Ep. 137: Demetrios Frangiskatos - SPAC Market and Considerations

Welcome to the Count Me In Podcast! Join host Adam Larson and special guest Donna Serdula, founder of Vision Board Media, a professional branding company, as they dive into the world of leveraging LinkedIn for finance and accounting professionals. In this episode, Donna shares valuable insights on making the most of your online presence and building meaningful connections in the finance industry. So grab a cup of coffee and join us for an engaging discussion on boosting your professional brand on LinkedIn!

Welcome to the Count Me In Podcast! In this episode, host Adam Larson invites Soufyan Hamid, a highly experienced finance professional with over 15 years in the industry. Soufyan is also the founder of SouFBP, a global consulting firm that helps finance professionals enhance their presentation delivery. Join Adam and Soufyan as they delve into Soufyan's remarkable journey in the accounting field, from working with top-tier firms to transitioning into corporate finance. They discuss the challenges of effective storytelling in the finance world and the importance of clear communication to effectively convey complex financial data. If you're eager to gain valuable insights into the world of finance and accounting, this episode is a must-listen!

Catch Soufyan live at IMA's European Accounting and Finance Conference in April 2024

Full Transcript:
 < Intro >

Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. Where we bring you compelling stories and insights from the world of accounting and finance. In today's episode, we have a fascinating conversation with Soufyan Hamid, an experienced accounting professional with over 15 years of corporate experience. As the founder of SouFBP, a global consulting firm, Soufyan's expertise lies in helping finance professionals, globally, master the delivery of their presentations by improving their preparation, messaging, and visuals.

Soufyan takes us on his remarkable journey, through the accounting field from his early days at a Big Four firm to becoming a finance business partner. We'll hear about practical strategies for becoming a more effective communicator, and how human skills are more vital than ever, in the age of automation. Let's get started.

< Music >

Soufyan, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We're really excited to have you. I thought we could start off our conversation by, maybe, you could tell us a little about your journey, in the accounting field, and what initially drew you to the profession?

Soufyan:        Well, it's quite easy because this is basically following the leads, that I started following in my studies in business, finance, and economics. And suddenly I realized that I liked the logic of accounting and the logic of finance. How precise it is, how organized it is to know the debits and the credits from one side. It has to be perfectly equal on both sides, so I liked the logic. And when you are in such an orientation, when you are in your studies, well, it goes quite easy because the Big Four are all over you, even before you end your studies.

And, so, in my last year, I directly signed a contract with PwC, and that's how my accounting career started, basically. And, so, I started as an auditor, working for PwC, and I did that during four years. And I liked that journey because it was an accelerated program, to understand better accounting without having to go through all specializations. You're easily brought into the whole picture, into the helicopter view of a P&L, for example, or a balance sheet.

And, so, I didn't have to go through all the transactions like bookkeeping AP, or AR, or cash, to finally become a general accountant. Thanks to that, after two years, I was already working on analytical reviews of the P&L, and working on the full balance sheet. So it was really a second university, I would say, and I love that.

But since I didn't want to become a public accountant for a living, and I didn't want to end up my career like that, I decided to move. And, at that moment, I was still considering myself as a rookie because you understand a lot of things when you work in audit, but you're still somehow in studies.

And, so, I wanted to face the reality of working in a company. But, obviously, at that time, I didn't have any experience working inside a company. So I decided to join Deloitte in temporary work department, with the business process solution department. And they offered us the possibility to work in accounting, but also controlling treasury, all finance fields, as a temp. Meaning that I had assignments of three months, six months, sometimes, one or two years.

And, so, I had the opportunity to continue learning how to work inside of finance department, under the umbrella of Deloitte. And that was really where I discovered what it was to work in finance. And this is also where I discovered my passion for controlling, FP&A, and finance business partnering.

Adam:            Mh-hmm, I think that's amazing. Because many accountants, whether they go the traditional route, starting at a Big Four like you, or they go right into corporate, right into the finance department, or the internal accounting team. They find themselves, eventually, getting to that point where they're looking at those finance, looking at the FP&A side of things, and being that business partner.

And what are some of the main challenges that you find when you get to that point? Or you've been doing all these things and you get to, "Hey, I'm going to be analyzing this complex data and trying to tell the story." When you're trying to convey these things to people, not even in finance. So you're no longer working with auditing teams or working with accounting teams. You're talking to people who don't understand how it all works. What are some of the biggest challenges that you find, when that happens?

Soufyan:        Well, I found these challenges when I started to work as internal for a company. Because when I left Deloitte, after five years, I decided to join a Belgian Telco company, as a finance business partner, and I was really good, technically.

Technically, I was really good. I was one of the few to master financial modeling. I was one of the few to master Excel, visual basics, Power Pivot, everything, that was, somehow, what made me successful at Deloitte. And I was kind of happy, and in finance, everybody was happy because I developed dashboards, I helped them automate many things.

But when I had to compare how I was welcomed by non-finance people, it's another story. Because I was so convinced that my success would go through the technical stuff, that I completely missed the fact that I was working with people, not mastering the same things as me. And I was there, telling them about the many exceptions you found in the data about I don't know which IFRS rule that made an exception to their figures. Another [Inaudible 00:06:05] that I had to reverse this month because it was too old to be there.

And, so, I had a difficult time having a real partnership with them. And since I was supposed to be a finance business partner, that made it tough. So I thought I was right, and I just understood that when you're working inside a company, and that you leave the world of PwC, of Deloitte, of one of the Big Four, and even one of the consulting firms, you don't have that shield.

You don't have that umbrella anymore, to protect you, and to give you the credibility, you need to convince people. So you have to work on your communication, you have to work on those ...

Welcome to the Count Me In Podcast, where we bring you conversations with top industry professionals and thought leaders. In this episode, host Adam Larson sits down with Jonathan Smalley, Co-Founder at Proxymity, for a deep dive into shareholder engagement in the corporate world. They discuss the critical importance of strengthening shareholder engagement, the impact on investor relations, and the ongoing digital transformation of proxy voting. If you want to gain insider insights and valuable advice from industry experts, you've come to the right place. Tune in to hear their engaging discussion on the future of shareholder communication and the evolving landscape of corporate governance.

Episode Transcript:
< Intro >

Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and in today's episode, we're diving into the world of shareholder engagement with Jonathan Smalley, co-founder at Proximity. We'll uncover why strengthening shareholder engagement is more crucial than ever, and why it's imperative for navigating the upcoming political landscape. From climate change to the rising influence of retail shareholders.

We'll explore the global factors impacting shareholder engagement, and the shift towards digitalizing proxy voting. Jonathan shares valuable insights on bridging the gap in shareholder communication, and the potential benefits for organizations. Get ready to gain a deeper understanding of the challenges and opportunities, in shareholder engagement.

< Music >

Adam:            Well, Jonathan, I'm really excited to have you on the podcast today. And we're going to be talking about shareholder engagement, which is something not everybody touches, necessarily, but it's a very important part of your organization. Especially if you have a board or shareholders, if you're a public company.

And, so, what makes strengthening shareholder engagement more critical, now than ever, for smoother investor relations. Especially as we're going into 2024 here, as we're recording at the end of 2023. What makes that so important, right now?

Jonathan:       Firstly, thanks for having me, Adam. Yes, I'd say it's more critical than ever, but I'd say it's been critical for quite a long time. But when we look at what's behind us and what's ahead, there are some really big global factors that are not going away. That are continuing to heat things up, I feel like.

I think as we head into 2024, also, it's the biggest political election year, globally, ever. Big elections in the U.S., India, South Korea, Mexico, likely to be one in the United Kingdom. And a lot of the factors, actually, that are going to impact political elections are going to be considerations when people go to the ballot box, are actually also transferable to the boardroom, or to the annual general meeting hall.

Things like climate change is not going to surprise people, but that is something that is extremely topical and is a key part of issuer-shareholder engagement. Just this year, both inside the U.S. and outside, more shareholders' climate proposals than last year.

And there are groups that cite that as financially material to their investment decisions now. And not just people on the street, but powerful, influential, institutional investor groups have got together and made that determination. And they're not just asking issuers and, obviously, the regulators are also calling for disclosures. It's also their service providers that are asking to do more.

They want net zero policies. They want better climate integration into things like voting policies. And another one that's been heating things up for a long time now is Say-on-Pay. 94% now of S&P 1500 companies have a say on pay vote every single year. Ten years ago that would have been about 50%, so it's a big increase. And, I think, this year they, against recommendations from the leading two vote, advisors went down, but less against recommendations. But those resolutions got less support this year than last year.

So that makes those contests quite frequent. And, then, I think, kind of linked to the climate change thing. You've got ESG versus increasing anti ESG, pretty polarized, and I think that's also something. As I sort of mentioned before, is going to also play out in political elections as well, not just in company elections. 

And then I'd say that the big kicker to all of that is that we're just seeing year on year more votes, particularly, more votes from retail shareholders. Institutional shareholder voting has been quite high for a number of years now because of active ownership, because of stewardship codes, because of regulation.

Retail, as a rule of thumb, has always been 20, 25% maybe in a contest a little bit higher than that. So there's clearly much more room for that to go into. And we've got some brokers going, "We're getting 30% a year on year increase." Some retail shared voting, and that's coming at a time where we're going through millennials and Gen Z's inheriting anywhere between $68 to $84 billion. And millennials, at the moment, are the most likely generational group to vote.

So big issues against the backdrop of a great wealth transfer heading into a year that is going to be, probably, more politically charged than any we've seen across all the democratic countries, in the world, that are going to go to the polls. So I think engaging shareholders and having an efficient way for companies and shareholders to communicate back and forth is going to be more important than ever before, just because there's so much more coming. And I think we'll get on to maybe the technology a little bit later.

But if you look at the legacy ecosystem about the way companies and shareholders communicate, we urgently need to upgrade that to deal with this. Because it's a good thing for companies and shareholders to communicate back and forth. We should be allowing it efficiently and digitally. And if we don't, and we're not ready for what's coming, then, there's going to be more negative headlines, I think, for companies to be worried about. As those general meetings debate and have voted on very important decisions for the company.

Adam:            Yes, it's great how you outline all the different political factors. All the things happening around the world, that are causing more and more shareholders to become more engaged. And before we get to the technology piece, maybe, you could elaborate a little more about the importance of that communication between shareholders, in the organization. How it can impact a company's overall performance and even reputation?

Jonathan:       Yes, I mean, starting with the reputational piece, it's probably easier to talk about the downside, sometimes, because, then, that's the thing that creates headlines. It creates headlines when results are challenged. When there's uncertainty about the results. And we saw a fairly infamous case a few years ago at the P&G's meeting, votes counted three times and it was a different result every time. And you're like, "How could that be?"

And that was very expensive, both for the company, it w...

Welcome to Count Me In! Join host Adam Larson and special guest Rick Watson, CEO of Protection Point Advisor, founder of the National Referral Network and author of A Firm Worth Building. They dive into inspiring stories and insights on leadership, company culture, and business success. Get ready for engaging conversations and valuable business wisdom from industry experts like Rick, who shares his journey and expertise in changing company culture. Embrace the CEO mindset and gain powerful leadership tips with Count Me In!

Full Transcript:
< Intro >

Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today's episode is all about company culture. Our guest, Rick Watson, CEO of Protection Point Advisors, founder of the National Referral Network, and an author, is a seasoned leader with a wealth of experiences.

He discusses his journey from working with a large corporation to starting his own firm, and the challenges he faced along the way. We explore concepts like trust compression, the importance of storytelling, and edification and empowering a team. With practical examples and real-world experiences, Rick provides valuable strategies, for creating a purpose-driven, successful organization. Get ready to be inspired and motivated, as we dive into the power of culture and leadership in this insightful, engaging, conversation with Rick Watson.

< Music >

Rick, I'm very excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast, and excited to be talking about leadership, and just some of your journey, as well, and what you've learned along the way. And, maybe, we can start off by what inspired you to start your own firm? It's not an easy task to do that. It's not something that people can do lightly. How did you assess your readiness for this entrepreneurial journey?

Rick:               It's funny. I, actually, wanted to be tested. I wanted to be weighed and measured, that was true. And there was a point where I was working for a corporation, every year they would adjust my sales territory, and that drove me nutty. And, so, I would do well, and they would restrict it, if I didn't do as well, they'd increase it. It was really weird. They knew what they wanted to pay me.

So I didn't start going down that road of starting my own firm. But I was happy to work with somebody else, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. I worked with a partner for a long time, and I liked playing second fiddle because, then, I didn't have to have all the attention on me. I could actually just do the work. And there was a point where that partnership fell apart and I had to step up. And I really like being in charge today, I like being the CEO. But it was a transition that took a few years to get there.

Adam:            I can only imagine the transition, especially, if you've always been a company person. You've always not have to make all the decisions. There's a lot of weight that comes with having to make the top-level decision, the top-level strategy. How did you handle adjusting to that weight?

Rick:               Yes, it's funny that you say that. So I always think of someone will be talking about their kid's school, and now their kid just graduated from whatever, and I'm paying for that. Well, I know that in the end analysis, it's our efforts, my decisions, that make that go badly or go well. And you're right, it's an absolute amount of weight all the time.

On the other hand, I like taking care of people. And, so, you do that at home, you take care of your family. And, yes, I suppose it's more weight, it's more responsibility, those people depend on you. And, so, I just have a really big family, it seems like, anymore.

Adam:            Yes, I like that. Seeing them as your family because it's no longer just numbers or people who work for you or say, "Oh, I have this many people." It's like, "No, that person has a name. They have a family themselves, they have a life, as opposed, to just looking at the bottom line."

Rick:               Yes, I think that there is a management school of thought that says that's a bad idea. I disagree. I think that loyalty and culture is part of a company, and that you don't have to turn over people all the time… I just think that there's a school of thought that you can turn over people, and I think that if you don't turn over people, they're so much more profitable. It's a good business decision to hold on to people, and part of that is to build culture and relationships with them.

Adam:            No, that's great, and when you mentioned things like loyalty, it makes me think of trust. And one of the concepts you mentioned in your book, A Firm Worth Building, is trust compression. And when people hear that, they're like, "What does that mean? I don't get it." Unless they've read your book, they may not understand it. So I was thinking maybe you could talk about what trust compression is, and how important it is in leadership.

Rick:               The trust compression it's kind of funny, it's something that we bumped into. It wasn't on purpose. I think that there should be a university study about that. But, effectively, what happens is that people, humans, don't make decisions about how much they trust somebody based on the length of their interactions. It's based on the number of interactions.

And, so, doing those appointments, we were doing appointments, in my industry, the typical appointment goes for 60 to 90 minutes. You do two of those, an opening appointment and a closing appointment. It turns out that if you break that into four appointments, at 15 to 20 minutes apiece, which is way more efficient. Trust that you'll build in that relationship is so much more significant.

And, so, what I'm telling businesses that we work with is that it's a really good idea. If you can break your process up into smaller, bite-sized bits, the people will remember more, and your relationship will be older in a shorter amount of time. It's pretty cool.

Adam:            That does sound pretty cool. One thing that I tried doing was setting my default, in Outlook, to 25 minutes and 50 minutes. Never doing a full hour and never doing a half hour. Because I felt like we would go up until that time, gave ourselves no time for break, but, then, also we'd spend too much time doing other things. How do you still get as so much accomplished by breaking those meetings up? How does that, positively, impact the conversation?

Rick:               Each one of those conversations is, in a sense, scripted, we know where we're at. I think that so much of business conversations are wasted energy. They do the relating, which we would call relating, I talk about it in the book. Which is that first part of like, "Oh, how was...

Join host Adam Larson as he sits down with distinguished guest Norman Strauss in the latest episode of the Count Me In. Listen as they share engaging stories and insights from Strauss's 60-year career in accounting. From the challenges of embracing technological changes to his pivotal role in standard-setting committees, Strauss reveals the highs and lows of a lifelong journey in the accounting profession. It's a candid and valuable conversation that you won't want to miss!

Full Episode Transcript:
< Intro >

Adam:            Today we have a special episode of Count Me In called IMA Life. We're going to start talking to different management accountants, from IMA, and hear their journey. Today we sat down with Norman Strauss, a veteran in the accounting profession, with over 60 years of experience. We chat about Norm's beginnings. Sharing stories from his early days in accounting. Navigating the challenges posed by technological advancements, and the significant role mentors have played in his career.

Norm provides insights in his involvement with various committees, and sheds light on the complex process of setting accounting standards. With a dash of humor and a plethora of wisdom, Norm shares valuable insights in his impressive journey. So tune in, for an episode brimming with decades of experience and invaluable insights.

< Music >

Adam:            Well, Norm, I'm really excited to have you on the podcast, on our new IMA Life series, and you've had quite the career. And could you start, maybe, by sharing a memorable story of your early days, in your career. Maybe some challenges that you had, as you just got started in accounting?

Norman:        Well, thanks for having me, and it has been a long career. I was 36 years with the Financial Reporting Committee, of the IMA, and I also was in public accounting for many years. And if you add it all up, it's about 60 years' worth of doing things in the accounting profession, which I've always felt is a tremendous profession. And I think there's lots and lots of opportunities for people that are getting into accounting. 

You start at a beginning position. You work your way up, if you keep working hard, you get challenges throughout your whole career and tremendous opportunities to continue with dancing. So I'm very pleased that I went into accounting, even though it's a long time ago. And I've finally gotten to the end of my career with the Financial Reporting Committee, after those 36 years. So it is nice to keep going, and it's a pleasure to be here today with you.

Adam:            Well, I can imagine just the things you've seen in a 60-year career. That's some people's lifetimes and more than their lifetimes. And just thinking about everything you've seen, how do you think accountants are handling the changes? Because in the last ten years alone, the amount of technology changes that have happened across the world, the industries, has just been remarkable. And I'm sure the first part of your career, the technology was changing but not as rapidly as it's happening today.

Norman:        It is a real challenge for people in the field, now. In my day, we didn't have computers; and it was nice, and slow, and worksheets, and you did everything in pencil. And now with all the technology, it's a terrific opportunity to get involved with all of these different things. So depending upon where you're working, hopefully, as you're moving along in your career path, the company that you're in will give you a lot of background, but a lot of training, and a lot of people that you'll be able to learn these things from. And that's one good thing about the profession, it's not stagnant. You have these changes. So there's always something new, and always something that's interesting that's happening 

Now, I go all the way back in the beginning, and one thing I always felt that helped my career was luck. It was always nice when good things happened to you. So I started at Baruch College and I was going for my master's degree, and I took a course on contemporary accounting topics, with a professor by the name of Abraham Briloff, and I'd never heard of him before. But as it turns out, I found out that he's one of the most famous professors, at the time, and he was a tremendous critic of the accounting profession.

So I went into the first day of class and he said, who am I? And I said, "I'm Norman Strauss."

And he said, "You go sit in the front row," rather, and that's where he pointed. But I didn't want to sit in the front row. So when he wasn't looking, I went all the way to the back of the classroom. And then he started talking, and I'd never heard a professor like this before. I mean he was using big words, complicated accounting theories that he's imposing on everybody. He was even so interesting that he was making quotes to accounting in the Bible, which was not easy to do.

So I was amazed, and he was really critical of the accounting profession. And, all of a sudden, the student who was sitting where I was supposed to sit, up front said, "Professor Briloff, I have to object to your criticism of the accounting profession." And then this young fella articulately explained why the accounting profession is really good, and basically disagreed with the discussion that he was giving us.

So Professor Briloff said, "That was a wonderful explanation, Strauss." So he thought that I was still upfront, that he had my name mixed up. And the next week I got there very early and I sat in that seat, and it worked out very nicely. The rest of the semester he kept smiling at me, so that's kind of luck.

But then getting into public accounting, when you start at the very beginning, in the old days, you had the interesting title of a junior accountant. And that, of course, was not particularly complementary.

But after a while, if you worked hard, you became what was then called a semi senior accountant, which was even worse, and eventually you made senior accountant. And I remember in those days, when I started as a junior accountant, you really had to worry that you'd get fired after the busy season. I know cycles come and go. Now, we read a lot about firms letting go off people, but that's the nature of the profession. Everybody needs accountants in business, and therefore the opportunities are unlimited.

So, anyway, I was worrying about getting let go right after the tax season. And I confided with a semi senior, who I was reporting to, and, to me, he was so smart, he knew everything. And I told him, "I'm really worried that I think I'm going to be let go."

And he said, "Norm, don't worry, you're really doing fine."

And then the next day, I went to work and I found out that he got fired. So that was an interesting challenge. But if you keep doing your thing, learning from the people that you work with, you could keep advancing up the ladder.

Adam:            I think that's some great advice. As I've read about your story and chatted with you, mentors have held an important part of your career. Maybe you can talk a little bit about the different mentors you've had and how they've helped you move alo...

Welcome to the Count Me In Podcast! Join host Adam Larson as he chats with the insightful Yerbol Orynbayev, a seasoned leader with a wealth of experience in both the public and private sectors. Yerbol shares compelling stories and lessons from his remarkable career, including his tenure as the deputy prime minister of Kazakhstan and his pivotal role in restructuring a major bank. His candid insights and practical advice are sure to inspire aspiring leaders and entrepreneurs. Tune in for an engaging conversation packed with real-world insights and takeaways!

Full Episode Transcript:
< Intro >

Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In this episode, we have the privilege of interviewing Yerbol Orynbayev. Who shares his extraordinary leadership journey, and the impactful lessons he's learned. Yerbol's experiences range from serving as Deputy Prime Minister of Kazakhstan, to transforming the Jusan Bank from near bankruptcy to achieving $1.2 billion in profit.

Throughout the episode, Yerbol sheds light on the crucial decisions and strategies that were pivotal in leading the bank to success. His insightful advice on leadership, vision, investing in people, and embracing failures provides valuable lessons for aspiring leaders. Join us as Yerbol shares his invaluable wisdom and experiences, on navigating crisis and driving change.

< Music >

Yerbol, we're really excited to have you on the podcast. I'm just really excited to chat with you, about your leadership journey and the different paths you've taken, and you've had quite the leadership journey. What drew you to the different positions that you've taken, and what are some of the lessons you've learned along the way?

Yerbol:           Adam, first of all, thank you very much for this opportunity to share my experience about Jusan Bank story, with you, with your program. I worked for the government of Kazakhstan for quite a long time. I resigned in 2015. Before that time, before my resignation, I served as the deputy prime minister and handled economic and then social responsibilities. And, so, in 2018, when I was already with the private sector, working on my own business. I received an invitation from the university, which asked me to help them to set up the investment division of the endowment fund.

So it was a very exciting proposal. I believe they decided to focus on me and then send this invitation to me because during my time with the government, I served as a board member of the National Bank of Kazakhstan. The board member of the Agency for Supervision of the financial organizations. I also, successfully, set up a western-type university in Kazakhstan. So a lot of people knew me very well. So they said, "Okay, why not, after one successful story, one successful project, let's offer him this opportunity."

So in 2018, I started this journey, the Jusan Bank with other banks, and I had this great opportunity to create the investment division of the endowment fund. So that's how I started this particular journey with the Jusan Bank, with its restructuring, creating a new business model based on the ecosystem.

In terms of the lessons, actually, it was very interesting and enriching experience. I learned very valuable lessons. One of them is that you should really understand your business, and then your customers. And, then, currently, there is a great shift, all over the world, in terms of the customers' behavior. New technologies like AI, digitalization, increased computational capacities, and also the new generation of customers, they have completely different preferences. So these two trends kind of changed the whole landscape. 

So you have to understand your clients, you have to understand your business within/out, know your customers. Because if you don't know you cannot lead, and you cannot restructure or do some right things without this really deep knowledge and understanding the main foundations of your business. 

The second lesson I would say that, dream big. What I learned, in reality, with great vision, with the right team, with the right strategy, with the right implementation plan, you can achieve a lot. So dreaming big it's very important. 

The third lesson I would say that always have an exit strategy, especially when you're dealing with the big structures. Together, the whole system, I managed about 10,000 employees. So this is quite big, the price of the mistake could be very high, but you cannot stop development. You have to still innovate. You still should align your business, product, services, in line with the current demands.

So you should innovate, you should do something new, but exit strategy is very important. This is your hedge, that makes sure that the whole structure won't collapse if something goes wrong, this is very important. 

Trust your team, I think team is very important. The quality of the people you are working with, their professionalism, their ethics are very important. So as soon as you set up your team, you know that you can trust your people, just let them perform. And in the banking sector, this is more important than even others because teamwork is incredible, this is very important.

I didn't see a person who can just, in one phase, cover all requirements of the banking. You need a strong CFO, you need a strong risk manager, you need a strong chief information officer, so you see this is very complex. Then you can, together, compile the team, or the professionals, who can work together, who can share the same vision, who has very good ethics, only with this one you can proceed.

So this is a very important lesson. If you are unsure about your team, don't start. Because alone you cannot perform, you cannot achieve. So I would say these are very important lessons I learned from my journey with Jusan.

Adam:            I think those are some amazing lessons. And maybe as we have this conversation, we'll be able to see how you came to those lessons at Jusan, as we talk through that journey. So when you first stepped into that challenge, they said, "Hey, we want to bring you on the Jusan Bank." What was the atmosphere like? What were some of the challenges and the immediate hurdles that you saw that you had to jump over, as you started that new part of your journey?

Yerbol:           This, actually, was very interesting. So when I took the reins of the bank, the situation was pretty horrible. So I had a feeling like starring into the beast. I just give you one example. The bank's auditors, KPMG, they came to us, after we purchased the bank, and then told us that they won't be able produce any audit report.

They said, "We have access to the accounts, but the accounts are a mess, documentation is such a mess, so we just even cannot interpret them." And the bank did not have people who can interpret and work on this one. So can you imagine?

So 2018, the year they audited, was completely a failure, and according to the regulation you still proceed because the public, the regulator, would like to know. So this is one of the example how the bank was managed. Also in terms of the business and the morale of the employees, it was a complete mess. Two year...

Join Adam Larson on the Count Me In Podcast as he sits down with the insightful Ahmed Hassan to explore how financial leadership has shot into a new era. Ahmed, an esteemed finance executive and IMA Global board member, shares how the roles in finance have shifted from traditional number-crunching to proactive, strategic business partnering.

Listen in as they discuss the impact of digital tech, COVID-19, and sustainability on financial strategies, the importance of people skills, and the rise of data analytics in decision-making. Ahmed backs up the talk with his journey in embracing change, leveraging automation for insightful analysis, and his advocacy for continuous learning through the IMA.

This episode offers a treasure trove of knowledge for finance professionals looking to adapt to the evolving demands of the industry. If you're curious about the future of financial strategy or keen on understanding the shifting focus in finance, this conversation is your must-listen. So sit back, tune in, and get inspired to take on the financial world with a fresh, informed perspective!

Full Episode Transcript:
 < Intro >

Adam:            Hello, and welcome to Count Me In. I'm Adam Larson, and today I'm joined by a distinguished guest, Ahmed Hassan, Head of Decision Support at Vodafone, Global Board Director & Middle East Committee Chair at IMA. In this episode, we'll dive into how financial leaders are expanding their influence beyond traditional roles, and embracing strategic, data-driven decision-making amidst global changes and technological advancements.

Staying ahead of the curve and fostering continuous learning have been key to navigating the landscape of finance. A world now permeated by AI, automation, and the need for dynamic skill sets. So, without further ado, let's welcome Ahmed, to share his valuable insights with us here on Count Me In.

 < Music >

Ahmed, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We're really excited to have you today, talking about FP&A, and the roles, and your experience. And to start off, I thought we could start with how has the role of financial leadership evolved, as you look over the past decades. And what are the driving forces behind those changes, in the financial leadership?

Ahmed:          So, thank you, Adam. First of all, thank you for having me today. I'm very looking forward for a very engaging and exciting discussion, so thank you for that. Thank you for the question to start with, this is a very in-time question. So as the finance roles are evoluting, and it's not only on the last decade. So I think finance roles are evoluting since almost 20 years, as we speak. So it's undergoing significant changes that is taking place in the finance role as we speak. 

This is turning the finance function from the one responsible for financial reporting, and forecasting, and the normal finance roles that used to be. To the one co-driving organizations to achieve their goals and targets. So, currently, finance leaders spend more than 50% of their time on value-adding, business partnering activities. Rather than a typical finance department role and what they used to do, a few years ago.

So now we give more focus on casting a wider net for new efficiency opportunities, as we go. Boosting finance roles in managing data, strengthening decision-making process, through widespread adoption of data visualization and data analytics.

So this is how we look into how we use that data that we have, as we speak. It's mainly for putting a very solid ground into the decision-making and driving business, as we go. And the role of finance leadership is evoluting as well as this is evoluting. So the finance leadership has been influenced by several global forces, as we speak.

So definitely with all what happened in the past few years, in terms of COVID, where we will touch base a lot on the impact of COVID and how this evoluted. The overall changes that took place in organizations and then zooming into finance in specific. And also all the changes that is taking place in the world, either from a geopolitical viewpoint, economical, and all other changes.

So there are several global forces that are impacting the finance role evolution, including the growth of digital technologies. All the changes that I just mentioned. The importance of sustainability, changing demographics, complexities that are taking place in the geopolitics, as I mentioned, and all the dependencies that are making transformation or structural transformation a must, during these times.

All these forces actually led to all the evolution that is taking place in the finance role and in the finance leadership role, as a result, as well. So this all led to a greater focus on collaboration and people-oriented leadership. As well as the need for managers to take important decisions, with input from their teams based on a very robust data analytics that is generated from the finance functions.

Adam:            I think that's a really good overview in the evolution of the finance leadership, and how the team is changing as the environment changes. And when you think about the environment changing, and the term a lot of people use is business partner. And, so, in order to do that transformation that you just talked about, you have to become that business partner.

And, so, are there key strategies that people should consider when they're trying to, "Hey, I want to become that business partner. I don't think I'm there, yet." What are some strategies that they can apply in their own roles, so that they can make sure they're becoming that? 

Ahmed:          Okay, so transitioning, which comes also as a result of what we mentioned, the evolution that took place in finance. So finance, as we speak, in different roles, are business partners. And this is not only in a function that is named business partner or decision support in finance. I think this is across all finance roles. So this will take place in FP&A, as an evolution of the role.

Definitely in all decision support roles and finance business partnering roles, in different areas of finance operations, treasury, tax, supply chain. So this is all different types of business partnering in finance. If we need to focus on what are the key skills or developments, that a finance guy should adopt to be a business partner. We can start focusing on some points. So building a strategic engagement with the business. So this is a key thing that has to take place in a finance role.

Building strong relationships with all stakeholders, is fundamental to effective engagement with different business functions. Spending time to know your stakeholders, understanding their priorities, and be ready to challenge points they may not have considered, or maybe it's not a focal point for them. While actually it's something risky that you need to highlight.

Ensuring that analysis and reporting provided is aligning to the key strategic directions that the stakeholders need to see, and not only what is accessible and meaningful to finance specific. So it's that perfect merge between finance and all the other business requirements ...

Join host Adam Larson and special guest Connie Siu, President of CDC Synectics Inc and an author, as they unpack the complexities of building a data-driven culture in the business world. Tune in to this episode to discover the essential characteristics and challenges of fostering a data-driven environment within an organization. Adam and Connie provide valuable insights and practical advice on overcoming obstacles, assessing effectiveness, and turning data into informed decisions. Get ready to explore how a data-driven culture can revolutionize your approach to business!

Full Episode Transcript:
 < Intro> 

Adam:            Welcome to another insightful episode of Count Me In. Today, we're delving into the topic of building a data-driven culture with our esteemed guest, Connie Siu, President of CDC Synectics Incorporated, and an accomplished author. Join us, as Connie shares her expertise on essential elements of data-driven culture within an organization, and the significant impact it has on today's business environment.

Stay tuned, as we explore key challenges faced during the transition, and gain valuable insights on assessing the effectiveness of a data-driven culture. This episode promises to offer valuable insights, into the power of data-driven decision-making in shaping organizational cultures and driving business success. Let's get started.

< Music >

Well, Connie, we want to thank you so much for coming back on the Count Me In podcast. And, today, we're going to be talking about data-driven culture and what that means. And, so, maybe, we can start off, you can elaborate what constitutes having a data-driven culture within an organization, and why is it essential, especially, in business today?

Connie:           That's a great start, Adam. Data-driven culture is the consistent values and beliefs in distilling insights from data to drive informed decision making, and that's happening across the whole organization. And I would offer three characteristics that you can look for, in an organization, where there's a data-driven culture. The first one is you will see individuals and teams actively asking themselves questions like, "What information we can draw on to support and guide decisions."

You will see consistent efforts devoted to pull relevant data to analyze an issue. And you will see open and frank dialogues on understanding the root cause of a problem by looking closely at KPIs.

In terms of why it is essential for businesses today, there are four factors, two external and two internal, that are important to bear in mind. The first external factor is the competitive marketplace. Companies need focused strategies to target the right markets, to differentiate themselves to compete, and they need the market intelligence to develop focused strategies.

The second external factor is digital transformation. The ability to adopt the right technologies to drive business outcomes is critical. Successful digital transformation involves using technology to capture relevant data and analyze the results. To automate processes, for instance, companies need to know what data is important and what's not.

The internal factors: The first one is operational efficiency. Businesses need to be efficient today, and we are aware that costs are going up, labor, materials. And with the current inflation, companies need to have a good handle on the numbers.

The second internal factor is the need to treat data as a strategic asset. Every business has tons of data. Imagine if you can mine the data for intelligence, they will uncover lots of opportunities to make all kinds of improvements, such as targeting high-margin niche markets. So these four factors require an appreciation of making smart choices from data analytics. It is more important than ever, to build a data-driven culture.

Adam:            Yes, I think those are some great factors to take into consideration, especially, if you recognize that your organization doesn't have that data-driven culture. Maybe we can talk about some key challenges that organizations face when they're trying to transition to that. Because it's not something that happens overnight, something that you can turn a switch and say, "Hey, we're a data-driven culture." It's something that builds over time, I'm sure.

Connie:           Yes, there are two key challenges I'd like to share. The first one is the lack of technical capabilities. And when I say technical capabilities, they include the skills to identify what data, or KPIs, are relevant to look at. They include skills to analyze the numbers. For instance, how do you know you have achieved efficiency improvement?

What would you look at to monitor process performance?

Do you want to look at the results on a weekly basis or it makes better sense to compare month-over-month changes? And there are many data points you can look at, but not all of them are relevant.

Once you have the data, you need the tools to capture, compile, and analyze them. And many companies are still using legacy systems that are not integrated. So it is a tedious and often very frustrating exercise to extract the data.

And to overcome that lack of technical capabilities, start with training. Training the fundamental skills on asking good questions to identify what data do we need to look at. Training on the skills to analyze an issue. And I would suggest training everyone from the executives to people working on the front line.

We don't need to train everyone to be a data scientist, but we do need them to have the basic skills to ask good questions. To understand what they need to look at, and become good problem solvers. And in terms of the legacy systems, there's only so much you can do patching them. Eventually, you need to invest in modern technologies, and there are so many options out there today, and there's no need, and I want to emphasize this, it's not necessary to invest in the most comprehensive ERP. The key is to find the right applications that meet your business needs.

Now, the second challenge I'd like to talk about is the lack of buy-in. When you don't have the support of the senior management team and the middle managers, it is very difficult to make that shift.

Now, middle managers are accountable for the team's performance. So that fear of poor results is natural because they reflect on their leadership skills, and no one wants to look bad.

When middle managers shy away from results reporting, they tend to do the minimal, just what is needed. Essentially they create an alignment where there's little incentive for the team to embrace analytics.

Now, when we look at the senior management team, when there's no buy-in, from them, on analytics, you tend to see an authoritative management style. Top-down decisions will become directives for the teams to execute. And in this situation, the efforts made on analytics are not valued at all.

To overcome the lack of support, start with understanding what the dynamics is today and find your champion. That champion could ...

Tune in to listen to Adam Larson as he hosts the Count Me In Podcast, featuring a special conversation with Adam Lean, the CEO and Co-Founder of TheCFOProject.com. Lean shares expert insights on transforming the role of the traditional CFO, offering practical advice and real-life success stories. Don't miss this insider's look into the future of the accounting profession!

Full Episode Transcript:
 < Intro >

Adam:            Greetings, accounting professionals. Adam Larson here, host of Count Me In, and today we embark on a transformative journey with Adam Lean, the visionary CEO of TheCFOProject.com.

Prepare to break free from the shackles of the accountants' trap. A pervasive challenge that confines so many to a transactional purgatory. In this conversation, Adam unveils a potent cocktail of liberation, strategic transformation, technology-driven empowerment, and high-value service mastery. So join us on this first podcast of 2024, and together, let's rewrite the future of accounting, one empowered professional at a time.

< Music >

Well, Adam, we're really excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast. And you are the leader at The CFO Project, and you have a podcast called the Accountants Trap, and you mention that a lot. Maybe you can start by defining what is the accountants' trap, and why is it a challenge for many firm owners today?

Adam Lean:   Yes, that's a great question. We have this saying here at The CFO Project, we want accountants to escape what we call the accountants' trap. The idea is that accountants, and when I say accountants I mean accountants, CPAs, bookkeepers, enrolled agents. Traditionally, accountants are trading time for money. In order to make more money they either have to work more hours, which there's, obviously, not many more hours you can work, or you have to take on more clients. 

Well, the thought of taking more clients on, in order to make more money is depressing to a lot of accountants. Because most clients are high-demanding, low-paying clients, and they give you all their paperwork at the very last minute, and the idea of taking on more clients is not appealing to most people. And it's a trap because you can't raise your prices. You can't raise your prices because there's always another accountant that's willing to do it cheaper than you.

And if you think about it from the viewpoint of your client, and we have to always think about it from the viewpoint of our clients. On the laundry list of things that a business owner has to think about, during the day, accounting falls towards the bottom.

They think of accounting as a commodity, in a sense. It's like a gas station; you're driving down the road and there are two gas stations next to each other, one is $0.50 higher. Most people are probably not going to go to that gas station because they view fuel as a commodity, it's interchangeable. And the same thing with accounting and bookkeeping services.

What you do, A, they really don't understand, and, B, they feel that any accountant can do it. Any accountant could put the tax return together. Any accountant can do the books. So why would they pay you more, significantly more, than the average accountant? They wouldn't.

And, so, this is the trap; to make more money you're forced to work more hours for little pay, with high-demanding clients. And, so, we suggest that there's a better way.

Adam:            I would hope so because, that would be really frustrating as time goes on, and to have to get more clients. And if you're an internal accountant, within a corporation, you have to help all the different operations of the business to get everything together, do the budget, and that can bring a different type of accountants' trap challenge.

Adam Lean:   Yes, absolutely, your candle is burning at both ends, and there's no give.

Adam:            Yes, there's no give at all. So how important is it? Because, like you said, a lot of times for owners, they don't understand the importance of the accountant. How do you change that role for the business owner, if you are the CFO, if you're the controller, you're within the organization, and you're trying to say, "Hey, this is an important part." How do you help change that view, at the top of the organization?

Adam Lean:   Yes, this is the frustrating part because accountants are very valuable, they're needed. But the people that use accountants; so the company you work for or your client, if you have a business, and if you work for clients, they don't view it that way. Which, again, goes to what I was talking about with the accountants' trap. They don't view what you do as important as they should. Having great books is important, it's needed. And what you do to ensure that the books are kept accurately and timely, and the taxes are filed, is very important. 

But until your client, whether it's your boss or whether it's your actual clients, business owner clients, until they view you and your work as highly valuable, they're not going to pay for that. So the idea is to shift in your client's mind, in your constituent's mind, your value.

So instead of being thought of as the person that just keeps the books or that just does the taxes. Because you have to remember that your client doesn't really understand what you do. You know what you do, and so you know all the effort and time and energy you pour into it, but they don't. So they're not going to place the value on it as much. 

But if they can wrap their mind around your value, then, they will find you more valuable. Which means they'll pay you more and you can escape the trap. So the idea is to be the financial professional, in your client's life, that they actually want. And what is it that most business owners want? They want someone that they can trust, to tell them what to do to have a growing and successful business.

So if you, as the accountant, can be that person that a client trusts to tell them what to do. To give advice on something that they really care about, which is their business, then, your stock with them will go dramatically up.

They'll pay you as much as you command, as much as you want, and they will not think of you as just the person that records the books or just this commoditized, necessary evil that I've got to pay. And they'll start to view you as somebody that's a trusted confidant, an advisor, somebody they want to talk to every month.

Adam:            Yes, that advisor, the term that we use a lot is that business partner. You want to be that business partner, not just the number cruncher.

Adam Lean:   That's right. You'll still provide the same value, that in your mind they need, which is accurate books, taxes. But you're going to shift the value in your client's mind. Which, I mean, let's be honest, it's really the only thing that matters is your client perception of you. That's what's going to pay the bills. If you...

Tune in to the latest episode Count Me In, where host Adam Larson brings you an engaging conversation with some of finance's leading voices in India. We're thrilled to feature Sunil Deshmukh, IMA’s Chair Elect boasting over three decades of global business management expertise, and the astute Sandhya Sriram, Group CFO of Narayana Health, renowned as one of India's Top 100 Women in Finance. 

In this episode, Sunil shares his distinctive perspective on sustainable finance’s competitive edges, such as improved global market access and cost of capital benefits. Sandhya, on the other hand, offers a deep dive into the real-world applications of ESG strategies within large organizations, while addressing the intricate issues surrounding ESG disclosure transparency.

With this powerhouse duo, you're privy to a rich discussion that spans everything from the transformative ESG initiatives at Narayana Health to the visionary roadmap laid out for sustainable finance under India's G20 presidency.

Don’t just listen, be part of this enlightening session. Whether you're a CFO grappling with ESG strategy, or simply intrigued by the evolution of sustainable business practices, this is an unmissable dialogue loaded with experience and insight. Plug in and join us for a compelling narrative where finance and responsibility converge.

Full Episode Transcript:
< Intro >

Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we're diving deep into a topic that's reshaping the corporate landscape in India, ESG, or Environmental, Social, Governance, factors and their growing influence. We have two esteemed guests joining us. First, Sunil Deshmukh, who is IMA's chair-elect and an expert with over 30 years of global experience in business management. Also, we have Sandhya Sriram, the group's CFO for Narayana Health, and she is among India's top 100 women in finance.

In this episode, we're not only looking at the current regulations and the evolution of reporting requirements. But also how Indian markets are responding to the pressing need for ESG integration in risk management and long-term sustainability. Sunil will highlight the rewards tied to sustainable finance, has enhanced global reputation and reduced capital costs. While Sandhya will shed light on the practical challenges and opportunities like achieving transparency in ESG disclosure, and leveraging sustainable solutions through startups.

Get ready to impact the complexities and innovations within the world of ESG, with insights from the CFO's desk. As the G20 turns its eyes to India for sustainable finance directives, we, too, focus on how Indian companies can translate these directives into competitive advantages. Let's get started.

 
 < Music >

Sandhya and Sunil, I'm so excited to have you both on the podcast, today, as we talk about ESG, and especially ESG in the Indian market. And to just jump right into the conversation, how would you describe the importance of ESG integration, within financial strategies for companies operating in the Indian market?

Sunil:              Thank you very much, Adam. A great question, very relevant question to the Indian market conditions. Before we get into the formal discussion, I would say that the concept of triple bottom line was already existing in the world before ESG, which was coined by John Elkinton in 1994. Where we used to talk about 3P's, Profit, People, and Planet. I would say that ESG is a formal expansion of that concept, which has come into the existence.

Now, ESG is in existence in India, I would say right from 2011. Indian Companies Act Department or, Ministry of Corporate Affairs, as well as the Securities and Exchange Board of India, have been coming out with different regulations, different advisories, guidelines, and some reporting requirements by Securities and Exchange Board of India, on this topic. 

Now, you asked me the question about the importance of ESG in financial strategies. I would say that in today's world, almost all companies in their financial strategies start with a concept of risk management first. And when we talk about the risk management, one of the most important strategy that comes is the sustainability. Whether your business is going to be sustained for a longer period of time or not. And there comes the ESG, which is of course sustainability pertaining to environment, risk relating to the environment, risk relating to the social, which is typically the people. And, of course, the governance, which is more of a compliance risk based on the requirements of the stock market or government regulations, and all those things. 

So I would say that most of the companies start with integrating the ESG in their risk management strategy, and from there they take it. And, in today's world, ESG has become very important not only from a financial strategy point of view or a business strategy point of view, but also accessibility to the capital. If you want to access the capital at the world level or global market, and if you want to have a cheap capital or affordable capital as compared to the market prices, I think sustainability and ESG is going to play a very important… 

ESG strategy integrated into a financial strategy, will help the companies have a competitive advantage as compared to their competitors. It will also help the companies to have a long-term sustainability strategy. And we also talk in finance domain, that every single business is supposed to have a going concern concept or is a perpetual continuation.

So from that point of view, ESG will help companies to look into, naturally, how long the business strategy is going to sustain and stabilize. So long-term aspect of ESG is also going to help the companies in their financial strategy.

Other small things, or other very important but small things, which are helping companies due to ESG is talent retention. The today's generation Z employees, they don't want to work for companies which are not following the people strategies or governance strategies. So talent acquisition and talent retention is one area.

I would say supply chain resilience. In today's world, the Indian companies use global supply chain. We import a lot of raw material. So if we have a sustainability strategy, in the global supply chain, that's also going to help the companies. And, obviously, the last but not the least is the stakeholder engagement. 

And when I say stakeholder engagement, it could be your customers, it could be your suppliers, it could be your employees, it could be government, a municipal corporation, and, of course, shareholders, investors of the company. All these stakeholders are looking at ESG as a strategy from a long-term continuity, as well as comprehensive success formula for the company.

Adam:            Now, I think that's an amazing overview of where to look at things from a 10,000-foot point of view, to see how everything's working within the organization. Now, Sandhya, as a CFO, how do you perceive your role changing and developing, especially, as you try to implement these strategies and some of the things that Sunil talked about?