Creativity, Self-Discovery, & 'Slip': Zoe Lister-Jones Is Reinventing Hollywood

Learning from this episode of the Rich Roll podcast is the importance of stepping out of your comfort zone and trying new things in order to grow as an artist. This was highlighted through the conversation with Zoey Lister Jones, a talented actress, filmmaker, writer, producer, and director, who shared her experiences of wearing various creative hats and the unique challenges and rewards that come with each. Additionally, the episode emphasized the responsibility artists have to empower other women in the industry and create deeply authentic work. The episode was brought to you by sponsors On, Birch, and Seed, each offering exclusive discounts for listeners. On provided advanced running apparel, Birch offered a discount on their organic and sustainable mattresses, and Seed offered a discount on their science-backed probiotic and prebiotic supplement. Overall, the episode underscored the importance of continuous learning, growth, and innovation in various aspects of life, from creativity to health and wellness.

The artist discussed in this conversation has continually pushed themselves out of their comfort zone in their career, taking on new roles and responsibilities with each project. Most recently, they wrote, directed, starred in, and produced their own television series, "Slip," which they did entirely on their own due to the unique circumstances of working with Roku as a streaming service. This level of control and creative freedom was a significant experience for the artist, who had previously worked in more traditional Hollywood structures with many cooks in the kitchen. The current landscape of streaming services allows for more artistic freedom and less fear-based decision making, but it also comes with financial constraints and a potential contraction in the industry. Overall, the artist's willingness to lean into the unknown and take on new challenges has led to a successful and fulfilling career.

Roku is making bold strides in the streaming industry by producing unique and daring content, such as the NSFW series "Slip," which explores the multiverse through a female-centric lens and tackles themes of relationships, self-discovery, and sexuality. The show follows a woman named Mae Cannon, who, after cheating on her husband, finds herself transported into different parallel lives through orgasm. This fantastical premise is rooted in universal questions about happiness, freedom, and the "what ifs" of life, making it relatable to viewers despite its sci-fi and fantasy elements. The series, which was written during the pandemic, reflects the existential crises many people experienced during lockdowns and offers a wild adventure that empowers women to be vulnerable and confront their sexuality. Roku's willingness to take risks and create thought-provoking content sets it apart in the crowded streaming landscape.

The show "Slutever" explores the complexities of female sexuality through a female perspective, challenging the male gaze and objectification often seen in media. Creator and star Casey Jane Ellison shares her gratitude for the freedom to explore this topic and subvert typical representations. The show's use of an imaginative device, where orgasms transport the protagonist into alternate realities, adds a layer of reflection on the search for fulfillment and the concept of the "grass is always greener." The character's dissatisfaction with her long-term relationship and the exploration of the concept of "home" further delve into these themes. Ultimately, the show raises questions about the human desire for stability and wholeness, and the often elusive nature of finding it through material possessions or relationships. The character's journey, and by extension, the audience's, invites us to consider our own relationships with these concepts and the potential for finding fulfillment internally.

The pursuit of completion or fulfillment through external validation, be it an Academy Award or a romantic relationship, is an endless journey. This universal human trait can manifest in various forms of addiction, including love or sex addiction. Our personal choices to satisfy this hunger may be misguided, but our inherent desire for connection remains. The speaker's upbringing in a transgressive household, where she was exposed to art and personal expression, significantly influenced her worldview and her deeply personal artistic pursuits. Despite facing challenges, her parents' support and encouragement pushed her to explore the boundaries of her creativity. The experience of growing up in a tough Brooklyn neighborhood during the 80s, with its mix of danger and artistic exposure, further shaped her unique perspective. Ultimately, the speaker's journey highlights the ongoing quest for connection and self-discovery, which transcends societal expectations and personal struggles.

Unconventional upbringings and financial struggles can shape an individual's perspective and drive their creative pursuits. The speaker, who grew up witnessing their artist parents' financial hardships, initially sought stability and wealth over an artistic career. However, they eventually pursued acting and found success, even in unglamorous roles, to provide financial security. Despite their humble beginnings, they have since embraced the glamour of Hollywood while staying true to their roots. The speaker's unique perspective on the importance of financial stability and the impact of their parents' experiences on their own choices demonstrates the significance of upbringing and adversity in shaping creative paths.

Voicing Change Media, a new venture led by the speaker, is a platform for thought-provoking content featuring a range of shows. Soulboom, hosted by Rainn Wilson, explores existential questions, while Feel Better, Live More with Doctor Rangan Chatterjee offers practical health advice. The speaker's background includes indie filmmaking and acting, with notable roles in Law and Order, which served as a training ground for embodying various characters. Bridging the worlds of indie film and network television allowed the speaker to gain street cred and afford experimental projects.

Ambition and creativity go hand in hand. The speaker, who is a successful actress and writer, shares how she's used her experience in sitcoms to establish financial stability but felt a strong desire to explore her own artistic expression and avoid being pigeonholed. She shares examples of how she's used various experiences, including the pandemic, to create new works and delve into her inner emotional landscape. The speaker also emphasizes the importance of therapy in her personal growth and self-discovery. Overall, her story highlights the importance of staying true to one's creative ambitions and continuously seeking new opportunities for growth.

Group therapy offers a unique dynamic where trust and vulnerability are heightened, even with strangers. This experience can bring up family dynamics and require finding one's voice in a group setting. Group therapy has its challenges, such as dealing with jealousy and human frailty, but it also offers universality and a sense of community. The speaker's experiences with monogamy and non-monogamy in her relationships have influenced her deeply, and she questions the societal conditioning surrounding these relationship structures. While non-monogamy can be complex and chaotic, it also offers potential for greater freedom and connection. Ultimately, the speaker remains a firm believer in therapy as a tool for personal growth and self-discovery.

Non-monogamy, like any extreme experience, can offer the thrill of the new and the illicit, but it also comes with the risk of lows that can be incredibly difficult to navigate. Honesty and communication are crucial for making it work, but even with these foundations, it can be challenging to distinguish healthy pursuits from past traumas or unhealthy motivations. The allure of the new and the transgressive nature of non-monogamy can be exciting and sexy, but it also requires a deep understanding of oneself and one's motivations. From a professional perspective, the decision to hire an all-female crew for her first independent movie, "Band Aid," was a bold move to address gender inequity in media, and it came with challenges but also had a ripple effect in inspiring others to do the same.

The entertainment industry, specifically in the realm of film and television production, continues to struggle with inclusivity and representation, particularly when it comes to hiring women and individuals from underrepresented communities as directors and above-the-line roles. However, there has been a shift towards more inclusivity in storytelling and a desire for greater representation. Yet, the issue persists below the line, where teams remain predominantly homogenized. To challenge this status quo, intentional risks must be taken to hire individuals with less experience, even for high-stakes projects. This requires a willingness to push beyond comfort zones and disrupt traditional patterns. The benefits of doing so can lead to greater opportunities for innovation and excellence. It takes courage and confidence, especially for newcomers, to make bold moves in the industry. Ultimately, the fear of change and potential risks should not prevent progress towards a more inclusive and equitable industry.

Being an artist and managing the business side of a creative project are interconnected roles that require compromise and effective communication. Artists, such as directors and showrunners, need to toggle between their creative vision and administrative responsibilities. This balance can be challenging, as it involves managing people, making decisions, and ensuring that everyone's artistry is showcased. The difference between directing a movie and running a TV show lies in the scale and complexity of the project, with more episodes and a larger crew. However, the skills required for both roles overlap, including people management and clear communication. Successfully navigating these roles requires a deep understanding of both the creative and administrative aspects of a project and the ability to create an environment where everyone's vision is valued and in harmony.

The filmmaking process, even with a larger budget and an existing property, comes with its own unique challenges for independent filmmakers. For example, when Miranda July wrote and directed "Craft: Craft Legacy," she faced resistance when proposing an all-woman crew, pitched her personal story to studio executives, and dealt with more compromise and cooks in the kitchen than before. Despite these challenges, she learned to trust her abilities and was later given the protection and support she needed to create her next project, "Slip," with Roku and Dakota Johnson's company, Tea Time. July's creative process often involves a cosmic download, which can occur in liminal spaces like upon waking or sleeping, and she lets ideas incubate before bringing them to life.

The creative process varies greatly from person to person. The speaker, for instance, is a fast writer who goes through long writing sessions when inspiration strikes, takes notes and talks about ideas to stress test them, and then collaborates with a team to bring the project to fruition. During the interim, ideas are percolating, and different mediums excite her based on the story's potential and her own desire to explore new artistic territories. It's essential to grow as an artist by tackling unfamiliar challenges and not being paralyzed by fear. The speaker's success has allowed her to act in brilliant directors' films and then create her own projects, a nice moment that showcases her versatility and adaptability in the ever-evolving world of storytelling.

The acting industry is highly competitive, and opportunities are limited for actors, leading many to create their own work or write roles they're passionate about. Actors still audition for roles, even for renowned directors like Ari Aster, and sometimes receive scripts only after being offered the part. The process can be challenging, especially when directors are secretive about their scripts. However, the rewards can be significant, including the opportunity to work with talented directors and actors, and to be a part of a film that resonates with audiences. Ultimately, the passion and dedication of actors can lead to remarkable performances and memorable roles.

The film "Beautiful and Dangerous" by Ari Aster is an epic, demented dark comedy with a surrealistic and synecdoche-like quality, reminiscent of both Charlie Kaufman and the Coen Brothers. Aster's mastery of the visual cinematic language and intentionality of shots is inspiring, as is his sense of play and ability to navigate between comedy, deeply felt scenes, and horror. Working with Aster and Joaquin Phoenix was a dream come true, with Aster's complete command over his vision and a childlike energy that allowed for breathing room in terms of performance. A24, the production company behind the film, is making a big splash by trusting filmmakers in the singularity of their vision and sharpening the specificity of their work, rather than watering it down for a mass audience. The resonance of creative work is found in its specificity, not its relatability to everyone.

Creating with a specific audience or personal experience in mind can lead to more meaningful and impactful work, despite the challenges and rejections that come with the business side of creativity. It's essential to maintain confidence in your vision and keep pushing forward, even when faced with numerous rejections. The process of creating and staying true to yourself can ultimately lead to the resolution of seemingly insurmountable problems. Additionally, it's important to remember that every project encounters rejection and that it's possible to find success by distilling your story down and finding a way to make it despite the obstacles. Lastly, it's crucial to remember that even the harshest criticism or advice can sometimes lead to unexpected opportunities.

The power of encouragement and recognition from others can significantly impact an individual's confidence and career trajectory, especially for women in the film industry. A simple yet meaningful piece of advice or validation from someone in a position of influence can make all the difference in helping someone believe in their abilities and pursue their passions. The importance of such moments cannot be overstated, as they can serve as crucial turning points in someone's life and career. Moreover, the entertainment industry, and the world at large, still has a long way to go in terms of promoting equity and empowerment. The recent strides made in this regard are encouraging, but there is still much work to be done. The onus is on those in power to intentionally create opportunities for diverse voices and perspectives, not just for optics, but because they recognize the inherent value in doing so. Additionally, the ongoing conversation around sexuality and female pleasure, as exemplified by the upcoming release of "Slip," offers an opportunity to shift perspectives and challenge societal norms. It's essential to recognize the power and potential that comes with change, rather than viewing it as a threat. The entertainment industry, and the world at large, can benefit greatly from embracing new perspectives and paradigms.

We are living in a transformative time, marked by social and political upheaval, economic change, and an explosion of creative content. Amidst the challenges, there is inspiration to be found in the voices of advocates and artists pushing for progress and change. For individuals, this moment offers an opportunity to explore and express their unique creativity and voice, as a means of connection and self-discovery. Social media, while complex, can serve as a tool for finding community and overcoming feelings of alienation. Ultimately, finding a mode of expression and sharing it with others can be a powerful means of healing and connection.

Art, particularly in the form of storytelling, has the power to make us feel less alone in our experiences, even when we're in intimate relationships or going through life's challenges. This universal theme of questioning whether our lives could be better somewhere else resonates deeply with many people, especially during times of uncertainty like the post-pandemic era. The willingness to openly discuss feelings of aloneness and vulnerability is important, and art can serve as a powerful catalyst for such conversations. Zoe's work in "Slip" explores these themes and invites audiences to connect with the characters and their experiences. By sharing stories and creating art that reflects our deepest emotions, we can find comfort and a sense of community, even in our most isolating moments.