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    BTC177: The Future of Bitcoin Borrowing and Lending w/ Max Kei (Bitcoin Podcast)

    enApril 10, 2024

    Podcast Summary

    • Banks' inability to custody Bitcoin hinders lendingDespite lower risk in Bitcoin lending due to 24/7 market and large balance sheets, banks can't lend against Bitcoin due to custody challenges. Once resolved, Bitcoin will integrate seamlessly into traditional finance.

      The main issue preventing banks from lending against Bitcoin is their inability to custody the digital asset. The speaker argues that banks have no problem dealing with the risk of lending against traditional assets like stocks, and that the risk of lending against Bitcoin would actually be lower due to its 24/7 market and the fact that banks are already comfortable taking risks with large balance sheets. However, the lack of custody solutions for Bitcoin is currently holding back the development of Bitcoin credit markets. The speaker also mentions that there are regulatory and technological challenges preventing banks from custodying Bitcoin, but believes that once these issues are resolved, the integration of Bitcoin into traditional financial systems will become straightforward.

    • Trust issues in Bitcoin lending and how to address themBitcoiners prefer self-custody and control, trust issues with traditional finance lenders have increased after past failures, multi-signature wallets offer a solution, and catering to Bitcoiners' unique needs is key to success

      The gap between Bitcoin borrowers and traditional finance lenders is significant due to trust issues surrounding asset custody. Bitcoiners value the independence and control that comes with holding their own Bitcoin keys, and past incidents like the failures of BlockFi and Celsius have heightened this mistrust. However, there are Bitcoin lending platforms like Unchain Capital that use multi-signature wallets to address these concerns. Bitcoin lending can be done differently and more efficiently than traditional collateralized lending, and it's essential for lenders to build products that appeal to both Bitcoiners and traditional finance people. Ultimately, the key to success lies in understanding and catering to the unique needs and values of the Bitcoin community.

    • Considering Risks in Bitcoin and Stocks InvestmentsRiver offers secure Bitcoin transactions with US-based managers, self-built infrastructure, and RiverLink, while MECA delivers real-time stock insights. Be cautious of commingling funds in alternative investments.

      When it comes to investing, whether it's Bitcoin or stocks, it's important to consider the risks involved, especially when dealing with collateral. River, a Bitcoin company, sets a new standard by offering US-based relationship managers, self-built infrastructure, and a unique feature called RiverLink for easy Bitcoin transactions. On the other hand, MECA is a free AI-powered stock research assistant that delves into financial data and delivers insights in real-time. Meanwhile, the world of alternative investments, as detailed in Tony Robbins' new book "The Holy Grail of Investing," offers potential high returns, but comes with its own set of risks. One significant issue is the commingling of funds, particularly when it comes to collateral. Instances like BlockFi, where retail and institutional investors' collateral are combined, can lead to potential risks, even for those who are over-collateralized. As Wall Street enters the space, understanding and addressing this issue is crucial for minimizing risks.

    • Securely holding Bitcoin through proper custody methodsFocus on secure Bitcoin custody using multi-signature wallets and avoid over-collateralization in yield generation products to mitigate risk.

      Bitcoin is a unique asset that generates yield through its inherent value appreciation, and individuals should focus on securely holding their Bitcoin through proper custody methods, such as multi-signature wallets and avoiding over-collateralization in yield generation products. The risk of commingling funds or re-hypothecating Bitcoin can lead to devastating consequences, regardless of the size or reputation of the institution involved. The Bitcoin community has the potential to provide tools and solutions for financial institutions to offer secure and non-rehypothecated Bitcoin custody services, ensuring customer trust and control. The relentless nature of Bitcoin makes it imperative for individuals and institutions to prioritize proper risk management and custody practices.

    • Borrowing against Bitcoin with secure custodyAs Bitcoin's price grows, demand for borrowing against it increases. Banks offering secure, decentralized custody can act as lenders, while Bitcoiners prefer multi-signature or collaborative custody setups. Consider using a price oracle to mitigate risk from relying on a single exchange or reference rate.

      As the price of Bitcoin continues to grow and more people become interested in it, the demand for borrowing against Bitcoin while keeping ownership of the asset will increase. However, many Bitcoiners prefer not to trust third-party custodians and instead opt for multi-signature or collaborative custody setups. Banks that offer such services are already emerging in certain regions, and these institutions can act as lenders while the Bitcoin collateral is held in a secure, decentralized manner. It's crucial to consider the reliability and diversity of the price sources when engaging in borrowing and lending activities, as a single exchange or reference rate may not accurately represent the market. A price oracle that aggregates data from multiple exchanges can help mitigate this risk.

    • Understanding Bitcoin price feeds for borrowingBitcoin's liquidity, availability, and collaborative custody make it a revolutionary 'super collateral' for borrowing, with security ensured through multiple keys and institutional lenders.

      When it comes to Bitcoin borrowing, it's crucial to understand how the price feed works for your collateral and the technology used by the platform providing the opportunity. The speaker emphasizes their experience in avoiding price volatility issues by taking the most liquid exchanges and constructing their own price oracles. Bitcoin's highly liquid nature makes it an ideal collateral for lenders due to its 24/7 availability for liquidation. For borrowers, collaborative custody with distributed risk is essential for security. In the context of DebiFi, one key goes to the lender, one to the borrower, one to DebiFi, and the fourth to an independent authorized keyholder for dispute resolution or liquidation. The use of multiple keys and institutional lenders adds an extra layer of security. Bitcoin's liquidity, availability, and collaborative custody make it a revolutionary "super collateral" unlike anything the world has seen before.

    • Bitcoin as a collateral asset in credit marketsBitcoin's single price and market-driven nature make it an ideal collateral for lending and borrowing, offering transparency, liquidity, and eliminating the need for intermediaries in credit markets.

      The Bitcoin network provides a unique opportunity for highly liquid, global, and collaborative custody, which can improve the current credit markets by offering a highly objective and transparent collateral asset. The Bitcoin network's single price and market-driven asset nature make it an ideal collateral for lending and borrowing, allowing institutions to easily provide liquidity and open new markets without the need for physical valuations or intermediaries. However, ensuring the security of keys remains a challenge, even with advanced tools, as there is always a human factor involved. The consensus rules in the Bitcoin network help mitigate risks for both borrowers and lenders, making it a promising alternative to traditional credit markets with high-interest rates, which often rely on individual promises and credit history as collateral.

    • Bitcoin as a collateral for loansBitcoin's security and decentralization make it an ideal underlying asset for credit products, potentially leading to better interest rates and reduced risk for lenders, and more accessible and affordable credit options for individuals.

      Bitcoin has the potential to revolutionize the credit market by enabling individuals to use it as collateral for loans, leading to better interest rates and reduced risk for lenders. This is because Bitcoin transactions are secure and decentralized, making it an ideal underlying asset for credit products. Unlike traditional collateral such as stocks or real estate, Bitcoin can be easily used for collateral in various credit use cases. This could lead to more accessible and affordable credit options for individuals. Additionally, businesses like Shopify are making it easier than ever to start and grow a business, providing essential tools and resources for entrepreneurs at every stage.

    • Bitcoin-backed credit cards offer lower interest rates with Bitcoin collateralBitcoin-backed credit cards provide lower interest rates using Bitcoin as collateral, but the substantial amount of collateral required and Bitcoin's volatility add complexity. It's not just for large loans, and offers benefits for borrowers and lenders.

      Bitcoin-backed credit cards offer significantly lower interest rates compared to traditional credit cards due to the use of Bitcoin as collateral. However, the amount of collateral required to secure these lower rates is substantial, and the volatility of Bitcoin adds complexity to the calculation. The mindset shift needed for this type of credit card is that it's not just for large loans but also for smaller ones, and the collateral can be easily delivered to the underlying account. This offers benefits for both borrowers and lenders, with lenders having a higher likelihood of loan repayment and access to collateral if necessary. While there are ongoing discussions about how traditional institutions can access and incorporate this knowledge responsibly, it's currently unclear whether an API offering is in the works or if institutions must work directly with the platform.

    • Making Bitcoin Borrowing and Lending More Accessible with DebiFiDebiFi is developing a decentralized finance platform to make Bitcoin borrowing and lending more accessible and user-friendly for institutions and individuals through onboarding assistance, API, hybrid lender model, mobile app, and hardware wallet support.

      DebiFi is developing a decentralized finance platform that aims to make borrowing and lending with Bitcoin more accessible and user-friendly for traditional financial institutions and individual users. They plan to achieve this through onboarding assistance, an upcoming API, and a hybrid model for lender interaction. For individual users, DebiFi offers a mobile app as a key storage solution, allowing users to manage their keys securely on their mobile devices. However, they also plan to add hardware wallet support soon. For institutional lenders, there are different key management options, including storing keys on servers or using cold storage. Regardless of the approach, the keys will be distributed across multiple parties for added security. Additionally, DebiFi plans to offer a service where regulated funds can manage liquidity on their behalf for "lazy lenders" who prefer not to manage their keys directly. The platform is designed to be accessible to non-technical users, and they are working to ensure an easy onboarding process. Overall, DebiFi's approach to decentralized finance aims to make the process more accessible and secure for a wider audience, including traditional financial institutions and individual users. Their focus on key management and user experience sets them apart from other decentralized finance platforms.

    • The Significance and Inevitability of Stablecoins in the Financial SystemStablecoins offer faster, more confidential transactions and are gaining popularity despite varying regulations. Use cases expand in borrowing, lending, cross-border payments, and everyday transactions. Governments that encourage innovation will prevail in the long run, and financial freedom through stablecoins is crucial in the 21st century.

      The adoption and integration of stablecoins in the financial system are becoming increasingly significant and inevitable, despite varying regulatory policies around the world. Stablecoins, which function as a better version of fiat currency with faster, more confidential transactions, are gaining popularity in regions where traditional financial institutions are slow to understand their value. As more stablecoin issuers collaborate with governments to clarify regulations, the use cases for stablecoins in borrowing, lending, cross-border payments, and everyday transactions continue to expand. The evolution of money from traditional finance to stablecoins is a natural process, and those governments that encourage innovation will ultimately prevail in the long run. Financial freedom through stablecoins is a crucial aspect of the 21st century, and governments must embrace it to remain competitive.

    • Trust in Decentralized Finance CompaniesDespite risks, reliable DeFi companies like Hottle Hottle and Debefi offer trustworthy services and commit to responsible lending practices. Non-custodial institutions that respect customer assets will thrive in the long run.

      Despite the risks involved in decentralized finance (DeFi) and lending platforms, companies like Hottle Hottle and Debefi continue to offer reliable services to borrowers and lenders. The speaker expresses trust in these companies due to their consistent performance and commitment to responsible lending practices. He also emphasizes the importance of understanding the unique nature of Bitcoin and the risks associated with fractional reserve fiat games. The speaker believes that a small percentage of institutions who adopt a non-custodial approach and respect their customers' rights to independent assets will prevail and grow stronger in the long run. The speaker encourages listeners to explore these platforms and tools, but stresses the importance of making informed decisions and consulting professionals before making any investments.

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    On today’s episode, Clay reviews Jeff Bezos’ shareholder letters and shares his biggest takeaways. Jeff Bezos is an exceptional capital allocator who has delivered unprecedented returns to shareholders. Since Amazon’s IPO, the stock is up 152,400%. IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00 - Intro 01:58 - How Jeff Bezos thought about building Amazon.com in the early days. 04:51 - Why Bezos believed that focusing on the customer is in the best interest of shareholders. 15:55 - Why Amazon’s business model was more capital efficient than physical retail stores. 23:26 - Why Bezos is more terrified of his customers than his competition. 25:17 - Why Bezos largely ignored Amazon’s volatile stock price movements. 36:55 - Why Bezos encouraged an ownership mindset. 57:12 - The three business units that created the majority of shareholder value for Amazon shareholders. 59:30 - Our favorite framework from Jeff Bezos. And so much more! Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences. BOOKS AND RESOURCES Join the exclusive TIP Mastermind Community to engage in meaningful stock investing discussions with Stig, Clay, Kyle, and the other community members. Related Episode: TIP506: How Jeff Bezos Built Amazon | YouTube video. Follow Clay on Twitter.  Check out all the books mentioned and discussed in our podcast episodes here. Enjoy ad-free episodes when you subscribe to our Premium Feed. NEW TO THE SHOW? Follow our official social media accounts: X (Twitter) | LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | TikTok. Check out our We Study Billionaires Starter Packs. Browse through all our episodes (complete with transcripts) here. Try our tool for picking stock winners and managing our portfolios: TIP Finance Tool. Enjoy exclusive perks from our favorite Apps and Services. Stay up-to-date on financial markets and investing strategies through our daily newsletter, We Study Markets. Learn how to better start, manage, and grow your business with the best business podcasts. SPONSORS Support our free podcast by supporting our sponsors: River Toyota CI Financial Sun Life AFR The Bitcoin Way Industrious Briggs & Riley Range Rover Meyka iFlex Stretch Studios Vacasa Public Simon & Schuster USPS American Express Shopify HELP US OUT! Help us reach new listeners by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts! It takes less than 30 seconds, and really helps our show grow, which allows us to bring on even better guests for you all! Thank you – we really appreciate it! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm

    BTC186: Fiat Food & Bitcoin w/ Matthew Lysiak (Bitcoin Podcast)

    BTC186: Fiat Food & Bitcoin w/ Matthew Lysiak (Bitcoin Podcast)
    In this episode of the Bitcoin Fundamentals Podcast, investigative journalist Matthew Lysiak discusses his latest book on fiat food policies, influential figures like Ancel Keys, corporate interests, and the impact of inflation on health. IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00 - Intro 02:22 - The history and impact of fiat food policies. 10:11 - The role of influential figures like Ancel Keys and John Harvey Kellogg. 25:11 - Insights into nutrient density and its importance. 26:21 - How to accurately measure the CPI bucket considering nutrient dense food prices. 29:02 - How corporate interests have shaped national food policies since 1884. 40:30 - The monetary and nutrition shifts of the 1970s. 52:03 - The real cost of inflation on financial, physical, and mental health. 56:21 - How Bitcoin can change the current food and health landscape. Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences. BOOKS AND RESOURCES Matthew’s Book: Fiat Food. Check out all the books mentioned and discussed in our podcast episodes here. Enjoy ad-free episodes when you subscribe to our Premium Feed. NEW TO THE SHOW? Follow our official social media accounts: X (Twitter) | LinkedIn | | Instagram | Facebook | TikTok. Check out our Bitcoin Fundamentals Starter Packs. Browse through all our episodes (complete with transcripts) here. Try our tool for picking stock winners and managing our portfolios: TIP Finance Tool. Enjoy exclusive perks from our favorite Apps and Services. Stay up-to-date on financial markets and investing strategies through our daily newsletter, We Study Markets. Learn how to better start, manage, and grow your business with the best business podcasts. SPONSORS Support our free podcast by supporting our sponsors: River Toyota CI Financial Sun Life AFR The Bitcoin Way Industrious Briggs & Riley Range Rover Meyka iFlex Stretch Studios Vacasa Public Simon & Schuster USPS American Express Shopify Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm

    TIP636: Billionaire Investing Legend Li Lu w/ Clay Finck

    TIP636: Billionaire Investing Legend Li Lu w/ Clay Finck
    On today’s episode, Clay dives into the investment approach of billionaire value investor Li Lu. Li Lu is the Founder and Chairman of Himalaya Capital, a value investing firm where he has been managing its principal fund since 1997. Before his passing in 2023, Charlie Munger was an investor in the fund. IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN: 00:00 - Intro 01:27 - The back story of Li Lu’s early life. 06:46 - Li Lu’s investment philosophy. 08:28 - The four key investment principles he adheres to. 29:36 - Li Lu’s view on investing in China. 44:52 - An overview of Alphabet, one of Li Lu’s top holdings. Disclaimer: Slight discrepancies in the timestamps may occur due to podcast platform differences. BOOKS AND RESOURCES Join the exclusive TIP Mastermind Community to engage in meaningful stock investing discussions with Stig, Clay, Kyle, and the other community members. Li Lu’s book: Moving the Mountain. Check out: FT Magazine Article. Check out: Li Lu’s 2006 talk at Columbia. Related Episode: RWH008: Playing to Win w/ Mohnish Pabrai | YouTube video. Follow Clay on Twitter.  Check out all the books mentioned and discussed in our podcast episodes here. Enjoy ad-free episodes when you subscribe to our Premium Feed. NEW TO THE SHOW? Follow our official social media accounts: X (Twitter) | LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | TikTok. Check out our We Study Billionaires Starter Packs. Browse through all our episodes (complete with transcripts) here. Try our tool for picking stock winners and managing our portfolios: TIP Finance Tool. Enjoy exclusive perks from our favorite Apps and Services. Stay up-to-date on financial markets and investing strategies through our daily newsletter, We Study Markets. Learn how to better start, manage, and grow your business with the best business podcasts. SPONSORS Support our free podcast by supporting our sponsors: River Toyota Sun Life Range Rover AFR The Bitcoin Way Meyka CI Financial Industrious Fidelity Long Angle Briggs & Riley AFR Fundrise iFlex Stretch Studios Public NDTCO American Express Shopify HELP US OUT! Help us reach new listeners by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts! It takes less than 30 seconds, and really helps our show grow, which allows us to bring on even better guests for you all! Thank you – we really appreciate it! Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://theinvestorspodcastnetwork.supportingcast.fm

    Related Episodes

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    Ethereum vs The STABLE Act | Rohan Grey

    Ethereum vs The STABLE Act | Rohan Grey

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    Ethereum vs The STABLE Act | Rohan Grey

    Rohan Grey is an assistant professor of Law at Willamette University, an Advisor to politicians including Rashida Tlaib, and one of the authors of the STABLE Act, which wants to impose Federal Bank Chartering upon any stablecoin issuer.

    Interesting, this proposed legislation includes entities like Square's Cash App or PayPal! Anything that offers a claim on 1 Dollar is cited by this law. 

    Rohan and the STABLE Act appear to be an outgrowth of the rise of MMT and the power and ability of the state to solve economic problems like poverty and joblessness. Rohan wants to protect 'money', which he believes is a public institution that needs protecting!

    Also interestingly, the goals of the STABLE Act and DeFi are highly similar, yet are opposing in their strategies for achieving these goals. 

    Tune into the conversation to learn about a diversity of perspectives regarding how to protect money!

    The STABLE Act:
    https://tlaib.house.gov/media/press-releases/tlaib-garcia-and-lynch-stableact

    Coin Center's comment on the STABLE Act:
    https://www.coincenter.org/the-unintended-consequences-of-the-stable-act/

    ------
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    Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research.

    Disclosure. From time-to-time we may add links in this channel to products we use. We may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. We'll always disclose when this is the case

    16 - What's an Etherean? | Nic Carter

    16 - What's an Etherean? | Nic Carter

    Episode: #16
    June 8, 2020

    Nic Carter is one of our favorite writers in crypto. He's shaped our thoughts on many subjects over the years. Now we got to sit down and talk the challenging stuff. The stuff typical podcasts never as him...we dive right in.

    He's a bitcoin yes...is he an Etherean? He's bullish on stablecoins...is he bullish ETH value accrual? He thinks free banking is good...does he think Maker is good?

    Nic believe in bitcoin values...does he believe in bankless values?

    This episode is jam packed with insights.

    Covered:

      • Is Nic an Etherean?
      • What does Etherean even mean?
      • Are stablecoins good or bad for ETH?
      • Why the entire point is blockspace demand
      • How economically dense transactions win
      • Settlement assurances & property rights
      • Why crypto banks aren't all bad
      • Emerging digital nation states
      • Will this bankless thing work?

    Plus Ryan and David discuss:

    • How David got pepper sprayed last weekend
    • Bankless as an anti-authoritarian movement
    • Building it up not burning it down

    Join us next Monday for a fresh episode!

    -----

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    Resources discussed:

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    1. Read some Nic Carter articles! (see above)
    2. Catch up on previous episodes (#2, #7, #12)
    3. Pump Bankless by giving us a 5-star review on iTunes!

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    SotN#26: Defending our Nodes w/ Coin Center's Jerry Brito and Peter Van Valkenburgh

    SotN#26: Defending our Nodes w/ Coin Center's Jerry Brito and Peter Van Valkenburgh

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    💳 MONOLITH - GET THE HOLY GRAIL OF BANKLESS VISA CARDS https://bankless.cc/monolith

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    Defending Crypto from the STABLE Act | Coin Center's Jerry Brito and Peter Van Valkenburgh

    Coin Center is a non-profit organization focused on public policy isues facing public blockchains like Bitcoin and Ethereum.

    While Bitcoin and Ethereum are unstoppable internet networks, Nation States can still mediate our relationship with them, and therefore fighting the regulatory fight is extremely important!

    Coin Center recently opened up their Gitcoin Grant https://gitcoin.co/grants/1668/coin-center-is-educating-policy-makers-about-publ which has received an outpouring of support.

    Maybe it has to do with the STABLE Act? This act was recently introduced by Rashida Tlaib and others, in an attempt to add regulatory oversight to those that issue and leverage stablecoins.

    We bring on Jerry Brito and Peter Van Valkenburgh to help us understand the perspective coming out of the STABLE Act, and its implications to our industry.

    Coin Center's website: https://www.coincenter.org/

    The STABLE Act: https://tlaib.house.gov/media/press-releases/tlaib-garcia-and-lynch-stableact

    Coin Center's Gitcoin Grant: https://gitcoin.co/grants/1668/coin-center-is-educating-policy-makers-about-publ

    Preston Byrne's blog post on the STABLE Act: https://prestonbyrne.com/blog/

    ------

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    Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research.

    Disclosure. From time-to-time we may add links in this channel to products we use. We may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. We'll always disclose when this is the case

    122 - Crypto's Bull Shark | Kevin O'Leary (Mr. Wonderful)

    122 - Crypto's Bull Shark | Kevin O'Leary (Mr. Wonderful)

    ✨ DEBRIEF ✨ | Ryan & David's Unfiltered Thoughts on the Episode

    https://shows.banklesshq.com/p/122-kevin 

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    Just a few years ago, Mr. Wonderful was a crypto bear shark. Fast forward to today, he has investments in over 32 cryptocurrencies and projects. He’s even evangelizing crypto in Washington and all over the world!

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    📣 METAMASK | The Easiest Buy in Crypto
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    ------
    Topics Covered:

    0:00 Intro
    5:27 Mr. Wonderful in Washington
    9:13 Will the Government Get it Right?
    12:31 Convincing the Skeptics
    18:44 Kevin’s Crypto Portfolio
    25:15 The Bull Shark on the Bear Market
    28:06 Legislation Obstacles
    30:40 Advice For New Crypto Users
    35:13 Kevin O’Leary’s Crypto Brand
    37:48 What Happens Next?
    42:12 WonderFi
    44:11 Closing & Disclaimers

    ------
    Resources:

    Kevin O’Leary
    https://twitter.com/kevinolearytv 

    WonderFi
    https://www.wonder.fi/ 

    -----
    Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research.

    Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here:
    https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/p/bankless-disclosures