Logo
    Search

    Divisions in Israeli society - with Dr. Micah Goodman

    enJune 17, 2024

    Podcast Summary

    • Israeli politics after traumaTraumatic events led to end of political left and rise of right-wing govts, creating new challenges for manpower and Haredi military service exemptions

      The Israeli political landscape has been significantly shaped by traumatic events, particularly the 2nd Intifada and the ongoing conflict with the Palestinians. The trauma experienced during these periods has led to an end of the political left in Israel and the rise of pure right-wing governments, which is now a source of trauma rather than a fantasy. Meanwhile, Israel is facing new military challenges and questions about manpower and where it's coming from within the population. This debate over military service exemptions for Haredi Jews is a test for Israeli society and its politics in the aftermath of traumatic events. Additionally, the New York City Police Department's role in protecting the Jewish community during times of unrest is being recognized and supported through a donation drive.

    • Israeli society's solidarity during warThe Israeli people's strong horizontal solidarity during war is currently challenged by a lack of trust towards the government, potentially leading to an unsustainable situation and growing divisions.

      The Israeli society's solidarity during times of war, which has historically been strong, is currently facing significant challenges due to a deep-rooted paradox: a lack of trust towards the government vertically, but strong horizontal solidarity among the people. This structure, which has carried Israel through various conflicts, is now becoming unsustainable as the war in Israel continues to drag on. The current polarization, which is dividing a people willing to fight for their existence but don't trust their government, is unprecedented and may lead to more Israelis having a hard time supporting policies and wars led by a government they don't trust. This is particularly evident in the ongoing debate over the ultra-Orthodox military exemption, which is causing growing divisions within Israeli society. The pessimistic outlook is that this structure may collapse before the end of the war, leaving Israel in a potentially dangerous situation. However, there is an optimistic perspective that Israel will overcome this challenge in the long term. The conversation also touched upon the historical precedent of deep polarization during the war of independence and how it was overcome.

    • Haredi community's paradoxical structureThe Haredi community's attempt to isolate while being economically dependent on the Israeli majority creates an unsustainable dependency and weakens Israel's unity as a Jewish and democratic state.

      The Haredi community in Israel is living in a paradoxical structure, which can be referred to as the "weird model." This model involves the community trying to isolate themselves from the Israeli majority while being economically dependent on them. This creates a dependency that is not sustainable, especially as the Haredi community grows and may become the largest group in Israel. Furthermore, the distinction between Israel being a Jewish state and a democratic state is an optical illusion that amplifies internal battles and weakens the country. In reality, Israel is divided into three groups based on values of nationalism and liberalism, and understanding this can help foster unity and strength in the face of external challenges.

    • Israeli identityThe hybrid group of Israelis, consisting of the majority, holds both strong nationalistic and liberal values but lacks self-awareness and unity, making it crucial for them to recognize their collective identity and create coalitions to move forward and reduce political division, with potential contributions from the Haredi community.

      The Israeli population can be categorized into three groups based on their values: nationalists on the right, liberals on the left, and a large hybrid group in the middle. The hybrid group, consisting of the majority of Israelis, holds both strong nationalistic and liberal values. However, this group lacks self-awareness and is often divided along political lines, leading to a politically divided Israel. To move forward, it's crucial for the hybrid group to recognize their collective identity and create coalitions among themselves, rather than with the extreme left and right. Additionally, the Haredi community, which also seeks integration into Israeli society, could play a significant role in this process. The ongoing conflict serves as an opportunity for the hybrid group to reinvent Israel as a country divided into three, rather than two, distinct groups.

    • Haredi community in IsraelThe Haredi community's current model of economic dependence and cultural separation, maintained through fear, is unsustainable and will likely collapse as Israelis prioritize strength and survival

      The Haredi community in Israel, while politically connected, faces challenges in socially and culturally integrating with the larger Israeli society. This paradoxical situation arises due to their political influence, which enables their community to maintain cultural and social separation. However, if the Israeli hybrid population unites, the Haredi community may split, and a significant portion could join mainstream Israeliism. The Haredi community is complex, consisting of political elites, the community at large, and individual members. While the elites work to preserve the current model of economic dependence and cultural separation, many within the community do not fully identify with this model. Fear keeps them from rebelling, as the leadership has effective ways to regulate behavior. However, this model, which relies on fear rather than identification, is unsustainable and doomed to collapse. The upcoming October 7th event, which may shift Israeli focus from questions of justice and fairness to strength and survival, could be a catalyst for change. Ultimately, the Haredi community's current model, which weakens Israel, will end as Israelis prioritize strength and survival.

    • Israeli politics and traumaThe deep trauma of past events, such as the 2nd Intifada, has significantly shaped Israeli politics, leading to a shift towards the right and potentially creating new traumas through the pursuit of right-wing ideology

      Israeli politics have been shaped significantly by fear and anxiety, which are linked to past traumatic memories. The 2nd Intifada, a period of over 140 terrorist attacks resulting in over 1,100 Israeli deaths during left-wing governments in the 1990s, left a deep trauma that led to the end of the political left in Israel. This trauma pushed Israeli politics to the right, and in 2023, for the first time in many years, a pure right-wing government was formed. However, this government's success in achieving right-wing ideology has turned the fantasy into a traumatic memory, potentially shaping the future of Israeli politics. The way we remember events can have a larger impact on the future than the events themselves, and the memory of the pure right-wing government may become a traumatic one.

    • Intersection of Israeli left and right traumasThe intersection of traumas from the Israeli left and right will lead to a hybrid center characterized by a balance of individualism and collectivism, or liberal nationalism, providing an opportunity for a new innovative governing coalition during times of crisis

      The future of Israeli politics will be shaped by the intersection of traumas from both the left and right wings. These traumas, rather than canceling each other out, will add to the existing anxieties and push the country towards a hybrid center. This center will be characterized by a balance of individualism and collectivism, or liberal nationalism. This prediction is not based on hope, but on the historical success of national unity governments in Israel during times of crisis. The combination of anxieties from the left and right has the potential to create a new, innovative governing coalition that could reinvent Israel after the current conflict. This theory is not wishful thinking, but a response to the realities of the current political climate. The speaker's increased anxiety about Israel's future is a testament to the weight of these traumas, but also a source of hope that the country can find a way to move forward through the intersection of these anxieties.

    • Call Me Back surveyThe Call Me Back podcast team makes it easy for listeners to engage with the show and build a community through a call-back survey, which is produced, edited, and managed by team members.

      The team behind the Call Me Back podcast has made it easier for listeners and community members to engage with the show by providing a call-back survey. This survey can be found in the show notes, and it's produced and edited by Lon Benatar, with additional editing by Martin Huergo and media management by Rebecca Strom. The podcast is hosted by Dan Senor. This is a simple yet effective way for the podcast to build a stronger connection with its audience and foster a sense of community. By making it easy for listeners to provide feedback and engage with the show, the team is demonstrating their commitment to creating a high-quality and interactive listening experience. So, if you're a fan of the Call Me Back podcast, be sure to check out the show notes for the link to the call-back survey and join the conversation.

    Recent Episodes from Call Me Back - with Dan Senor

    Bonus Episode: Noa Tishby and Emmanuel Acho

    Bonus Episode: Noa Tishby and Emmanuel Acho
    *** Share on X: https://tinyurl.com/ydvnv2ry *** Since October 7th, many of us have had uncomfortable conversations we could never have imagined having. October 7th sparked debates and discussions that got very awkward very quickly. But what’s unique about our guests today is that they were having these conversations prior to October 7th. Not only were they having these conversations, they were working on a book that chronicled these difficult conversations. Their book is called “Uncomfortable Conversations with a Jew”. It’s by Noa Tishby and Emmanuel Acho. Emmanuel is a #1 New York Times bestselling author and the host and producer of an online series called "Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man". Emmanuel was nominated for an emmy award for this series. He’s also a 2021 Sports Emmy winner, a Fox Sports Analyst. And, perhaps most importantly, Emmanuel is a former NFL linebacker. Noa Tishby is the New York Times bestselling author of Israel: A Simple Guide to the Most Misunderstood Country on Earth. A native of Tel Aviv, she served in the Israeli army before moving to Los Angeles and launching a career in the entertainment industry. An award-winning producer, Tishby made history with the sale of In Treatment to HBO, the first Israeli television show to become an American series. She has had an extraordinary career in Israeli television and film. To order their book: Amazon - https://tinyurl.com/4k3uv8av B&N - https://tinyurl.com/mv2xfxsp

    Where was the IDF on Oct 7? - with Ronen Bergman

    Where was the IDF on Oct 7? - with Ronen Bergman
    *** Share on X: https://tinyurl.com/yvesakat *** One of the questions we repeatedly get from you, our listeners, is - "Where was the IDF on October 7th?" It's a topic that we have strenuously avoided. After the war, there will be a formal commission of inquiry that attempts to understand all that went wrong and why. There will be a time and a place for that. And yet, as the war in Gaza winds down, and as Israel prepares for another possible war, this question re-emerges. What lessons can be learned? More and more journalists in Israel are exploring the topic. So, we are going to dedicate an episode from time to time in the weeks ahead to try to understand what these journalists are learning. Our only caveat is that this is a difficult topic to explore - for all the obvious reasons. The information is uneven... there is still an element of fog of war. When I was in Israel last week, I visited Ronen Bergman in his home in Ramat HaSharon, to have a long conversation about what he has pieced together. Ronen is a staff writer for The New York Times Magazine and Senior Correspondent for Military and Intelligence Affairs for Yedioth Ahronoth, an Israeli daily. Ronen recently won a Pulitzer Prize for his reporting on this war and the pre-war intelligence failures. He has published numerous books, including: “Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations” - https://tinyurl.com/mwbmchaj And also, “The Secret War with Iran" - https://tinyurl.com/2p8sh9u Ronen is also a member of the Israeli bar (he clerked in the Attorney General’s Office), and has a master’s degree in international relations, as well as a Ph.D. in history from Cambridge University. Read Ronen's piece in The New York Times here: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

    The ‘Day After’ Document - with Prof. Netta Barak-Corren

    The ‘Day After’ Document - with Prof. Netta Barak-Corren
    Share on X: https://tinyurl.com/yc8jb3m6 Is now the time for Israeli decision-makers to begin serious internal deliberations and planning for the “day after” in Gaza? According to Nadav Eyal in his column last Friday in Yediot, over 95% of Hamas rockets are gone, Hamas’s smuggling routes have been closed, and its munitions production capacity is zero. Is progress in defeating Hamas appears much better than one would think from reading popular press accounts? It’s against that backdrop that we’ve learned of a 28-page document -- this is not publica -- and is circulating among Israeli military leaders and war strategy decision-makers within the government. Some we spoke to suggested that this document is being treated as the basis for ‘day after’ planning in the government. It’s called: "From a murderous regime to a moderate society: the transformation and rehabilitation of Gaza after Hamas". The researchers are Prof. Netta Barak-Corren, a law professor who works on conflict resolution; Prof. Danny Orbach, a military historian; Dr. Nati Flamer who specializes in Hamas and Hezbollah; and Dr. Harel Chorev, an expert on Palestinian society. To help us understand these recommendations, we are joined today by one of its authors, Prof. Netta Barak-Corren, who is a legal scholar with degrees from the Hebrew University (where she is a professor). She clerked for the Chief Justice of the Israeli Supreme Court, and then pursued doctoral studies at Harvard, graduating in 2016. She currently is on leave from Hebrew University, while she’s visiting faculty at Princeton. She’s previously taught at University of Pennsylvania and University of Chicago.

    Call me Back LIVE - with Michael Rapaport

    Call me Back LIVE - with Michael Rapaport
    Share on X: https://rb.gy/un15s6 Today in this special episode, we are releasing the first episode of the Call me Back podcast recorded before a very enthusiastic live audience at the Comedy Cellar in Manhattan. Our guest was actor, director and comedian Michael Rapaport. The focus of our conversation is about how Michael became such an energetic, provocative, and hilarious voice on behalf of Israel and the Jewish people since 10/07, as well as his observations on why more Jews from the creative arts and entertainment industry have not been as outspoken as him (or, even worse, why so many have remained silent). We also discuss his reaction to those who criticize Israel “as a Jew”, and his experience dealing with the professional cost of proudly advocating for Israel and the Jewish people. You can follow Michael on X here: https://x.com/MichaelRapaport And on IG here: https://www.instagram.com/michaelrapaport/ Find Michael's podcast, I AM RAPAPORT here: https://www.iamrapaport.com/

    Is Israel headed for a two-front war? - with Nadav Eyal

    Is Israel headed for a two-front war? - with Nadav Eyal
    First, a housekeeping note: many of you filled out the survey we published in our previous episode, and we are very grateful for that. If you haven't filled out this short survey, we would greatly appreciate it if you took 2 minutes to fill it out. It is extremely helpful to us in thinking through ways to improve the podcast and understand our audience. Please follow this link to the survey: https://forms.gle/nZh8ZRA5YjJxmdEW6 - As for today's episode - I've been in Israel for the past couple of days, for my 4th visit here since 10/07. Something that has struck me in my conversations with Israelis is the degree to which a war with Hezbollah is not discussed in terms of IF, but rather in terms of WHEN. And as for the WHEN, some are suggesting quite soon. In fact, Defense Minister Gallant said that the goal should be that for those Israelis evacuated from the North, they should be back in their evacuated communities and homes in time for the next school year.  This would put to the test the IDF’s capacity to fight a multi front war. In other words - while the IDF is getting closer to the point of defeating Hamas in Gaza - it might also be at the early stages of a war with Hezbollah. - To help us understand what’s going on here, our guest today is NADAV EYAL, who returns to the podcast. I sat down with him today in Tel Aviv. He is a columnist for Yediot. Eyal has been covering Middle-Eastern and international politics for the last two decades for Israeli radio, print and television news.  - Nadav's latest column, which we discussed in this episode: https://tinyurl.com/msk43n53

    Divisions in Israeli society - with Dr. Micah Goodman

    Divisions in Israeli society - with Dr. Micah Goodman
    First, a housekeeping note: Over the past eight months the audience for this podcast has grown in ways we could never have imagined, but there is no real way for us to know who is listening - age group, ideological leanings, the country you are living in, etc. These are all very helpful data points for us to improve the podcast and understand our audience. So, please fill out this 2 minute survey: https://forms.gle/nZh8ZRA5YjJxmdEW6 And one other item we wanted to bring to your attention. We are repeatedly reminded how the NYPD has continued to bravely protect our community— most recently 10 days ago at the Nova Music Festival exhibition where a mob of antisemitic rioters attempted to intimidate Jewish New Yorkers, and just before that when the NYPD helped ensure a smooth Israel Day Parade here in New York in which over 100,000 people participated. To express our thanks for helping to keep our Jewish community and all New Yorkers safe, The Paul E. Singer Foundation is matching donations up to $200,000 made to the New York City Police Foundation. Donations must be made Monday, June 24, 2024. Join us to meet and exceed this goal. If interested in donating, you can do it here: https://secure.anedot.com/nycpolicefoundation/thepesfoundation As for today's episode, as we discussed at length in our last episode -- "Haviv Unplugged!" -- the issue of a military service exemption for Haredi Jews (ultra-Orthodox Jews) is coming to a head right now, as Israel is at war. Or maybe it's coming to a head with such ferocity precisely because Israel is at war, and it's raising all sorts of questions about whether Israel has the manpower to fight a continued war in Gaza and possibly other fronts that could open up. It does seem like Israel is in an entirely new military environment, across multiple fronts. Also, are some parts of the Israeli population paying a disproportionately high price? These are questions that are being considered right now by Israel's government. These are questions that are weighing especially heavy on society after 12 soldiers over the past few days. Dr. Micah Goodman is our guest today, to help us unpack all of this. Micah is on the speed-dial of a number of Israeli political leaders – from right to left, but especially on the center-left and the center-right. He is a polymath, a podcaster and one of Israel’s most influential public intellectuals, having written books ranging from biblical lessons for the modern age to Israel’s geopolitics. One book in particular, had an outsized impact in terms of its framing of the conundrum that Israel has been in with the Palestinians since 1967. That book is called "Catch-67: The Left, the Right, and the Legacy of the Six-Day War", Not only have all of his books been bestsellers in Israel, he essentially created a new genre; books that bring core texts of Jewish thought to a general, secular audience. In his new book – called "The Eighth Day", which Micah wrote in a four-month sprint after October 7th – Micah tries to understand the implications of the nation’s trauma and what it means for the other ‘day after’ (not the ‘day after’ in Gaza, but the ‘day after’ inside Israel). What does this moment mean for Israelis? How will 10/07 re-shape Israeli society…and its politics? Micah Goodman’s books: Catch-67 — https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/catch-67-micah-goodman/1128089735?ean=9780300248418 The Wondering Jew — https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-wondering-jew-micah-goodman/1136574622?ean=9780300252248

    Haviv Unplugged!

    Haviv Unplugged!
    Share on X: https://tinyurl.com/2s4x4j2h In recent days, there have been a lot of war-related developments that have taken place in Israel and outside of Israel. So it was good that we had the opportunity to catch up with Haviv Rettig Gur as Shavuot came to a close in Israel. In this episode, we wound up having a spirited conversation about: I.The mood in Israel days after after Operation Arnon, and also why the day after the successful resuce operation we saw Benny Gantz's long anticipated exit from the unity government; II. The ultra orthodox or 'Haredi' IDF exemption bill that passed in the Knesset; and III. Hamas's rejection (yet again) of Israel's ceasefire proposal.

    OPERATION ARNON - with Nadav Eyal

    OPERATION ARNON - with Nadav Eyal
    Share on X: https://tinyurl.com/ymmv7m8u We have just witnessed one of the most extraordinary 48-hour periods in Israel since October 7th, as we learned news of an extremely complex military, intelligence and hostage rescue operation. We are seeing — and many of us are experiencing — the impact that this development is having on Israeli society, and on the Jewish people worldwide. This operation has been renamed OPERATION ARNON, after Colonel Arnon Zamora, who was the chief inspector of the Israeli Police’s special commando Counterterrorosim Unit. He was the only Israeli to have fallen in this operation. May Arnon's memory be a blessing. To learn more about Arnon's life, you can read here: https://www.timesofisrael.com/hero-of-israel-thousands-pay-last-respects-to-officer-killed-in-hostage-rescue-op/ In this episode, NADAV EYAL provides a comprehensive picture and analysis of what actually happened in this operation. Nadav is a columnist for Yediot. He has been covering Middle-Eastern and international politics for the last two decades for Israeli radio, print and television news. To read Nadav's piece in Yediot: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/syo00lyxs0

    The Great Powers and the War in Gaza - with Walter Russell Mead

    The Great Powers and the War in Gaza - with Walter Russell Mead
    Share on X: https://tinyurl.com/ytm9656f Over the past 8 months, we've focused most of our attention on Israel's perspective and the American perspective since October 7th. But what we wanted to do today is gradually zoom out from Israel and Gaza, to the perspective of other regional players in the Middle East, and finally examine this war from the perspective of the global powers, especially China and Russia. Has the Israel-Hamas war advanced their interests or reversed them? Our guest today is Walter Russell Mead. He is at the Hudson Institute, he is the Global View Columnist at The Wall Street Journal. He was previously the Henry Kissinger fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. He also has a terrific podcast at Tablet Magazine, called What Really Matters: https://www.tabletmag.com/podcasts/what-really-matters He is also a prolific author. His most recent book is -- The Arc of a Covenant: The United States, Israel, and the Fate of the Jewish People, which you order here -- shorturl.at/bdhpz

    The last Israeli to negotiate with the Palestinians - with Tzipi Livni (Part 2)

    The last Israeli to negotiate with the Palestinians - with Tzipi Livni (Part 2)
    Share on Twitter/X: https://tinyurl.com/nvmznb7m Tzipi Livni has served as a minister of eight different cabinet ministries under three prime ministers: Ariel Sharon, Ehud Olmert, and Benjamin Netanyahu. Her positions have included Justice Minister, Foreign Minister and Vice-Prime Minister. She has also been the official leader of the opposition. As foreign minister, Tzipi Livni led negotiations with the Palestinian Authority, she was a key government figure during Israel’s disengagement from Gaza and during Hamas’s subsequent takeover of Gaza. She was foreign minister during Israel’s Second Lebanon War and during Israel’s operation to take out Syria’s nuclear reactor. She began her service as a member of the Likud Party, and then the Kadima Party, and later the Hatnua Party and Zionist Union. Earlier in her career, Tzipi served in the Mossad (including in the elite unit famous for being responsible for the assassinations following the Munich massacre). No major Israeli political figure has had more recent experience trying to negotiate a two-state solution than Tzipi Livni.