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    Episode #190 ... Are emotions a waste of time? - Neo-Stoicism (Martha Nussbaum)

    enNovember 27, 2023

    Podcast Summary

    • The Emotional Turmoil of Betrayal: A Tale of HecubaBetrayal can lead to devastating consequences, including grief, vengeance, and emotional turmoil. Stoicism, an ancient philosophical practice, can help individuals manage their emotions and find inner peace.

      The ancient Greek story of Hecuba, as told by Martha Nussbaum, serves as a powerful reminder of the emotional turmoil and betrayal that can occur when trust is broken. Hecuba, the queen of Troy, sends her son Polydorus to a supposed friend's kingdom with a chest of gold, only to discover that the friend had betrayed them both and killed Polydorus, stealing the gold. Overwhelmed by grief and vengeance, Hecuba blinds the king in retaliation. This tragic story highlights the destructive consequences of betrayal and the importance of managing emotions, particularly in the context of modern-day relationships and digital interactions. In recent times, the philosophical practice of stoicism has gained popularity as a means to help individuals navigate their emotions and find inner peace amidst the uncertainties of life.

    • Stoicism: Detachment and ReasonStoicism encourages detachment from external events and emotions, focusing on personal control and reason, recognizing emotions as appraisals of external objects, and striving for a balanced approach to life.

      Key takeaway from the discussion on stoicism is that it encourages detachment from external events and emotions, focusing instead on personal control and reason. Stoicism, as practiced by philosophers like Epictetus, Seneca, and Marcus Aurelius, emphasizes the idea that emotions are judgments we make about external events and that we cannot control these events. Instead, we can only control how we react to them. The stoic view of emotions as something to be skeptical of and reason as the guiding force has been a recurring theme in Western thought. However, it's important to note that stoicism offers a more nuanced view of emotions than simply dismissing them as useless. Emotions, according to philosopher Martha Nussbaum, are appraisals of external objects as important for our needs and well-being. Therefore, they are not to be ignored but rather understood and managed with reason. Stoicism encourages us to recognize the dichotomy between reason and emotions and to strive for a balanced approach to life.

    • Neo-Stoicism: Modernized Stoic Ethics with Emotions and Personal HistoryNeo-Stoicism recognizes emotions as cognitive judgments about value and importance, necessary for advanced moral thinking, and integral to human functioning.

      Martha Nussbaum argues for a modernized version of Stoic ethics, called neo-stoicism, by incorporating the advancements in natural sciences and acknowledging the importance of emotions and personal history. Emotions, according to Nussbaum, are not irrational acts but cognitive judgments about value and importance. They are necessary for advanced moral thinking and cannot be separated from reason. Stoics believed emotions were external events beyond our control, but Nussbaum challenges this view, stating that we do need cars, food, medical care, and other material resources to function in life. Emotions are our appraisals of these realities, and ignoring them would mean denying our fundamental needs as human beings. By recognizing the role of emotions and personal history, neo-stoicism offers a more complete and effective ethical framework.

    • The role of emotions in ethical theoryEmotions shape our reactions based on personal history and development, making it essential to consider them in ethical theory. Nussbaum's neo-stoicism emphasizes this importance.

      Martha Nussbaum argues that emotions are an integral part of human experience and cannot be ignored in ethical theory. Stoicism, an ancient philosophy that advocates for emotional detachment, is missing an essential component by not considering the role of personal history and emotional development in shaping our reactions. Nussbaum uses the example of psychoanalysis to illustrate how modern psychology can enhance stoicism by understanding the emotional repertoire formed during development. Even as newborns, we exhibit narcissistic tendencies, but the experience of witnessing our caregivers attend to someone else can lead to the first feelings of jealousy and the recognition of others. Our emotional responses are shaped by our individual histories, and ignoring this aspect would result in an incomplete ethical theory. Therefore, Nussbaum's neo-stoicism emphasizes the importance of considering emotions in their developmental context.

    • Understanding the Value of CompassionStoicism and other philosophies have debated the value of compassion, but contemporary philosopher Martha Nussbaum argues it's infinitely valuable as a painful emotion triggered by another's undeserved misfortune.

      While philosophies like stoicism aim to help individuals manage emotions, it doesn't necessarily mean rejecting emotions altogether. Instead, a nuanced approach, such as neo-stoicism, can provide insight into the value of emotions, like compassion. Historically, philosophers like the stoics, Kant, and Nietzsche had reservations about compassion, not because they were uncaring, but due to its potential to compromise the other person's integrity or being too particular for moral guidance. However, contemporary philosopher Martha Nussbaum argues that compassion, defined as a painful emotion triggered by another's undeserved misfortune, can be infinitely valuable. Despite these philosophical debates, compassion remains a universally admired emotion in today's society. It's essential to remember that each philosophical perspective offers unique insights, and a balanced understanding of emotions can lead to wisdom and growth.

    • Expanding Moral Horizons with CompassionCompassion helps us understand morality, identify missing rights, and improve relationships, distinguishing it from rigid moral guides and leading to a more compassionate and morally enriched life.

      Martha Nussbaum advocates for compassion as a means to expand moral horizons and care for those beyond our immediate circles. Compassion is not a rigid moral guide but a vehicle for understanding the essence of morality. It can help individuals and societies identify missing rights and guide policy development. Although classical stoics had mixed feelings about compassion, their concept of cosmopolitanism aligns with Nussbaum's neo-stoic perspective. Furthermore, Nussbaum distinguishes between shame and guilt, suggesting that the latter is more productive. Shame focuses on the self and can lead to isolation, while guilt motivates us to make amends and improve relationships. By understanding these emotions and their implications, we can live more compassionate and morally enriched lives.

    • Understanding the impact of shame and guiltShame leads to self-focused embarrassment and disgrace, while guilt acknowledges the impact of our actions on others and motivates us to make amends. Reframing shame as guilt can shift focus from personal reputation to the person affected.

      Our emotions, specifically shame and guilt, can significantly impact our perception of ourselves and our actions towards others. According to philosopher Martha Nussbaum, shame arises when we hold ourselves to unattainable ideals and perfection, leading to a self-focused feeling of embarrassment and disgrace. On the other hand, guilt acknowledges the impact of our actions on others and motivates us to make amends. While neither emotion is desirable, Nussbaum suggests that guilt is a better emotion for building a society where individuals consider each other's rights and well-being. When experiencing shame, we can try to reframe it as guilt to shift our focus from our personal reputation to the person we have affected. This neo-stoic perspective broadens our understanding of emotions and their role in shaping our interactions with the world.

    • Martha Nussbaum's Critique of Modern Emotions in Political PhilosophyMartha Nussbaum advocates for a capabilities approach in political philosophy, focusing on maximizing human potential through diverse capabilities, rather than reducing emotions to a univariate concept and relying on social contract theory.

      Martha Nussbaum argues against reducing emotions to a univariate concept and applying it to political philosophy. She criticizes the modern Western culture's reliance on social contract theory, which assumes everyone is a healthy, autonomous individual. Instead, Nussbaum advocates for a capabilities approach inspired by Aristotle, focusing on maximizing human potential to live rich and flourishing lives. This includes the ability to love, be educated, think well, be moral, have play, develop senses, and express emotions. Nussbaum emphasizes the importance of accommodating diverse human capabilities, such as those with physical and mental disabilities, to ensure everyone can reach their full potential. She doesn't suggest government intervention but rather structuring society to enable individuals to access the resources necessary for a flourishing life.

    • The Transformation of Hecuba: Losing Trust and HumanityHuman experiences of adversity and betrayal can lead to the loss of trust and essential humanity, hindering personal growth and the full exploration of the human condition.

      Life's challenges and adversities can test even the strongest moral character. Hecuba, a character from Greek mythology, serves as an example of this. Despite facing numerous hardships, she remained a moral person until she discovered her friend had killed her son for money. This betrayal left Hecuba feeling that nothing could be trusted anymore, leading her to seek vengeance and ultimately transforming her into a dog. Martha Nussbaum explains that this transformation is a metaphor for sacrificing an essential piece of humanity - the ability to trust and the openness to the world - in the face of extreme circumstances. As humans, we may be tempted to retreat into simpler or more comfortable solutions to deal with our feelings or the complexities of the world, but doing so may hinder our growth and prevent us from fully experiencing the human condition.

    • Embrace the Contemplative Life for Personal GrowthPracticing contemplation helps us face emotions and situations with a clear, non-judgmental mind, leading to personal growth and taking responsibility for our lives.

      In today's digital world, it's easy to fall into the traps of reason or cynicism when dealing with complex emotions and vulnerabilities. However, these approaches don't lead to personal growth. Instead, adopting the contemplative life, or vita contemplativa, can help us face our fears and emotions head-on. By looking at everything around us with a clear and non-judgmental mind, we can gain a deeper understanding of ourselves and the world around us. This approach, unlike reason or cynicism, empowers us to take responsibility for our lives and improve our situations. So, the next time you're faced with challenging emotions or situations, try practicing contemplation instead of retreating into reason or cynicism.

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    Transcription

    Hi there, Dr. Debi here, and today I want to talk about setting a good example. And I'm saying it because I caught myself not setting a good example. Whether you have kids, a team, anyone that you're trying to set an example for, I'm going to share what happened with me, so you can prevent something like this from happening to you.

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     Is there a team or group that you're a part of? And you’re in a work scenario or where you're contributing in some way or something that you're doing throughout your day, where you're not showing up the way you want to? And, if you put the time, effort, in a little bit differently, (not more but differently), you could have a much different result? I invite you to take a look. Because, certainly I caught myself doing that, and I did not like what I found.

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     I want to thank you so much for this Dose of Dr Debi it's certainly what I learned this week about myself and check in for so much more. Coming at you every week with the From Betrayal to Breakthrough podcast and these little short doses of little nuggets that I've learned about members within our community or myself.

     Subscribe, rate and review if you're enjoying the podcast, please tell your friends. And if we can support you within The PBT Institute, Oh my gosh there's really no place like it. We have live daily classes with certified coaches- we have one practitioner who's been a therapist for 37 years. We have, coaches and practitioners who specialize in trauma, chronic pain, in addiction, in reconciliation, in narcissism, in divorce. We are bringing together the most brilliant experts to teach you every single day. Our lowest level membership is $97 a month, so if you want to, you can go to, I think we have something like 15 to 20 live classes at this point in time, live classes a week.

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     Thank you so much and I'll see you next time. Bye.

     

    Resources Mentioned

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    Post Betrayal Syndrome Quiz

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    Trust Again: Overcoming Betrayal and Regaining Health, Confidence and Happiness
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    "I don’t own my emotions";

    Climate change as humyns forgetting how to belong;

    PEACE as a fluctuating state (like the seasons and emotions);

    Welcoming my anxious parts;

    Being a part of the earth system and the internal system;

    Being PART of community;

    Meditation & rest;

    “I’m too busy to rest and slow down”;

    The dominator/colonial mindset (the anthropocentric mindset);

    Remembering how to belong (to self and community);

    Remembering how to be apart of the non-humyn community;

    Decolonization (starts within—how I treat my self, my body, my emotions);

    Inner peace is outer peace;

    Realigning the inner parts;

    Where I’m at is exactly where I’m at (honouring that);

    Welcoming in all of my parts and emotions;

    Being a part of a humyn system that is beyond us (which is actively destroying & harming the planet and ourselves);

    The first step is saying “whoa, I’m stuck” and honouring that and BEing there;

    AND MORE.

    Recorded April 16, 2022.

    This is a PATREON Bonus Episode!  Go to www.patreon.com/feelinweird to listen to every bonus episode.

    Here's a list of EVERY regular & bonus Feelin Weird episode :)

    *Please consider contributing $5-50/month to support the show (and receive ~100 bonus episodes)

    Stoicism: recruit people into your joy and pain

    Stoicism: recruit people into your joy and pain

    On today's episode we discuss:

    • ny police officer suicides
    • why Phillipinos have the lowest suicide rates
    • the least emotional country
    • why you should hike Yosemite
    • the problem and promise of kundalini yoga
    • how to identify your 7 core emotions
    • how to invite others into how you feel


    BOOKS MENTIONED:

    Unbroken https://amzn.to/2JaH15V

    The Culture Code https://amzn.to/2NmyLlh


    Suicide Prevention Center (Los Angeles)

    877-727-4747


    National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

    800-273-TALK [800-273-8255]

    1-800-SUICIDE [800-784-2433]


    Teen Line (Los Angeles)

    800-852-8336


    The Trevor Project (LGBTQ Youth Hotline)

    866-488-7386


    National Domestic Violence Hotline

    800-799-SAFE [800-799-7233]


    Crisis Text Line

    Text "Connect" to 741741 in the USA


    Lifeline Chat

    https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/chat/


    BOOKS MENTIONED:

    Unbroken https://amzn.to/2JaH15V

    The Culture Code https://amzn.to/2NmyLlh