Episode 57: Horror and the Bible with Brandon Grafius

Do you feel like you belong at your church? Have you found your people? Do you feel at home?

 

In this episode we explore how much dogma, belief, diversity, relatability and stage of life determine whether we feel 'at home' in church. 

Along the way we ask what makes a really good home group (spoiler: it may be Jonty and Malky), we discuss  wehter the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints is right for people who dislike Joseph Smith, and Laura stages a coup d' podcast with the help of her fancy new mic. 

Identity, dogma, community and inclusion, all in this episode of Beer Christianity. 

 

Is the essence of Christianity basically Judaism through a Zen lens? Can we understand some great artists and theologians better if we assume performative masculinity? Is there really a crack in everything? Is it where the light gets in? 

In Episode 92 of Beer Christianity we answer these and other important questions (like: Is later Leonard Cohen better than his earlier oeuvre? Is Avalanche the most devastatingly romantic song in history? Do you know what I'm thinking and who does vengeance belong to?) with Matthew Anderson, Pauline scholar, Leonard Cohen aficionado and author of Prophets of Love: The Unlikely Kinship of Leonard Cohen and the Apostle Paul. 

New to Beer Christianity? Welcome!

Beer Christianity is an anti-capitalist, pro-BLM, pro-LGBTQ+, anti-imperialist, post-post-post-evangelical podcast where we drink a bit and talk a lot. Our aim is to be real, to be helpful and entertaining.

Follow Beer Christianity on Twitter: @beerxianity and find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube. 

Beer Christianity also has a newsletter in which Jonty and guest authors comment on the news, theological issues and stuff that matters. 

Sign up to the Beer Christianity newsletter on Substack. 

There's a connected Show With Music on Spotify called New Old Music. Check it out if you like eclectic music and weird chat. It's not terribly serious. 

Jonty's novel, Incredulous Moshoeshoe and the Lightning Bird, is not available in all good bookshops, but if you bought it and left a review that would probably make that more likely. 

We don't really want to preach at you, but some people like to know what we believe. It's this: Jesus Christ is the Son of God and came to teach us a better way to be while reconciling us to God and each other in a way we could never do without Him. He also changed water into wine. Nice. 

 

AI is going to save the world. Or kill us all. Or another, secret, third thing.

Trying to find a pattern of truth within all the cultural noise about Artificial Intelligence is pretty hard right now, so we turned to someone who has been working on and with AI since the 1980s.

Jean-Louis Ecochard has been in on the development of everythting from caller ID and online banking to video conferencing and e-health, and was one of the people behind what became WebMD. He now heads up the Center for the Digital Nonprofit and is Senior Head of Innovation for Nethope, an organisation that acts as a bridge between large NGOs with Big Tech. 

He's also a whole lot of fun, and helped us reframe our thinking about AI.

In this episode, we asked JL about the dangerous intersection between capitalism and AI (of course we did), the ethics of big data and what, if anything, humanity has to fear from this latest great jump forward in technology.

It's a fascinating conversation that we hope will help you think about this much-hyped subject in a fresh way.

We should also make clear that, if we didn't like JL so much or think this might reflect badly on him, this is the title we would have gone for:

See the kind of restraint we show? You are all very welcome. 

You can find out more about the Center for the Digital Nonprofit, its mission and research here. 

We also recommend The Eye of the Master: a Social History of Artificial Intelligence for a left-wing academic take of what, really, is being automated. 

 

New to Beer Christianity? Welcome!

Beer Christianity is an anti-capitalist, pro-BLM, pro-LGBTQ+, anti-imperialist, post-post-post-evangelical podcast where we drink a bit and talk a lot. Our aim is to be real, to be helpful and entertaining.

Follow Beer Christianity on Twitter: @beerxianity and find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube. 

Beer Christianity also has a newsletter in which Jonty and guest authors comment on the news, theological issues and stuff that matters. 

Sign up to the Beer Christianity newsletter on Substack. 

There's a connected Show With Music on Spotify called New Old Music. Check it out if you like eclectic music and weird chat. It's not terribly serious. 

Jonty's novel, Incredulous Moshoeshoe and the Lightning Bird, is not available in all good bookshops, but if you bought it and left a review that would probably make that more likely. 

We don't really want to preach at you, but some people like to know what we believe. It's this: Jesus Christ is the Son of God and came to teach us a better way to be while reconciling us to God and each other in a way we could never do without Him. He also changed water into wine. Nice. 

Socialism means 'bad', right?  That's what many of our churches assume. Whenever anyone suggests Socialism as an option, many Christians have a set of anti-Socialist questions locked and loaded, ready to fire. We decided to put some of them to an expert.

To us, Socialism is really just a system of making sure nobody is left behind, of controlling greed and making sure it doesn't result in needless suffering. 

It's not a perfect system/ideology (and there are many variations, versions and expressions), but if you've ever felt like the Capitalist system most of us live under is not working, this episode may be for you.

In it, we talk to Matt McManus, a lecturer in Political Science at the University of Michigan, and ask him for his responses to the most common Christian chestnuts (roasting on an open fire) that make Socialism out to be the devil. 

Questions we ask in this episode:

• What about 'If you will not work you will not eat'?
• Isn't forcing people to be generous bad?
• Shouldn't Christians and churches help the poor rather than governments?
• Without the threat of poverty, won't people be lazy?
• If society got better, how would hte Church witness?

Matt helps us understand Socialism, the long and rich history of Christian Socialism, and some potential answers to common objections to Socialism, while having a beer with Jonty. Malky and Laura were either unavailable or have become filthy capitalists. You decide.

Check out Matt McManus' writing for Jacobin magazine and his book, The Political Right and Equality.

You can find more from Beer Christianity at beerchristianity.co.uk, on most social media and on Substack.

 

New to Beer Christianity? Welcome!

Beer Christianity is an anti-capitalist, pro-BLM, pro-LGBTQ+, anti-imperialist, post-post-post-evangelical podcast where we drink a bit and talk a lot. Our aim is to be real, to be helpful and entertaining.

Follow Beer Christianity on Twitter: @beerxianity and find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube. 

Beer Christianity also has a newsletter in which Jonty and guest authors comment on the news, theological issues and stuff that matters. 

Sign up to the Beer Christianity newsletter on Substack. 

There's a connected Show With Music on Spotify called New Old Music. Check it out if you like eclectic music and weird chat. It's not terribly serious. 

Jonty's novel, Incredulous Moshoeshoe and the Lightning Bird, is not available in all good bookshops, but if you bought it and left a review that would probably make that more likely. 

We don't really want to preach at you, but some people like to know what we believe. It's this: Jesus Christ is the Son of God and came to teach us a better way to be while reconciling us to God and each other in a way we could never do without Him. He also changed water into wine. Nice. 

 

The Democratic Republic of Congo and its citizens should, by rights, be among the richest in the world.

Congo is a country with vast and rich natural resources, abundant  potential energy and a strategic place in the heart of Africa. And yet, Congo is currently home to one fo the worst humanitarian crises on earth, and its history is littered with genocides and wars that rival the scale of Europe's World Wars. The vast majority of Congo's people are not rich -- and many face brutality we cannot imagine. 

Since 1998, more than six million people have been killed in Congo, and the killing continues. And yet most of us have never seen a headline about it. 

In this episode, we talk to Maurice Carney, head and co-founder of Friends of the Congo, which seeks to raise awareness not only of the crisis in Congo, but of Congo's many great contributions to global life and the inspiring people who are doing amazing work there. 

Maurice talks to us about Congo's history, from the brutal period under Belgium's King Leopold II to the moment Western powers destroyed Congo's democracy and the current crisis, where Congo's neighbours continue to destabilise the East of DRC. 

We also talk about the connections between the Congolese situation and other crises around the world - like Palestine. And about the solidarity being shown between activists for all these causes. 

Covering topics like Reparations, Chinese involvement in Africa and how our own Governments might be facilitating violence in Congo, this is a fascinating episode. We learned a lot! We hope you doo, too. 

You can find out more about Friends of the Congo here and connect with their socials here: FotC Facebook,  @CongoFriends on Twitter and their presence on Insta.

You can find more about this episode at beerchristianity.co.uk

New to Beer Christianity? Welcome!

Beer Christianity is an anti-capitalist, pro-BLM, pro-LGBTQ+, anti-imperialist, post-post-post-evangelical (and apparently republican) podcast where we drink a bit and talk a lot. Our aim is to be real, to be helpful and entertaining.

Follow Beer Christianity on Twitter: @beerxianity and find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube and Stitcher. 

If you leave us a voicenote at speakpipe.com/beerchristianity we might air your question on an episode.

Beer Christianity also has a newsletter in which Jonty and guest authors comment on the news, theological issues and stuff that matters. 

Sign up to the Beer Christianity newsletter on Substack. 

There's a connected Show With Music on Spotify called New Old Music. Check it out if you like eclectic music and weird chat. It's not terribly serious. 

Jonty's novel, Incredulous Moshoeshoe and the Lightning Bird, is not available in all good bookshops, but if you bought it and left a review that would probably make that more likely. 

We don't really want to preach at you, but some people like to know what we believe. It's this: Jesus Christ is the Son of God and came to teach us a better way to be while reconciling us to God and each other in a way we could never do without Him. He also changed water into wine. Nice. 

 

Jolyon Maugham has been called 'Public Enemy No. 1" by terrible right wing newspapers, attacked by Rishi Sunak and belittled with smears by the BBC. 

And if that wasn't enough to make you love him, he also heads up an organisation that works for justice in our laws and legal system, challenging powerful elites and holding wealthy corporations and careless governments to account on behalf of ordinary people. Come to think of it, the smears on his name may have something to do with that.

Jolyon joined us to talk about the most popular of the slurs he's faced and the story behind it, as well as his work with the Good Law Project, a not for profit campaign organisation that uses the law for a better world.

Jolyon talks about the unhealthy closeness between the executive and the police, whether newspapers and government officials really care about free speech and how the law can be used to make the world a better place from gender based violence to tax law. 

This interview was made possible by the lovely people at Greenbelt festival and you can hear Jolyon's talk at Greenbelt 2023 here for just three British pounds. 

You can buy Jolyon Maugham's book, Bringing Down Goliath here and follow him on Twitter here.  

You can find more about this episode at beerchristianity.co.uk

New to Beer Christianity? Welcome!

Beer Christianity is an anti-capitalist, pro-BLM, pro-LGBTQ+, post-post-post-evangelical (and apparently republican) podcast where we drink a bit and talk a lot. Our aim is to be real, to be helpful and entertaining.

Follow Beer Christianity on Twitter: @beerxianity and find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube and Stitcher. 

If you leave us a voicenote at speakpipe.com/beerchristianity we might air your question on an episode.

Beer Christianity also has a newsletter in which Jonty and guest authors comment on the news, theological issues and stuff that matters. 

Sign up to the Beer Christianity newsletter on Substack. 

There's a connected Show With Music on Spotify called New Old Music. Check it out if you like eclectic music and weird chat. It's not terribly serious. 

Jonty's novel, Incredulous Moshoeshoe and the Lightning Bird, is not available in all good bookshops, but if you bought it and left a review that would probably make that more likely. 

We don't really want to preach at you, but some people like to know what we believe. It's this: Jesus Christ is the Son of God and came to teach us a better way to be while reconciling us to God and each other in a way we could never do without Him. He also changed water into wine. Nice. 

That's a nice patriarchy you got there. Be a shame if someone were to smash it...

Whether your church is complementarian, soft complementarian, egalitarian or has never thought about the distinction, the odds are good that patriarchy is damaging people in your fellowship, and damaging the witness and ministry of your church.

In this episode we examine how this happens, and why - and what we can do about it, taking our lead from author Liz Cooledge Jenkins. Her book, Nice Churchy Patriarchy: Reclaiming Women's Humanity From Evangelicalism, is an excellent starting place (with an excellent further reading list) for anyone wanting to examine their faith and faith community and how it may be hurting or holding women back.

Liz is an absolute legend and exceptionally gracious and fun as we navigate these important waters with her, asking:

Can complementarianism ever be healthy? What should someone questioning their faith because of patriarchal church do? What can men do to be helpful? How funny can a podcast about fighting oppression really be?

The answers may surprise you!

You can find out more about the book and read more of Liz's thoughts at lizcooledgejenkins.com

 

New to Beer Christianity? Welcome!

Beer Christianity is an anti-capitalist, pro-BLM, pro-LGBTQ+, post-post-post-evangelical (and apparently republican) podcast where we drink a bit and talk a lot. Our aim is to be real, to be helpful and entertaining.

Follow Beer Christianity on Twitter: @beerxianity and find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube and Stitcher. 

If you leave us a voicenote at speakpipe.com/beerchristianity we might air your question on an episode.

Beer Christianity also has a newsletter in which Jonty and guest authors comment on the news, theological issues and stuff that matters. 

Sign up to the Beer Christianity newsletter on Substack. 

There's a connected Show With Music on Spotify called New Old Music. Check it out if you like eclectic music and weird chat. It's not terribly serious. 

Jonty's novel, Incredulous Moshoeshoe and the Lightning Bird, is not available in all good bookshops, but if you bought it and left a review that would probably make that more likely. 

We don't really want to preach at you, but some people like to know what we believe. It's this: Jesus Christ is the Son of God and came to teach us a better way to be while reconciling us to God and each other in a way we could never do without Him. He also changed water into wine. Nice. 

A few weeks ago, Malky and Jonty travelled to London to take part in a large (though it turns out not the largest) march to protest the continued Israeli bombing of civilians in Gaza and the ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestine through Occupation and settlements.

 

 

It was peaceful. It wass diverse. It included Jewish groups, Christians, trade unions, trans people, queer people, liberals, socialists and a whole bunch more. It was  pretty damn wholesome. 

Laura was there in spirit.

Since then, Suella Braverman has called these peaceful demonstrations 'hate-marches' and said that wishing for Palestine to be free is anti-Semitic. It isn't and they weren't. 

Anti-Semitism is an evil we actively oppose. As is Apartheid. As is genocide.

So we and a hundred thousand other people marched. And the next week, hundreds of thousands marched. Our government has been weak in its response (except in condemnations of and threats to protesters, which were energetic), and the 'Opposition' as right-wing and uninterested in human rights as we have come to expect. 

This episode is just a discussion of what it was like at the march (with a little recording of us while we were there) and what the reactions, good and bad, have been. We also hear a little from a Palestinian friend of the show.  

We're all very tired (for reasons explained in the audio) but we cover some important ground in this shorter than usual episode. We hope you like it. 

You can listen to our episode with our friend Ehab here. 

Please pray for:

• A ceasefire and end to the military attack on a civilian population
• Protection for those still alive in Gaza
• The safe release of Israeli and international hostages
• All those who mourn
• Justice for Palestinians in Israel, Palestine and the OPT
• An end to the evil of Anti-Semitism
• An end to the evil of Islamophobia
• An end to Apartheid, racism and oppression
• The doctors and aid workers trying to help a brutalised population
• Softening of hearts in Israel, the West and among all those tempted to hate
• Individuals and groups showing courage to speak out when government and media seem to be against them
• Jewish communities to feel safe
• Arab communities to feel safe
• Europe, the UK and USA to find moral courage to stop the violence
• The Church to awaken to justice in this issue and repent of our complicity in oppression
• For God to have mercy on the weak

 

Free Palestine. 

 

 

New to Beer Christianity? Welcome!

Beer Christianity is an anti-capitalist, pro-BLM, pro-LGBTQ+, post-post-post-evangelical (and apparently republican) podcast where we drink a bit and talk a lot. Our aim is to be real, to be helpful and entertaining.

Follow Beer Christianity on Twitter: @beerxianity and find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube and Stitcher. 

If you leave us a voicenote at speakpipe.com/beerchristianity we might air your question on an episode.

Beer Christianity also has a newsletter in which Jonty and guest authors comment on the news, theological issues and stuff that matters. 

Sign up to the Beer Christianity newsletter on Substack. 

There's a connected Show With Music on Spotify called New Old Music. Check it out if you like eclectic music and weird chat. It's not terribly serious. 

Jonty's novel, Incredulous Moshoeshoe and the Lightning Bird, is not available in all good bookshops, but if you bought it and left a review that would probably make that more likely. 

We don't really want to preach at you, but some people like to know what we believe. It's this: Jesus Christ is the Son of God and came to teach us a better way to be while reconciling us to God and each other in a way we could never do without Him. He also changed water into wine. Nice. 

Steve Tinning is a Baptist Minister, a Public Issues Enabler for the Baptist Union of Great Britain and one of the team that makes Beer and Hymns happen at Greenbelt festival. 

Steve is a lovely chap and talks to us about his secondment to JPIT (the Joint Public Issues Team of the Baptist, URC and Methodist churches), issues of asylum and refugee response, and about different responses to Ukrainian and other groups of refugees.

But we also got him on the show to talk about one of our favourite things: Beer and Hymns. Steve tells us a little about the origins and spread of the idea, how he came to be involved and the deep, thorough and extensive philosophy behind it.

He also has ideas abouthow you can run a Beer and Hymns (or Beer and Carols) in a pub near you! 

Also, given that Israel, at time of recording, was still bombing the trapped and overwhelmingly civilian population of Gaza, we also talked about Palestine and standing with Palestinians. Steve Tinning denounces Hamas, you'll be pleased to know.

This episode runs a little long because Jonty and Steve argued a little, and also because we wanted to include some clips of Beer and Hymns in the wild. Included are audio tracks from Greenbelt 2023 , Greenbelt 2013 (featuring Dave Ball) and from the White House pub in Oxford, hosting St Aldates' Beer and Hymns (a more sedate and civilised affair than the Jesus Arms version) a few weeks ago.

 

New to Beer Christianity? Welcome!

Beer Christianity is an anti-capitalist, pro-BLM, pro-LGBTQ+, post-post-post-evangelical (and apparently republican) podcast where we drink a bit and talk a lot. Our aim is to be real, to be helpful and entertaining.

Follow Beer Christianity on Twitter: @beerxianity and find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube and Stitcher. 

If you leave us a voicenote at speakpipe.com/beerchristianity we might air your question on an episode.

Beer Christianity also has a newsletter in which Jonty and guest authors comment on the news, theological issues and stuff that matters. 

Sign up to the Beer Christianity newsletter on Substack. 

There's a connected Show With Music on Spotify called New Old Music. Check it out if you like eclectic music and weird chat. It's not terribly serious. 

Jonty's novel, Incredulous Moshoeshoe and the Lightning Bird, is not available in all good bookshops, but if you bought it and left a review that would probably make that more likely. 

We don't really want to preach at you, but some people like to know what we believe. It's this: Jesus Christ is the Son of God and came to teach us a better way to be while reconciling us to God and each other in a way we could never do without Him. He also changed water into wine. Nice. 

History does not begin when you start paying attention. And if you only start paying attention when white people get hurt, you are going to miss the root causes of the events you are seeing. 

As we recorded this episode, Gaza was being bombarded,  with the threat of more indiscriminate violence being made by Israeli authorities. UK politicians, including the so-called Opposition, were unwilling to denounce the killing of Palestinian civilians whose ability to leave Gaza was being controlled almost entirely by Israel. 

We weren't planning on recording this week, but the appalling uniformity of media and political coverage, demanding every Palestinian denounce terrorism while asking no supporter of Israel to denounce war crimes like the bombing and starving of civilians (or crimes under international law like settling occupied land) convinced us that we had to add our small voice in solidarity with the people of Gaza and the people of Palestine. 

It's not a massively planned episode, and at times we (Jonty mostly) get a bit cross. But if you cannot get cross when children are being bombed and the international community cheers (and Christians are posting 'I stand with the people doing the bombing' statuses, complete with praying hands emojis), when can you? 

A few things to say up front, in case you're unfamiliar with our style or our stance, and just as a matter of clarity:

1. We can never celebrate the killing of civilians, children and non-combatants, whether you do so as the fourth largest military in the world or as a smaller, independent militia. 
2. We reject Anti-Semitism as the evil it is. Jewish people are not to be blamed for the actions of a nation state, nor should they be made to feel unsafe for expressing their religious and/or ethnic identity. 
3. We remember the significant number of Palestinian Christians who are so often forgotten by the Church in the West. But we reject the idea that Christians should only care about 'our own'. Muslims, Christians, Jewish people and people of no faith are all equally deserving of our compassion.
4. We do not believe it is our place to police the ways in which oppressed people resist their oppression. We will not dictate the organisations through whom they must resist in order to earn our respect or compassion. 
5. We believe that Israel must end the Occupation of Palestine and that all people in the Israel-Palestine should have equal rights and equal access to resources, freedoms and protections. This is not the case currently and it was not the case for decades before the killing started over the last week. 
6. We are appalled that our Government and media in Britain, like many around the world, seem to support ethnic cleansing, the killing of civilians and potential genocide, when the people suffering are Palestinian. 
7. Malky isn't on this one because he was working and we recorded on short notice. 

This episode opens with a clip from this video by @rathbonemakesmusic on TikTok. It's worth watching the whole thing - it starts off talkign about the American War of Independence. 

It is worth noting that before recording we reached out to several Palestinian Christian groups, several charities and a major campaign that supports the cause of Palestinian solidarity, but, understndably, they were petty busy with other things. We do not want to take attention or space from Palestinians at this time, but we also did not want to make demands on individuals who are under immense stress already. Please see this episode as our attempt to engage our specific mostly Christian, mostly western, audience with another way for framing what is happenign in Gaza right now. 

Justice and peace now. Free Palestine.  

 

 

About Beer Christianity

Beer Christianity is an anti-capitalist, pro-BLM, pro-LGBTQ+, post-post-post-evangelical (and apparently republican) podcast where we drink a bit and talk a lot. Our aim is to be real, to be helpful and entertaining.

Follow Beer Christianity on Twitter: @beerxianity and find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube and Stitcher. 

If you leave us a voicenote on Instagram, we might air your question on an episode.

Beer Christianity also has a newsletter in which Jonty and guest authors comment on the news, theological issues and stuff that matters. 

Sign up to the Beer Christianity newsletter on Substack. 

There's a connected Show With Music on Spotify called New Old Music. Check it out if you like eclectic music and weird chat. It's not terribly serious. 

Jonty's novel, Incredulous Moshoeshoe and the Lightning Bird, is not available in all good bookshops, but if you bought it and left a review that would probably make that more likely. 

We don't really want to preach at you, but some people like to know what we believe. It's this: Jesus Christ is the Son of God and came to teach us a better way to be while reconciling us to God and each other in a way we could never do without Him. He also changed water into wine. Nice.