Evolving from Management to Leadership with Jeremy Duggan

In this curated episode of the Revenue Builders Podcast, John McMahon and John Kaplan delve into the essential characteristics of successful hiring companies, joined by J.R. Butler, founder of the Shift Group. Together, they explore the key elements that make a company excel in recruiting, developing, and retaining top talent, particularly athletes and veterans transitioning into sales roles.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

[00:00:49] Characteristics of A-Players: A-Players are hungry to learn, self-starters with a no-victim mentality, and persistent learners from their mistakes.
[00:01:23] Key Considerations for Hiring Companies: Sell the opportunity and potential outcomes. Foster a culture of excellence, growth, and development. Establish clearly defined goals to drive performance.
[00:02:30] Culture Beyond Surface: True culture goes beyond superficial elements like themed Zoom days. It's about what people do when nobody's looking, emphasizing structure, practice, and rewarding the right behaviors.
[00:05:08] Intimate Leadership: Leaders must understand the nuances of individuals, whether athletes or military veterans, to guide their growth effectively.
[00:06:44] Work Preferences of Athletes and Veterans: Consider the unique situations of career transitioners, and understand their willingness to relocate or work remotely.
[00:08:35] The Art of Selling the Opportunity: Companies should be adept at not only selling the job but also articulating why the candidate should choose them over other opportunities.

HIGHLIGHT QUOTES

[00:01:08] "As a hiring company, you need to sell the opportunity and the potential outcome. But you also have to have a culture of excellence, growth, and development."
[00:02:09] "Culture is what people do when nobody's looking. To create a culture where people do the right things, you've got to have that type of structure where they can practice and are rewarded for practice."
[00:07:34] "Why would somebody want to work for this company? Why would somebody want to work for you? It's a really good exercise. So important."

Listen to the full episode with JR Butler through this link:
https://revenue-builders.simplecast.com/episodes/assembling-a-top-sales-team-with-jr-butler/

Check out John McMahon’s book here:
Amazon Link: https://a.co/d/1K7DDC4

Check out Force Management’s Ascender platform here: 
https://my.ascender.co/Ascender/

In this episode we are joined for a second time by Jeremy Duggan, President and Board Member of Multiverse. Jeremy is a highly talented sales leader known for his expertise in B2B sales, ability to drive results and develop successful sales teams, and track record of changing lives and inspiring his team members to achieve greatness. He is passionate about leadership and believes in prioritizing the growth and development of his people.

In this episode, Jeremy Duggan joins hosts John McMahon and John Kaplan to discuss the differences between leadership and management in the context of sales. Jeremy simplifies the concept by stating that managers focus on the work, while leaders prioritize the growth and development of their people. He emphasizes that true leadership comes from vision and purpose, noting that making an impact on people and attending their needs ultimately leads to better business outcomes. The hosts and Jeremy delve into the role of difficult conversations in leadership, the significance of having a clear vision, and the importance of data-driven development plans. They also highlight the need for belief and passion in achieving goals and the joy of changing lives as a leader.

HERE ARE SOME KEY SECTIONS TO CHECK OUT

[00:03:17] Discussion on the difference between leadership and management
[00:08:15] Example of a difficult conversation with an employee
[00:10:11] The importance of being coachable and open to learning
[00:12:08] The importance of having the best interest of your team members at heart
[00:15:54] The need for leaders to consistently analyze development data
[00:17:23] The combination of management and leadership in effective leadership
[00:19:18] The importance of purpose in leadership and creating a vision for the team
[00:22:29] Leadership is about inspiring people and having a clear vision
[00:31:39] Setting the stage with purpose and passion
[00:36:55] Motivation and shaping thinking
[00:42:16] Leadership is about influencing people and having a positive impact
[00:58:09] Legacy is a proof of great leadership.
[01:04:17] Importance of developing a leadership tree and the success of the organization after leaving.
[01:05:15] The significance of being able to discuss the thriving of the organization and the leadership tree.

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES

Learn more about aligning customer-facing teams to improve execution: https://forc.mx/48o1jyP

Learn more about Jeremy Duggan and about their company.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-duggan-819473/
https://www.linkedin.com/school/joinmultiverse/

HIGHLIGHT QUOTES

[00:53:32] "The need for loyalty as a leader... If you've got somebody and they've got those two things, and you do know it, after a few weeks, right? If they have, then if you're going to call yourself a leader that wants to change people's lives, you owe it to that person to stick with them."
[00:57:22] "Loyalty provides so many things culturally... It provides safety in an unsafe job. It drives courage for people to take risks, to think they've got somebody backing them up... And people want to repay it as well... People would, the people I would ask about the leaders that they've had that I know, almost all of them will say they were there when I needed them."
[01:00:24] "Legacy means... That people want to follow you to the next opportunity because they believe in you, they understand the rules of the game, then they understand what you're going to lay out, and they understand that underneath you, they can become a much better person, they can develop as a person... That's what you've really developed is pride."

In this curated episode of the Revenue Builders Podcast, John McMahon and John Kaplan, sponsored by Force Management, delve into the intricacies of sales hiring, dissecting the reasons behind sales rep failures, and exploring the critical aspects of assessing the hiring process in a leadership role. Joined by Chris Riley, CEO of Winning Edge Advisors and former president of Worldwide Field Operations at DataRobot, the trio shares insights into the challenges of identifying the wrong hire, the importance of coaching, and the nuances of adapting to evolving business landscapes.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

[00:00:52] Identifying Sales Rep Failures: Chris Riley discusses the multifaceted reasons behind sales rep failures and emphasizes the role of managers in daily coaching and feedback.
[00:01:56] Critical Traits: The hosts and Chris highlight the significance of work ethic, coachability, and the ability to absorb and learn as key traits in successful sales hires.
[00:03:33] Character Traits: The discussion touches on the challenge of changing inherent character traits, emphasizing the importance of recognizing a person's fundamental nature.
[00:05:10] Skills Transferability: Chris shares insights into evaluating if a salesperson's skills are transferable to different sales environments and the potential pitfalls of misplacing talent.
[00:06:34] Strategic Hires: The hosts stress the importance of strategic hires in business ops and go-to-market strategy, pivotal for proper business metrics and effective training.

HIGHLIGHT QUOTES

[00:03:47] "If they're hungry enough, as you said, they're persistent. You might be able to help them develop skills, but you're not gonna change their character."
[00:04:20] "Persistence, heart, and desire. You just have to give it everything you got."
[00:06:52] "One, if you hire really good people and then when you onboard them the right way so you can decrease the ramp time and then you train them and develop 'em to increase their productivity and you give 'em to good leaders, you're probably not gonna churn them either."

Listen to the full episode with Chris Riley through this link:
https://revenue-builders.simplecast.com/episodes/driving-accountability-and-building-trust-with-chris-riley

Check out John McMahon’s book here:
Amazon Link: https://a.co/d/1K7DDC4

Check out Force Management’s Ascender platform here: 
https://my.ascender.co/Ascender/

In this milestone 100th episode of the Revenue Builders Podcast, hosts John McMahon and John Kaplan reflect on their journey and share some of their most memorable takeaways from previous conversations. They discuss the importance of authentic leadership, the power of debriefing, and the value of leading with a vision. They also highlight the significance of balancing work and personal life, the impact of Navy SEAL principles on leadership, and the role of customer success in reducing churn. The hosts express their gratitude to the listeners and emphasize the importance of caring for the guests and their stories.

Tune in to this conversation with John McMahon and John Kaplan on the Revenue Builders podcast.

HERE ARE SOME KEY SECTIONS TO CHECK OUT

[00:00:00] Introduction to the 100th episode celebration
[00:01:08] Memorable episodes from previous guests
[00:11:41] Conclusion and final thoughts on the 100th episode celebration
[00:12:08] Sarah Dillegaard's story of staying calm in a crisis
[00:15:14] Chris Kin's rare journey from salesperson to CRO in a startup
[00:16:53] Cedric Pesce's insight on giving the team a vision to stay motivated
[00:19:28] Mark Roberge's strategies to reduce churn at HubSpot
[00:21:00] Leading authentically and the importance of caring for your team
[00:21:39] John Mosley's selfless leadership as a basketball coach
[00:23:06] Customer-centric approach with discovery and the significance of MEDDIC qualification criteria

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES

Learn more about aligning customer-facing teams to improve execution: https://forc.mx/48o1jyP 

HIGHLIGHT QUOTES

[00:04:40] "The podcast is about giving back and taking the experiences from our guests and letting them share those life lessons."
[00:10:23] "A good leader needs to give the team a vision that keeps their mind away from the monotony of everyday work.
[00:17:38] "If you wanna build a ship, don't drum up people to assign them tasks, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea."

In this curated episode of the Revenue Builders Podcast, John McMahon and John Kaplan on the Revenue Builders podcast as they dive into the intricate world of churn with special guest Allison Pickens. Former COO of Gainsight, Allison shares her insights into scaling a company and understanding the nuanced reasons behind customer departures. From measuring churn metrics to the importance of responding to external factors, this episode provides valuable lessons for businesses aiming to enhance customer success and retention.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

[00:00:54] Superficial Understanding of Churn Causes: Alison discusses how some companies may view churn too superficially, attributing it to external factors like a change in company leadership or losing to a competitor.
[00:01:44] Strategic Response to Churn: Emphasizing the importance of responding appropriately to churn events and considering them as opportunities rather than inevitable losses.
[00:02:48] Honest Evaluation: Encouraging companies to be honest about what aspects of their operations can be improved and aligning strategies with company goals.

HIGHLIGHT QUOTES

[00:00:54] "One way in which they might think about it too superficially is they might note things, root causes that are outside of their control."
[00:01:44] "When your customer gets acquired by another company, that is not an obvious churn or like an inevitable churn reason. It might be an opportunity to expand your deployment to the larger company."
[00:02:48] "What's important is just being honest with yourself about what you can improve and what you can based on the strategy of your company at the time."

Listen to the full episode with Allison Pickens through this link:
https://revenue-builders.simplecast.com/episodes/mastering-the-art-of-customer-success-with-allison-pickens

Check out John McMahon’s book here:
Amazon Link: https://a.co/d/1K7DDC4

Check out Force Management’s Ascender platform here: 
https://my.ascender.co/Ascender/

Dan Barrett is the Senior Vice President of Customer Success at MongoDB. With a background in sales, Dan has held various leadership roles in the technology industry. He started his career at IBM before moving on to Q Associates, Symantec, and ServiceNow. Dan joined MongoDB as a Regional Director for the UK and Ireland and has since been promoted to Vice President of Northern Europe and then to his current role as Senior Vice President of Customer Success.

In this episode, Dan discusses his transition from sales to customer success and the importance of aligning sales and customer success teams. Dan shares insights on reducing churn, proactive customer success strategies, and the changing expectations of customers in a consumption-driven world. He emphasizes the need for measuring and demonstrating the impact of customer success and the role of customer success in driving business outcomes. Dan also highlights the significance of cultivating advocates and engaging economic buyers throughout the customer journey.

Tune in to this conversation with John McMahon and John Kaplan on the Revenue Builders podcast.

HERE ARE SOME KEY SECTIONS TO CHECK OUT

[00:02:40] Dan's initial thoughts on transitioning from sales to customer success
[00:06:41] Organization structure: customer success, product-led sales, account management, and renewal
[00:09:19] Challenges of silos and lack of alignment between teams
[00:12:18] Building skills, trust, and impact in customer success
[00:15:14] Reviewing and addressing risks on a weekly basis
[00:17:48] Promoting internal talent and maintaining company culture
[00:19:59] Challenges in selecting and developing customer success leaders
[00:22:10] Understanding the complex root causes of churn
[00:26:00] Moving to a consumption-based model is the ultimate test of value
[00:29:47] Customer success is often the first to be cut due to lack of impact measurement
[00:32:00] A good customer success team should be able to pay for itself
[00:36:24] The importance of a positive customer experience and the potential impact on future projects
[00:39:00] Economic buyer engagement and the changing dynamics of the sales process
[00:47:09] The importance of aligning the customer journey with the software development lifecycle
[00:51:53] Being data-driven and analytical

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES

Learn more about aligning customer-facing teams to improve execution: 
https://forc.mx/48o1jyP

Learn more about Dan Barrett and about their company.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/newbusinesssales/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/mongodbinc/

HIGHLIGHT QUOTES

[00:54:26] "If I can't self-identify on how that makes me feel, I call it the indignity of the close. If I'm not understanding what that means, that the sale really begins with probably an objection or a no or somewhere, and I'm not comfortable with that, then I'm probably not gonna do so well in that sales career."
[00:55:41] "I wanna understand someone's character more so than anything. So I think those, As part of our structured interview framework, we're trying to focus more in the early stages of that process of identifying what are the aspects of someone's character and capability that we're looking for."
[01:01:41] "I think if the sales reps need to remember where they came from and help invest in that SDR 'cause it's gonna lead to success for them if they make those investments."

In this curated episode of the Revenue Builders Podcast, John McMahon and John Kaplan dive deep into the concept of negativity bias and its impact on sales performance. Joined by Jim “Pouli” Pouliopoulos, a seasoned sales management facilitator and author of "How to Be A Well-Being," the conversation explores the roots of negativity bias, its evolutionary significance, and practical strategies to counteract it. The hosts emphasize the importance of focusing on the sales process rather than fixating on closing deals, offering valuable insights for sales professionals looking to enhance their mindset and performance.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

[00:00:57] Understanding Negativity Bias: Jim explains negativity bias as a hardwired human tendency to interpret external events negatively, rooted in evolutionary survival instincts.

[00:02:25] Impact on Sales: The hosts discuss how negativity bias can adversely affect sales professionals, leading to self-doubt, fear of rejection, and a negative spiral in their approach.

[00:03:27] Counteracting Negativity Bias: Jim suggests countering negativity bias by training the brain to focus on positive aspects daily, cultivating gratitude for small things.

[00:06:28] Shifting Focus to Process: The conversation shifts to the idea of focusing on the sales process rather than fixating on closing deals, emphasizing the importance of controlling what can be controlled.

[00:08:13] Empathy in Sales: Jim advises sellers to approach conversations with empathy, asking, "How do I help this person right now?" instead of being overly concerned about closing deals.

[00:09:21] Managerial Support: The hosts discuss the role of managers in fostering a positive mindset, encouraging them to shift their focus from demanding closed deals to understanding and supporting the seller's efforts to help their clients.

HIGHLIGHT QUOTES

[00:01:20] "Negativity bias is hardwired into us; it gave us the tools to evolve, but we need to recognize and manage it in sales."

[00:03:45] "Training our brains to focus on daily positives can counteract the immediate negative interpretations of events."

[00:07:53] "Instead of fixating on closing deals, ask, 'How do I help this person?' – it leads to better questions, rapport building, and positive outcomes."

[00:09:21] "Managers play a crucial role; shifting focus from closing deals to understanding and supporting the seller's efforts leads to better results."

Listen to the full episode with Jim “Pouli” Pouliopoulos through this link:
https://revenue-builders.simplecast.com/episodes/how-to-be-a-well-being-in-sales

Check out John McMahon’s book here:
Amazon Link: https://a.co/d/1K7DDC4

Check out Force Management’s Ascender platform here: 
https://my.ascender.co/Ascender/

Joe Young currently holds the position of Vice President of Worldwide Commercial Sales at Zscaler, where he oversees both the inside and field Commercial sales organization consisting of 200 people, along with the sales development organization of 100 people. Before joining Zscaler, Joe accumulated over 9 years of experience at EMC & Dell EMC, contributing to various inside sales, field sales, and leadership roles across different segments of the company. A native of the Boston area, Joe is a Babson College graduate with a degree in Business Administration and Finance. Additionally, he served as a two-year captain of the Men's Varsity Golf Team.

In this episode, Joe Young shares insights into how Zscaler organizes its commercial sales team, including inside sales, SDRs, and field sales. He discusses the segmentation of the commercial market into SMB (500 employees and below) and commercial (500-2,500 employees) accounts. Joe also highlights the importance of having field presence for commercial accounts and the role of SDRs in building pipeline and demand generation. He emphasizes the need for consistent enablement, common language, and sales processes across geographies. Additionally, Joe provides valuable advice on recruiting and developing talent, the key qualities of successful SDRs and inside salespeople, and the challenges of territory balancing.

Tune in to this conversation with John McMahon and John Kaplan on the Revenue Builders podcast.

HERE ARE SOME KEY SECTIONS TO CHECK OUT
[00:01:13] Joe Young's background and experience at EMC Dell
[00:07:40] Adjusting the line between SMB and commercial based on productivity
[00:11:02] SDR organization's role in building pipeline and future talent pipeline
[00:14:29] Distribution of commercial reps in local offices and managed by local leaders
[00:17:26] Importance of enablement business partner and consistent enablement
[00:20:15] Standardizing processes and language across stages to facilitate promotion and transition
[00:22:15] Importance of establishing the three why's: why buy anything, why buy now, and why buy from me
[00:26:20] Difficulty in finding multiple champions in SMB accounts
[00:29:11] Deals stall due to lack of pain qualification or champion
[00:33:04] Conversion rate decreased from 28% to 18% in the past year
[00:36:45] Difficulty in holding onto inside sales reps and providing career paths
[00:44:24] The average tenure for SDRs and inside sellers is 18 months
[00:57:19] Joe Young highlights the importance of overcoming adversity and being a grinder in a sales role

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES

Learn more about Joe Young and about their company.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-young-6959742b/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/zscaler/

HIGHLIGHT QUOTES

[00:54:26] "If I can't self-identify on how that makes me feel, I call it the indignity of the close. If I'm not understanding what that means, that the sale really begins with probably an objection or a no or somewhere, and I'm not comfortable with that, then I'm probably not gonna do so well in that sales career."
[00:55:41] "I wanna understand someone's character more so than anything. So I think those, As part of our structured interview framework, we're trying to focus more in the early stages of that process of identifying what are the aspects of someone's character and capability that we're looking for."
[01:01:41] "I think if the sales reps need to remember where they came from and help invest in that SDR 'cause it's gonna lead to success for them if they make those investments."

SHOW SUMMARY

In this curated episode of the Revenue Builders Podcast, John McMahon and John Kaplan in a deep dive with industry expert Anne Gary as they explore the essential steps in preparing for the Economic Buyer meeting. Ann shares valuable insights on how salespeople can differentiate themselves, become true business partners, and align their solutions with both corporate and individual objectives.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

[00:00:49] Research is Key: 8 out of 10 executives feel sales meetings are wasted time. Research company objectives, risks, and competition beforehand.
[00:01:46] Be a Partner: Differentiate by helping run their business. Provide insights into unconsidered business issues.
[00:02:56] Align for Success: Link solutions to corporate and individual performance, focusing on revenue growth, cost reduction, and risk mitigation.
[00:04:55] Articulate the Pain: Quantify the current situation, showcasing the full ramifications of the customer's process and connecting it to positive business outcomes.
[00:08:14] Differentiate Effectively: Identify required capabilities, differentiating based on unique strengths addressing specific pain points for winning the Proof of Value (POV).
[00:09:00] ROI Confidence: Develop a preliminary Return on Investment (ROI) confidently before entering Proof of Concept (POC) discussions.

HIGHLIGHT QUOTES

[00:01:25] "Be a business partner, not a salesperson. Help them run their business, inform them about business issues they haven't considered."
[00:03:57] "The terms that resonate with your champion may not be the same terms that resonate with the economic buyer. Speak on their business terms."
[00:07:54] "Understand how these people are measured. Highlight the business outcome that aligns most with how they're evaluated."

Listen to the full episode with Anne Gary through this link:
https://revenue-builders.simplecast.com/episodes/getting-to-the-economic-buyer-with-anne-gary

Check out John McMahon’s book here:
Amazon Link: https://a.co/d/1K7DDC4

Check out Force Management’s Ascender platform here: 
https://my.ascender.co/Ascender/

John Donnelly III is a seasoned global operational executive with over 25 years of experience in growing enterprise B2B SaaS companies. He has successfully managed various stages of growth for tech companies, ranging from series A to over $900M in revenue, leading large global teams in sales, support, services, and marketing. With a track record of delivering multiple millions in returns to private equity and venture investors, John has played key roles in two IPOs and several M&A exits. 

In this episode, John McMahon and John Kaplan talk with John Donnelly about his sales career journey, the challenges of business acquisitions, effective sales forecasting, and the importance of storytelling in sales campaigns. Donnelly also stresses the need for sales reps to build emotional connections to their customers and to deeply understand their needs. This episode illuminates valuable insights for sales executives navigating forecast challenges and business acquisitions.

Tune in to this conversation with John McMahon and John Kaplan on the Revenue Builders podcast.

HERE ARE SOME KEY SECTIONS TO CHECK OUT
[01:27] John Donnelly's Career Journey
[03:19] John Donnelly's Experience with Acquisitions
[05:35] The Challenges of Cultural Fit in Acquisitions
[11:49] The Importance of Listening and Understanding in New Leadership Roles
[24:52] The Impact of Slip Deals on Forecasting
[28:05] The Role of CRM Systems in Forecasting
[32:00] Understanding Why Deals Slip
[32:13] Top Reasons for Deal Slippage
[32:28] The Importance of Attaching to the Biggest Business Issue
[33:04] The Role of a Champion in the Sales Cycle
[34:09] Differentiating Yourself from the Competition
[34:40] The Art of Asking the Right Questions
[35:03] Understanding the Timeline of a Deal
[38:05] The Importance of Testing Champions
[46:15] The Power of Storytelling in Sales
[48:59] The Role of Emotional Intelligence in Sales

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES

Learn more about John Donnelly and about their company.
john@masteringtechnicalsales.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/johncare/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/up-2-speed/

HIGHLIGHT QUOTES

[00:41:55] "And I, like I said earlier, at the very beginning, I think, the reps that get, more people involved and more people involved in a deal, you get more perspective on something. And I think if a rep is holding a deal very close to the chest and not really willing to get other people involved in the business, I always worry about that as well."
[00:46:27] "I love this because that's really important. Sorry, Johnny when, especially when they can tell a story that aligns to the same issues that customer had. so they're, because I found that a lot of customers, sometimes they're. Reluctant to talk about all their issues 'cause they think they're the only ones, those issues they have are very unique."
[00:51:46] "And I think that's something that's so important. And whenever I talk to customers now, it's always, okay, tell me what we've done to make, why are we, why are you different now using DTIQ? What's different about it? I wanna know what that is and why, and because ultimately, of course, not every customer can speak publicly. But I'm always looking for the next referral, the next customer that can speak on our behalf to say, Hey, we brought DTIQ in before, before we had DTIQ, we had these problems, we brought it in, and now we don't and we saved money."