EXOS: The Human Performance Model with Stefan Underwood

Impact is about results. Impact is delivered by having clear and measurable goals that are regularly tracked with milestones. Understanding how to achieve impact or what the desired results should be is sometimes not easy. This is where we want to tie back and leverage some of our previous episodes on connections, communication, and visibility to help others in driving impact. Short and long success personally and professionally is all about driving the best and highest impact.

 

We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve.

 

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Episode Transcript:

00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;17
 
You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maiden podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS Chief Information Security Officer within Oracle.

00;00;28;29 - 00;00;51;20
 
In this episode, we discuss impact. The impact is about results. Impact is delivered by having clear and measurable goals that are regularly tracked with milestones. Understanding how to achieve impact or what the desired results should be is sometimes not easy. This is where we want to tie back and leverage some of our previous episodes on connections, communication and visibility to help others in driving impact short and long term success.

00;00;51;24 - 00;01;08;02
 
Personally and professionally is all about driving the best and highest impact We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode. And please remember to check in on your buddies and family.

00;01;08;07 - 00;01;24;11
 
And don't forget to send us feedback, suggestions and topics on what you would like us to cover in future episodes. It helps spread the word to the broader community David's contact details are in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn Morning, David.

00;01;24;19 - 00;01;33;16
 
Good morning. I'm excited. Seems like it's been a couple of weeks here, almost taking too long. And this for get to there because we want to have impact, right? You know with our community.

00;01;34;01 - 00;01;36;29
 
Impact sounds like we're talking about impact.

00;01;37;10 - 00;02;03;27
 
Well, in the end, you know, Chris, it's kind of everything we're talking about is why are we doing this, right? Why do we, you know, talking about, you know, connecting in relationships and communicating? You know, it's because so we can have more impact impact our lives, impact on our jobs, impacting our careers. And so I kind of start thinking about how can we help people to, you know, have some best practices understanding how to have the largest amount of impact.

00;02;04;09 - 00;02;12;01
 
That's right. To discover what your purpose is probably has a lot to influence whether or not you feel like you're being impactful.

00;02;12;17 - 00;02;31;26
 
Well, you know, I think as many companies are certainly high tech companies now is you know, I don't get into the performance reviews and things like that. Maybe that's a whole nother podcast in itself. But it's really people want to say, you know, measure how much impact did you have? You know, what were your results you know, did you have big results?

00;02;31;26 - 00;02;45;18
 
Do you have major results? Do you have minor results? And I think then we should really talk about how do you measure these things? How do you drive for impact? Right? How do you know when you may not be measuring or looking at the right things?

00;02;46;00 - 00;03;10;16
 
Yeah, that's right. You touched on a couple of things inside that already as we're just kicking this off. So I think when when you know what you're supposed to be doing, the questions that come in are somewhat of what you introduced as well. How do I do that when you find what's important? And then you say, well, how do I know it's going to actually yield the results that everybody's considering or expecting?

00;03;11;05 - 00;03;34;02
 
You know? And so you have the OKRs, the KPIs, you know, even in response to a question, could give an indicator as to whether or not you're aligned What I guess the you or the group had discussed is what is needing to be done. But I think there's also some room here to talk about some of those other things that maybe aren't measurable or at least maybe hard to explain.

00;03;34;02 - 00;03;52;04
 
Maybe there are measurable if you if you're skilled at being able to interpret what's happening so maybe maybe we'll kind of focus on some two key areas, you know, the obvious things and then the ones that probably aren't as commonly referred to or understood, but is a part of the equation.

00;03;53;03 - 00;04;12;07
 
Well, I think that's a great point in that because sometimes it is when we're part of organizations and goals priorities and things are top down, right? And saying, these are things you hit us like, okay, the impact I'm having is based on those goals with their top down, that's very easy. But also sometimes we work in organizations where it's not so crystal clear.

00;04;12;08 - 00;04;28;28
 
Right. Or your goals aren't so well defined. Boy, I wish we we're in the military again, right? Everything here's the mission here. The tack is this which had to clean this all written down. It's a checklist. You either did it or you didn't did not do it. It's a lot simpler sometimes. Sometimes that you also say it's hard to.

00;04;29;08 - 00;04;44;02
 
But I think one of the things is that, well, how do you measure or identify the impact you need to have if it's not written down? It's not well stated. Out, you know, in obvious ways. Right. And I think that's maybe part of our discussion today.

00;04;44;24 - 00;05;04;16
 
Yep. So start with the basics. So you in your personal life, in your professional life, you have them, they may be named differently or phrased differently or even set up differently, but you have a mission statement, you have a vision, you have goals, you know, and then from there you could develop all the actionable items that will be your strategy.

00;05;04;16 - 00;05;31;16
 
And then the team definition where you can break down tasks by role and things like that, and you can start to put the resources in motion to to begin the path towards those objectives. So maybe to bring value and understand the type of impact is do I think we'll start with clarity? First, we need to understand it.

00;05;31;26 - 00;05;54;01
 
Well, I think that's where we talked before. Communication and listening, asking questions comes into play right and I think kind of tying those together is, you know, one of the things I think is when you don't know what the impact should be or needs to be. Right. It's often it is how you ask questions of, you know, a person or organization or a manager is what are they looking for?

00;05;54;06 - 00;06;21;07
 
What do they need? You know, what results do they want? What is bothering them? I was love to say that, you know, the best employees often go to their manager and say, let's keep you awake at night. What is worrying you? Right. What are the biggest problems, you know, in your mind? Because, you know, if you solve those problems, the things that are keeping your manager and your organization away awake at night, those are the things that will have the greatest impact.

00;06;21;27 - 00;06;58;27
 
You said that and thought of I think it was General Mattis I'm the one that keeps the others awake at night or something to that effect is is this quote. So, you know, and I think we look at it as clearly we can talk about it in all kinds of ways. But when you look at it where you have external goals and internal goals, so if you're a customer facing the customer, facing any any entity outside of what you or your organization is, and then you have internal because while we're doing this, everything that we've spoken about in previous episodes and what all of us have rooted into our being is I want to get something

00;06;58;27 - 00;07;28;01
 
out of it also. So value is twofold, right? I want to be able to provide value to the external entities. Our customer focus our organizational goals and things like that. But if I don't feel fulfilled, then it's not reciprocating value. And I want to make sure that we're also including the impact. It's got to be impactful not only for the purpose of why we're driving towards common goals with others, but we want to also have an impact for ourselves so we feel fulfilled and we can continue the motivation and the desire in that purpose.

00;07;28;23 - 00;08;04;27
 
So, you know, when we talk about impact that this leads to and it just so happens, it's men's Health Awareness Month, right? And so it can be anybody's it doesn't matter, you know, to have your mental mindset preserved you know, impactful, being impactful also has to include that that internal component. And so when we think about where we're going and it's got to be measurable, what are some of the key elements that can serve both purposes?

00;08;06;02 - 00;08;23;29
 
You know, I think I'll be bad. I say, you know, let's bring a book into the conversation like we do for every podcast. Right. And so, you know, Chris and I say, please be useful right? And what am I talking about here? It's like, well, I'm going back. You know, I'm going to you know, are Arnold Schwarzenegger's latest book, you know, B would be useful, right?

00;08;24;07 - 00;08;42;05
 
And I've actually been reading it recently and I think one of the things is that of kind of tying this together and I thought was just great for, you know, our podcast this morning is that you it's not just about building a vision. It's not just, you know, understanding things. It's that really of how you're investing in yourself.

00;08;42;05 - 00;09;02;04
 
Right. To realize a vision, to realize a goal. And having the impact. And it's not just something that you spend 5 minutes on. Right. Arnold Schwarzenegger talked about his book. He said, hey, when he was trying to be a weightlifter or, you know, Olympian. Right. He spent 5 hours a day. Right. You know, working out. Then he should only do two and a half in the morning and two and a half in the afternoon.

00;09;02;05 - 00;09;21;24
 
Right. And he said this is the same as actually if you have a vision for your life or you have a vision for what you want to achieve. And he said you may have to spend 5 hours a day to do it, but that's because that's an example of doing something above and beyond to have the ultimate goal, the ultimate dream.

00;09;22;12 - 00;09;29;08
 
And I think that's a great book to really kind of emphasize and kind of use as a catalyst for this conversation.

00;09;30;29 - 00;09;59;05
 
That's a good example because I think what I heard from that was a description of lessons learned. And so in the process of pursuing objectives or goals, right. So in this case, by building, right? For that example or scalability, you know, increasing the organizational scalability potential or effectively delivering X within a certain amount of time frame you could, you could, you could say that we did that.

00;09;59;16 - 00;10;38;03
 
But what the other components are that consist of what happens while you're doing that can also be perceived as impactful. You know, hey, we did this. But when while we were doing that, we also learned this. And so in this case, you know, there's a a time frame in which things were allocated to perform a particular task. And then as time went on, it was learned that, you know, addressing how that timeline was split up to optimize the ability to be more effective, more efficient, more scalable, more sustainable, you know, there's an outcome there that you wouldn't really understand until you had actually gone through it.

00;10;40;03 - 00;11;03;05
 
What kind of building upon that example is he said what? He went to make a movie like a Terminator. He said, yeah, he spent 5 hours a day. Right. You know, there's I it being blindfolded and shooting a gun. So he never blinked again. Right. Or he's trying to become you know, the governor of California said he spent 5 hours a day, you know, studying all the issues and things like that because he said the impact he had was enormous or he wanted to have is enormous.

00;11;03;06 - 00;11;06;14
 
So he had, you know, invest enormously to achieve that.

00;11;07;00 - 00;11;40;07
 
Yeah. And most of us can relate to that. The more you're ever you're putting into something, you're in control of that. And so I can't help but think about a word that can help describe this, because there's an element here that we're all understanding. It's necessary is leadership where we have informal and formal leaders. But these are the ones that are in a hierarchal or oppositional position of influence that guide or take us from one place to the other and then be able to manage it effectively the results.

00;11;40;07 - 00;12;00;27
 
And so we can stay on track. But I think a lot of those things, as you learn, is to be impactful is the perception that you know, hey, David, the way that you're doing that is impactful. Keep going. Or, Hey, David, in order to achieve a greater impact for what we're trying to do, you know, would you would you be able to do this, that or the other thing?

00;12;01;08 - 00;12;25;11
 
In those two examples of the many, we can start to talk about the management or leadership style to where some of us as we learn and we grow, we need less oversight. Right. And that's now I'm going to introduce to micromanage micro and macro managers. Right. So some of us perform at a high level when we have a lot of autonomy that that's gained through experience.

00;12;25;11 - 00;12;48;05
 
And that, again, you've earned that by being impactful. What are your thoughts on how the dynamics between it within an organization? Let's say when you have multiple people in an organization trying to do the same thing differently? What do you think some of the elements are that we have to continuously watch to make sure that we're reciprocating the impact?

00;12;49;18 - 00;13;08;28
 
So I think one of the things that we talked about in like I think in our previous podcast about communication is one element is being clear on what the results will be. Right. So you can think about stuff like, hey, this is the impact people want you to have. It is the result they want you to achieve. But you're going to be clear, is it is the results they're going to achieve?

00;13;08;28 - 00;13;33;04
 
Right, because you could be off on that. You you know, you could you could perceive incorrectly. You could think incorrectly. And really when you what sometimes writing things down and asking maybe this is what we want to achieve. Is that correct? And then people validating it. That is very, very important because otherwise the impact you think you're going to have may not be the the actual results that are achieved.

00;13;34;01 - 00;13;39;21
 
What happens when there's a breakdown during that process of pursuing clarity?

00;13;40;05 - 00;13;59;00
 
Well, I think a bigger question is then there could be breakdowns at the beginning and are be breakdowns along the way. Right. And so I think it's it's kind of upfront is saying just like, okay, are and B are just saying like, hey, this is what we're going to achieve and these are the results. And sometimes I think it's very important to call out who is the customer of that result.

00;13;59;00 - 00;14;18;23
 
Right. And say an internal customer. External customer, maybe a person, maybe a group. Who is the customer? Right. And what are they going to achieve? And people agree with that. That's a good point. And then also, I think is always having milestones along the way saying how are the results are achieving the results? We expected right. You know, are we continuing measuring that?

00;14;18;23 - 00;14;20;27
 
If we don't, you can get off track very quickly.

00;14;21;21 - 00;14;45;28
 
Yeah. And I can't help think of the word mastery at that point. Like you know, a word that would help define how skilled you are to be able to recognize what does it take? So again, previous episodes have included elements of what we can put in our toolbox. So we have these levers to pull when we need to and how to become effective communicator.

00;14;45;28 - 00;15;12;21
 
How do you make sure that your understanding how to make, how to make yourself presence or be known the visibility component right where others see you and what you're doing? Because of course, that's you know, that's one of those milestone Check-In points where people can see what's occurring and then know how the different leadership or how the different roles will contribute.

00;15;13;18 - 00;15;32;05
 
The value of those roles they gives at a time or a period of time will go by and something will change. And we know this all the time. Organizational change, right? So something happened last week. We made we had a discussion. We made some some goals and some tasks. We distributed the tasks and we said, let's check in next week.

00;15;32;05 - 00;15;54;05
 
Well, within that timeframe, things changed. Something happened. So in the journey we've discovered and we made some accomplishments that changed the dynamics or the trajectory or the plan. So we have to check in every now and again to make sure that whatever's occurred since the last time we talked, what you just said is are we aligned or are we still in line for the things that we had discussed before?

00;15;54;13 - 00;16;12;24
 
Or what has changed? And this comes to back to I think is the mastery or the skill of the one, you know, really good program managers or project manager. We're going to stay on exactly what we're talking about. And effective leaders will also understand you're going to be able to understand now what everybody else is saying at the right level, the detail.

00;16;12;24 - 00;16;32;23
 
Because what you and I had talked about before, I can't remember when you as as a senior vice president or exposed to a lot of high level discussions, that is a culmination of everybody else's tasks passed up into context. So there's some relatable messaging that gives you the sense of what's going on.

00;16;34;11 - 00;17;13;17
 
I think one of the points, let's call it the real world example, right? We work on a result, right? It's very easy to find. The trap is like, I'm going to enhance something, I'm going to improve something, I'm going to extend something. Right. In an element of seeing that. Well, what does that really mean? Right. Those are ways where so many people fall into the trap of like you have ambiguous or ambiguous know impact goals or have ambiguous results and really want you to say, is that okay, we are going to improve the performance of the system and we can get 10% more power savings.

00;17;13;17 - 00;17;37;00
 
You know, things like that is like, oh, okay, you can measure it any time you try to have a goal or deliver impact that you can't actually measure in a physically or logically, it's always going to be a trap of mis, you know, missed results. Rate is I think it's easy to create things that are saying that you're going to improve something, but like, oh, how do you measure that?

00;17;38;01 - 00;17;54;11
 
Chris So let's say, okay, we're going to make this a podcast. We're going make this podcast, you know better. Okay, how do we measure that right now? We said we're going to have 10% more listeners next month. Like, Oh, okay, we can measure that. Did we achieve that or not?

00;17;55;11 - 00;18;39;04
 
Yeah. I think what you in between that you had said something about kind of equated to the e autonomy. Somebody is going to discover something and then realize real time maybe that something else is needing to be done. And I think that comes back down to the skill sets that have developed over time where communicating in this case is going to be necessary because if it hasn't been discussed in the plan, now we're getting down to the next level of a plan or goals that says, hey, if if we're doing this, we're going to expect this is our contingent planning piece planning right?

00;18;39;05 - 00;19;10;07
 
We're going to say, if we achieve this and this occurs, then this, then we're going to define what that is. That way we know that if it doesn't happen the way we expected, we're going to have to stop, reassess, and then recalibrate what we're going to do and then get agreement to continue on. What do you think would be the inhibitors or the ability, the things that would prevent us from having that occur without being too disruptive?

00;19;11;10 - 00;19;29;26
 
You know, actually, I think this is raising a really good point here. I think one thing is, is that jumps to mind immediately is people don't want to plan up front. It's easy to kind of jump in and get it running down, you know, running down the road and realizing like, okay, what's the time I really wanted to achieve here?

00;19;29;26 - 00;19;50;06
 
Right. Well, no, you need a planet just like a marathon or half marathon or five days. Like, you know, you're going to go in in a race. It's like, okay, what's your goal? You define that upfront, don't you? Or, you know, Chris, I know you run lots of marathons, right? So would you actually kick off or running 26.2 miles and you say, oh, I don't know what I'm going to how fast I'm going to go I'm, you know, whatever it is I'm going to finish.

00;19;50;06 - 00;19;57;20
 
So so then why do people start trying to have impact without measuring planning what the results are going to be from the very start?

00;19;57;27 - 00;20;36;03
 
They're defining what it is now. You're right. And I think we're stumbling across it now that, you know, to be impactful is relative. It's a perception based opinion, and it has to be something that everybody understands whose opinion it is right. To be impactful. Is it my managers for me, if I am trying to achieve goals successfully and make sure that I'm doing my job properly, then my whoever's in charge of me, whether directly or indirectly, whoever has influence on me, right?

00;20;36;03 - 00;20;59;09
 
Because I'll be I may be working with other other teams and people where that collective feedback is going to come back to some gatekeeper, whoever that may be, that will have an influence on my my career, my future, or me being able to continue on this particular project or task or effort. You know, it's just one of those things that it has to be agreed upon, you know, who's whose opinion matters.

00;20;59;09 - 00;21;24;19
 
So to bring impact, we have to understand who the stakeholders are, who the decision makers are, who the ones that matter most, and then who are the other key components are personnel that matter, but play a particular role in how it can be a collective input that provides that perspective into that key decision maker, that key leader. That's a good point.

00;21;24;20 - 00;21;27;12
 
Is defining the team, you know, who who's involved?

00;21;28;14 - 00;21;47;07
 
Well, I think that's a I don't want to get into there at this point, but it's almost like the race, right? Is kind of like who's who's a participant, right? Who's the approver? Right. Who's a reviewer? Right. Who's an informant? Right. And just like that, planning those should be defined upfront is part of it because you never want to say okay, here's the results and here's the plan.

00;21;47;13 - 00;21;53;18
 
Well, I don't know who's the approval of this. Right. Wow. What a horrible spot to end up in.

00;21;54;23 - 00;22;31;21
 
Yeah. You don't you don't want to learn after the fact. And then you get surprised because then we're talking about morale. You know, the the impact that has occurred has an effect on not only the organization. And we keep saying organization. I'm going to box this in. This is this is everyday life. This is everything that occurs in what we do, even from waking up and doing whatever you doing to get ready to go, whatever it is that you do here in the day or the night or whatever, it's just an understanding of I'm supposed to be doing this and here's why and here's where I know I don't need to do it anymore, right?

00;22;31;22 - 00;23;21;14
 
So we've achieved something the the people, the, the ripple effect, the people that are impacted by different context, the people that are affected. When we drive towards being impactful, we have to have that to be a consideration. Because if we're too focused or narrowly focused on that one thing and we don't do what you just talked about, plan accordingly, to where we can know the risk factors, we aren't capable now of truly capturing what that ultimate outcome, which we can consider to be the impact, what that ultimate outcome can cause, because then we may end up doing what's common when we don't plan effectively.

00;23;21;14 - 00;23;22;16
 
As we cause more issues.

00;23;23;14 - 00;23;42;16
 
Absolutely. You know, another thing, Chris, I was thinking about here is that I think you touched on a bit earlier is that as you get down into the implementation or the execution of a plan, the plans can change, right? Because there can be variables that aren't known, right? You could run into blockers, you to run in obstacles. You could run into you know, difficulties.

00;23;42;16 - 00;24;07;28
 
And so the plan can change. And that's not that's not bad, right? It's was that you're always understanding and watching for it. And that's where the milestones come in saying, okay, the assumptions that we had, the variables that we knew in various we didn't know. Right. Is there some change? So then let's update our plan. Let's update the results let's check in with all the reviewers and the participants with check in with the approver is like, is this the right new plan?

00;24;07;29 - 00;24;11;29
 
Is this the right new results? Right. And that's very, very important. To always keep in mind.

00;24;12;28 - 00;24;35;07
 
Yeah. So maybe, maybe let's toy with this idea. Let's, let's apply it to something specific because I I don't know about you, but I feel like we're so ambiguous at this moment that I know, no, we're being impactful in this conversation. But I do think that we've set a good framework by introducing a bunch of different things. So, one, you have to know what you're wanting to do.

00;24;35;25 - 00;25;05;24
 
So let's apply it to transition. Let's let's spread it across any type of transition. You're moving from one place to another. In this case, we'll keep it with our veteran affiliated community and we'll say we have service members getting ready to make a choice when there's too much information out there and there is a lot of information, it's probably too much, but some of it may be considered to be valuable based off of how you're seeing it, right?

00;25;05;24 - 00;25;23;02
 
Whatever lens you're wearing and how you feel and all those types of things. And your scenario could be unique in a sense of where it's applicable. Got it. However, the bigger picture is, generally speaking, there's a ton of information out there, and it's hard to choose which one. It's like a thought, right? If you don't know where to start, stand in front of your garage.

00;25;23;02 - 00;25;42;26
 
You see, you want to clean your garage and there's a bunch of stuff that you have to do. Where do you start? Have to know what you're trying to achieve. These are your objectives. Your goals doesn't have doesn't matter if it's short term, near-term, long term, it has to be something. And then from there, it's to say, Well, how do I think I need to get there?

00;25;43;07 - 00;26;17;04
 
And this is key because this now comes back down to what we've always been talking about is the mindset, open mindset, growth mindset, close mindset, fixed mindset. You know, Carol Dweck has that book mindset where it's fixed growth. You know, all of those things factor into to understand some other things that we've talked about. Your mindset could shift based off of little acts of or events that have occurred to where now you've learned something and now you need to make the adjustment, which is what we've just been talking about.

00;26;17;18 - 00;26;46;04
 
So you have to know what you want to do. You have to think about how you're going to get there. You have to have an open mindset to know that as you pursue this, you're going to learn some things and you have to be willing to take what you learn and apply it. If you think about all of the other folks that have also transitioned, one question that I always want to ask somebody is What made you stop listening to what people have shared with you about how to do this?

00;26;47;18 - 00;27;07;17
 
You know, I think, you know, one thing comes to mind is there to issue you read out the there's great examples and steps, Chris, is that you got to write it down, right? How many people are successful in just things that are in their memory or they're in their head? Right. Or they talked about once. Right. I can't think of too many examples of that.

00;27;07;21 - 00;27;31;05
 
Or how do you have check points with your team, your organization, if it's not written down, you say, yeah, let's go off the top of her head every once a month. Like, how are we doing against our results and what was our results? Did I remember correctly you know, so it's one things on that because when they're written down, right, you can reference them, you can use them, and they will reinforce all of your structure and behaviors.

00;27;33;02 - 00;27;57;18
 
Right? Yes. It's an infinite loop. And if you don't have it in front of you, you don't have a focus right now. You could I could be wrong. I'm absolutely not skilled and experienced in the depth of what that could be. As far as a specialization you know, having your thoughts versus writing it down, you could be focused on your thoughts if you're very skilled at it.

00;27;57;18 - 00;28;17;20
 
But is that a way to do it? Maybe there's a technique that you're introducing now is to say, well, instead of that and relying on that because that can be so elusive, then write it down. And when you write it down now, you have a point of reference. How often do we like because you've labeled me some running fanatic to where my knees would argue the point.

00;28;18;06 - 00;28;46;26
 
But when we're out doing something, walking by ourselves in our in our own mind and we think about things, how often do we have this epiphany? So things change. If you have recall, great if you have the ability to recall through being able to see it, you can go back to say, well, that was my thought before. Now I have this new thought and this is journaling, and you're creating a trail of how your thought began and where your thought is growing.

00;28;47;23 - 00;29;10;12
 
And maybe the thought will end if you no longer have it be a priority, but you have you have the ability to trace it and then go back to these things that can help develop these dynamics that allow you to maneuver through the conditions where ambiguity might be coming. Right. It's determining now there's too much space for me to know where to focus on and I don't know where to start.

00;29;10;25 - 00;29;29;23
 
And then you potentially have a higher probability of no longer pursuing it, because now it becomes overwhelming. These types of things, you know, to be impactful, you have to be able to understand where you started and where you want to go. So you can lessons learned, you can do lessons learned, but also you can bring people with you and then you can understand what was what was valuable what was impactful.

00;29;30;17 - 00;29;31;28
 
That got you to that next step.

00;29;33;10 - 00;29;56;11
 
In kind of building upon that is I think there's one thing as well. It's just your goal and is just you and no one else, right? Yep, absolutely. You can think about it as a point of mind, but anything is like how you bring others, right? From engagement, from a from a collaboration perspective. Like what I even think about recently for us at Oracle, we have our Maven 11 kind of initiative, right?

00;29;56;11 - 00;30;23;17
 
Is like the 11 days, you know, going up to the Veterans Day, right? We, we use our slack, we use email that 11. We, we called out and said, hey everybody every day, you know, kind of send a slack message, you know, what did you achieve that day. It had impact. It had impact on me is like, oh what I've forgotten about it great is I was a motivated seeing others had big impact is amazing how the impact of one small thing of just using some tools in setting the goals and results and then being public about it.

00;30;23;17 - 00;30;27;10
 
It was motivating and drove me did it do the same for you.

00;30;29;03 - 00;30;58;16
 
Did and that's a good call out and while we're there you know huge shout out to the military affiliated veteran employee network board where they allow this idea sharing to come up because that that came from an idea means basically what we're talking about we have a large organization filled with veteran affiliated people. Right so we have spouses, we have family members, we have parents we have veterans, we have reservists.

00;30;59;00 - 00;31;20;14
 
We have all of those components inside this organization. And we're all looking for something. And when we bring people together, and we discover that commonality, what can we do to be impactful? What do we want to do to encourage to retain that camaraderie, retain that feeling of that purpose? That we can have in that common bond that we've we've shared through generations?

00;31;21;21 - 00;31;50;20
 
We we came up and we landed on through a conversation. We landed on well, for Veterans Day, let's do maybe 11 for 11 days leading up to Veterans Day. We'll do an activity. And this goes back to the health benefits of being active from the mental state, the emotional state, the physical state, the nutritional value, all of these elements to where we're putting in front of us a target, a goal, an objective and the objective was to try to replicate something in a new environment.

00;31;51;12 - 00;32;08;08
 
And how we did that was brought people together, talked about what we could do and it's a living, breathing thing. It was occurring over time and it kept evolving. And it will continue to evolve because we've introduced so many different things in alternatives that allows us to do those types of things. So how do we measure the impact?

00;32;08;24 - 00;32;28;22
 
Well, actually, Chris, let me try that. We measure impact because we used the Slack channel, right? We we had registration, made a Slack channel and we measured, right? We watched who was participating, who was actually reporting the results like that, that we measured it. Right? That was what mattered in the environment. There's a reward saying, well, you don't get swag if you actually don't report it.

00;32;28;22 - 00;32;32;19
 
So we measured what mattered, right? And we're rewarding people that achieve the goals.

00;32;33;12 - 00;32;53;17
 
Yeah. Good point. Yep. And we did it in a sense to where we left. We left the, the autonomy there, right? Because it didn't matter what people were doing. We weren't monitoring to make sure that people were actually doing something other than just to, to give an incentive, you know, that they could have a purpose for the next day.

00;32;53;18 - 00;33;10;09
 
You know, for some of us that maybe pushed a little too hard on this thing that were our physical limitations or our desire and all that stuff was having us in a certain way one day and we did something, we pushed ourselves hard that day and the next day maybe we're a little sore, but we woke up and somebody else was doing something and we were like, you know what?

00;33;10;23 - 00;33;44;08
 
That person's doing it. I'm doing it. Got us up out and doing it. And, you know, the level of engagement is based off of perception that we talked about. It's relative to those that, you know, in this case were the the creators of it to make sure that it wasn't terrible, meaning, you know, it was safely done. We put you know, resources in to make sure that they have a way to to reference what's needed for them to to to maintain and sustain the things that are necessary to be safe and and capable.

00;33;44;21 - 00;34;07;08
 
You know, but I think at the end of the day, we defined early on, here's what we're trying to do. Here's how we're going to we're going to measure it. And here's how we're not going to measure it. Measure it. How do you make sure you don't over measure or over state? How are you going to let's not even overstate how do you measure your oversight to make sure that it's not too restrictive?

00;34;08;28 - 00;34;45;17
 
Well, that's a good question. I think one of the first, you know, gaps or challenged I think people run into is you measuring too much, right? You over measure, right. And sometimes pressure, you know, the analysis paralysis. Right. Is like we have a goal and you say let's have 15 different measurements like now is that really what matters because ultimately and this is sometimes the ah the science behind it is identify is what is the one or two things that you can measure that really will be indicators of the entire impact you don't want every performance angle is it's not like hey in an airplane like we're going to look at 15,000 different sensors and say

00;34;45;17 - 00;35;02;29
 
we're going to track each one of I know we want to know do we get up in the air and do we land with everyone alive. Right. That's what matters in the end. That's what matters isn't it. So I'm being overly simplistic but I think there is an element is that you really of coming back to who is the customer, right?

00;35;02;29 - 00;35;19;15
 
And what does success look like for that customer? And then what's at what's one metric, what's one litmus test that we can use for that? Right. And I think coming back to our mission is kind of ultimately is we had engagement rate. You know, it was about how many people engaged, right? You know, it was for the greater the who was the customer.

00;35;19;15 - 00;35;30;01
 
It was the community itself. Right. And really, I think this was slack and I think it came into play. We could actually see how many people are engaging. And that was a way we measured. And because there was a lot I think it was a big success.

00;35;31;24 - 00;36;07;17
 
And I would agree. I mean, it's yeah, there's different ways to do that. I mean, we keep talking about it humble, humble, brag about it because, you know, it is it's something we hold dear for for for us for our reasons and we'll leave it there. But so we have we have this this idea we've created a place for those ideas to be shared and heard and regulated I mean, because there's some there's some real far out ideas that that are possible, but probably not in the current state maybe.

00;36;07;17 - 00;36;28;16
 
And we start to think about futuristic. So in any case, the dialog was created for everybody to come together to think about things in you and yourself. And we have this we'll go back to the transition mindset. We know where we want to go. We're thinking about how we're going to get there. We're having an open mind to consider what happens when I'm going to hear from people.

00;36;28;19 - 00;36;48;00
 
I'm going to go out, I'm going to talk to people, I'm going to I'm going to figure out how to do this. This kind of the duality of this issue now that's been created as I have internal a perspective where over over a period of years where we always get jammed up is, well, this is the way I've done it.

00;36;48;12 - 00;37;09;21
 
I'm going to continue to do it this way. And if we're that's why that open mind is critical, because if you're hearing something that you don't like, we all know that sometimes that's what you need to hear when you're not hearing what you want to hear. There's a reason for that. And so when we start to classify what we need to hear as something that I don't want to hear, what do you do with that?

00;37;09;21 - 00;37;27;18
 
And that's the benefit of now opening yourself up to hear things that you haven't heard previously, because that's where your growth potential could occur. When you have that and operate as an opportunity in front of you and then you act on it. I think that's kind of the fore fourth element here is to be impactful. You have to get to the next step and do something with it.

00;37;29;27 - 00;37;49;28
 
Well, something like coming back to a point which I think maybe lateral that is, sometimes you can you can define the doors that that you want to achieve and are measuring, but it's also okay to define the things that you don't want to achieve, right? Is I'll say this is not a priority. This is not you know, it's not about this.

00;37;49;28 - 00;38;04;22
 
It's not about A, B and C, right. Sometimes that gives a lot of clarity on the results you do want to achieve. And there's less confusion because you've got all of of the the negatives, let's say the negative is defined or the non goal is defined as well.

00;38;06;02 - 00;38;25;08
 
So right. David, so that the non goals I mean these are these are factors are things that we all know, you know, a plant, a plan is defined based off of what's known and even what's not known will be known like, hey, we know this. So we're going to try to do that and be aware of these things.

00;38;25;08 - 00;38;43;29
 
And that's the unknown, right? So we factor in some of the things that are unknown with the open mind. We're able to kind of make a clear delineation between where our left and right and a backstop would be like if we occur if we encounter too many things that we didn't plan for, we need to stop. So now we have a measure, a time, a timeline to be able to let's reassess.

00;38;44;15 - 00;39;09;11
 
But then we factor in the things that we weren't aware of, which now comes with other people if other people come into the equation and have input. My question to anybody really is what are you willing because we can't talk about these external occurrences. Do we ever how often do we account for the internal occurrence to say, somebody is going to tell me something?

00;39;10;17 - 00;39;31;24
 
How am I going to see that as one of those factors that we accounted for? And take ourselves out of what that person saying? This is feedback. I mean, basically you can equate it to feedback. Are we going to hear it for what it is and then do something with it or are we going to dismiss it? And this is listening to your leaders write all of these elements that we talk about.

00;39;32;04 - 00;39;37;18
 
When you listen to others, who are you considering the ones that are valuable enough to be heard.

00;39;39;20 - 00;40;02;04
 
Well, I think that's a great point. You know, coming back and communication, listening, right. You know, the connections on, I think a part of the goal is going back to the element of the RACI, the approver, right. You know, who who who is the approver? Who is going to track the results? Is their perception or their acceptance of the results, you know, is that the right person for that?

00;40;02;04 - 00;40;03;29
 
Right. I think it's very, very important to call out.

00;40;05;18 - 00;40;32;13
 
Yeah, it's it's it is it's a tough one because when you're when you're intensely focused on a path that has been defined under different circumstance, ounces in the warmth, the safety comfort of wherever you are, you're developing a plan on your whiteboard while you have coffee in your hand. You know, you're you're comfortable and then you get out.

00;40;32;13 - 00;40;59;23
 
And now it's uncomfortable because the inclement weather, it's cold. It's it's not where you want to be. How does information occur to you in different environments and circumstances where you're going to continue on with the point as as you act, you should understand completely that that's your learning environment. And that's probably the only I mean, this is debatable, but this is me talking.

00;41;01;20 - 00;41;20;08
 
That's the only thing that you should ever carry into your mindset is everything that's going to happen after I take this next step is something that I need. I need to learn, I need to pay attention to. I need to factor in what I'm going to do next. Now, you can compartmentalize it. You can say well, that's that's important, that's urgent.

00;41;20;18 - 00;41;37;06
 
That's not as important. That's relevant. Maybe not relevant now. But I'm going to make note. This goes back to what you're saying, writing it down. So you have a, you know, some nuggets and breadcrumbs to go back to you to say so-and-so said something a couple of weeks ago that I didn't know that it meant something then, but it means something now.

00;41;37;15 - 00;41;51;25
 
And you have record of it and you can incorporate it because you never know when these things will come together to build something. The pieces to the puzzle. You're going to get pieces over time that you never know if it's going to actually surface itself to be relevant in the future. You don't know, but you have to think about it.

00;41;52;20 - 00;41;59;28
 
Well, I think I spot on, Chris. I that's why we had all the bulls written down for maybe 11 because like everyone on Veterans Day was doing a marathon, wasn't that correct?

00;42;02;15 - 00;42;12;11
 
I think you need to wear your bow tie and your sweater vest, get out there and do that marathon. If you do that, I'll run with you all right.

00;42;12;11 - 00;42;16;19
 
As long as I your game for under three 30 Boston qualifier Chris Stapleton.

00;42;17;29 - 00;42;19;05
 
Not saying it's impossible.

00;42;20;06 - 00;42;28;04
 
That's right. If it was the end of the world and if we got invaded like in the red movie Red Dawn right. Yep yep. We'll run some marathons yeah.

00;42;28;09 - 00;42;53;29
 
Chase me and we'll see what happens. I don't know yeah. So you know thinking about where you want to go thinking about how you can get there and your current mindset knowing that your current mindset is not the future mindset think about what you're going to incorporate as part as far as the, the contributors to your growth to know if, if what you're doing is aligned to what you set out to do.

00;42;55;07 - 00;43;18;06
 
Anticipate that you're going to learn things along the way and have that as your primary objective so you can receive information or clarity without interference of your self-talk or your conditioned mindset that has you thinking, Well, this is the way I've done it before. This is how I'm going to do it again. I mean, there's there's limitations on that.

00;43;18;06 - 00;43;40;01
 
And I think we all get that context and then what how are you going to incorporate as you learn, what are you going to need to do to be impactful? It takes a little bit of work I think the thing that you landed on early, David, was key the plan. What is the plan? Because some of us just have an idea and then we execute on that idea.

00;43;40;11 - 00;43;58;02
 
I use your analogy, so sitting on my butt for several months, I used to run sitting on my butt for several months. I go out and try to run that tank. Not good. It's not a great idea. Your hips will tell you things, right? Your knees will tell you things. All right. So I use those as an indicator.

00;43;58;02 - 00;44;07;18
 
And the analogy of like you can't just get up and do stuff if you've never done it before and think that you're going to get to where you want to be. And if you do well, congrats. You're lucky.

00;44;08;14 - 00;44;26;10
 
I think a spot on, you know, kind of on closing, Chris, is that ultimately you set your goal, build your plan. Who is the customer? Sometimes the customer is yourself. Sometimes the customer is your boss. Sometimes your customer is an external customer. Then define how you're going to measure that result in a way that you can actually measure.

00;44;26;12 - 00;44;44;21
 
Right. And the last but not least, right you have regular check points and milestones until they actually look, are we on plan? Do we need change the plan? Are we going to achieve the results or not is sometimes there can be things are coming up but you adjust. You now have a new plan, you have update the customer, update your approval, and then you get ready to go.

00;44;45;15 - 00;44;51;22
 
Well stated. Last thing, listen to your people all right. David Z it.

00;44;53;17 - 00;45;11;06
 
Is that it, Chris? Well, we're never ending. You know, our goal is that every month we're going to get 10% more listeners to the podcast and we're not going to we're going to take the variables, we're going to get the feedback on that and we, we're going to continue to strive to that. And because we can keep doing that forever, it can't we?

00;45;12;01 - 00;45;25;10
 
We could. I'm going to, I'm going to throw something out here. It's just we're talking about that. If you got this far into this podcast, and this episode and you hear this send send David and I have a LinkedIn message and say, I heard it.

00;45;27;15 - 00;45;45;23
 
We loved it. We'd love to hear from you. And I would say that people that have reached out to us, I respond to every single one. We welcome the feedback and because we want to make this better for the community. And so we're excited to get all your messages. And even though I get a gazillion messages from LinkedIn scammers or what else, I respond to everyone.

00;45;45;24 - 00;45;46;14
 
Believe it or not.

00;45;47;07 - 00;45;50;12
 
I believe it already. One Keep moving forward.

00;45;50;24 - 00;45;51;11
 
Let's roll.

Reviewing one’s activity and experiences to assess the effect or value of the outcome is what we often do with intention, sometimes without even realizing we are doing it. Thinking about how we performed, interacted with others, or maybe even didn’t do enough is important. What’s more important is how we manage those thoughts where we regulate what we think, how we feel, and what we need to do. There are specific techniques that help! Focusing on the mental and cognitive aspects of our performance is a key component in the complete package of personal optimization.

 

We’re talking Reflection and Regulation. Listen in as Colin and I continue our discussion journey of how EXOS delivers value toward helping get you ready for the moments that matter. Remember to take time to care for yourself.

 

We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

Episode Transcript:

00;00;08;00 - 00;00;33;07
 
You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our guest, Colin Young, senior director of Operations with Axios, reviewing one's activity and experiences to assess the effect or value of the outcome is what we often do with intention.

00;00;33;16 - 00;00;55;11
 
Sometimes without even realizing we're doing it thinking about how we performed, interacted with others, or maybe didn't do enough are important. What's more important is how we manage those thoughts, where we regulate what we think, how we feel, and what we need to do. There are specific techniques that help. Focusing on the mental and cognitive aspect of our performance is a key component in the complete package of personal optimism.

00;00;55;22 - 00;01;12;11
 
Today, we're talking reflection and regulation. Listen in as Colin and I continue our discussion journey of how EXOS delivers value towards helping you get ready for the moments that matter. Remember to take time to care for yourself. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent.

00;01;12;12 - 00;01;28;08
 
As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Collins Contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn Call and what's going on.

00;01;29;09 - 00;01;30;10
 
Good morning. Good afternoon.

00;01;31;11 - 00;01;59;20
 
Hey, it's great to have you, Colin. You know, I know we've we've got a pretty good schedule going on. And for everybody out there listening, we've got Colin Young here, who is the senior director of operations within XO. And the topic for today that Colin will speak to is focused on reflection and regulation. And in the scheme of everything that we're putting together, how we broken down on these components, it's important that we we cover the whole gamut and make sure that we're talking about how to think about things and consider what you're going to do moving forward.

00;01;59;21 - 00;02;05;22
 
So the depth will come from Colin and everything that he's going to do to explain it. So Colin.

00;02;06;10 - 00;02;15;04
 
So you know, you're expecting depth. All right. You know, I usually hang out with my son in the shallow area, but I'll do my best to dove in with you today.

00;02;15;05 - 00;02;17;04
 
So let's go. Yeah.

00;02;18;02 - 00;02;39;01
 
So, yeah, so I'm really excited to be here. My background for, for those that probably haven't heard my name is in coaching in general. I started as a strength coach, like many folks who have been with EXOS for a long time. Right. We were athletes performance a long time ago. And have since rebranded and expanded. And so I started coaching at a young age.

00;02;39;17 - 00;02;58;18
 
I was involved in sports in high school and college, played college baseball and it was a small school. So oddly enough, I ended up being our strength coach my senior year. So I got my first kind of like dabble into that world before I was even out of there. I was an extra science and sports science major, so I really enjoy the coaching aspect of it.

00;02;58;28 - 00;03;27;24
 
Went on to join athletes performance in its infancy, and we expanded and now we coach in a lot of different realms. We coach in the workplace, we coach incorporate fitness facilities, but still rooted in that kind of like athlete's background. Which I always very much relate to myself. So now what I'm doing is shifted kind of pretty dramatically into more of the mental and cognitive performance side of things, which is still just coaching with a different lens.

00;03;28;05 - 00;03;56;10
 
And it's just been incredibly rewarding and an educational and just a ton of fun for me to to shift my lens to this new space and understanding how much overlap there is and being able to bring my experience there. So direct director of operations and say a whole lot with the title, you know about it. Yeah, that's, that's where I'm at now is operating a lot of our programs that are designed around mental and cognitive performance.

00;03;56;10 - 00;04;09;00
 
How can I get the most of myself? How can I get the most out of my team? How can I find the most kind of rewarding aspects of what I do and who I am as an individual each day? And that's that's my focus day to day now.

00;04;09;25 - 00;04;14;24
 
Got it. Now, I appreciate that backdrop but what position in baseball?

00;04;15;19 - 00;04;41;24
 
I was an outfielder, and then my senior year I got to D.H., which is like the best position in baseball, especially playing ball in the Pacific Northwest. You know, it's not exactly your season starts in February. It's not the greatest weather. So it's like, all right, I've been playing defense. I'm a step by the space here. Like, you guys are great, you're doing great out there, and then go up and hit, you know, three to five times a game and come back and said so yeah.

00;04;42;14 - 00;04;49;08
 
I got to say, because of all the great dishes out there, do you have walk on music? What was your what was your song?

00;04;49;09 - 00;05;15;02
 
We we did oh, man. You know, I think I was always and we'll maybe get to this. Maybe we can dissect some of my own internal workings here. I didn't I wasn't always and still to this day, not like super high volumes go, go, go type music, whether it's hip hop, rock, whatever it is. So my senior year, my walk up song was Fortunate Son by CCR.

00;05;15;05 - 00;05;15;24
 
Oh, there you go.

00;05;16;05 - 00;05;25;05
 
It's just kind of like, hey, I'm already hyped up enough to get to the play. Like, let me call myself down a little bit and kind of get zoned in. So yeah, that was my walkup song my senior year.

00;05;25;14 - 00;05;28;01
 
I like it. Yeah, that that paints the picture.

00;05;28;12 - 00;05;28;29
 
There you go.

00;05;29;16 - 00;05;33;18
 
All right. So so about when did you did you join XOs?

00;05;34;13 - 00;06;02;09
 
Yeah, I did my internship in 2008 it was where I started. And then after that I worked mostly with baseball players, obviously with my background a little bit with our combine prep program that you may or may not have touched on in previous episodes with Anthony or John or whomever. So mostly baseball guys. And then I see it, the longer, longer I've been with the company, the more it feels like a little hiatus.

00;06;03;03 - 00;06;24;18
 
It was on a paid internship. They didn't have anything for me. I went and got a job elsewhere. I did some coaching at a charter school coach, football and baseball and soccer and everything from like kick and giggle all the way up to two more competitive spaces. And then was a director at the YMCA for a few years at a very young age and three apartments, our wellness membership and aquatics department.

00;06;25;01 - 00;06;41;10
 
Oddly enough, they just kind of kicked it to me. So and then came back full time with the company in 2011. So and then since then I've held a ton of different roles. Like I said, I started as a strength coach when I came back and then kind of shifted into management and then have shifted and since into this kind of mental performance space.

00;06;41;27 - 00;06;51;22
 
Got it. And so what's the attract into this mental space that we're talking about and what is, what is reflection and regulation mean to the layman?

00;06;52;15 - 00;07;16;07
 
Yeah. So first question kind of what, what attracted me to the space? Yeah, my my other major in college was psychology. So that was always kind of around. And oddly enough, I really enjoyed my time at the Y Looking back on it, maybe I didn't enjoy it at the time, but it was it was such a rewarding experience for me to see in the grand scheme of things.

00;07;16;07 - 00;07;45;07
 
The YMCA is is not known for its progressiveness and excellence in the movement and fitness space. However, if you look at and think of some of the benefits and some of the things of the YMCA as well, it's community and that society just kind of so I really delve into the psychology of how to build a community, how to get someone and many someones to start a habit and keep a habit that's positive for them.

00;07;45;07 - 00;08;09;05
 
So you learn things like motivational interviewing, you learn things like group dynamics, just kind of on the fly and you see the attitude there. And so that really helped propel my, my interest in it and have since taken that and apply to both to my own teams that I manage within EXOS as well as with the content that we create for this kind of mental and cognitive performance space.

00;08;09;05 - 00;08;27;27
 
So it's always kind of been around for me. It was kind of accelerated with with the YMCA at the time with that concept of community because you know, we say all the time you could have the best program in the world. If someone doesn't show up to do it, it doesn't matter. And so it's like, you know, they get results from people just because people enjoy being there and coming back.

00;08;27;27 - 00;08;46;14
 
So it's like, how do you how do you pair the two to really get the most out of someone, get them coming back and then, man, you're really dialed in for one of their and so now, you know, we're where we're at with mental, mental and cognitive performance. It's it's really, really interesting to kind of apply that in the workforce.

00;08;46;25 - 00;09;17;04
 
And certainly for me in my own personal endeavors as well, and that's where I loved it was probably a favorite topic to talk about a reflection and regulation and what does that mean? So reflection is really just can I observe myself and my surrounding sands critiques sans ego, right? Can I do it without judgment? And then regulation is can I go through that observation again?

00;09;17;18 - 00;09;40;29
 
Can I then determine what is required of my own performance and those around me eventually? But typically, most of us spend a ton of time on on our own endeavors. Can I understand? Hey, here's the situation. Here's what I understand it to be and here's what's required of me as far as my own performance. And then that regulation gets into a bunch of different kind of wires that we could certainly go into a little bit.

00;09;40;29 - 00;09;54;10
 
So a lot of people love to just jump into regulation. It's also like yeah, so we can get into it further, but a lot of people love regulation. I kind of have spent an equal time in both, and I think you need both to maximize performance.

00;09;55;25 - 00;10;22;26
 
Hundred percent immediately. I'm applying it, I think, well, in the past episodes I've probably bored people with how I look at it for me. And when I'm talking to those of you that have this specialization, the principle is if I'm getting ready to go out and do something, I'm thinking about me and kind of translating and what you're saying as far as observing the surroundings, hey, my I'm recognizing my physical limitations or the abilities.

00;10;22;26 - 00;10;40;12
 
And so I'm going to go out and I'm going to run the mountain or I'm going to run up this hill, I'm going to run or I'm going to walk or I'm going to do something. I'm trying to trying to figure out whether or not I'm capable of doing it with the things that I know and then trying to anticipate whether I know what I should know.

00;10;40;22 - 00;10;50;28
 
Right. And so I'm just trying to figure out, is that is that kind of the idea between the reflection is you're kind of going through the cycles of your own mind to figure out what you want to do, where you want to do it and how you want to do it.

00;10;51;24 - 00;11;17;28
 
Yeah, I think, yeah. You summarized it really nicely. You know, there's there's so it starts with kind of drive, you know, we do something calls about a values exploration and kind of understanding what's driving you both in a positive and a negative. Like that's one thing we call kind of the shadow self a little bit. You know, a lot of people call the subconscious whatever it is, you know, we are as human beings are built to kind of go on autopilot.

00;11;17;28 - 00;11;34;10
 
And a lot of those things aren't necessarily helping us kind of get to that next level and kind of grow and do what we want to do. And so understanding what those drivers are, you might have a conscious driver of like consciously, you and I probably sit here and go, oh, I want to be as healthy as I can be.

00;11;34;16 - 00;12;03;12
 
I want to go train every day. I want to train hard, I want to eat healthy, I want to be present with my family. I want to do all of these things right like consciously I'm going to say, of course, we're gonna be like, yeah, you know, and but subconsciously, like, why don't we every minute or every hour of the day and every day of the week and every week of the month and month of the year, why don't we always strive towards doing those things which we consciously say Yes, that's what I want.

00;12;03;12 - 00;12;24;16
 
That's a driver. And that's that's kind of the, the, you know, one of the spaces you can take is, is what is truly driving me. And that's, I think, a great place to apply kind of what we would look at as a reflection. We break reflection down in the name. Reflection is a little bit misleading because it's things it kind of leads you to think retroactively.

00;12;25;02 - 00;12;46;00
 
And we look at it. You could also use a little bit of a synonym towards awareness and that word might spark things a little bit differently. So we break it down into three spaces. There's proactive and retroactive certainly. So like proactively to your point of doing an assessment, say I'm going on a hike or whatever, doing that assessment, like where am I truly at doing that self assessment?

00;12;46;20 - 00;13;04;17
 
What do I need? You know, the proactive space and then retroactive would be going out. Like how did that go? How did I feel? What did I experience? What did I do well? What could I have done better right there? Those kind of bookends of it. But then that holy grail of what we categorize under reflection or awareness is real time awareness.

00;13;04;27 - 00;13;25;02
 
And that's where reflection in regulation or awareness and regulation or almost an inextricably linked. It's also probably the most challenging place to get to when you're trying to upskill in this space of self-awareness for a variety of reasons. So yeah.

00;13;26;00 - 00;13;43;20
 
Is that just so I'm clear on that one? Because when you said it, I started to smirk. Now I'm running, I've gone through the first two things, now I'm running and I'm imagining how much this running sucks. Is that that part where it's the real time awareness to where you're going through it and then you're paying attention to what's happening while it's happening?

00;13;44;01 - 00;13;45;00
 
Where am I off there?

00;13;45;16 - 00;14;06;25
 
No, no, not at all. Yeah, that's that's part of it. Again, within that awareness we've got, we'll break it down for we love turning things into systems. I think that's what's allowed XOs to be great is you've got phenomenal, you know, the coaches and, and string coaches and within each section and with their specialties all over the place.

00;14;06;25 - 00;14;31;26
 
And that knowledge end up staying very tribal in nature. And with them learning what access has been able to do really well with systematize a lot of this and have it makes sense and this really makes sense to me. So it's like within real time awareness. There's three things that we're looking at. What you're definitely talking about is, is there's the kind of what we got into receptive like physically what's going on within my body at that time there's emotional awareness.

00;14;31;26 - 00;14;55;28
 
So like what emotions are my experiencing? Like am I, you know, okay, this is difficult. Like in what how am I tackling that? Am I frustrated? Am I, you know, looking at is is as some type of challenge, you know, whatever it is, right? What emotions are bubbling up for you? And then from kind of like a thought pattern awareness.

00;14;55;28 - 00;15;17;08
 
So, you know, what am I thinking? Where am I going with this? Can you this is where like meditation comes into play really really as a tool to teach this, to help you observe your thoughts, like, oh, wow, this is really challenging. Do I immediately go to school I can take this on? Do I have the self-efficacy to say this is challenging, but it's doable.

00;15;17;08 - 00;15;33;14
 
I can do this. I know it's difficult. I've done difficult things before. I'm going to do it or is like, I want to give up I hate this. This sucks. Whatever it is, right? There's no right or wrong within that space, but just being aware of which way you kind of go in that space. So like what are my emotions?

00;15;33;14 - 00;15;42;11
 
What are my thoughts and what's my body telling me doing in the space and being aware of that in real time can can be really challenging yeah.

00;15;42;11 - 00;16;05;13
 
That that's, that's where I think the discipline in those things is probably I'm assuming that the focus here is to get you to understand there's phases of realizations. You broke them down seemingly in chunks of threes, which is a great start, but it's procedural and you've planned for that. And this this is all again, to reiterate, this is all part of the reflective component.

00;16;05;22 - 00;16;10;28
 
We haven't gotten to the to the regulation part or has that kind of mixed into each.

00;16;10;28 - 00;16;48;23
 
Other it certainly ties into it, absolutely. You know, so emotions, right? They'll they're going to bubble up. So they might as humans were designed with these crazy, amazing survival mechanisms. And so what happens is in real time, we take in a stimulus from our environment or even from our internal environment. We might remember a stressful thing in our body is really good and our brains are really good at making something that either hasn't happened or or has happened and isn't happening to us anymore feel very real.

00;16;49;14 - 00;17;13;04
 
And so the stimulus could be from our external or internal environment. It bubbles it up. And then our brain the thing is that stimulus goes through the amygdala, which is at the base of our school, which is the emotive center of the brain after it's also interpreted by the central nervous system that allows us gets us ready for movement.

00;17;13;09 - 00;17;35;23
 
So we're already already ready to move or act and we're already feeling things before that stimulus makes it up into our frontal cortex or frontal lobe, which is where our executive function and that's where we actually cognitively and consciously can start to internalize what this is and so that's designed to help us react very quickly to a life threatening situation.

00;17;35;23 - 00;17;56;17
 
Right. Which was there were a lot more of those back before modern medicine and before our stressors. So it's like these stressful environments. Right. Cool. So my brain is automatically looking at some shaking bushes and interpreting all these different signals, sounds, smells, like it's all those things to say, hey, is that just the wind or a squirrel or is that something a little bit more threatening?

00;17;56;28 - 00;18;16;26
 
And so I perhaps chose to act it helps us with through emotions, ties it to previous experiences of, oh, it was a squirrel. Cool. You know, I might, you know, by the time he gets to the frontal lobe, I can say, yeah, that's not not a big deal. Or is it like, oh, that really resembles a time where I had to get out of Dodge.

00;18;17;03 - 00;18;44;23
 
And so it's we're already like anxious. We're already are our senses are heightened and we might already be a little bit frightened or scared. And so when we get a stimulus that is is sent to us there and the stimulus has shifted, now it's I get you know, someone triggered me because I they said something in a way that someone in a toxic past relationship said something or I had a bad manager or my manager isn't great in there.

00;18;45;00 - 00;19;21;08
 
They're, you know, sending an email in a certain tone and so that starts to trigger. And our body interprets that and our brain interprets then it ties it to a survival mechanism. Oh, if I lose my job, I can't provide for my family. You know, I'm not going to be able to to make things happen. So it bridges this huge gap for us, even though the stressors of change, the response is the same and so we're already fighting against this uphill battle of of the survival mechanism when we have especially stressful or interpretative stress for stimulus into our environment.

00;19;21;08 - 00;19;42;03
 
And that's where the awareness piece can come in being aware of, hey, I'm feeling a certain way. I'm feeling this physical sensation of, oh, I'm sweating or my, my stomach is upset or my heart is racing. There's the interceptor oh, my thought patterns are going, oh, I'm not very good at my job because I screw this up or whatever it is.

00;19;43;05 - 00;20;12;29
 
And then now being aware of that, then we can start to look at regulating in that that space. And then we can start to say, Okay, wow, this anxiety is built to help me survive. Right? There's a purpose for it, but it's not serving me right now. So then how do I, in this case, down regulate my body and my brain to help me come to a more we'll call it productive outcome for this.

00;20;12;29 - 00;20;28;28
 
So that's a long ways. I say it's really challenging. Why it's so challenging to both be aware in the space and also why regulation is so challenging to put into play and why you have to have both. Because if you don't know what you need to regulate you're not aware that you don't. It doesn't matter. We can be all the tools in the world.

00;20;29;03 - 00;20;33;16
 
You're not going be applying it properly. You're going to be trying to eat a bowl of cereal with a pitchfork or something, you know?

00;20;33;17 - 00;20;36;14
 
So it's a big old ball. Remember those?

00;20;36;27 - 00;20;38;16
 
Hey, you know what? Now I'm kind of hungry.

00;20;38;16 - 00;20;42;14
 
So for charter school, come in front of the TV on the table.

00;20;42;27 - 00;20;43;19
 
That's right.

00;20;43;19 - 00;21;08;19
 
Captain Crunch for days right. So I'm so thanks for that. I mean, so there's a couple of things with this to kind of just figure out where it applies in some scenarios. So, I mean, you talked about some workplace scenarios, talked about says anywhere in life, you just basically assessing when you're when you're awake and you look around, things are happening all the time.

00;21;08;19 - 00;21;25;03
 
You've you've regulated it right now. I know you're going to get to that. But just kind of for for all of us trying to figure out what bookmark where we are. You regulated it in a way, too, where you've now understood it enough to say threat, not threat is that we're saying, right, I'm getting up I'm walking here, no big deal.

00;21;25;16 - 00;21;43;24
 
But if I'm now same scenario or I'm getting up, I'm the environment's different. I'm in my tent in the middle of nowhere where I already know that there's threats of bears and wildlife and things like that. I'm getting up needing to go walk over there. I'm more alert. It's different because you're regulation hasn't yet the experience of that particular scenario.

00;21;43;24 - 00;21;54;21
 
So you're developing these patterns that we can maybe simplify our self-talk, right? You're trying to speak yourself through these scenarios. Is that kind of a good gauge for that situation of what you just said?

00;21;55;13 - 00;22;00;18
 
So you're talking about like in an actual scenario where you're out in the wild or, you know.

00;22;00;27 - 00;22;05;13
 
Kind of piecing it together and like this reality component of everything that you broke down?

00;22;05;25 - 00;22;32;20
 
Yes. Yep. So we talk about all the time. Biology will always trump psychology so, you know, self-talk can be great in more of a proactive space, you know, and saying, hey, look, we know that like talking and rewriting even more so helps ingrain things in the brain to to help us overcome. So if you're for example, you know, like your hike or you run or whatever, right?

00;22;32;21 - 00;22;53;27
 
Like if you get to a point where you're actually anxious or you're kind of beyond just kind of walk all of the norms of of, you know, our emotions and our reactions, psychology and psychological tactics like visualization and self-talk, they get a little bit diminished returns to the point where they may not and may not be be helpful.

00;22;53;27 - 00;23;11;23
 
And that's where we use things like breath quite a bit to help us use our biology to try to change the psychology. There's this interesting feedback loop, and I'm pointing between my brain and my body if we're on audio here, right? It's like we think of it as like brain and body, but like it's all the nervous system.

00;23;11;23 - 00;23;31;26
 
It's all it's all linked together. But there's this feedback loop of like my brain in how I thought we talked about how you can relive past experiences, and that will trigger physical response, could be anxiety, could be joy, could be whatever, and then vice versa. We can actually have our bodies say, look, we're in a safe space. You know, we don't have to be stressed out here.

00;23;32;04 - 00;23;51;27
 
And that's where you can kind of calm yourself down or downregulate. And so we use things like breath, we use things like vision, natural light, movements are all wonderful strategies to help us kind of up or down regulate, because there might be times where a lot of us we're talking about downregulation, there's stress and we need to kind of bring ourselves down.

00;23;52;05 - 00;24;13;08
 
There's also like, ah, afternoon low, I'm a little lethargic or I didn't sleep well and I need to be kind of dialed for this coming up. I mean, that's one thing why we talk so much with our special operators. The community that we work with about sleep is like, Man, you're starting this huge deficit. We know you're going to be going and going out at different times.

00;24;13;08 - 00;24;32;27
 
It doesn't matter. You're on the different patterns but sleep when you can because it's always kind of a huge hole to dig out of. But then and you might need to upregulate, Hey, I know I'm going into a dangerous situation. I need to be dialed. I want to have some of those things like adrenaline going through my body because it will focus my attention and energy and I will be more alert.

00;24;33;07 - 00;24;54;07
 
So there's kind of like, okay, turn the dial up. Turn the dial down. That's where a tie is to reflection. Hey, what do I need in this space? And we really try to use especially for Downregulation, but also for up using using biology to help us out and so that's where like breathwork comes into play is a fantastic strategy both directions, so.

00;24;54;17 - 00;25;21;02
 
Got it. Okay. Thanks for that. Yeah. So yeah, the second one I was going to you answered already because then I was thinking about movements. If you're, if you're injured and because of in the rehab process, you're having to address that injury the hesitation, the reluctance to do it because you had the pain receptor is recognizing if I do that, move my knees going to whatever I think my knee is going to do, whatever kind of the same thing, different scenarios.

00;25;21;02 - 00;25;23;29
 
I guess it's just kind of how you're imagining things. Yeah.

00;25;24;12 - 00;25;47;12
 
Totally. Yeah. I mean, what we're talking about, the ability to regulate the ability to kind of get ourselves up to do the hard thing to to, you know, find space and clarity in a stressful situation, very much like especially there's trauma, emotional trauma, like physical trauma. You're going to avoid it. That's a shadow driver that you may or may not be conscious of for a long period of time.

00;25;47;26 - 00;26;19;02
 
And so kind of digging into it in the right way and within the right boundaries is going to be critical and doing it over and over again, practicing that just like with rehab. Right it if you have a phenomenal surgeon, put everything back to back together, if you don't kind of get those reps in of putting it through the range of motion strengthening, you know, getting that confidence and like that's oftentimes a huge portion of rehab is like guys physically how the capabilities to come back from an ACL.

00;26;19;11 - 00;26;37;28
 
But they just it's so tough to trust it there and you've just got to get the reps in. You know, I can change direction, I can change direction, I can change direction. And then when it comes into that kind of chaotic space like on the field, then you don't have to think about it. You don't want to have to be think about it's like you make a make it unconscious.

00;26;37;28 - 00;26;59;21
 
And so it becomes a habit. And so it just like with that emotionally and regulating, putting yourself in those situations, and creating that tolerance to stress is is is really helpful or understanding, you know, putting the reps in to understand that awareness. Like that's where meditation like a lot of people hate it. A lot of people struggle with it.

00;26;59;22 - 00;27;17;02
 
Our CEO, you know, that's my I'm on, I'm on. I work with her a decent amount and that's my goal is to get her to just, you know, spend, you know, 5 minutes a month, you know, just taking, you know, stillness practice and kind of bringing the attention inward with no distractions. That takes practice and you can get better at it.

00;27;17;27 - 00;27;35;09
 
And so, yeah, the injury analogy is, is perfect of, hey, there's something that's driving us in that I'm working around. If I can kind of keep digging into that, keep get those reps in, I'm going to be able to regulate more when there's a little bit more stress. I'm going to be able to understand myself and how I'm going to respond in those situations.

00;27;35;15 - 00;27;40;07
 
And therefore make it a more productive outcome. So, yeah, it's it's spot on.

00;27;40;24 - 00;27;59;08
 
Got it now. Thanks for that, doc. I mean, I now I know what you mean where you're going to bounce back and forth when you try and explain one of the other. So I think we covered the reflection part and we've dabbled in the regulation component and let's dig deeper.

00;27;59;20 - 00;28;31;24
 
Yeah. So I'd say one of the big tools we use is a good representative of up and down regulation is, is breathwork. So we're trying to like, okay, let's make a tangible call and cool. You know, you're going off on bushes and stimulus and you know, things are going to harm me. What I like is it's kind of sounds a little bit out there, but like, okay, let's make it tangible the first thing from a reflective component that we can do is take a few moments proactively.

00;28;31;24 - 00;28;50;03
 
What is the day going to demand of me? Okay. Hey, I've got a podcast that I've got to chat about and try to sound smart for a few minutes. I want to make sure that I do the right things proactively to get myself ready for that. And then afterwards I'm going to say, Hey, well, why didn't, you know, get feedback from Chris and all that kind of stuff?

00;28;50;03 - 00;29;08;06
 
And so cool. Did you know, how did I do with that? And then real time I got to make sure, hey, what is my, my current state, my getting really excited talking about this stuff? Do I need to maybe slow my voice down a little bit? Right. So there's there's that component to it. So finding that space, I think, is really crucial.

00;29;08;06 - 00;29;28;14
 
That's one thing that we straw like that. We we see that high performers struggle with is everybody wants to do more, give me more stuff to do. And we love to focus on being. And so when we're tired, that's where, you know, again, I'll come back to the concept of stillness or meditation or mindfulness, whatever you want to label it.

00;29;29;18 - 00;29;54;29
 
Some we work with a lot of SEO is a lot of athletes, a lot of special operators. Just give me more to do. I give me the perfect exercise, give me the perfect meal plan, give me the perfect strategy. But when you just say, cool, here's what I like you to do. I would like you to sit alone with no distractions in your eyes closed for 5 minutes and people almost like recoil from that.

00;29;55;16 - 00;30;20;14
 
But what we're doing is as we're getting better at understanding what's going on internally, and be depending on what your protocol is for your meditation, you're learning to bring your info, your focus and attention to where you want it to be. And it just I know it sounds maybe, I don't know, base level, but think of just truly how powerful that can be throughout your life.

00;30;20;14 - 00;30;41;16
 
Like when I want to focus and bring my attention to something that's important to me, man. Like, I want to be perfectly I got a two and a half year old, like the days and months are flying by. Do you know he's talking? And I just I still remember and he was just, you know, a little tiny nugget and like, I don't want to I don't want to be distracted from that.

00;30;41;16 - 00;30;57;14
 
And it's, you know, there's everything is is designed to distract us from it, thinking about what happened at work, our phones, you know, everything going on. What do I have to do tomorrow? But, man, that is what's really important to me right now. And I'm going to do my best to make sure that I can focus that. And so you have to practice that.

00;30;57;22 - 00;31;16;28
 
You have to practice not getting distracted and so, you know, that's that's for me what's most important. But for others, it could be, hey, I really want to dial an interview. I want I've got to get up for again, our special operator community like I've got to be perfectly dialed and focus for this mission because it is literally life or death.

00;31;16;28 - 00;31;32;26
 
Right? So like imagine being able to to bring your focus and attention where you wanted to be. So I'm from a kind of awareness standpoint. I think that's that's a great place. Do you have to kind of the book ends of the day for the proactive and retroactive of those are great places to start there a little easier, right?

00;31;32;26 - 00;31;54;05
 
You're a little further removed from, you know, the real time kind of chaos of of life. And then, you know, the meditative component or the stillness practice, there's a bunch of different ways you can do that, but just sit alone and with with nothing, no distractions for a minute, for 2 minutes, for 5 minutes. And and that can be really, really powerful.

00;31;54;05 - 00;32;24;16
 
So that's from a reflective or awareness component and then from a regular literary component, especially in an in the midst of kind of needing to get myself up or bring myself down. We love starting with breathwork, and it's really the simple strategy is the longer your exhale is especially and compared to your inhale, the more signals it's going to send to your brain that you can be in this rest and digest state.

00;32;24;20 - 00;32;54;26
 
So if I have a nice like an elongated exhale there, that's going to start sending signals that, hey, anxiety isn't really what I need here. I don't need my brain and my thoughts to be going a million miles an hour. I just can be calm. And then it's quite the opposite. Like forceful, short exhales you think of like things like athletes or like I always think of like a bobsled or like they slap their legs and then go, right.

00;32;54;26 - 00;33;17;01
 
They're actually up regulating so we have, you know, a ton of different protocols that can go as long as 25 minutes. They can almost put you in a bit of a euphoric state. When you get there. Yeah, but just like short, you know, power breathing, that kind of stuff. Like is, is kind of the, the simplest way to break that down and utilize your breath.

00;33;17;01 - 00;34;03;09
 
So most people, I would say throughout the day, breathe too quickly and put themselves into more of this kind of fight or flight stress response chronically which does not serve us. And so most people, we could benefit from slowing our breathing down just in general. And for those that are like colony loss me and meditation but maybe, you know, I want to do something to help myself, breathwork and even just rhythmically breathing without having a crazy protocol, but just focusing a little bit more on that exhale, rhythmically breathing for 5 minutes a day has actually been shown to have the same chronic benefits as far as like morbidity, blood pressure, heart disease, all those things like in

00;34;03;09 - 00;34;24;05
 
a positive manner in the same way that like meditation can. So like if you're like, I don't really want to meditate, but hey, maybe I'll try that. You're just focusing on my breathing and bringing attention there that can be really beneficial. So you don't you don't need to meditate to calm yourself down a little bit. But there are certainly other benefits of meditative practices.

00;34;24;10 - 00;34;28;02
 
So yeah, it's so that there's a bunch there.

00;34;28;14 - 00;34;28;23
 
Yeah.

00;34;29;09 - 00;34;37;07
 
But so I wrote down some things as you were going through that stuff and so that the kind of the that stuff, I don't mean to undermine what you did.

00;34;37;08 - 00;34;41;12
 
Oh no, it's totally fine. My wife feels the same way. So yeah, that's about what I do.

00;34;41;20 - 00;35;05;03
 
It's, it's you know, the, the do more and doing right. And then it's the, it's the, the, maybe it's not what I believe so much is. It is what it could be but I'll say I believe it to be this way as it's conditioned. We've been led to believe that we have to in order to influence or persuade others that were effective.

00;35;05;19 - 00;35;28;14
 
I'm, if I'm doing more than they'll look at me as I'm being bringing some value. Right. And so I think there's this value component is started in this kind of play games, at least in my life stage, to realize what the value is that is actually giving me the belief that if I do more or if I do X, then I'm going to get the things that I'm expecting.

00;35;28;14 - 00;35;57;29
 
So the expectations that come from it. And so when it comes now to the the to the flow of thought to believe, when you say, oh, you want to do that, let's start with 5 minutes of breath work immediately. Is it is it do you find that it's because you're telling them something that's so far off when they thought they were going to hear from you as far as what the steps would be on how to get to that high performing out element of breathwork?

00;35;57;29 - 00;36;13;05
 
What are you talking about? So it's the resistance of what I've what I've been conditioned to believe or understand as far as what is necessary to become a high performer. Never thought about breathwork. Is it more of a resistance to what they've been conditioned to understand or is it something else?

00;36;13;29 - 00;36;34;19
 
Yeah, you know, that's a good question. It's certainly a little bit different for each for each of us like. Well, again, that goes back to drivers, right? You know what is what is driving the need for this accomplishment, this need to do more? A lot of it is. And this is where we talk with a lot of our clients about a lot of it is not necessarily time management either.

00;36;34;19 - 00;36;56;29
 
It's about attention and focus management and what you want to do. And so people just want they they want to just add more and really that the limiting factor to their their long term, especially their long term performance, not just performance in general, but like we very much about sustainable performance, right? Like we want you to have a long career in the NFL, in the MLB.

00;36;57;04 - 00;37;12;10
 
We want you to come home from all the missions. We want you to be able to you know, continue to achieve what you want to in the workplace, where whoever we're working with, it's all about sustainable performance. And yeah, in the short term, doing more can give you more. You get you get more ROI, right? It's a media.

00;37;12;10 - 00;37;34;18
 
It's also like the same thing of like, oh, why people more people will exercise till the cows come home and CrossFit are the day away and all that kind of stuff. But it's like really the limiting performance to what you want out of your fitness right now is just nutrition. And that requires restraint and that concept of restraint is, I think, where people really, really struggle.

00;37;34;18 - 00;37;58;20
 
And so, you know, it could be they've been brought up with our culturally or from family, from childhood. A lot of the stuff that we work with is, is, is your stems from that. But, you know, for whatever reason, it's like I've got to hustle culture, right? That's also like media. It's like hustle culture, hustle culture. And and so it's slowly starting to kind of shift back a little bit.

00;37;58;27 - 00;38;31;27
 
So we're fighting against those expectations. But I think it's that element of restraint that people are really challenged with. It takes it sounds weird, but it takes more willpower for a lot of folks, especially people who are achievement oriented. Like you don't get anything back right away from sitting along with your thoughts for 5 minutes, just like you don't really get anything back from eating one vegetable bowl like you had a bunch of vegetables over time and suddenly, wow, there's a lot of these wonderful benefits, body composition, blood pressure, you name it.

00;38;31;27 - 00;39;02;04
 
Right. So, yeah, it's it's this we deal with that concept of restraint and helping people to understand the value that like doing less now over the long term is going to pay dividends because you're not going to be burnt out and tired all the time. From Go, go, go. And because you're going to be more present in the time that you do go and do things, you are more efficient at it because hey, you're suddenly more understanding of how you operate internally.

00;39;02;09 - 00;39;06;03
 
And so you can navigate a lot more different scenarios of that makes sense.

00;39;06;11 - 00;39;45;08
 
It does 100%. I'm recalling what and I probably everybody that we talked to, whether it was John or Jan or Anthony I'm Stefan and now you it's implying we'll just call it as a break taking a nap. I mean, been talking to John so you're saying is taking a ten minute nap is going to be beneficial because you're going to reset and the optimization of time is instead of staying awake for 24 hours because you believe it's going to give you an opportunity spend more time doing more but you're going to be slower at it less efficient and probably risk injury in some capacity whereas if you took you know in this case context the ten minute

00;39;45;08 - 00;40;06;27
 
break or nap, you can refocus your body can kind of reset, recalibrate. This is kind of the same thing it sounds like is what you're doing is the same level of decision making that goes into deciding to do something. The restraint component is to say the temptation to feel like you got to do more is the same thing.

00;40;06;27 - 00;40;10;27
 
Is the temptation is to not take a break. Would you say.

00;40;11;13 - 00;40;14;08
 
On vacation, spot on, spot on.

00;40;14;23 - 00;40;35;21
 
The view out there, they're saying that your work life balance is an element of understanding this and that it's tough for whatever it starts with you. It sounds like this is what directing is internalizing, which is the friction part reflection. It's your self. If you understand how you can self-regulate you're saying the biology, I guess, is probably the best way to say it.

00;40;35;21 - 00;40;46;21
 
Through these practices, these techniques, you're going to see the benefit that can be comparable to allow you to make decisions differently to know what sustainable even means, because you'll feel it over time.

00;40;47;18 - 00;41;08;08
 
Yeah. And this this is where for me, it's been really rewarding to dove into a lot of the stuff and putting it into practice for myself because this isn't just for sports, you know, you see the application there, right, of understanding your own abilities and, and having that ability to regulate and calm yourself down in stressful situations, you know, fourth quarter scenarios, that kind of thing.

00;41;08;08 - 00;41;29;15
 
Right? You're going to have an edge over your your competitor right? In the workplace, you know, the ability to kind of have that that ability to stay calm in stressful situations, to be more creative when it's, you know, when the necessity arises to be able to problem solve because you've created that space for yourself to be able to do that.

00;41;30;09 - 00;41;48;24
 
It's going to be critical and certainly just to be a better partner. Right? Oh, I I'm in an argument with my partner. Right. It's it's it's you know, I think what a lot of folks will say is you're never going to find that. You're not going to argue with just the ability to to come to a common understanding and commitment.

00;41;49;07 - 00;42;10;00
 
It's not snapping and saying something that you regret later. Right. Because you said, oh, I'm I recognize this internal state. I understand what I need. I can call myself down and I can then respond, not react. And so, you know, it's it's the ability to bring that to whatever scenario. And yeah, it's it's less about going and finding.

00;42;10;06 - 00;42;26;08
 
I mean, yes, they're breathing protocols. But you said like just breathing rhythmically is going to give you a benefit, right? You don't need to even have a perfect protocol for you. And just creating a space for yourself is is going to be really just so powerful. So.

00;42;26;20 - 00;42;37;06
 
Yeah. Yep. Okay. Well, we scratched the surface, clearly, but anything else to touch on before we close?

00;42;37;24 - 00;43;16;05
 
Now, I just I hope that people take some space after listeners for themselves and just see what happens. Be curious about what's going on in inside, and that's just going to help you in so many ways. You know, it's, it's and can be really rewarding because you're just being more present with yourself, with those around you and then, you know, finding those strategies that work for you once you understand where you need find those strategies and you're going to find that, hey, I'm, I'm at my best a lot more frequently when I'm able to do that.

00;43;16;05 - 00;43;23;19
 
So yeah, go ahead and just take some time and try doing nothing for a minute. See what happens though.

00;43;24;03 - 00;43;26;03
 
You're doing nothing is doing something. Yeah.

00;43;26;13 - 00;43;26;22
 
Yeah.

00;43;27;01 - 00;44;02;00
 
I've learned that when it comes to decision making, when we don't take a position on certain things and then when we sit and lay on the grass and look at the sky and you actually imagine how nice it is to do that and you forget so. Mm. So thanks for that call and thanks for your time. I will, I will say this and take an opportunity to challenge anybody listening then, you know, 30 days try for 30 days, you know, a minute, 5 minutes a day for 30 days journal it just, you know, jot down how you felt before you did it and then when you made the decision maybe jot down why you made the decision

00;44;02;00 - 00;44;24;18
 
to do it. Try it 5 minutes breathwork. If you're not completely sure what that means, you know, find out from EXO's, go on site, find out what's available, maybe Google some things do do whatever it takes unless you have a resource immediately available where you can ask that person Hey, how do I do this? Find out, do for 30 days and let us know what you get back, you know?

00;44;24;19 - 00;44;30;19
 
So Colin, if you're up for it, if, if anybody wants to reach out and connect with you, what's the best way?

00;44;31;18 - 00;44;52;08
 
Yeah, I'm not much of a social media warrior, so probably I'll throw my email out there. See Young at Axios dot com and I always love talking shop. I always love talking about how we can help you. And if you want to understand a little bit more about how to reflect and bring awareness and regulation, your space man all talk your ear.

00;44;52;15 - 00;44;52;25
 
So.

00;44;54;10 - 00;44;56;28
 
Got it. Appreciate your call and thanks for everything you're doing.

00;44;57;14 - 00;44;58;00
 
Yeah. Thanks, Chris.

00;44;58;17 - 00;45;00;08
 
All right, everybody, keep moving forward.

In this episode we’re talking emotional intelligence. Building up from previous episodes, we’re connecting a flow of developing our skills to be better contributors to common goals, team dynamics, and personal growth. EQ includes important abilities like recognizing what you observe, how you react, and how others perceive you. Want to improve? Are you interested in becoming a greater asset to those around you? Take a listen and we’ll support you in that effort!

 

We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve.

 

Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family.

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

Episode Transcript:

00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;29
You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the main podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS, chief information security officer within Oracle.

00;00;29;08 - 00;00;50;26
In this episode, we're talking emotional intelligence building up from previous episodes. We're connecting a flow of developing our skills to be better contributors to common goals, team dynamics and personal growth. IQ includes important abilities like recognize what you observe, how you react, and how others perceive you want to improve. Are you interested in becoming a greater asset to those around you?

00;00;51;09 - 00;01;05;27
Take a listen and we'll support you in that effort. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family.

00;01;06;00 - 00;01;15;19
David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn Good morning, David Cross. How are you?

00;01;16;03 - 00;01;23;17
You know, Chris, today I'm a little emotional, right? What's going on in the world, but we're going to take it to a new direction here, I think, with our topic today.

00;01;23;29 - 00;01;49;09
Got it. Ten today. We're talking about emotional intelligence, why it matters. Some of the key components to consider when you're thinking about how effective are you, what are you doing to prepare yourself to go out and influence others in a way that they can see what you're asking for, they can understand it. And then more importantly, something happens as a result of that.

00;01;49;09 - 00;01;50;05
There's action taken.

00;01;51;21 - 00;02;13;05
You know, Chris, you know, I think about this a little bit is, you know, IQ, right? Or the emotional quotient or emotional intelligence II. You know, it's one of those things that is I wish could be on every resume. You're looking at people, right? But like, how do you measure it? Right. How you quantify it, right? How do you you know, does someone have you know, emotional intelligence or IQ?

00;02;14;05 - 00;02;34;21
I think one of the challenges at the same time, if you think about our history and your experience, of hiring people, what's sometimes the one number one failure that you sometimes see when you hire someone, they look great, but then they have no IQ, right? It's a total disaster. So I think is maybe something we should talk about today.

00;02;35;16 - 00;02;58;15
I think you're right. And in a lot of those components, you know, that I mean, we can break it down. There's a lot of good references. I mean, let's let's out of the gate, let's talk about one of the main ones that everybody's already familiar with, Daniel Goleman, emotional intelligence There are other resources that are self-help, like books coming from a valid, credible resource like organizational psychologists and whatnot.

00;02;58;15 - 00;03;25;05
I mean, the list is deep and you can get into the details of it from philosophical approach to the psychological facts and science and experience you know, all of those things contributing. You know, you talked about some things that were specific examples that contribute to one's ability to know how to navigate the area to where you can understand what it takes to be effective.

00;03;25;13 - 00;03;50;28
Emotional intelligence includes probably starts with, I guess, safe to say, and we can talk about it self. Right. It's it's it's it's your perspective and others perspective is basically the breakdown of the views of who's considering judging, classifying, categorizing, assessing or what have you on whether or not you're doing the things that influence others in a way where there's an honest, true understanding of what's going on now.

00;03;50;28 - 00;04;02;27
True in the sense of perception. We talked about this before. Not everything is real. You know, it's just the way that we see it. And so we just have to do the best to try to acknowledge what it is, in fact, that we're seeing or hearing.

00;04;03;11 - 00;04;25;09
Well, I think that almost brings to my brings to mind a little bit, you know, perception right? It's like communication. Right. Is saying that like sometimes how do you perceive yourself, right. And out of others perceive you. Right. And it's like it's just like communication sometimes is your emotional intelligence. Is that well, are you reading people right in how they are reading you?

00;04;25;09 - 00;04;46;05
Right. And I think it's one of the most important things is your feedback, communication, you know, reaching out to mentors is that do you really have good IQ? Well, how do you know? Have you asked anyone have you talked to your mentor? Have you gotten for asked for feedback? And I think sometimes there could be a major delta in yourself.

00;04;47;12 - 00;05;13;18
Yeah, you're right. That because this I mean, this is a series of things that we've landed on almost accidentally. But then we realized you and I realize that there's a sequence of conversation topics that will have occurred in the previous episodes leading up to this one. Right. Relationships and trust, how you define everything that you just said comes from a place of acknowledging and accepting, right?

00;05;13;19 - 00;05;35;20
You've acknowledge that somebody either you trust yourself or you trust somebody else. You've acknowledged something that has allowed you to decide where you've chosen to accept what it is that is being said. Or given right. So I'm accepting that my self-talk has convinced me because it makes sense to me, which we can absolutely unpack. It makes sense to me.

00;05;35;20 - 00;06;03;16
And so I accept it. This is how I view this. And then what you mentioned is the external influence of somebody else coming to you and saying, Hey, you have really good emotional intelligence, you have a really good ability to understand the audience, the situation, the conversation that's occurring how did they come to be able to assess that to you as from their perception based off of the other things that are almost aligned to what you're doing for yourself?

00;06;03;16 - 00;06;35;15
Right. Because you like it and you're comfortable. You might now find you lean towards that because it is comfort. So you go with that. They might have a personal motive or a preference as to how they have come to that conclusion on where you fit within their assessment based off of their rationalization. So that's kind of the, the catch 22 is you have to understand yourself well enough to trust by acknowledging and accepting the opinion of yourself and others that either agree or don't agree, but you have to get to that part Absolutely.

00;06;36;05 - 00;07;01;06
You know, it's amazing that how two different people could say exactly the same thing in a different in different ways. And the results and the impact and the emotional and emotional impact is completely different. We can go back to our military days, right? We've all seen commanding officers that they give an order and they're so gruff and you feel like you're dirty or worthless, whatever.

00;07;01;25 - 00;07;29;07
And you also have another commanding officer that you can say the way they express it. Yep. Here's an order. It's tough work. But you it feels like they care about you. It feels that they understand the pain you're going to feel from that order and you accept it completely differently. And that's what leadership is all about, is understanding the state of who you're talking to, how you communicate and really evaluating what is the person's emotions, how will it affect their emotions.

00;07;29;20 - 00;07;40;26
And it's also so important that context and it's not just the military, it's the whole world. And there's amazing differences in leadership and impact. Just based just on that.

00;07;41;13 - 00;08;05;07
Yeah, you you unloaded on that one. So there's a couple of things here. So the expectations and expectation settings, it's it's a realization of a standard, right? Or a goal or classification. Somewhere along the line, you're determining that somebody has to be a certain way to be able to do this. Whatever this is, do this job, do this role, do this project.

00;08;05;19 - 00;08;25;24
We have to determine what skill sets are compatible with what the objectives are based off of whatever it is. And I'm using these words because personally we're not walking down the street saying these things, Hey, does this person align to my objective? When you're walking past somebody walking a dog now, you have a preference. That preference has evolved from something that you talked about, where empathy plays a big part in this.

00;08;25;24 - 00;08;49;16
Right? Being able to understand and relate to somebody through empathy is to make them feel as if you care, right? And that's I can kind of the main thing is, you know, emotional intelligence can come down to, you know, several components. But one of the key ones is how you make others feel is a big influence on whether or not you're going to continue to have that relationship in the way that you want it to be or expected to be or need it to be.

00;08;49;27 - 00;09;27;03
You also talked about something for the context. You mentioned context, and that I think comes through the experience, those with more experience. It is safe to assume that they have a higher level of emotional intelligence, and it's an assumption because of the experience. We go back to the first thing in expectation, I would say, and you and I have talked about it before in context, if you and I are going into a situation where there's we're surrounded by executives, there's an assumption that because of your experience, you probably have a better understanding of what the expectations would be in that setting.

00;09;27;18 - 00;09;48;22
Right before we even started recording, we talked about junior enlisted versus senior enlisted, and I'm paraphrasing, the expectations are different, the understanding of different because the level of the role is probably assuming that they don't have yet the experience to put things in context. Therefore, they can't have the same level of IQ because of the fact that they just don't know yet.

00;09;48;28 - 00;09;50;01
They haven't gone through it yet.

00;09;50;13 - 00;10;07;28
Yeah. Spin on Chris. You know, I think we have to keep reminding of ready to go back and listen to the podcast about communication. So when you bring up about context is sometimes ah, experience, I think it means a really good scenario is that sometimes you can walk into a scenario or a situation you don't have the experience.

00;10;08;09 - 00;10;33;06
So then well how do you act? Well, this comes back in communication, ask questions because if you don't have experience and you don't have a context, you can start asking questions that can help you to understand the landscape, to understand what's going on, so that you can have the right perspective in context, in emotional intelligence to act, respond you know, engage the right way versus blindly guessing.

00;10;33;06 - 00;10;40;06
Right. You know, your favorite Seinfeld episode, never assume. Right anything, right? Because you're going to get burnt.

00;10;41;01 - 00;11;06;26
Right. Yeah. As to curiosity, I think as time will go on, you become more intimate with instinct or that gut, that gut feel. Right. The instinctive approach is if something just doesn't feel right, you know the scenario, you're going down the street walking down the street, walk into a conversation. It just feels weird. There's something off that I think also and I'm sure I read it somewhere.

00;11;06;26 - 00;11;33;16
So it's just me saying I know it's I think I've it's been stated before where that is associated. And part of this is, you know, there's these certain instincts that one has that develops over time. With the experience that evolves into what we can consider at a high level to be part of emotional intelligence. You have awareness, self-awareness, situational awareness, so like you said, walking into a conversation or something and you're curious if that is your priority is to understand.

00;11;33;16 - 00;11;57;06
Probably humility plays a big part in that you're humble enough to be curious regardless of how you feel, whether or not you're going to get looked at for asking the dumb question, things like that, where there really isn't one. If you don't know, setting matters time in a place, don't forget that. But that's part of the emotion intelligence if you're curious and and that's how you go into a situation because you're sincerely trying to accomplish something collectively.

00;11;57;06 - 00;12;22;27
We collectively, meaning the same people in the room or the people in the room, are trying to achieve the same thing. Similar things. Sincerity will drive you towards not wanting to ask questions, to learn to contribute, knowing when to ask questions, how to quite the right question to ask. We've talked about these things also. I think it's just an understanding of being able to develop that over time, gives you gives you the opportunity to know you're on the right path.

00;12;23;20 - 00;12;44;00
You know, Chris, the ah, you know, it's kind of thinking on this overall topic and maybe it could be, you know, on a landmine that someone could step into is like is the world global? Now we work for a global company you know, there are people from many different different countries and backgrounds and things like that. Different languages, right?

00;12;44;08 - 00;13;06;13
Is English the native language for everyone in the world? No. Right. And do we all have the same culture and background and gestures? No. Right. And I think this is very, very important sometimes when we work in diverse teams, right. We're not just about out of geographic of ethnicity and backgrounds. Other things is we have to be very aware of that.

00;13;06;18 - 00;13;33;04
Is that how someone's language could it we we could read it incorrectly or treat it incorrectly or improperly. And I think so very different. I won't use any of the typical stereotypical biased examples here, but is that some people could read and perceive right are a statement very differently based on language alone. And I think that's very, very important to be aware of in this overall topic.

00;13;33;24 - 00;14;08;22
100% a great great poll. It's global, right? And if we go into outdated characteristics or an understanding of where we play a part in a global role and we haven't yet been exposed to what that actually means and that that's I'm not I'm not going to begin to try to unpack that one. It's hard because there's a lot of things that you have to do and we talked about this in different ways over the last many episodes is effort the amount of effort is dependent upon your interest.

00;14;09;02 - 00;14;42;20
If you prioritize things, then the effort doesn't necessarily equate to hard or easy. You just understand it's necessary in order to achieve what you want to achieve. That's part of the issue is how much effort is it going to take to understand all of the things that are going to contribute to the success of myself and others. That in itself is probably a solid approach to understand how you can without even trying become better at acknowledging your emotional intelligence, understanding it well enough to say, here are the requirements and here's what I need to do, and then you map it out.

00;14;43;10 - 00;14;55;15
Absolutely. So we're coming back to, you know, hiring people. You know, Chris, you know, you're involved with recruiting and hiring people, you know, which is better high IQ or high IQ.

00;14;57;19 - 00;14;59;28
Yeah, I figured you were going to give me up on that one.

00;15;01;12 - 00;15;11;24
We have to have a fun podcast, right? Chris, do you want us to be boring and everyone? That's what I is it is supposed to be. I was proud to have a podcast here. People listen to Fall Asleep. Not every night, you know?

00;15;12;23 - 00;15;39;11
Yep. So I'm going to give the classic answer that I found myself acknowledging in most intelligence. And I'm saying, well, it's appropriate. It depends. Right. I would like to say that because the way that I look at it is this is the actions where there is nothing that we're doing right now that is our own right. And what I mean by that is we're reacting to somebody else's action.

00;15;40;06 - 00;16;17;16
You don't know if it's this conversation or something. A month ago. A year ago. It doesn't matter. We're reacting. I feel in that way. So it goes back to how you how you prepare in hiring, when you're looking for somebody to fill a role how you define the role requirements by restricting the explanation into a job description. Well, if you're not an excellent writer or translator of thought into words and writing it effectively to where people can now read that without emotion, they just see it for what it is and everybody walks away with the same understanding of what the requirements are.

00;16;18;13 - 00;16;33;07
You should understand that that's part of the problem if you're going to answer that question, because in that you still have to define what it is that you're looking for. And then you have to go through the verbal approach. And so now you have let's say you and I say I'm interviewing with you. I have to do everything that we just talked about.

00;16;33;07 - 00;16;49;12
I have to make assumptions on who I'm speaking with. To demonstrate something that's going to fit into your perception of what you're looking for. I don't know what that is. I just know that I read a job description. There's been somebody that talked to me about the role and somewhat of the culture that I'm the role sits in.

00;16;49;23 - 00;17;01;10
And now I have to make assessments on how do I make sure that I'm being my organic self to you. Without eliminating me from a possibility of taking the job because it's a it's a delicate dance.

00;17;02;00 - 00;17;16;28
You know, Chris, I think that's a great example, you know, and I think as both for hiring managers as well as candidates. Right. Is is hiring manager. You really want you should lay out saying, hey, this is the state of the organization. Right? It could be a very diverse organization. Or it could actually be maybe not so. Right.

00;17;16;28 - 00;17;41;22
And really so that is very clear what the expectations are. What are the needs? Right. So people say, well, I fit into that or not. Right. Likewise, I think as a candidate, you should always look and understand, right? You know, where the organization is. And so that you say, will you be a good match for that or are you going to step into something that it's not going to be where you are from an ego perspective, maybe this will not be a good match or maybe could be dangerous.

00;17;41;27 - 00;17;44;25
And I think we should be open and honest and both directions on this.

00;17;46;14 - 00;18;12;02
And in that, you defined what you can consider to be in a higher ratios of animal, emotional, intelligent individual. Right. You're recognizing these variables based off of your experience. Now, you've you've been in a career for, you know, decades to where you can understand these things. You've accumulated a lot of this information to where it allows you to leverage that and then put it to good use.

00;18;12;05 - 00;18;33;19
Maybe this is the best way to say it. And that's a fair that's a fair way to do it. Unfortunately, that's not across the board from everywhere that we've experienced. I'm sure all of us can name at least one scenario where it wasn't like that. It wasn't transparent. It wasn't a place to where you feel you can be brutally honest with each other and know that it's the position that you're discussing through dialog to get to the end state of knowing each other better.

00;18;34;23 - 00;19;07;11
I think I think you're right. I think in that case, I'll tell you this, if I had to pick one because you asked the question, I would say IQ to me is more important than IQ. And I'm not completely aware of the depths of what both of those mean independently. Of each other. I can just say from my understanding, I would choose IQ over IQ just for the basic nature of being able to relate higher probability of relating to others more often because it's all about people connecting with people.

00;19;07;11 - 00;19;10;28
And you just gave a scenario where your focus was connecting.

00;19;11;19 - 00;19;34;23
You know, I think that I think some jobs will be different, but certainly I think we're we're, you know, maybe used to or very familiar for the past in a long time here, I could say that we're working in teams and organizations in so that having low IQ is dangerous territory. Right. And people that could be really caustic and dangerous and create a bad environment.

00;19;35;03 - 00;19;53;06
But we'll be honest, right? We're not we're not our audience here. The veteran community is not just working in high tech not just working large companies and things like that. Yes. Sometimes there will be some differences so someone can be an individual right and not have to deal with others. Maybe that's okay. I'm not saying have a no IQ is a good thing anybody.

00;19;53;06 - 00;20;11;22
But I think it's like you really need to again, the context of the position and expectations. But certainly I think of that in I'd say almost all companies that having low IQ as a people manager is almost a guaranteed the plane is going to crash yeah.

00;20;11;22 - 00;20;35;24
It's there's probably a higher point of failure in that, you know, because it does I mean, people move things I mean, I'm declaring it as if it's my we know this. We don't we can't do it alone. You know, we need people around us. There's a supporting cast of crew in everything that we're doing, whether you acknowledge it or recognize it's matters less.

00;20;35;24 - 00;21;00;24
But everybody's giving us support in some capacity like we talked about. It's indirect. It could be appearing the independent of each other, but it's not everything that we accumulate is is stored information and recalled at some point, I believe so you know I think the kind of the the summary at this point is, you know, it is maybe the question for you.

00;21;01;12 - 00;21;10;07
We skimmed over it. We talked about it. But you asked me a question. I asked you a question. Should I care more about what others think or should I care more about what I think?

00;21;11;13 - 00;21;19;02
Wow. At first I was I said, oh, this is an easy answer. Then you really stop me there for a second. Right?

00;21;22;09 - 00;21;49;00
You know, why am I hesitating on this one? Certainly at first I was going to say it is it's what everyone else thinks of course. Right. But I think maybe that's you're trying to be clever here, Chris, and give me the trick question. But like what everyone thinks may not be what I really think I am. Right. And that's the maybe that's a problem in itself, right, is that I think I'm a caring, loving person.

00;21;49;01 - 00;22;05;02
But everyone thinks I'm an evil tyrant or an micromanager. Right. And I think the real answer is you have to look at both and saying, do they match? If they don't match, then you say there's a problem that you need to explore and figure out.

00;22;07;21 - 00;22;32;16
Fair, very neutral answer, but I'll take it because it's not wrong. You're right. Situational. You know, if if we if we subscribe to the theory that working together in teams, direct or indirect you know, you have to influence others. And so you have to consider what they're feeling and what they're thinking about, whether or not you're in the capacity that is necessary for everybody.

00;22;32;16 - 00;22;49;04
To feel confident in moving forward. So strength finders, I'll introduce this real quick. We've talked about it before, a scientific approach. If you can go Google it, you know, look it up. I'm sure many are familiar. If not, though, check it out. It's a fun thing to be able to assess where you're in. There's plenty of these tools out there.

00;22;49;04 - 00;23;13;11
But, you know, the defines there's four things that a leader, a follower wants from a leader, trust, compassion, stability and hope. Well, if what you had said is any indication of how any of those four can be impacted, if I don't have that in the leader, I don't have trust I don't have or the leader doesn't have the trust doesn't have the compassion, which we talked about.

00;23;13;11 - 00;23;32;26
You kind of mentioned earlier about how you make me feel. And as a follower, leader doesn't provide the opportunity for me to trust that you have there's a stable environment and then give me hope. And for those of us have jokes, hope is not a course of action, but it does play a part in whether or not you can survive in certain scenarios.

00;23;33;16 - 00;23;55;23
If we don't have any of those for it could break. So I think you're right. It's just a matter of understanding you take into consideration whether people think what or what other people think. But there is a there is a factor that weighs into how you're because it still comes back to you on how you're receiving information, whether or not yourself talking you're true to yourself.

00;23;57;07 - 00;24;01;05
It still has to transmit what other people think and you still have to process it.

00;24;02;10 - 00;24;39;10
You know, the one thing that I still think about in this area is in the question you asked is, is there still an element on what you want your your IQ to be versus your perceived IQ? Right. You know, and and that's really important. I think sometimes that of what you think saying, hey, I'm just being caring and loving and compassionate and, you know, green on the you know, the chart signal that's not everyone sees you as red, blue right.

00;24;41;06 - 00;24;54;13
And isn't that not an important element that everyone should go through on a regular basis? Right. Is just like technical skills. Right. You should have my keeping up to up to speed with my technical skills, but I may keep you up to speed with my IQ.

00;24;55;07 - 00;25;35;17
Yeah, it's a tool I you're that's great talking about that. It abs it is absolute an absolute tool that's necessary to be successful. Now, you can call it different things, you know, don't even call it emotional intelligence. Call it anything else. Like, are you able to understand things that are occurring around you in a way that you can have the same or common language used not only with yourself but with others to be able to address it in a way that you can still take your position because your skill development also is now relative interpretation of the scenario situation, words, actions, observations, all those things.

00;25;35;17 - 00;26;00;12
Right. You have to understand it and know that it's evolving. Everything is development, right? Every every scenario, even if it's it feels repetitious, it's giving you an idea of like oh, that, that equates to a trend as we defined it. What's happening similar or the same as before. And it's common. It's a trend if you're recognizing things to be a trend and you're resisting that influence.

00;26;00;12 - 00;26;20;29
But things are now changing. Now we talk about how you're not being relevant because you're refusing to accept the ever changing environment which now is limiting your ability to contribute effectively. Therefore, what you're probably going to experience is getting pushed out of the circle of that action. Right. You now you're no longer going to be wanted on the team.

00;26;20;29 - 00;26;36;10
Now you're no longer to be valued member. Now you're not contributing in a way that's relevant to the expectations and the goals set forth because you're not accepting the evolution. Now, it's not to say that you have to what it has to what I think is it means that you have to be able to adapt to it and grow from it.

00;26;36;21 - 00;26;53;25
Or make a decision. You either refuse to accept it or you accept it, but acknowledging that for yourself is you're either in it or you're not, and you have to decide. But I think that's the evolution of what you just mentioned, is you still have to pay attention to those things and then decide because you don't want to lose yourself.

00;26;54;14 - 00;27;03;13
That's what we talk about. Bring in your organic self to to the workplace or to the scenario, to the family, to whatever you have. You have to be able to adapt.

00;27;04;05 - 00;27;19;24
So, Chris, I guess this then leads to the one big question I think for the whole podcast here. And you know, I know you're an avid book reader and you know, you read way more than I do. But the real question is how can you improve your emotional intelligence or IQ? What's what do you recommend?

00;27;21;11 - 00;27;30;25
Hmm. Simple terms. Pay attention. That's it. And Dad jokes, I'll give you a dollar to pay attention. How's that for.

00;27;30;27 - 00;27;36;28
You saying I give bad jokes here, Chris? No, no, not at all. Great. I got a guy got a good read on that one. Okay.

00;27;38;06 - 00;27;54;25
Yep. It's paying attention. I mean, you and I, I mean, we I walk away from each conversation. It simply is. You know, I'm not saying that we're going into this conversation to deliver something, and that's it. That's all. It's value. No, the value is that you and I are going to talk and sincerely exchange information in a way where I walk.

00;27;55;01 - 00;28;22;25
I walk away knowing something, learning something, you know, so paying attention to that. Every opportunity that you're presented with by being present, right? If you're paying attention than your present, it's an assumption that will help you figure out how you need to adopt a different approach in order to address the things that you feel are challenging because now you're now you're going down the path of discovery.

00;28;22;26 - 00;28;36;12
When you talked about it early, you know, asking not asking questions doesn't mean necessarily to ask questions than others as much as it also means ask questions to yourself. Are you recognizing what's happening and are you talking it through to be able to know what needs to happen next?

00;28;36;27 - 00;28;50;00
Yeah. So, Chris, you know, what, Brooke, I know you think you've mentioned one earlier. What book would you recommend to people? Right, Alex? I know people love books. And sometimes resources are when you recommend to people that you've read yourself.

00;28;50;28 - 00;29;12;02
Yeah, it's my my default so early, early in what I feel is probably the best way to describe it. My transformation right is when I've hit a life stage in a career stage, too, where I feel like I felt like I needed to do something different, more what have you. I stumbled across a popular one, the emotional intelligence we talked about.

00;29;12;02 - 00;29;33;03
Daniel Goleman. I'm a huge fan of the way that not only the book explains things in the way that he's speaking to these dynamics in the book. It's also, to me, the catalyst of other other areas of skillset development that you need to focus on, right? Is introducing things. And if I were to just do it, I'm going to do this right now.

00;29;33;03 - 00;29;50;29
I'm just going to flip through the book and land on a page. And then it's the chapter is managing with Hart. So, you know, we, we just and that was random. David saw me do it, not that I need to prove to anybody out there listening, but I've randomly flipped landed on that managing with heart talk about and.

00;29;51;01 - 00;29;58;06
Everybody I saw audio I saw on. So we don't have to get into the debate whether this is a fake podcast or not. A fake.

00;29;58;10 - 00;30;10;05
Yeah, this isn't real. This is actually it's not an actual conversation's all I do. You get it. The emotional intelligence, artificial intelligence. Do you see that? That's funny. All right. Coming back in the.

00;30;10;05 - 00;30;10;25
Movie, Chris.

00;30;11;18 - 00;30;37;00
Let's keep it moving. All right. With heart sincerity. You ever you ever. And I think we've talked about the scenario before. If you ever walk into a situation, I don't care if it's a perceived stereotypical way, you know, going to use car dealer or something to that effect where somebody walks up, there's an intent, right? Somebody approaches you with a motive, you can feel it and the words that come next are scripted, not natural.

00;30;37;00 - 00;30;54;07
It just doesn't feel sincere. Right. Well, if you look at that in in its form, you can recognize that person has a job to do and they're trying to execute it based off of what has been deemed to be the appropriate process by the organization that that person's with. But you know, they're still trying to put food on the table.

00;30;54;21 - 00;31;15;20
So there's there's a sincerity in there that they're trying to manage the situation or the people with the sincerity, but having to go through some of these things that may appear to us to be crafted. Well, yeah, everything we do is almost like that. So if you can if you can develop your emotional intelligence in a way through in this case, a book that I'm suggesting I'm speaking of, it doesn't matter.

00;31;15;20 - 00;31;53;07
Pick one just to understand that everything is an introduction to something else. And so if you just follow the path of what that is, you can learn more not only about yourself, but how others are also engaging with you. And then now you can strive for perfecting your craft of human connection to where you can either mitigate that feeling by having it just calling it outright, saying for what it is, or play along you know, at the end of the day, we're all trying to achieve something, but we have to learn better on how we can connect with others to be able to achieve the same thing without having to think about whether or not it's

00;31;53;07 - 00;31;53;17
fake.

00;31;54;04 - 00;32;16;29
Yeah, well put Chris in a certainly I know that if this was a video I was watching right but they're not very good, right? Because it clearly when you see the videos, their beards are always crafted, things like that. And the hats always perfectly on. Right. So that not in this episode. So, you know, so unless they're fooling me, I don't know, they're pretty good.

00;32;18;22 - 00;32;41;18
But different topic on the book. One is that it's not about IQ, but I just kind of came across a recent book called Burn Out for Dummies. And I said, why is this important? How does this apply to said? Well, eliminate is, I think, is that when many people get burned out, their IQ II goes down enormously and it kind it becomes a fire, right?

00;32;41;27 - 00;33;02;25
Someone gets burned out or under stress and things like that. Then they start losing the kind of view of what's going on around them, how they treat people those type of things. And sometimes I think that I think of why this is a great book recommendation. Also, like to makers like people need to detect when they are burning out right because that affects their emotional intelligence and IQ enormously.

00;33;03;15 - 00;33;25;01
There you go. Detect. That's the word of the day. I'm going to I'm going to use it today. More than once. Yeah. You have to be able to understand it, to detect it. The you know, this is where it can become somewhat of a challenge because we can do it in rabbit hole. But, you know, I feel that we all have instinctive ideas.

00;33;25;01 - 00;33;47;28
They're shaped around a feeling right where it comes from. I can't explain and I know somebody can. And we can probably get 50 people in a room and 51 explanations, but you get this feeling. It comes from somewhere and then that that is, I think, the kind of the key catalyst for how you're going to be able to detect not only is it the opportunity, but be able to understand how you're affected by something.

00;33;48;15 - 00;34;21;29
We had we had brought neurologist on, on, on the show in its early stages before this podcast evolved. It was a different one, but talk about stress and his expertize in that area of Expertize was how to manage stress. And part of that talk included, you know, identifying the physiological effects and be able to recognize it early. Now, he was focused on certain part of the special operations community where your physiological response to stress was an important indicator whether or not you can be able to execute in your role.

00;34;22;07 - 00;34;40;15
Right. In I'm being ambiguous, but for those that know, they know the idea, though, is if you understand how your body is morphing or changing based off of how it's responding to a situation, then you have to be able to optimize that and control it and you learn how to do that and there's techniques to do that. So I think you're right.

00;34;41;19 - 00;35;05;12
You know, there isn't a level that you should consider. I think it's a fact that you should consider. You don't you don't have to get to a certain point to understand that detecting that early is absolutely critical to your success, because how we we dismiss it by things by saying like, oh, David's hangry, you know, his blood sugar this and it's affecting his attitude in his moonlight.

00;35;05;12 - 00;35;25;20
Stuff. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. But if somebody's saying it, that means it's already been presented. And now think about the effect some people can write it off as a joke, but now how are you going into a decision where you actually carry that in there? And are you making the right decision based off of the baseline that you should have for that type of decision?

00;35;27;03 - 00;35;43;16
Absolutely. You know, and I think it was like a military versus less formal involvement, like the the Navy's, you know, personal reliability program. We could think about aviation we could think about doctors. Is the under stress. Right? We want people to make the right decisions, right? Be very clinical, are focused. Right. And this is for all types of jobs.

00;35;43;16 - 00;36;03;15
And I think this is where emotional intelligence comes into play and very, very important. But how we can detect it, we can be aware of it and we can actually take actions. And then coming back to an element of I think, you know, I've talked about many times is that, you know, sometimes the workday can get very stressful and we can then say there's so much work, whatever it's like, that's the time you take a break.

00;36;03;20 - 00;36;15;23
You know, I go for a run, I go for a five K run, and I say I take that time at 30 minutes out. Right. And then de-stress. So then I can come back to work and make the right decisions because I remove that stress.

00;36;16;13 - 00;36;37;26
Yeah, that's. There you go. I'm going to throw it out there. Maybe, maybe we got a couple of things going on here is maybe. Maybe we bring that guest back on or bring bring somebody on or talk about stress and recognize and detect and respond. But the other part of what you just said is another element of me, because we did talk about it in some capacity.

00;36;38;07 - 00;37;04;24
I think we sprinkle it in in past episodes, but making the right decision is probably an element that we should consider talking about because then we can take all of these previous podcasts on nutrition and sleep and rest and body functions and climate work climate and all of the environmental contributors to how it affects our ability to deliver in the role that we're expected, delivering it's a good one.

00;37;05;18 - 00;37;26;07
Well, I think there's been a great episode, I think, and I think it's really excited that of of how we can continue to hear from our community, how we can kind of help everyone. And I want to call out that, hey, we're always looking for feedback, right? You know, certainly as this goes live, you know, ping us on Twitter or X or they call it now, find us on LinkedIn.

00;37;26;29 - 00;37;36;08
So my I'm on Twitter, our X, I'm on Mr. DB Cross, reach out to us. We'd love to know what you think. We'd love to know of what you'd like to hear. And we're here to help the community and that's how we grow.

00;37;37;08 - 00;38;00;18
That's it. That feedback next episode recommendations, anything we haven't gotten feedback lately, so maybe this will kick up some dust in and get us to consider what we can do more of or modify. But the it's a great up. So David, I think I think, you know, again, we started to to pull the layers back a little bit on some of the stuff.

00;38;00;18 - 00;38;14;24
And I think it can warrant maybe getting a little deeper in the future episode. So I think that's probably what we'll maybe tee up for the next season is to get into different layers because we're not so well.

00;38;14;24 - 00;38;34;18
I hope the this season that we finished the season will be, you know, good for not just us but also for the Seahawks this this year, you know, but it's kind of tough going every game. We kind of they just like every episode of their podcast here, it's like we're going to play one by one. But we're we're really going to kind of hit that end goal of reaching the Super Bowl.

00;38;34;18 - 00;38;39;12
So we want to be number one on the veteran podcast in the world. So let's keep trying for it.

00;38;39;27 - 00;38;43;05
We'll keep trying All righty. One keep moving forward.

How do we know what questions to ask? What happens when you feel like asking but don’t? There is a lot going on in today’s world where we either have too much information or the feeling of not enough time…sometimes both! Where do we begin to understand how we fit into a situation and take away more than what we started with? Asking the right question includes a lot of understanding about yourself, your needs, needs of others, and many more considerations and it’s best to bet on yourself to know how to ask the right question, at the right time. This episode touches on several places to start. Take a listen and continue your discovery journey!

 

We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve.

 

Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family.

 

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Episode Transcription:

 

00;00;08;00 - 00;00;27;27
You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS Chief Information Security Officer within Oracle.

00;00;28;03 - 00;00;42;04
How do we know what questions to ask? What happens when you feel like asking but don't? There's a lot going on in today's world where we either have too much information or the feeling of not enough time. Sometimes both. Where do we begin to understand how we fit into a situation and take away more than what we start with?

00;00;42;08 - 00;01;00;09
Asking the right question includes a lot of understanding about yourself. Your needs, the needs of others, and many more considerations. And it's best to bet on yourself to know how to ask the right question at the right time. This episode touches on several places to start, so take a listen and continue your discovery journey. We have all we need to become the person we want to be.

00;01;00;10 - 00;01;19;24
So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn Good morning, David. How's it going?

00;01;20;17 - 00;01;32;22
Great, Chris. You know, I'm always looking forward kicking off Monday morning when we record these. You know, after the weekends, this is a top priority. That's why it's, you know, exciting to be part of this podcast community.

00;01;33;10 - 00;02;16;27
Yeah, no, you're right. It is You know, some some would say that Mondays is probably the most active depending on how you set up your time. But, you know, for everybody out there, we usually kick this off when David and I are speaking early in the week, early in the morning, fresh mindset, clear thinking, and hopefully it just paves the way for the solid 40 something minutes to talk about some things that are either introducing what we had talked about before, but not in too much depth or, you know, we've now just had something transition from something we had mentioned before and you know, we think it's a good idea to dove into some of that

00;02;16;27 - 00;02;49;22
So in the past, we've talked about visibility, you know, making yourself visible to others based off of your performance in your activities. Or others can see it good, bad or indifferent. It all culminates into building and establishing credibility in the things that you're responsible for. But extend your opportunity to network. Of course, now that more people can see what value you provide, you're able to you know, provide the details in a way that they can make it relevant to the needs for whatever they're trying to achieve.

00;02;50;18 - 00;03;20;23
And then we talked about communication, and there's levels to that right? There's the verbal, non-verbal, but being effective and how you communicate these things as as you know, when we're writing certain things down, you know, a misplaced word and context of a structured, you know, you can have a definite different meaning than what was intended. And so we want to make sure that we're able to articulate things in a way that's making it relevant to the perception or the potential perception that one might take on where you stand within their circle.

00;03;20;29 - 00;03;24;23
And so today, we'll talk about asking the right questions.

00;03;25;08 - 00;03;46;22
That's right, Chris. And certainly we're going to ask lots of questions here and kind of push the envelope, you know, and some people may asking, why in the world do we try to target, you know, 45 minutes or so for this podcast, right. Well, the answer is everybody, let's be open, honest, is that because we're all runners, right? And we want to listen to a podcast that takes about 45 minutes because that's how fast we all run our ten ks, isn't it?

00;03;47;21 - 00;03;48;00
Yes.

00;03;49;06 - 00;03;55;24
Yes, yes. I will say until you actually challenge me to where I have to demonstrate whether or not going to do it that way.

00;03;56;06 - 00;04;01;13
Yeah, we're going to roll, Chris, and so we're going to push this year. Let's see if we can do a 25 minute ten K sound good.

00;04;02;02 - 00;04;28;24
Let's do it. I might be limping along there for the last part of it, but that's all right. Don't quit. Yeah. So asking the right questions, I think you would. Situational awareness. You're kind of, you're, you're not kind of you're sitting around in, in a moment and observing and then you're trying to find probably the spots that you can pick to either add value or, you know, obtain more information through some method.

00;04;28;24 - 00;04;41;19
Right. And so asking questions, of course, is is one of the ways to do that. Of course, if you sit and listen more, you probably, you know, learn more than you anticipated. But, you know, finding the right time to ask a question, I think David is probably where we should start. Right?

00;04;42;01 - 00;05;02;02
I absolutely you know, and I think it's like everything that I think is we should always be thinking about like, you know, the book Atomic Habits, right? You actually want to build a habit of always asking questions, you know, is like every day, every hour, maybe not every day, every week. You know, with things like with your managers, your peers, your organization.

00;05;02;02 - 00;05;22;16
Right. You should be thinking about. All right. Have I ask any questions today? And it's not about, you know, to play a game. It's more of that. Hey, am I delivering the right results today? Right. Am I meeting expectations today? Is my focus on the right priorities today? Right. It sounds simple in a sound sometimes not necessary, but it's it's a great mindset.

00;05;22;16 - 00;05;24;20
And so I got to build that habit with everybody.

00;05;25;04 - 00;05;49;24
You know, and this wasn't planned. But you'd mentioned the book and what's funny is this last weekend, I had I had gone away for a couple of days off grid disconnected. No, no cell reception. So it was forced. But also a convenient way to not be tempted because you just even if you wanted to connect, you couldn't. There was a book who's in a cabin there was that book.

00;05;49;26 - 00;06;07;17
It was one of the three books in the house, in the cabin. That was one that was sitting on there. And I didn't pick it up, but my eyes gravitated towards it. And you just mentioned it. So let's let's kick this around a little bit, you know, because you mentioned about asking asking questions at certain times and, you know, the philosophical approach.

00;06;07;17 - 00;06;29;15
And am I doing enough for my doing the right things and things like that? Well, maybe we kick this thing off and say, well, how do you get to that part? Right. And I believe that if you're immersed into a situation where there's intensity, pressure, stress, maybe you're not thinking as clearly as you as you could or should unless you've conditioned yourself to where you introduced it.

00;06;29;15 - 00;06;47;07
And we've talked about it before. You've conditioned yourself to have the right mindset. Right, and you become resilient in that way to know that in in in sometimes high pressure situations, I'm able to think about what's necessary for for me to be valuable in that moment.

00;06;49;10 - 00;07;13;10
That weekend, this last weekend was an opportunity for me to be able to clear, clear the room, if you will, of congestion. Right. Or you know, just high volume or high amount of activity that had me, you know, probably not prioritizing things the right way or following a path that I could make sense of the right questions to be asking at this point, given the situation I'm in.

00;07;14;09 - 00;07;23;19
What are your thoughts on how do you get to the part of understanding whether or not you need to do something different related to questions?

00;07;24;20 - 00;07;49;08
Well, let's go back again to the atomic habits like I could I'll say something that, okay, if you have a family, right, I see a significant other. You know, sometimes you'd ask the question to your significant other, like, am I doing the right things for our our marriage right now? Yes. Your kids and my I am I being a good dad or mom, you know, to the two to you right now, you guys asked your mentors or friends.

00;07;49;08 - 00;08;05;17
It's like, you know, how am I doing right now? What's your perception in sounds like, why in the world would you ask these questions? But if you take a step back right now, you know, I love to hear what your feedback process is like. Would you not want to know exactly what they're thinking when you ask your kids?

00;08;05;17 - 00;08;24;26
Like my being a good dad, your your significant other is like my being a good partner right now or your friends, like, what's your perception of me, you know, and in some ways they may be a really excited or even surprised that you're asking, but when you want to know exactly what they're thinking when you ask that question.

00;08;26;01 - 00;08;42;24
Yeah. And I have jokes in my head, if I'm asking my kids, Am I being a good dad to you? And then be like, No, because you've got to give me money, you know? So yeah, everybody wins on that one. I guess I got my feedback and they maybe get some cash it, you know, you said it the feedback, right?

00;08;42;24 - 00;09;03;07
So another, another scenario which my thoughts will include is, you know, recently if somebody is coming to you that doesn't normally come to you and they're and they're, you know, it could be a manager, somebody, some position of influence authority that matters less. But you're not used to the answering questions in a way that they aren't. So they ask.

00;09;03;11 - 00;09;21;19
So like different levels of questioning right. So, you know, you being a senior vice president, probably high level, you have an enormous amount of knowledge in the details of something wherever in the topic that you have because you've conditioned your mindset to understand that stuff. You know, it it's your it's your thing. Whereas maybe I don't because I'm not I'm not at that level.

00;09;21;19 - 00;09;38;10
I'm not exposed to it on a regular basis to think that way. So I'm a little bit more in the weeds and whatnot. So if you ask me a question that I'm not used to hearing, I may not answer it accurately, especially if it's over Slack or text or something like that written. Then I, I may answer it.

00;09;38;10 - 00;10;10;29
And then you walk away thinking a certain kind of way about my answer where it wasn't wasn't complete. I have learned in that sense to where there's some people out there that hear things and they answer a question, but they don't understand the context or the spirit or the essence of the question to be able to follow up and be mindful of the things that I'm taking the long way around to answer your your or respond to your your statement is the selfless thought that goes into wanting to know, did I answer your question?

00;10;11;05 - 00;10;28;24
Am I serving you in the way that you expect? Am I delivering the things that are of value to you? And I think if we learned to become habitual in responding to people when they ask a question you say something along the lines of and you can make it your own. Does that into your question? Was that helpful?

00;10;29;27 - 00;10;33;28
You know, that way you can kind of calibrate whether or not you did answer it.

00;10;34;17 - 00;10;51;29
I think it's a very important point, Chris, just like is that when you're asking questions, you get an answer, or if you're giving an answer to some ask you questions it's the follow up questions. There's sometimes even more important. Right. I think you just said, is that did that answer what you were looking for is did I provide you in that the right direction?

00;10;51;29 - 00;11;15;21
Getting that clarity right? That's a big part of communication. Likewise, I think when sometimes you let's say you ask your manager or a peer saying, hey, am I doing the right things for the team? No, no, you're wasting everyone's time or you're focused on the wrong things. Now, sometimes people immediately will be defensive, right? And say, oh, hang on, the most important point is saying, oh, I'd like to understand that more.

00;11;15;22 - 00;11;42;17
Speaker 2
Right. You then asked them an additional question to get the more context so you can reflect and internalizing on it. And that's the most important thing because it's there especially you now open up the door that's a positive door, a getting a a wealth of information and feedback loops in and it's a safe place to do so. You know, I know I said a million times, especially on this topic, is that whenever you get feedback you always have one answer.

00;11;43;01 - 00;11;58;06
Thank you for the feedback. You never be defensive on it. If you ever respond, it's more of like can it's about asking more questions to get more feedback in a safe way because then that you never, ever, ever want to close that door because that means you're shutting the door on your career.

00;11;59;18 - 00;12;23;24
Yeah, there's missed opportunities. I mean that there's the can we open it up? So the missed opportunity, I mean, the engagement through dialog I think is kind of a, for me, a simplistic way to approach it, right? If if relationships are key to the things that we are trying to achieve right? Because we never do it alone. We may think that that's not accurate.

00;12;24;18 - 00;12;55;11
If relationships are key to the things that we're trying to achieve, the kind of the base premise right? The the fundamentals of the foundation of that comes through the dialog where we learn more about the types of individuals that we're engaging with. And I think you just nailed it is one, the candor which you've talked about before is all is all most of us need is because if everything's good in our head, then we don't really grow because we're not being challenged.

00;12;55;11 - 00;13;14;25
You know, it's all perceptions virtual virtually, depending upon how you perceive things in the timing of things. But if the dialog isn't occurring where it's it's inconsistent of just facts, right? It's just we're just talking and I'm sharing with you based off of our, our relationship and the value that we provide each other in the roles that we're in.

00;13;15;03 - 00;13;25;00
I'm giving you information so we can together continue this to grow this relationship and then be able to, you know, how do you say drive towards common goals?

00;13;26;10 - 00;13;30;20
Yes. You know, common goals, shared goals, shared outcomes, Absolutely.

00;13;31;18 - 00;13;51;00
Yeah. So it's the you know, like you said, is, you know, taking the information in for what it is, you know, avoiding the temptation to be take it personally. I was going to say not be emotional about it. Maybe you should be emotional about it. Maybe maybe you should be upset that somebody is coming to you and sharing with you.

00;13;51;02 - 00;14;08;24
Now, delivery is also the thing. I want to I want to be clear here, right? So you have to be we learned this in the military, but, you know, anywhere you learn this tact is important, right? How you deliver it. It's not necessarily sometimes what you say, it's how you say it that carries the impact, too. So but even then, we can dissect that and say, well, that's all relative perception.

00;14;08;24 - 00;14;24;09
Based off of the person you're speaking with, how they feel at the moment, maybe the lens they have, maybe they are in a you know, not in a great mood. And then, you know, some you could say the same thing twice and it be interpreted differently each time. But depending on the mood of the individual, you're saying it, too.

00;14;24;09 - 00;14;37;12
But I think I think you're right. It's it's a matter of understanding the timing of everything that we share with each other and the information we share has got to be relevant. And you had to be able to tie it to something that's important to what you're trying to do together.

00;14;38;17 - 00;15;02;03
I think you brought up a really important point, Chris. It's they it's not just about tact. Right. And I think as we learn, it's about IQ right here, the emotional quotient. And I'm going to put that one down me. That's why we have a future podcast, right? Because you may be as factually correct and accurate as possible, but if you don't have your IQ in line, right by the the the communication flow, the result can be very, very negative.

00;15;02;03 - 00;15;04;24
So I'm going to see that on our list here for that for the future.

00;15;05;06 - 00;15;06;05
I wrote it down.

00;15;06;20 - 00;15;26;07
You know, with that said, you know, I think that there's also a little bit of the time and place of when to ask questions, right? So just like, you know, the IQ being in a safe place is that you really want to understand the and think about the context, the situation that you're in, right? Is that asking questions at the wrong time, right?

00;15;26;07 - 00;15;50;13
Can be create the wrong perceptions and things like that. And you always make sure there's a a safe place. Right. It also likewise is that knowing you know, you may get, you know, not the you may get feedback that may be painful. Right. So for example, one of my favorite things I told many mentors is that once a month, you should ask your manager, you know, what's the one thing that you're doing wrong, right?

00;15;50;14 - 00;16;06;06
What's the most painful, you know, failure, right? And you want to do it safe. That your manager gets to emotion that into a position that they're very comfortable sharing with you because you want to know the things that are the back of their mind that they're holding back. They know it's going to be painful they don't want to share it because we're human.

00;16;07;00 - 00;16;23;26
So certainly don't do this on a Friday, you know, because in a Friday, it's like, yeah, the weekend's going to be kind of miserable for you. Right? You know, the idea is like maybe doing a Monday or Tuesday. So that night you're going to go home, not feel so good, but you're going to get through it. Right. Versus dwelling on it.

00;16;23;26 - 00;16;35;07
Over the weekend. But once you get used to it, you also want to do it. You want to continue doing it, but you're going can be ready for it. So it's about planning when you perform things.

00;16;35;28 - 00;16;54;06
Yeah, it's a good point. The you know, this is classic. So time time is is a factor in everything that we're doing, right? I mean, that's I think everybody understands that if you have time for it, you try to bring it up. But here's a common thing that I've noticed. You know, maybe you've you're in a you're in a conversation with somebody like, oh, I have to go like, wait one more question.

00;16;54;06 - 00;17;16;20
And it's it's the big question that probably should have been asked earlier. But you drop it when somebody has already said that they're in a rush, in a hurry, needing to now, you know, leave the leave the conversation and then you give them this this deep question that significant in everything that's happening. And like you on the Friday, what you're saying on a Friday is, you know, sometimes you don't want to do that for whatever reason.

00;17;17;12 - 00;17;48;26
I think it's a matter of that IQ that you're talking about. The the situational awareness and we've experienced this where if under pressure the timing of it is to say, hey, we got we have to go. We have to execute well. If that's the case, then recognize read the room to recognize, you know, is this a question that I need to know the answer based on the severity of the time of where we're in at the moment, or is this something that we just table and we can learn after?

00;17;49;05 - 00;18;13;17
Or I can ask somebody else. And I think that's what it all it's an infinite loop that comes back to the individual and understanding if you're not contributing at the right level where you bring in value that's par with the team that you're in or the group that you're in, then it's probably better safe than sorry to hold the question and take it offline instead of consuming time with everybody else around.

00;18;13;28 - 00;18;27;15
That is probably already on the table. Now we can go back and pass it back to you, but you go back and say, Well, maybe everybody's thinking the same thing and nobody's asking it. And then now that important question doesn't get asked. That's a tough one.

00;18;27;26 - 00;18;40;23
Actually. I think you raise some great points here about is the timing of like in the audience when it's a one on one audience. For a larger audience, there's the times of things that you'd say that now I need to ask a question because there's an elephant in the room and no one's raising it, and that's the right thing to do.

00;18;41;03 - 00;19;05;17
There's other times that they're everyone's maybe afraid to ask the question and you need to step up and lead through that. There's also other times that you need be careful that you may have an issue with one person. You may have an issue with, you know, one thing, that thing of sometimes asking the wrong question at the wrong time can derail everything and be very damaging in saying that you may want to choose to take it offline or go to individual.

00;19;06;09 - 00;19;21;24
And so to be very careful and thinking through that. Right, is that whose impact would be the question, is it everyone in a positive or negative way or is it just one person? And being very strategic and thoughtful on that is equally important yeah.

00;19;22;08 - 00;19;44;26
Yeah. And actually just kind of rolling my eyes, looking for a way to explain it. If you're really dialed in to the room where there's multiple people or maybe it's just one, you know, that you you probably see the right person to ask the question. So maybe it's not necessarily to everybody, but then you've already identified that this person is demonstrated to be skilled in this area.

00;19;45;17 - 00;20;06;02
Let me not consume time from everybody else to ask the question that's probably most relevant to only that one person that I'm able to now be aware of, because historically we've learned that these, you know, these positions that we're in and roles that we're in, you know, we know who to go to. And we can we can target the question specifically being more efficient.

00;20;06;02 - 00;20;21;00
But that's the work that we're talking about, is to be able to share the information, to know who's bringing the value in particular areas. This is what we're talking about. You're developing a group of people around you to know who to go to for very specific things to optimize time.

00;20;21;03 - 00;20;46;09
Yeah, absolutely. Now, let's take it to the next level is thinking about best practices. And sometimes that that there's a topic, whether it's a meeting with others or topic with, you know, with a manager or a peer. And you need to ask a hard question or exploratory. Well, sometimes you want to be do it in advance and saying, hey, for the meeting later in the week, here's the questions I'm going to ask.

00;20;46;13 - 00;21;04;11
Right. Or here's the questions here's the things that I'm looking for feedback on, or here's the things that I'm concerned about, or here's things I need clarity on in how you can do the, you know, the prep work. I love I'm a big fan of pre read, right? When you're helping everybody understand is what's going to come up, they can be ready for it.

00;21;04;12 - 00;21;29;02
They can be they can think through it. They can, you know, be thoughtful about it versus being a surprise right now. We all admit that sometimes that is the right tactic to surprise someone when things are going wrong. But think about it. You know, what is going to be a tactical hit? You know what's going to be a strategic, you know, motion and the timing is is critical planning.

00;21;30;02 - 00;21;47;25
That's another one that we talk about planning, right? So you're if you know, you're going to a conference, it's a mindset you've talked about it. But drilling down into that, if you know you're going somewhere, you know you're going on a trip, you can travel you want on a plane, taking a road trip, going to a conference, you plan you prepare.

00;21;48;10 - 00;22;06;23
That level of preparation is to get you to be more present wherever you're going as much as possible. To know that where you are is what's relevant to what should be on your mind. But you've prepared for it no different in planning a conversation. And I think that's probably what some people I don't know how many I don't know.

00;22;07;10 - 00;22;24;23
Some people don't consider that and they wait until the meeting to introduce something. So they create an agenda or they say, hey, I want to talk to you next week, let me know what's good and then leave it at that with the common question that comes back. But some people just probably have become accustomed to receiving it that way.

00;22;25;01 - 00;22;46;13
There isn't a follow up. Say Hey, great. Yeah, I can try to find time. What is it that we want to talk about? You can fire that question off and help somebody grow around you to be better prepared by planting the information early on what the general topics would include. So we have more meaningful depth and substance in the conversation when we get to that part yeah.

00;22;46;14 - 00;23;01;03
Chris, I can't resist commenting on this one. It's like one of my personal pet peeves is people that as you didn't become a manager, an organization, you know, over time, if you're like, Oh, David, I want to have a one on one with you. And I'm like, all right, what's the agenda? What questions you want to ask, right?

00;23;01;13 - 00;23;18;14
Is like, I don't want to meet unless I know what's upcoming is like, am I the right person? Is can I be prepped on the questions? Are we going to be surprised on it? Right. And I think that is it's a my personal pet peeve. But I also, I think in being a better leader, being a better person is kind of like, all right, here's the agenda.

00;23;18;14 - 00;23;29;27
Here's the questions I'm going to ask so that it can be the most productive, you know, in optimized conversation versus being surprised and then it's like great questions. I need to follow up on that because I got to go look into it.

00;23;30;17 - 00;23;50;26
Right. Which delays. Yeah. And, you know, the selfish thing and I'll say that with love in my heart, the selfish thing is to think that if it happens to you, you won't feel the same way, right? If somebody comes in and drops something last minute on you, you know, it's happened to us before. It was like, why didn't you tell me earlier?

00;23;51;04 - 00;24;18;23
Or Why didn't you let me know? Or I don't know. I'd have to think about that. I mean, we're digging deep on this one because some people probably won't even be able to have our, say, courage or confidence might be a better word. I don't know. To be able to say because it's we're all based. Right. You know, David, senior vice president, you know, chief information security, these titles that might interfere with my ability where David comes to me, ask me a question that I don't really have an answer for.

00;24;18;23 - 00;24;36;24
So instead of saying it's a good question, David, I'm going to need a day to probably go back and try to find some of those answers. Instead, I'll feel compelled to accommodate the question because of the pressure I put on myself on who is in front of me. And it's my own thing. And I'm like, hmm, And now I might be reaching for the answers, right?

00;24;36;24 - 00;25;00;26
So I think I think these things that we're talking about here is, you know, we're scraping the surface on scenarios that should introduce to anybody that's caring to hear it all the opportunities to where you can simply optimize time and be courteous to others by asking questions up front but that takes preparation, which you have to have clarity, which you have to know yourself on.

00;25;01;02 - 00;25;07;06
What will it take for me to have these elements to be optimal, invaluable in other people's goals?

00;25;07;24 - 00;25;25;17
Absolutely. And Chris, it doesn't matter of what the levels are for the people, you know, the hierarchy's things like that. You know, tomorrow, Chris, if you get a you get a message saying, Chris, I want to have a one on one with you tomorrow for some urgent issues. How do you feel about that ambiguity? Right. Am I the right person you know, can I be prepped for this?

00;25;25;17 - 00;25;34;26
Right. You know, and this person would join with me. Who cares, right? You want to be ready for it. And it's really then you say no one on one because I want to know what the questions are.

00;25;35;22 - 00;25;52;24
Yeah, it's not fair. And that goes back to the core asking the right questions. So it's like, okay, great. Got it. Can you give me the top three things just real quick? I know you have to go consider it. Right? I'm acknowledging compassion and empathy. I'm saying, well, the person's probably benefit doubt. Probably too busy to give me the details.

00;25;52;24 - 00;26;17;28
And in their mind, is just doing me. They think they're doing me a favor by saying, hey, it's it's important. But now my mind's especially on Friday, my mind's world wending around the infinite loop of the abyss of what it could be. And to them, again, it's it's relative to perception. To them, it's urgent. To me, it's like, oh, I wish you had told me that in the beginning, because that simple I could slack or text you or simply respond immediately because I know the answer.

00;26;18;25 - 00;26;35;00
Correct? Yeah. Or it's a Friday. A Friday afternoon. Chris, an urgent to talk to you about. And like, I got to wait 8 hours to find out about this. You know, I was going to take off a weekend, right? Yeah. And I think that's sometimes when you play it back to people like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's quite reasonable. I should have offer that to you.

00;26;35;01 - 00;26;35;09
Right?

00;26;35;21 - 00;27;02;21
It's fair, right? To be fair, you know, and that's, that's being inclusive, that's being respectful, that's being mindful, it's being you know, the type of professional that, you know, most people would love to have. Some people don't recognize that it's a possibility because not everybody's doing it because well, a bunch of reasons, but maybe just people aren't aware or they're not cognizant of how they're they're giving the impression to others.

00;27;02;21 - 00;27;27;07
Of what they're doing. Maybe maybe nobody slow them down to say, here's what you said. Here's the one thing that you can improve on. I've noticed this last week. Right. But if you don't ask that now, you've put it on somebody else to to, you know, overflow their tolerance levels, if you will, and then feel compelled to say it through probably a higher level of emotion versus a baseline of just simple conversation.

00;27;27;23 - 00;27;50;27
Absolutely. And I think that the thing is, you know, coming back to the fundamentals here, is is we talked many times of things about, you know, listening. Sometimes, you know, the best listeners, the best leaders are the people that ask questions. Right. And it's not a challenge. Right. It's to understand. And sometimes by asking questions, people can really feel right that you care, that you're understanding.

00;27;50;27 - 00;28;12;00
Right. You're you're that you are listening. Right? Because if you ask questions versus, you know, like, now I'm just talking to you, you're nodding your head like, are you really listening to me, Chris? Right. But like but if you start asking me questions like, oh, you were listening to me, oh, you do care, right? You do understand. It's amazing how powerful just asking a few questions can be in communication.

00;28;12;16 - 00;28;45;07
I'm not my head because immediately said something that had me think of a friend of mine who introduced something that when when he and I talk, he wasn't asking the right questions right. And he'd gone through a pretty significant career and being successful at it. He's humble enough. He probably won't admit that. But when he when somebody in my mind that I hold in high regard says it not asking the right questions, I'm like, how do you how did you achieve everything that you did and not ask the right questions?

00;28;45;19 - 00;29;08;21
But so I was immediately I was listening and listening to talk a little bit because I wanted to share that. But you're right. The you know, the communication, that's another element that you factor in. And what's your what's your observing that should spark if you're in the moment, you should spark that should spark you now to realize something because you're recognizing that it's different than what you had seen in the last couple of minutes.

00;29;08;21 - 00;29;28;23
And it's initiating another desire to learn. And that's the point. I think we all get that you ask questions to learn. Some of the problem is, you know, some of us have some pride and ego or we don't feel like we can or should from the people that we're around at the moment. And so we don't. Right. And that's probably your most vulnerable moment.

00;29;29;12 - 00;29;48;17
Yeah. I'm coming back to the point is, you know, Chris, I think that you think about times that we're doing a review or presentation to one of our leaders, executives, others right. And do you like it the most when they just they nod, they quiet for an hour and they say, all right, thanks, everybody. See you soon. Okay.

00;29;48;17 - 00;30;11;02
Do they get it? Do they really like it? You know, feedback versus throughout the question, you know, throughout the presentation or review, they're like they're asking some questions, some thoughtful question, and they understand it. Oh, yeah. They they clearly we're on the same page. Oh, oh, no. We're we're off track here. We ask just sometimes just asking a few questions, even if it's that they're totally aligned, they're totally on the same page.

00;30;11;02 - 00;30;26;16
They're totally going to approve everything. A few questions gives us that validation, right? And that sometimes is very important to us as leaders. So thinking about or just anyone, right? Is how are you coming, you know, communicating back, ask a few questions. You've conveyed a very clear message back.

00;30;27;09 - 00;30;50;13
Yeah. So let's let's tinker with the. Well, let me go back and I just did what you just said. I teach back in a conversation. It's a classroom setting sometimes that where you've seen it, right? Where the you know, we we show, we tell, we show. And then they demonstrate understanding something that we're familiar with. Right. That's sort of times training and all that stuff.

00;30;50;13 - 00;31;13;06
When we go out there in the field and learn something or not, depending on who you are, but the idea, though, is, you know, you're acknowledging through, you know, repeating what was just discussed like. No, it's a good point, David. You know, it's it's when people don't demonstrate that they've confirmed or, you know, through some method confirm that they've heard what you just said before you move on.

00;31;13;06 - 00;31;32;24
I was just did that. And the intent is to be curious about it enough to where you don't have to think about that. Right. And I think that comes through putting the reps in and rehearsing on how to just a good news you heard all the time he's you know the person she's a great conversationalist. You know, she really listens.

00;31;33;06 - 00;31;57;25
And I really feel like there's substance in the conversations that we're having because before you move on to a subject, you want to make sure that it's complete. Right. And that comes through just the thing that we just talked about. You know, somebody says something and you respond. It's how you respond that kind of motivates or incentivizes somebody wanted to continue because if it's empty and like what you said in your example, you know, they just said, okay, that's great.

00;31;57;25 - 00;32;17;18
And any other questions, everybody? Yeah, you don't feel heard, which probably is another episode, you know, how do you feel heard or how can you you know what? I don't know. Doesn't matter. But yeah, I think I think it's a it's a point to where, you know, reciprocating the the you got to close beginning, middle end the story.

00;32;17;22 - 00;32;25;28
The beginning is what's the question? The middle is the conversation. And the end is the summary of what we just talked about in some brief form, depending on the level of conversation.

00;32;26;26 - 00;32;44;29
Yeah. Spin on. I think that's a great summary, Chris. I think the I think that, you know, the real question, I think at the end here, no, pun intended to. Right. Is like how do we get everyone, you know, to build the habit of asking lots of questions, right. You know, and I'll say if you're having everybody, you know, pick up the book, you know, comic habits, right?

00;32;44;29 - 00;32;52;03
An easy and proven way to build good habits and break bad ones. And if you haven't read the book, Chris, have you read that book yet?

00;32;52;21 - 00;33;04;05
No, I don't. I I have I have a lot of books. I read some of them, but rarely do I read all of them all the way through. So but I have it and I've dabbled yes.

00;33;04;22 - 00;33;13;12
Yeah. So, Chris, we we have to we have to build the habit of you reading all the book recommendations we make on this this podcast. Yeah. And that's not a question. It's a statement.

00;33;14;09 - 00;33;51;09
It's a fact. Right. So you're right. Yeah. I mean, it's I think the funny thing is there if I were to kind of pull that as an analogy or kind of metaphorically speaking, I'd probably analogy an example is that's indicative of conversation, right? Where you pick your spots level of interest and then that probably either excites you about asking more questions because it's something that you're connected to and your, your, you know, it's important and so you do that or if it's not that compelling for you, that probably drives your interest level too, where you don't answer the question or you don't read the whole book.

00;33;51;09 - 00;34;14;02
You know, you're looking for something that you want and then you leave, right? So whether it's conversation or relationship or book or what have you and maybe that's the things that we can consider to say it's it's never about you, really. It's always about others. And so what you're wanting to do is a goal is maybe to carry that mindset into, say, how can I serve you better?

00;34;15;14 - 00;34;15;29
Well, what?

00;34;17;11 - 00;34;22;24
All right. Good stuff, David. It's always a pleasure. Any closing comments.

00;34;23;19 - 00;34;43;17
In closing comment is I say to everyone is that starting tomorrow, start asking yourself questions. I start asking your managers questions, start asking your peers questions. Right. And you know, we're looking forward to the next podcast, too. And we're going to ask everybody at the beginning, you know, what questions have you asked yourself today before kicking off the episode?

00;34;44;16 - 00;34;49;12
I love it. Yeah. Questions. Ask them how anybody keep moving forward,

We don’t need to know what’s going on 100% of the time, but 100% of the time we need to know what’s going on. Why and when do we let others know about what we’re doing?

 

In this episode we talk about VISIBILITY and why this topic is important for many people in advancing their careers, being recognized for great impact and performance and also, quite possibly even more importantly, to ensure you are focusing on the right priorities and initiatives.

 

You should expect that not everyone will be able to recognize or see your value unless you have intentionally put yourself out there to be the one people think of when needing help!

 

We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve.

 

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Episode Transcript:

00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;11
You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maiden podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS Chief Information Security Officer within Oracle.

00;00;28;15 - 00;00;58;22
We don't need to know what's going on 100% of the time, but 100% of the time we need to know what's going on. Why and when do we let others know about what we're doing? In this episode, we're talking visibility and why this topic is important for many people in advancing their careers, being recognized for great impact and performance, and also quite possibly even more importantly, to ensure you're focusing on the right priorities and initiatives, you should expect that not everyone will be able to recognize or see your value unless you have intentionally put yourself out there to be the one they think of when they need help.

00;00;58;25 - 00;01;17;23
Listen in as we discuss how to be consistent, lead by example, and drive change with both yourself and your organization. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family.

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David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn David, good morning.

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Morning, Chris. I am so excited to get talking on this topic. Right. And is really making this stand out to everybody because it's about visibility.

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Visibility, how to be seen. How do you want to be seen how do you not want to be seen? That's a good one. So this is coming off the heels of our last one where we were talking about networking, and I think close to that was relationship and this one's visibility. So what do you got, David?

00;01;58;04 - 00;02;19;20
You know, Chris, I think there is a lot of people run into this challenge is that you're working your tail off, you're working 80 hours a week. You know, you're getting all these things done, you're closing all these deals, you're delivering all these results. Yet No one, you're not getting rewarded for it. You're not being recognized for it. You're you feel like you're not being compensated for it.

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Well, sometimes the root cause of this is you have no visibility. No one knows what in the world you're doing.

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That's a fact. I mean, those are the things that you really need to understand as far as why you're doing. It's one thing. Well, first of all, nobody should be doing 80 hours a week, but you got it. Context extra effort, putting in time. What you need to understand is where you're putting the time and how it's driving impact to the greater good, to the business, to the organization.

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To the team or what have you. And then making sure that not only do people know about it for updates and the relevance of how it ties back into those goals, those organizational goals. But more importantly, from an individual perspective, how do you acknowledge your performance and how you're contributing?

00;03;08;06 - 00;03;35;19
Absolutely. You know, I think as you think about how many companies like Oracle or Google and many others be used in OKRs, you know, objective objectives and key results. Right. So you say, okay, it's about results as impact Now, if your results and impact are not visible, if they're not clear, if they're not documented, if they're not evangelized, if they're not shared, then how can it really how can it be a measurable result?

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How can it be a major impact? Right. And so I think this is sometimes the kind of art and science of sometimes, you know, having great careers and great performance is thinking about not just about what you do, but also how you share it.

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It's good Segway. So how you share it. So it's it's it is, of course, what you're doing. It is, of course, why you're doing it. But if you're not letting people know whether they're on the team or not, depends on the relationship, which we talked about, how you're connecting with others on the relevance So if you're working with a virtual team, things that we already know is the best practices, you're going to work with the team and communicate effectively to be able to give the team updates.

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Here's what I'm doing Maybe we're talking a little bit about that. Maybe we're more focused on, again, the the way that you're perceived in others and providing the value. And so you can not necessarily get the credit for credit sake, but be acknowledged for the work that you're putting in that's contributing to these factors that eventually lead to some of the things that we're talking about, contributing to those OKRs, contributing to the goals, contributing to the team.

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But then when it comes to performance, it comes to performance management It comes to recognition for that performance and in compensatory reasons or promotion periods and things like that, it's, it's, it's all working together so as necessary.

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I agree. 100%. And I think sometimes I get stuck with a basic, you know, and best practice is that everything you do should be documented. Right. So I think it's like, let's go back to our military days, right? Everything you perform, right? You you have checklists, you have tasks, you have missions, right? And everything. There is a result and it's documented.

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It's not just kind of, you know, past my mouth, right. Or, you know, kind of tribal songs and things like that. You documented it is documented for a reason, a so that people can actually learn from it, you know, be you can measure and evaluate the results and see how people can be recognized, rewarded, you know, acknowledged for great work.

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And sometimes it's not just about what others do. It's about how you initiate it. Right. And it becomes part of your practice.

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Right. I think that's a that's another key point here. And as basic basic fundamentals I guess, is the way to kind of illustrate the key components, how do you initiate it? One, probably goes down and do a conversation of this is the beginning of a fiscal year, the beginning of a project or beginning of an idea. Hey, I'm thinking about doing this.

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What are your thoughts? And you're pulling people in and now you're beginning to pass the ideas back and forth. You're sharing some pads that can be taken for these types of things, and then you're trying to find and identify, well how many resources are going to be necessary for these types of things, how much work is involved, what are the costs?

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What are some of the restrictions and some of the elements that or the the variables that we need to consider before we get into that? Because that also is a way that you're being able to express the depth of your thoughts or your skills and your ability to know how to bring in others to help accomplish the goals, which is a factor like today in today's world where there's a lot of hybrid activities in these certain careers, where many years ago it was very niche, very specific.

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Now, you know, the workforce is looking for people that have a diverse skill set that contributes in a much broader way for the team or the organization. So initiating how you initiate is part of that disability. It's saying, Well, this person seems to have a good, deeper understanding of our business needs in our business. Let's talk more.

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I think, Chris, you bring up a great point is and maybe sometimes the soft skills, right, to a degree. So I think is that, you know, certainly a high tech sector we see this is you can have great technical skills, but you also need to have a soft skills, things like in a communication presentation. But this is things that fall into visibility, right?

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You may be the best developer in the world. You may be the best lessee. Machinist, right. You may be the best engineer. Yet, if you don't know how to communicate to these things, you don't know how to share these things. Right. Those are the soft skills. And this is what holds back a lot of people sometimes in their careers, right?

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In their performance, you know, in their recognition of the results. You know, those things and this is something that we really want to, you know, courage to think about you. Now, some ways, I think that, you know, I know we have, you know, probably thousands of non veteran military listeners to our podcast. Some people like are David, I don't I don't want to follow your military methods.

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We don't have that in our company. But I say, well, where do you start? So sometimes you start with very simple things. Going back to a topic that we've mentioned a few times here, and our podcast is networking, right? You know, never eat lunch alone. Never have coffee alone, right? Yes. Sometimes build your network and show their network on the results if they're not secret and proprietary, you know, you know, to your company.

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But like in your network inside your company and broader issue chair, look what we did. You know, look at the results here. Look at this. And the impact right in sharing it. And eventually you can start to build and grow that network and natural recognition and visibility can come from that.

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That's a good point. It it it just goes to show how important networking is through the networking. It builds the connections to be able to establish yourself and your maybe your reputation or your skill set precedes you. But everybody understands better about what you're able to offer. And now I mean, I think this is the we're talking about the very beginning phases of visibility is to say, do people want you working with them?

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How are you presenting yourself? And some of those things you just thought you just talked about, right? You introduced how you communicate everything begins with communicating, whether it's the written verbal doesn't matter. There's all of these indicators. You're saying, well, this person is giving me the impression that they know what they're doing. They know how to do it.

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And that in itself, the work that you're doing is a form of communication, if you will, because now it's going to be word of mouth. And so I think that reputation that's built off of successful accomplishments to include some failures, I mean, we we know that we want to fail because that's the test I'm saying. Is it going to work or not?

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We just need to understand how to fail. You know, I think the one thing that we understand most and you just talked about it was civilians or military veteran affiliated communities matters less. The whole idea is, well, when I have these skills, how do I communicate my skills to make them relevant to the topic or to the others that are looking for these type of skills to be included in that team dynamic or in that team discussion is is somebody that we want to be a part of the team.

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So I'll park it here. But the transferable skills, how do I communicate what I've done in order to have the proper visibility of what I'm capable of doing and how I'm going to contribute?

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Yeah, Chris, to build on a little bit, thinking about it's you know, I'm a big fan of Crawl, Walk, Run, right? You know, and starting things. I feel like, well, this doesn't, you know, culture does not exist in my company. We do. No one else does this well, sometimes I would say lead by example, right? Many companies, whether using Slack or Microsoft teams or KUDO boards and things like that, even though it's not necessarily given yourself kudos, it's maybe in giving others kudos lead by example, start in building that culture.

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Right. And you know, many other people saying that, wow, I saw, you know, Jane, Doe doing some great work. I want to recognize and call it out in encouraging others over time. Right. How becomes part of your team and company culture and then it gets easier, easier for people to be visible, easier for them to kind of share in a results, easier for people to be recognized for that.

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So I think that's one thing that we always ask and recommend people lead by example.

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No, that's that's a great example and that's a great example of how to be seen without putting the spotlight on you. And sharing credit, advocating for others my personal opinion is the proper way. I think at some point we all need to understand that everybody sees what's happening. I don't think there's a lot of people that are fooled or tricked into thinking that somebody else is doing the work.

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And the one that actually did it isn't going to get the credit. I think everybody over time is going to be able to see that the ones that did the work are the ones that are probably the most quiet in a humble way. Right? Not necessarily literally quiet, but it's just a matter of understanding that they're you know, they're silently acknowledging that they contributed, but they're more focused on giving the accolades to the team.

00;12;51;08 - 00;13;18;04
That way, everybody else is getting seen as being able to deliver and so I think that there's another part of the visibility component you have to really understand. You know, there's there's self advocating and then there's self when you how would you say it? Self gratifying, maybe, you know, where there's going to be a time and a place where you're going to have to explain your accomplishments in that setting.

00;13;18;04 - 00;13;32;07
It's because somebody is literally assessing whether or not you're going to be able to meet the expectations before they bring you in to start something with them that's not the same as what we're talking about. It's this is becoming now your footprint.

00;13;33;18 - 00;13;50;24
Yeah. Chris, building up on that right is I think there's always way to start things very easy and early, you know, whether regardless of your role, like with your manager, you know, very simple. I've learned this maybe you know, 15, 20 years ago, right? Is like every week you know is that your manager manager may not want it or not.

00;13;50;24 - 00;14;13;01
Right. You say, hey you write three to five bullets, hey, this is what I got done this week. This is what I'm going to do this week. And whether you're managing replies to it cares about it every single week you say, here's what I got done this week. And over time you'd be surprised everyone that of how addicts give that mail, that sort of accomplishments well will become to your manager and sometimes your skip levels and others.

00;14;13;07 - 00;14;34;04
Right. And then you can build upon that. Right? And I can't recommend this even more, you know, to to anyone. It's amazing is that once you build a rhythm, you know, a music beat, if you will, are drum beat, right? People will very quickly become addicted to it, start marching to it, no pun intended. And I can say also building upon a little bit is I've been writing for many people that know me.

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I write what's called the weekly dossier you know, the status mail newsletter. No, because people delete those. But I read the dossier, whether anyone reads it or not, I write it. Every company I've been at. Right. And eventually people start to follow and they want to know what's going on, you know, what they accomplish, what the results, what they said, just go read the dossier.

00;14;52;13 - 00;15;02;29
But people amazingly will start marching to your music and your drumbeat when you start it. It won't happen overnight. It won't happen in one week to week, three weeks. It may not happen for a couple of months.

00;15;03;12 - 00;15;13;19
And that is actually an interesting dynamic so it's a matter of understanding. Well, why why would you do that one? I'm assuming you do that because you love to do it, right?

00;15;14;00 - 00;15;32;21
I do it not so much at first. What, Nick? Actually, I'll be open and honest if I go back many years ago, people. What in the world are you doing, David? What are you getting done? What are your team doing right And so I initially I did to solve a problem, right? But over time, you know, I've managed large organizations.

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It's about what is your team doing? And so those of us in a cybersecurity, people know that security is always a black box. Right. And no one knows what in the world you guys are doing. Why we're paying you so much. Why do you have so many people? Well, we start doing some things and making it open. People get to you know, are quite thankful for it.

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And they recognized, well, why do we have this team So I think it evolved for me over time. But I realized that just like especially, you know, the other point of distributing organizations around the world, hybrid organizations, you know, people working remotely, you've got to overcommunicate. Otherwise, there is no visibility if we're not in the same office. Chris, how in the world do I know what in the world you're doing?

00;16;14;29 - 00;16;50;16
Yep. And that's that's where it intersects because, you know, to do to do something for a personal preference because it's love it it's what you love to do. And then when it becomes sort of depended on, I guess you can say dependent upon now people expected yeah. I guess the challenge would be now it becomes more laborious and there's a temptation now to to have an expectation to where some people if it's not sincerely or organically something they want to do, that consistency begins to fade because now it's an expectation.

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But in your experience, David, when you when you when you do that, what do you think is the number one driver for you to continue to write your dossier?

00;17;02;07 - 00;17;20;18
Well, from myself is the fact that more and more people sign up to read it and receive it every week or so. That's an insight in itself. But I'll give you going back to another element, as you mentioned, about, you know, careers, performance, you know, performance review cycles. I go, oh, what in the world did I do this year?

00;17;21;07 - 00;17;40;14
Should I be exceeded should be outstanding, right? Or whatever. What do I write down? Well, you know, if you had a nice little record of a weekly mail that you wrote every week or a couple of bullets every single week of all your accomplishments for the year, it gets really, really easy to write your performance review for the year because you've already documented everything.

00;17;40;18 - 00;17;43;20
Now just cut and paste. Believe it or not, it can be that simple.

00;17;44;20 - 00;18;18;24
Got it. And that's that's what I was going for because it's there's a duality in it. You're it's self-serving, but it's not self centered, right? You're doing it because it's going to provide value down the line and noting, documenting or updating, you know, in whatever form, whether it's writing it in a notebook and then eventually transposing it into digital format or if you're taking notes digitally, all of those things carry into that as an opportunity for us to understand maybe what you're thinking, you know, anybody out there wondering, well, I want to do it, but what's the point?

00;18;18;25 - 00;18;40;09
Well, the point should begin with you. You're doing it for you. And the whole point is it matters less what other people think. The second is, if you're going to do that and then you're going to share it with others, Then what we talked about is you have to be effective with it and then tailor it to the needs of the audience where it provides a perceived value and that value.

00;18;40;10 - 00;19;09;24
David gave a good example in his area of the industry. It's very specific. Security is no joking matter. So you have to make sure that you're still abiding by the facts or the the common issues that will help others understand it while you're doing it for you. And make it relevant. Even though, you know, like David was saying, there's things that sometimes people will read or won't read, but it's there if they need it.

00;19;10;03 - 00;19;27;22
I think that's the key especially when you're putting in the effort and you're working with others. And there is going to be a need at some point to understand what's going on, to be truthful we don't need to know what's going on 100% of the time, but 100% of the time we need to know what's going on, if that makes sense.

00;19;27;22 - 00;19;31;02
We just have to pick our times. And when we're looking for those updates.

00;19;32;07 - 00;19;58;23
You're spot on. Chris, I'd like to bring up another point on, you know, sometimes being visible, you know, kind of documenting things, sharing it is some some people actually may fear this, but it's actually one of the most important things is if you're not visible and you're not sharing it and being public about it, then you often can miss what you may be doing wrong or that you may be working on the wrong things or you may be focused on the wrong priorities.

00;19;59;10 - 00;20;18;28
And when you're overly visible about things, it's really easy to get feedback in people. We will not say, no pun intended, they'll attack it. Right. Those are things you want to know about can you imagine? We've seen people throughout their careers is that, hey, they're working on something for three or six months and then time comes to review cycle or other things.

00;20;19;15 - 00;20;37;20
Chris, why in the world are you working on that? No one wants that. And it's well, well, why don't you tell me? I had no idea that's what you're doing, wasting your time on that. And those are so important, right? It's just like mistakes. You want to be open about it, you want to learn from it, but you want people that are very quickly saying you're focusing on the wrong things.

00;20;37;27 - 00;20;48;13
These are the wrong priorities. Why is your attention not you know, when you're focused on X, you want that invite in by being visible at this, it can be a major asset to you.

00;20;49;09 - 00;21;23;26
That's it. So I couldn't help myself there habits, right? If you're the habits of what you do and that's what people see in that consistency, then it becomes more transparent. It becomes easier for others to understand what what's missing. And so if they if they see that there's constant if there's information that's constantly being put out there, that's giving the opportunity to assess the activity in any relationship.

00;21;23;26 - 00;21;53;15
I don't care if it's family or professional or in matters less. I mean, I don't know how many types of other relationships there would be, but it has it depends on the ability to to to communicate effectively if the visibility is going to be key and how you're going to be viewed, then I think from your example where I couldn't help, it is be the habit that means do it consistently, do it sincerely, and then you'll be seen, right?

00;21;53;16 - 00;22;08;10
This is visibility. You'll be seen as somebody that has the discipline to continue and the willingness to receive input because you're putting the information out there, it appears that you'd be willing to receive information that can help everybody be better.

00;22;09;22 - 00;22;29;13
Absolutely. You know, I think is like I know Chris, you're probably, you know, followers on a number of people on TikTok and Instagram reels and things like that. Right. Well, you're following the people who are pretty consistent with their content, right? You don't you're not the, you know, following people. They're just one, you know, video hits, right? You're following the people are consistent and things you like and you're continue to follow them at the same time.

00;22;29;13 - 00;22;36;08
Those people know when they go off kilter, right? They're going to know very, very quickly and get that feedback. And this is what it's all about.

00;22;37;17 - 00;23;08;29
The personal algorithms, I guess, is the way to say that. It's with that consistency, people know what to expect and I think that's key, right? It becomes a dependency that because of what you're able to provide and you're demonstrating the consistency that allows people to know who to go to. Right. So ultimately, I think we've lost a number of steps here to key in on because we're we're doing a couple of trajectories on the side, what we can do and how we can do it.

00;23;09;23 - 00;23;41;24
But how you're seeing through that dependency that that consistency allows people to when an opportunity comes up, they're going to think of you. And I think that's what we're talking about here is mostly as you're making we call it networking call making connections, you can be socializing. It matters less. The point is when you're connecting with other people, regardless of the reason, hopefully it's sincere and it's less self-serve thing in the sense of it's always in it for you, more so it's in it for you so you can help the team, which is different.

00;23;42;25 - 00;24;07;09
I think the thing that the consider is as you're going through, people understand who their go to is. If it's in a particular area you've developed over the years, that you've become a very specific you know, subject matter expert in these critical areas you'll be thought of. And so if you're project based in a project comes up because not all the projects are the same, but when one does and they think of you, that's the point.

00;24;07;09 - 00;24;37;03
And the way they think of you is through that consistency of being able to be an effective communicator, it's tailoring your information to somebody or anybody. So they have an ability to piece things together over time because it's not the one hit wonder that we're after. It's over time they're able to see these little nuggets and then piece together a little puzzle that says That's the puzzle of somebody that has these skills, these attributes, these elements that I want to be I want to include as a part of the team to help me accomplish what I need to do.

00;24;37;04 - 00;24;55;24
Now, Chris, I'd like to take it to the next level, right? I think about the consistency of the visibility. And, you know, I think from an element of leadership is when you have the visibility, you have the consistency, you have that audience, right? Then you have the opportunity to drive an agenda, to drive a direction, to drive a strategy, right?

00;24;56;00 - 00;25;17;00
Because now you have a natural followers. You have natural listeners. Right. And very carefully. Right. I'm not saying that from a malicious perspective, but like people like you can actually start driving an agenda in a direction and a strategy now because of that, that voice. And so it's just like, you know, singers or music music, you can slightly kind of take things in a slightly different direction.

00;25;17;08 - 00;25;30;11
You can send a message, right? You can push in certain topics, right? And it's amazingly how powerful that can be when you build that visible, consistent, you know, kind of audience and message.

00;25;32;16 - 00;26;11;12
You hear that that was the can you just opened on driving change. So as we sit here and we talk about things through observation that we experience and we want to now influence a different way of doing things, being driving change, change management or anything to influence different outcomes because you've presented yourself in a way where people trust it, they find you to be a dependable contributor, selfless in the sense of wanting to serve the greater good or the greater team, the organizational goals, having a right construct and value systems, they start to trust you if you're able to.

00;26;11;12 - 00;26;43;25
Now, put together the information and have it point towards something that will help deliver even better results through ideas, sharing now you have a seat at the table. You're right. I think this is one of those things that, you know, you're able to truly understand the depth of its power. As you mentioned, and then leverage that not to exploit it, but you want to actually leverage it to be able to help others rally around your ability to see things differently and then now contribute in in bigger ways.

00;26;44;11 - 00;27;05;08
Absolutely. You know, another element of this I maybe should have mentioned earlier is that let's think about some of the great leaders right? You know, in our work thinking about in life and thinking about in the military. Right. And so I know your favorite historical general in the Army was, you know, patent right. Is that do people love leaders that are just completely opaque?

00;27;05;14 - 00;27;24;08
You have no idea how they make decisions. They have no idea what their principles are. You have no idea on what their agenda is. It's pretty hard to do. But when they're very when they're very open, transparent and clear, right on where they're going, what the goals are, how we're going to do things right. People, it's so much easier to follow is so much more motivating and it's so much more productive.

00;27;24;08 - 00;27;29;10
Right. And that's what because they're visible, they're visible, open and they're transparent.

00;27;30;05 - 00;27;57;11
You know, and relevant. And then there's more we can add on to that. But if you're all of those things and in my mind could be a timing thing, but either way, maybe you don't get looked at the same. So let's briefly cover that. So immediate gratification now that we have these these contributing factors, you know, I'm I'm understanding my dynamic, my my environmental dynamic, right where I am, either in the workplace or in the community, it matters less.

00;27;58;13 - 00;28;23;10
I'm learning how to present myself. We talked about personal branding. That's a form of communication. I'm presenting myself to be a valued member of society, of the team, of the organization. I'm communicating effectively. I'm identifying what the leaders within that community needs to see in order to have what they need to be successful in driving mission and moving things forward.

00;28;24;09 - 00;28;46;00
I'm getting better at that. I'm practicing and I'm more consistent now. I want something in return. What are your thoughts on. Well, David, I want it tomorrow. I want it today. If I'm doing all of these things you told me last week and I'm doing it right, I want to get what I'm deserving today. My thoughts on that.

00;28;46;18 - 00;29;06;17
Yeah, great question. And I always like the answer. Back with the question. Right. So it's just kind of going back to a manager, right? He was saying your manager, your script level, your organization saying that instead of seeing a statement like I'm having this amazing impact on the organization or on customers, I always ask the question, is this the most important thing to our customers?

00;29;06;25 - 00;29;28;07
Is this the most impactful project in our entire organization? You know, question mark at the end about? And then basically because you've asked the question, there has to be an answer or someone will drive an answer. No, David, that is, you are worthless. No, David, you're not working on the right things. No, David, you know that's the wrong priorities or it is it is amazing.

00;29;28;07 - 00;29;50;03
Right? So it's getting a little of that visibility and validation. Right. You know, on that. And sometimes but you never assume like, you know, Seinfeld never assume. We'll leave it at that. But the element is you want to validate and sometimes you validate not my making statements by asking questions. And they will devise some answers. And then you can realize, oh, I am working on something important.

00;29;50;03 - 00;30;01;12
I'm going to keep focused on this or no, maybe I'm working on the wrong things and taking the wrong approach. And that's just as important as, you know, driving. You need to get the communication feedback.

00;30;02;05 - 00;30;24;21
To great Segways and can't say that they're closely aligned to the visibility compartment, but I guess maybe they could be. We'll make it that way. Why? Because you and I are driving the narrative in this conversation, so validation the point of that is to make sure that you're on track. We're confirming, you know, hey, here's what I'm seeing of what you're delivering.

00;30;25;04 - 00;30;50;15
I'm observing or you're intentionally providing me this information in my best in the best of my ability, in my position are my view how I play a role in this particular relationship. Here's what I'm saying needs to happen. Great job here. Needs a little bit of work there or something. Else. And then the second thing you say, well, questions, it's more discovery.

00;30;50;24 - 00;31;14;28
Great. Thanks for giving me that information. Here's my question or here are my questions. I think this is probably a separate podcast in itself. How to ask the right question. But if you think about that dialog that's occurring after that, now you're beginning to understand how the relationship element is supposed to work through the visibility characteristic or that action.

00;31;15;13 - 00;31;38;02
You're providing information, you're providing visibility to others on what you're doing, and it's either delivered in the actions or the written form or through word of mouth. At some point, there's follow ups that need to occur because that's going to now get into the depth of what's really needing to happen for it to continue to move forward. Otherwise it becomes stagnant.

00;31;38;02 - 00;31;45;15
Like most things untouched, it becomes stagnant and then it loses its relevancy. Why? Because it's out of the time of when it was relevant.

00;31;45;26 - 00;32;05;18
Yep. I think we always have to ask the hard questions, and I am excited to, you know, that Will, you know, that's probably our next podcast, right? But you know, they validation is that is this having is this having the same expected results between what I think and you think or the team thinks, right? And in asking people that and be open about that and being ready for that feedback.

00;32;05;18 - 00;32;27;07
Right. And I think that is really helps you to know by being visible, helps you to know are you prioritizing properly, are you investing the right way in a way, those type of things. And I think many people don't understand that that's sometimes the most important task they can in being visible is asking questions.

00;32;28;16 - 00;33;02;02
Yeah, I think I think, you know, and maybe in closing here we're going to want to down with some of these these thoughts if you're not driving your visibility for yourself, of course, learning how to do it effectively like we talked about somebody else to do it for you. Right. That's the thing. If you're if you're sincerely and organically putting in the right work the right way, understanding that we aren't perfect and we make mistakes and we fail and you know, some decisions because they're uninformed or for whatever reason, too risky and doesn't land where we wanted it to.

00;33;02;02 - 00;33;29;10
And, you know, we have to pull back and reassess. If you're not going to advocate for yourself to start with, then you have to invest an enormous amount of trust into somebody who will. But then you become dependent on somebody's ability or willingness to be able to do that. And when it doesn't align with the timelines, don't complain because the factor is, is you're not doing enough on your own to be able to push out what people need to see from you so they can see you.

00;33;29;29 - 00;33;50;21
Increase their spot on. And it comes back to the word, I think, not just visibility, but execution. Right. And, you know, it will lead me to, you know, this podcast, you know, book recommendation. Right. You know, to have solid execution. Right. You need a visibility. Right. And execution is really the discipline of getting things done. So, you know, book by, you know, Larry Cassidy and Ram Sharon.

00;33;50;21 - 00;34;11;17
Right. Is that how can you execute on a strategy? How can it execute and mission if you're not visible and don't communicate? It's a spot. That's exactly what's going on here. Right. And so I think that's part of our our mission as part of our responsibility is to be visible. Right. And it's also our opportunity to lead. Right.

00;34;11;17 - 00;34;13;25
By being visible and encouraging others to do the same.

00;34;14;14 - 00;34;41;13
Right. Yeah. And we can unpack that all day. The type of leadership, the styles of leadership the the the type of leadership, informal, formal, everybody is at some point influencing something. So that can be, by a loose definition, a leader right, wrong or indifferent. It's a fact. You just want to you want to be more you want to be geared more towards the right way to do it than just being reckless in how you're making decisions and including people.

00;34;41;13 - 00;35;04;02
Because just because you want it to be something different than the sincerity, right? The role is you're well, we just talked about your influencing others in a way that has them making decision. So if you're doing it the wrong way, it is the wrong way because you're not doing it for the right reasons. And I know I'm being cryptic in that, but not so much.

00;35;04;02 - 00;35;17;03
I think everybody will understand the context of it is you got to put effort into doing things that carry high moral ground and value systems. So it's bringing people together then then eventually leading people apart.

00;35;18;08 - 00;35;34;06
You know, Chris, I think that's a great summary. At the same time, I think people are going to have lots of questions, you know, on, on this area. And I think that's probably should be our next podcast is really what type of questions to ask and how to ask great questions. And I look forward to meeting up and discussing that next.

00;35;34;22 - 00;35;52;15
Likewise. Yeah. It's great to get on these and do these seemingly quick hits, but this wasn't so quick. I mean, we actually we did ramble for quite some time here and I think it was good. I think we got hopefully covered the ground we wanted to. So, David, it's always a pleasure to have you here talking about these things.

00;35;53;11 - 00;35;59;11
Yeah, thanks, Chris. And I really enjoy, you know, getting the feedback from the community as there as our listener base grows.

00;36;00;04 - 00;36;03;25
Yeah. So give us feedback. All righty. One, keep moving forward.

Why should I invest my time in it? Who is this person and what is expected of me? Communicating for impact is our topic today and we cover the importance of recognizing the things we should focus on to bring value to others. We all may relate to the challenges we face when we’re trying to influence others. As we mentioned in our previous podcast regarding relationships, one of the most important steps we can take is to prepare. Being mindful of our purpose, what we want from each interaction, and what do others need to commit to our requests.

 

Listen in as we cover the basics on steps to consider for becoming an asset to others through communication.

 

We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve.

 

David Cross @MrDBCross on X

 

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Episode Transcript:

 

00;00;08;00 - 00;00;29;01
You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS, chief information security officer within Oracle.

00;00;29;07 - 00;00;47;06
Why should I invest my time in it? Who is this person and what is expected of me? Communicating for impact is our topic today, and we cover the importance of recognizing the things we should focus on to bring value to others. We all may relate to the challenges we face when we're trying to influence others. And as we mentioned before in our previous podcast regarding relationships.

00;00;47;10 - 00;01;04;08
One of the most important steps we can take is to prepare. Being mindful of our purpose and what we want from each interaction is to see what others need to commit to our requests. Listen in as we cover the basics on steps to consider for becoming an asset to others through communication, we have all we need to become the person we want to be.

00;01;04;09 - 00;01;23;11
Let's remember how to connect with others when sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn David, what's happening?

00;01;23;28 - 00;01;30;10
Chris, I've been waiting for you because I've no patience when it comes to doing these podcasts, so here we are.

00;01;30;21 - 00;01;45;18
I appreciate your patience. That's actually a form of what we're going to talk about today to say I'm sorry I'm late. You now say something to the end of thank you for your patience. Communicating for impact. That's what we're talking about today.

00;01;46;10 - 00;02;07;01
It's a big topic is very, very important. Right. And certainly one of the things that I've kind of stressed over the years and been one of my my major attributes is right. Is communication right. And going back to my days at Microsoft. Right. They had to think we program the Bill Gates and I spent spend a lot of time on it.

00;02;07;01 - 00;02;26;28
But I actually Bill Big Gates every year we do these things. We papers. In one year, I was awarded one of the top 30 papers of the year to Bill Gates. And what was it about? It was all about success in a distributed teams and the success that I found after my experience working overseas as an expat was it's all about communication.

00;02;27;05 - 00;02;35;09
That is how you can make a team successful. That's how you can be successful. And it's one of the most important things that people forget about, especially even in the high tech industry.

00;02;36;01 - 00;03;03;18
Yeah, that's a good point. I think it's one of those things taken for granted where we often think that one would assume, you know, what I'm talking about, and that's based off of, again, perception based reality PR or PR. I guess is a nice little acronym, but maybe trademark that I think a lot of what plays into that is there's an assumption right out of the gate and we we draw these conclusions based off of those assumptions from some reference.

00;03;04;03 - 00;03;31;12
Right. Were you recalling an experience that you've had to say, I'm speaking with the senior vice president today? I assume he knows what I'm what I'm talking about. So I'll start with X or I'm I'm guessing she's heard what I've what I've come to talk about. So I'll start with, you know, this. And we and we conclude these things and we approach oftentimes approach the situation with that assumption.

00;03;32;05 - 00;03;57;12
And there's a disconnect. I mean, there's often a disconnect because we also have to, you know, introduce these these phrases of, you know, well, let's take a step back. You know, these trendy phrases that people saying, well, if you're getting to that point, it's probably safe to say that you could have done it differently, probably even say you could have done it better if you stop assuming that people in the roles that they're in know what it is that you're trying to achieve.

00;03;58;27 - 00;04;28;23
I think you're spot on. And certainly I think your favorite character in Seinfeld, Kramer, says, like, you never assume, right? I'm not going to draw it on a board. Y you never assume right? But we remember that. And I think it's actually one of the relevant challenges, especially now that we're operating electronically and virtually right you know, working from home, working remotely, email slack teams, those type of things, is that it's easy to assume that your target of communication has the full context that you do.

00;04;29;06 - 00;04;35;04
But that's actually one of the biggest mistakes and risks yeah.

00;04;35;24 - 00;04;52;23
And there's a process. So in the, in that you've mentioned that you have the 30 papers, you, you had one, but can you maybe walk us through some of the things you did to prepare and through through your experiences to be able to kind of narrow down how do you start to think about communicating for impact?

00;04;53;13 - 00;05;19;16
So one of the things I learned about especially distributed teams, certainly here at Oracle and Google, Microsoft, all the company's been at right is we're very distributed. It's we're not one side Right. And a big part of being successful from a leadership perspective, you know, from an engagement perspective, from, you know, from a good operational perspective is about communication and so I go back to my days of high school drama.

00;05;20;12 - 00;05;56;05
It is that, well, you have to announce CAA, take your word and exaggerate your emotions when on the stage now because otherwise people may miss what you're trying to say. But it applies to business as well is so that you actually need to overcommunicate, especially in a distributed world. What I did and I learned many years ago this may be go back and to be, you know, almost like gosh, almost 15 years ago I write a weekly mail.

00;05;56;23 - 00;06;06;10
It's called that weekly dossier. It's not a newsletter. It's not a status mail because what do people do with newsletters and status matters? Chris, what do you do when you see one.

00;06;07;08 - 00;06;08;25
To that have a.

00;06;08;25 - 00;06;09;13
Tendency.

00;06;09;13 - 00;06;10;06
To ignore it?

00;06;10;06 - 00;06;33;09
Yeah, exactly. That's why it's called the dossier. Now, what I do for all my teams is for my team, for other groups that I work with, you know, stakeholders and things like that. I write a weekly mail, same format, same time every Friday I send it out. It's got news, it's got the information, it's got decisions. What the team is doing, it builds this musical rhythm, the drumbeat with everyone.

00;06;33;10 - 00;06;54;02
So they always know what's going on. And people ask, David, What's going on with X? Or Did you make a decision on why? I always have one answer. Did you read the dossier? And then people almost get addicted to this. And it's very, very important, especially in these distributed environments, and how you can build this rhythm and connection using communication that everyone can rely upon.

00;06;54;07 - 00;07;01;11
And it's amazing of the impact that you can have about how effective you can be. And it's all about communication.

00;07;02;17 - 00;07;27;04
It is and even then, right? So it's kind of breaking it down. So credibility, I think, plays a part in that. Right? And so we joked a little bit about newsletter, but maybe not, but if you're receiving something from somebody, you know, it becomes now a value proposition is what I'm receiving from somebody a from somebody that I find to be a value to me and there's levels to that.

00;07;27;04 - 00;08;03;24
And then it's saying, well, if it is a box check. Yep. And you say, well, what is it? Then again, the content now is, you know, you, you associate it the value and say, well, is this something that I'm going to invest in reading? So we talk to you and I talk. The last episode that you and I got together on was about relationships and we and we blew through a bunch of different scenarios that established now a point to where, you know, you individual with other individuals or a group of people have established a certain level of understanding with each other form relationship, the type of relationship matters.

00;08;03;24 - 00;08;35;22
Well, if the type of relationship is allowing you to now find each other to be credible or bringing some value, then you would invest in that. And I think that's part of this other effect of communication is the investment. Do I want to invest time in what is being delivered? So have you ever experienced in anything that you've done, David, where you thought that you had that level of understanding with the relationship to be able to communicate like that and you found it to be different than what you had expected?

00;08;36;11 - 00;09;02;21
Absolutely. I think this is, you know, coming back to our are a note about assuming things, right? Is if you fire off a communication, whether it's verbal or an email, a slack message, those type of things, is that in sometimes when it's virtual or electronic, you're maybe not you may not be receiving the indicators is how you're communicating when is being received right?

00;09;02;29 - 00;09;28;26
Is it being understood? Is it actually being perceived the wrong way? Are you offending someone and this is one of the challenges as well with communication. It's not just about the sending. It's also the receiving and understanding that and this is important that you need to ask is did did I send makes sense. Did is the information I'm providing of value to you?

00;09;30;09 - 00;10;00;15
Is it do you have any feedback? Right. In communication? And I think it's when we're in person, we have the visual clues and other things. It's much easier to understand oh, it's clearly my communication is a value and being received warmly or no, I'm created a problem. And I think that's one of the things you always have to check are in different types of virtual and electronic communication is you may not have that asynchronous or that, you know, the dual, you know, kind of feedback loop yep.

00;10;00;28 - 00;10;32;14
You touched on it, I think, and thanks for introducing that. It's the reading room. So, you know, assumptions, presumptions, and implications, you know, there's some point where we're going to we're going to create a truth for ourselves for whatever reason, in order to make us feel confident and comfortable or to to convince us that there's something else that's needing to shift or pay attention to how we invest in that thought now comes with, you know, being able to understand why, why, why am I doing this?

00;10;32;14 - 00;11;02;16
Why? Well, first of all, why am I communicating? Second is what's my intention or what am I expecting to get out of that communication? And then the next thing is, well, during that communication or that interaction, whether it's the visual, right, whether you're on video or in person, the body language, the environment, you know, there's subtle hints that you can understand based off of being more skilled at recognizing those those alterations in body language and visual aids.

00;11;02;16 - 00;11;28;28
Right. You know, you have to you have to learn what those could indicate. And then then a verbal component to where now like old school stuff where you're on the phone, you can't see anything. You now be connected to the audible component. And the thing about telephony You know, the the roles in which people have live in live in day to day through the phone where they have hundreds of calls a day.

00;11;29;11 - 00;12;08;04
Those are probably the most skilled at being able to recognize how the call is going from that, those putting those reps in to know how am I seeing or how am I hearing something shift and know what to say next. So when when you go through your examples, there's a clear indicator that something didn't go as expected What are some of the elements that now you can incorporate or the skills that you can understand that you either need or maybe emphasize on how to pivot from an expectation when you made that assumption that there was value on the receiving end, but it doesn't appear that it's being received as intended.

00;12;09;00 - 00;12;39;21
Great question. I think one of the things, Chris, is that you're saying being a great communicator means you're a great listener. And I think coming back to your exact point, especially when we don't have the the visual clue sometimes. Right, in just audio. Now, I'll come back to your question in just a moment here. But first, I want to say that coming back to relationships, like you and I know each other very well and we can detect and you know, when there's a change of voice or tone in our voice, because we know it.

00;12;39;21 - 00;12;59;21
Sure. Because we've got a strong relationship. But it's much harder when you don't have a relationship with someone and you don't have visual clues, your only audio. It can be much more difficult. And this is sometimes why people say doing a zoom call or other things, you really want to encourage doing visuals so that you can get to know each other a little bit better because you don't have as much context now coming back to you.

00;12;59;22 - 00;13;18;18
Your other question is being a great communicator. When I say this, being a great listener and this is where questions come into play is if you're if you're expressing you have an unknown audience or an audience you don't have a strong relationship with, or the full context is that you may share information, but then you ask questions right.

00;13;18;18 - 00;13;39;29
And listen, because sometimes you want to say, did did I make sense in what I just said? Does that fact Is that the same fact to your understanding? And you're asking questions and gives you an opportunity to listen, to understand how is the communication being received? Is it coming around with it coming across correctly and those type of things?

00;13;40;26 - 00;14;09;01
You said something right there, the implied self-awareness. So I feel like maybe there's a subset that before you're able to ask the questions, the self-awareness that plays a part, the emotional intelligence that plays a part in recognizing what you're good at. Let's talk a little bit about that really quickly is when who says you're a good communicator? How do you how do you come to realize whether or not you're a good communicator?

00;14;09;26 - 00;14;34;29
Well, you know, it's very thought provoking. I think we in some ways you're a good communicator saying that is then that is when you have lots of listeners and lots of people asking for you to communicate. In some ways, I could say that. Well, I must be doing something. Okay. If I'm having, you know, lots of people sign up to receive my dossier because it's an opt in if no one is signing up to receive it.

00;14;35;00 - 00;14;48;02
And then I'm like, hmm, my communication, it may be faulty or had zero value or doing something wrong. And then you can ask those type of questions So that's very Thought-Provoking, Chris.

00;14;49;00 - 00;15;18;10
Well, thank you. I think it comes from what what you now just again, you're leading us down the path, right? So it goes maybe as Sekulic comes back to who's invested in listening, who is coming to you for help, who is coming to you to ask this questions? Who's coming to you to engage? And if if you can now do a risk assessment and then realize at some point there's got to be some switch that flip to say no.

00;15;18;12 - 00;15;42;06
Maybe a common reality. Right. Somebody might resonate with this. I do it. I mean, it resonates with me because oftentimes I'll reflect and say, hey, I think I'm underutilized or hey, I think I'm not being X, you know, whatever I'm realizing that there's something that isn't making me as busy as maybe I should be or as I think I should be.

00;15;42;22 - 00;16;06;03
I think that's the catalyst to understand. Well, is it a meeting or is it a something else thing? Because the questions that you're saying once you've know, say, graduated to that point to understand that there's questions needing to be asked. I think you have to ask those to yourself first and then you can now qualify yourself to go out and seek understanding.

00;16;07;03 - 00;16;28;13
You know, what is it exactly that I'm trying to get from the things that exist or don't exist? You know, what's the effect of my communication method? What's the effect of my message? All those types of things. And then asking the right questions. So no sidetrack from from the path you were taking us. But how do you how do you come to learn the right questions to ask?

00;16;28;26 - 00;16;30;05
You know, you gave some examples.

00;16;31;03 - 00;16;58;20
You know, the right questions to ask is I think is really about validating or expressing your you know, what you are communicating in a way that people will answer. Right. So in some ways, if you make a statement, right, it's about asking a question about that fact or that information. Right. And that will that really, I would say is false, but it encourages someone to answer saying that.

00;16;59;08 - 00;17;23;01
Does everyone agree that, you know, this this data is correct and that will it will drive. It's like the art of influence that will drive an answer or, you know, and you want to almost you want to state things in a way in a question that that people will want to answer. You know, it's almost trying to be controversial.

00;17;23;01 - 00;17;31;04
Sometimes, right. In that really helps you to draw out that that that feedback that you're looking for. Got it.

00;17;31;09 - 00;17;59;26
So so finding a way and it's I believe that what you're saying is implying that there's an interest. So there's people that are invested to be around each other in order to have the existence you know, without getting overly philosophical is to say you're here. So there seems to be a willingness to be here. So to make it interesting is the types of questions where they have an interest in answering because they're invested in I guess the outcome is the best the best way to say it.

00;17;59;26 - 00;18;24;10
So I mean, I'm thinking conflict resolution, problem solving, brainstorming. You know, at some point people are interested in getting to the bottom of it to come together, which I think is the ultimately the goal is to bring people together to do something, whether it's to have fun or, you know, you know, read the newsletter or the dossier or to solve problems So what is off the top of your head?

00;18;24;10 - 00;18;30;03
What would be a good book that can help us shine light on a path that we can take to learn?

00;18;30;10 - 00;18;54;26
Well, I mean, back to this this session, you know, one is the art of influence, right? And the art of art of influence really provides all these techniques mainly about communication in that how you can get what we say is reciprocity, right? Is you want to do things in a way that forces someone in a respectful, friendly way to return.

00;18;54;26 - 00;19;19;25
Right. Or to respond. Right. And that's a big part of communication, is that when you get people to respond, you know, that they're understanding it or they're accepting it, they're going to value it. The other book I'd like to recommend is, you know, Jerry Weisman presenting to Win. Right. And it's really about the art of telling a story, because sometimes I think people are, you know, can communicate.

00;19;19;25 - 00;19;31;26
But you need to often tell a story, especially when you're trying to have impact. And there's a lot of art and science in that as well. So those are my two recommended recommendations.

00;19;32;15 - 00;19;53;03
That's good. Those are good ones. I've heard of both of them. I think I dabbled in the first one, but the book, the book that I'm referencing in a lot of times in connecting dots, that comes by way of influence. It's a book, The New Science of Leading Change. And there's I think there's a couple I don't I don't remember there being just one author.

00;19;53;03 - 00;20;13;07
I think there's a couple of them that work together on it. But influence are the new science of leading change and in that is connecting dots. So as we're talking about communicating effectively or communicating for impact. You talked about it being a being a good listener includes a lot of different ways of doing that. How you demonstrate doing that.

00;20;13;08 - 00;20;54;29
I mean, sitting there, you know, some skimming off the top of what some suggestions would include would be to, you know, the eye contact. If you're, you know, in front of somebody, you know, the nodding the body language would interpret or try and be translated and assumed to be, oh, they're engaged, they're paying attention. Are there other methods that will kind of go down a level of depth to where you can be credible in being an active listener is, you know, reciting or summarizing something that, you know, so what you're saying David, is this and then I repeat what it is a summary that I've heard you say in a way that resonates with me.

00;20;55;09 - 00;21;26;11
And then it kind of the things that you're looking for when you set it reciprocity. So now I'm relaying it or volleying it back to you, like, this is what I heard. This is how I interpret it. Did I get that right? That is why I bring up influence because it's connecting dots. And I think that's what we're talking about is in the dance that we do of communication, whether it's written or verbal or visual, whatever it is, we're saying something It's it's being able to now reciprocate the level of effort that goes into what's happening.

00;21;26;26 - 00;21;49;28
And we walk away with something of value. And in my way, what I what I love to do is connect the dots and see how critical thinking plays a part in communicating for impact because now we're talking about one thing, but maybe it's now connecting to other things that we've talked about in the past or we should be talking about as as somebody in your position.

00;21;50;08 - 00;21;51;13
How important is that?

00;21;51;23 - 00;22;14;12
It's very, very important trait is that because of often we say we can say we have a loud voice that needs to have lots of impact. If you don't have the validation, you don't have the adoption and understanding, right. That means things can go wrong and awry very, very quickly and very, very, you know, in a very bad way.

00;22;14;13 - 00;22;42;22
Right. And we can see that throughout the world. Where someone says one thing and intended another. And really, well, now they everything's gone wrong. Right. And the perception the choices, the decisions, you know, can go completely off track. And that's why it's so important, I think, to sometimes even test your communication when it's going to be when it's needed to have major impact.

00;22;43;01 - 00;22;49;02
Major results is sometimes you may need to test it before you deploy it into production, if you will.

00;22;49;16 - 00;23;10;21
I like the flow because as you were talking about that, I was thinking, well, what happens next and the test or the impact or the effect comes in, what happens next? So, you know, we we talk about things. You know, we prepare to talk about things. And then through that, through that action, we learn. We're supposed to learn things, right?

00;23;10;21 - 00;23;30;15
I mean, that's the you know, maybe it's an unwritten expectation that, you know, as you go through things, you have lessons learned, hopefully, or mindful enough to appreciate what it is that's being learned or as a possibility, an opportunity to be learned so you can grow so you can get to know each other better so you can do all of these types of things.

00;23;30;15 - 00;24;06;24
But some of the elements also include outside of that moment. So after the newsletter or the dossier sent, after the engagement, after the Zoom meeting, after the on site meeting, after the face to face interaction, whether it's at a coffee shop, or somewhere else, how important is in this scheme of communicating? How important is what happens next? And when do you think the intervals are that you engage with others as you communicate, as the relationship grows?

00;24;08;08 - 00;24;38;16
Well, in some ways, though, I, as I was hinting at earlier, is I try to keep it a regular rhythm, like saying that part of it just like the newspaper or newscast or other things is you want to have a regular rhythm that's very consistent because then people can bet on it, they can count on it, but also it can give you the opportunity to make corrections, corrections or adjustments or pivots so that, for example, if you're if it's a random communication like oh boy, I made a mistake, like, all right, how are you going to correct that?

00;24;38;17 - 00;25;05;07
You know? And then it becomes very obvious and, you know, sometimes damaging in itself versus no, you can always update every week, like, oh, there's been a slight change, but everyone knows that they'll get those updates and that regular format, regular timing, and it's easy to make the errata or the changes or corrections. And that's one of my recommendations is build the rhythm, build the cadence of the music and people will align with that drumbeat.

00;25;06;03 - 00;25;39;23
That that's that's not only a one of the most relevant statements we've made at the moment, considering this is a podcast where listenership, probably as a result of the rhythm in which we deliver these, is an influence on how much activity we can report through the analytics. How often are people listening? Well, the more consistent you are in delivering the more of a repetition, the more repetition that gets into somebody in an expectation.

00;25;39;23 - 00;25;49;19
And so the randomness, I think, is one of those qualifying words that says if it feels random, they'll perceive it as that and probably take less interest. Would you agree?

00;25;50;27 - 00;26;03;26
100% right. If you can bet on something and that's going to be there, you you embrace it, you, you take it on versus it being random. Like I don't know if it's ever going to come back. Why should invest my time in it?

00;26;04;22 - 00;26;29;15
There it is good. All right. So to to summarize. So, you know, communicating for impact, it involves many things, but much of it has to do with an interest and then withdraws the investment. And that comes by way of oversimplifying. It comes by way of being credible or somebody finding value in it, whatever it may be and whomever it comes from.

00;26;30;06 - 00;26;50;08
And then it has to do with the engagement component of saying you know, are you are you listening to what I'm saying? Are you hearing what I'm not saying? Or is there is there an element of where you seem to demonstrate an understanding of me as a as an individual expressing to you what it is that I think we should be talking about?

00;26;50;08 - 00;27;09;19
And then how do you demonstrate the understanding in that comes in many ways, many forms. But, you know, the frequency in which the engagement occurs, I think is as a is a key point, because if you want to keep the momentum going and be relevant with it to respect the interaction, then you'd want to find that rhythm. And that could be different.

00;27;09;20 - 00;27;26;21
It depends on the whole ideal situation. You know, it could be hours, days, months, weeks. It does matter. It just it's relevant to whatever the situation is. And in closing. David, what do you think we can do for next steps to test it, as you say?

00;27;27;12 - 00;27;48;20
I think one of the things that everyone, you know, needs to think about is what is your rhythm? Right. And because some people will be daily, some people weekly, some people are monthly, but I think is build their rhythm right. And within that rhythm, then you say just like everything is like, okay, what is your development cycle? What is your test cycle?

00;27;48;20 - 00;28;04;15
You know, what is your feedback cycle? You know? You know, your release cycle, right? Beta, traditional project management and communication is exactly that. Even though I'd say it's small. What you mean after project management, if you really think about it, when especially things of impact, you want to have a full cycle.

00;28;05;01 - 00;28;33;09
Got it. Spoken like a true developer. I'll take a different twist and just say how you make them feel. You know, so if the test for me and the challenge from all four meet all of you, myself included. David, do you find somebody today that you haven't reached out to check in on them and try to uplift how they feel, try to be a value to them today and then see how you can collaborate in a way that makes a difference in their lives as well as yours?

00;28;34;00 - 00;28;36;03
Fair to say it is.

00;28;36;25 - 00;28;57;26
I think things for summarize are really well. I hope people get some value from this and I'm thinking for our next episode, you know, we're talking about relationships. We talk about communication. But Chris, you brought up earlier and I think we should have a next episode on this about visibly witty, right? The people. You can be the greatest technical person or the greatest, you know, engineer, the greatest, you know, craftsman.

00;28;58;03 - 00;29;08;18
But if you have no visibility then how can you be successful? And then it comes down to relationships and communication. So I think that should be our next episode.

00;29;10;04 - 00;29;20;10
Time. Stay tuned. Same Bat Channel. No. All right, David. No, I think that's on the docket for next. And on that note, keep moving forward.

We can’t do it alone. Relationships are important. There isn’t much else one could say that counters that. In this episode David and I touch on the basics of why we should all work towards understanding the considerations of why we need to develop different types of relationships, how we may approach others with compassion, empathy, and purpose, and what we should include in our toolbox to recognize specific feelings that may occur during this process.

 

We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve.

 

Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family.

 

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Episode Transcript:

00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;29
You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS, chief information security officer within Oracle.

00;00;29;10 - 00;00;52;01
We can't do it alone, and we know relationships are important. There isn't much else one could say that counters that in this episode. David and I touch on the basics of why we should all work towards understanding the considerations of why we need to develop different types of relationships, how we may approach others with compassion, empathy, and purpose, and what we should include in our toolbox to recognize the specific feelings that may occur during this process.

00;00;52;01 - 00;01;13;18
We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn David Cross.

00;01;13;18 - 00;01;14;14
How's it going, sir?

00;01;15;09 - 00;01;23;12
It has been too long, Chris, that I've been dying to get us going and our next episode is on the podcast and I know the audience has been waiting for us.

00;01;24;09 - 00;01;26;18
We had to take some time. You did a little bit traveling, did you?

00;01;27;14 - 00;01;49;00
You know, I am David Cross Travelers dot com. I do love my travels. And hey, my last big trip, right, was to France and I went to Normandy in Omaha Beach. So definitely check it out. And I will say, as the veteran, right, it's an amazing experience. And I was even able to conduct the, you know, the ceremony at the cemetery that is there.

00;01;49;00 - 00;02;00;16
It Omaha Beach or the Normandy. Right. It's quite an honor. And it's something if you ever have the opportunity, I think as a veterans, it's kind of a place we must all visit that How long do.

00;02;00;16 - 00;02;10;09
You plan that trip? That sounds like something that you had to spend some time thinking about. How are you going to how are you going to go and how long are you going to spend time? Was it much thought or was it last minute?

00;02;11;11 - 00;02;27;02
No, I thought about it for a year. It's one of those things that I didn't make the deal with my wife that she had to visit Paris for the first time. But that I get to visit Normandy for the first time. So we made the deal. And like I said, you know, it's all about relationships and thinking about that.

00;02;27;02 - 00;02;29;11
And, you know, sometimes there's like little give and take.

00;02;29;25 - 00;02;50;07
A little compromise. That's a good segue way. And don't think that I just let you slide over that shameless plug of David Cross travels. That was a good one. You didn't say your blog one yet, though, so we'll wait for that. Relationships. Yep. So, folks, you know, we've been talking about lately a lot of the things that go on.

00;02;50;07 - 00;03;22;23
Right. And so we can look at it from different perspectives, you know, the importance of relationships. Why do you have. And I think both David and I in our own ways, independent of each other. David just alluded to that here. But, you know, you have you have you have some categories that you're split relationships up in to say, oh, it's a work relationship or it's my, you know, my circle of five where it's my closest friends or my closest The board of directors, you know, there's types of relationships that we're going to we're going to talk through today.

00;03;23;11 - 00;03;42;08
And and maybe just kind of well, we're just going to talk about them because the value is relative to the perception of you and how and how you can understand things for you. Maybe some nuggets, maybe not. But it's just one of those banter podcasts for this episode. So, David, I don't know, where do you want to start?

00;03;43;06 - 00;03;58;21
I don't know, Chris. There's always, you know, as being our veteran podcast or even rights. I trust veterans. But I think an element let's think about the relationship that we've built, you know, from the military. Right. And how that affects our lives, how it affects our relationships and going forward. Why don't we start there?

00;03;59;12 - 00;04;21;28
Yeah, it's a good one. Let's talk about you. Me, right. So you're you're a senior vice president in cybersecurity. Or in security? You and I met a couple of years ago, not through our own doing. We were put together based off of the relationship we had with our passion, which is veteran affiliated focus. And then through MAVEN, military affiliated, better employee network.

00;04;23;10 - 00;04;45;25
We have roles and positions. And so my role to help lead that with a strong team. You were also brought in from an executive sponsor to support us in the in that capacity. And so from that couple of years ago, we drove some some solid initiatives that set a good foundation for others to now continue on with relationship building.

00;04;45;25 - 00;05;07;07
Right. We we've given a good ground for relationship building in the network and then yours in mind evolved into, well, what can you and I can do further to further that which leads to this podcast. And we've randomly, not randomly, but you know, at certain intervals we'll keep in touch and check in and say, what are we doing?

00;05;07;08 - 00;05;23;07
Let's do this. And like today was somewhat spontaneous, you know, but I didn't that start with expectations maybe. You know, clearly we were introduced I didn't have an expectation of meeting you. I had an expectation on the role that you were in that evolved into other things. What about you?

00;05;24;18 - 00;05;40;15
Well, Chris, I think I think that I did have an expectation to a degree is saying here I am joining a veterans related group. Right. In that expectation, what can I expect from you? Right. And so that I said, well, we were not in the service together. We're not in the same unit together. We're not in the same war together yet.

00;05;40;16 - 00;05;59;10
But we're both veterans. Right. And so an expectation of what are your principles right? How are we going to operate? Right. The natural sign, I think, is just like when our active duty, you know, even your Army, Navy, Air Force, we know how to operate in that. You now have this great baseline of how we start and operate.

00;05;59;20 - 00;06;09;27
And that's a major advantage I think sometimes veterans have with each other and others are members of the service and it builds a relationships to the next level and different relationships.

00;06;11;17 - 00;06;31;19
Yeah, because so so it so it comes with the expectations and if you have a significant other a partner or a friend, a close friend or family member, you know, we we hear this often is like no expectations. You know, I'm I'm with you. No expectations. There are some and you talked a little bit about the value systems and things like that.

00;06;31;19 - 00;07;07;19
There's some things that are just assumed and taken for granted. That generally speaking, we don't want to hold somebody to to our perspective. And so we we hopefully allow others to be themselves and that's part of the relationship, the good with the bad, you know, if you're going to use an example. And but when you're brought together unexpectedly, you know, that openness to to have that flow begin of the dialog, the connections, you know, in this case, you mentioned the commonality stripping away the other factors that were less important at the moment.

00;07;07;23 - 00;07;25;26
You said, well, we're veterans. We don't have a lot of these other things in common, but we do have that and that's where we'll start. And I think that's the one of the key elements as we kind of just go through the idea of what a relationship definition could mean to everybody is commonality. What do we have in common?

00;07;27;01 - 00;07;44;00
What do you think some of the challenges are in getting to that part to where you can strip away the other factors of wants and needs from an individual perspective and saying, I want I want to talk to that person because of whatever, or I need to talk to that person for whatever. Or you just bump into somebody and you didn't want to talk to them.

00;07;44;00 - 00;07;47;29
You didn't need to talk to me. Did you expect it? What do you think some of the caveats are?

00;07;49;07 - 00;08;05;19
Great question. You know, I think an element is that sometimes you think about it, it's like what's the icebreaker? How do I get my foot in the door? You know, how do I open up the conversation? And sometimes when you don't know somebody, you don't know actually how to do the opening, right? Sometimes that's what things adventure's like.

00;08;05;23 - 00;08;23;13
Okay, we have some commonalities. I can start with something. I could say, hey, you're in the army. Great. Now, I was like, Oh, what unit were you in? Oh, great. Instantly, you've got a starting point with knowing nothing else, right? Other times you've been meeting that. Well, let's say we're not even we're not veterans like. All right, Chris, what do you do?

00;08;23;13 - 00;08;44;27
Right. Okay, you do you watch movies, you know, it gets awkward, uncomfortable, right? Because you're guessing what to do. And I think part of it as people is, is maybe sometimes just like networking or trying to get a job, do some research. Well, is Chris on LinkedIn? Oh, is he on other social media oh, he's a fan of movies.

00;08;44;27 - 00;08;53;26
Ah. Oh, no, he's a golfer. Oh, great. Now I have an opening to Chris and you go golfing this past weekend. Wow. What an opener. And that's what it's all about.

00;08;55;16 - 00;09;29;05
Yeah. You learn, you learn something about somebody so that the idea that you can, you know, one, be mindful enough to realize that you might have to do put some effort into the beginning. Right. And nothing is easy, I guess it's safe to say is starting a conversation until you practice, right? You have to kind of do it frequently and often in similar scenarios to build the confidence to be able to know that you're going into it unexpected in the outcomes, but just trying something and then going from there.

00;09;29;05 - 00;09;53;29
So fluidity, I think is another factor that weighs into that. So you started it, you had an initiation, now you started the conversation and being fluid on the on the response to now what that is what are some of the things that happen in, in, in your space in doing that? Because you're in your role, in your professional role, it's is it become somewhat of an expectation that you do networking of too often?

00;09;55;04 - 00;10;12;29
Yeah, it's very, very important I think is certainly in the security space. And my role is really to be able to make a connection with customers. I think one of the things I certainly found here at the company is that you need to build a community because especially it comes to security. It's about trust and so how can you trust someone when it's opaque?

00;10;13;09 - 00;10;36;25
You need to have transparency and openness. You need to have a connection. And so part of it is like you may have to start building those connections and building a community, you know, and starting the conversation sometimes can be challenging. But that's how the security community is successful is by building the connections, by sharing information. And I think that's very similar to what you're describing with relationships, right?

00;10;37;06 - 00;10;47;17
I think, of course, you think about recruiting, right? You know, how do you get someone that is maybe not interested in your company to even have a conversation with you? What's your trick?

00;10;48;21 - 00;11;15;17
Yeah, that's that's that's a good one. It's something that's acquired. I pause there because it's a hard it's a hard question, right? It can be you can easily respond to that with something because you have an incentive. And so now your goal. So you're if you're if you're goal minded and you're you orientate to say, well, here's what I'm going to get out of it in that specific capacity, then there's your driver.

00;11;15;17 - 00;11;48;14
And now you know that you have to do something regardless because you can't you can't get what you need to earn unless you do. So I think there's I'm going to answer that in to two ways. One in a recruiting element, right? Or when you're trying to get something from something you have a motive. The thing, though, that I can say with with all honesty is the transparency and the sincerity manifest itself in the things that you do before you even say anything.

00;11;48;23 - 00;12;27;27
Right. Your approach to body language, just your general being, I think. And this it's maybe weird to say, but I think it's just a matter of, you know, some people will see that and immediately just not be interested in beginning the conversation. Let, let, let alone reciprocating anything that you're going to try to do. So I think what wins is realizing that part, which is the second component is getting getting yourself to understand how to be sincere and genuine in what you're trying to do for the right reasons, because I think that's the language that you can't necessarily speak verbally unless you share it.

00;12;28;10 - 00;12;49;17
And then it then it becomes then and then there's a risk there because then it's not it's probably less humble if you say it versus just be it. So I think, you know, the way the way that I think about approaching people to want them to come be a part of something, the tribal component, which I think we all want in some capacity, we want to belong to something.

00;12;49;22 - 00;13;04;28
That's the connection. And I think that's the thing that gets me to understand more about how to do something is because it's going to be that connection that you talked about earlier, what you call it a commonality. But there's a kind of a human connection that allows us to be at least for that moment, interested in the same things.

00;13;05;07 - 00;13;23;07
I have something that I want to share with you because I think it's good for you and we can we can we should talk about it and then that becomes the second component is because now that you have that engagement, you know, you certainly need to hold the conversation to be able to communicate effectively, to share the goodness that you want to share.

00;13;24;12 - 00;13;40;19
Yes. Let me build upon that. Going back to I think our relationship is a we're veterans and ultimately is in the military to say, what's the mission what's the target? And so when I didn't know you, I said, Chris, what's our mission? What are we going to do? Right. Once we know that, like, okay, we have a common goal, we're going to go after it.

00;13;41;05 - 00;13;59;11
Now let's put it aside. We're not the veterans. We're not military saying, all right, what is the person's mission? Might be a little hard or just really figure out what's in it for them when you understand what's in it for them. What are they looking for? And that's the target. That's what you're going after. And understanding that right is really what it's all about.

00;13;59;24 - 00;14;07;08
And when you do that, then you can really align and build a relationship because you may help them achieve that mission, that goal, that target.

00;14;08;18 - 00;14;29;00
Yeah. What's in it for them? That's good. So that's that's a simplified way of sharing the same idea. So that's what that's what David's good about when we have this relationship. So how do you how do you understand that? What's in it for them? You got to be curious. And I think that's the other element is at some point you're going to be more curious than not, whereas before you're probably not looking at it.

00;14;29;00 - 00;14;52;12
The mindfulness is not the thing. It's part of your life because of whatever reason, you just you just focus on different things. I think it's a life stage thing. So when you're curious about that, that interest in seeing what's in it for them, you have to learn what it is, right? And that's the engagement part, right? So what I get excited about is being able to engage with people just for the pure, simple fact of it's an engagement that's it.

00;14;52;12 - 00;15;24;01
I don't I no longer have an ulterior motive unless it's driven towards an observation that screams to me that maybe in this interaction they could benefit from something else. I know I benefit from it. I already accepted the fact that I'm going to walk away better feeling good about talking to somebody else. Because you have to. Right. In order to feel like you're a part of something, you have to it's one of those social animals that you just naturally do.

00;15;24;03 - 00;15;43;29
There's variations can only be careful here, variations of that, the levels of intensity and how you do that. You know, I mean, we can talk about how you're, you know, extroverted, introverted and all these personality types and things like that. There's certain levels to that. I'm just saying for you, how it makes you feel is also just as important because that keeps driving you towards wanting to do it.

00;15;45;04 - 00;15;59;22
So, Chris, this makes me want to ask you a question about is what you're describing. Isn't that just like paying it forward? Right. Is like whether you're trying to help someone connect with someone, are you just really the real the principle of you pay it forward because you never know in the future when you may need something in return?

00;16;01;04 - 00;16;26;03
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Always looking behind you and around you to see if there's something you can do for others. Absolutely. I mean, ultimately, that's that's most of where the joy comes is doing for others. But it's also having the understanding that, you know, when you do that, you're actually doing something for yourself. But the key is to not get caught up in how it benefits you.

00;16;26;03 - 00;16;34;06
I think that's the trick and understanding that paying it forward shouldn't surround and how you feel about it as much as it how it makes others feel.

00;16;35;02 - 00;16;52;20
Absolutely. You know, going back to, you know, what my first job is, I left the military. My first manager is he said, you know, David the most valuable thing you can always do is make other people feel great and other people feel great, make other people great helping them. And because you never know when the time comes, when you need the help, you need the leg up.

00;16;52;20 - 00;17;22;06
Right? You need the army picked up off the ground. Right. And is building up these set of cards over time is is quite enormous. Right. And I think that's what everyone should think about, right? It's not a debt that you're paying. It's actually a credit that you're building. It's quite amazing when the unexpected happens or the unknown happens or an opportunity happens and you realize, oh, my gosh, that person that I helped, you know, five years ago, ten years ago, and I need something there for me.

00;17;22;12 - 00;17;26;29
And they're so willing because they remember what you did for them. And that's what relationships are all about.

00;17;27;27 - 00;17;50;29
Yeah. The people remember how you made them feel. That's certainly an element that that speaks volumes. The you know, the interesting part in all of this I think the underlying factors, everybody needs something from somebody. Right. But if I could say this and have it makes sense, that would be great. You don't have to say it out loud, right?

00;17;50;29 - 00;18;17;16
You don't have to say it. We all need something from somebody. So if we're working and it's a work relationship and I have to go to somebody else, some people will say, you know, don't, don't, don't go to somebody else only when you need something. That's a fair point. Unless that's the type of relationship that you have that it's grown to be that way to where you've already gone through the bumps of building a relationship, forging the relationship in ways that allows that to be the case.

00;18;18;04 - 00;18;52;03
Or you increase the risk of it just being one of those things that now people will avoid. Right? You could be that person that people avoid. You only come to me when you need something and that's it's one of these books that we talk about. That's the taker, right? That's somebody that's a taker. There's giver and taker. So I think there's that that element of humility that goes with that, too, where there's at least a common understanding that how you're going to leverage your relationship with the individual for the type of relationship you have, that it can be that because reality is we all need something from somebody we just don't want to keep.

00;18;52;03 - 00;18;54;14
Like what you're saying, keep taking money out of the bank.

00;18;55;17 - 00;19;26;28
You know, another angle on that is sometimes I think I never want people to fear of being a taker asking for things because I actually one of my observations over many years in the studio space the the high tech space, whatever it is, people are often hesitant to ask for help. They're hesitant to ask a question. And sometimes the I say the weakest person or the people that could could actually be the most successful are the ones that asked for the life ring.

00;19;26;28 - 00;19;41;05
They ask for help. And I think we should encourage that, is that there's the takers that are taking advantage of things. And those are the people that really should be takers because they just need to ask for it, ask for help. And that's how our company can be successful when people help each other.

00;19;41;21 - 00;20;08;12
Yeah, that's a good one. So let's unpack that a little bit. So one mindfulness is key. We've mentioned it a couple of times. Self-awareness from mindfulness, you get the self-awareness of recognizing who those people are and that comes with now a developed skill to be able to recognize how you can help somebody come out of that. Right. And that's what I was kind of inferring earlier, where some people just aren't naturally you know, outgoing.

00;20;08;12 - 00;20;33;09
And so it takes a little nudging. That's, I think, probably built around a lot of what you'd said about trust. Right. And so you know, there's David Brooks had written a book, The Second Mountain, and inside that it's talking about in a relationship and in a related social crisis. And it talks about the loneliness, crisis, distrust, the crisis of meaning and then tribalism.

00;20;33;09 - 00;20;54;02
So there's some elements in here that kind of surround or circle what we're talking about, too, where mental health is a component. You no doubt insecurity or discomfort. You know, there's a lot of folks that that feel like they're going to be in a position when they ask for help. And those are the things. That's why we talk about the circle of trust, right?

00;20;54;02 - 00;21;17;22
The five, five closest individuals that you keep there because it keeps it tight. They know you best. Each one has something that's helping you do something. It's different than the other. It's that kind of a sum of five, if you will, as I've heard some friends call it, that that's a good a good point of saying, you know, how do you recognize when somebody in your relationships is needing something when they're not asking for it?

00;21;19;23 - 00;21;40;29
So kind of building upon the theme here of, you know, our books, because I know our audience love our book recommendations on this month, going to kind of a theme describing here is, you know, people not sure they're you know, maybe not confident in pastor you know, my book of the month recommendation. It was the mastery manual by Robin Sharma.

00;21;41;11 - 00;21;55;00
It's really an amazing book that I highly recommend to everybody in thinking about how do you become to lead? How do you become great right And the mastery manual is is something that I highly recommend to to our audience for this podcast.

00;21;56;20 - 00;22;02;15
Talk a little bit about that. What is that what it's kind of the the Cliff Note version of that.

00;22;04;02 - 00;22;24;07
A big part of it is I think sometimes it's about stepping out. Right. And an element is that you are going to lead, you are going to take charge. Right. You it it's not about being extroverted or introverted, those type of things. It's really about it really kind of everything of setting your goals right is that the element is which I agree with, is like you get up in the morning, right?

00;22;24;07 - 00;22;38;25
Is like, okay, who's the leaders? The people you get up at 5:00 in the morning, and you set your day, you set your schedule. Right. And I think some of the benefits I remember the days of like, yep, when is when is the the roll call wearing and when is the duty section right? 7 a.m. you can't be late.

00;22;39;16 - 00;22;56;05
You're going to get up early. You're going to be prepared for it, giving your uniform all those benefits like David, how how can you be at the top of your game every single day is like, yeah, because I was trained in the military. Right. And it's a big part of it is you have clear goals. You set them down and you go after them, right?

00;22;56;06 - 00;22;59;17
And you build in the structures that you need to achieve that.

00;23;00;24 - 00;23;27;04
Yeah. And so there's some self-actualization that comes inside of that it seems then that, you know, one, you have to figure out what you want to do. There's some of us that still haven't figured out entirely what we want to do. So we're kind of just floating around and then we just, you know, we take opportunities, right? And then we say, well, I don't, I don't know how this is going to turn out, but I'm going to say, yes, and I think that's the other factors.

00;23;27;20 - 00;23;53;01
You know, some of what you're saying is you have to say yes when you're hesitating, when you have doubt. If you've done diligence right. And you're confident enough to say, well, I'm still unsure, but at some point you have to make a move. And so you say yes, and then that would help you be aligned now with outcomes, knowing that that's the self-discovery comes through that exploration after you say yes.

00;23;53;01 - 00;24;18;01
And I think that that's a key element of relationships today. I was having a conversation with one of my friends and she had recommended that I go on LinkedIn and connect with somebody else. And I didn't hesitate. I if you're making the recommendation, I'm going to go do it and I did it. You know, it's, it's a habit that comes, it's formed based off of saying having said yes and the risk assessment, right?

00;24;18;01 - 00;24;35;24
Because you can be risk averse, which is something I learned from David several years ago. On taking you step out of my comfort zone. I consulted with him. I pulled him aside because our relationship was I'm like, hey, you've been doing this, you know, and you have more experience around these areas at this level. What do you think I should do?

00;24;36;11 - 00;24;59;29
And is I the summary is what do it. But we have to remember that sometimes we we need to be risk averse but we don't want to overdo that. So we have to know how we're going to be able to calculate it effectively and then, of course, be ready for what happens after that. And that was one of the greatest advice that I've received from David is, you know, in order to step outside your comfort, you got to say yes.

00;25;00;08 - 00;25;20;09
But you have to understand that the things that happen after that, you're not necessarily going to be able to plan for. So just roll with it enough to be able to understand it and then continue on through it until you're out of it. That way, you can now become more comfortable with making a decision later you're growing.

00;25;21;29 - 00;25;50;07
I think I'm kind of taking this you made me think about it for a minute. That is that we all have relationships and connections, but we also need to nurture them because, you know, over time we never know when's the next time. We may need help, we may need a push, we may need the insights is kind of like we go through phases in our careers or our lives and seeing that of going back and looking at the relationship saying, well, we probably all over time, you know, some of us a little older said 20 years like, oh, I know an expert in this.

00;25;50;07 - 00;26;08;26
I know someone that inspired me in that and when the time comes, you go one, you should nurture and maintain those even if you don't need something yet. But in the future you may. So you also never know. And maybe they need help. They just maybe they're not asking for it. Right? And I think that's a big thing that we should always think about.

00;26;09;02 - 00;26;18;07
Why do you and I, you know, keep our relationship? Right? Because we like we think there's value. We're there. It's great having, you know, your your buddy when the time comes, you've got the backup when you need it.

00;26;19;01 - 00;26;34;08
Yeah, it's a good point. And I like how you said that you never know when somebody else is going to need you. So if you think about that, let's let's ponder this real quick. Do you ever walk in down somewhere, are sitting in your chair? You just you know, doing nothing. You sit in there and then you think of somebody.

00;26;35;14 - 00;26;55;15
I'm always curious as to why that happens. And there's been a time when, you know, I get a phone call and some of us may have had had this happen to you. It's happened to me twice. And I vowed, never have it happen again. And I'm do my best because if it comes up, you answer the phone because you don't know who's on the other end of it.

00;26;55;15 - 00;27;15;17
That's literally a call for help. But the other thing where this intuitiveness for I don't know is called is it instinct or something where you get this feeling that somebody pops into your head or haven't spoken to so and so and so long. I now it's no longer really a question as to what I'm going to do it more often than not because not for everybody.

00;27;15;18 - 00;27;34;01
It's not for everything. More often than not, I even place a value on it, which is limiting. So I'm somewhat of a contradiction, but not I'm saying they popped into my head for a reason. I should reach out. So I do my best to try to do that. It just depends on the mindset I'm in. And sometimes I'm not where I want to be or need to be.

00;27;34;13 - 00;27;54;19
But because of that, that's literally the thing that I'm using similar to that of a phone call saying why I thought of this person. I should I should reach out because I've already told myself I haven't in a while. And I think that's the connection that we can't explain as to how we can check in on people to make sure that we're nurturing the relationships.

00;27;54;19 - 00;28;06;09
Because if you're not physically around them on a constant basis, you don't know when they need you or not because they might not be asking or because they can't. Either way, I like I like what you brought up.

00;28;07;12 - 00;28;30;13
You know, I think in building upon that a little bit is I think there's some challenges that are vague. How many people send holiday cards every year? I think that number is dying or going away, you know, more and more of the years. Right. But at the same time, I still think about well, every year I get a lot of sometimes, whether it's on LinkedIn or other social media or, you know, quick email or a tweet or something that say, hey, David, how's it going?

00;28;30;14 - 00;28;50;24
Hope you as well with you. And you start think if you really think about this, I you know, I'm kind of glad they did that. That means they're maintaining that connection, even though I maybe forgot about it, but I never know when I may need it. Right. So then it makes me think, you know, is maybe I should just do that is kind of having my little things have just keeping that connection warm because you never know.

00;28;51;05 - 00;29;11;17
It may not be tomorrow, I mean, a year from now, maybe ten years from now. But when you keep those warm connections, especially people that it maybe it's ten years ago that you did some great things together. Life changes, right? We've talked about one of our podcast, you the unexpected. You're not aware and you always want to have that whole squad and a whole unit behind you when the time comes.

00;29;12;17 - 00;29;12;27
Yeah.

00;29;13;14 - 00;29;29;13
Now that's that's that's that's the way to think you know it's using the information that you have realizing that you don't have it all. So then you do put some effort into to try to get some more information to say, is it me? What should I be doing? How should I be doing? It? Is that should I do that?

00;29;29;23 - 00;29;54;16
Maybe. I mean, the whole thing is it's in your head. You're thinking about it. What are you going to do about it? And the worst case scenario is you land on saying, I'm going to pick up the phone, I'm going to shoot a text, I'm going to send an email, I'm going to knock on the door. More importantly, with your neighbors, here's the sarcasm with your neighbors, knock on their door, get to know your neighborhood and the community.

00;29;54;16 - 00;30;00;08
I mean, you just redefine what community means and then apply that and get to know everybody around you. I mean, because why not.

00;30;02;03 - 00;30;16;17
Without question, Chris. I mean, things have been quiet for a while, but like the you know, the zombies, we don't know when they're going to show up. And if your neighbors aren't there right now, you know, you can only store so much water, some food and MREs. Chris, I'll leave it at that.

00;30;18;13 - 00;30;20;01
Got it. All right.

00;30;21;12 - 00;30;40;18
So, Chris, you know, I think this has been a really, you know, a great conversation, right? I think is that is we don't know what's going to happen in future. Right. You know, whether it's zombies, you know, whether it's, you know, a climate change, you know, whether it's a change in or jobs. Right. But I think it's about a, you know, thinking about how you build trust in how you build connections.

00;30;40;18 - 00;31;00;21
How you nurture and maintain the bonds that you made over the years. Does as veterans write things about your units in many years ago, you know, reconnect with them, you know, just keep it warm. A very simple, you know, a simple call, a simple email, a message on Facebook, those type of things. But always look at the network.

00;31;01;01 - 00;31;10;23
Paying it forward. Right, is because sometimes the unexpected can happen to us. And it's great having those connections, those relationships, when the time we need them.

00;31;11;24 - 00;31;41;10
Yeah, that's that's sound advice. I mean, that's what it means. Let's let's just say like this, what else are you doing where you can't do that? You know, and I think that's more of a philosophical question. You know, it could be a rhetorical you can use it for whatever else. But ask yourself, if you're not doing anything, you know, at the moment, why not use that that moment to reach out to somebody and think about how they might be feeling and how that could spark something else.

00;31;41;10 - 00;31;59;10
And the motive is to do that. Right? And yeah, you might get something out of it for sure. You're going to feel good. You get that, that's for sure. Or maybe you won't because maybe maybe there's a risk in when you do that that there's some unfinished conversation that hasn't happened and things like that. However, it's still there.

00;31;59;19 - 00;32;17;22
So now you can you can face it, you can work through it, and then, you know, you can have closure of some sort. So that's the other part of it. So I mean, let's be real. There's some that some other relationship activities that components to consider. But I think generally speaking is, you know, we have people around us, we've engaged with people, we've interacted with people.

00;32;17;26 - 00;32;33;27
You know, there's people that have come in and out of your life at some point to where there's value in the immediate minute. Right. And that in that moment, there's there's immediate value. And then there's times when you haven't realized it yet. And that's to what you've been saying is there may be a time when you need each other or one of you needs somebody else.

00;32;33;27 - 00;32;54;24
They know maybe maybe they're even serving as a connection. Right. And I think that's the thing, you know, is people point nice to other people is also part of the path. So yeah. So I guess this is a good touch base. Touch base. I appreciate your time, David. And you know, for anybody out there that wants to connect with us, you know, you got to cross that.

00;32;56;00 - 00;32;56;26
What is it called now?

00;32;57;17 - 00;33;03;21
David Cross Travel Scan Me, my blog that talks about all the zombies around the world. I wonder.

00;33;04;09 - 00;33;09;04
What. Yeah, that one I was talking about, whether it's Twitter, but that and then.

00;33;10;26 - 00;33;13;26
And then Mr. TB Cross ad on Twitter.

00;33;13;26 - 00;33;18;10
So yeah. Yep. And then say one more time.

00;33;19;01 - 00;33;21;18
Mr. DB Cross at Twitter.

00;33;21;27 - 00;33;24;10
And then your your blog, your travel blog.

00;33;24;26 - 00;33;26;22
David Cross travel scam.

00;33;27;05 - 00;33;41;13
Yeah, you should go there. I checked it out. I mean, you know, we, we talk about it. It's funny now because we talk about it, but there's some good stuff there. I mean, you definitely do some traveling. How often do you travel in the air, do you think.

00;33;42;07 - 00;33;55;10
Well, at least I try to go at least, you know, two big trips a year. You know, the comet kind of threw things off a little bit. But, you know, definitely, you know, you know, three to four times a year because it's really my personal passion and things like that. And it's connecting to more people around the world is amazing.

00;33;55;10 - 00;34;07;16
The people I've met around the world that I have friends in Australia that I met on a tour. Right. That will be friends forever. And I never know if I need help. And our flight gets canceled in Melbourne, Australia. I know who to contact.

00;34;08;02 - 00;34;22;06
Yeah. Then there's that. Right? So got it. All right. Well, David, and then you can always find me on LinkedIn. I think we'll say that in opening too. But it's been a pleasure What do you think we should talk about next?

00;34;23;22 - 00;34;45;04
Good question. What should we talk about next? You know, I think it's I think there's an element is I think we're we were mentioned before about challenges is then why don't we talk about moving up, right? You know, how do you strive to the top? Right, right. And let's say what motivates people? How do they get there when there's obstacles and barriers?

00;34;45;04 - 00;34;47;26
Right. You know, let's maybe we can even have a guest join us.

00;34;49;13 - 00;34;59;17
I like that. All right. So maybe our next episode is going to include career trajectory and how you move move to where you want to be. Maybe that's that'll be the episode name.

00;35;00;02 - 00;35;00;14
Love it.

00;35;00;28 - 00;35;04;06
All right, David, appreciate your time as always.

00;35;04;06 - 00;35;05;19
Chris, I'm looking forward to the next one.

00;35;06;10 - 00;35;08;07
All right, everyone, keep moving forward.

Potentially one of the most overlooked aspects of overall human performance, nutrition is an absolute necessity in anything we do. Mindset, nutrition, movement, and recovery needs to be an integrated part of our efforts to sustain and improve our activity levels. As we consider wanting to do more, think better, and move towards very specific goals, nutrition is key. Listen in as Jana breaks down foundational nutrition, meal timing and composition, and supplementation into digestible, easy-to-consume, tips for us all to use and pass on to those we love.

 

From individuals, athletes, to businesses or military…seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve.

 

- https://teamexos.com/

- https://www.linkedin.com/company/exos/

- https://www.teamexos.com/athlete/military

- https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-stemmerman-8a29969/

- jmason@teamexos.com

- sunderwood@teamexos.com

- ahobgood@teamexos.com

- https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-andrews-institute/

- http://www.andrewsinstitute.com/

- https://andrewsref.org/

- https://andrewsref.org/donate/

 

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Episode Transcript:

 

00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;09

You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized missions and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this fifth episode of our XO series, I am joined by our guest, Jana mason, senior performance dietitian at XOs.

 

00;00;28;12 - 00;00;59;12

Potentially one of the most overlooked aspects of overall human performance. Nutrition is an absolute necessity in anything we do mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery needs to be an integrated part of our efforts to sustain and improve our activity levels. As we consider wanting to do more, think better and move towards very specific goals nutrition is key. Listen in as Jana breaks down foundational nutrition, meal timing and composition supplementation in the digestible easy to consume tips for us all to use and pass on to those we love from individuals, athletes to businesses or military.

 

00;00;59;12 - 00;01;19;17

Seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve. Jan Contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Good morning Jana. How's it going? Good morning, Chris. How are you? I'm doing great.

 

00;01;19;20 - 00;01;42;21

Doing well, thanks. And before we got on here, you said. Yeah, it's a sunny day here in Florida and. Right. Yep. It's been. It's been very nice. It's been very hot. So I'm hoping in the next couple of weeks, we'll start the downward trend. So we have some nice cool mornings. The falls great here, but the summer is a little brutal at times.

 

00;01;42;23 - 00;02;15;24

Oh, I bet. Yeah. The humidity probably going to dial in to how the environment or the external elements affect our nutritional focus here. Yeah, they definitely do. See what I did there? Segway chai try and nutrition to everything. All right, everyone. Today we're talking about nutrition with Jana mason from Exos and running out of Florida. So we've had previous episodes where we've had an introduction with Anthony Hobgood, who's also talked about some other topics like training and daily movement.

 

00;02;15;24 - 00;02;41;23

And then we've had some information on the model itself, the human performance model with Stephan Underwood and we've also had an episode for this one with About Sleep with John Stemmerman. And so today we're talking about nutrition and how it ties in to the things that we've already discussed and then also introducing some things that we haven't yet probably introduced as something that we should no matter what we do.

 

00;02;41;23 - 00;03;22;20

And who we are and in one of our jobs or interests or goals are how we need to factor in the realities of what nutrition does or doesn't do for us, depending on what we're trying to achieve. So Jan and I will kick it to you. Yeah, absolutely. I think nutrition is one of those things that when people do set a goal, especially like a weight loss goal or maybe even change in body composition, goal nutrition is kind of like one of the last things people consider, which it really should not be, because you're definitely going to get to your goal faster if you kind of hone in on your nutrition.

 

00;03;22;23 - 00;03;50;26

And even even Anthony, I was listening to the podcast that you did with him. He talked a lot about nutrition. And when we're working with athletes, our coaches do a great job of telling them like, Hey, you're going to run a faster 40. If you dial in on your nutrition because the other guy who is just as gifted as you are, this is the thing that could put you over him.

 

00;03;50;27 - 00;04;23;19

So yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize not only like if it's a weight goal or a body composition goal, like how nutrition can affect your, your mindset, your mood, your energy levels, like the tire, the energy you have at work. But also when you get done with work and you have, you know, a family to take care of or kids to play with nutrition and play a very vital role in changing your mindset.

 

00;04;23;21 - 00;04;49;23

So I know Stephan, when he was he was speaking with you, he talked kind of like a high level overview of our human performance model that we have at Exos. And he did speak about how you do have to have mindset, nutrition movement, recovery seamlessly integrated so that you can meet your your goals efficiently and optimize your overall cognitive and physical performance.

 

00;04;49;23 - 00;05;15;02

So he did a good job, I think setting the stage there for Anthony and and John. He'll speak about sleep in myself and then the others to follow after myself. So that was great. And then Anthony, he spoke a lot about sustainability and I'm definitely going to talk about that in in this segment because it is really key, he said.

 

00;05;15;02 - 00;05;42;05

I liked when he said, do the simple things savagely well, but do them consistently because you could do the simple things savagely. Well, but if you only do them for a short period of time, then you're you're going to revert back to your old ways. And that happens all the time with nutrition. I get clients all the time here that, you know, they're like, Hey, I want to do something.

 

00;05;42;06 - 00;06;04;14

Just fill in the blanks for a restrictive diet. I want to do a keto diet or a very low carb diet or I want to fast whatever, whatever it may be. And I'm like, okay, well, that's that's great. Well, let's talk about what you've done in the past, what your goals are. Has this worked in the past? Is there in barriers?

 

00;06;04;16 - 00;06;30;04

So just asking a lot of questions, seeking to understand. And sometimes we come to the revelation, Oh, well, this didn't work in the past and actually it was only a short term success. And then I ended up gaining all my weight back or whatever it was that they had said as a goal. And then we come to the conclusion, okay, well, maybe we need to set a different nutrition game plan.

 

00;06;30;12 - 00;06;59;00

Or it could be like, Oh, well, this has worked for me and it has been sustainable and successful, but now let's figure out how do we optimize it and fine tune it even more. So I'll definitely want to touch on the sustainability of nutrition and just making sure you're doing something that's going to fit your lifestyle and also help you get to whatever or that goal is that you set.

 

00;06;59;03 - 00;07;19;05

So that being said, I want to start off with three key points. I kind of wanted to break it down, make it easy. I used to have this soccer coach growing up that always said when we try to get like fancy with our our footwork, he always used the terminology kiss, which I'm sure you've heard of. Keep it simple, stupid.

 

00;07;19;11 - 00;07;56;17

So I always start out with my nutrition talks, keeping it as simple as possible and then we'll dive into a little bit of deeper conversations and I'm sure we'll have some side segments off of these three points. But three points for anybody that's listening, we're going to first talk about foundational nutrition. So what is foundational in nutrition? We're going to hit on sleep and hydration because these really are the things that you have to get right before we even want to consider changing what we're eating.

 

00;07;56;19 - 00;08;27;11

They're basically the fundamental things that we need to make any type of body composition change or weight change. They affect our mood or energy. They affect everything. So we're going to start with the foundational pieces. The second thing we're going to talk a little bit about meal timing and meal composition. So like what things go in a well-balanced meal or a snack and then maybe even the cadence of the timing of how we eat those meals and snacks.

 

00;08;27;14 - 00;08;53;10

And then the last thing, which is the most specific, is supplementation. So talking about those things that maybe we need to fill in the gaps because we just can't do it through the food that we're eating. Or maybe we even have like a medical history of a deficiency or we are a high performing athlete and it's really difficult to get all of the nutrients that we need just from the food.

 

00;08;53;12 - 00;09;15;23

So we're going to kind of start off in that order are foundational. So are most basic fundamental things. Kind of like Anthony spoke about. You have to be able to fundamentally move without pain. That's the most basic thing. So we're going to start with basics and then we'll work our way up to a little bit more specific, if that sounds good.

 

00;09;15;25 - 00;09;36;16

Sounds good to me. I mean, that's kind of introducing the opportunity to ask a couple of things along the way and then connect dots and things like that. So that's great. But I do like how you all have all of you have consistently used the terms in each of these conversations, which helps with the kind of the mindset of understanding the discipline that goes into the consistency.

 

00;09;36;16 - 00;10;04;26

You know, and I'm not trying to split hairs on this or being very specific on this meaning, but the trust that's developed through the staff or through the coaches or through anybody that's helping you change how you do what you do, you look for these subtle things, subtleties. That's what I was looking for, is the subtleties. You're looking for it, and the language you're using is the consistency as far as seeking to understand, doing the things savagely.

 

00;10;04;26 - 00;10;28;02

Well, that is funny because you can say I crushed it on my workout a month ago. I haven't worked out since. Yeah. So it's this memory of of success, right where you're like, Oh yeah. And then you don't do it again. So yeah, I'm curious and, you know, I'll do my best to try to not interject before you make your point, but let's go.

 

00;10;28;05 - 00;11;20;16

I feel feel free to interject. I can definitely get off on some tangents so I'll try to stay on track a little bit here. So Foundation, we're going to start there. Sleep and hydration. I tell my clients, my athletes, these are the two most important things that we need to do and have right before you even come to me wanting to change you up your your meal plan or your game plan for your nutrition, people don't realize how much impact that these two things actually have on the nutrition choices we make and then also on our recovery from whatever the demands of the day are our movement and then also trying to change body composition.

 

00;11;20;17 - 00;11;42;07

If that's one of our goals or change our weight, because there are a lot of physiological and metabolic responses that happen when we are getting enough sleep or and we are hydrating well or vice versa if we're if we're not getting enough sleep and recovering as well or drinking enough water. So I'm going to start with the sleep.

 

00;11;42;07 - 00;12;14;23

I knew there's going to be a whole segment with someone that's a lot more intelligent than I am on sleep, so I'm going to keep it kind of a high level and trying to mostly focus on the nutrition piece of sleep. So generally speaking, recommendation for sleep all of these recommendations to that, I'm going to say during this segment are and I would say General recommendations like this is a starting point.

 

00;12;14;23 - 00;12;53;14

So I want people to know that not everybody is going to fit within these general recommendations because everybody's different. So sleep requirements, 7 to 9 hours approximately a night. Why do we need to sleep? Obviously, this is the time that our body and our mind are going to repair and rebuild themselves. We can go out and Anthony can take somebody through an intense workout, maybe they do in two days, but if they're not getting adequate sleep, then they're not going to reap the benefits from the repair, the muscle building that Anthony just took them to go through that workout.

 

00;12;53;17 - 00;13;21;16

From a cognitive standpoint, stresses illnesses like sleep is where we're going, going to come back. Those things. So from the nutrition standpoint, let's let's get to that. A lot of things are going on when you are getting adequate sleep. So growth hormone, this is a hormone that's going to be released when we are getting enough sleep. So this is needed for every tissue in your body.

 

00;13;21;16 - 00;13;42;12

So if you're trying to make any type of, I guess, quote unquote gain, you want to make sure you're getting adequate sleep. So this hormone is releasing properly cortisol, which I'm sure John talks about a lot in his sleep section. This is one of our stress hormones, and it's a catabolic hormone, meaning that it's going to tear you down.

 

00;13;42;14 - 00;14;09;02

So if this is staying chronically elevated while because we're not getting enough sleep. So it's chronically elevated mostly through the day because probably the demands of life outside of sleep are going to increase our cortisol levels as well. Then we're not going to be able to rebuild or repair as optimally as we would if we were getting that adequate sleep.

 

00;14;09;05 - 00;14;39;26

A couple other hormones that I wanted to throw out there, which are more thyroid and hunger regulation hormones, there's two in particular ghrelin and leptin ghrelin is our hunger hormones. So basically this tells us we we need to eat, eat more. This is actually going to be increased when we're not getting adequate sleep. Leptin, which is our satiety hormone, telling us like, okay, you've had enough, let's stop eating.

 

00;14;40;03 - 00;15;11;07

This is decreased when we're not getting adequate sleep. So if you have these two hunger regulation hormones that are kind of out of whack telling you to eat more, but not giving you the signal that you've had enough, then you are more apt to overeat and eat more calories than maybe you need for the day. So all of that is kind of something that you can't see physically but is internally happening.

 

00;15;11;09 - 00;15;41;18

So you can see how this would lead to not making body composition changes, which by what I mean by that is losing body fat. If that's your goal and or building muscle or weight loss in general, you're just not going to get there as fast if you're not getting that adequate sleep. Got it. So real quick on that one, since we're there and think about that because I'm thinking about myself as always, a little vain.

 

00;15;41;21 - 00;16;08;21

Just kidding. But if I'm thinking about the types of fat now when we're talking about sleep and we're talking about nutrition, the combination of those things to allow, you know, not to have as much cortisol and these other things, your body recovers and so on and so forth, the differences between fat. So when we're talking from here, I don't know if you're going to cover it or not, so we can understand the different types of fat so that you have the the rolls on the side and whatnot.

 

00;16;08;27 - 00;16;32;23

And then you have the I think it's visceral stuff inside. I don't know how the other way to say around your organs, you run to organs, different things, different way to lose that and different way to focus on how we can manage that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And actually chronically elevated cortisol levels are associated with higher like abdominal fat.

 

00;16;32;23 - 00;17;05;11

So that fat that for men, for example, is predominantly where your fat goes, which is more associated like cardiovascular disease and things like that. So like high blood pressure, cholesterol, all of that can be affected by the cortisol levels. So yes, losing the fat, that is not necessarily. And in indicative of a healthy, I guess, lifestyle or healthy biomarkers.

 

00;17;05;14 - 00;17;40;03

Got it. Okay. Thanks for that. Yeah. Another thing I wanted to touch on here, a couple things actually. So what is asleep Disrupter? The biggest one, and I think pretty much everybody knows what it is. Stephan touched on it in his segment to alcohol. So if we are drinking alcohol consistently before bed, the alcohol basically it's going to wake you up when it starts metabolizing.

 

00;17;40;06 - 00;18;15;02

So if you're you know that you have to be like game ready the next morning, whether it's maybe a sporting event or you have some type of like physical activity you have to be prepped for, or it could be more or if you need to be sharp in on your game for some type of conference that you have to speak out or whatever it may be, a meeting, the alcohol may be one of those things you just want to consider limiting that night before you have to be kind of game ready.

 

00;18;15;05 - 00;18;40;22

That's the biggest one there. I do want to talk a little bit about what can what things because I don't want to get too far into all of the other things that you can do to to get better sleep, because I know John will talk about that. But from a nutrition standpoint, because I get asked a lot like what things can I eat or drink before I go to bed to maybe get a little bit of better sleep.

 

00;18;40;24 - 00;19;01;29

So there is three things I'll touch on here. One is pretty, I would say pretty obvious, although I say pretty obvious in that I realize a lot of people don't know some of these things that I'm saying, but like a herbal tea. So like camomile that's relaxing. Tart, cherry juice, concentrate. So this'll help tart cherry juice in general.

 

00;19;01;29 - 00;19;41;03

Or you can take pills. There are supplements for it, but if you want to go the cheaper route, I would recommend the tart cherry juice concentrate. This helps with recovery, but also helps with natural melatonin production so that you can get into more of a restful sleep. You only need about two ounces of the concentrate. I usually tell people to go that route if you're going to do it, because if you do just the 100% tart cherry juice, then you would have to drink about 16 ounces equivalent to the two ounce concentrate, which is a lot of juice and may not fit into your overall calorie or carbohydrate needs.

 

00;19;41;05 - 00;20;04;05

And then the last thing is magnesium. So magnesium helps with muscle relaxation. You can get this again, you can get this from a supplement. But if you want to go the food route, which I would always recommend food first, nut seeds, legumes, dark chocolate, even, which is kind of a nice dessert. They all are good sources of magnesium.

 

00;20;04;05 - 00;20;32;03

So you could have something in your dinner or if you're doing a nice snack, maybe that's high magnesium containing food. So those are three. There's more things that you can do. But I thought I'd point out by just a few of people want to want to try that if they're having some difficulty sleeping, maybe try that before going the route of more, I guess, extreme ways of getting to sleep, whether that's medication or whatever it may be.

 

00;20;32;05 - 00;20;51;01

Yeah. Now that's good. And and because it's the flow of thought that I'm having, I'm like because you said concentrate. And I was like, where would I immediately and where would I get that? How much trouble is it worth? How much is that going to impact my ability to go find it and then and then be consistent And then you said versus the juice, which is 16 ounces.

 

00;20;51;01 - 00;21;14;10

And immediately I was thinking that what you said impacting the other areas of concerns of calories and sugars and things like that. So I like where we're going, That's all. Okay, Awesome. Yeah. And and with any of these little, like tips that I'm giving out, just I would say just experiment because you never know what's going to work for you.

 

00;21;14;10 - 00;21;39;07

Some people love taking tart cherry. Do some people just prefer taking magnesium before bed? So you kind of have to play around, see what works for you. Maybe it's nothing nutrition related. It could be something else. Like in your environment that's disturbing your sleep. So I'm trying not to get into that as well because I know there'll be a more in-depth segment on that.

 

00;21;39;09 - 00;22;07;13

Okay, So we have sleep. That's number one, hydration. Number two, which is tied with sleep, is our foundation is the hydration piece. And so I want to touch a little bit on that before we move on to the actually talking about food. So general recommendations, again, this is a starting place. We can go above it if needed, but a half an ounce to one ounce per pound of body weight.

 

00;22;07;14 - 00;22;32;01

So that's typical recommendation. So if you're a £200 person, you want to drink at least 100 ounces of water a day as your minimum. Now, if you are in a hot, humid environment like Florida, your needs may go a little bit higher than that. If you're training twice a day or maybe you're training for Ironman or whatever it is, you also may need a little bit more.

 

00;22;32;02 - 00;23;00;04

Maybe you're at elevation, you're going to need a little bit more. So you do have to consider the external factors. But if you use the half an ounce to an ounce, that's a pretty good, I would say, place to start. And honestly, a lot of people struggle with this. And I think it's just because people don't think about drinking water and they get busy or they're like, Oh, it's a hassle because now I have to go pee and I have meetings all day.

 

00;23;00;06 - 00;23;33;10

But honestly, it's one of the easiest upgrades we can make with probably the most significant health impact. I mean, you think about your body and how much of your body is water like it's a large percentage of your body like up to 70%. So it's got to be important, right? We need it for our cognitive function. So like making sure being focused, being productive, we need it for transporting oxygen and nutrients to our working muscles, our sales.

 

00;23;33;15 - 00;24;00;03

If we have an injury, obviously we need water to get those nutrients to the injury site so that we're healing faster. So we need it for everything. We need it for absorbing our nutrients in our organs. It's so important and people just don't think about doing it. So I have to want to have to reinforce it and then to I have to come up or we have to come up with like, well, how can we increase water?

 

00;24;00;03 - 00;24;29;08

Like what are some practical tips? So we'll kind of talk about those things. And I will say like we can also include any naturally zero calorie beverages in that in that as well. So we can include like unsweetened teas, sparkling waters, we can include some coffee. Even So if you're drinking black coffee, I tell people that's perfectly fine, you know, maybe two, 300 milligrams, which is probably 2 to 3 cups, depending on the brew.

 

00;24;29;11 - 00;25;15;00

Like you can count that towards your overall hydration. But I would recommend like, let's try to make most of that water and then everything else is just kind of like a cherry on top. So yeah, so cognitively we're going to be better off. I always show, especially if I'm given a PowerPoint presentation to like a corporate setting, I will show these images, these MRI images of two different brains and on one side is a hydrating brain and all the other side's a dehydrated brain and there are blatantly like significantly more black divots in the dehydrated brain, which is indicative of brain activity.

 

00;25;15;05 - 00;25;43;28

So you can see like from an actual image of a brain when you're dehydrated, how unproductive or uncreative or focused that you're you're probably going to be if you're dehydrated. I do think people get very used to being in a dehydrated state, and that's kind of like their norm. And they are like, Well, I feel fine and I'm drinking 20 ounces of water, so why should I increase my water intake?

 

00;25;44;00 - 00;26;18;22

But I will tell you, like when I do come across clients that are very low in water intake, which is most of them, when they start slowly increasing water in their day, they will feel a difference whether that's mood energy, like mental clarity, physical performance too. So if we're talking about an athlete or even like a weekend warrior, someone just working out daily and that sweating from a physical standpoint, you are going to be faster and sharp or you're going to be less prone to injury.

 

00;26;18;22 - 00;26;48;19

If you're well-hydrated as well. I always tell people try to keep it under that 1% loss of body weight. When you are training. So I'll actually have I'm not a huge fan of like weighing every day, but I will have athletes especially maybe the first week they're here and say it is summer because it's super hot here. I'll have them weigh in before and after a training session just to see how much water weight they're losing.

 

00;26;48;22 - 00;27;12;18

And then we'll kind of do the calculation if they're losing too much waterway. So say again, £200. If they're losing more than £4 of of water weight, they're losing too much because they're already at that 2% dehydrated stage where they're going to start being more prone to injury and having a negative effects on their performance. So you can kind of do that yourself.

 

00;27;12;20 - 00;27;37;09

Just weigh in before and after your activity, see if you're drinking enough. Maybe maybe it's easier because you weren't drinking any and you need to just start sipping water throughout your workout or your competition. Maybe you were sipping on water all throughout your training competition and you're like, I can't drink anymore. Then then that's when you're probably going to want to consider adding in maybe electrolytes to help retain some of that.

 

00;27;37;11 - 00;28;07;28

The fluid that you're taking in. And there is all kinds of electrolytes ranging in sodium. So again, you have to kind of experiment nutrition, nutrition can be really frustrating because it's not always like black and white, but everybody's different. So it is a bit of an experiment at times. But yeah, water, water, drink enough water. Staying hydrated is going to be super beneficial to physical and cognitive performance.

 

00;28;08;00 - 00;28;43;17

I know I mentioned that to be in that big marker, but even at 1% dehydrated, you're not necessarily going to have a physical performance decline, but you will have more of a cardiovascular strain. So your perceived effort seems harder. So we don't we don't want that, especially if you're an endurance athlete or a triathlon or you're running a marathon and you feel like, okay, I'm in mile ten, and now I feel like this is a lot harder than it was, I probably can slow down.

 

00;28;43;17 - 00;29;09;16

So ultimately it is going to affect your physical performance. And I have to reinforce this with our military population all the time, like drink water because it does affect you. They have to be like mentally and physically sharp at all times. And it's really hard for them to to to stay super hydrated, even if they're trying. So get at it.

 

00;29;09;16 - 00;29;31;11

So the summary is you don't feel like drinking. It is probably the the awareness s of you should because the minute you say I don't feel like it is probably an indicator that you should and if the environment in the elements you understand where you're going to be, if you're going to change from where you normally stay in your house, you can go somewhere else.

 

00;29;31;14 - 00;30;05;07

Consider that movement itself with stress and other activities where your body's now responding to different places and different elevations and different atmosphere and all that stuff Drink, drink, water, fluids. Right. And and actually being inadequately hydrated can also affect your, again, cortisol level. So adding more stress is not good, right? Yeah. Got it. All right, cool. Dehydrator, quick note on this.

 

00;30;05;09 - 00;30;35;01

Again, alcohol. I know alcohol is falling in everywhere here, but I have to talk about it. Alcohol is anti diuretic hormone. So you're going to be losing more water and then added sugar. Actually, a lot of people think it's coffee when I always quiz people, they always think it's coffee, caffeine in and of itself. If you're drinking it at a moderate amount, say 3 to 400 milligrams a day, you should not be dehydrating yourself.

 

00;30;35;06 - 00;31;00;20

It's when people add added sugars or you're getting that like pumpkin spice latte. It's almost a fall season. So those things are going to dehydrate you because sugar is going to rob your cells of water. So just keep that in mind when you are hydrating, making sure that you're intentional about getting at least half your body weight in ounces of water.

 

00;31;00;20 - 00;31;25;17

And then you can add in other things as well. Got it. Yeah. Didn't think about that. And I'm glad you said that because I like my coffee and yeah, I don't know people. It's okay to have it. Yeah. And put stuff in it so. Okay perfect. So alcohol, water. Well alcohol, I mean it comes back to double down on the things that disrupt your sleep and then disrupts your.

 

00;31;25;17 - 00;32;00;24

Yeah. Okay. So it disrupts your sleep, disrupts your hydration which are your foundational things and we'll talk a second actually in the next piece about well, where does that fit in? So those are foundational sleep and hydration. And so now we're moving on to a little bit more specifics. It is probably what most people are interested in an end to talking about the mill composite in our macronutrients and micronutrients and then maybe the timing of that as well.

 

00;32;00;26 - 00;32;38;25

So before I dive into the different macros, macros, I do want to stress the under fueling problem. I would say 80% of the clients I see the tactical athletes, I see they chronically under fuel, which is actually a big problem if you're wanting to lose weight or again, if you're wanting to make those body composition changes. So building up muscle or reducing some of that body fat.

 

00;32;38;28 - 00;33;20;19

And I know I say that and I and I talk about the tactical population a bit because a lot of those at Oracle probably have been in the military at some point in their career. But I feel like that's something that a habit that you pick up when you're in that lifestyle, that sometimes you carry over and you continue to undo your fuel after you're out of the military, and especially because you're less active for the most part, then you feel like, Oh, I need to continue to cut calories, but that's not necessarily going to help you get to the weight goal or the body composition goal that you want to get to.

 

00;33;20;21 - 00;33;49;14

I've seen plenty of people that there will go over, say, like a 24 hour recall. And I don't I'll notice that they're barely eating, you know, 12, 1400 calories. And I'm like, hey, this is probably not enough fuel to optimize your physical performance, your energy, your cognitive performance. So let's try to actually up your calorie. Even though I know you want to lose weight.

 

00;33;49;14 - 00;34;21;05

Let's just see what happens and we'll up the calories and then people start losing weight so that I just want people to be mindful of like restricting calories to a certain extent does not always equal weight loss. So it's trying to fuel your body with the things that are going to optimize your cognitive and physical performance. So we're going to we're going to kind of roll through those macronutrients and some micro nutrients.

 

00;34;21;07 - 00;34;57;22

Whenever I'm talking about this section, I always start out with my favorite rule, which is the 8020 rule. And I think this brings us back to the sustainability that has been woven through all of these segments, because I have found that when we take an approach that, okay, 80% of the time we're going to fuel our bodies with what it needs to reach our goal, what it needs to be like, peak physically, mentally, but then we're intentionally going to allow for that 20% of time where we just have foods, say, nourish our souls and not necessarily our body.

 

00;34;57;25 - 00;35;28;12

We just enjoy eating them or drinking them if it's alcohol. So I do find that that's a more sustainable approach when we are not so strict and we do allow ourselves some of that, some of those foods in the flexibility to intentionally put those into our diet. So kind of keep that rule in mind as I go through some of these different macronutrients.

 

00;35;28;15 - 00;35;57;16

All right. So We're going to start with carbohydrates, everybody's favorite carbohydrates. When I speak about foods, I like to speak about them in a way that shows like how this food is going to benefit from a cognitive standpoint, a health standpoint, a physical performance standpoint. I don't like to say this food's good, this foods bad, because we know that all foods can fit into a sustainable diet.

 

00;35;57;16 - 00;36;23;04

You just want to be intentional about it. So carbohydrates, these are the foods that are going to be our preferred fuel source for our brain. So if we need to be cognitively sharp, incorporating carbs into our diet, it's a good thing. And then also it's our preferred fuel source for any high intensity activities or long duration activities. So from a physical performance standpoint, also carbs are our friends.

 

00;36;23;10 - 00;36;59;07

We want carbs in our diet. So what is a carbohydrate? It could be anything from a fruit, a grain, it could be beans, legumes. The key is to focus on unprocessed or minimally processed carbohydrates. So like our starchy veggies, the sweet potatoes, peas, corn, things like that would fall under unprocessed, more minimally processed would be more of like whole grain breads, pastas, brown rice, wild rice, black rice like that.

 

00;36;59;09 - 00;37;28;11

Those are going to be higher in fiber, which helps with cholesterol. It helps with satiety. So if we're trying to watch, you know, the calories that we eat, it helps us go for longer, helps with digestion. So lots of good things about fiber. And then also if you are eating minimally processed or unprocessed foods, you typically are eating things that are lower in added sugar, which the added sugar, as we know, is a dehydrator.

 

00;37;28;15 - 00;37;56;03

And also it's an inflammatory. So inflammation is connected to like every disease that we could have. So we want to keep that under control. And then if we have an injury, especially, we want to make sure we're just limited in those added sugars. My rule of thumb is typically let's try to keep the added sugar to under five grams per serving and the fiber let's try to shoot for at least three grams of fiber per serving.

 

00;37;56;03 - 00;38;29;07

So we're looking at a nutrition label. You should have fiber and added sugar under the carb section on the label. Got it. Makes sense. Perfect. Okay, so let's roll on 3 to 2 proteins. Protein is important for building muscle mass, but also it helps with the integrity of our immune system. So the key here, make sure we have a quality protein source at every meal and even our snacks if we can.

 

00;38;29;10 - 00;38;53;27

It seems like a simple thing to do, but honestly, it can be hard because what are the most convenient things? Like when we're in a hurry, we're probably grabbing a car or a car mixed with a fat, not necessarily a quality protein source. So sometimes this can actually be one of the biggest struggles for people to get adequate protein in at breakfast or lunch or dinner or whatever it may be.

 

00;38;54;00 - 00;39;20;14

You only need about 20 grams of protein to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. So typically, I tell people, let's try to shoot depending on your whole nutrition plan, if you can shoot for at least 20 to 40 grams of protein in a meal, then that's great. You're doing pretty good there. Protein. We used to have this old tagline, the the left legs, the better a plant proteins.

 

00;39;20;16 - 00;39;43;22

Then we have our seafood or no leg and I guess animals. Then we have our two legged animal. So poultry, so chicken, turkey and then are four legged animals. So if we kind of try to include all of those, the four legged animals are red meats. Okay to have, but maybe we have them a little bit less than our seafood or our chicken and turkey.

 

00;39;43;24 - 00;40;11;02

So we can kind of look at it like that. And and the reason for that is because of what so Well, you definitely want to, I guess with the bears that can be multifaceted and you want a variety of everything the plant proteins are going to have a lot of fiber. So that's adding something different that like your chicken and your turkey and a red meats aren't going to have.

 

00;40;11;02 - 00;40;36;01

So that's an extra nutrient. They're also going to be filled with, you know, different vitamins, minerals, maybe more micro nutrients. And then as you kind of work your way up, we have our fish. So like if we're focusing on fatty fish, which are like salmon, tuna, herring, mackerel, these are going to provide those heart healthy omega three fat.

 

00;40;36;01 - 00;41;14;06

So they have a little bit more benefits, different benefits in certain ways. Again, if you just don't like plant proteins, it's okay to have chicken and turkey maybe try to get in some seafood if you can. So some salmon each week, it's okay to have that most of the days. But it's really important to with anything and any of the macronutrients to make sure that you're having variety because variety equals different nutrients that your body good giving and getting so balancing it out so everything offers something different.

 

00;41;14;06 - 00;41;42;24

And if you're looking at at what the other things you're eating contain, you can do your own supplementation of you or what you're doing, the activity levels and things like that. Exactly. And then like I said, right. Me there's still is still okay to have you know, as long as there's no religious or restrictions that are placed on you, maybe by a physician but that's still going to offer you something.

 

00;41;42;24 - 00;42;16;27

It has this great iron, so good protein source. So yeah, variety is key with the proteins as well. Got it. Okay. Moving on to fats are our last two macronutrient that I also, I guess kind of like carbs can get villainized a little bit, but fats are great for you if you're looking at the molecular level. So like if you're looking at your cell, your cell membrane has made up of fat, so you need that.

 

00;42;17;00 - 00;42;41;01

You need fat for every cell in your body. And certain fats I mentioned in the protein section are going to give you a little bit more than other fat. So like our omega three fats, which are anti-inflammatory fats, they're going to give us a little something extra than maybe things that are higher in, say, saturated fats, for example.

 

00;42;41;01 - 00;43;08;19

So those are things like they're found in nuts and seeds a lot, too, like chia seeds, flax seeds, walnuts, avocado. Again, our fatty fish that I mentioned earlier, olives, olive oil, things like that are going to have those good omega three heart healthy fats. But also a big thing about the omega threes, too, is the cognitive benefit that has as well.

 

00;43;08;19 - 00;43;36;07

There's lots of research on that. So it helps our brain, our heart and then our cells. So we want to make sure that we're trying to diligently incorporate some of those omega threes in there. But again, we still want a variety of fats because nuts, seeds, all the different fats are going to offer us different micronutrients and things that we need to optimize our overall health.

 

00;43;36;09 - 00;44;03;08

The last food group R is our color section, so I always include fruits in here too and in our carb section. But veggies and fruits are going to fall into here and these are what we need to help support our immune system. So vitamins, minerals, micro, all the micronutrients, phytonutrients, antioxidants, all of that fiber or green fiber all fall into there.

 

00;44;03;10 - 00;44;27;24

But we try to encourage at least three colors or more on each plate. This can be really hard to do. So I usually tell people like, okay, well, let's just take an assessment of what we're doing currently. Is there one meal in your day that you're not getting any color on? And if there if you can identify a meal, then maybe we'll just start there.

 

00;44;27;24 - 00;44;54;16

Maybe there's multiple meals, but we'll just pick one. We'll start with one meal and then try to add one color on there and then maybe we try to move that to two or maybe we move to another meal so that we can get a color on every plate. Sometimes I'll even tell people like, Well, let's just pick one color and we'll focus on incorporating as many veggies and fruits from that one color into our week.

 

00;44;54;16 - 00;45;24;27

And then we'll change colors the next week because each color is actually indicative of something that get like a vitamin or a mineral that's given your body to function optimally. So like red foods are associated with cardiovascular health and white foods with immune health. So they all are going to play a different role. And if you're missing out on color, if you're missing all variety, you're probably missing out on some nutrient that your body needs to maximize your performance.

 

00;45;25;00 - 00;45;48;15

So in summarizing all of this to me have it makes sense. The key word here is balance through understanding. I'm just going to throw my little phrase in there because if you're deficient in one thing and you double down on the, say, the proteins, right, the leafy proteins, then it's also in the vegetation and area. So you have to be considered what else you're getting when you combine things on your plate.

 

00;45;48;15 - 00;46;07;20

Is that safe to say? Yeah, it's all about variety and balance at the end of the day. Yep. Got it. Yes, because keep it varied, right. And understanding what each of these are. I would imagine just the layman, somebody like me is going in there and this is what I like. And you led with this, you know. What did you use?

 

00;46;07;20 - 00;46;31;22

What have you done in the past and what's worked and what hasn't? So you can identify what you want for your habits that you don't want to let go of so you can have that compromised to help with the consistency you feel like you're getting what you want while you're offering what you need. Slowly shift into a more disciplined routine where you now are acclimated to selection of what you're going to do in that balanced diet, right?

 

00;46;31;28 - 00;46;53;28

Yeah. And exactly. Have you I guess from your your personal experience, like, have you ever tried to do a very restrictive diet or nutrition plan and you were able to stick with it for a little bit, But at one point you just kind of like fall off the bandwagon and then you just go crazy and just binge on whatever you weren't having.

 

00;46;54;00 - 00;47;13;18

Yeah, I did the keto, but I was also at that stage I was doing trying to train for a long distance running. Oh, okay. Good combo. Great. Yeah, it's perfect. If you don't want to do what you want to do, let me just feed myself all the proteins, no carbs, and then go run 15 miles. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

00;47;13;18 - 00;47;35;05

That sounds like pretty miserable. So, yeah, don't self-diagnose. Sometimes you're going to need to ask for help and get somebody to help you understand what it is that you're doing. First day, second day, second week might feel good. After that, something's missing and you don't realize it's. It's the things that you've chosen to do over the most recent days or weeks, right?

 

00;47;35;08 - 00;47;52;26

That you forget like. Mm. And then you don't want to do it because you're not thinking about the things that are affecting your, your decision. I don't want to do that. I don't feel like doing that. Well, that's because it's cyclic. You're you don't feel like you want to do it because you're not doing it. So. Yeah. Yeah.

 

00;47;52;28 - 00;48;16;00

Okay. And a lot of these things either. Yeah, we don't know that we should be doing it because there is a lot of conflicting information out there, especially on nutrition or we just have forgotten because we've gotten busy. We have families and kids and work and all that. So it's really it comes down to being intentional with everything.

 

00;48;16;00 - 00;48;38;27

And food is something that you want to be intentional about. It's not something that you want to add is another stressor on your life. But if you just kind of sit down and maybe it is seeking out a health professional, a dietitian to help you with it, but if you just do it and kind of make out a game plan, yes, you will have to go back and refined it and refine it.

 

00;48;38;27 - 00;49;00;09

Like Stephan mentioned, learn, design, deliver and refine. You do have to check back in and make some adjustments. But once you sit down and do that, it will take out a lot of stress moving forward because you get in the habit of doing certain things. So yeah, so we're we've got our foundation, we've got our meal timing and composition.

 

00;49;00;11 - 00;49;27;22

The last thing that I kind of had that I wanted to talk about was the most specific, which is a supplementation of this is the last thing that we should consider you shouldn't be thinking about adding in all these things like ashwagandha or b-complex or whatever it is, whatever the newest supplement is out there, there is always something they all get asked about something new probably every week.

 

00;49;27;22 - 00;49;50;21

And I'm like, Hold up. I'm like, I got to go research because I don't even know what you're talking about right now. We got to have the sleep in the hydration and then the food dialed in and then, okay, then maybe we consider like, okay, we're still missing something that how do we fill in the gaps? And that's where, like supplementation may come into play.

 

00;49;50;24 - 00;50;15;13

This can come into play if we do have a know like medical history of being deficient in something, or maybe we are a high performing athlete and we just have more demands than I guess the average person from. It also can come into play though, just based on our lifestyle. I would always recommend food first, but sometimes we are.

 

00;50;15;14 - 00;50;49;26

We are very busy and it's better to get something in than nothing. So we might have to do like a whey protein supplement in our breakfast oatmeal because we we don't have time to make prepare an actual like hot breakfast. So lifestyle can always Yeah. Also kind of like dictate if we need supplementation or not. I guess I'll start with some every day supplementation and then we'll get into kind of Perry activity.

 

00;50;49;26 - 00;51;25;01

What what can we maybe do if you are active around a workout every day supplementation again, I mentioned plant or whey based protein here because I think this is a great thing that you can have on hand if you are very busy or you don't have time to prepare, say, like a breakfast. I use breakfast as an example because this is where I struggle the most, because I do have a 17 month old that I am getting ready in the morning, I'm dropping off at daycare, then I'm coming to work all day and also trying to fit some type of movement or exercise.

 

00;51;25;01 - 00;52;02;12

And so I stay relatively busy and I'm just on the go in the morning. So fitting in a breakfast where it's fast and maybe I can take it in the car with me or maybe I can eat it right when I get to work and I'm checking my emails in the morning. I think that having like a quality protein source on hand is not a bad thing, and that can be used as a meal replacement if you are getting all the macronutrients in there and the color, or it can be used as kind of like an accompanying thing or even a snack too.

 

00;52;02;15 - 00;52;29;11

So that could be an everyday supplementation. For me, Vitamin D is an important one, but the fat soluble vitamins. So it is one of those that you do want to go get blood work before you just start taking a lot of vitamin D. But I will say that most of the people that I see, if you are indoors most of the day or you live maybe in the northern hemisphere, most of us are a little bit low in vitamin D.

 

00;52;29;13 - 00;53;07;00

Also, the darker the your skin, you actually are more prone to be lower in vitamin D as well. So there's different considerations there. So that's a bit you might want to get checked out because that's going to play a huge role in your hormones, your mood, your energy, testosterone if you're male. So the very important vitamin A quality multivitamin, this this is basically if you struggle to get color in your diet, you're like, I just know I don't a lot of diversity in my veggies and fruits.

 

00;53;07;02 - 00;53;45;27

Maybe we need to fill in the gaps with vitamins, minerals and a quality multivitamin helps support our immune system as well. Especially, you know, it's this thick season that is like ramping up. So omega threes or some type of quality fish oil. Again, this is probably one of my foundational ones, just because there's so much benefit from a brain and a cognitive standpoint to just the information Harthill So trying to get a quality fish oil, omega 312, three grams a day is usually good enough of omega three.

 

00;53;45;27 - 00;54;20;08

So I would say those are pretty foundational. Now there's a million other supplements out there and some people may require probiotics or prebiotics, but those are usually a little bit more, I would say felt fine tuned if you need that based on, you know, your medical history, your digestion and things like that. Perry Perry Activity supplementation. I'm going to talk a little bit about, I guess, what we do here, the facility in Florida.

 

00;54;20;10 - 00;54;48;18

But honestly, I think the average, quote unquote, average Joe could also do this and benefit from it. But each morning I will set out a nitric oxide supplementation. So like a beet juice. So you can you can juice your own beets, you can find a quality beet juice supplement. But this is a vasodilator. So it's going to help increase your blood flow to get oxygen and nutrients to your working muscles.

 

00;54;48;18 - 00;55;14;18

So it's a great pre-workout to have, especially if maybe you're going out for a run or you're training for some long endurance activity. This would be a great pre-workout supplement to take. We also give beta alanine. So if you've ever taken a pre-workout that makes you feel a little tingly or itchy, it's probably the beta alanine in it, but we'll just give it straight up.

 

00;55;14;18 - 00;55;41;28

So I'm not adding in other things to that pre-workout. And this basically this will help with buffering the acidity build up in you, so it helps delay fatigue. So essentially, you can go longer or get more reps in and then caffeine. How do you want to touch on that a little bit? I do not give a stimulant when I'm giving out pre workouts to clients or athletes here.

 

00;55;42;00 - 00;56;20;25

Everybody reacts different to caffeine. It can act as a ergo genic aid. It has been shown to improve cognitive function like alertness, focus, also endurance activity. So that could be a consideration to do on the I would say recommendation because people are probably like how how much caffeine should I drink? 3 to 6 milligrams per EKG. So just to put that in more, I guess terms you can wrap your head around if you're a £150 person, that's probably going to be about 200 milligrams of caffeine.

 

00;56;20;25 - 00;56;52;23

So about two cups of coffee. And this is if you're using it as a ergo genic aid. So something that's going to help your performance. I will say some people don't respond to caffeine at all or don't respond well. It also can affect people sleep again. So I would not recommend doing like a massive amount or 200 plus milligrams of caffeine before like at nighttime or maybe even mid-afternoon.

 

00;56;52;23 - 00;57;26;27

Like I have to cut my coffee off about 12. So that doesn't disrupt my sleep. So that would be the only caveat there. But if it's in the morning that you're getting your training done, that could be something you consider to add your pre-workout. Post-workout Again, you do need do you need three things for Post-workout recovery? I say you want to rebuild a protein, refuel with carbs and rehydrate with water protein specifically again at quality whey or plant based protein.

 

00;57;27;04 - 00;57;34;22

You only need 20 grams of protein to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. So try to shoot for at least that.

 

00;57;34;25 - 00;58;01;02

There is some smaller amino acids. I'm not going to get into everything, but particularly leucine, which is in most quality whey proteins. You're going to see a leucine amount in there. And this is the this is the actual amino acid that you need to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. So it goes through the entire process. So you want to make sure that's in there.

 

00;58;01;04 - 00;58;21;19

And then carbs again, the carbohydrates are going to be dependent on one. What was what's your goal? Do you want to lose weight, gain weight, maintain way? If you're wanting to gain weight, you're probably going to have higher carbs in somebody want to lose weight in your post-workout How does it fit into your overall nutrition plan for the day?

 

00;58;21;19 - 00;58;59;02

So if you ate breakfast before you worked out and it's hitting post-workout hitting about the time you'd have a snack, maybe do have a carb in there. It might just be your next scheduled snack or meal. It doesn't have to be a supplement as a post-workout recovery. But yeah, if you're doing something that's very long duration, say you're training for something over 90 minutes or a couple hours, then you probably are going to want to be intentional with refueling with carbohydrates to replace some of those glycogen stores that you kind of burn through.

 

00;58;59;04 - 00;59;22;29

Yeah, those those would be my top ones. There's there's definitely a couple other things that I'll add into shakes here. But those I don't want to give too many recommendations because some things could be affected by, you know, if somebody is on medication and things like that. So those have to be considered when you're looking at supplements because there are interactions with a lot of medications.

 

00;59;22;29 - 00;59;55;23

So. Got it. Yep. So I mean, it's a good flow and I like how you organize it all. It's basically it's understanding, you know, the plants, the plants, the food, whatever food stuffs you're going to have as long as you're again, sending it to where it needs to go through the hydration component. That last part of the supplementation, when you start to get into manufactured supplementing, there's your role in and I'm going to say this with caution, you're rolling some sort of dice because you got to know how much you're having in these other areas.

 

00;59;55;24 - 01;00;31;20

And you can go down that Costco aisle and see that whole row of stuff to choose from. And you're thinking, maybe I want this because I'm not feeling a certain way. And then you can double down on that and have too much of it. Safe to say. Right. And you got to know where it's coming from. Right. And yeah, I do the the supplement Haitian conversation in a in a general sense, I have to be cautious about it because you don't know what someone's medical history looks like or their current nutrition intake.

 

01;00;31;23 - 01;00;58;19

But yeah, for the most part you do, you do excrete or you don't utilize anything that you're taking in excess. But there are certain things you can take in excess that can become toxic. So you do have to be careful with that. You did bring up a good point that I meant to mention is when we are picking out a supplement because it's not closely regulated by the FDA, I mean, you could find a supplement that looks great.

 

01;00;58;19 - 01;01;36;29

They try to sell it to you. It looks great. And what's on the label may not actually be in the supplement container, which is kind of scary. So I always tell people you want to make sure that the supplement is third party tested. So basically an unbiased company has come in. They have checked to make sure, okay, the labels aligning with what's in these containers and they check for banned substances, which I know most people, I mean, maybe they care about, but we probably don't it's not going to affect us as much because we're not getting drug tested like an athlete.

 

01;01;37;01 - 01;02;13;27

But they also check for like heavy metals and things like that, which I don't want a bunch of heavy metals added to my body. More so than they already are. So I would say like always check for a third party tester. There's a lot of there's NSF is a big one and form choice. USP there is being controlled substance group so there's quite a few typically when they do have a third party tester, the company will have that on the label because they pay a lot of money to get somebody else to come in and check their supplements.

 

01;02;13;29 - 01;02;34;12

If you don't see it on the label and you're curious, all you have to do and I keep tabs on my computer of this, but you just go to the third party testing company like I know NSF, for example. I can just type in like a supplement I'm looking for, say like a quality whey protein and it'll pop up with all the supplements that they've approved.

 

01;02;34;12 - 01;03;01;12

So that that makes it a little easier to identify what's actually been tested and what's what hasn't got it. Yeah, and I think that's the the the final thing that I'll comment on outside of the summary is the trust. I mentioned it earlier. Right. So and you about it any and I'm not going to name any particular brand or franchise or whatever I'm to say you trust right.

 

01;03;01;12 - 01;03;18;22

So you go into a place and you've got to you got to consider the people who are working in certain places, whether their level of knowledge to where they're advising and why they're advising it. Right. So you talked about selling, talked about you talked about some of these things where it's going to be marketed in some capacity to influence the outcome, the purchase.

 

01;03;18;25 - 01;03;45;21

Right. Right. The motive there is probably more driven to the individual's ability or incentive to direct you towards a particular product. And we have to understand that that it's we're talking about you. We're talking about your family, we're talking about your safety, we're talking about your health. So let's make sure that first things first, the basics are to introduce what you can have access to.

 

01;03;45;21 - 01;04;09;14

That is, for context, less harmful rights of water, hydration, food stuffs and all that stuff. It's when you get into the to the last component to where you start to add things to it, know who you're talking to, trust them through verifying. All right. And so you're talking about what you said is for those organizations, third party inspectors and things that.

 

01;04;09;16 - 01;04;28;25

But where are you going? Trust, too. You're speaking with the same way that you would feel like you can trust the family member, right? Yeah. Yeah. I'll do this right out of work for me. Okay. Maybe now I'll take that into consideration, and I'm going to go check with somebody that knows for sure. Because for me, I want to make sure that it's not going to put myself into harm's.

 

01;04;28;27 - 01;05;02;14

Right? Exactly. Yeah. Speak to a dietitian, your physician, even I would recommend a dietitian if you can. But physicians would be someone who I would seek for, like deficiencies and things. And then maybe you could work with a dietitian as well to help see what would be a quality supplement. But again, like supplementation is the last consideration. So we don't we don't really need to think about this if our diet is crap, Right.

 

01;05;02;14 - 01;05;20;14

Well, that's the thing. And and you don't realize it is because you didn't do you didn't do the little bit of effort that goes up front to understand what the basic foundations can include. And you now become more aware of the values and the benefits which hopefully this conversation introduced. Couple of nuggets for people to realize. It's pretty simple.

 

01;05;20;14 - 01;05;41;14

If you just take if you know what to look for and what to ask and who to speak with. But I think finally, if you think about it, the easy, the easy consumerism element is to say, Oh yeah, I feel that way. Go get an energy drink that'll pump you up and you'll be good to go right? Well, everything that we just talked about, you could be undermining all of those things because now it could.

 

01;05;41;21 - 01;06;14;27

Like anything else, you've food yourself or you've convinced on, say for yourself, you convinced yourself to believe that that's an element that you can incorporate in your habit, which is taking you away from the core of what you need to do for your body at your age, in your environment and all these types of things. So exactly. And like if you are meeting like an energy drink or coffee because you're you're sluggish or your drag and by the afternoon, like, I think that's a great time to be like, let me reflect on what I've been doing.

 

01;06;14;29 - 01;06;37;21

Something's probably missing. Yeah, why am I feeling that way? So, yeah, on the go influences decision making, which is also influenced by a lack of nutrition. So again, you know, you got to think about why you're thinking about it, which is this redundant, cyclic approach to knowing yourself better so you don't do easy. Easy is not all the time the choice that you want to make.

 

01;06;37;24 - 01;07;21;16

Mm hmm. Okay, great. Anything else? There's a lot of things, but yeah, these. I think this is a good, like, foundational, high level overview. Like these. These are good places to start hydration and then looking at your meal and stack composition, I think those are good places to start and everything else is fine tuning. Yep. Gotcha. So it's it's the three, three simple areas to focus on the foundations and then some of the other areas you can consider on you know, so the sleep and the rest making sure you're getting that because it has an, an impact, it affects you avoid the things that prevent that.

 

01;07;21;22 - 01;07;44;22

So whatever it is, you know, alcohol or stress or, you know, other factors that we did talk about with John, you know, the TV and these distract these mental can have you thinking about things too much before you go to bed and things like that. You want you want rest and recovery and then the hydration assists with that along with getting the nutrients to the body.

 

01;07;44;29 - 01;08;07;10

Right. And I'm saying that at a high level because I'm not you. Right. But you know, you got to send it. So drink, drink fluids and then the macros, the carbs, the proteins, the fats, the fruits and veggies, coloring matters, the balance matters. Knowing what's in each of these things at certain times based off your activity level, which is going back to the other conversations of the goals and the planning.

 

01;08;07;12 - 01;08;26;19

And when you understand what you're trying to achieve, you know how to split it up and you know when you're going to become familiar and then you dial it in, the more that you do it, the repetitions that you put into it, the better the habit forming situation you find yourself in. So you can now look at it holistically and say, Is it working or not?

 

01;08;26;19 - 01;08;41;05

In these scenarios, I know my base, I've increase my baseline based off my activity levels, which is increase because now I understand what I'm putting in my body. I know what the output is going to come to. I know how to make sure I'm putting things back where they need to be when, when they need to be there.

 

01;08;41;07 - 01;09;31;18

And then finally the supplementation. It's an option, but be specific, be intentional, educate yourself, find the right source of information. You make a choice. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Nutrition. Nutrition is key and being consistent is key. And being intentional is key. So be intentional about fueling your body with the foods and the liquids that it needs to optimize your performance and be intentional about the foods or the liquids that you don't necessarily fuel your goal or fuel your performance, but the things that you truly enjoy because that for me helps my mindset too, which wraps into all the other three pillars.

 

01;09;31;20 - 01;10;03;01

Yeah, no, it's it's easy to connect. I mean, all of you that have spoken to this with Exos, all of you within Exos, we've spoken to these things. It makes sense and the logical order plus the consistency in the terms you're using. It demonstrates the discipline that you all have towards understanding what it is that somebody like me would come into this situation and talking to somebody like you and not know you're helping that you're speaking at our level, you're coming to our level to be able to help us understand where we're at.

 

01;10;03;03 - 01;10;30;20

And and you're right, I'm sure there's tons more that you could get into, but I will say that. And so any any closing remarks? No, thank you. Thank you for having me. This was awesome. And I'm looking forward to hearing all the other intelligent Exos employees because you've already had some very smart people on this podcast. So I learned just from listening to them.

 

01;10;30;20 - 01;11;03;07

So it's been great. Thank you for letting me share a little bit of the cable. Keep it simple. Stupid information that I have now. You're solid and you are in that class, so I appreciate you your time, the knowledge you shared, or the information you shared, hopefully to build knowledge for anybody listening, as always. Well, how would if anybody if you're if you're open to it, if anybody was interested in connecting, what are the main methods that one could use?

 

01;11;03;10 - 01;11;28;23

Yeah. LinkedIn's are always an option. I'm happy receive emails. So it's just J. Mason J ASU in Team Access WSJ.com. So feel free to shoot me an email if you have a question or a follow up. Or maybe there's some research. You found that conflict. Something that I said. I love to see it. Send it to me. Got it.

 

01;11;28;27 - 01;11;32;17

Thank you so much, Jana. All right, everyone, keep moving forward.

Did you know…about 50-70 million Americans suffer from some sort of sleep disorder? If you average less than 6 hours of sleep per day you are 7.5 times to have a higher BMI. Yes, sleep is important for a variety of reasons. Ever wonder how you may find ways to connect what you do and how it affects sleep and how sleep affects what you do? We have it here. This one is for all levels and is essentially an above-average explanation of how sleep works by walking us through layers of details to explain cause and effect, motor control, memory, focus, immune system…any kind of cognitive function and sets it up with actionable items to connect how to optimize sleep and performance.

 

From individuals, athletes, to businesses or military…seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve.

 

- https://teamexos.com/

- https://www.linkedin.com/company/exos/

- https://www.teamexos.com/athlete/military

- https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-stemmerman-8a29969/

- sunderwood@teamexos.com

- ahobgood@teamexos.com

- https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-andrews-institute/

- http://www.andrewsinstitute.com/

- https://andrewsref.org/

- https://andrewsref.org/donate/

 

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Episode Transcript:

00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;16

 

You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized missions and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this fourth episode of our XO series, I'm joined by our guest, John STEMMER Min, senior vice president of Performance at Exos.

 

00;00;28;18 - 00;00;46;26

 

Did you know about 50 to 70 million Americans suffer from some sort of sleep disorder? Or how about if you have less than 6 hours of sleep, you are seven times more likely to have a higher BMI? Yep. Sleep is important for a variety of reasons. Ever wonder how you may find ways to connect what you do and how it affects sleep and how sleep affects what you do?

 

00;00;46;27 - 00;01;07;11

 

We have it here. This one is for all levels and is essentially an above average explanation of how sleep works. By walking us through layers of details to explain cause and effect, motor control, memory focused immune system and any cognitive functions, and sets it up with actionable items to connect how to optimize sleep and performance from individuals, athletes to businesses or military.

 

00;01;07;12 - 00;01;23;25

 

Seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve. John's contact details are in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. John How's it going?

 

00;01;23;27 - 00;01;28;16

Speaker 2

Chris It's it's great to be here. Thank you for having me. Excited to dive into this topic.

 

00;01;28;23 - 00;01;58;18

 

Oh, you bet. No, it's pleasure and I appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to come in here and share with us what we're talking about today is sleep. So, John Steadman, SVP of Performance from Exos, coming here to share not only a little bit about himself, how he came to be, where he where he is, like we had with Anthony and Stephan from our previous episodes and how it correlates to the, I assume, the purpose and the passion of the role that he's in and the desire to be able to extend it beyond the small circles.

 

00;01;58;18 - 00;02;11;18

 

And as far as the reach can be within Exos through clients and brand that's being built off the expertise of everybody that works there. So, John, if you wouldn't mind, take some time and let us know more about you.

 

00;02;11;21 - 00;02;12;08

Speaker 2

Appreciate that.

 

00;02;12;08 - 00;02;14;00

 

So I.

 

00;02;14;02 - 00;02;16;08

Speaker 2

Come from a Navy family, so I was actually born.

 

00;02;16;08 - 00;02;18;17

 

In Puerto Rico on a.

 

00;02;18;17 - 00;02;25;16

Speaker 2

Navy installation there. My dad had recently retired. I was stationed there. Both my parents were in the Navy.

 

00;02;25;19 - 00;02;27;00

 

Ended up moving to.

 

00;02;27;00 - 00;02;34;00

Speaker 2

Tampa, which I say I'm from in most conversations. Everybody asked me where I'm from in Tampa, Florida, and so.

 

00;02;34;07 - 00;02;37;17

 

I grew up doing a lot of things that probably a lot of.

 

00;02;37;17 - 00;02;38;22

Speaker 2

Your listeners.

 

00;02;38;24 - 00;02;47;19

 

Are doing. But I was very average in athletics. I played football player, did wrestling, did a lot of outdoor time.

 

00;02;47;19 - 00;02;49;26

Speaker 2

With my father. So hunting and fishing.

 

00;02;49;29 - 00;02;58;16

 

And that was probably the bulk of what I did growing up. I also loved working out and it was probably more for what?

 

00;02;58;19 - 00;03;00;08

Speaker 2

Because I think we're probably close to the same.

 

00;03;00;08 - 00;03;02;12

 

Age, but probably more.

 

00;03;02;12 - 00;03;08;21

Speaker 2

For the esthetic purposes and probably some of the sports performances versus where we are today in a.

 

00;03;08;21 - 00;03;11;02

 

Very.

 

00;03;11;05 - 00;03;14;06

Speaker 2

Kind of advanced CIMA performance optimization world.

 

00;03;14;07 - 00;03;16;20

 

Now. And you.

 

00;03;16;20 - 00;03;17;12

Speaker 2

May remember some of the.

 

00;03;17;12 - 00;03;19;21

 

Stuff, you know, the reader entering.

 

00;03;19;21 - 00;03;20;28

Speaker 2

£10 weight said.

 

00;03;21;00 - 00;03;21;05

 

That.

 

00;03;21;05 - 00;03;23;17

Speaker 2

Was in the porch of the garage and the bench.

 

00;03;23;17 - 00;03;27;23

 

That, you know, would normally fall apart.

 

00;03;27;25 - 00;03;31;20

 

And some of some of the weights with the sand inside the place, Right?

 

00;03;31;24 - 00;03;33;27

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's exactly right.

 

00;03;34;00 - 00;03;35;00

 

And had my.

 

00;03;35;00 - 00;03;37;12

Speaker 2

Muscle and fitness I would pick up at the grocery store every.

 

00;03;37;12 - 00;03;38;15

 

Day and you know.

 

00;03;38;15 - 00;03;40;01

Speaker 2

Joe readers ultimate bodybuilding.

 

00;03;40;01 - 00;03;41;14

 

So that was probably.

 

00;03;41;14 - 00;03;43;19

Speaker 2

The genesis of.

 

00;03;43;22 - 00;03;45;03

 

How I got into human.

 

00;03;45;03 - 00;03;50;12

Speaker 2

Performance. And at that point, it wasn't it wasn't the catalyst. It's I wanted to look decent with my shirt off.

 

00;03;50;12 - 00;03;51;10

 

And do a little bit.

 

00;03;51;10 - 00;03;52;18

Speaker 2

Better the sports.

 

00;03;52;21 - 00;03;55;12

 

That I was into.

 

00;03;55;14 - 00;03;57;15

Speaker 2

And as I was.

 

00;03;57;15 - 00;03;59;06

 

Kind of growing up and.

 

00;03;59;09 - 00;04;07;24

Speaker 2

Graduated high school, went to college, started kind of just getting my prerequisites underneath my belt, went to a community college, actually.

 

00;04;07;27 - 00;04;10;01

 

Before figuring out what I really wanted to.

 

00;04;10;01 - 00;04;11;28

Speaker 2

Do, was working full time.

 

00;04;12;00 - 00;04;13;15

 

Around that and.

 

00;04;13;15 - 00;04;15;06

Speaker 2

Finally realized that there's this.

 

00;04;15;12 - 00;04;18;18

 

Actually kind of growing job field where working.

 

00;04;18;18 - 00;04;20;09

Speaker 2

Out can be your job. And so.

 

00;04;20;16 - 00;04;20;17

 

I.

 

00;04;20;22 - 00;04;27;20

Speaker 2

Went to school for Physical education, got my degree from the University of South Florida. One of my internships.

 

00;04;27;20 - 00;04;29;02

 

Out of there landed me.

 

00;04;29;02 - 00;04;34;05

Speaker 2

And a location Sarasota, this small private gym, but it was also international coach.

 

00;04;34;05 - 00;04;35;21

 

For Olympic weightlifting.

 

00;04;35;24 - 00;04;38;29

Speaker 2

And his name's Rick Lansky, so he'd be one of my mentors.

 

00;04;39;01 - 00;04;39;29

 

Growing up.

 

00;04;40;02 - 00;04;52;08

Speaker 2

My internship turned into a job, which also turned into an introduction to another one of my mentors. His name's Jeff Stone, and that was with the Lassie Sports Performance, which was mostly at youth focused franchise model.

 

00;04;52;08 - 00;04;53;03

 

For for.

 

00;04;53;03 - 00;04;57;05

Speaker 2

Performance. It's been quite a few years there.

 

00;04;57;08 - 00;04;58;21

 

And some really other great.

 

00;04;58;21 - 00;04;59;15

Speaker 2

Mentors Corey.

 

00;04;59;15 - 00;05;02;01

 

Goodwin, Nathan Hoyt, and then.

 

00;05;02;03 - 00;05;03;12

Speaker 2

Just his own.

 

00;05;03;14 - 00;05;03;22

 

New.

 

00;05;03;22 - 00;05;09;27

Speaker 2

Mark Verstegen, Mark Steyn is the founder of Exos. So I started as Athletes performance in 1999.

 

00;05;09;29 - 00;05;10;08

 

And.

 

00;05;10;08 - 00;05;13;03

Speaker 2

Basically Jeff and Mark got the band back together and Jeff brought.

 

00;05;13;03 - 00;05;14;17

 

Me along.

 

00;05;14;19 - 00;05;15;23

Speaker 2

And kind of this inflection.

 

00;05;15;23 - 00;05;18;27

 

Point of kind of growth trajectory.

 

00;05;18;27 - 00;05;21;27

Speaker 2

For access at the time.

 

00;05;22;00 - 00;05;24;29

 

So that's kind of how I landed where I am.

 

00;05;25;01 - 00;05;32;26

Speaker 2

I've been there 17 years now, so I started with the organization in 26, pretty much a lowly strength coach performance specialist at the time.

 

00;05;32;26 - 00;05;34;07

 

And worked my way through.

 

00;05;34;07 - 00;05;36;11

Speaker 2

Various leadership positions.

 

00;05;36;12 - 00;05;39;04

 

And you know, where I am.

 

00;05;39;10 - 00;05;41;17

Speaker 2

Today is.

 

00;05;41;19 - 00;05;46;09

 

A very passionate role with a company that.

 

00;05;46;11 - 00;05;49;21

Speaker 2

Puts people first but humans first and.

 

00;05;49;23 - 00;05;50;27

 

Really is.

 

00;05;50;29 - 00;05;53;28

Speaker 2

You know, as Anthony realized before, seeking to understand.

 

00;05;54;01 - 00;05;55;03

 

How can we help.

 

00;05;55;06 - 00;05;58;19

Speaker 2

The person that shows up in front of us as well to.

 

00;05;58;22 - 00;06;01;12

 

In there. I've done a fair amount of work with kind of our.

 

00;06;01;12 - 00;06;05;17

Speaker 2

Tactical populations, whether that's through or some of our education.

 

00;06;05;20 - 00;06;06;18

 

That we've delivered.

 

00;06;06;19 - 00;06;16;01

Speaker 2

I spent a fair amount of time managing one of our first human performance contracts, which was part of the preservation of force and family, which was a so-called wide initiative.

 

00;06;16;04 - 00;06;17;09

 

We were one of the.

 

00;06;17;09 - 00;06;19;25

Speaker 2

Companies that supported. So basically.

 

00;06;19;25 - 00;06;20;24

 

Hiring.

 

00;06;20;26 - 00;06;24;21

Speaker 2

Practitioners across all domains to support that.

 

00;06;24;23 - 00;06;27;12

 

As well too. And I really do have a.

 

00;06;27;12 - 00;06;29;29

Speaker 2

Passion for the tactical space.

 

00;06;30;02 - 00;06;33;09

 

Coming from a military family and.

 

00;06;33;11 - 00;06;34;29

Speaker 2

Never had a chance to serve myself.

 

00;06;34;29 - 00;06;36;01

 

But have a really.

 

00;06;36;01 - 00;06;37;12

Speaker 2

Deep appreciation for.

 

00;06;37;12 - 00;06;38;14

 

People who are willing to put it.

 

00;06;38;14 - 00;06;49;16

Speaker 2

On the line as well as the family members that support them. And then even down to some events, we've run for Gold Star families in launching other kind of smaller contracts in.

 

00;06;49;19 - 00;06;49;28

 

Kind of.

 

00;06;49;28 - 00;06;53;29

Speaker 2

Backwoods European countries in support of DOD initiatives.

 

00;06;53;29 - 00;06;58;01

 

Where you're washing out a old garage.

 

00;06;58;01 - 00;06;59;20

Speaker 2

With fire hoses to set up.

 

00;06;59;20 - 00;07;00;04

 

Kind of.

 

00;07;00;04 - 00;07;01;11

Speaker 2

A austere training.

 

00;07;01;11 - 00;07;03;19

 

Environment and kind of.

 

00;07;03;22 - 00;07;05;00

Speaker 2

You know, those are some of the.

 

00;07;05;00 - 00;07;05;08

 

More.

 

00;07;05;08 - 00;07;06;11

Speaker 2

Interesting and.

 

00;07;06;15 - 00;07;06;23

 

Fun.

 

00;07;06;23 - 00;07;07;20

Speaker 2

Or times that I think.

 

00;07;07;20 - 00;07;09;13

 

I've had in my career.

 

00;07;09;15 - 00;07;39;07

 

You're setting it up. Those are a lot of the areas to where our people believe training used to be. So let's go back to what you started to talk about, because back in those days, people say eighties, nineties, the mindset was always trained. You never really you never really heard about sleep. I mean, you heard maybe about nutrition and that's when that nutrition, fad, fad, it's probably not a fad, but it's, you know back then it was, it was the saying, you know, all these nutrition supplement stores were coming and opening up and things like that.

 

00;07;39;10 - 00;08;07;28

 

Flex Magazine, Muscle and Fitness, you know, your magazine, all of those all of those sources of information obviously had to say pay for themselves. But they would have now the marketing and those elements to where there was a push to understand there was more along the lines of working out and how the supplements would work. But not a lot of information surrounding how you can sleep, how rest played, a factor in even between sets and things like that, because you had a bunch of different styles.

 

00;08;07;28 - 00;08;26;14

 

So the evolution of it all, we've heard from Steph and Anthony and now we'll hear from you how it all connects. So setting up between the plan, the nutrition element, let's let's get into it. So sleep, how do you how do you incorporate that?

 

00;08;26;17 - 00;08;27;08

 

Yeah.

 

00;08;27;10 - 00;08;28;06

Speaker 2

Let's, let's kind of.

 

00;08;28;06 - 00;08;28;22

 

Paint a real.

 

00;08;28;22 - 00;08;35;15

Speaker 2

Good picture just to have some context. So we've got to kind of the movement side that Anthony talked about. We're going to hit sleep, which is going to be a key.

 

00;08;35;17 - 00;08;37;12

 

Probably the number one recovery strategy.

 

00;08;37;12 - 00;08;39;04

Speaker 2

And I'm going to get into some of the details around.

 

00;08;39;04 - 00;08;40;08

 

That.

 

00;08;40;10 - 00;08;44;06

Speaker 2

Nutrition is a key one like we've already talked about. There's all this also is.

 

00;08;44;06 - 00;08;45;11

 

Idea that will be in.

 

00;08;45;11 - 00;08;52;27

Speaker 2

In some of our future episodes of reflection and basically values, motivators goals.

 

00;08;52;29 - 00;08;55;16

 

And you be aware of what's happening and in the.

 

00;08;55;18 - 00;09;03;08

Speaker 2

Real time awareness, how can you proactively set your up for success and reactively? Think about things like an air show as the completion of your day. Do you do.

 

00;09;03;08 - 00;09;04;23

 

An air of What did I do.

 

00;09;04;23 - 00;09;21;09

Speaker 2

Well today? What did I do? What today? What can I do better tomorrow? And then regulation, which I'll touch on a little bit in this probably just because it's a great strategy to support sleep. But how can you actually utilizing different strategies, leverage your nervous system to either Upregulate or Downregulate? So those are some key areas I would talk about.

 

00;09;21;09 - 00;09;23;12

 

So we're going.

 

00;09;23;12 - 00;09;26;27

Speaker 2

To dive into sleep, but those are kind of the main components that our team thinks about when.

 

00;09;26;27 - 00;09;27;12

 

We're putting.

 

00;09;27;12 - 00;09;28;17

Speaker 2

Things together as well too.

 

00;09;28;17 - 00;09;30;12

 

But yeah.

 

00;09;30;12 - 00;09;35;06

Speaker 2

We get into it in just, just for the audience. I'm not a sleep scientists.

 

00;09;35;09 - 00;09;37;29

 

I'm not a doctor or anything like that.

 

00;09;37;29 - 00;09;42;00

Speaker 2

Kind of the main sources that I've gotten this from and I'd recommend you checking this out.

 

00;09;42;03 - 00;09;42;11

 

Now.

 

00;09;42;11 - 00;09;42;27

Speaker 2

Walker is.

 

00;09;42;27 - 00;09;45;15

 

A really well known.

 

00;09;45;17 - 00;09;46;28

Speaker 2

Voice out there on sleep.

 

00;09;46;28 - 00;09;49;12

 

Probably the the eminent.

 

00;09;49;14 - 00;09;50;03

Speaker 2

Voice out there.

 

00;09;50;03 - 00;09;55;21

 

Currently, he's got a book out there called Why Why We Sleep. And he's.

 

00;09;55;21 - 00;09;57;13

Speaker 2

A professor of neuroscience and psychology.

 

00;09;57;18 - 00;09;58;00

 

Founder.

 

00;09;58;01 - 00;10;02;03

Speaker 2

Director of Center for Human Sleep Science. We've also got some information from the National Institute for.

 

00;10;02;03 - 00;10;02;16

 

Health.

 

00;10;02;17 - 00;10;05;17

Speaker 2

And the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke. So those are kind of.

 

00;10;05;17 - 00;10;06;18

 

Three of our.

 

00;10;06;20 - 00;10;11;01

Speaker 2

Kind of main sources of the information. But essentially we.

 

00;10;11;01 - 00;10;11;26

 

Pulled and kind of.

 

00;10;12;01 - 00;10;14;16

Speaker 2

Brought this into a place where we can use that information and then.

 

00;10;14;16 - 00;10;16;20

 

Go forward and help somebody in.

 

00;10;16;20 - 00;10;18;29

Speaker 2

Front of us. Almost out of some questions.

 

00;10;18;29 - 00;10;22;12

 

And I know I know a little bit of your background and not a lot.

 

00;10;22;15 - 00;10;23;16

Speaker 2

How many hours of sleep do you.

 

00;10;23;16 - 00;10;25;24

 

Get per night on average.

 

00;10;25;26 - 00;10;26;26

 

Of.

 

00;10;26;28 - 00;10;36;04

Speaker 2

5 hours. So that doesn't surprise me a whole bunch when I get some stats here in a second. The intention is not to raise any fire alarms or anything like that, but just knowing you.

 

00;10;36;04 - 00;10;39;01

 

Have a bit of background in in the.

 

00;10;39;01 - 00;10;41;01

Speaker 2

Armed forces, it doesn't surprise me.

 

00;10;41;01 - 00;10;43;02

 

Either as that of like a.

 

00;10;43;02 - 00;10;43;11

Speaker 2

Nurture.

 

00;10;43;11 - 00;10;44;16

 

Standpoint or maybe a.

 

00;10;44;16 - 00;10;47;15

Speaker 2

Nature standpoint, like a genetic predisposition.

 

00;10;47;17 - 00;10;48;01

 

Do you know.

 

00;10;48;01 - 00;10;54;04

Speaker 2

Of any strategies to optimize sleep personally? Like if you're trying to get to sleep, do you have anything that you know that you can do, you can.

 

00;10;54;04 - 00;10;55;19

 

Pull out of your pocket that.

 

00;10;55;19 - 00;10;56;04

Speaker 2

You can try to.

 

00;10;56;04 - 00;10;57;02

 

Implement?

 

00;10;57;04 - 00;11;10;20

 

Yeah. So dark cover my eyes, obviously. Silence. Staying away from the light, either TV or phone within the time frame about an hour.

 

00;11;10;22 - 00;11;12;10

Speaker 2

So that's that's a lot of keep on zoom.

 

00;11;12;10 - 00;11;13;17

 

So my.

 

00;11;13;17 - 00;11;16;16

Speaker 2

Hope is we're going to go through this is what is sleep so.

 

00;11;16;16 - 00;11;18;01

 

Give a bit of a framework of what.

 

00;11;18;08 - 00;11;20;04

Speaker 2

Sleep actually is.

 

00;11;20;07 - 00;11;21;22

 

I think people intuitively know.

 

00;11;21;22 - 00;11;22;10

Speaker 2

What it is.

 

00;11;22;10 - 00;11;23;09

 

But give a little.

 

00;11;23;09 - 00;11;33;24

Speaker 2

Bit more details around it, why it's important that we sleep, and then some optimization strategies or concepts as well too. So that's kind of the journey I hope to take us on is what is it, why is it.

 

00;11;33;24 - 00;11;37;23

 

Important and how do you optimize it?

 

00;11;37;25 - 00;11;40;02

Speaker 2

Would you consider yourself you're probably turning into this.

 

00;11;40;04 - 00;11;43;16

 

A morning lark or a night owl?

 

00;11;43;19 - 00;11;45;00

 

Morning.

 

00;11;45;03 - 00;11;46;02

Speaker 2

So you're a person. I get so.

 

00;11;46;03 - 00;11;46;28

 

Probably early in the.

 

00;11;46;28 - 00;11;48;03

Speaker 2

Morning, just probably.

 

00;11;48;03 - 00;11;49;17

 

Without an alarm clock or anything like.

 

00;11;49;17 - 00;11;52;10

Speaker 2

That is is probably the situation.

 

00;11;52;10 - 00;11;54;12

 

For you. That is So we'll.

 

00;11;54;12 - 00;11;58;05

Speaker 2

Talk about that too. There's a genetic predisposition towards is people like yourself who.

 

00;11;58;05 - 00;12;00;16

 

Get up earlier in the morning naturally.

 

00;12;00;18 - 00;12;11;28

Speaker 2

Night owls which everybody's probably heard of people that tend to stay up later and sleep in later. And then there's kind of a blended between and it's kind of relatively evenly across thirds across population.

 

00;12;12;00 - 00;12;13;14

 

There'll be some evolutionary.

 

00;12;13;17 - 00;12;15;09

Speaker 2

Things around that. So if you imagine back.

 

00;12;15;09 - 00;12;17;08

 

In the cave, you got people I wake up.

 

00;12;17;08 - 00;12;18;28

Speaker 2

Early so they can keep an eye out on the rest of.

 

00;12;18;28 - 00;12;21;06

 

The clan or the tribe. You got.

 

00;12;21;06 - 00;12;24;08

Speaker 2

People that stay up late to kind of keep an eye on the rest of the tribe.

 

00;12;24;08 - 00;12;25;05

 

And then they kind of people in the.

 

00;12;25;05 - 00;12;27;14

Speaker 2

Middle. So sleep is.

 

00;12;27;14 - 00;12;28;26

 

Very.

 

00;12;28;28 - 00;12;30;16

Speaker 2

Precarious position.

 

00;12;30;18 - 00;12;33;20

 

Back in history of laying down for 8 hours.

 

00;12;33;22 - 00;12;35;09

Speaker 2

5 to 8 hours and sleeping.

 

00;12;35;09 - 00;12;36;08

 

In.

 

00;12;36;11 - 00;12;38;26

Speaker 2

A forest or environment where saber tooth cats.

 

00;12;38;26 - 00;12;41;12

 

And other tribe members are.

 

00;12;41;13 - 00;12;44;09

Speaker 2

Walking around. So some of the things are interesting.

 

00;12;44;09 - 00;12;44;27

 

Of kind of.

 

00;12;44;27 - 00;12;46;10

Speaker 2

Those differentials in waking.

 

00;12;46;10 - 00;12;48;10

 

Time and sleep and.

 

00;12;48;12 - 00;12;58;28

Speaker 2

Going to sleep times actually kind of have some evolutionary backgrounds to it. But here's some stats. Again, they're probably going to sound negative across the board is not intended to kind.

 

00;12;58;28 - 00;13;00;16

 

Of be a.

 

00;13;00;18 - 00;13;02;11

Speaker 2

Doomsday situation, but.

 

00;13;02;14 - 00;13;03;12

 

About 5070.

 

00;13;03;12 - 00;13;04;26

Speaker 2

Million Americans suffer from disordered.

 

00;13;04;26 - 00;13;07;00

 

Sleep. If you look at Three Mile Island.

 

00;13;07;00 - 00;13;23;14

Speaker 2

Chernobyl, Exxon Valdez, Space Shuttle Challenger, most of them have been found to have some sort of impact of sleep deficiency around those environments or situations. Since the industrial revolution, we've had about a 20% decrease in sleep.

 

00;13;23;15 - 00;13;24;10

 

Time.

 

00;13;24;12 - 00;13;27;18

Speaker 2

As a population for the most part.

 

00;13;27;20 - 00;13;28;18

 

If you think about one.

 

00;13;28;18 - 00;13;31;10

Speaker 2

Third of our lives are spent sleeping.

 

00;13;31;12 - 00;13;33;03

 

Which might be.

 

00;13;33;05 - 00;13;38;26

Speaker 2

Kind of like, Hey, this is a waste of time. But when we talk about the benefits, I think people will maybe change your mind.

 

00;13;38;28 - 00;13;39;20

 

If you have less.

 

00;13;39;20 - 00;14;03;08

Speaker 2

Than 6 hours of sleep, seven and a half times more likely to have a higher BMI as body mass index and also a three time greater risk of a coronary event, less than 5 hours of sleep increase of about 15% for all cause mortality, 20% increase in motor vehicle injuries, mostly around this kind of ideas of shift workers.

 

00;14;03;16 - 00;14;04;06

 

Or.

 

00;14;04;07 - 00;14;05;16

Speaker 2

Declining sleep.

 

00;14;05;18 - 00;14;06;17

 

And probably a lot of.

 

00;14;06;17 - 00;14;07;25

Speaker 2

Individuals from.

 

00;14;07;25 - 00;14;08;14

 

Your world or your.

 

00;14;08;14 - 00;14;12;04

Speaker 2

Population that have had to do their sleep patterns based off.

 

00;14;12;04 - 00;14;12;19

 

Of, you.

 

00;14;12;19 - 00;14;14;15

Speaker 2

Know, operational requirements or.

 

00;14;14;23 - 00;14;17;05

 

Shift work or whatever it might be.

 

00;14;17;07 - 00;14;24;20

Speaker 2

But about a 20% increase in motor vehicle injuries around daylight savings time. And that is just like in one hour shifts in that kind of sleep. And you see this kind of uptick.

 

00;14;24;20 - 00;14;26;16

 

In motor vehicle.

 

00;14;26;16 - 00;14;34;03

Speaker 2

Injuries. So indirect costs of this 1995 direct cost of a kind of sleep deficiency was around 13.

 

00;14;34;03 - 00;14;34;28

 

Point 9 billion.

 

00;14;34;28 - 00;14;38;25

Speaker 2

Dollars. In the US, indirect costs.

 

00;14;38;26 - 00;14;39;14

 

Around 100.

 

00;14;39;14 - 00;14;39;29

Speaker 2

And 50.

 

00;14;39;29 - 00;14;41;26

 

Billion per year.

 

00;14;41;28 - 00;14;59;15

Speaker 2

So this is medical costs around certain things. So kind of there's a direct financial impacts around sleep as well too. So just kind of some some stats to to put forward why we think sleep is so important. The inverse of all this is obviously you have better health outcomes.

 

00;14;59;15 - 00;14;59;29

 

Better.

 

00;15;00;09 - 00;15;01;03

Speaker 2

Down into function.

 

00;15;01;03 - 00;15;02;06

 

Better.

 

00;15;02;08 - 00;15;03;06

Speaker 2

Performance.

 

00;15;03;06 - 00;15;04;07

 

Better many.

 

00;15;04;07 - 00;15;04;15

Speaker 2

Things.

 

00;15;04;15 - 00;15;06;26

 

So yeah.

 

00;15;06;28 - 00;15;16;14

Speaker 2

So probably this kind of idea of what sleep is. So there's basically this idea of a circadian rhythm. I'm sure everybody sort of circadian rhythm is this natural.

 

00;15;16;14 - 00;15;19;06

 

Biological clock that the body.

 

00;15;19;06 - 00;15;43;21

Speaker 2

Has that is regulated by a few different functions. It's roughly 24 hours. It's just happenstance that the Earth's rotation is also 24 hours. And the sunrises and sunsets, you know, kind of those 12 to 16 hour marks outside of being in extreme latitudes and everything like that. So daylight or sunlight is kind of one of these.

 

00;15;43;21 - 00;15;44;27

 

Key.

 

00;15;44;29 - 00;15;47;09

Speaker 2

Triggers for sleep.

 

00;15;47;11 - 00;15;48;03

 

And you're probably like, well.

 

00;15;48;03 - 00;15;53;00

Speaker 2

Why should we sleep? So essentially this idea of maintaining homeostasis homeostasis is.

 

00;15;53;00 - 00;15;54;20

 

Abundant and all living.

 

00;15;54;20 - 00;15;58;09

Speaker 2

Things of when you get too hot, your body sweats to try to cool.

 

00;15;58;09 - 00;16;00;05

 

You down.

 

00;16;00;07 - 00;16;02;25

Speaker 2

So being able to balance things out.

 

00;16;02;27 - 00;16;03;10

 

We want to be.

 

00;16;03;10 - 00;16;14;06

Speaker 2

Able to kind of get to both ends of those things depending on the situation. But the body's always trying to find its balance on things. So sleep is one of those ways to balance out all the things that we go.

 

00;16;14;06 - 00;16;16;19

 

Through when we're awake.

 

00;16;16;22 - 00;16;34;16

Speaker 2

So sunlight, sunrises, as it basically starts to hit this little bundle of nerves in the hypothalamus suprachiasmatic nucleus, it's basically sampling light as it comes into your eyes and it basically starts to kick off all these processes and keeps your clock on time, essentially. So your circadian.

 

00;16;34;16 - 00;16;34;26

 

Rhythm.

 

00;16;34;26 - 00;16;36;26

Speaker 2

Or your clock is basically reset.

 

00;16;36;26 - 00;16;38;09

 

Every day with.

 

00;16;38;12 - 00;16;47;14

Speaker 2

This light stimulus coming in to the eye. And I kind of talked about the morning larks and the night owls. So we have different circadian rhythms for different people, right? So it's not an absolute there's very.

 

00;16;47;14 - 00;16;47;29

 

Rarely any.

 

00;16;47;29 - 00;16;50;03

Speaker 2

Absolutes in.

 

00;16;50;05 - 00;16;51;21

 

In human.

 

00;16;51;23 - 00;16;56;17

Speaker 2

Physiology or human performance, but outside of those.

 

00;16;56;17 - 00;16;57;02

 

Genetic.

 

00;16;57;02 - 00;16;59;15

Speaker 2

Waking and sleeping times, there's also.

 

00;16;59;22 - 00;17;00;13

 

Variable work.

 

00;17;00;13 - 00;17;07;12

Speaker 2

Schedules like shift work or military population. You have certain people that have to be all through the night. Some people are.

 

00;17;07;15 - 00;17;08;11

 

All through the day.

 

00;17;08;16 - 00;17;12;21

Speaker 2

And then also changing schedules, especially for like firefighters, etc., where they're like, oh 40.

 

00;17;12;21 - 00;17;13;22

 

Eight on.

 

00;17;13;25 - 00;17;14;20

Speaker 2

72 off.

 

00;17;14;20 - 00;17;16;07

 

Or whatever it might be.

 

00;17;16;09 - 00;17;22;11

Speaker 2

They're basically having to change through these schedules and they're trying to counterbalance this natural clock.

 

00;17;22;13 - 00;17;23;05

 

With a.

 

00;17;23;05 - 00;17;35;00

Speaker 2

Artificial clock that they're trying to impose upon their system that has a really strong influences on physiological processes that are going to make it challenging potentially for people to.

 

00;17;35;02 - 00;17;37;05

 

Not follow that kind of normal clock.

 

00;17;37;07 - 00;17;38;09

Speaker 2

On things as well, too.

 

00;17;38;09 - 00;17;39;03

 

So if we.

 

00;17;39;03 - 00;17;39;25

Speaker 2

Think of sleep.

 

00;17;39;26 - 00;17;40;08

 

We've got.

 

00;17;40;08 - 00;17;41;26

Speaker 2

Two things. We've got arousal.

 

00;17;41;29 - 00;17;43;17

 

And we've got.

 

00;17;43;19 - 00;17;52;20

Speaker 2

Sleepiness, and it's really a dance between multiple processes and hormones in the system. So if we just kind of take it.

 

00;17;52;20 - 00;17;54;08

 

To, you know, we're getting ready.

 

00;17;54;08 - 00;18;07;26

Speaker 2

For me, it's 7 p.m. on the East Coast for you, it's 5 p.m. ish on the West Coast. And so there's going to be a few things that will kind of start with sleepiness. And then I'll talk about wakefulness on the other side of it, since we're kind of on the back end of the day.

 

00;18;07;26 - 00;18;11;01

 

So throughout the course of the day.

 

00;18;11;03 - 00;18;19;19

Speaker 2

As you wake up, there's this hormone is dropped in. Our system is called adenosine. So. DAVIES And starts to accumulate throughout the course of the day.

 

00;18;19;22 - 00;18;20;29

 

Is going to be one of the main.

 

00;18;20;29 - 00;18;21;21

Speaker 2

Drivers.

 

00;18;21;21 - 00;18;23;20

 

Of.

 

00;18;23;22 - 00;18;26;28

Speaker 2

Making somebody sleepy. So as you kind of get through the course of the day.

 

00;18;27;00 - 00;18;27;26

 

You're having more and more.

 

00;18;27;26 - 00;18;32;00

Speaker 2

Adenosine get into the system and it basically turns down stimulus.

 

00;18;32;00 - 00;18;33;17

 

Within the body.

 

00;18;33;19 - 00;18;37;11

Speaker 2

And starts to turn on drowsiness.

 

00;18;37;13 - 00;18;39;03

 

What do you think might be.

 

00;18;39;04 - 00;18;40;17

Speaker 2

Something that a lot of people partake.

 

00;18;40;17 - 00;18;41;10

 

Of that might.

 

00;18;41;17 - 00;18;47;29

Speaker 2

Have some sort of relation to adenosine a relationship to it? And so when there's really something that you.

 

00;18;47;29 - 00;18;49;28

 

Might drink or eat.

 

00;18;50;01 - 00;18;52;14

 

Right out of the gate, alcohol.

 

00;18;52;16 - 00;18;53;22

Speaker 2

So alcohol we'll talk about.

 

00;18;53;22 - 00;18;54;24

 

Later, but caffeine.

 

00;18;55;00 - 00;18;55;18

 

Caffeine.

 

00;18;55;20 - 00;18;57;23

 

Okay. So kind of caffeine.

 

00;18;57;23 - 00;19;17;03

Speaker 2

Is something the reason caffeine kind of is one of those things that we go to on a regular basis is it basically blocks the receptors for adenosine. So that's what kind of caffeine does in order to kind of keep us awake, is it puts this block on the receptors in the system that pick up the adenosine, which is kind of getting this sleep urge.

 

00;19;17;03 - 00;19;19;24

Speaker 2

So it's basically this.

 

00;19;19;27 - 00;19;21;10

 

Increasing.

 

00;19;21;12 - 00;19;39;15

Speaker 2

Load of this hormone that's going to drive you to want to sleep. So caffeine puts a block on those. So adenosine doesn't just stop because you put some caffeine to your system. And as many people know and everybody's different, caffeine has this kind of half life of about 5 to 7 hours. So it kind of over the course of the afternoon, let's say you have a.

 

00;19;39;19 - 00;19;40;28

 

3 p.m. coffee.

 

00;19;41;00 - 00;19;46;23

Speaker 2

Basically, it's in your system all the way until 8:00, 9:00, 10:00 at night.

 

00;19;46;26 - 00;19;49;03

 

So you have coffee later than that.

 

00;19;49;05 - 00;20;01;22

Speaker 2

But essentially, adenosine is still accumulating in the system. And once that half life of caffeine wears off, you get hit with this huge surge of headiness in your system. And that kind of brings on this kind of caffeine crash for a lot of people. But that's this is one.

 

00;20;01;22 - 00;20;02;27

 

Of the main hormones.

 

00;20;02;27 - 00;20;10;12

Speaker 2

That's going to kind of put this sleep or sleep impetus or sleep pressure into our system.

 

00;20;10;14 - 00;20;11;28

 

You may have heard of melatonin.

 

00;20;12;00 - 00;20;13;15

Speaker 2

So melatonin is a supplement that a lot of.

 

00;20;13;15 - 00;20;13;29

 

People might.

 

00;20;13;29 - 00;20;15;25

Speaker 2

Use.

 

00;20;15;28 - 00;20;16;07

 

It's a.

 

00;20;16;07 - 00;20;19;27

Speaker 2

Messenger basically to tell the body sun is.

 

00;20;19;27 - 00;20;20;28

 

Going down.

 

00;20;21;01 - 00;20;28;09

Speaker 2

So, you know, within the first kind of couple of hours after the sun goes down, melatonin starts to kick in. It peaks after you go to sleep.

 

00;20;28;12 - 00;20;28;17

 

And.

 

00;20;28;17 - 00;20;31;22

Speaker 2

It doesn't create sleep. It basically is like.

 

00;20;31;26 - 00;20;33;13

 

The gun.

 

00;20;33;13 - 00;20;35;07

Speaker 2

Going off and it triggers. So it's basically the.

 

00;20;35;07 - 00;20;35;26

 

Gun.

 

00;20;35;26 - 00;20;45;25

Speaker 2

Is melatonin. So it doesn't have a direct impact to your sleep. It basically starts to kick off the processes through the system of sleep.

 

00;20;45;28 - 00;20;46;25

 

So sunlight.

 

00;20;46;28 - 00;20;49;22

Speaker 2

Is kind of direct counter to.

 

00;20;49;22 - 00;20;50;15

 

That or.

 

00;20;50;15 - 00;21;01;09

Speaker 2

As you kind of mentioned in some of your strategies, Blue light, which basically replicates sunlight, is something that will directly impact melatonin release. So that's what we're going to talk about when we talk about optimization is.

 

00;21;01;11 - 00;21;04;16

 

The role of blue light, not only natural.

 

00;21;04;16 - 00;21;21;11

Speaker 2

Blue light, so in morning or midday sun, but blue light from devices as well to but melatonin gets released, it starts to tell the rest of the systems in the body, okay, we're going to be going to sleep soon. So start to kind of ramp these things down as we go along. And then this idea of Java sort of it's.

 

00;21;21;16 - 00;21;22;09

 

Duba.

 

00;21;22;11 - 00;21;30;21

Speaker 2

It's another neuro transmitter that basically switches off our wakefulness systems in the body. So those are kind of the three main things as we get at sundown.

 

00;21;30;23 - 00;21;32;02

 

Through the course of the evening.

 

00;21;32;09 - 00;21;35;10

Speaker 2

Into after we lay our head down on the pillow is.

 

00;21;35;12 - 00;21;37;06

 

Kind of the three main.

 

00;21;37;08 - 00;21;38;12

Speaker 2

Hormones that.

 

00;21;38;12 - 00;21;38;23

 

Are going to.

 

00;21;38;29 - 00;21;44;13

Speaker 2

Start to get us into position and fall asleep. One thing's.

 

00;21;44;16 - 00;21;45;02

 

And then on the.

 

00;21;45;02 - 00;22;00;04

Speaker 2

Opposite side of that, we have the system that wakes up and it's important to talk about those because those are some things that people probably hear about too. So there's really that difference between all these hormonal processes, incremental increases in certain things, shutting off of other things as we kind of go.

 

00;22;00;04 - 00;22;03;04

 

Through the day.

 

00;22;03;06 - 00;22;07;20

Speaker 2

So some of the things for waking sunlight is for you waking up. This is called.

 

00;22;07;20 - 00;22;08;08

 

Five.

 

00;22;08;11 - 00;22;09;06

Speaker 2

Or 6 a.m. when.

 

00;22;09;06 - 00;22;11;07

 

You normally wake up.

 

00;22;11;10 - 00;22;19;11

Speaker 2

So histamine, which probably lot of people take around allergies or anything like that, but this starts to activate neurons in the brain that drive arousal and inhibit the neurons that.

 

00;22;19;11 - 00;22;19;23

 

Kind of.

 

00;22;20;01 - 00;22;23;18

Speaker 2

Promote sleep. So that's one thing that starts to get released kind of.

 

00;22;23;20 - 00;22;24;21

 

Early morning.

 

00;22;24;21 - 00;22;30;25

Speaker 2

As we start to get closer to sunrise. Dopamine, which a lot of people have heard about as far as kind of like that pleasure chemical.

 

00;22;30;25 - 00;22;31;26

 

That a lot of people.

 

00;22;31;26 - 00;22;52;26

Speaker 2

Get from various things. And we'll talk about that, too. It starts to turn off melatonin secretion. So basically it is a counter to melatonin. This idea of our Rex in hypo cream. So these are two hormones that get released that stimulate other neurons to release theirs and start to kick on this alertness. Fun facts. Somebody has narcolepsy.

 

00;22;52;29 - 00;22;55;23

 

They likely don't have more.

 

00;22;55;23 - 00;23;03;11

Speaker 2

Than like 10% of those two hormones in their system. So that's like a direct relation to narcolepsy, which is this kind of uncontrollable urge to sleep.

 

00;23;03;14 - 00;23;03;27

 

They don't have.

 

00;23;03;27 - 00;23;14;21

Speaker 2

Enough erection or have a clean English system. So that's kind of what's been attributed to narcolepsy. Serotonin helps regulate body temperature, which body temperature is one of the other key.

 

00;23;14;21 - 00;23;17;21

 

Circadian rhythm markers.

 

00;23;17;23 - 00;23;19;14

Speaker 2

Body temperature rises in the morning.

 

00;23;19;15 - 00;23;21;25

 

That tells your body to wake up.

 

00;23;21;27 - 00;23;28;19

Speaker 2

Body temperature goes down in the evening, tells your body to go to sleep. We're going to talk about temperature as well, too, is kind of one of.

 

00;23;28;20 - 00;23;30;15

 

The.

 

00;23;30;17 - 00;23;44;07

Speaker 2

Optimization strategies, norepinephrine, epinephrine, which are kind of your adrenaline cortisol, which a lot of people probably read, which is a stress hormone. But in this case, it's not stressful to have causal, it's stressful to have cortisol throughout the course of the day because it has a peak in the.

 

00;23;44;07 - 00;23;44;29

 

Morning.

 

00;23;45;01 - 00;24;17;03

Speaker 2

And then it tails off through the course of the day as well too. And then there's a pseudo choline, which we'll also talk about REM sleep, but it's kind of one of the key things around wakefulness as well too. So there's a major dance between homeostatic maintenance, circadian rhythm or a bunch of hormones that are interacting with each other and turning on and turning off certain buttons and levers to basically get us through this sequence of waking, going through the course of the day, getting to the evening, falling asleep, giving our sleep cycle, which I'll talk about.

 

00;24;17;03 - 00;24;18;00

 

Here in a couple.

 

00;24;18;01 - 00;24;23;07

Speaker 2

Minutes, and then going through that process over and over again as we go through our lives.

 

00;24;23;09 - 00;24;41;25

 

A huge chunk. So I mean, and I've said so thanks for breaking it down like that, because it does it walks you through all all the all the words, you know, depends on what your focus has been and what you've tried in the trial and error or trying to find a remedy and try to oh, I'm not doing this.

 

00;24;41;25 - 00;25;14;23

 

So let me get that. And then you research it and you come up with, you know, the melatonin, you know, the cortisol element, the stress, these factors, I'm connecting dots. Some of the things that immediately came up as you were talking through those things that you don't have addressed now. But because might get to them is, you know, if you're having trouble sleeping, how hard do we look at what's happening in the day or are we needing to look deeper into us as individuals from how our composition is in some of those things?

 

00;25;14;23 - 00;25;16;00

 

And obviously the nutrition.

 

00;25;16;00 - 00;25;16;29

Speaker 2

Factor in some of those.

 

00;25;16;29 - 00;25;18;14

 

Elements, it'll be both.

 

00;25;18;15 - 00;25;20;24

Speaker 2

So that stuff is going to be personal, but it also.

 

00;25;20;24 - 00;25;21;09

 

Be.

 

00;25;21;09 - 00;25;22;23

Speaker 2

Environmental as well.

 

00;25;22;26 - 00;25;41;07

 

Yeah, you know, the lights, the light just dawned on me a couple of things of, you know, lights on, lights off and how often you could be disrupted, you know, sleeping in the living room. You know, you have folks with family around, kids around. They're in and out and things like that. So the disruption on that and how you feel tired.

 

00;25;41;10 - 00;26;10;15

 

We can look we have a tendency to look at comfort as the cause of it. Oh, the couch is not comfortable, but it actually is all these other factors that way into that. Then it's the workouts. Just trying to trim this down a little bit. Then then it comes to workouts where if all of these things are going on the way they do, then one would be, you know, the best time to work out based off of what's starting to happen in the morning and then dissipates throughout the day and then turns back on in the evening.

 

00;26;10;18 - 00;26;21;06

 

You know, when when do we think about what we have to consider on optimizing the time of day based off of ourself when we can actually exert ourselves?

 

00;26;21;08 - 00;26;22;10

Speaker 2

You know, there's there's a.

 

00;26;22;10 - 00;26;24;11

 

Lot of a lot of pieces there that we don't need.

 

00;26;24;11 - 00;26;26;00

Speaker 2

To dissect a whole bunch.

 

00;26;26;02 - 00;26;26;20

 

I think one.

 

00;26;26;20 - 00;26;29;06

Speaker 2

Of the things that I came across is if you look at most world records that.

 

00;26;29;06 - 00;26;32;11

 

Are broken and, you know, athletic.

 

00;26;32;11 - 00;26;34;01

Speaker 2

Events, most of them were done in this early.

 

00;26;34;01 - 00;26;35;07

 

Afternoon.

 

00;26;35;09 - 00;26;36;28

Speaker 2

Point where essentially you've gone through training.

 

00;26;36;28 - 00;26;38;00

 

That morning, you probably.

 

00;26;38;00 - 00;26;39;13

Speaker 2

Hit this midday.

 

00;26;39;16 - 00;26;40;00

 

Wall.

 

00;26;40;00 - 00;26;43;05

Speaker 2

Which everybody kind of runs into, and they kind of this kicked back.

 

00;26;43;05 - 00;26;45;07

 

Up of, you know.

 

00;26;45;12 - 00;26;47;09

Speaker 2

Performance capacity.

 

00;26;47;11 - 00;26;49;10

 

That is usually.

 

00;26;49;10 - 00;26;50;27

Speaker 2

Maximized during that period of.

 

00;26;50;27 - 00;26;51;21

 

Time.

 

00;26;51;23 - 00;26;52;09

Speaker 2

That to your.

 

00;26;52;09 - 00;26;57;08

 

Workout is because it's all they're all integrated. They're all they're all.

 

00;26;57;08 - 00;27;07;15

Speaker 2

Part of a system. Right? So you can't exclude one to the other. And a lot of times they're best as influencers of of other things. But my first recommendation of working.

 

00;27;07;15 - 00;27;14;13

 

Out would be work out when you can work out as number one solution.

 

00;27;14;16 - 00;27;16;09

Speaker 2

I've talked to a lot of military personnel that.

 

00;27;16;09 - 00;27;16;24

 

Need a.

 

00;27;16;24 - 00;27;22;18

Speaker 2

Higher intensity training session to be able to mitigate stress in their system, to then allow.

 

00;27;22;18 - 00;27;24;13

 

Them to kind of be more calm.

 

00;27;24;13 - 00;27;25;26

Speaker 2

And relaxed. So it's actually a.

 

00;27;25;26 - 00;27;29;28

 

Key catalyst for them to.

 

00;27;29;28 - 00;27;30;26

Speaker 2

Be able to.

 

00;27;30;28 - 00;27;31;22

 

Be in a.

 

00;27;31;27 - 00;27;32;24

Speaker 2

Relaxed state.

 

00;27;32;26 - 00;27;33;23

 

To kind of get into a.

 

00;27;33;23 - 00;27;35;12

Speaker 2

Homeostasis versus being.

 

00;27;35;12 - 00;27;36;00

 

Pegged up.

 

00;27;36;00 - 00;27;37;17

Speaker 2

At a ten on a stress level.

 

00;27;37;17 - 00;27;45;04

 

Or, you know, a cognitive load level or whatever it might be for a lot of people, if you work out.

 

00;27;45;06 - 00;27;54;29

Speaker 2

Too intensely, too late at night, it still has a stimulus to your system that may impact your sleep as well, too. So, yeah, it's balancing the optimization of those, but also.

 

00;27;54;29 - 00;27;59;11

 

The reality of the world and and who we are and what we have to deal with on a day.

 

00;27;59;11 - 00;28;00;02

Speaker 2

To day basis.

 

00;28;00;02 - 00;28;03;14

 

So yeah, it is definitely a.

 

00;28;03;14 - 00;28;09;09

Speaker 2

Balancing act that hopefully we can help provide resources for through these conversations.

 

00;28;09;12 - 00;28;09;25

 

But yeah.

 

00;28;10;01 - 00;28;12;12

Speaker 2

It's, it's it's, it's up in everybody's individual.

 

00;28;12;12 - 00;28;14;19

 

So we got to help kind of find.

 

00;28;14;22 - 00;28;18;04

Speaker 2

A solution for each individual person.

 

00;28;18;06 - 00;28;21;03

 

Got it. Okay.

 

00;28;21;05 - 00;28;21;22

 

Cool.

 

00;28;21;25 - 00;28;25;00

Speaker 2

Be ready to talk around sleep cycles.

 

00;28;25;03 - 00;28;26;14

 

Let's go.

 

00;28;26;17 - 00;28;29;05

 

So kind of general.

 

00;28;29;08 - 00;28;31;14

Speaker 2

Term for this would be sleep architecture, right?

 

00;28;31;14 - 00;28;32;27

 

So we have.

 

00;28;32;27 - 00;28;38;06

Speaker 2

Wakefulness. Not to get too crazy into this, but wakefulness is kind of characterized by alpha waves. Alpha waves are.

 

00;28;38;06 - 00;28;39;24

 

Very high.

 

00;28;39;24 - 00;28;41;14

Speaker 2

Frequency, so lots of stuff going.

 

00;28;41;14 - 00;28;42;01

 

On.

 

00;28;42;03 - 00;28;44;10

Speaker 2

Low amplitude. So a lot of kind of it's just like.

 

00;28;44;10 - 00;28;45;27

 

A.

 

00;28;45;29 - 00;28;46;24

Speaker 2

Kind of scratch.

 

00;28;46;24 - 00;28;47;10

 

Mark going.

 

00;28;47;10 - 00;28;51;09

Speaker 2

Across a piece of paper. If you had a pencil in your hands as we get into.

 

00;28;51;09 - 00;28;54;07

 

Sleep and to kind of get the recommended.

 

00;28;54;07 - 00;28;57;15

Speaker 2

Amount of sleep is 79 hours.

 

00;28;57;17 - 00;29;03;21

 

So you're kind of in that five hour mark. A lot of people that you work with or come from your you're kind of.

 

00;29;03;21 - 00;29;06;10

Speaker 2

Worlds probably 5 to 6 is their.

 

00;29;06;10 - 00;29;09;13

 

Norm. Seven to.

 

00;29;09;13 - 00;29;10;05

Speaker 2

Nine is kind of the.

 

00;29;10;05 - 00;29;11;03

 

Recommended.

 

00;29;11;05 - 00;29;17;00

Speaker 2

Most of time. If I walk in a room, we talk about sleep is okay, raise your hand if you get more than 7 hours is less than 50% of people, regardless of.

 

00;29;17;03 - 00;29;20;10

 

Oh, we were talking to.

 

00;29;20;13 - 00;29;22;21

Speaker 2

So 7 to 9 hours is recommended.

 

00;29;22;24 - 00;29;24;05

 

There's reality in the world.

 

00;29;24;05 - 00;29;30;09

Speaker 2

But as we get into the architecture house that goes, it really kind of goes into this sequence of.

 

00;29;30;09 - 00;29;31;07

 

About 90 to.

 

00;29;31;07 - 00;29;37;22

Speaker 2

120 minute phases or stages. As we go through things, we have two main categories of sleep.

 

00;29;37;22 - 00;29;39;06

 

We have non rapid.

 

00;29;39;06 - 00;29;39;29

Speaker 2

Eye movement sleep.

 

00;29;40;04 - 00;29;42;06

 

So and REM and we have.

 

00;29;42;06 - 00;29;43;25

Speaker 2

REM sleep rapid. I haven't sleep.

 

00;29;43;25 - 00;29;45;29

 

A lot of people have probably heard about REM.

 

00;29;46;01 - 00;29;51;24

Speaker 2

Probably said, okay, that's it. My eyes are darting back and forth and that's usually when I'm dreaming, which those things are all true.

 

00;29;51;27 - 00;29;52;04

 

But we're.

 

00;29;52;04 - 00;29;53;18

Speaker 2

Going to kind of talk about each one of these just.

 

00;29;53;18 - 00;29;54;17

 

Quickly.

 

00;29;54;20 - 00;29;55;27

Speaker 2

As we kind of go into it.

 

00;29;55;28 - 00;29;59;29

 

It's kind of imagine like longitudinally.

 

00;30;00;01 - 00;30;01;26

Speaker 2

You know, a seven hour period and this is call it.

 

00;30;01;26 - 00;30;03;13

 

From 11.

 

00;30;03;13 - 00;30;07;06

Speaker 2

Pm to 7 a.m.. So 7 to 9 hours.

 

00;30;07;08 - 00;30;10;05

 

We're going to kind of go through and I want to kind of take.

 

00;30;10;07 - 00;30;13;16

Speaker 2

Visualize these kind of 90 minute segments as we go through.

 

00;30;13;18 - 00;30;14;26

 

So go to bed at 11.

 

00;30;14;26 - 00;30;15;25

Speaker 2

It starts a 90 minute.

 

00;30;15;25 - 00;30;17;21

 

Window in at around.

 

00;30;17;21 - 00;30;19;04

Speaker 2

1230, it starts another.

 

00;30;19;04 - 00;30;20;12

 

90 minute window.

 

00;30;20;15 - 00;30;22;05

Speaker 2

And then around 2 a.m. it starts another.

 

00;30;22;05 - 00;30;22;19

 

90 minute.

 

00;30;22;19 - 00;30;27;19

Speaker 2

Window. So that's kind of a good kind of visualization as we think about this.

 

00;30;27;21 - 00;30;30;27

 

You lay your head on the pillow, you know, as you go.

 

00;30;30;27 - 00;30;31;13

Speaker 2

Into sleep.

 

00;30;31;14 - 00;30;33;13

 

Immediately kind of run through.

 

00;30;33;13 - 00;30;39;16

Speaker 2

REM sleep and then into non-REM sleep. And there's four stages of non-REM sleep.

 

00;30;39;18 - 00;30;47;06

 

You have light non-REM one, and then late non-REM two. So late night light.

 

00;30;47;07 - 00;31;05;26

Speaker 2

non-REM one is around 1 to 7 minutes. So you set your head on a pillow, you get into stage one sleep and it's around 1 to 7 minutes, and then you transition down into non-REM sleep. Two more Stage two. You might spend about 10 to 25 minutes in that stage of sleep. There's a lot of things going on.

 

00;31;05;26 - 00;31;11;03

Speaker 2

You're transitioning out of these alpha waves in a kind of more fade away. So basically what's happening is the amplitude is getting.

 

00;31;11;03 - 00;31;11;29

 

Higher.

 

00;31;12;01 - 00;31;13;05

Speaker 2

And the frequency is getting a.

 

00;31;13;05 - 00;31;14;07

 

Little bit longer, but.

 

00;31;14;07 - 00;31;16;04

Speaker 2

It's kind of like interspersed.

 

00;31;16;06 - 00;31;19;00

 

Through here and then.

 

00;31;19;00 - 00;31;25;14

Speaker 2

We get into slow wave sleep. So there's stage three and stage four. So this is one of the kind of key things that.

 

00;31;25;14 - 00;31;29;14

 

Are one of the more important regions of sleep that a lot of things.

 

00;31;29;14 - 00;31;30;28

Speaker 2

Might impact.

 

00;31;31;00 - 00;31;32;20

 

And that we'll talk about a little bit later.

 

00;31;32;20 - 00;31;44;00

Speaker 2

But stage three sleep is kind of the first stage of slow wave sleep. Generally, Delta waves, which are basically these big synchronized waves of sleep that kind of look like a normal wave patterns. If there's any surfers that.

 

00;31;44;00 - 00;31;44;25

 

Are in the group.

 

00;31;44;28 - 00;31;45;28

Speaker 2

Kind of like a great swell.

 

00;31;45;28 - 00;31;46;21

 

Coming in.

 

00;31;46;23 - 00;31;57;06

Speaker 2

Essentially to be kind of be like these delta waves. So stage four is kind of the money stage in regards to non-REM sleep. So it's about 20 to 40 minutes.

 

00;31;57;09 - 00;31;57;25

 

And then what will.

 

00;31;57;25 - 00;32;05;27

Speaker 2

Happen is we'll start to kind of cycle up into stage three, back to stage two, and then we'll get to Ran. So we'll come back up during it, spend a little bit of time in.

 

00;32;05;27 - 00;32;07;09

 

REM and then we'll go.

 

00;32;07;09 - 00;32;12;11

Speaker 2

Right back down through stage 1 to 3 and four, spend some time on stage four, come back up to.

 

00;32;12;11 - 00;32;13;08

 

REM over that 90.

 

00;32;13;08 - 00;32;14;01

Speaker 2

Minutes.

 

00;32;14;03 - 00;32;16;11

 

Spend a little bit more time in REM.

 

00;32;16;14 - 00;32;24;01

Speaker 2

And as we get into the third, fourth, this, you start to see this kind of inverse relationship with slow wave sleep in REM sleep so.

 

00;32;24;01 - 00;32;25;01

 

Early in your.

 

00;32;25;02 - 00;32;27;26

Speaker 2

Night of sleep, you're prioritizing non-REM sleep, slow wave.

 

00;32;27;26 - 00;32;29;25

 

Sleep later in the.

 

00;32;30;00 - 00;32;36;23

Speaker 2

Sleep cycles or sleep architecture, you're starting to prioritize REM sleep. So it's kind of this body's.

 

00;32;36;25 - 00;32;37;07

 

Idea of.

 

00;32;37;07 - 00;32;38;25

Speaker 2

Going through this. And a good visual.

 

00;32;38;25 - 00;32;40;26

 

Might be you have anybody.

 

00;32;40;26 - 00;32;41;03

Speaker 2

That's.

 

00;32;41;03 - 00;32;42;24

 

Done like Woodcarving.

 

00;32;42;25 - 00;32;54;06

Speaker 2

You have a chunk of wood and you see something inside of it, you're going to start to hack away a bunch of that kind of big stuff. So that's really the non-REM sleep is basically memory consolidation, taking things out of short term memory, putting it into long term.

 

00;32;54;06 - 00;32;58;09

 

Memory and trying to clean everything up like drag a hard drive.

 

00;32;58;10 - 00;33;04;20

Speaker 2

Essentially. And then as you start to see it come through more, you start to do more finer detail word. That's kind of the REM sleep. So as you.

 

00;33;04;20 - 00;33;06;06

 

Kind of get through that later.

 

00;33;06;06 - 00;33;16;14

Speaker 2

On in that sleep cycle, you're doing more of the finer detail work as you've already taken away a lot of the other materials earlier in that cycle. So those are kind of the key sleep cycles.

 

00;33;16;16 - 00;33;18;03

 

That we kind of go go through in.

 

00;33;18;03 - 00;33;19;26

Speaker 2

Regards to sleep.

 

00;33;19;26 - 00;33;20;26

 

So non-REM.

 

00;33;20;26 - 00;33;24;20

Speaker 2

Sleep, REM sleep, the big buckets, four stages of non REM sleep.

 

00;33;24;20 - 00;33;25;08

 

All varying.

 

00;33;25;08 - 00;33;25;21

Speaker 2

Levels of.

 

00;33;25;21 - 00;33;27;04

 

Time.

 

00;33;27;07 - 00;33;40;00

Speaker 2

Slow wave sleep, which are stage three and stage four, really kind of what we want to make sure we're getting into. And then you have REM sleep as well too. So that's kind of how we run do that. If we kind of finish off.

 

00;33;40;00 - 00;33;40;09

 

REM.

 

00;33;40;14 - 00;33;49;24

Speaker 2

Anonymously, it's really kind of taking information, building them in a new skills, in fact. So that's really going to come into place of motor control or motor skills which are.

 

00;33;49;24 - 00;33;52;17

 

Learning memory.

 

00;33;52;20 - 00;33;54;27

Speaker 2

Focus, attention.

 

00;33;54;29 - 00;33;55;27

 

Any kind of cognitive.

 

00;33;55;27 - 00;33;56;20

Speaker 2

Functions are going to.

 

00;33;56;20 - 00;33;59;09

 

Really be important around that.

 

00;33;59;11 - 00;34;07;01

Speaker 2

REM sleep is very interesting because it's wavelengths like very much like wakefulness. So in REM sleep.

 

00;34;07;03 - 00;34;08;21

 

While we're dreaming.

 

00;34;08;23 - 00;34;12;20

Speaker 2

It's very interesting. We kind of get into this more wakefulness state in the brain.

 

00;34;12;20 - 00;34;13;16

 

But our body.

 

00;34;13;16 - 00;34;14;07

Speaker 2

Actually shuts.

 

00;34;14;07 - 00;34;15;16

 

Off our motor.

 

00;34;15;16 - 00;34;25;00

Speaker 2

Control outside of kind of like the unconscious respiratory things so that you're not acting out what you're actually seeing in your dreams. So it's kind of an interesting.

 

00;34;25;02 - 00;34;26;22

 

Dichotomy of.

 

00;34;26;24 - 00;34;30;09

Speaker 2

If you could just imagine if we always had our motor control while we were sleeping.

 

00;34;30;09 - 00;34;32;19

 

You never know what we would be doing.

 

00;34;32;21 - 00;34;47;03

Speaker 2

As well too. So REM sleep is very much around integration. So if non-REM sleep is this idea of reflection, taking information and building your skills, in fact, REM sleep is being able to kind of take that.

 

00;34;47;06 - 00;34;47;24

 

Integrated with.

 

00;34;47;24 - 00;34;52;05

Speaker 2

Past experiences, innovative insights, problem solving, and start to kind of.

 

00;34;52;05 - 00;34;54;18

 

Really create how you may go forward.

 

00;34;54;20 - 00;35;01;19

Speaker 2

And think about things, which is why a lot of times when I say sleep on it and come back and have a decision tomorrow.

 

00;35;01;21 - 00;35;02;12

 

Or you may.

 

00;35;02;12 - 00;35;03;10

Speaker 2

Have this kind of.

 

00;35;03;10 - 00;35;04;24

 

Lightbulb moment when you wake up in the.

 

00;35;04;24 - 00;35;08;26

Speaker 2

Morning is because as you were trying to solve a problem on the day prior.

 

00;35;08;28 - 00;35;10;04

 

You went to sleep, gone through.

 

00;35;10;04 - 00;35;14;00

Speaker 2

All your sleep cycles. During REM sleep, it actually started to connect to other things that were.

 

00;35;14;00 - 00;35;15;08

 

Already in your.

 

00;35;15;08 - 00;35;17;22

Speaker 2

System as far as these past memories.

 

00;35;17;25 - 00;35;18;17

 

And other.

 

00;35;18;17 - 00;35;20;28

Speaker 2

Insights. And then all of a sudden you had this kind of.

 

00;35;20;28 - 00;35;21;26

 

Unusual.

 

00;35;22;00 - 00;35;24;02

Speaker 2

Connection that allows you to kind of think of something in.

 

00;35;24;02 - 00;35;27;05

 

A new way and kind of realize that when you wake up.

 

00;35;27;08 - 00;35;52;28

 

So if I pause there for a second so there's just a grasp on maybe some to main common concepts or curiosities, I guess is the best way to say it. So non-REM time, memory and things like that, right? So if somebody is walking around on a daily activity and then the short term. Right. And assuming that there's nothing neurological affecting the individual, things like that.

 

00;35;52;28 - 00;36;10;12

 

But if it just seems to be noticeable on a regular basis that you're, you know, a name or, you know, what I do earlier today or yesterday, the busy week is that an indication of being affected by in the non non-REM phase?

 

00;36;10;12 - 00;36;13;07

 

Could be, It could be. And probably the way that I would try to.

 

00;36;13;07 - 00;36;14;06

Speaker 2

Validate something like.

 

00;36;14;06 - 00;36;15;23

 

That.

 

00;36;15;25 - 00;36;17;29

Speaker 2

You can just do simple questionnaires and a lot of.

 

00;36;17;29 - 00;36;19;14

 

People now then you might even have.

 

00;36;19;14 - 00;36;22;07

Speaker 2

One have some sort of I'll just call it Fitbit as a general.

 

00;36;22;07 - 00;36;23;17

 

Category like.

 

00;36;23;17 - 00;36;24;29

Speaker 2

Whether it's, you know, a strap they.

 

00;36;24;29 - 00;36;26;14

 

Wear or a ring they wear.

 

00;36;26;14 - 00;36;30;29

Speaker 2

And that's giving them sleep data, which we can have a quick conversation around.

 

00;36;31;01 - 00;36;31;26

 

Kind of the validity.

 

00;36;31;26 - 00;36;36;25

Speaker 2

Of those things. But usually some of the key things is do you wake up.

 

00;36;36;29 - 00;36;39;19

 

A lot of buck if you are if you need an.

 

00;36;39;19 - 00;36;42;21

Speaker 2

Alarm clock and you hit snooze four or five times.

 

00;36;42;24 - 00;36;43;08

 

That's probably.

 

00;36;43;08 - 00;36;44;08

Speaker 2

An indicator that you may not be.

 

00;36;44;08 - 00;36;45;09

 

Getting enough.

 

00;36;45;09 - 00;36;50;04

Speaker 2

Sleep. It's not an absolutely. Because again, everybody's different.

 

00;36;50;07 - 00;36;53;26

 

Quality of sleep like even one of the before all the Fitbit and.

 

00;36;53;26 - 00;36;59;04

Speaker 2

Things one of our key questions we had with our athletes was how long did you sleep last night?

 

00;36;59;06 - 00;37;01;14

 

What was the quality of your sleep? Do you feel.

 

00;37;01;14 - 00;37;06;06

Speaker 2

Rested? So if I took those three and kind of framed it against that.

 

00;37;06;09 - 00;37;07;17

 

And I feel like I might be dropping.

 

00;37;07;17 - 00;37;09;02

Speaker 2

Something here and there as far as remembering.

 

00;37;09;02 - 00;37;09;19

 

A name.

 

00;37;09;19 - 00;37;11;15

Speaker 2

Or I forgot that project, or I forgot.

 

00;37;11;15 - 00;37;11;28

 

That meeting.

 

00;37;11;28 - 00;37;16;04

Speaker 2

That I was supposed to go to is go back and look at sleep and say.

 

00;37;16;06 - 00;37;18;21

 

You know, am I getting enough sleep again?

 

00;37;18;23 - 00;37;21;25

Speaker 2

There's no absolutes. Do you sleep bar hours a night?

 

00;37;21;27 - 00;37;23;13

 

Many of the people in the.

 

00;37;23;13 - 00;37;28;28

Speaker 2

Audience sleep 6 hours a night. 70 known as the recommended.

 

00;37;29;00 - 00;37;32;11

 

But for you, are you waking up without alarm clocks?

 

00;37;32;14 - 00;37;34;05

Speaker 2

Do you feel rested?

 

00;37;34;08 - 00;37;35;20

 

And you know.

 

00;37;35;23 - 00;37;39;01

Speaker 2

What was the quality of your sleep? Did you get up a whole bunch of times or did you sleep all the way.

 

00;37;39;01 - 00;37;39;24

 

Through the night?

 

00;37;39;27 - 00;37;41;22

Speaker 2

If you said.

 

00;37;41;24 - 00;37;42;02

 

I.

 

00;37;42;02 - 00;37;49;13

Speaker 2

Said this news about three times and I woke up five times and I'm pretty tired, I would say we probably should talk about your sleep and let's see if we.

 

00;37;49;13 - 00;37;50;13

 

Can help you.

 

00;37;50;15 - 00;37;56;17

Speaker 2

Optimize that. But I wouldn't say it's like a direct that is the answer, but it was worth a conversation.

 

00;37;56;19 - 00;37;57;16

 

Game at that point.

 

00;37;57;23 - 00;38;28;22

 

Yeah, I mean, there's obvious disclaimers on here. It's it's having to assess a whole bunch of variables. But this is, this is to those who know themselves well and pay attention to their to their individual scenarios. So the second one is the REM. The rest, this is where is this the part where you feel rested? If you hit REM for any amount of time and you've allowed your body to stop and disable the things so you can relax?

 

00;38;28;24 - 00;38;30;11

Speaker 2

Yeah. So it's interesting.

 

00;38;30;11 - 00;38;31;25

 

If you and this is what a.

 

00;38;31;25 - 00;38;36;23

Speaker 2

Lot of the studies will do, is they'll let's say somebody say, listen, we're going to we're not going to let you sleep for.

 

00;38;36;23 - 00;38;37;12

 

A night.

 

00;38;37;14 - 00;38;49;25

Speaker 2

Or two nights or we're going to only let you sleep 2 hours a night with a body will preferentially do kind of that catch up. Sleep is their prioritized non REM sleep. So non REM sleep is kind.

 

00;38;49;25 - 00;38;53;01

 

Of the brain's.

 

00;38;53;01 - 00;38;55;07

Speaker 2

Prioritization when it does get a chance to.

 

00;38;55;07 - 00;38;56;11

 

Sleep.

 

00;38;56;13 - 00;38;59;29

Speaker 2

Things. So the REM sleep.

 

00;39;00;03 - 00;39;03;08

 

I don't think is a direct or like it's because.

 

00;39;03;08 - 00;39;15;00

Speaker 2

You got into REM sleep this you're more rested I would probably say because you got into REM sleep. You were sleeping through a long enough cycle to go through that inverse kind of relationship of more non-REM at the beginning of your sleep.

 

00;39;15;00 - 00;39;17;25

 

And more REM later that you.

 

00;39;17;25 - 00;39;18;23

Speaker 2

Were sleep.

 

00;39;18;23 - 00;39;20;04

 

Longer.

 

00;39;20;06 - 00;39;21;14

Speaker 2

And again, I'm assuming later head down.

 

00;39;21;14 - 00;39;22;11

 

On the pillow.

 

00;39;22;13 - 00;39;25;07

Speaker 2

For 79 hours, not sleeping for 79 hours.

 

00;39;25;09 - 00;39;26;21

 

There only be getting.

 

00;39;26;25 - 00;39;31;10

Speaker 2

6 hours of sleep or six and a half hours of actual sleep. So I would say if we're.

 

00;39;31;10 - 00;39;33;28

 

Getting enough REM rapid eye movement.

 

00;39;33;28 - 00;39;37;16

Speaker 2

So that's kind of what REM stands for, is the concept of time.

 

00;39;37;17 - 00;39;37;25

 

It would be.

 

00;39;37;25 - 00;39;41;00

Speaker 2

Related to that particular brain state.

 

00;39;41;02 - 00;39;42;09

 

And dreaming.

 

00;39;42;12 - 00;39;46;26

Speaker 2

State. That means you got enough sleep in general, which hopefully means that you're feeling more rested.

 

00;39;46;28 - 00;39;47;25

 

Got it.

 

00;39;47;27 - 00;39;49;17

 

Okay.

 

00;39;49;19 - 00;39;50;10

 

Yeah, Hopefully.

 

00;39;50;10 - 00;39;51;25

Speaker 2

I'm not getting to.

 

00;39;51;28 - 00;39;53;05

 

Too in the in.

 

00;39;53;05 - 00;40;00;12

Speaker 2

The weeds here on anything. I hope to kind of bring it to a more actionable how do I use this personally for people?

 

00;40;00;14 - 00;40;06;01

 

Yeah, I feel like you're setting it up. I mean, for me. Oh yeah. No, no. Well, we'll find out. Are we.

 

00;40;06;04 - 00;40;09;14

 

We are. We are going to find out.

 

00;40;09;16 - 00;40;14;10

Speaker 2

So why sleep important, right? So we're putting ourselves in this very vulnerable position.

 

00;40;14;14 - 00;40;15;17

 

Of we are.

 

00;40;15;17 - 00;40;16;24

Speaker 2

Basically.

 

00;40;16;27 - 00;40;17;13

 

Unaware of.

 

00;40;17;13 - 00;40;21;14

Speaker 2

What's happening around us for 5 to 8 hours a day and any.

 

00;40;21;14 - 00;40;21;26

 

Myriad.

 

00;40;21;26 - 00;40;22;24

Speaker 2

Number of things could be.

 

00;40;22;24 - 00;40;24;11

 

Happening during that.

 

00;40;24;11 - 00;40;25;19

Speaker 2

Period of time.

 

00;40;25;21 - 00;40;27;15

 

So the fact that our body.

 

00;40;27;15 - 00;40;28;15

Speaker 2

Has its due, that.

 

00;40;28;17 - 00;40;29;03

 

Probably.

 

00;40;29;05 - 00;40;30;23

Speaker 2

To it's valuable, there's a need.

 

00;40;30;23 - 00;40;32;18

 

For it.

 

00;40;32;20 - 00;40;34;26

Speaker 2

We've kind of started to tap into some of these things.

 

00;40;34;26 - 00;40;37;05

 

But we're.

 

00;40;37;05 - 00;40;37;21

Speaker 2

Going to just start.

 

00;40;37;21 - 00;40;38;22

 

With brain.

 

00;40;38;25 - 00;40;39;21

Speaker 2

Capabilities.

 

00;40;39;21 - 00;40;42;05

 

So cognitive.

 

00;40;42;07 - 00;40;45;05

Speaker 2

Capabilities. So kind of this idea.

 

00;40;45;05 - 00;40;45;22

 

Of being able to.

 

00;40;45;22 - 00;40;58;26

Speaker 2

Be more focused, to have better decision making skills, more accuracy of things, which may be important to certain people on accuracy of numbers or accuracy at the range or accuracy on controls and helicopter.

 

00;40;58;26 - 00;41;01;05

 

Whatever it might be.

 

00;41;01;08 - 00;41;09;16

Speaker 2

So there's kind of timing. And time and time again, sleep deprivation has impacts to all of those kind of.

 

00;41;09;16 - 00;41;12;23

 

Cognitive capabilities and.

 

00;41;12;28 - 00;41;14;13

Speaker 2

Motor skills. So somebody learning.

 

00;41;14;13 - 00;41;14;28

 

A new.

 

00;41;14;28 - 00;41;16;21

Speaker 2

Physical task so.

 

00;41;16;23 - 00;41;17;16

 

That non-REM.

 

00;41;17;16 - 00;41;23;09

Speaker 2

Sleep where that is actually being cemented in there. So it's basically kind of taking a new skill or taking out a short term.

 

00;41;23;09 - 00;41;23;23

 

Memory and.

 

00;41;23;23 - 00;41;25;22

Speaker 2

Putting you into a hard term memory and kind of.

 

00;41;25;22 - 00;41;26;10

 

Cleaning out.

 

00;41;26;10 - 00;41;27;12

Speaker 2

All that extra stuff around.

 

00;41;27;12 - 00;41;29;11

 

It. So for.

 

00;41;29;11 - 00;41;31;08

Speaker 2

Athletes.

 

00;41;31;10 - 00;41;32;01

 

You know.

 

00;41;32;04 - 00;41;49;00

Speaker 2

Take a basketball player free, throw percentage improvements, accuracy in passing improvements, reduce injury actually around athletes, which is one of the vestiges of a generation, a higher incidence of injuries for them. Somebody in this audience listening to this.

 

00;41;49;03 - 00;41;50;19

 

Might need to be real creative in what they.

 

00;41;50;19 - 00;41;51;23

Speaker 2

Do. So they're trying to figure.

 

00;41;51;23 - 00;41;56;14

 

Out either a creative marketing plan or a creative coding.

 

00;41;56;14 - 00;41;58;00

Speaker 2

Or, you know, they're trying to figure.

 

00;41;58;00 - 00;41;59;14

 

Out a way to be a better leader within.

 

00;41;59;19 - 00;42;03;22

Speaker 2

Their team, whatever it might be. So REM sleep is kind of.

 

00;42;03;22 - 00;42;04;11

 

Where you're.

 

00;42;04;11 - 00;42;07;04

Speaker 2

Able to play in different sandboxes that you might.

 

00;42;07;07 - 00;42;09;09

 

Not normally think of when you're awake.

 

00;42;09;11 - 00;42;14;14

Speaker 2

To maybe play with some things in those playgrounds or those sandboxes that then.

 

00;42;14;14 - 00;42;16;22

 

When you are awake again.

 

00;42;16;24 - 00;42;21;12

Speaker 2

You can start to look at things through these kind of different eyes. And so that's kind of where we are. We talked about the REM sleep is kind.

 

00;42;21;12 - 00;42;22;13

 

Of really around that kind of.

 

00;42;22;13 - 00;42;28;13

Speaker 2

Creativity, being able to take new concepts and apply them in different ways in this kind of domain of sleep.

 

00;42;28;13 - 00;42;29;08

 

And then.

 

00;42;29;10 - 00;42;32;10

Speaker 2

Maybe realize something and then bring it to life.

 

00;42;32;12 - 00;42;36;06

 

In in real life or in awake.

 

00;42;36;09 - 00;42;39;18

Speaker 2

Memory. So back to kind of what we're talking about.

 

00;42;39;20 - 00;42;41;10

 

Improving sleep before learning.

 

00;42;41;10 - 00;42;50;01

Speaker 2

A new skill. So let's just say there's somebody on your team or somebody in the organization is getting ready to go to a class or a course, some sort of educational seminar or.

 

00;42;50;01 - 00;42;53;04

 

Whatever it might be, but you want to be able to prepare the brain.

 

00;42;53;04 - 00;42;54;02

Speaker 2

Proactively ahead.

 

00;42;54;02 - 00;42;55;03

 

Of that, whether through.

 

00;42;55;03 - 00;43;03;06

Speaker 2

Sleep, because that's essentially going to set it up for success. After learning that, saying you're basically hitting the save button on those memories. So again, we're going to talk.

 

00;43;03;06 - 00;43;03;28

 

About that a lot.

 

00;43;03;28 - 00;43;06;29

Speaker 2

But short term memory is kind of.

 

00;43;06;29 - 00;43;07;29

 

In that.

 

00;43;08;01 - 00;43;12;03

Speaker 2

non-REM sleep transfer to kind of the cortex, the brain during deep sleep.

 

00;43;12;03 - 00;43;13;05

 

And then integrated.

 

00;43;13;05 - 00;43;16;06

Speaker 2

During REM sleep. So I think that's kind of circling around what you said about, hey.

 

00;43;16;06 - 00;43;16;22

 

If I get around.

 

00;43;16;22 - 00;43;23;27

Speaker 2

Does that mean arrested? I think is really the combination of those two interplays between REM sleep and REM sleep.

 

00;43;23;29 - 00;43;41;19

 

So if I, if I could insert sorry, insert real quick in there because now if you're going to if you're going to you get tired. A nap. We talk about these catnaps, 15 minute, 30, 30 minute. You know the value does that now is that is that part of the plan that you can supplement with some of these things?

 

00;43;41;19 - 00;43;43;22

Speaker 2

That definitely can be part of the plan. And I.

 

00;43;43;22 - 00;43;45;03

 

Think more and more.

 

00;43;45;03 - 00;43;46;09

Speaker 2

There is less taboo.

 

00;43;46;09 - 00;43;47;15

 

Now.

 

00;43;47;18 - 00;43;52;17

Speaker 2

To nap in organizations. So that is kind of one of your key strategies.

 

00;43;52;17 - 00;43;53;07

 

Around that.

 

00;43;53;07 - 00;43;54;21

Speaker 2

Is 20 to 30.

 

00;43;54;21 - 00;43;56;26

 

Minute NAP usually don't want.

 

00;43;56;26 - 00;44;02;10

Speaker 2

To get too much longer than that because what happens is you start to slide down into those deeper sleep wave cycles and if you get kind of.

 

00;44;02;10 - 00;44;03;19

 

Woken up in.

 

00;44;03;22 - 00;44;04;24

Speaker 2

One of those, that's usually where.

 

00;44;04;24 - 00;44;07;07

 

You're a bit more groggy, kind of maybe waking up not.

 

00;44;07;07 - 00;44;08;25

Speaker 2

Knowing exactly kind of what's going on at.

 

00;44;08;25 - 00;44;10;13

 

The moment.

 

00;44;10;15 - 00;44;24;23

Speaker 2

Those types of things. So naps are definitely a key piece they've done a lot of studies with, and it's kind of where the Industrial Revolution has made have been impacts reduction of about 20% in our sleep as a population over that time. You go to a lot.

 

00;44;24;23 - 00;44;26;03

 

Of.

 

00;44;26;05 - 00;44;30;18

Speaker 2

The historical things. They've done some studies in Greece where you had two populations.

 

00;44;30;20 - 00;44;32;25

 

You know, where the older.

 

00;44;32;25 - 00;44;47;07

Speaker 2

Individuals are still taking naps these days and then you have the group that don't take naps. You have higher incidences of these kind of mortality factors for the ones that are not taking naps, but in specifically to like even just cognitive function.

 

00;44;47;09 - 00;44;48;14

 

Usain Bolt.

 

00;44;48;16 - 00;44;50;19

Speaker 2

Often will take naps prior to his kind.

 

00;44;50;19 - 00;44;51;01

 

Of.

 

00;44;51;01 - 00;45;00;19

Speaker 2

Record breaking sprint. So naps definitely have a place. Hopefully the taboo or stigma kind of is going away from those probably is probably.

 

00;45;00;19 - 00;45;01;16

 

Thrown in a little bit.

 

00;45;01;16 - 00;45;06;01

Speaker 2

More of an opportunity for some people to be able to catch a nap inside of their work days because maybe their work.

 

00;45;06;01 - 00;45;09;08

 

In remote or hybrid.

 

00;45;09;10 - 00;45;11;12

Speaker 2

But yes, that is a strategy that you want to kind.

 

00;45;11;12 - 00;45;14;09

 

Of have in your pocket should align up with how you might want to.

 

00;45;14;09 - 00;45;15;15

Speaker 2

Do things.

 

00;45;15;17 - 00;45;16;28

 

In kind of.

 

00;45;17;00 - 00;45;20;02

Speaker 2

The realities of doing that based off of work, culture.

 

00;45;20;04 - 00;45;21;11

 

Or family.

 

00;45;21;11 - 00;45;23;18

Speaker 2

Dynamics at home as well too.

 

00;45;23;20 - 00;45;26;19

 

Yeah, and you might be getting to this and I don't want to jump the gun on here, but.

 

00;45;26;20 - 00;45;28;09

 

You're good.

 

00;45;28;11 - 00;45;50;11

 

Pun for U.S. Bolt but you know it if there's people I mean maybe it's bravado. Maybe it's these other types of pride and factors that say, you know, I'm pushing through, I'm pushing through, I'm pushing through. But, you know, if your performance is going to decline and you measure time, you can say that something that you were trying to achieve within a certain amount of time was did took you longer to do that.

 

00;45;50;11 - 00;45;57;01

 

But if you if you'd taken the 15 to 20 minute nap without disrupting the sleep cycle, then maybe you would have a timer.

 

00;45;57;03 - 00;46;04;08

Speaker 2

That's 100% right. So if you're basing on outcomes versus how hard you ground yourself through something, your outcomes will likely be.

 

00;46;04;08 - 00;46;04;24

 

Better.

 

00;46;04;24 - 00;46;06;26

Speaker 2

When you're optimized. And that optimization may.

 

00;46;06;26 - 00;46;07;07

 

Include.

 

00;46;07;07 - 00;46;09;13

Speaker 2

Naps or other strategies.

 

00;46;09;15 - 00;46;10;20

 

There it is. All right.

 

00;46;10;20 - 00;46;14;19

 

Yeah. Emotional kind of.

 

00;46;14;19 - 00;46;21;06

Speaker 2

Reactions. So the middle is kind of the seat of all emotions as we get sleep deprived.

 

00;46;21;08 - 00;46;23;00

 

Deprived.

 

00;46;23;02 - 00;46;30;23

Speaker 2

Essentially what happens is it starts to become a bit more tuned to negative emotions and it's a bit more hyperactive. And so essentially you may be quicker to react to something in.

 

00;46;30;23 - 00;46;35;28

 

A more negative manner. It may lead to do at home.

 

00;46;36;01 - 00;46;42;06

Speaker 2

Arguments with a spouse or kids or whatever it might be. So it's kind of this.

 

00;46;42;09 - 00;46;43;27

 

Thing that if we don't have.

 

00;46;43;27 - 00;46;45;28

Speaker 2

That sleep, we're putting ourselves in more kind.

 

00;46;45;28 - 00;46;47;06

 

Of a.

 

00;46;47;08 - 00;46;49;26

Speaker 2

Situation where we might snap a bit easier or.

 

00;46;49;26 - 00;46;51;06

 

Quicker around.

 

00;46;51;07 - 00;46;52;05

Speaker 2

Certain things we need to react.

 

00;46;52;05 - 00;46;53;13

 

To and not give.

 

00;46;53;13 - 00;47;01;19

Speaker 2

Ourselves the time or space to maybe take a piece of information in or the way somebody said something or looked at us and be able to take a moment.

 

00;47;01;21 - 00;47;04;25

 

Reflect on it, how am I feeling about it? How can I react.

 

00;47;04;25 - 00;47;05;18

Speaker 2

To this and kind of.

 

00;47;05;18 - 00;47;06;01

 

Provide a.

 

00;47;06;01 - 00;47;10;27

Speaker 2

More reasonable reaction versus just kind of a snap judgment?

 

00;47;10;29 - 00;47;12;01

 

What goes along with that.

 

00;47;12;01 - 00;47;14;17

Speaker 2

Is your prefrontal cortex, which is really kind of like the CEO.

 

00;47;14;17 - 00;47;15;25

 

Of the brain.

 

00;47;15;28 - 00;47;19;04

Speaker 2

As you become sleep deprived, it diminishes the communication between.

 

00;47;19;05 - 00;47;20;29

 

The CEO and your.

 

00;47;20;29 - 00;47;26;27

Speaker 2

Emotional center. So that can override that kind of snap judgment or snap reaction. So essentially, you have.

 

00;47;26;27 - 00;47;28;08

 

Heightened emotional.

 

00;47;28;11 - 00;47;36;05

Speaker 2

With a slant towards the negative side without something in place to kind of use as a gate for that to go through. So those two things together.

 

00;47;36;07 - 00;47;36;23

 

Put.

 

00;47;36;25 - 00;47;38;22

Speaker 2

People in a situation where they may react in a more.

 

00;47;38;22 - 00;47;39;23

 

Negative manner.

 

00;47;39;26 - 00;47;42;10

Speaker 2

From an emotional standpoint.

 

00;47;42;12 - 00;47;43;00

 

I won't go into.

 

00;47;43;00 - 00;48;02;12

Speaker 2

All the details of the next one, but just kind of a new system and illness. So sleep as far as just like your normal general function, improving your sleep will optimize your cytokines, your T cells, natural killer cells. So these are all things that basically are there to react to.

 

00;48;02;14 - 00;48;03;16

 

Incoming.

 

00;48;03;18 - 00;48;05;04

Speaker 2

Pathogens.

 

00;48;05;07 - 00;48;09;04

 

Cold. So whatever it might be.

 

00;48;09;06 - 00;48;16;06

Speaker 2

So just general immune function, multiple studies around cardiovascular health, mostly due to our blood pressure.

 

00;48;16;06 - 00;48;18;08

 

So if you're.

 

00;48;18;08 - 00;48;28;22

Speaker 2

Not getting as much sleep, it starts to have a rise. Cortisol, which has a direct impact to blood pressure. So hypertension, heart attack, stroke.

 

00;48;28;24 - 00;48;29;03

 

Kind of all.

 

00;48;29;03 - 00;48;36;29

Speaker 2

Of the more interesting things arose around Alzheimer's. So this idea of being able to get enough sleep, especially this slow wave sleep, so that non-REM sleep that I was talking.

 

00;48;36;29 - 00;48;37;29

 

About.

 

00;48;38;01 - 00;48;56;18

Speaker 2

Allows the brain to kind of go through this cleaning function of this emphatic cleansing. So Alzheimer's, most of these amyloid proteins that get laid down and kind of congregate and that's kind of what is around Alzheimer's. And it might be a chicken or the egg thing in some situations of Alzheimer's creates worse sleep.

 

00;48;56;20 - 00;48;58;08

 

Hygiene or.

 

00;48;58;10 - 00;49;18;13

Speaker 2

Poor sleep hygiene. Maybe having an influence on Alzheimer's, but essentially more slow wave sleep. It allows this kind of cleansing process in the brain that pulls those amyloid proteins as well as other things out of the out of the brain tissue and allows the neurons to be a little bit more free of that stuff. So that's kind of an interesting thing that I found as well, too.

 

00;49;18;15 - 00;49;19;07

 

I imagine.

 

00;49;19;07 - 00;49;21;03

Speaker 2

A fair amount of people listening.

 

00;49;21;05 - 00;49;21;19

 

Might.

 

00;49;21;19 - 00;49;24;02

Speaker 2

Want to have a better body composition.

 

00;49;24;04 - 00;49;25;24

 

So maybe they want.

 

00;49;25;26 - 00;49;37;01

Speaker 2

To lose £5 or maybe they've gained £100 on different things. And there's a lot of factors in this one. The team talks about nutrition. It'll be a kind of nice.

 

00;49;37;04 - 00;49;37;21

 

Pull through on.

 

00;49;37;21 - 00;49;38;03

Speaker 2

That as well.

 

00;49;38;04 - 00;49;38;14

 

Too.

 

00;49;38;14 - 00;50;00;23

Speaker 2

But increased insulin resistance due to poor sleep. So essentially your insulin receptors on your cells kind of get closed off with this lack of sleep. So as the glucose in the system, the insulin is not able to pull that into the cells. So then you start to get into this pre-diabetic state. There's two specific hormones that are released.

 

00;50;00;26 - 00;50;02;08

 

If you are.

 

00;50;02;11 - 00;50;09;13

Speaker 2

Sleep deprived. So this green line, which basically stimulates appetite. So as you start to kind of get.

 

00;50;09;13 - 00;50;10;09

 

Pulled back on.

 

00;50;10;11 - 00;50;11;24

Speaker 2

Normalcy by a gene.

 

00;50;11;27 - 00;50;12;15

 

When you're.

 

00;50;12;15 - 00;50;13;09

Speaker 2

Awake, you're more.

 

00;50;13;09 - 00;50;16;20

 

Hungry, which means you're going to eat more often probably.

 

00;50;16;22 - 00;50;29;13

Speaker 2

And then leptin, which suppresses hunger. So you have these kind of two counterbalances to each other, breathing, which basically stimulates your appetite and leptin, which suppresses hunger. Your appetite stimulus goes up with decreased sleep.

 

00;50;29;13 - 00;50;30;13

 

And your.

 

00;50;30;16 - 00;50;38;08

Speaker 2

Suppression of hunger goes down. So basically that's an appetite or a recipe pun intended for. If we're.

 

00;50;38;08 - 00;50;40;02

 

Trying to do, I'd have.

 

00;50;40;04 - 00;50;47;25

Speaker 2

To burn more calories per day on things, which is probably going to be a challenge if you are trying to.

 

00;50;47;27 - 00;50;49;10

 

Maybe get a more.

 

00;50;49;10 - 00;50;53;24

Speaker 2

Optimized body composition, lose a few pounds or lose a lot of pounds depending on what you're having.

 

00;50;53;24 - 00;50;54;10

 

Or eating.

 

00;50;54;10 - 00;50;56;17

Speaker 2

Better for performance as well.

 

00;50;56;17 - 00;50;58;29

 

To growth hormone.

 

00;50;58;29 - 00;51;17;07

Speaker 2

Testosterone, those are two other hormones that are put into the system. So growth hormones usually release during that wave sleep so that non-REM sleep so early in the sleep cycle and testosterone testosterone during REM sleep. So for people, you know, let's just say the 40 to 50 year old males, as we kind of get.

 

00;51;17;07 - 00;51;18;20

 

Into that and I'm in that I mean.

 

00;51;18;20 - 00;51;26;08

Speaker 2

In that age bracket, testosterone is usually on the decline for trying to optimize testosterone, being able to get to that duration. So so we get REM is going to.

 

00;51;26;08 - 00;51;28;28

 

Be probably beneficial in maintaining.

 

00;51;28;28 - 00;51;32;23

Speaker 2

What you have from a total stress free testosterone capability as well.

 

00;51;32;23 - 00;51;34;09

 

Too. But you put all those.

 

00;51;34;09 - 00;51;36;05

Speaker 2

Together as far as.

 

00;51;36;08 - 00;51;37;12

 

Lethargy.

 

00;51;37;15 - 00;51;42;24

Speaker 2

Being lethargic, when you don't have that testosterone in the system, not having enough testosterone, testosterone and growth hormone in the system.

 

00;51;42;24 - 00;51;43;24

 

Paired with kind of an.

 

00;51;43;24 - 00;51;48;26

Speaker 2

Increased appetite, that's kind of a recipe for taking more calories in in.

 

00;51;48;26 - 00;51;49;13

 

You're burning.

 

00;51;49;13 - 00;51;53;09

Speaker 2

And that's going to have kind of some challenges for people that may be trying to lose weight.

 

00;51;53;11 - 00;51;55;03

 

So kind of just thinking about all.

 

00;51;55;03 - 00;51;56;11

Speaker 2

The different reasons why sleep is.

 

00;51;56;11 - 00;51;57;25

 

Important, cognitive.

 

00;51;58;02 - 00;52;01;04

Speaker 2

Immune system, basically hormonal profile in.

 

00;52;01;04 - 00;52;02;14

 

General body.

 

00;52;02;14 - 00;52;03;22

Speaker 2

Composition, most.

 

00;52;03;22 - 00;52;05;13

 

People are probably thinking.

 

00;52;05;13 - 00;52;06;20

Speaker 2

That those are important things to.

 

00;52;06;20 - 00;52;07;14

 

Them.

 

00;52;07;17 - 00;52;11;08

Speaker 2

For whatever reason. So sleep is definitely beneficial.

 

00;52;11;08 - 00;52;12;15

 

In.

 

00;52;12;18 - 00;52;13;28

Speaker 2

Creating the best.

 

00;52;14;01 - 00;52;16;00

 

Environment for you to be.

 

00;52;16;03 - 00;52;19;27

Speaker 2

At your best across all those areas.

 

00;52;19;29 - 00;52;44;28

 

How to. Yeah, so that's the interesting part also is the fact that the physical component, aside from the feeling of energy, it's the band I'm glad you brought it up the the ripple effect of now the diet, how your body's absorbing all the nutrients coming in there. Is it safe to say that with lack of sleep because of that, why it does that it's trying to preserve itself?

 

00;52;45;00 - 00;52;46;09

Speaker 2

I think just basically.

 

00;52;46;13 - 00;52;47;15

 

Decreased sleep.

 

00;52;47;18 - 00;52;49;02

Speaker 2

Basically is is.

 

00;52;49;02 - 00;52;49;17

 

Putting our.

 

00;52;49;17 - 00;53;00;06

Speaker 2

Hormones in our homeostasis homeostatic systems in a position where they just don't know how to deal with some of those things. So essentially they are just you know, go into these things are basically.

 

00;53;00;08 - 00;53;00;23

 

You might.

 

00;53;00;23 - 00;53;02;05

Speaker 2

Create energy.

 

00;53;02;08 - 00;53;03;04

 

For you to.

 

00;53;03;04 - 00;53;10;13

Speaker 2

Give you more caffeine through the course of the day. All of these things are basically trying to manage that homeostasis.

 

00;53;10;16 - 00;53;10;24

 

And.

 

00;53;10;24 - 00;53;11;21

Speaker 2

Try to keep up with your.

 

00;53;11;21 - 00;53;13;26

 

Circadian rhythm and depending on where you're at in.

 

00;53;13;26 - 00;53;17;06

Speaker 2

Relation to that, because that's really what steering.

 

00;53;17;08 - 00;53;18;07

 

Kind of where you're at in.

 

00;53;18;07 - 00;53;21;03

Speaker 2

Regards to to how long your sleep.

 

00;53;21;05 - 00;53;22;23

 

Got it.

 

00;53;22;25 - 00;53;28;05

Speaker 2

All right. You're ready to talk about how we can optimize to sleep. We started to kind of touch on a few of those.

 

00;53;28;13 - 00;53;32;18

 

Let's go. Probably number one is consistency.

 

00;53;32;20 - 00;53;40;09

Speaker 2

So trying to maintain the same time to go to bed in the same time that you wake up, even on the weekends. So a lot of people.

 

00;53;40;09 - 00;53;41;03

 

Were like, Man.

 

00;53;41;06 - 00;53;56;04

Speaker 2

I didn't get enough sleep through the course of the week. I'm going to catch up over the weekend. Not a bad strategy, but you don't want to try to be sleep in two or 3 hours. Passion, normal waking times. My assumption is you probably get up at the same time, whether it's a monday or it's a Sunday on things.

 

00;53;56;06 - 00;54;07;01

Speaker 2

So consistency is number one. It basically helps keep our circadian rhythm stable because there's a lot of kind of stimulants that go into that. And when I say stimulants light, which is the next thing we talk.

 

00;54;07;01 - 00;54;07;23

 

About.

 

00;54;07;25 - 00;54;09;12

Speaker 2

Body temperature.

 

00;54;09;15 - 00;54;09;28

 

Feeding.

 

00;54;09;28 - 00;54;19;00

Speaker 2

Windows, activity windows, those types of things. So light exposure is probably one of the biggest levers to pull on maintaining circadian rhythm.

 

00;54;19;02 - 00;54;19;12

 

I played.

 

00;54;19;12 - 00;54;20;00

Speaker 2

Around with this from.

 

00;54;20;00 - 00;54;23;13

 

My mother in law who was 84.

 

00;54;23;16 - 00;54;32;05

Speaker 2

Know she was in her apartment and she was basically staying in there all day long. She wouldn't get out of there and go do anything and she doesn't sleep very well. Cigna has a CPAP.

 

00;54;32;08 - 00;54;34;07

 

You know, sleeps till 11 and.

 

00;54;34;13 - 00;54;38;17

Speaker 2

Falls asleep frequently throughout the course of the day. That's relatively normal for kind.

 

00;54;38;17 - 00;54;41;02

 

Of our more elderly.

 

00;54;41;05 - 00;54;41;28

Speaker 2

Populations.

 

00;54;41;28 - 00;54;42;23

 

But we.

 

00;54;42;23 - 00;54;48;00

Speaker 2

Had a period of time where she was actually staying with us that we said, okay, we're going to go outside and spend 10 minutes on the sun.

 

00;54;48;03 - 00;54;49;18

 

Every morning.

 

00;54;49;20 - 00;54;51;04

Speaker 2

And basically it was interesting.

 

00;54;51;04 - 00;54;52;17

 

That we even with a couple of.

 

00;54;52;17 - 00;54;56;05

Speaker 2

Days, we started to notice some differences in her going to bed, sleeping.

 

00;54;56;05 - 00;54;56;20

 

Longer.

 

00;54;56;20 - 00;54;58;07

Speaker 2

And then also up.

 

00;54;58;07 - 00;54;59;19

 

A little bit earlier throughout the.

 

00;54;59;19 - 00;55;01;00

Speaker 2

Course of the day.

 

00;55;01;02 - 00;55;02;06

 

But if you can get out and.

 

00;55;02;06 - 00;55;08;27

Speaker 2

Everybody lives in different places, so if you're in Seattle, it might be a little bit more challenging than in Austin, Texas, or Florida or California.

 

00;55;08;27 - 00;55;12;04

 

Or wherever it might be. But morning light within about an.

 

00;55;12;04 - 00;55;14;08

Speaker 2

Hour of waking up is basically going.

 

00;55;14;08 - 00;55;16;01

 

To run that way through that.

 

00;55;16;03 - 00;55;30;21

Speaker 2

Super charismatic nucleus. And I talked about it's kind of like this light sensor that essentially is looking for that, that reset your circadian clock can get out for 5 to 10 minutes. You don't have to stare directly into the sun, but that's going to be one of the key low risk to pool. So seeing that.

 

00;55;30;21 - 00;55;31;21

 

And then on the other end of the.

 

00;55;31;21 - 00;55;32;18

Speaker 2

Day, so that's blue.

 

00;55;32;18 - 00;55;33;05

 

Light.

 

00;55;33;08 - 00;55;33;18

Speaker 2

So in the.

 

00;55;33;18 - 00;55;34;05

 

Morning and.

 

00;55;34;05 - 00;55;43;27

Speaker 2

Midday it's blue light, it's way, but it's basically the same wavelength as blue light, which is coming out of our devices, which we're inside one second by getting some.

 

00;55;44;00 - 00;55;44;09

 

Light.

 

00;55;44;09 - 00;55;47;14

Speaker 2

Exposure at the end of the day, which is going to be some of these more redder.

 

00;55;47;14 - 00;55;48;18

 

Wavelengths.

 

00;55;48;21 - 00;55;50;05

Speaker 2

Which basically start to kind of do a.

 

00;55;50;05 - 00;55;51;16

 

Little bit of melatonin.

 

00;55;51;16 - 00;55;55;22

Speaker 2

Stimulus in the system as well, too. So we want to reset the clock in the morning.

 

00;55;55;22 - 00;55;57;09

 

With light.

 

00;55;57;11 - 00;56;05;01

Speaker 2

As much as possible. And trying to be outside is probably as frequently as possible for people as as they can in their work environments.

 

00;56;05;04 - 00;56;05;07

 

And.

 

00;56;05;07 - 00;56;09;18

Speaker 2

Then trying to get a little bit of exposure to the sun as it goes down, if possible as well.

 

00;56;09;18 - 00;56;13;04

 

To blue light we're talking.

 

00;56;13;04 - 00;56;23;10

Speaker 2

About here in the second shows. I'm going to talk about essentially your disruptors and we're going to kind of we're going to paint a picture of probably one of the worst mixes of things in regards to sleep here, a couple of seconds.

 

00;56;23;12 - 00;56;24;02

 

Environment.

 

00;56;24;02 - 00;56;27;17

Speaker 2

You talked about some of these 60 degrees is kind of.

 

00;56;27;20 - 00;56;27;27

 

The.

 

00;56;28;02 - 00;56;28;19

Speaker 2

Temperature.

 

00;56;28;19 - 00;56;32;12

 

Of your environment. Ideally, we all know.

 

00;56;32;12 - 00;56;33;21

Speaker 2

That might be a challenge for certain.

 

00;56;33;21 - 00;56;35;04

 

People within their.

 

00;56;35;06 - 00;56;36;28

Speaker 2

Their homes.

 

00;56;37;00 - 00;56;37;14

 

But one of the.

 

00;56;37;14 - 00;56;44;10

Speaker 2

Key triggers to body to sleep is this drop in body temperature. And so it kind of interesting way to do this.

 

00;56;44;12 - 00;56;45;03

 

A lot of people might be.

 

00;56;45;03 - 00;56;48;17

Speaker 2

Playing with hot tubs or saunas or anything like that has to become a little bit more.

 

00;56;48;17 - 00;56;49;11

 

Prevalent.

 

00;56;49;13 - 00;56;50;16

Speaker 2

Getting a sauna.

 

00;56;50;16 - 00;56;52;03

 

Kind of later in the day might be like, well.

 

00;56;52;03 - 00;57;04;05

Speaker 2

Wait a second, you're raising my body temperature. But what your body's reaction is to that, this homeostasis that I talked about is is basically a little bit of an accelerator. On dropping your body temperature. So hot shower, hot bath, sauna.

 

00;57;04;08 - 00;57;06;17

 

Kind of in the evening time.

 

00;57;06;20 - 00;57;09;26

Speaker 2

Can actually be a nice trigger to kind of get your body temperature to start.

 

00;57;10;03 - 00;57;11;05

 

Dropping off quicker.

 

00;57;11;12 - 00;57;13;04

Speaker 2

Which will be a stimulant for you to start to go to.

 

00;57;13;04 - 00;57;15;21

 

Sleep in the room.

 

00;57;15;21 - 00;57;16;18

Speaker 2

Dark as possible.

 

00;57;16;25 - 00;57;17;20

 

So no.

 

00;57;17;20 - 00;57;20;19

Speaker 2

Lights if you need to blackout out shades.

 

00;57;20;21 - 00;57;21;27

 

Whatever it might be.

 

00;57;21;29 - 00;57;34;17

Speaker 2

Sound wise, there's probably a mix here, but quiet. Or if there is sound like a white noise machine or something stable. So where it's not changing noises, whereas basically trying to get through kind of like, hey, there's something.

 

00;57;34;17 - 00;57;36;01

 

Going on in the room.

 

00;57;36;04 - 00;57;38;26

Speaker 2

So your brain doesn't detect. It is.

 

00;57;38;28 - 00;57;40;19

 

Kind of like, Hey, you need to wake up now.

 

00;57;40;19 - 00;57;43;13

Speaker 2

Because there's something going on. It's like a stable sounds.

 

00;57;43;16 - 00;57;44;02

 

Like you're like.

 

00;57;44;03 - 00;57;53;03

Speaker 2

Have air conditioners or fans running, which are basically like white noise machines. So for me, it's kind of environmental standpoint. Temperature, light and sounds are going to be the.

 

00;57;53;03 - 00;57;54;01

 

Kind of three main.

 

00;57;54;07 - 00;57;56;08

Speaker 2

Pieces, light exposure being your.

 

00;57;56;08 - 00;57;57;08

 

Bigger louder to pull in.

 

00;57;57;08 - 00;58;07;18

Speaker 2

Regards to setting up your system from a circadian rhythm standpoint disruptors. This might hurt some people's feelings a little.

 

00;58;07;18 - 00;58;08;15

 

Bit, but alcohol.

 

00;58;08;21 - 00;58;09;01

Speaker 2

You talked.

 

00;58;09;01 - 00;58;10;05

 

About.

 

00;58;10;08 - 00;58;17;07

Speaker 2

Like a nice bourbon or glass of wine, just like the next person, but just realizing what it does. So it'll be a sedative.

 

00;58;17;09 - 00;58;17;16

 

In the.

 

00;58;17;16 - 00;58;22;27

Speaker 2

Beginning of sleep, but it ends up being a disruptor of kind of a sleep cycle. So it fragments your sleep.

 

00;58;22;29 - 00;58;23;08

 

And it.

 

00;58;23;08 - 00;58;24;12

Speaker 2

Impacts the.

 

00;58;24;12 - 00;58;25;02

 

Quality.

 

00;58;25;02 - 00;58;31;01

Speaker 2

And the duration of REM sleep. So it does have kind of that impact directly on that sleep cycle.

 

00;58;31;04 - 00;58;31;21

 

Caffeine.

 

00;58;31;28 - 00;58;33;26

Speaker 2

We've already talked about it. I drink coffee.

 

00;58;33;26 - 00;58;36;22

 

I wake up, I have my coffee in the morning. I it's.

 

00;58;36;22 - 00;58;43;04

Speaker 2

Interesting. I would religiously have coffee at about 3 p.m. every day.

 

00;58;43;06 - 00;58;43;23

 

I haven't been.

 

00;58;43;23 - 00;58;44;24

Speaker 2

Doing it as frequently.

 

00;58;44;24 - 00;58;46;07

 

Lately and I have been.

 

00;58;46;07 - 00;58;47;23

Speaker 2

Noticing that I think I'm sleeping.

 

00;58;47;23 - 00;58;51;28

 

Better, so I'm feeling like it might be part of the.

 

00;58;51;28 - 00;59;02;17

Speaker 2

Equation too, that personally I'm also the person that I'll say my wife's GP and I grew up in a Cuban family for 20 plus years and there's always the capacity to chew coffee after dinner.

 

00;59;02;17 - 00;59;03;09

 

And everything like that.

 

00;59;03;09 - 00;59;06;08

Speaker 2

And I can usually drink one of those and say it doesn't impact my.

 

00;59;06;08 - 00;59;08;09

 

Sleep deprived.

 

00;59;08;09 - 00;59;10;10

Speaker 2

Doesn't impact of falling asleep, but it definitely feels.

 

00;59;10;10 - 00;59;11;11

 

Like maybe.

 

00;59;11;13 - 00;59;27;10

Speaker 2

There is something to that personally that I'm starting to notice. Stress. Stress is a huge one because essentially it's driving this sympathetic nervous system tone, which essentially is cortisol and adrenaline getting dumped into the system. Pain for some of your people. So.

 

00;59;27;12 - 00;59;30;07

 

You know, coming out of.

 

00;59;30;10 - 00;59;31;23

Speaker 2

Armed Forces service.

 

00;59;32;00 - 00;59;33;00

 

But a lot of people are having.

 

00;59;33;00 - 00;59;43;01

Speaker 2

Injuries. They may have pain. That is something that they have to deal with on a daily basis. So pain is one of those things, especially through some of what Anthony talked about. It's like maybe there's these things you can do throughout the course of the.

 

00;59;43;01 - 00;59;43;23

 

Day.

 

00;59;43;25 - 00;59;48;01

Speaker 2

To to mitigate your pain through soft tissue strategies or just general movement strategies would be a.

 

00;59;48;01 - 00;59;49;04

 

Big one.

 

00;59;49;06 - 00;59;53;23

Speaker 2

As well too. But those are probably the four.

 

00;59;53;25 - 00;59;54;22

 

Kind of.

 

00;59;54;24 - 00;59;57;14

Speaker 2

Disrupters. So if I paint a picture.

 

00;59;57;14 - 01;00;01;11

 

Of work all day, don't eat well.

 

01;00;01;13 - 01;00;02;21

Speaker 2

Had a stressful day at work.

 

01;00;02;21 - 01;00;05;01

 

Got home.

 

01;00;05;03 - 01;00;07;21

Speaker 2

Didn't get any sunlight through the course of the day.

 

01;00;07;23 - 01;00;09;00

 

I'm on my phone.

 

01;00;09;00 - 01;00;10;11

Speaker 2

As I'm sitting on the couch.

 

01;00;10;11 - 01;00;15;04

 

Doomscrolling through whatever you are looking at at 11 p.m. at night.

 

01;00;15;05 - 01;00;17;27

Speaker 2

That is a perfect recipe for all things that will.

 

01;00;17;27 - 01;00;18;10

 

Not.

 

01;00;18;10 - 01;00;24;16

Speaker 2

Optimize your sleep. So unfortunately, many of it and I'm not saying I don't do that occasionally.

 

01;00;24;19 - 01;00;25;16

 

By just really.

 

01;00;25;16 - 01;00;26;11

Speaker 2

Realizing.

 

01;00;26;15 - 01;00;27;15

 

Blue light.

 

01;00;27;18 - 01;00;29;13

Speaker 2

Stress.

 

01;00;29;15 - 01;00;32;24

 

In those things, really being aware of how.

 

01;00;32;24 - 01;00;34;28

Speaker 2

You start to pull those away as you get closer to.

 

01;00;34;28 - 01;00;36;02

 

Bedtime.

 

01;00;36;05 - 01;00;39;01

Speaker 2

If possible as well to.

 

01;00;39;04 - 01;00;59;06

 

Go. Got it. So I mean, and I'm going to unpack some things here because you basically just I and there's no way I know this, but I'm willing to bet that there's a large percentage of people that you just called everybody out on that. Yeah. You don't go outside too often for too long. And then when you're inside, you probably eight later than you normally did.

 

01;00;59;06 - 01;01;16;03

 

And then you're watching TV or you're playing on your phone and or you're thinking about stuff as a result of either that or work related activity and you're stressed, you go there and you fool yourself into thinking, I'm just going to lay down here and think myself to sleep, right?

 

01;01;16;05 - 01;01;24;22

Speaker 2

One of the most interesting study to say, the one most interesting things that I've heard somebody say in the past, I can't remember who it is, is you can use your brain to think yourself to sleep.

 

01;01;24;24 - 01;01;27;06

 

So count sheets out the window.

 

01;01;27;09 - 01;01;27;28

Speaker 2

Count. She's out.

 

01;01;27;28 - 01;01;30;12

 

The window. I will give you a couple other kind of.

 

01;01;30;12 - 01;01;34;00

Speaker 2

Things that are maybe a replacement for counting sheep in a second. But let's keep running.

 

01;01;34;00 - 01;01;35;16

 

Through your your.

 

01;01;35;18 - 01;01;36;12

Speaker 2

Pieces that you wanted to.

 

01;01;36;12 - 01;01;36;19

 

Hit.

 

01;01;36;23 - 01;01;57;13

 

Yeah. So? So this is comes down to functional. So because we talked about earlier, if I'm interested in fitness and I'm going to find the day time of day that works best for me or when I can fit it in and I work out at night and then I'm cold, lunch is the thing. So I'm going to now come back in there and try to do recovery at night.

 

01;01;57;13 - 01;02;12;15

 

Cold plunge. Because you talked about how hot showers and heat and all that stuff will help. And then I'm going to eat for recovery meal after six. Real quick touch on that. Good idea or think about how you're going to be able to if you're going to do that then ex.

 

01;02;12;18 - 01;02;14;03

 

Yeah again no.

 

01;02;14;03 - 01;02;19;10

Speaker 2

Absolutes so work out depending on what the workout is later at night.

 

01;02;19;11 - 01;02;25;16

 

So I'm an afternoon workout. I prefer to workout in the afternoon personally. Again, everybody's.

 

01;02;25;16 - 01;02;28;13

Speaker 2

Doing different intensity of things, but it just people.

 

01;02;28;13 - 01;02;28;28

 

Are doing it at the.

 

01;02;28;28 - 01;02;33;21

Speaker 2

Higher intensity. They're going to CrossFit, they're going to go for Jiu-Jitsu, they're going.

 

01;02;33;21 - 01;02;36;05

 

To whatever it might be.

 

01;02;36;07 - 01;02;36;26

Speaker 2

That's going to have.

 

01;02;36;26 - 01;02;38;08

 

A upregulates.

 

01;02;38;08 - 01;02;43;27

Speaker 2

Already. Or sympathetic nervous system drives your system, which basically is, Hey, I need to be awake.

 

01;02;43;29 - 01;02;45;04

 

But again.

 

01;02;45;07 - 01;02;48;17

Speaker 2

There's things you can do to counterbalance domestic violence. I'll grab that in second.

 

01;02;48;19 - 01;02;54;05

 

The eating piece, depending on your eating 6 p.m. is probably not a bad time to eat, kind of depending on what your.

 

01;02;54;05 - 01;02;57;00

Speaker 2

Eating style is. And again, I'm not a dietitian.

 

01;02;57;02 - 01;02;57;25

 

You don't want anything.

 

01;02;57;25 - 01;02;58;10

Speaker 2

Like super.

 

01;02;58;10 - 01;02;58;29

 

Heavy.

 

01;02;58;29 - 01;03;01;17

Speaker 2

Greasy anything that's going to give you indigestion.

 

01;03;01;18 - 01;03;03;12

 

Kind of later at night.

 

01;03;03;15 - 01;03;07;02

Speaker 2

On things because that's just going to cause you distress. It's going to keep you away just from a pure.

 

01;03;07;02 - 01;03;07;25

 

Uncomfortable.

 

01;03;07;25 - 01;03;10;13

Speaker 2

Standpoint. I think there's some play inside of.

 

01;03;10;13 - 01;03;13;01

 

That evening feeding window.

 

01;03;13;03 - 01;03;31;27

Speaker 2

Cold plunge is interesting because for most people it has a direct, sympathetic nervous system response, i.e. I get adrenaline dumped into my system because this is a strep. My body's perceiving this as a stressful exercise. Now what we can talk about is how can you use regulation practices.

 

01;03;31;27 - 01;03;33;18

 

I.e. breathing.

 

01;03;33;20 - 01;03;36;07

Speaker 2

To control your response to that.

 

01;03;36;07 - 01;03;37;05

 

Cold water.

 

01;03;37;08 - 01;03;41;28

Speaker 2

Which is also more of a down regulatory standpoint. So that's one of the benefits of using stress to help.

 

01;03;41;28 - 01;03;42;26

 

You build.

 

01;03;42;26 - 01;03;47;24

Speaker 2

These capabilities around reacting to stress. So if you just had Copeland straight off.

 

01;03;47;24 - 01;03;48;07

 

Of it without.

 

01;03;48;08 - 01;03;53;08

Speaker 2

Like, well, how can you actually mitigate some of that stuff? For most people, that's going to keep them awake.

 

01;03;53;11 - 01;03;54;05

 

Now.

 

01;03;54;08 - 01;04;11;27

Speaker 2

A lot of times will do in our athlete centers will do this contrast bars that you'll do cold for a period of time and then hot for a period of time and then cold for a period of time hot. So you can also blend those two together as well. Doing cold plunge depending on what you're doing it for, whether it's a stress resilience.

 

01;04;12;04 - 01;04;12;26

 

Cognitive.

 

01;04;12;29 - 01;04;14;03

Speaker 2

Exercise.

 

01;04;14;06 - 01;04;14;16

 

Or I'm.

 

01;04;14;16 - 01;04;18;13

Speaker 2

Trying to reduce inflammation in my system because that's benefits of cold punch.

 

01;04;18;16 - 01;04;19;18

 

And I'm.

 

01;04;19;18 - 01;04;22;04

Speaker 2

Kind of to ends of the spectrum.

 

01;04;22;07 - 01;04;22;27

 

But can you pair.

 

01;04;22;27 - 01;04;23;14

Speaker 2

That with some.

 

01;04;23;14 - 01;04;25;05

 

Warm water or hot water.

 

01;04;25;07 - 01;04;28;20

Speaker 2

Posts and get the same benefits of that.

 

01;04;28;23 - 01;04;29;13

 

And can even.

 

01;04;29;13 - 01;04;33;20

Speaker 2

Utilize some breathing practices, which I'll talk about here in a second, which are some things you put in your back.

 

01;04;33;20 - 01;04;34;25

 

Pocket.

 

01;04;34;28 - 01;04;50;26

Speaker 2

As far as some other strategies as well too. So kind of first blush is like, man, that sounds like a recipe for not sleeping well. But I think it all depends, which is often when I say to certain situations, I think there's ways to play with that because also what time do you go to bed?

 

01;04;50;26 - 01;05;00;05

 

Chris So I'm in that that exception thing where I have I have an environment towards 1112 at night, waking up at five, 530 in the morning.

 

01;05;00;06 - 01;05;00;24

 

Yeah.

 

01;05;00;27 - 01;05;03;20

Speaker 2

So that's 6 p.m. kind of stimulus.

 

01;05;03;22 - 01;05;06;05

 

Going to bed that late. You got enough of a window.

 

01;05;06;05 - 01;05;11;11

Speaker 2

Where you could put enough strategies in place to offset that kind of stimulus to your system.

 

01;05;11;14 - 01;05;28;26

 

You got it then. So I'll take this minute. Just plug the game changer with die. That's part of the exercise is that cold plunge, trying to be able to understand how you can mitigate the stress reaction to it with the breath. So that's another XOs option out there for anybody listening and paying attention.

 

01;05;28;28 - 01;05;29;19

 

That's right.

 

01;05;29;22 - 01;05;31;08

 

Sorry to interrupt. Let's keep going.

 

01;05;31;10 - 01;05;39;25

Speaker 2

You're good. So outside of kind of what can I control for my environmental factors, i.e. temperature, light, sounds.

 

01;05;39;27 - 01;05;42;20

 

What can I know about disruptors.

 

01;05;42;23 - 01;05;44;09

Speaker 2

At least the knowledge around them?

 

01;05;44;11 - 01;05;45;09

 

I'll kwahol.

 

01;05;45;09 - 01;05;47;17

Speaker 2

Caffeine stress and.

 

01;05;47;19 - 01;05;47;25

 

There's.

 

01;05;47;25 - 01;06;00;04

Speaker 2

Some things you can start to do to kind of offset some of those things. Right? So one of the future episodes is going to be around this idea of regulation reflection. So if I take reflection as an easy one, real time awareness, how.

 

01;06;00;04 - 01;06;01;23

 

Am I feeling in the moment.

 

01;06;01;26 - 01;06;06;27

Speaker 2

Proactive reflection? How do I set myself up for success through visualization.

 

01;06;06;27 - 01;06;08;02

 

Or whatever it might be.

 

01;06;08;04 - 01;06;09;28

Speaker 2

Or setting some goals for myself?

 

01;06;10;00 - 01;06;12;12

 

And retroactive.

 

01;06;12;14 - 01;06;13;18

Speaker 2

Awareness?

 

01;06;13;21 - 01;06;15;02

 

Are know, how well.

 

01;06;15;02 - 01;06;15;12

Speaker 2

Did I do.

 

01;06;15;12 - 01;06;16;23

 

This? One of the.

 

01;06;16;23 - 01;06;19;12

Speaker 2

Things that is pretty beneficial so.

 

01;06;19;16 - 01;06;22;02

 

A lot of people Do you ever wake up in the middle of the night.

 

01;06;22;04 - 01;06;23;28

 

Or time?

 

01;06;24;00 - 01;06;27;27

Speaker 2

What is kind of one of the things that you notice when you wake up in the middle of the night?

 

01;06;27;27 - 01;06;29;18

 

You may go to the bathroom.

 

01;06;29;20 - 01;06;31;18

Speaker 2

But from a kind of thought process.

 

01;06;31;18 - 01;06;32;26

 

Standpoint, are you thinking about.

 

01;06;32;26 - 01;06;34;18

Speaker 2

It in particular?

 

01;06;34;20 - 01;06;39;06

 

Yeah, thinking about I feel like I'm missing something.

 

01;06;39;08 - 01;06;39;16

Speaker 2

So a.

 

01;06;39;16 - 01;06;40;01

 

Great way to.

 

01;06;40;01 - 01;06;41;02

Speaker 2

Approach something like that.

 

01;06;41;02 - 01;06;42;03

 

Would be.

 

01;06;42;05 - 01;06;45;06

Speaker 2

Hey, here's all the things that I'm tracking is important to me right now.

 

01;06;45;06 - 01;06;48;01

 

Let me write them down before I go to bed.

 

01;06;48;04 - 01;06;50;10

Speaker 2

So here's the three things that happened today.

 

01;06;50;10 - 01;06;51;03

 

That are on the.

 

01;06;51;03 - 01;06;54;26

Speaker 2

Minds. Let me write them down in some sort of actually set that I can do tomorrow.

 

01;06;54;26 - 01;06;56;15

 

When I'm awake.

 

01;06;56;17 - 01;06;58;11

Speaker 2

Hear the things that I know are just swirling.

 

01;06;58;11 - 01;06;59;05

 

Around me that I.

 

01;06;59;05 - 01;07;05;26

Speaker 2

Want to also write down. And here's the three things that I want to do tomorrow from a goal standpoint. So if you're going to just take and put that down.

 

01;07;05;26 - 01;07;06;28

 

On paper, you've.

 

01;07;06;28 - 01;07;08;10

Speaker 2

Captured it. So it's not like you're.

 

01;07;08;10 - 01;07;09;03

 

Worried about.

 

01;07;09;09 - 01;07;11;04

Speaker 2

Losing it necessarily.

 

01;07;11;06 - 01;07;14;11

 

You don't have to wake up thinking about it and be like, Oh, forgetting what?

 

01;07;14;11 - 01;07;22;06

Speaker 2

This the news. So you've captured it. It's a great way to do retrograde reflection for the day before. It's a great way to be proactive reflection for the day.

 

01;07;22;06 - 01;07;23;08

 

Coming up.

 

01;07;23;11 - 01;07;26;22

Speaker 2

And basically you can kind of put that down, put it in a book. So it's essentially a form of.

 

01;07;26;22 - 01;07;28;21

 

Diary keeping that.

 

01;07;28;21 - 01;07;32;02

Speaker 2

Hopefully get some of the stuff out of your brain onto a piece of paper so you don't have to.

 

01;07;32;02 - 01;07;33;03

 

Ruminate on it.

 

01;07;33;10 - 01;07;39;24

 

Got it. So it's basically purging the thought and increasing the chance for you to no longer wonder about it and during the sleep cycle.

 

01;07;40;01 - 01;07;42;29

Speaker 2

That's right. So essentially, when you are waking up.

 

01;07;43;01 - 01;07;45;15

 

Ideally an ideal world, you're probably waking up.

 

01;07;45;15 - 01;07;46;02

Speaker 2

Once in the.

 

01;07;46;02 - 01;07;46;15

 

Middle of the.

 

01;07;46;15 - 01;07;47;22

Speaker 2

Night to go to the restroom.

 

01;07;47;22 - 01;07;48;23

 

And then there's no other.

 

01;07;48;23 - 01;07;51;20

Speaker 2

Wake up. And again, there's all kinds of reasons for people.

 

01;07;51;20 - 01;07;52;05

 

To have.

 

01;07;52;05 - 01;07;53;04

Speaker 2

Periods where they wake up.

 

01;07;53;05 - 01;07;55;11

 

At night. But if.

 

01;07;55;11 - 01;07;56;24

Speaker 2

We can kind of shut down that.

 

01;07;56;25 - 01;07;57;04

 

Are.

 

01;07;57;07 - 01;08;00;13

Speaker 2

Waking going to go to the restroom. But now I'm starting to think about X.

 

01;08;00;16 - 01;08;00;28

 

If we can get.

 

01;08;00;28 - 01;08;09;12

Speaker 2

Rid of that, then you should be able to go right back to sleep. Hopefully as you get back into bed from from using the restroom, some other kind of things prior.

 

01;08;09;12 - 01;08;11;08

 

To going to bed is.

 

01;08;11;08 - 01;08;31;08

Speaker 2

People like to meditate. So meditation starts to move us kind of towards those brainwave patterns that are more representative obviously this idea of visualization, of kind of visualizing certain things, whether it's kind of a relaxing scene. So most things that we want to think about to tears for Sleep are going to be this idea of parasympathetic nervous system.

 

01;08;31;08 - 01;08;32;09

 

Tone or.

 

01;08;32;09 - 01;08;42;20

Speaker 2

Drive. So you have your rest and digest as opposed to your fight or flight nervous system responses. So you have sympathetic, which is.

 

01;08;42;25 - 01;08;43;22

 

Fight or flight.

 

01;08;43;25 - 01;09;03;00

Speaker 2

Parasympathetic rest and digest. So we want to be able to do as many things around parasympathetic nervous system activation as possible, which is kind of be this idea of your body trigger. So those things are all going to be in this different area of down regulatory regulation exercises. Breathing is a great one, so you can use breathing.

 

01;09;03;00 - 01;09;04;00

 

To do a lot of things.

 

01;09;04;00 - 01;09;06;21

Speaker 2

You can use it to regulate your system to get you ready.

 

01;09;06;21 - 01;09;09;28

 

For more action.

 

01;09;10;00 - 01;09;21;12

Speaker 2

Packed things you can you definitely use it to kind of down regulate your system so drive more vagal tone and so it's a great way easy kind of thing to take away from down regulatory.

 

01;09;21;12 - 01;09;21;28

 

Breathing.

 

01;09;21;28 - 01;09;25;26

Speaker 2

Is utilizing exhale that is longer.

 

01;09;25;26 - 01;09;26;04

 

Than the.

 

01;09;26;04 - 01;09;29;19

Speaker 2

Inhale so great example of that would be maybe something like a four, seven, eight.

 

01;09;29;19 - 01;09;31;20

 

Breathing pattern where you're going to inhale.

 

01;09;31;20 - 01;09;33;06

Speaker 2

For 4 seconds.

 

01;09;33;09 - 01;09;33;28

 

You're going to hold.

 

01;09;33;28 - 01;09;41;24

Speaker 2

It for 7 seconds, and then you're going to exhale on a control for 8 seconds. So basically a four second inhale and exhale. That's going to be.

 

01;09;41;24 - 01;09;42;29

 

A good breathing.

 

01;09;43;02 - 01;09;47;00

Speaker 2

Or something similar to that. That's going to be a regulatory.

 

01;09;47;02 - 01;09;48;02

 

Breathing pattern that will.

 

01;09;48;02 - 01;09;51;09

Speaker 2

Hopefully get you into more parasympathetic tone, which which puts you in a.

 

01;09;51;09 - 01;09;53;27

 

Better.

 

01;09;54;00 - 01;09;59;09

Speaker 2

Position to be more restful and allow those processes to happen, like we talked about.

 

01;09;59;09 - 01;09;59;23

 

At the beginning.

 

01;09;59;23 - 01;10;01;19

Speaker 2

Of the episode.

 

01;10;01;22 - 01;10;10;05

 

Or you can just every 12 minutes exhale as in, and then have everybody what's matter.

 

01;10;10;07 - 01;10;11;13

 

Well and breathe.

 

01;10;11;13 - 01;10;11;29

Speaker 2

Interestingly.

 

01;10;11;29 - 01;10;13;00

 

Enough.

 

01;10;13;03 - 01;10;19;12

Speaker 2

Physiological sigh just like what you did. That kind of auditory is actually another great thing to add into that. So if.

 

01;10;19;12 - 01;10;21;16

 

You added in that.

 

01;10;21;19 - 01;10;32;28

Speaker 2

When you're eight second exhale, that's even more bang for your buck. So you can either get a sympathy card from having somebody ask you what's wrong, or you can use it as kind of like a stimulant to get you to calm down.

 

01;10;33;00 - 01;10;37;19

 

I'll do the latter is I'll sound smarter.

 

01;10;37;22 - 01;10;38;25

 

So hopefully.

 

01;10;38;25 - 01;10;40;18

Speaker 2

There's some takeaways.

 

01;10;40;21 - 01;10;46;27

 

For people if you really break it down, quiet, no light.

 

01;10;46;29 - 01;10;50;22

Speaker 2

No stress. Get yourself in a mental state where it's going to optimize it.

 

01;10;50;27 - 01;10;51;21

 

Get rid of any.

 

01;10;51;21 - 01;10;59;21

Speaker 2

Negative thoughts, pull down a piece of paper. If you take those five things and mix them in whichever way works best for you, that's probably going to put you in a position to be successful.

 

01;10;59;23 - 01;11;05;20

 

It's outstanding. John, Appreciate it. And so is that is that that Did you cover it all?

 

01;11;05;22 - 01;11;07;07

 

I cover I cover the big rocks.

 

01;11;07;07 - 01;11;17;14

Speaker 2

So, yeah, let's let's wrap it there. I think if people can do that versus trying to get more information because there's all kinds of things around time zone jump strategies around that ship work.

 

01;11;17;17 - 01;11;18;04

 

Probably a lot of.

 

01;11;18;04 - 01;11;19;12

Speaker 2

Questions around.

 

01;11;19;19 - 01;11;20;04

 

You know.

 

01;11;20;04 - 01;11;28;12

Speaker 2

Different or supplements naps we heard So essentially that was one of my other ones. And there are some some gender differences around sleep.

 

01;11;28;12 - 01;11;32;24

 

But I think we hit the big rocks that people can hit the big rocks. I think they're hopefully.

 

01;11;32;24 - 01;11;34;08

Speaker 2

Going to be successful.

 

01;11;34;10 - 01;11;52;20

 

Well, without a doubt. I think, you know, the combination of thing, which is the benefit of what we're trying to do with Exos is partner up and then bring, you know, to dissect these things in a way which these episodes will produce is enough detail to get below the service, get off the wave tops, hit it maybe a foot or two down.

 

01;11;52;27 - 01;12;13;04

 

In the context of the analogy, right? It's deep enough to learn a little something, and then it's practical for you to apply. And then you put them together. You're talking about how you can work out, how you can rest, how you can eat right, drink right, and then spend time doing things throughout the day where it's little elements of what you just closed with the nuggets.

 

01;12;13;04 - 01;12;31;12

 

You know, just remember to do some of these things in these intervals, create a habit, and then we'll keep going. So It's it's good. I appreciate, John, everything that you're doing and then the help that you're providing us to do all these things with, you know, Anthony and and whoever's coming up next, talk about these next couple episodes.

 

01;12;31;12 - 01;12;33;24

Speaker 2

You'll you'll see some of the usual suspects, but we're going to.

 

01;12;33;24 - 01;12;36;17

 

Have a few.

 

01;12;36;19 - 01;12;39;12

Speaker 2

New faces come on as well to.

 

01;12;39;14 - 01;12;43;22

 

Good stuff, right, John? So any any closing remarks are we cover all.

 

01;12;43;25 - 01;12;45;12

 

I think we cover it all. I mean.

 

01;12;45;14 - 01;12;46;27

Speaker 2

Access is is here to.

 

01;12;46;27 - 01;12;47;23

 

Help, you know.

 

01;12;47;23 - 01;13;03;13

Speaker 2

Individuals like, yourself and teams get ready for the moments that matter to them. And this is one of the ways. So, you know, anybody that's interested out there, they can they can reach out to us. Let's see Microsoft.com is is our website and then go to this interested to to get more information solid.

 

01;13;03;16 - 01;13;21;07

 

All right cool then and I'll put all of this stuff again for everybody by now. You should know to put it in the description, I'll add some of the elements that we talked about in the summary and some links specifically what you mentioned earlier as far as additional ways to find out from other sources. Matt Walker and some other books in the links that you suggested.

 

01;13;21;07 - 01;13;24;20

 

And on that note, already, one key moving forward.