Building the Bridge Between Business and Legal - Dan Hendy

(0:00:15) - Alternative Legal Service Providers

Monica Zent shares her journey of pioneering ALSPs, addressing pain points of traditional legal models and fostering understanding through thought leadership.

(0:10:05) - Contracting Process Challenges and Solutions

Contract management challenges, need for structured process, legal ops role, phased approach, and potential benefits of external support.

(0:16:10) - Legal Operations and Change Management

Legal operations assess and improve contracting processes by interviewing business teams, addressing change management and corporate culture, and considering existing technology.

(0:21:04) - Contract Heroes Sponsored by Koho Consulting

Contract management, CLM tools, expert guidance, and consulting services are crucial for seamless operations and long-term success.

--------- EPISODE CHAPTERS WITH FULL SUMMARIES ---------

(0:00:15) - Alternative Legal Service Providers (10 Minutes)

This chapter features monica Zent, founder and CEO at ZENT Law, who shares her journey of pioneering one of the first Alternative Legal Service Providers (ALSPs) over 20 years ago. We explore the initial challenges she faced in educating the marketplace and the value proposition of ALSPs. Monica discusses how she addressed the pain points of traditional legal service models by introducing innovative delivery options like subscriptions and dedicated support, well before the terms LegalOps or ALSP were widely recognized. Additionally, we touch upon the surprising early adoption of ALSPs by not only forward-thinking tech companies but also more traditional industries like insurance and utilities, drawn by the potential for cost savings. Monica also sheds light on how thought leadership in legal operations over the past decade has helped in fostering a better understanding of ALSPs and their benefits across various sectors.

(0:10:05) - Contracting Process Challenges and Solutions (6 Minutes)

This chapter examines the complexities and challenges of contract management within organizations, emphasizing the importance of a structured process and legal operations function. We explore the common issues that companies face, such as prolonged contract cycles, stakeholder mismanagement, and missed opportunities due to inadequate data harnessing. I discuss the necessity of conducting a thorough assessment to identify pain points and bottlenecks and how creating a phased approach for a future state plan can lead to more realistic and achievable outcomes. We also touch upon the critical role of legal ops in driving process changes and cultural buy-in for contracting processes, as well as the potential benefits of leveraging dedicated support from external legal ops professionals. The execution of a well-thought-out plan is underscored as the key to improving contract management and realizing cost savings and efficiency gains.

(0:16:10) - Legal Operations and Change Management (5 Minutes)

This chapter explores the crucial role of legal operations in assessing and improving contracting processes within a company. We discuss the importance of interviewing business teams outside the legal department, such as sales, procurement, finance, and marketing, to identify gaps and potential areas for automation, like self-service tools for NDAs. Additionally, we touch on the challenges of executing these assessments, emphasizing the significance of change management and the impact on company culture. We consider how to address concerns from staff who might fear for their job security during these evaluations, and the necessity of finding team members who are receptive to change. The conversation also covers the importance of appropriate messaging and understanding corporate culture to successfully implement new strategies. Lastly, we highlight the need to consider existing technology and the specific goals of an organization before proposing new solutions. For those interested in learning more about legal operations and the discussed strategies, we provide information on how to connect with our guest and their company, ZENT.

(0:21:04) - Contract Heroes Sponsored by Coho Consulting (0 Minutes)

This chapter marks the conclusion of another engaging session where we had the pleasure of exchanging insights with our esteemed guest. We touched upon various aspects of contract management and the nuances that can make or break the effectiveness of these systems within organizations. The importance of finding a Contract Lifecycle Management (CLM) tool that fits an organization's unique needs like a glove was underscored, highlighting that whether dealing with procurement or sales, the right tool can streamline processes and ensure seamless operations. Our discussion reiterated the value of expert guidance in navigating the CLM landscape, emphasizing how consulting services, such as those offered by our sponsor Coho Consulting, can be instrumental in tailoring a CLM solution to an organization's specific requirements for long-term success.

What We Discuss:

• [00:22] - Introduction to James Peacock and his background
• [2:06] - Understanding what the business wants vs. what employees want from in-house innovation and how technology enables change
• [9:51] - How to get other departments involved in CLM implementation
• [12:55] - Aligning the goals of commercial and legal teams for better change management

Notable Quotes:

• [10:48] - “Pick someone that has a 100% view in their mind that this will be successful. They have no problem with it at all. They’re convinced it’s the right technology. And then, pick someone that absolutely hates it. And, by the end of an implementation, if you’ve managed to turn that person that really didn’t like the idea of it into saying, ‘I can see this. I get this. I can see the proof point of this technology,’ you’ve done it!” - James
• [17:40] - “Trying to join up the organization through all those three. It’s about communication. It’s about understanding the roles and how important those roles are to the future viability of the business. Without sales, there’s no revenue, you could argue. Without legal, there’s no business because if you signed everything that came through your legal front door, there’s a chance you’d be in some hot water.” - James

Useful Resources & Links:

• ThoughtRiver Website
• James Peacock on LinkedIn
• The Contract Heroes Podcast
  • on Apple Podcasts
  • on Spotify
• The Contract Heroes Official Website
• Marc Doucette on LinkedIn
• Pepe Toriello on LinkedIn

WHAT WE DISCUSS:

• [00:22] - Introduction to Laurie Erhlich
• [00:41] - What is Datadog?
• [01:42]- Education as a Common Contracting Pain Point
• [08:43] -The risks and mitigations of contracts
• [10:02] -Automating contract review
• [11:18] -Standardizing NDAs and using technology for review
• [17:58] - The category of contracts for business stakeholders
• [18:35] - Enabling teams to focus on their preferences

NOTABLE QUOTES:

• [01:40] “I think it's education. I think it's making sure that everybody actually understands what we're contracting about... this lack of understanding really makes it impossible to close the contract when the parties aren't coming from the same position " - Laurie
• [05:06] “We have a contracting effort, you on our website and it's actually attached to our standard form contract that explains what our business is so that the procurement or legal person receiving the contract understands in more like not business speak, but in legal procurement speak what it is that they're buying in legalese, exactly.”- Laurie
• [09:01] “You don't need perfect contracts. Most contract disputes don't happen in court" - Laurie
• [13:46] “I try not to change things for the organization as a whole. I try to change things for my team in a way that benefits everybody in the organization.” -Laurie

USEFUL RESOURCES & LINKS:

• Data Dog Website
• Laurie Erhlich on LinkedIn
• The Contract Heroes Podcast
  • on Apple Podcasts
  • on Spotify
• The Contract Heroes Official Website
• Marc Doucette on LinkedIn
• Pepe Toriello on LinkedIn

WHAT WE DISCUSS:

• [00:02] - Introduction to Mark Ross and his role at Deloitte
• [06:37] - The importance of involving stakeholders for successful contract management technology implementation
• [10:57] - Readiness and preparation for CLM implementation
• [14:05] - The value drivers of process efficiencies in contracting
• [15:32] - Quantifying the savings from risk avoidance in contract compliance

NOTABLE QUOTES:

• [10:58] - “It's crucial that organizations take a moment to actually take stock of the people that they employ, the processes that they leverage today, and legal business services at Deloitte is laser-focused on helping our legal departments focus on those areas and then, of course, enjoy the benefits of that promised land of technological utopia as well.” - Mark

USEFUL RESOURCES & LINKS:

• Deloitte Website
• Mark Ross on LinkedIn
• The Contract Heroes Podcast
  • on Apple Podcasts
  • on Spotify
• The Contract Heroes Official Website
• Marc Doucette on LinkedIn
• Pepe Toriello on LinkedIn

WHAT WE DISCUSS:

• [00:33] - How procurement can improve their relationship with legal
• [04:50] - The concept of a negotiation playbook
• [09:40] - The importance of standardizing templates and intake protocols
• [10:16] - The role of lawyers in template selection and the impact on the procurement process
• [11:17] - Dynamic template creation
• [13:26] - Triage and work queue management
• [20:43] - The importance of a robust contract repository
• [22:44] - Creating a negotiation playbook
• [28:57] - The importance of readiness and preparation for CLM implementation
• [32:08] - Training newer folks on legal terms
• [34:00] - Collaboration between sourcing and legal departments
• [37:55] - Challenges with control from general counsel
• [41:51] - The challenges of implementing Agiloft  in the healthcare industry
• [42:43] - The importance of getting stakeholders excited and involved in the implementation process
• [43:43] - Resources for Agiloft implementation

NOTABLE QUOTES:

• [02:50] - “A lot of contract management has been focused on indirect procurement and the buy side. The sell-side has also been a focus. But historically we've noticed that it's actually born from the buy side.” - Prashant
• [03:43] - “The relationship between procurement and legal sometimes has bordered on adversarial because business drivers for procurement organizations are not just how do I get the best price and consolidate vendors, but it's really about managing categories from a strategic perspective .” - Prashant
• [08:51] - “Most CLM systems of basic functionality will have the ability to have a playbook in place with a clause library, fallback provisions that you can select a way to tag those particular provisions with different levels of risk or desirability from a company's perspective.” - Prashant 
• [11:36] - “Sometimes intake can drive that dynamic creation of a template using clauses that are ultimate provisions that you can use having a base template and then using alternate provisions based on the intake requirements to create something that's purpose-built for the transaction.” - Prashant
• [21:00] - “It takes a pretty high degree of maturity as an organization to have a robust single source of truth repository that's high integrity that people rely on.” - Prashant
• [30:52] “If there's a degree of preparation that involves these kinds of collaborative discussions, it creates a good foundation for trust between the organizations.” - Prashant

USEFUL RESOURCES & LINKS:

• Agiloft Website
• Prashant Dubey on LinkedIn
• The Contract Heroes Podcast
  • on Apple Podcasts
  • on Spotify
• The Contract Heroes Official Website
• Marc Doucette on LinkedIn
• Pepe Toriello on LinkedIn

WHAT WE DISCUSS:

• [00:00:31] - Nikki's journey to becoming CEO of Legaltech Hub
• [00:02:47] - Notable changes in legal technology and their impact on enterprise legal teams
• [00:06:56] - The role of AI in contract management
• [00:13:06] - The inevitability of AI integration in contract products
• [00:16:15] - Enhancing self-service workflows and integrating AI
• [00:19:39] - Anticipated technological advancements for organizations investing in AI
• [00:21:25] - Upcoming events hosted by Legaltech Hub

NOTABLE QUOTES:

• [00:03:00] - “We're really moving from the very large systems that do absolutely everything across the contract lifecycle and need to be implemented across all phases of the contract lifecycle to more modular, nimble solutions that are available for teams.” - Nikki
• [00:06:01] - “I think a CLM platform has to be nimble enough in order to be able to accommodate the different feature configurations or customizations for the particular industry into which it's being implemented.” - Nikki
• [00:13:54] - “AI doesn't necessarily lend huge efficiency at all stages of the contract lifecycle. It's a ‘nice-to-have’ in a lot of areas rather than a ‘must-have’.” - Nikki
• [00:18:05] - “You have to have thought out the user journey and have an established interface in order to make it easy to integrate AI and for the user to see the benefit of that.” - Nikki

USEFUL RESOURCES & LINKS:

• Legaltech Hub Website
• Nikki Shaver on LinkedIn
• The Contract Heroes Podcast
  • on Apple Podcasts
  • on Spotify
• The Contract Heroes Official Website
• Marc Doucette on LinkedIn
• Pepe Toriello on LinkedIn

WHAT WE DISCUSS:

• [00:00:40] - Introduction to Alistair and his company SYKE
• [00:01:15] - The birth of a contracting Solution
• [00:02:32] - Reducing contract cycle time
• [00:11:53] - The importance of investment and implementation
• [00:13:09] - The potential pitfalls of underestimating implementation efforts
• [00:19:33] - Benefits of a centralized contract repository
• [00:22:37] - The value of engaging a reputable consulting firm
• [00:25:00] - Reputation and changes in the market
• [00:30:34] - The transformative impact of AI in the legal sector
• [00:34:35] - Disruption in legal advisory services
• [00:35:56] - The role of AI in migrating and extracting legacy data

NOTABLE QUOTES:

• [00:03:44] - “We managed to reduce the average contract cycle time down from over 50 days to five and a half days, and it was really impactful, had a big commercial benefit, and I kind of just fell in love with it really.” - Alistair
• [00:07:17] - “I saw just the power of how, you know, for a few simple questions, you could put together a robust contract.” - Alistair
• [00:21:30] - “We don't want to be associated with failed projects and products. Reputation is hugely important.”- Alistair 
• [00:30:34] - “It's moving super fast and I am incredibly excited about what we're going to be able to achieve in short order through this new technology.”- Alistair
• [00:35:42] - “I really do, I don't think it will be long before the answers are as good as the lawyers or better, and that's going to be hugely disruptive to the legal market.” - Alistair

USEFUL RESOURCES & LINKS:

• SYKE Website
• Alistair Maiden on LinkedIn
• The Contract Heroes Podcast
  • on Apple Podcasts
  • on Spotify
• Marc Doucette on LinkedIn
• Pepe Toriello on LinkedIn

In this episode of the Contract Heroes Podcast, we are delighted to have three distinguished guests with us - Mary O'Carroll, Chief Community Officer at Ironclad and former Google Director Legal Ops and CLOC President; Laura Frederick, founder of How to Contract and ContractsCon, and a Lawyer; and Debbie Hoffman, previously Managing Associate General Counsel at Western Union, and currently a board director and executive leader with expertise in fintech, real estate, mortgage lending, and blockchain.

During our conversation, we discuss contract management implementations and finding a successful system with Mary. We emphasize the importance of taking a phased approach and starting small with pilot projects. Our discussion also covers the decision of whether to start with the legal department or procurement contracts, the role of consultants in the pre-implementation process, and effectively monitoring and managing contracts for compliance and value maximization. Laura joins as an expert in negotiating contracts, discussing the concerns of commercial lawyers and the trend of over-contracting. The episode concludes with Debbie sharing her experience with implementing a new tool at Western Union and the challenges faced. 

WHAT WE DISCUSS:

• [01:15] - The importance of phased approaches for successful implementations
• [03:06] - Starting with legal or procurement in implementing contract management solutions
• [03:22] The importance of finding the right starting point for implementing contract management solutions
• [04:53] - The role of consultants in the pre-implementation process and the need for well-defined processes
• [05:38] - Recommendations for organizations to ensure effective monitoring and management of their contracts
• [06:56] - AI and its impact on contract management
• [08:44] - Laura Frederick's recent event and her work as the founder of “How to Contract”
• [09:51] - Commercial lawyers’ frequently asked questions regarding CLM
• [11:01] - Strategies to reverse the over-contracting trend
• [11:35] - The importance of training for effective contract negotiation skills
• [13:34] - Automation of contract negotiations and the need for human decision-making in complex contracts
• [19:43] - Debbie’s background and involvement in CLM implementation while at Western Union
• [20:52] - The CLM vendor selection process
• [22:07] - Debbie’s challenges with the current tool
• [25:08] - The importance of building playbooks and understanding client needs 

NOTABLE QUOTES:

• [00:01:19] - “The idea of getting all your stakeholders aligned at the same time and trying to roll out one solution and saying, hey, this is going to be good for everyone is honestly a bit unrealistic. You're never going to have everyone on the same page.” - Mary  
• [00:01:44] - “Change management is hard. This is something that affects so many parts of the company. So, instead of trying, I think to get everyone aligned and to spend a year doing stakeholder alignment, the requirements gathering change management process is to just start small.” - Mary
• [00:16:24] - “If you can, train the people who are doing the contracts and negotiate them on those real risks, not the academic risk, but what is this company with these products and services? What do we really worry about then that's going to be such an important step towards enablement and getting to shorter contracts?” - Laura

USEFUL RESOURCES & LINKS:

• Ironclad Website
• Mary O'Carroll on LinkedIn
• Laura Frederick on LinkedIn
• How to Contract Website
• Contracts Con Website
• Debbie Hoffman on LinkedIn
• Western Union Website
• The Contract Heroes Podcast
  • on Apple Podcasts
  • on Spotify
• The Contract Heroes Official Website
• Marc Doucette on LinkedIn
• Pepe Toriello on LinkedIn
• Pepe Toriello on Twitter

During our conversation, Roma shares her journey from law school to becoming a contracts manager and eventually a general counsel. She explains how she started her own contracts tech company, CrushContracts, and developed tools like the Global NDA, ICE, and Zoey to address contract management pain points. Roma emphasizes the importance of solving problems and adapting to changing times. We also discuss the challenges of getting buy-in from team members and ensuring adoption of contract management tools. 

WHAT WE DISCUSS:

• [00:19] - Introduction to Roma Khan, CEO of CrushContracts 
• [00:52] - Roma's background and journey to becoming the “contracts queen”
• [02:57] - The main issues Roma faced as a general counsel and recommendations for contract management
• [06:32] - Overview of the tools developed by CrushContracts, including Global NDA, ICE, and Zoey
• [09:14] -  Challenges in contract management
• [10:13] - Approach to contract management: understanding the purpose of contracts as business documents 
• [16:14] - Importance of organizing contracts
• [17:05] How to optimize workflow processes and conduct an internal audit for legacy contracts
• [19:05] - Getting buy-in from team members and utilizing existing resources for project implementation
• [21:12] Challenges of adoption and change management when implementing new technology
• [24:45] Recommendations for addressing adoption and change management challenges in CLM implementation

NOTABLE QUOTES:

• [00:03:44] - “I built a global registry called Global NDA where we sat down with several other attorneys and created a universally acceptable mutual NDA, and it's online now and people can just opt in and start talking to the active members.” - Roma
• [00:11:11] - “A lot of times legal departments will create instruction manuals that look like novels. They look like law school briefs. There are too many bullet points, and it's like everything I can add to it, I will add. I work the other way around. I look at it as the most simplest user in the company and if they have to execute this contract, I want them to understand the process, I want them to understand the risk, and I want them to negotiate most of this on their own. So they come to legal for the last thing, for this final approval.” - Roma
• [00:10:34] - “My overall process and ideology and contracts comes from the core belief that contracts are not legal documents. They are business documents. They have to be lawful and legally and legally binding. But with anything, you can start any business, and it has to be for a lawful purpose.” - Roma

USEFUL RESOURCES & LINKS:

• CrushContracts Website
• Roma Khan on LinkedIn
• The Contract Heroes Podcast
  • on Apple Podcasts
  • on Spotify
• The Contract Heroes Official Website
• Marc Doucette on LinkedIn
• Pepe Toriello on LinkedIn
• Pepe Toriello on Twitter