailable and often threatened when we are in up-regulated and triggered states.

    Have an insult substitute ready! There are inevitably going to be times when you will not be able to get around your biological state of fight or flight (defense and anger), and this is NOT going to be a time when you are going to create new understandings that are going to become the foundation of a better relationship- no, this is going to be a moment to just get through. When all else fails, and we cannot regulate ourselves with the grace or swiftness our system or our partner needs, then it can be helpful to have a venting statement at the ready as a means of damage control! This allows you to have a way to express your anger or activation in a somewhat contained way. You can say, for instance,  “I'm not going to say what is on my mind right now because if i do it is going to create bad feelings, I just want you to know that I am that angry and I'm going to, for the sake of our relationship, chill out for a minute”. Figure out a statement that works for you and your partner, and don’t be ashamed to use it on occasion- when triggered enough our autonomic system reverts to old patterns and conditioning that can lead to much more damaging behaviors and statements than something like “woah, I’m super activated right now and can’t engage or I may say something hurtful that I would regret”. Remember also that YET, the word and the concept, hold all possibilities present. Try bringing it in when you feel stuck- “I’m not ready, yet”, “I’m not yet calm enough”, “I don’t want to, yet”...

    Communicate don’t Debate”: You may be so accustomed to debate style conversations that you don’t realize any more how much energy is going into discussing who is right and who is wrong. Begin to notice how open you are to hearing each other. You do not have to agree, but you do have to agree to openly listen. The actual nuts and bolts decision making that is often fodder for debate will come easier as you develop your capacity to work things out without being deadlocked in not understanding each other.

    Often criticism is a veiled attempt at repairing a disconnection. This is a hard one to conceptualize, and even harder when we are in midst of hurt. And yet, the idea that criticisms can actually be a way for our partner to say they need to connect with you is a core principle in attachment theory. Of course it is not a great way to do so, nor is it very effective, but it does speak to the concept that our main motivation in communicating is to connect. When we feel we cannot connect effectively than we become frustrated, and this can come out looking like hostility. It is not necessarily hostility against the target person, even though it sounds like it, it is more about what is underneath- a pleading for connection. How does the fear of abandonment and loneliness show up in your interactions? How can you find ways together to say “I am here”, even in those messy and hurt moments?

    The predominant element in relationships is work, not magic. Mindreading, although so tempting and so habitual, is not advised. It is not the mindreading itself that is destructive, as much as it is the assuming that your (mis)reading is the truth. When we take our own readings as the way it is, we leave our partners feeling in the dark and misunderstood. How you analyze or hold onto what you think your partner is thinking and feeling often becomes a critical aspect of the tone of your relationship. It can lead to resentment, frustration, hurt, and alienation. Although you likely know your partner very well, do not confuse this with having the ability to mindread- your assumptions of what are going on with your partner are often times NOT TRUE (especially if you are assuming the worst). Conversely, holding onto the attitude that your partner should automatically and intuitively “already know” is equally destructive and misleading. The golden rule is that YOU have the responsibility to help your partner understand what you are feeling. Express and share yourself in a clear way so that your partner can better give you what you want. Through a mutual commitment of 1) not mindreading and 2) not holding onto the “well my partner should have known” ideal, you will become partners, not adversaries. This is not to say that partners who are close sometimes CAN understand each other on a beautifully profound level, or that there are times when genuine unconscious communication does happen, but it cannot be expected or taken for granted. In general, relationships DO take work, especially when it comes to communication.  

    Resources

    Read Marty’s book “I’m Not a Mind-Reader - Using the Power of Three-Dimensional Communication for a Better Relationship”

    Learn more about Marty’s work at his website martybabits.com

    Check out his blog on psychologytoday

    www.neilsattin.com/communication Visit to download the show guide, or text “PASSION” to 33444 and follow the instructions to download the show guide to this episode with Marty Babits and qualify for a signed copy of his book.

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