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    Building Hope: Part 1

    en-caJune 18, 2023
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    About this Episode

    Therapist, and Building Hope Producer, George Passmore, joins us to discuss the realities that motivated him and Building Hope project partners to create the Building Hope YouTube video https://youtu.be/0BFiCM1Qlmk .

    George shares three themes that shaped the creation of Building Hope: navigating emotional pain from unresolved trauma, navigating physical pain from injury, and a 'work hard/play hard' culture. George shares a personal connection that drove his desire to start the conversation amongst trades peers.

    Daniel confers with George about his personal journey, and things he didn't even know were there. George helps us understand "the refrigerator hum" going on in the background that prevents us from turning in to the cause of our pain.
    https://www.tradespodcast.com/

    Off The Clock Toolbox Talk
    Men forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.
    Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.

    Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com.
    You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card.
    Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

    Recent Episodes from Off the Clock Toolbox Talk

    Shayne's Story

    Shayne's Story

    Shayne Taylor, Corporate Director of HSE at The Gisborne Group joins Karen and guest co-host, Trevor Botkin, to talk about his personal experiences with mental health and substance use. Uniquely, Shayne’s adulthood career path fluctuated between the construction trades and psychological care supports in mental health and substance use services, while his own binge drinking, substance use and associated harms carried on for decades. Shayne’s experiences in these two radically different fields ultimately led him to safety work in construction where he’s now a strong advocate for meeting regular people where they’re at, opening the door to better quality of life through human connection.

    This episode contains mention of childhood sexual abuse, explicit drug use, and description of an overdose experience. 

    Off The Clock Toolbox Talk
    Men forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.
    Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.

    Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com.
    You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card.
    Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

    Psychedelic Surprise

    Psychedelic Surprise

    Continuing the conversation from “Curious AF”, Daniel and Karen talk with Mike Mathers who demystifies psychedelic therapy and the incredible results of clinical trials ongoing amidst a grey psychedelic market in Canada. Mike warns against covertly accessing psychedelics without clinical supports as psychedelics release undigested emotions that can be terrifying and even damaging if the user has spent a lot of time and effort avoiding undigested emotions that they didn’t know that they had. 

    Mike discloses his experiences of video game and cannabis addiction as a numbing response to the undigested emotions he had from divorce and loss of connection with his three young children. Mike articulates that when we can’t face painful feelings, they don’t die, they turn into zombies. Psychedelics are medicines of grief and love and help us face the painful feelings, and give us a chance to process them, arriving at self-forgiveness, ultimately allowing ourselves to move forward and grow.  Mike points out how its important to “build a Temple of Regret” and visit it often, not to ruminate in the past, but to look, eyes wide open with curiosity, at how past painful experiences have hurt us, and then use that information to help us grow and move into meaning and our calling in life.  

    Like Karen, you too might be surprised at the unexpected gems and hacks around trauma and unwanted emotions in this episode of Off the Clock Toolbox Talk.

    Off The Clock Toolbox Talk
    Men forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.
    Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.

    Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com.
    You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card.
    Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

    Curious AF!

    Curious AF!

    Therapist Mike Mathers joins Daniel and Karen to talk about his new book coming out in 2024, Curious AF. Mike sets us up to understand how the human mind operates as a social entity that needs to belong to a group, and influences us to operate to avoid shame, particularly childhood shame that we can’t even remember, but that our subconscious still accesses to inform our daily thoughts & decisions.

    Mike talks about his common friend who is always there for him, “I’m a Fucking Idiot”, and how we have a relationship with “I’m a Fucking Idiot” and we don’t even know it. Daniel asks if all addictions are driven by shame. Mike says he calls shame “unconscious unworthiness”. He draws a link to feelings as data that provide information about our lives and what’s missing in terms of emotional regulation, social connection and meaning and purpose.

    Mike goes on to explain that the antidote to shame is to get curious about it using “I wonder…” questions, whose answer doesn’t matter because you can’t be judgmental and curious at the same time. Curiosity changes what's going on in our mind and body and gets us out of shame. 

    Follow along with Karen who gets “therapized” in this episode. Early listener reviews have characterized Curious AF as a free half hour of damn good therapy.

    Find Mike Mathers and information about his book, Curious AF, at https://www.wellnessevolved.ca. 

    Off The Clock Toolbox Talk
    Men forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.
    Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.

    Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com.
    You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card.
    Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

    Random Recovery Talk

    Random Recovery Talk

    Trevor, Kale and Karen drift through some random conversation on subtle aspects of the recovery journey. Kale discusses that recovery isn’t easy, but as you begin to feed yourself, you get strong AF. Trevor remembers how tied he was to his negative identities as a tradesman. Kale shares the energy that is brought to him when he opens his heart to the opportunities that recovery brings, even in the hours right before recording the podcast.  Trevor remembers searching out recovery stories when he knew he needed to get off the ride but didn’t know how. He acknowledges that we just need to talk more openly with each other about what’s really going on, and what we’re learning and understanding as men.

    Karen shares her emotional expertise: that emotions are just there to help you figure out what’s going on, and what to do about it. Trevor reflects on his frequently asked question, “if we’re so fucking tough, why can’t we talk about our feelings?”

    The group discusses Johann Hari’s quote, “The opposite of addiction is not sobriety. The opposite of addiction is connection,” connection to self and others, and wtf is self love? And how do you get it? Trevor brings in the role of spirituality [not religion] in understanding self love. 

    Karen adds her post-conversation thoughts that recovery is actually about leadership of self. Recovery is social; we don’t recover in isolation. Recovery is vulnerability that transforms into leadership.

    Off The Clock Toolbox Talk
    Men forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.
    Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.

    Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com.
    You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card.
    Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

    Ditch the Tough. Keep the Love. (A Mom's Journey Toward Change in Policy, Practice and Politics)

    Ditch the Tough. Keep the Love. (A Mom's Journey Toward Change in Policy, Practice and Politics)

    Daniel chats with podcast project partner, Kat Wahamaa from Mom’s Stop the Harm about losing her twenty-five year old son Joseph to the unregulated drug crisis, and about the unintentional and intentional harms that are taking place in Canada, from decision makers in Ottawa to families sitting around their tables at home. Kat points out how the drug poisoning crisis is traumatizing an entire generation of children whose parents have been killed by unregulated drugs, including Joseph’s two young sons.

    Kat expresses her anger at some politicians’ willful obfuscation to frame safe supply as the cause of approximately 23,000 deaths in Canada since 2020. Daniel and Kat discuss the political polarization of harm reduction versus abstinence-based treatment that aren’t opposites at all, but part of the same spectrum of treatment for a dangerous disease.

    The conversation turns to the moralizing that happens to humans who use particular drugs. Kat says the real criminality is with the politicians that continue to allow thousands of people to die by refusing to create safe supply because it doesn’t support their political standing. She believes that the majority of Canadians do not moralize drug use, but the only education many Canadians receive on drug use is media propaganda that is not connected to any actual evidence or research, but is a relic of twentieth century American political rhetoric.

    Daniel and Kat agree that keeping people alive, and using drugs, is more important than trying to stop people from using drugs and having them die.

    Daniel asks what has changed since the beginning of the “overdose crisis” when Joseph was killed. Kat considers that people are tested, but then are sanctioned for testing positive. Men in the trades don’t trust the confidentiality of accessing their Employee Assistance Programs (EAP’s). Employers still have very long shifts in order to make project deadlines. Some changes that have happened are the Building Hope video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BFiCM1Qlmk ,  the Tailgate Toolkit https://thetailgatetoolkit.ca/  and Off the Clock Toolbox Talk https://www.tradespodcast.com/ . But men in the trades, friends of Joseph’s, are still dying. Young trades people in the 25-35 age range are going to more funerals than weddings.  

    Kat talks about the national work of Mom’s Stop The Harm, whose primary role is advocacy, but also support groups like Holding Hope https://www.momsstoptheharm.com/holding-hope-support-groups  and Healing Hearts https://www.momsstoptheharm.com/healing-hearts-groups .

    Kat and Daniel discuss some of the shame-based narratives and practices that are actually harming vulnerable folks, leaving them with no other option for relief except substance use. They include the regretful, but common use of  ‘tough love’ as well as abstinence-only movements that leave the person to struggle with the weight of their own trauma on their own shoulders until they hit ‘rock bottom’ when ‘rock bottom’ may actually be death.

     Kat finishes with “we need a fence at the top of the cliff, not an ambulance at the bottom of it.”

    Off The Clock Toolbox Talk
    Men forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.
    Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.

    Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com.
    You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card.
    Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

    Rig Life (and other tough work sites)

    Rig Life (and other tough work sites)

    An expanded part of Kale’s Story, Trevor Botkin and Kale Moth discuss the specifics of working on an oil rig and other tough work sites. Belonging and paychecks pull us in. Identity and pride in hard work keep us there. Kale says, “That much time spent with the same 4 or 5 guys… you’re spending more time with them than your actual family. That group almost becomes your family… You get a full-time job, and a part-time relationship. And you just gotta understand, that’s the way its going to be.” Trevor talks about the guilt he had about his family getting the table scraps of his life and energy, but the balance was his family had all the shiny things they needed. Trevor describes an oil patch colleague who struggles with the extreme change of culture between spending time on his crew and coming home to his wife. 

    Karen shares her perspective as a partner of a tradesman who was consumed by a demanding work life. Trevor confirms the limits of maintaining a healthy relationship under these demands. Kale describes the extreme hours required of him to continue to be part of his crew and what people turn to, to find fulfillment within the long hours, including short on-site clips of Kale on his rig.

    Kale talks about how the people in the industry need to change, and that younger guys are refusing to sacrifice everything like the generations before them did. Trevor comments on his observations that younger folks coming into the industry are not willing to break their backs and things are changing, but the older guard are not able to change with the young guys, and the end result is the old guard suddenly don’t feel like they fit in anymore, and that loss of safety and community contributes to substance use in the older population. The industry is also changing in that it is now required to accommodate their workforce to recover from mental health and substance use issues. Trevor says his fantasy is that employers start having this conversation in a different way, training supervisors in how to deal with all types of health in a strategic and regular way.

    The crew ties up the conversation getting a tutorial on growing beards and goatees. Karen shares when her ex-husband and his crew identified as Plumbers of the Caribbean, getting through the day by singing ‘stupid-ass pirate songs’ and Trevor and Kale agree, that’s how its done.

    Off The Clock Toolbox Talk
    Men forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.
    Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.

    Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com.
    You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card.
    Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

    Squishy Meat Bags (I Don't Have Trauma. You Have Trauma!)

    Squishy Meat Bags (I Don't Have Trauma. You Have Trauma!)

    Self-identified squishy meat bags, Jason (guest co-host), Karen (host), and Jonas (OTCTBT Steering Committee member), discuss trauma with Registered Clinical Counsellor, Sabine Sasakura. (Go to 18:51 for the squishy meat bag context). Starting with trauma referenced in the Deconstructing Your Inner Asshole episode https://www.buzzsprout.com/2207100/13213723, and including the birth of children, the crew discuss how our daily lives are affected by trauma including what the fight/flight/freeze response looks like on a work site. They discuss anger and resentment. Karen lightbulbs at the given definition of resentment: when you’re mad because you didn’t make or keep your own boundaries. Sabine helps us understand how we subconsciously experience trauma when we’re working in a place that is inherently physically or socially dangerous. Jason identifies the foundation of anger: fear, and the group squirms a bit at the truth of it. We connect to themes in Kale’s Story  https://www.buzzsprout.com/2207100/14007685 of ‘fit in or fuck off’ and how that culture can also cultivate subconscious trauma. Jonas elaborates further on how his trauma manifests into physical symptoms. The crew discuss how substances both hurt and help our symptoms and the way our understanding of substance use is changing toward medically researched supports for our trauma. The discussion wraps up with how do we change the conversation around the negative parts of this sometimes-traumatic culture? 

    Off The Clock Toolbox Talk
    Men forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.
    Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.

    Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com.
    You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card.
    Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

    Kale's Story

    Kale's Story

    Twenty-five year old Kale Moth tells his story of being swept away by life on an oil rig at the ripe old age of 18. With guest co-host Trevor Botkin, Kale explores what he thought it meant to be a man, and how his commitment to self and family rapidly deteriorated with the introduction of harder drugs that can be commonplace in the oil and gas industry. 

    Kale's deterioration led to loss of employment, and eventually loss of housing. In 2018 Kale remembers sitting in the McDonald's he frequented for free wifi, and getting the shocking news that his cousin, Cody, had passed away from drug poisoning. Eventually the Cody Anders Memorial Scholarship was established to help fund others access treatment, and Kale become the first recipient of the scholarship in his cousin's name.

    As Kale began to reconstruct his life with meaning, he realized that it was important for him to contribute back to the guys in the oil and gas industry. In place of other dealings that had previously been associated with Kale, he adopted the label of "Hope Dealer", emphasizing his acronym for HOPE: Hold on! Pain ends.

    Watch for another upcoming episode on the oil and gas industry featuring Kale and Trevor on Off the Clock Toolbox Talk.

    Off The Clock Toolbox Talk
    Men forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.
    Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.

    Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com.
    You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card.
    Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

    Season 1 Sampler

    Season 1 Sampler

    As a unique bonus episode, the Season 1 Sampler combines clips from Season 1 together with music to keep you moving at work or play. Its a great place to find which episodes of Off the Clock Toolbox Talk are the most helpful for you, your co-workers, friends and family.

    Special  thanks to supporters, Nightingale Electrical and Wesgroup Properties for hosting on-site promotions of Off the Clock Toolbox Talk, and supporting our tradespeople in the unregulated drug crisis.


    Off The Clock Toolbox Talk
    Men forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.
    Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.

    Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com.
    You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card.
    Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

    Trevor's Story

    Trevor's Story

    Trevor Botkin tells his story of recovering out loud from the superintendent's office to using alone in a basement. We start our conversation discussing what, if any, of the various initiatives addressing substance use in the trades, would have made a difference to Trevor at the height his unregulated drug use. Trevor shares his mindset: his fear of being uncovered as an imposter, feeling defeat, lack of hope, and fearing the catastrophic loss of respect that was his only reason for being. Trevor hopes that frank conversations like Off the Clock Toolbox Talk will help other men in the trades be able to connect and think, "Fuck, I know exactly what that guy is talking about."

    Trevor talks about all the rules he had for keeping his drug use balanced with his work, and how respected he was for striking that balance, until he had broken all his rules and was no longer able to function. He discusses how his self worth is still wrapped up in "what I produce for other people". He hopes other guys in construction will join him and Off the Clock Toolbox Talk in finding a better way as we have access to technology to communicate our experiences and learning with each other, like we never have had before. Trevor does his best impression of himself as a crusty old construction worker who is resistant to exploring new pathways.

    Trevor hopes our construction leaders can say to all their employees, "I want the best things for you... get to a safe space so you can come back to us." He suggests that men in the trades might be surprised to find more of an audience to talk about emotional hardship amongst their peers than they think, but they'll never know if they don't speak their truths first.

    Parts of Trevor's story can also be found in Building Hope: Substance Use in the Trades:
     
    Building Hope: Substance Use in the Trades - YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BFiCM1Qlmk
    &
    Building Hope: Trevor's Spotlight - YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JBA7l68u9Y

    Trevor is now the proud General Manager for non-profit Herowork Victoria:
    HeroWork — HeroWork Victoria 
    https://victoria.herowork.com/

    Off The Clock Toolbox Talk
    Men forging health in the unregulated drug crisis, through real f**king talk.
    Learn more about the podcast series at TradesPodcast.com.

    Please give us your honest feedback by completing our anonymous survey at tradespodcast.com.
    You'll be given the opportunity to enter our monthly draw for a $200 grocery card.
    Thanks for supporting Off The Clock Toolbox Talk.

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