Leadership legend Sam Chand still remembers when Shawn told him, “When I hand off this church I want to do what you’re doing.”
In fact, Sam remembers the restaurant where the exchange happened…
And that’s one of the things that makes leaders like Sam Chand great— they see big vision but they drill it down by paying attention to the one person sitting in front of them.
In this episode Sam talks about pastors. Right now, shepherds are tired, he says. “They’re frazzled. Fatigued.”
Furthermore, this has nothing to do with their love for Jesus, but the season they’ve just endured.
(Sometimes, we need to realize that— the environment we’re in actually affects us in ways disproportional to the time involved.)
Pastors had to make fast decisions throughout the pandemic, and— as Sam says, “Regardless of the decision you made, you’ll be wrong with 50% of the people.”
The “no-win” scenario many pastors faced was much like quicksand…
“The more you struggle to get out, the more you get sucked in…”
This leads us to four observations—
#1 = Pastors (and their teams) face disengagement and disillusionment:
* 70% of their staff members disengaged during the past 18 months (and are not hiding it), according to Gallup.
* 30% are still deciding what to do next
In other words, EVERYONE seems to be in a state of limbo.
#2 = Staff conflict has increased.
A lot of this has to do with the changes people have endured, and a lot has to do with the fatigue + frazzle we mentioned earlier.
In a real sense, there’s no way to have endured the past 18 months and NOT have changed. And that always leads to relational tensions which must be addressed.
#3 = “Help Wanted.”
You see the signs everywhere— in shopping malls, at restaurants, at coffee shops, at movie theaters…
Even in volunteer (and staff) positions in churches, we see the signs. Many people returned to church, but they didn’t return to their previous ministry posts.
Ushers.
Greeters.
Kids’ workers.
Parking lot attendants…
The needs have actually increased— not decreased. We’re doing far more with much less.
#4 = The professional to personal pivot…
Sam notes that many leaders who used look only at organizational metrics (i.e., “the numbers” of nickels and noses) are now asking questions about themselves— about their health, their marriage, and the things they may have previously neglected.
“Leaders can become so driven that they overlook these important personal issues,” he says.
Notably, this is a POSITIVE pivot— leaders must become more self-aware.
This includes asking tough questions— like “What brings us LIFE?”
Is it the ministry?
Or external feedback?
Are we doing, as Jeremiah warned, drinking soul-water from empty cisterns, from things that can’t satisfy (Jeremiah 2:13)?
The reality is that the externals— the “things” we’re often tempted to feed to our soul for meaning— won’t be there on our deathbeds.
No one, in their final days, wishes they spent more time on stage, more time on a plane, or more time in a hotel…
It’s important to remember, Sam says, “If you die on a Saturday, they will hold churches on the next day…”
Shawn adds, “Prioritize people who will come see you in the cemetery.”
In reality, most pastors don’t. They tend to push those people out to focus on the ones who won’t….
During this season, Sam focuses on two things—
#1 = Creating content (like the new magazine and podcast he just released— links below)
#2 = Influencing influencers (through venues like speaking on this podcast and connecting with leaders like you).
In closing, he reminds us of four truths—
#1 = You are not alone.
You might feel that way, but you’re one of many (1 Kings 19:18).
#2 = There is nothing wrong with you.
You’ve just endured (and are on the tail end) of a strange season, one in which many people feel exactly like you do.
#3 = God knows the times and seasons (Acts 17:26).
He entrusted you with this epoch (Esther 4:14). He did so, because He has great confidence in you…
#4 = You’re probably thinking in new ways (i.e., the professional to personal pivot), and even pondering things about yourself.
Don’t run from those ideas just because you’ve endured a difficult time period. Trust the Holy Spirit and competent counsel to lead you.
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Links for the show
Sam Chand’s website: https://www.samchand.com/
Avail Magazine = https://www.theartofleadership.com
Avail Podcast = https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/avail-podcast/id1521323044
https://www.instagram.com/samchandleadership
Courage to Lead resources:
Help with processes = www.GearsOfGrowth.com
Staff / Teams course = www.TeamsCrashCourse.com
Schedule a free strategy session = www.CourageToLead.com/strategy
Shawn catches up with old friend Jeff Kapusta, Senior Pastor of Lifepoint Church in Wilmington, N.C. They talk church planting, leadership, and the upcoming Courageous Pastors Gathering being hosted at Lifepoint this February 2024.
Register for The Courageous Pastors Gathering
Join Greg and Shawn at The Courageous Pastors Gathering 2024 this February! To register: visit www.courageouspastors.com/gathering
Use promo code "PODCAST" for a special rate!
In this episode, Shawn is joined by Greg Surratt, founding Pastor of Seacoast Church and co-founder of ARC (Association of Related Churches).
Shawn and Greg discuss Greg's journey in ministry and his new book, "The Endurance Factor," which emphasizes the importance of maintaining well-being and finishing strong in ministry.
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The Endurance Factor on Amazon
The Courageous Pastors Gathering
In this episode, Shawn welcomes his friend Rodney Gage, Pastor, author, and co-founder of Rethink Life Church, to discuss the heart behind his bestselling book, "The Double Win: How to Win at Work and at Home." Rodney emphasizes the common struggle of work-life balance and challenges the cultural myth that success requires sacrificing one aspect of life for another. They delve into the importance of vision, values, and humility in building trust and fostering togetherness within families. Discover practical insights for achieving the double win in both your career and personal life.
Check out "The Double Win" by Rodney Gage on Amazon
Rodney and Michelle Gage's "The Winning Family Podcast"
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Click to Book a Call: CourageousPastors.com/Strategy
In this episode, Shawn Lovejoy sits down with Harold Melton, former Chief Justice of the Georgia Supreme Court. Having spent years working within the court system, Harold brings a unique perspective on the concept of justice, and defines it in three simple words: "the right response." He emphasizes the importance of personal involvement and mentorship in healing unhealed trauma, shedding light on the practical steps we can all take to contribute to positive change.
Register for The Courageous Pastors Gathering 2024 - Use code "PODCAST" for a discount exclusive to our podcast listeners!
Did you know, in the next decade, that most people will be holding their wealth in non-cash assets instead of their checking & savings accounts? This shift is crucial for the local church to understand, especially when it comes to giving encouragement. As times change, we must adapt our approach to align with the evolving financial realities of our congregation.
Vance Roush is the Founder/CEO of Overflow, whose mission is to inspire your church with a faster, simpler and more accessible way to give. He dives into the changing landscape of wealth and its impact on the local church.
This week Shawn steps back to the mic to interview one of his first coaching clients ever, Chris Bell.
Shawn and Chris talk about growing in healthy ways. Growth doesn’t always equal health. Bad things, like weeds, can grow quickly.
Rather than focusing just on the growth, we need to look at the soil — the culture.
Every church and organization already has a culture. This leads us to questions such as:
* Is the culture we have a culture we actually want?
* Have we created this culture, or did it just “happen” by accident?
* Are there things in our culture we need to change?
Furthermore, Chris talks about what to do when you drift from the culture you want — and how even those moments can become teaching opportunities for your team.
Chris leads 3 Circle Church, a five campus church in South Alabama.
3 Circle Church = https://www.3circlechurch.com
Pastor Chris on Instagram = https://www.instagram.com/pastorchrisbell/
Book a free Strategy Session = www.CourageousPastors.com/strategy
See other posts on our site about culture: https://www.courageouspastors.com/blog?tag=%2Aculture
In this episode, JC interviews his very best friend (and his wife’s bestie, as well), Jeremy and Corrie Isaacs.
Jeremy and Corrie share a unique burden to minister marriages. They come from two different backgrounds.
Jeremy’s parents had a solid marriage, but he never saw them “live out” the conflict— nor was he taught how to manage it.
Corrie was raised by a single mom— with no marriage example to follow (her mother was married four times). However, she saw incredible marriages before her at church… and realized Jesus could restore everything.
The two of them believe that God not only CAN redeem your marriage, but can also enable your marriage to tell a bigger story than you imagine possible.
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See Jeremy’s coaching page at Courageous Pastors: https://www.courageouspastors.com/jeremy
Find Generations Church online: https://www.g.church/
To book a Strategy Session go to www.CourageousPastors.com/strategy
To learn more about building your killer team, grab your free book at www.KillerTeamBook.org
Kyle Jackson brings a unique perspective to the Courageous Pastors Podcast. Usually, with speak senior leaders, but Kyle brings his experience as a campus pastor and let us know things like:
He’s actually be on staff with his wife, too, for 13 of the 15 years he’s been in ministry. His wife is a worship leader where he serves.
Kyle is the son of an evangelist. He walked away from church from 18-25, but reconnected when he attended a mobile church— in a high school. After about 13 weeks of standing “in row 10, with his arms crossed,” he began connecting… and continued taking next steps.
He became a teaching pastor. Then a coach. And then continued growing.
Through some relationships, he transitioned to becoming a campus pastor with Church of the Highlands, to launch the first “out of the state” campus in Columbus, Georgia. They launched in August 2019— and closed 6 months later (for Covid). Then, re-launched when everything opened up again.
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To book a Strategy Session go to www.CourageousPastors.com/strategy
To learn more about building your killer team, grab your free book at www.KillerTeamBook.org
In this episode, Kevin and JC discuss Kevin’s journey from “his call” to pastoring to serving as an executive pastor— and how he knew he didn’t want to be the “lead guy” at the church but wanted to serve as the XP.
It’s a good word. Most staff members are not going to serve as the senior pastor. Most will be the number 2, number 3, or something else.
Kevin and JC talk about several important factors:
⭐️ the importance of execution— of getting things done.
Specifically, the discuss vision and trust, and identify how to know when you move forward without waiting for instruction as well as how to know when to ask permission.
⭐️ the importance of EQ as opposed to IQ.
Most of the time, leaders aren’t fired (or hired) because of their Intelligence Quotient but because of their Emotional Quotient— of their ability to relate to people.
⭐️ the importance of the team.
We function better together. Face it, leadership— at ANY level— is lonely.
Sometimes that’s a function of leadership— it CAN be lonely at the top. But we make it lonelier than it has to be.
⭐️ the importance of decision-making.
Sometimes you need to be attached to the outcome. Many times you don’t need to be. In fact, most to the time you don’t.
⭐️ the importance of honor.
Kevin talks about “taking the bullet” when needed— and of deferring to the mission and the people who are part of it.
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Links for this show—
Join us for Building a Killer Team Live— www.KillerTeam.live
Claim your free Killer Team Book— www.KillerTeamBook.org
Kevin’s page on the CourageousPastors.com site = www.CourageousPastors.com/kevin
On Instagram, @KevinLloydLive
In this talk we divide the content from the past 23 talks into 7 “buckets,” that is, 7 repeating themes we saw.
#1 = Be you (not a knock-off of some other leader).
#2 = Take care of you. You can’t pour from an empty cup, serve from dry well, run on an empty tank… you get the idea.
#3 = Race relations are tough— and are worth the work. And they’re tough. And they’re worth the work. And tough. And worth it. And they are part of bringing the presence of the Kingdom.
#4 = The pandemic happened. Regardless of where you stand politically or medically or on any other issue, culture shifted and that radically changed how we do church.
#5 = One of the changes is that church moved out of the building. For sure, we don’t want to stay out of the four walls— as if it’s an either-or decision. We want to do both, gather and scatter.
#6 = Look back to the past— not to see failures and frustrations but to see the faithfulness of God. When we see our history with Him, and where He’s brought us, we gain confidence to keep stepping forward.
#7 = Coach-ability. It matters. Never underestimate the value of an outside voice to speak into your life and give you perspective, unleash new potential, and push you beyond what you dreamed possible.
Finally, tie it all together…
A lot of people think the church is in trouble, that it’s going to disappear. Don’t believe it.
J.I. Packer was asked years ago, “Who’s the best preacher?” He replied, “You don’t know him.” When pushed, he replied that not even he knew him because God has people all over, everywhere— just like Elijah didn’t realize there were 7,000 more besides him… that is true today.
Join a tribe. We’d love to have you.
Learn more at www.CourageousPastors.com/blog/024
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