Deconstructing the Role of General Counsel with Adrian Moffatt

“I wouldn’t take it back for all the money in the world.”

That’s how Marcus Payne chooses to reflect on his role as Chief Counsel for Queensland Health during a global pandemic.

“It was a wonderful experience in terms of the pressure and what I learnt but would I choose to go back and do it again? I’m not sure!”

Now Head of Legal at Urban Utilities, Marcus clearly likes a challenge - in September he completed a bucket-list goal, swimming across the English Channel in 14 hours and 29 minutes.

“I’m a pretty firm believer that anyone can do amazing things, it’s just about having the right approach and not trying to do too much too quickly.”

The “right approach” to something as difficult as swimming The Channel includes training in the cold and dark from three in the morning, ahead of a busy work schedule. But most importantly, it involves a team of motivators.

“You’re not allowed to wear a watch either so I very quickly found myself surrendering to the fact that I didn’t know where I was, I didn’t know how long I’d been out there, I didn’t know how long to finish - I just resigned myself to be very present in each moment.”

In this final episode of Friends in Law for 2022, Marcus explains the lessons such a huge physical challenge share with the daily challenges of life and career, the role senior lawyers must play in a post-pandemic office and the slowly tipping scales of work/life balance that can only come when you truly enjoy what you do.

TOPICS

• LinkedIn for Lawyers (and all other professionals)  
• Corporate Athlete 
• Career planning
• Goal Setting
• Legal careers  
• In-house legal career 

Enjoyed the podcast? Share and Enjoy! 

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• If you want to talk about your career in law reach out to us here  
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Credits

Host: Alex Correa - Career Coach in Law

Brought to you by Alex Correa Executive  

With thanks to our guest : Marcus Payne

Friends in Law is edited and engineered by Cold Ghost (aka Fletcher Babb)  Produced by Bern Young 

What’s your first thought when you get a notification from LinkedIn saying “You appeared in X searches this week”?

Do you want to know immediately who they are, why they’re interested in you?

Perhaps a more pressing question is - what did they discover when they searched for you?

As a LinkedIn specialist, Karen Hollenbach says the platform is so much more than Facebook for professionals and refutes that it’s even part of the social media cohort.

“It can be a fantastic source of information, a place to learn, a place to stay connected, a place to be found and a place to manage your online reputation.”

Karen is the first non-lawyer to feature in the Friends in Law podcast because her insights into this powerful platform are helpful no matter what age or stage your legal profession is at.

From thought leadership (“is not for everyone”) to the basics of using good photos (“you wouldn’t walk into a room with a paper bag on your head!”) to cheering others on from the sidelines even if you’re not ready to commit the time to regular posts.

“The reason why a lot of people approach myself and my team is because they see people who aren’t as competent as them, shining brighter on LinkedIn.”

“I don’t like comparison, I think it’s really dangerous but the reality is most of the clients we work with have completely under-represented themselves online - that’s a career limiting move.”

TOPICS

• LinkedIn for Lawyers (and all other professionals)  
• Personal branding and marketing   
• Career planning
• Managing your personal online brand
• Legal careers  

Enjoyed the podcast? Share and Enjoy! 

• Please don't forget to leave a rating via Apple Podcasts
• Never miss a drop by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify
• If you want to talk about your career in law reach out to us here  
• Or why not connect with Alex on LinkedIn   

Credits

Host: Alex Correa - Career Coach in Law

Brought to you by Alex Correa Executive  

With thanks to our guest : Karen Hollenbach

Friends in Law is edited and engineered by Cold Ghost (aka Fletcher Babb)  Produced by Bern Young 

Having a conversation with someone who’s literally written the book on conversations should be daunting, shouldn’t it?

Bill Ash’s professional experience is nothing short of impressive, from globetrotting corporate lawyer to highly respected counsellor/coach and now author of “Redesigning Conversations - A Guide to Communicating Effectively in the Family, Workplace and Society.”

But what’s truly impressive is Bill’s own mood contagion - one of generosity, observation and insight. 

In this episode of Friends in Law, Bill Ash shares some of his own work and life experience, his thoughts on leadership and seniority and navigating personal and professional relationships.

 He chalks it all up to “taking notice”.

“When I look back on my career, the important things have been the relationships I’ve had in that career - you know I’ve done this, that and the other projects but it’s the relationships (that are important).” 

“I’ve been very lucky with the leaders I’ve had, they’ve probably never been to a leadership course in their life but they’re fabulous leaders because they’re human, experienced and relational.”

“I just encourage everyone to make those requests .. senior people love to be asked.”

TOPICS

• Leadership 
• In-house lawyers 
• Alternative careers
• Effective communication for life, work, and family   

Enjoyed the podcast? Share and Enjoy! 

• Please don't forget to leave a rating via Apple Podcasts
• Never miss a drop by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify
• If you want to talk about your career in law reach out to us here  
• Or why not connect with Alex on LinkedIn   

Credits

Host: Alex Correa - Career Coach in Law

Brought to you by Alex Correa Executive  

With thanks to our guest : Bill Ash

Friends in Law is edited and engineered by Cold Ghost (aka Fletcher Babb)  Produced by Bern Young 

How many times have you said or heard, everything happens for a reason?

When Kara Cook was a Judge’s associate, sitting through highly detailed cases before the Planning and Environment court, she couldn’t have foreseen that one day she’d be part of making the very decisions developers appeal.

At that time, early in her legal career, she was more concerned about matters of social justice like domestic violence and fair representation for women who’d lost their power and their voice.

Now a Brisbane City Councillor, Kara Cook’s path to politics was not via the well-worn journey of student politics or volunteers and advisors, which is one reason she wasn’t ready for the brutality.

But as you’ll hear, her legal career readied her for the fight.

“I constantly remind people around me that the political environment is not the real world and how people behave and act in that environment is not what would happen in a regular organisation.”

“You can be empathetic and still be a good leader.”

“I was never the smartest kid in the class but my husband jokes to me, that I’m like the little engine that could.”

TOPICS

• Women in politics 
• Alternative careers in the law
• Agents of change 
• Social Justice 

Enjoyed the podcast? Share and Enjoy! 

• Please don't forget to leave a rating via Apple Podcasts
• Never miss a drop by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify
• If you want to talk about your career in law reach out to us here  
• Or why not connect with Alex on LinkedIn   

Credits

Host: Alex Correa - Career Coach in Law

Brought to you by Alex Correa Executive  

With thanks to our guest : Kara Cook

Friends in Law is edited and engineered by Cold Ghost (aka Fletcher Babb)  Produced by Bern Young 

Philosopher John Dewey said, “Education is not preparation for life; education is life itself.”

For Ann-Maree David, who once imagined she’d be a teacher, studying law is how she discovered her outlet to educate.

The 2018 Agnes McWhinney Award winner is Executive Director at The College of Law where she has dedicated the past two decades to other lawyers’ career paths.

From the danger of perfectionism, to the nuances of networking, Ann-Maree tells Alex Correa about her own non-traditional legal career, her drive to boost equality and how the current generation simply won’t follow the mistakes of the past.

“We can actually be humans at work, that’s a big lesson for people to learn and if you’ve been a career lawyer for 30-50 years that’s not something you’re going to give up readily because it’s what you know.”

“That armour still exists .. We’ve seen a lot of people leave the profession over the last few decades because they couldn’t maintain that armour, it was too heavy.”

“We can be very good at our jobs but we can also accept that we are fallible humans.”

TOPICS

• Career alignment through values and purpose         
• Perfectionism in the workplace and the shift toward being our authentic selves    
• Cultivating the next generation of legal talent
• Diversity & Inclusion
• Alternative careers in law 

Enjoyed the podcast? Share and Enjoy! 

• Please don't forget to leave a rating via Apple Podcasts
• Never miss a drop by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify
• If you want to talk about your career in law reach out to us here  
• Or why not connect with Alex on LinkedIn   

Credits

Host: Alex Correa - Career Coach in Law

Brought to you by Alex Correa Executive  

With thanks to our guest : Ann-Maree David

Friends in Law is edited and engineered by Cold Ghost (aka Fletcher Babb)  Produced by Bern Young 

Suzy Cairney has seen a lot of shipping containers in her time but the most memorable one was in the foyer of a French shipping agency, transformed into a giant shark tank.

“That was brilliant advertising, you knew exactly what you were getting into when you negotiated with those guys.”

The former European Legal Counsel for the Port of Singapore, has worked in several in-house roles in Australia and overseas and is now a partner at Sparke Helmore in Brisbane.

She speaks to Alex Correa about the family priorities which saw her choose Australia over her homeland Scotland, how helping build something is better than endless litigation and why her eyes light up when she talks about supply chains!

Suzy also details the diagnosis which changed her approach without ever changing her attitude.

“I would not suggest that cancer was something anybody wants .. however, I'm actually quite grateful for the experience.”

“You do mature, maybe grow into yourself a little bit and I really think that changing perspective is something that has been a surprise for me.”

TOPICS

• Working in-house for multi-national companies 
• Practicing law in Europe, Asia, and Australia    
• Life as a law firm partner        
• Women in engineering and construction  
• Maintaining wellness while practicing law

Enjoyed the podcast? Share and Enjoy! 

• Please don't forget to leave a rating via Apple Podcasts
• Never miss a drop by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify
• If you want to talk about your career in law reach out to us here  
• Or why not connect with Alex on LinkedIn   

Credits

Host: Alex Correa - Career Coach in Law

Brought to you by Alex Correa Executive  

With thanks to our guest : Suzy Cairney

Friends in Law is edited and engineered by Cold Ghost (aka Fletcher Babb)  Produced by Bern Young 

“You don't have to do things the way people have done them for 50 to 100 years."

“We’ve got legal rules that confine us, but we don't have to be confined with the way in which we deliver those legal services.”

And with that, Helen Kay set out to create a very different law firm from the ground up.

The Managing Director of Rise Legal shares her journey from the UK to Australia, starting in one of the biggest firms and eventually working for herself as a sole-trader, only to find that what she needed, and wanted, was somewhere in between.

“It started as a niggle and that niggle was, don't like the mahogany desks, I don't like hourly rate billing, I don't like this part of it.”

“I had a goal in mind and I needed to build a network of people who I knew, liked and trusted and who were going to know, like and trust me, ready for when I wanted to start my own law firm and I knew it was going to look different this time.”

“So I didn't say no to anything. That was a sort of taboo word .. even if I was exhausted, even if I had four other things on that week, I never said no.”

TOPICS

•     Goalsetting and the business of law 
•     From big law to the evolution of new law
•     Entrepreneurship, networking and building a profile 
•     Client service and KPI's - a new measure of success!   

Enjoyed the podcast? Share and Enjoy! 

• Please don't forget to leave a rating via Apple Podcasts
• Never miss a drop by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify
• If you want to talk about your career in law reach out to us here  
• Or why not connect with Alex on LinkedIn   

Credits

Host: Alex Correa - Career Coach in Law

Brought to you by Alex Correa Executive  

With thanks to our guest : Helen Kay

Friends in Law is edited and engineered by Cold Ghost (aka Fletcher Babb)  Produced by Bern Young 

Do you remember when lawyers didn’t even have computers at their desks?

The opportunity for robotics and automation and how that will impact the future of work is an issue across all industries, including the law.

Alister Fitzgerald, CEO and founder of Field, is at the forefront, providing a digital platform that is already reshaping legal work within the property industry.

But can technology reduce the all-consuming nature of being a lawyer and make for a more sustainable, enjoyable career? 

Quotes

“I'm very interested in technology and how it can change the way things operate for the better. I'm a systems person, and not in the sense necessarily of the micro level, but I like things that should connect to work better.”

“I don’t think everyone needs to know how to be an expert software developer but the threshold to learn to do some simple coding isn't that high. And I think they're probably skills that are useful, if only to have an understanding and empathy for people who are going to be very relevant in the profession.”

“(By 2050) I can't imagine lawyers doing what lawyers do now .. but I would hope that the thinking and the intellect and the morality of the processes that find themselves into software are directed by people with similar intelligence and application in the legal profession as they do now.”

TOPICS

•     The Future of Law and automation 
•     Legal tech, client delivery, and career fulfillment 
•     Partnership, big law, and life outside of private practice
•     Lawyers who are entrepreneurs        

Enjoyed the podcast? Share and Enjoy! 

• Please don't forget to leave a rating via Apple Podcasts
• Never miss a drop by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify
• If you want to talk about your career in law reach out to us here  
• Or why not connect with Alex on LinkedIn   

Credits

Host: Alex Correa - Career Coach in Law

Brought to you by Alex Correa Executive  

With thanks to our guest : Alister Fitzgerald

Friends in Law is edited and engineered by Cold Ghost (aka Fletcher Babb)  Produced by Bern Young 

When Antonia Mercorella first turned her back on a career in law to pursue a life in the arts, she couldn’t have imagined her job title now - CEO of the Real Estate Institute of Queensland.

“I got a clerkship at a highly regarded commercial law firm in Adelaide. But I really didn't enjoy it. And I left to join the State Theatre Company.”

“I remember people saying to me, you're mad. And a few times in my career that's happened, where people have judged me and said, ‘What are you doing? You're all over the place.’"

As the first female CEO of the REIQ, Antonia is determined to right the gender imbalance in leadership and thrives on settling the disputes that inevitably brings.

QUOTES:

“I feel a responsibility now as a CEO, I have women ask me, how did you do this and how do you manage it? And I try and be really honest about the fact that it's a real challenge. You know, juggling everything is a real challenge. And there's no perfection in any of it.”

“I have mixed feelings about it. At one level, I feel extremely privileged to be the first female in 103 years. And at another level, it really disappoints me that it's taken that long for a female to lead REIQ.”

“We were labeled anti-tenant, and we were labeled as heartless. And that was challenging because I actually have a very strong social justice slant.”

“Why are you apologising for being pregnant? There's no need for an apology. And I think it's really disappointing that that occurs, and yet I've been there myself, I'm guilty of it.”

TOPICS

• From private practice to the C-Suite and industry-shaping    
• Authentic leadership, parenthood and quotas  
• Diversity, inclusion and organisational change
• Traditional legal career path vs a flexible/divergent path       

This podcast tackles the topic of quotas for women.  Visit Developing Talent if you are looking for fun and innovative ways to build confidence and capability around these issues of diversity and inclusion within your organisation.     

Enjoyed the podcast? Share and Enjoy! 

• Please don't forget to leave a rating via Apple Podcasts
• Never miss a drop by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify
• If you want to talk about your career in law reach out to us here  
• Or why not connect with Alex on LinkedIn   

Credits

Host: Alex Correa - Career Coach in Law

Brought to you by Alex Correa Executive  

With thanks to our guest : Antonia Mercorella

Friends in Law is edited and engineered by Cold Ghost (aka Fletcher Babb)  Produced by Bern Young 

“So many people I’ve spoken to say their concern is, a career in law is just not sustainable.”

It’s not a new issue to regular listeners of Friends-in-Law, however in the past this fear around career longevity and career intensity has mostly been a wake-up call from working parents.

So if it’s not about children, what kind of work-life balance are young lawyers  looking for? And what do firm managers need to understand in order to get the best from early career lawyers?

Minnie Hannaford is an Associate at Holding Redlich and newly appointed President of the Queensland Law Society’s Future Leaders Committee.

“As much as we do want to progress in our career .. We also want to have lives outside of law and outside of work.”

“We struggle with knowing how to say that without it being a career limitation, without it sounding like, you’re not committed to the work.”

“I actually think it’s quite the opposite, we want to have a balanced and joyful life so we can perform at work.”

TOPICS

• Early career lawyers 
• Managing and Leading Gen Y Lawyers 
• Mid-Career drop off 
• Sustainability of a career in law
• Mental health 

This podcast tackles the topics of mental health and ageism.  Visit Developing Talent if you are looking for fun and innovative ways to build confidence and capability around these issues of diversity and inclusion within your organisation.   

Enjoyed the podcast? Share and Enjoy! 

• Please don't forget to leave a rating via Apple Podcasts
• Never miss a drop by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify
• If you want to talk about your career in law reach out to us here  
• Or why not connect with Alex on LinkedIn   

Credits

Host: Alex Correa - Career Coach in Law

Brought to you by Alex Correa Executive  

With thanks to our guest : Minnie Hannaford

Friends in Law is edited and engineered by Cold Ghost (aka Fletcher Babb)  Produced by Bern Young