There are important questions we must all ask ourselves. One major question is, “How do I want to spend my day?” In this episode of the Class E Podcast, we talked to Jason Richards '01, the Global Business Director and shareholder of the commercial real estate property management firm, NAI Earle Furman. Richards discusses how his involvement with non-profits led to him to where he is today. He shares why it's key for entrepreneurs to listen and reflect, and the importance of passion in a career or venture.
Guest: Jason Richards
Host: Mary Sturgill
Producer: Isabella Martinez
Transcript:
MARY: Hi there, everyone. Welcome to this episode of the Class E Podcast. I'm your host, Mary Sturgill. This is the podcast that is brought to you through a partnership between the Hill Institute for Innovation and Entrepreneurship, and the Communication Studies Department here at Furman University. And we're so happy to have you with us today. We have a very special guest, Jason Richards is not only a Furman alumni, you… I believe serve on the Board of Trustees. He's on the board of trustees, and he is the Global Business Director and shareholder of the commercial real estate property management firm NAI Earle Furman. That's a mouthful Jason.
JASON: It is. It doesn't roll off the tongue very easily.
MARY: No, it doesn’t. I was like alliteration there. No, not at all. Well, welcome to the show.
JASON: Thank you. It's an honor.
MARY: So I wanted to have you on because I love your background and you were a political science major here at Furman back in the day when you graduated.
JASON: Back in the day.
MARY: Back in the day. And then you went to Duke and got a certificate. Tell us about that certificate.
JASON: So yes. When I finished Furman, I moved up in Durham and I was working with Habitat for Humanity. I was not building houses. I'm not remotely handy, but I was on the administrative side of the office and Duke, I think they still do have a certificate program in nonprofit management, and I took that. It was probably about a six-month course. It was great, it's a great background, even for small businesses frankly.
MARY: Yeah, that's what I was going to talk… so talk a little bit about because I believe, just looking at your background, I would think that that would lead you into the small business part. But before we jump into that, though, I want to talk about the nonprofit sector because I think it's so important. I worked for Habitat for Humanity too for a while. You guys are not gonna believe this. I was the construction project coordinator for Habitat for Humanity in Hickory, North Carolina…
JASON: Okay.
MARY: …for about a year. I did all of their PR stuff. And then I did all the ordering for the projects and all that stuff. It was a lot of fun.
JASON: I visited a job site once to work and was not invited.
MARY: They didn’t give you the build and a hammer?
JASON: They did not. I think they spent more time fixing my mistakes that I spent trying to help.
MARY: There were a few volunteers like that I would say.
JASON: Know your limitations.
MARY: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And accept them. So let's talk about your role in the nonprofit world.
JASON: Sure.
MARY: What kinds of things did you do and did you learn that help you now?
JASON: Well, you know, so when I finished that program, I moved back to Greenville in 2003. And so my wife and I met at Furman. We’re one of those couples, and she finished graduate school. We got married and moved to Greenville and I started working in nonprofits here. And so I worked for two different nonprofits, and a nonprofit’s a small business…
MARY: Absolutely.
JASON: And really, I'm so thankful from that point early in my career, because working in the nonprofit…that you have to be hands on in every aspect of the operation. And so I learned, I think a lot more than many of our counterparts that went more traditional corporate routes right out of the gate.
MARY: Right. That's a very good point. Because when you do work for a nonprofit, you have to wear multiple hats. Because, you know, money's thin most of the time.
JASON: Oh, yeah.
MARY: And you have to put your talents where you can put your talents and make it, make it happen. You know? I love that. The fact that you compared it to a small business because that's really in fact the way that most nonprofits should be run. And the successful ones are.
JASON: Oh, absolutely.
MARY: Yeah. So you still have to be pretty innovative though in that and I'm gonna circle back around to the idea of innovation.
JASON: Sure.
MARY: So then after the nonprofit sector, did you go directly to NAI Earle Furman?
JASON: Sure. So as I said, I worked with two different nonprofits here in town, but on the side, I have always been interested in passive income and alternative investing. I started dabbling with stocks when I was in high school. And at that point in my, I guess, mid 20s, I was very interested in real estate. And so while I was working with nonprofits, I was actually investing on a very small scale in some commercial properties and was a client of NAI Earle Furman.
MARY: Ok. Yeah.
JASON: And so working in that second nonprofit, I was in operations management and an operations position was coming open at NAI and they asked me then. So I started there in 07.
MARY: Yeah, that's a great stepping stone too. I did the exact, not the exact same thing, but a similar thing - working in nonprofit that led me to my corporate jobs in two instances.
JASON: It's a great foundation for business.
MARY: Yes. Yeah, for sure. So let's talk about what you do now in the commercial real estate world. You're in charge of kind of growing the business.
JASON: Right. So it's been fun. When I started with the firm in 07, we had, I think, 12 commercial brokers, a couple of property managers, and the company as a whole was, you know, one floor of one office here in Greenville with about 30 people. Now, we're about 160 people. We have five offices in North and South Carolina. And in addition to you know, the brokerage and property management, both of which have grown quite a bit, we started the private equity fund seven years ago. We bought about, I think, six or $700 million worth of real estate with that.
MARY: And that's kind of your… you're the one who kind of looks for acquisitions. Is that right?
JASON: Well, so, I mean, everything we do is a team effort. Very collaborative, very entrepreneurial, is the word we like to use for our firm. But yeah, so I was the COO and actually pivoted to a different position a couple of years ago. But at the end of the day, yes, we're all always looking for opportunities. You know, one of my roles as COO was looking for acquisitions, not of real estate, but other brokerages and like firms that we could roll in, and I'm still, still doing that as well.
MARY: So to grow the firm. So in your, and you just alluded to it, in your description on the website, it talks about how you guys are innovative thinkers and talked about that entrepreneurial mindset.
JASON: Right.
MARY: I want to talk about that a little bit. How do you carry that out as a company and then individually too?
JASON: Well, I think, you know, our business especially, you know, as I said, we have three business lines, but commercial brokerage is our core business and, you know, nationally and really internationally that's becoming much more corporate. There are a lot of really large firms that do a lot of work with Fortune 100 companies, and they're very process oriented if this than that.
MARY: Right.
JASON: We actually like to joke, all of our upper management is liberal arts majors. So I mean, and truly, you know, we're very much… we're very thoughtful in how we approach things for, for clients and investors and for our own business. And I guess the word that I always like to use is then we're just very, we're very open minded. And we don't say no to an idea just out of hand. You know, we really think through, is this something we should try? Yeah, and we're open to trying and failing.
MARY: Yeah, I think that's a great trait that entrepreneurs should have.
JASON: Absolutely.
MARY: You have to be, and most entrepreneurs do, I will say this… and this may be the main difference between people who are entrepreneurs or innovative thinkers and people who are not is that entrepreneurs and innovators say yes.
JASON: Right. Well, and I think, you know, too often, and certainly when I was in the COO role, and especially as, you know, with regards to, you know, employees come to you and they have an idea, I think people just too often say no, because that's the way you know, well, that's not the way we've done it.
MARY: Exactly. We've always done it this way.
JASON: Right. So, you know, training yourself to say, well, no, you know, is there a reason that we haven't done it or we just don't do it? And sort of re-centering that thought, and I think we're really good at that.
MARY: Yeah, and I think that's important. I think if COVID taught us anything, maybe that's one of the things that it taught us.
JASON: Right.
MARY: There are other ways to do things.
JASON: Absolutely.
MARY: Yeah. Yeah. If you would give advice to new entrepreneurs because you're, you know, you are an entrepreneur, even though you may work for a company, what would your advice be in addition to saying yes to those things?
JASON: You know, I think and…entrepreneurs or people, you know, just getting started in a corporate career, my advice is always kind of the same. And this is reflective of my personality so your knowledge may vary. But, you know, I've built all of my success on relationships, and I do feel you know, that things, especially, you know, with COVID, and you know, people getting very comfortable with remote things, which is great. You have to work extra hard to build relationships.
MARY: Absolutely. Yeah.
JASON: Because, you know, the people who focus on the transactional aspects of business, do very well on the short term. But as you're growing a company, if you're an entrepreneur or trying to bring a product to market, it's the relationships you've built along the way before you actually needed them that are going to help you get across the goal line. So for me, it's, it's time invested, you know, that may not have a clear objective at that moment, but it's taking time to build and maintain those relationships.
MARY: And planting those seeds.
JASON: Exactly.
MARY: Yeah. I don't think a lot of people or enough people maybe kind of have that mentality that if it's not, if it doesn't have a quick return on my investment, so to speak…
JASON: Right.
MARY: … right? Then I'm not going to put the time in.
JASON: Well, and I think too, you know, I love the energy and I use this term loosely, young people, right? So I'm 44. So I don't think of myself as old but I'm certainly not young either. But, you know, I think it's hard to, you know, when you're 23, 24 and you're starting something you're excited about you want those quick returns.
MARY: Right.
JASON: But with a little bit of hindsight, you know, I've now realized how quickly 10 years passes. And I've started to see and have seen that the seeds that I planted, many of which were inadvertent, frankly 10 or 15 years ago, have really paid off with great relationships now.
MARY: Yeah. And that's true when it comes to, you know, banking, and I mean, all aspects of business.
JASON: Right.
MARY: I was just a ghost writer for a book for a local businessman and part of what he talks about in his book is that very thing about planting those seeds, keeping those relationships, the reason he attributes his success, a big part of it is the relationships that he had, from the time that he was in high school playing sports.
JASON: Right.
MARY: Right?
JASON: And you never know and that’s, you know, that's one thing I, you know, I'm…my personality by nature is that I'm a helper.
MARY: Yeah.
JASON: All the assessments I've taken have indicated that, but, you know, a lot of the relationships that I now have are people that I helped in some way, you know, 10 or 15 years ago with no notion of a return at the time, but they've worked their way up and now they're in a position to pay that back and you just, you just never know.
MARY: That's amazing.
JASON: Yeah.
MARY: Yeah. So how did the 2008…Let's talk about kind of the real estate business.
JASON: Sure.
MARY: 2008 huge crash…
JASON: Right, right.
MARY: …that affected everybody, especially companies, I'm sure like yours. And then… how have we grown and where are we now? That's a loaded question.
JASON: How long do we have for this podcast? You know, I think, you know, obviously, it is funny, when I tell people a little bit about my journey which I alluded to earlier, you know, that I was investing in real estate…
MARY: Yeah.
JASON: …at a young age, people say, well, how were you able to do that? And I said, well, that's part of the reason that we ended up in the crash because it was a little too easy to borrow money and leverage was a little out of whack…
MARY: Yeah.
JASON: …in terms of the ratios and things like that. So you know, obviously we're in a complicated place right now.
MARY: We are. Yeah.
JASON: Interest rates are up and deals are slowing a little bit. But I do think it's very different in terms of, you know, the fundamentals never went back to the pre 2008 issues. It became the, you know, borrowing money was not as easy right as it was then nor should it have been.
MARY: Exactly.
JASON: So I think, you know, the fundamentals are better, you know, things… COVID changed everything. And so the economy is in a weird place right now. But you know, at the end of the day, real estate and this is where I think we go sideways, you know, people have these pontifications at a macro level. Real estate is not a national business.
MARY: Right.
JASON: It is hyper, hyper local, and very regional. And you know, my lens, although we don't, we do deals all over the country, my lens is focused on the southeast and this region is booming. You know, there are certainly some speed bumps and some hiccups in the real estate world at this time, but at the end of the day, this area is growing. People want to be between Raleigh and Atlanta, and we're smack in the middle of it here.
MARY: Right.
JASON: And so, you know, we're very bullish on, on real estate now. And in the immediate future.
MARY: Yeah. So what advice… that's good to know, for those of us who live here.
JASON: Right. Certainly. Certainly.
MARY: What, what is your advice to someone say like yourself who might be young who might want to start their investing career in real estate, what would be your advice to them, how to get in right now?
JASON: Well, right now, it's a tough time to break in.
MARY: I know.
JASON: And, you know, one of the things that I always get and actually, I was talking to a Furman student who had this question, he said, you know, I've got X amount of money and I'm interested in getting into real estate. And one of the things that I tell people is if you have X amount of money, and that's all you have, don't buy real estate with it because, you know, banks when they're lending for real estate, you need to have some liquidity somewhere else.
MARY: Absolutely. Yeah.
JASON: So that's gonna make your life a lot easier.
MARY: Yeah.
JASON: So that's, that's number one. But for right now, you know, again, I go back to relationships. You know, like it or not, the reality is that real estate, like so many things is kind of an insider's game. And you know, the best opportunities are ones that you never hear about.
MARY: Right.
JASON: And so it's getting out there. It's networking, and not with the notion of I'm going to find a deal right now, but I'm going to get to know these people and let them get to know me so that when they have an opportunity to be involved and to invest, they're going to reach out.
MARY: I like something you kind of alluded to right there, and you've alluded to it before, but I want to make sure our listeners get this is that if you're going for the sale…
JASON: Right.
MARY: If you're going for the immediate satisfaction, that may have an immediate, you know, kind of boom to your pocketbook, but in the long term, it's not going to sustain you like relationships will do.
JASON: Right. Because you're going to have to recreate that transaction time and time again, but if you have the relationships, eventually you get to the point where they're coming to you.
MARY: Yes, yeah, that's, that's a good point. They're coming to you. And I think, I think that's a mistake a lot of people make is they go after the dollar…
JASON: Right.
MARY: …rather than a relationship.
JASON: Right. Exactly.
MARY: Yeah. So how do you find your clients when you, when you bring clients on?
JASON: Well, you know, actually, I'll sort of pivot back to the nonprofit.
MARY: Yeah.
JASON: Right? So I was very fortunate with both of the organizations that I worked with, that the positions that I held interacted very closely with the boards of directors, and some of the top fundraising volunteers and I cultivated some amazing friendships out of those groups, people who are much further, you know, 20 and 30 years into their career, CEOs of local companies, banks, etc. And those relationships served me really well, but also sort of modeled for me… I watched how they interacted and how meaningful… they had found these organizations that they were passionate about, and they were giving their time, but that also helped them with their work.
MARY: Yeah.
JASON: And so I have, you know, sort of followed that path. You know, I've served as you mentioned, I serve on the Furman board, I chaired the local United Way board, I've been on several others…
MARY: The list of your boards is… you need to go to an NAI Earle Furman website and look at his bio because there's like 15 boards on there. And I believe in that too.
JASON: Well, it's important.
MARY: It is important.
JASON: And when I pivoted, you know, my wife and I both were working professionally in the nonprofit world. And when I made that decision to go into the business world, one of the things that was very important to me, was that I worked with a company that valued community involvement.
MARY: Yes.
JASON: And not, you know, obviously it's good for business.
MARY: Right.
JASON: But for the right reasons.
MARY: Exactly.
JASON: And our company is very, very tied into the community. And so there was a while there where I was on way too many at one time…
MARY: It's time-consuming.
JASON: It is. And so I've had to step that back. So now I think I'm only on three right now. And that's probably the max.
MARY: Well and that would be a piece of advice that I would give to young entrepreneurs too is to find… and I would, I've always served on boards personally that I'm passionate about…
JASON: Right.
MARY: Right? Like helping children, helping SA victims or survivors, or the Humane Society. I've lived in several cities around the country, and I think I've been on the Humane Society board, in almost all of them or some animal shelter boards. And that has kind of opened doors for me in those relationships that you talked about in the same way.
JASON: But you have to be passionate…
MARY: Absolutely.
JASON: And that's one thing we tell, you know, when we're training new people within our firm, we encourage them to be involved.
MARY: Right.
JASON: But we also put that asterisk on there that says, if you do this for the wrong reasons, if you're doing it just to try and build relationships and you're not passionate about the cause, you're going to do more harm than good in your career because people will see through you so you have to have that passion.
MARY: That's a good point. I'm glad you made that point. It's so true. You do have to kind of follow your passion because you're right. People know you're not going to put in the time that a board member needs to put in because there are, there is time that needs to be put in and you're not going to do the things that you need to do to be an appropriate board member for it. You know, and they're gonna see that and they're gonna think that you are that way in everything that you do.
JASON: Exactly.
MARY: So it carries over. Completely agree with that. What kind of obstacles have you faced that you've overcome?
JASON: You know, in all honesty, I am a very fortunate person. And you know, I don't know, maybe I'm a very optimistic person. So maybe I just, you know, try to see the sunny side of things, I guess. But I've been very fortunate. I have had, you know, my parents super supportive. You know, there was never anything that I felt like I couldn't do. I came here to Furman and had amazing, you know, professors and experiences and I've, I've never lacked self-confidence. And so it's, it's, it's been a fairly smooth ride, I would say, you know, if nothing else, you know, maybe one of the obstacles was just when I first landed in Greenville post-college to start my career, you know, I didn't really know anybody.
MARY: Right.
JASON: You know, at that time, there were not a lot of Furman alums. You know, I mean, always some, but Furman alums didn't necessarily stay in and around Greenville at the time. This was you know, 20 plus years ago. And so, you know, we didn't know a lot and so I was starting from scratch. But Greenville is a hugely welcoming community. And so we got over that pretty quickly.
MARY: Yeah, yeah. And I think now it's probably better for Furman grads because I know five that have graduated in the last year that have stuck around, if not more.
JASON: How could you not?
MARY: How could you not? It's a great place. So do you have an entrepreneurial or business philosophy that you kind of live by?
JASON: You know…Yes, I mean, I think, again, it's sort of going back to what we already talked about, just you have to be open minded. But you also have to listen.
MARY: Yeah.
JASON: And I think, you know, certainly, depending on what field you're in, you know, there can be a lot of alpha personalities that like to talk a lot.
MARY: Right.
JASON: And, you know, that was something certainly when I was in my 20s I wanted to be noticed, you know, I always felt like I had to be in the meeting. I had to speak up so that people knew that I was there and that kind of thing. But I think, you know, one of the things that the founder of our company, Earle Furman, that I've always taken away from him… Earle does not talk a lot and has the superpower of being able to just sit there quietly, and he takes everything in and he doesn't miss a thing. And I think listening is a really underrated skill in this day and age, for any business, but certainly for entrepreneurialism, because if you're an entrepreneur, you have to learn from others. And not just asking people about their successes, but you have to listen for people's stumbling blocks and their mistakes.
MARY: Exactly. Exactly. I think that's a great point. You learn more by listening and taking mental notes than you do by directing conversations.
JASON: Absolutely.
MARY: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think the best entrepreneurs kind of get that because we don't know everything.
JASON: Right.
MARY: You know, how can you? How can anybody? So you may be an expert, you know, in fly fishing or tying flies or whatever. I don't know why fly fishing popped into my head. But can you start a business around selling flies?
JASON: Right.
MARY: Right? You know, what do you know about business? You’re a great fisherman, right? So we have to surround ourselves with those people and listen to those people and learn from them. I think that's 100% a great piece of advice there. Any other piece of advice that you would give to young people or anything that we need to talk about?
JASON: You know, I do a lot of the meetings with Furman students here through the mentioning office, and I'll meet often with people who were maybe a year or two out of college trying to find their way and the question that I have sort of really decided is maybe the ultimate question, you know, certainly when you're trying to start your career, but also something to reflect on along the way is how do you want to spend your day? You know, people think about what industry do I want to work in or what job do I want? But it's you know, how do I want to spend my day? You know, do I want to work in an office? If I want to work in an office, do I want to be with a big office or a small nonprofit type place where it's an intimate, more interpersonal environment? You know, people don't reflect on those questions and if you know the answer to how do I want to spend my day, it makes answering all the other questions a lot easier. And I think for entrepreneurs, especially, you know, you may have the best idea in the world, but ask yourself how you want to spend your day and if it's not doing all the hustle and the grind that you have to do to start something, then, you know, maybe entrepreneurialism is not for you. You know, so I think that's a question that people really need to reflect on.
MARY: I love that. How do you want to spend your day?
JASON: Right.
MARY: Because most of the time when we're in college, and I can think back, I'm older than you but not so old that I can't remember, that my goal was just to graduate college.
JASON: Right.
MARY: Right? And then after that, what do I do? I got a job.
JASON: Right.
MARY: You know, but there was no thought into what that job necessarily would be at the time and things like that. So…
JASON: And having been, you know, in an office environment, many office environments over the last 20 years, you know, they're not all the same.
MARY: No.
JASON: Even within our office, you know, we have people who are very interactive internally, people who are interactive externally. And then we have, you know, number crunchers that love to be left alone all day.
MARY: Right.
JASON: And you just have to decide, you know, where you want to be and what you want to do.
MARY: The… one of the things that I think that you do is so important is that mentorship. And I think that's great advice for people not only to seek out mentors, but to become mentors. What have you gained from that, that relationship that you've, that you've garnered with your mentees?
JASON: Well, I will say, you know, I've done it through many different methods here at Furman and in the community and first I'll say I've gained a lot of friends.
MARY: Yeah.
JASON: Which is really cool. You know, over the years, you know, people I met 15 years ago and you know, now they live here in Greenville and have families and we're still friends. But you know, for me personally, I think, when I talk things through with current students or young people in general, you know, it forces you to think about what you're saying and reflect on yourself. Because the advice that I gave 10 years ago is different from the advice that I give now. And so it's, it's, it's very, it's very useful for me in that regard. But at the end of the day, for me, it's just fun. I really, I love people. I love relationships, and it's a great opportunity to get to know folks.
MARY: All right. I love that. Jason, amazing advice all the way through the conversation.
JASON: Oh well, thank you so much.
MARY: Thank you. Thank you so much for coming.
JASON: Oh, it is a true pleasure.
MARY: Speaking of mentoring folks, there’s a great opportunity for you if you're a business person, if you're an entrepreneur to mentor our students here at Furman through the Hill Institute for Innovation and Entrepreneurship. And so to find out more about that, if you're interested in that, we would love to have people like Jason, and like many of you to come mentor our students through their entrepreneurial journey. So contact the Hill Institute for that. But for now, remember, this is the Class E Podcast. I'm your host, Mary Sturgill. It is produced by student producer Isabella Martinez. And it's produced through a partnership between the Hill Institute for Innovation and Entrepreneurship and the Communication Studies Department here at Furman University. Until next time everybody, dream big.
