Podcast Summary
Exploring transformative experiences and their impact on the self: Transformative experiences change who we are, challenge belief systems, impact values, and shape our relationship to future selves. They raise deeper metaphysical questions about causation, possibility, and reality.
Learning from this conversation between Sam Harris and LA Paul is the exploration of transformative experiences and their impact on the self. Transformative experiences are not just wow, amazing experiences, but also those that change who we are in profound ways. LA Paul, a philosopher with a background in metaphysics, time, and the self, has studied these experiences and their implications. She explains that these experiences often change our belief systems, values, and even our relationship to our future selves. They can lead to regret or empathy, and understanding them can help us navigate moral dilemmas and the moral landscape. Furthermore, the nature of these experiences is intimately related to deeper metaphysical questions about causation, possibility, and the nature of reality. LA Paul's work in this area sheds light on the complexity and significance of transformative experiences and their role in shaping who we are.
The complex challenge of decision-making during transformative experiences: Transformative experiences change us fundamentally, making it complex for decision theory as the decision-maker and the experiencer are different entities, yet the ability to adapt and embrace these changes brings joy to many.
Transformative experiences, such as becoming a parent, hold an intriguing challenge for rational decision-making. These experiences change us fundamentally, creating a new self that is different from the person making the decision. Before the experience, we can only partially grasp the essentials of the change, but the full understanding comes only after the transformation. This creates a complex issue for decision theory, as the person making the decision and the person experiencing the consequences are different entities. Despite this challenge, people often find joy in the human psyche's ability to adapt and embrace these transformative experiences, even if the pre-experience self might have judged the outcome differently.
Considering the impact of having a child on one's desires and values: The decision to become a parent involves evaluating how having a child may change your desires and values, recognizing the potential circularity of the experience, and understanding that regret or its absence may not be the only indicator of the rightness of the decision.
Making the decision to become a parent involves considering not only the potential happiness that may come after having a child, but also the uncertainty of whether one's desires and values will remain the same after the experience. The self that evaluates the decision may not be the same as the self that would result from having a child. Regret, or the absence of it, may not provide clear evidence of the rightness of the decision, as the self that makes the decision and the self that results from it may be different. It's important to recognize that these experiences can involve a circularity that makes it difficult to fully understand what might have been. Additionally, it's worth noting that there may be a similar absence of regret among those who choose not to have children. Ultimately, the decision to become a parent is a complex one that involves considering not only the present self, but also the potential future self.
The Complexities of Desires and Values: Our desires and values can change, leading to conflicting higher and lower orders, impacting knowledge and beliefs. Avoidance of ideas or experiences can stem from biases or wishful thinking.
Our desires and values can fluctuate, leading us to experience conflicting higher and lower order desires. This can be seen in simple cases like eating ice cream, where we may regret giving in to our lower desire after the fact. However, in more transformative experiences like religious conversions, our values can shift completely and then potentially revert. It's important to consider how these fluctuations impact our knowledge and beliefs. While we may avoid certain ideas or experiences due to prejudgments or mental hygiene concerns, these actions can also stem from cognitive biases or wishful thinking. Ultimately, understanding the complexities of our desires and values can provide insight into the nature of personal identity and the human experience.
Choosing to limit information can have negative consequences: It's important to consider potential benefits and risks before consciously avoiding information, especially in uncertain situations.
It can be rational to consciously choose to limit or avoid certain information if the potential negative consequences outweigh the potential benefits, especially when dealing with transformative experiences or beliefs for which there is no definitive evidence. However, this approach can be problematic when applied to situations where the nature of the experience or belief is unknown, as avoiding the experience may prevent the discovery of potential benefits or truths. The speaker also touched upon the social phenomenon of conspiracy thinking and the sunk cost fallacy, which can make it difficult for individuals to abandon their beliefs or ideas, even when faced with contradictory evidence.
Exploring new ideas while staying grounded in core values: Maintain a balance between new ideas and core beliefs, avoid getting lost in empathy, and consider both emotional appeal and rational analysis when allocating resources.
While exploring new ideas and perspectives can be enriching, it's essential to maintain a solid foundation of rational thinking and values. The danger lies in becoming too engrossed in the allure of new information that we may lose sight of our core beliefs. This phenomenon can be compared to the siren song in Homer's Odyssey, which could lure sailors away from their intended course. Moreover, empathy plays a crucial role in our thought process. Empathy is a powerful tool for understanding others, but it can also lead us astray if we're not careful. Paul Bloom distinguishes between affective empathy (feeling what others feel) and cognitive empathy (entering into someone else's perspective). While cognitive empathy can help us represent others' beliefs and emotions, it's essential to avoid losing ourselves in the process. Another challenge is the disconnect between causes that tug at our heartstrings and those that are most effective based on rational analysis. It's essential to strike a balance between our emotional responses and our rational priorities. By allocating resources to causes based on both emotional appeal and rational analysis, we can have our cake and eat it too. Ultimately, it's essential to remember that the rational calculus needs to include the value of experience. While we explore new ideas and perspectives, we must remain grounded in our core values and beliefs. This approach allows us to expand our horizons while staying true to ourselves.
Balancing rationality and emotions in decision making: Consider both rational calculus and emotional connection when making decisions to maximize positive impact on the world and personal happiness.
When making decisions, especially those involving ethics and doing good, it's essential to consider both the rational calculus and the human element. The rational calculus, while important, can sometimes lack empathy and understanding of the human experiences involved. On the other hand, focusing solely on emotions and experiences can lead to neglecting the potential for significant positive impact. Therefore, it's crucial to find a balance between the two, acknowledging the limitations of human comprehension and the importance of both rational decision-making and emotional connection. Additionally, it's important to recognize that our actions may have different psychological impacts on us, and we should strive to find ways to maximize both the positive impact on the world and our own happiness and well-being.
Understanding the Long Causal Chains of Our Actions: Being aware of the long-term impact of our actions on ourselves and others is crucial for meaningful philanthropy. Prioritize experiences that bring us closer to the people and situations we aim to help to build a stronger connection.
Our actions and their impact on ourselves and others, especially in the context of philanthropy, can have long causal chains that make it difficult to directly experience or feel the connection to the good we intend to do. This disconnect can extend to our relationships with our past, future, and possible selves. We often prioritize immediate needs or pleasures over future ones, neglecting the potential long-term impact on our future selves. It's essential to be aware of these long causal chains and consider the potential impact on all versions of ourselves. To build a stronger connection, we can strive for experiences that bring us closer to the people and situations we aim to help. By doing so, we can create a more meaningful and impactful relationship with the good we intend to do.
Our perception of ourselves and experiences changes based on temporal distance: People value their future experiences more than their past ones, even if uncertain or unpleasant, illustrating our desire for happiness and avoidance of suffering.
Our perception of ourselves and our experiences changes depending on the temporal distance. When we think about ourselves in the near future or the present, we imagine ourselves as occupying the perspective. However, when we think about ourselves in the distant future, we observe ourselves from an external perspective. This difference in perception might affect how we understand and respond to situations, especially when it comes to pain or suffering. Derek Parfitt's thought experiment about a person in a hospital illustrates this idea. The person is unsure whether they have already undergone a painful surgery or will undergo one in the future. If asked before the event, they would prefer to avoid the painful experience. However, if asked after the event and given a choice between the past painful experience they cannot remember and the future unpleasant procedure, they would prefer to have the past painful experience. This shows that people place greater importance on their future experiences, even if they are uncertain or unpleasant. While some might find this phenomenon strange, it might be a natural response to our desire for happiness and avoidance of suffering. However, it's important to remember that our perception of time and our experiences can be subjective and may not always align with objective reality.
The value of experiences depends on their placement in time: Human psychology values future experiences due to anticipation and past experiences due to their fixed nature, but acknowledging psychological contingencies is crucial for rational decision making.
When considering the value of experiences, both objective facts and subjective conscious experiences matter. While a detached perspective may prioritize maximizing the area under the curve of temporal stages, human psychology values experiences differently based on their placement in time. We anticipate the future and feel that the past is fixed, leading to a natural bias towards future experiences. This psychological fact can be seen in the way we react to painful experiences, which can ultimately lead to positive outcomes and personal growth. However, the complications of valuing future experiences based on potential transformative outcomes are not straightforward. For instance, the value of disability or a traumatic experience can be seen from the perspective of the transformed self, but the pre-transformative self may also value its current state. Ultimately, acknowledging the psychological contingencies of human experience is crucial when making rational decisions.
Values and beliefs are subjective and unique to each individual: Respect individual values, be cautious about changing them, and embrace transformative experiences that bring about endogenous change
There is no objective fact about which set of values or beliefs is better than the other. Each individual has their unique set of values, and it is essential to respect them as long as they are respectable. The possibility of changing one's values deliberately is a complex issue, and if we can directly change our brains, we would face the challenge of deciding which values to change while knowing that the standard by which we judge the goodness of the change can also be altered. This is a fascinating yet murky territory, and it is essential to approach it with caution. Ultimately, it is up to each individual to decide what values they want to hold and live by, and no one should be pressured to act against their values. The conversation also touched upon the idea of transformative experiences, which can bring about endogenous changes that alter the very thing that was an issue. To continue exploring these ideas, it is recommended to subscribe to the Making Sense podcast at samharris.org for access to full-length episodes and other subscriber-only content.
