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    50. How they avoid tax and get away with it

    enApril 17, 2024

    Podcast Summary

    • Bumble's new features for better dating experienceBumble introduces new tools for easier compatibility, starting conversations, and ensuring safety in the dating world. Discussions also covered Liz Truss's departure, competent Whitehall, tax avoidance, and retail expansion.

      Bumble is introducing new features to enhance the dating experience by making compatibility easier, starting conversations, and ensuring safety. The hosts, Steph McGovern and Robert Preston, discussed the Liz Truss miniseries and the controversy surrounding her departure from office. They also highlighted the importance of competent Whitehall and the Bank of England. Moving on, they discussed Rachel Reeves' plan to tackle tax avoidance and evasion. Robert shared his personal stance on tax and his commitment to paying it. The hosts also planned to delve into the current state of retail, focusing on Aldi and Lidl's expansion and the challenges they are facing.

    • Labour's Plan to Address the Tax GapLabour's Rachel Reeves proposes £500m investment in HMRC to boost tax compliance, aiming for £5bn annual revenue increase, but skepticism surrounds the feasibility of the target.

      Rachel Reeves, a Labour Party member, has proposed a plan to address the tax gap by increasing the number of compliance officers, investing in digitization, and collaborating with businesses to improve tax compliance. The reason for this push is due to the Conservative Party's announcement to implement a similar policy regarding non-doms, which was a significant source of revenue for Labour's election promises. Reeves aims to allocate £500 million to HMRC, believing it will lead to an additional £5 billion in tax revenue annually. However, there's skepticism about whether HMRC will actually be able to collect that amount. The current tax gap in the UK is approximately £36 billion, which is around 5% of the total tax due. The gap exists due to a combination of mistakes, tax avoidance, and tax evasion. Reeves' plan is a response to losing a substantial amount of revenue due to the Conservative Party's actions.

    • Tax Evasion vs Tax Avoidance: Understanding the DifferenceTax evasion is illegal non-payment of taxes, while tax avoidance is using legal loopholes to reduce tax liabilities. The ethical implications of tax avoidance depend on the individual's perspective and potential impact on public services.

      There is a difference between tax evasion and avoidance. Tax evasion is the deliberate act of breaking the law by not paying taxes owed. Tax avoidance, on the other hand, involves exploiting loopholes in the tax law through complex schemes, which may or may not be legal. The k2 tax scheme, which involved hiring workers through offshore shell companies to reduce tax liabilities, was not illegal but was considered dodgy. Ethically, those who use public services in a country have an obligation to pay their taxes. However, there can be gray areas when employers encourage such practices. The k2 scheme gained controversy when celebrities were involved, highlighting the ethical dilemma surrounding tax avoidance. Ultimately, the decision between evasion and avoidance comes down to an individual's moral compass and whether they believe they are breaking the law.

    • IR35 legislation's impact on individuals and businessesIR35 legislation aims to address disguised employment and tax evasion but its complexities and costs deter genuine contractors and may warrant more effective use of HMRC resources.

      The IR35 legislation was introduced to address the issue of individuals working as disguised employees, paying less tax than they should be. However, the application of this legislation can be complex and costly, as seen in the high-profile case of Lorraine Kelly, who argued that she was a brand providing a product to ITV rather than an employee. The IR35 reforms have also deterred some genuine contractors from working due to the complexities and potential costs. While the HMRC's efforts to increase tax revenue through IR35 may seem efficient, experts argue that hiring more staff to monitor tax avoidance schemes on social media could be a more effective use of resources. The difficulty in contacting HMRC for assistance further complicates matters. Overall, the IR35 legislation's implementation and impact on individuals and businesses remain a contentious issue.

    • Investing in tax digitization can bring significant revenue increases, but there are limitsEvery extra pound to HMRC can raise £9 in tax, but there are diminishing returns and not all tax gap can be closed through efficiency measures

      Investing in digitizing tax services can lead to significant increases in tax revenue, but there are limits to how much revenue can be generated through such investments. The speaker mentions that for every additional pound given to HMRC, £9 in additional tax can be raised. However, there are diminishing returns, meaning that the more money given to HMRC, the harder it becomes to generate more tax. Additionally, not all of the tax gap can be closed through efficiency measures. The speaker also discusses the complexity of the tax system and the importance of accountability, using the example of an investigation into potential tax owed by Angela Rayner. Despite the potential revenue gains, it remains uncertain whether the proposed 5 billion pound investment in HMRC would result in the expected return. The speaker also notes that the tax gap, which is currently around 4.8%, has been gradually decreasing over the past few decades. However, there may be a point where further reductions become difficult.

    • Family control and long-term perspective of Lidl and AldiLidl and Aldi's family control and long-term perspective have enabled them to expand rapidly, offer competitive prices, and weather economic challenges, despite substantial debt from past expansion efforts.

      The business models of discount supermarkets Lidl and Aldi, which are privately owned and family-controlled, have allowed them to expand rapidly and offer competitive prices without the pressure to meet shareholder demands. This long-term perspective has helped them weather economic challenges like the pandemic and maintain their growth, even as they face debt from past expansion efforts. During the discussion, Robert Peston highlighted the success of Lidl and Aldi in the UK grocery market since the 1990s. Their smaller stores, focus on own-label products, and efficient operations have enabled them to capture a significant market share, despite not yet reaching Tesco's dominance. These discounters have also expanded their offerings to include higher-end products, making them a one-stop-shop for various consumer needs. However, Lidl's aggressive expansion strategy has left them with substantial debt, while Aldi has relied on family funds for investment. The family control of Aldi has given them the flexibility to take a long-term view and weather economic downturns, allowing them to grow and compete effectively with larger supermarkets. This family control and long-term perspective have been crucial factors in their success.

    • Lidl's Profitability Hit by Debt Interest Rates, Slowing Expansion and Store ClosuresLidl's expansion plans are being impacted by increased debt interest rates, leading to store closures and a decrease in market share growth to 25%. Retailers like Asda and Morrisons are also selling properties to repay debt. The challenge of substantial debt repayment for retailers who expanded during cheaper borrowing times remains.

      Lidl, a discount retailer, has seen its profitability significantly impacted due to increased interest rates on its debt. This financial strain has led to a slowdown in expansion plans, including the closure of some stores. The discounter's market share growth to 25% is now less likely, and competitors like Aldi are poised to take advantage. Lidl faces a substantial debt repayment of over £2 billion in the next five years, which it may not have anticipated when interest rates were lower. Additionally, retailers like Asda and Morrisons are selling off properties to raise funds for debt repayment. The issue of debt, particularly for retailers who expanded aggressively during cheaper borrowing times, is a significant challenge. The question remains as to whether the Bank of England bears some responsibility for this situation.

    • UK Retail Industry's Impact on Food Prices and Farmers' LivelihoodsThe UK has cheaper food prices but farmers face market power abuse, affecting their ability to invest in quality produce. Consumers prioritize low prices, but this can put farmers in a precarious financial situation. Investing in the indigenous food industry is crucial for food security, but fair prices for farmers are also essential.

      The debate around competition in the retail industry and its impact on food prices and farmers' livelihoods is a complex issue. While it's true that the UK has cheaper food prices compared to some countries, the quality and fairness of the production process are often overlooked. Farmers argue that UK supermarkets abuse their market power, making it difficult for them to invest in producing quality produce. Food security is an important consideration, and investing in the indigenous food industry is crucial. However, the high prices paid to farmers can be a double-edged sword. In the past, farmers have faced pressure to accept lower prices at the last minute, leaving them in a precarious financial situation. Consumers prioritize the best prices, but it's essential to consider the implications of price pressure on the people who produce our food. This is a debate that requires more attention and consideration.

    • Sharon White, Chair of John Lewis and Waitrose, Appreciates All Types of RetailersDespite leading a premium retailer, Sharon White acknowledges the value of all retailers, from discount stores to luxury brands.

      The retail industry encompasses a wide range of options catering to various consumer preferences and budgets. Sharon White, who has led John Lewis through challenging times including the COVID-19 pandemic and the rise of online retailing, chairs a company that owns Waitrose, which is considered a higher-priced retailer compared to discount stores like Lidl and Aldi. Despite her role and occasional shopping at Waitrose, the speaker expressed appreciation for all types of retailers, including discount stores and luxury brands. The upcoming interview with Sharon White promises to be insightful as she shares her experiences and perspectives on the retail landscape. Remember, you can send in your questions for the team at Rest is Money to answer in their future episodes.

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