Podcast Summary
Understanding Carbon Dioxide Removal: A Complex and Diverse Field: The XPRIZE for carbon removal highlights various CDR approaches, ranging from biology, electrochemistry, and mechanical engineering, and including land, oceans, and air solutions, while the market and understanding of their permanence, measurement, and impacts continue to evolve.
Carbon dioxide removal (CDR) is a complex and rapidly expanding field with various approaches beyond the commonly known methods of point source capture and tree planting. The XPRIZE for carbon removal, sponsored by Elon Musk, showcases the diversity of these approaches, which range from using land, oceans, or air, and stem from biology, electrochemistry, or mechanical engineering. The market for CDR is still evolving, and there are many open questions regarding its permanence, measurement, and external impacts. Ryan Orbach, a leading figure in the CDR space, suggests categorizing CDR based on the trapping mechanism of the CO2. Understanding this can provide a clearer perspective on the different types of CDR and their potential contributions to mitigating climate change.
Categorizing CO2 removal: Organic vs Inorganic: CO2 removal can be divided into organic (biomass) and inorganic (minerals) methods. Biomass-based approaches involve land use considerations, while inorganic methods require addressing upstream emissions and energy consumption.
Carbon dioxide (CO2) removal (CDR) can be categorized as organic (stored in biology) or inorganic (stored in minerals), depending on whether it's being stored through biomass or minerals. The approaches to CDR, including capturing CO2 from the air, the ocean, or through plants or land, all have their unique trade-offs. For instance, biomass-based approaches, such as biomass power plants with carbon capture, require considering land use, nutrient cycles, and ecosystem questions. On the other hand, engineered approaches, like capturing CO2 as a pure CO2 stream and storing it underground or in minerals, involve upstream emissions, energy consumption, and other ancillary side questions. The CDR field is experiencing a surge of new ideas, driven by market demand and supportive organizations like Stripe and Lower Carbon, as well as initiatives like the Carbon Removal XPRIZE and various incubators. However, it's important to note that these categorizations may not cover all pathways and that each approach comes with its unique set of challenges.
Exploring Carbon Dioxide Removal as a Climate Change Solution: Carbon Dioxide Removal (CDR) is a crucial addition to emissions reduction efforts, providing a safety net against climate damages while we decarbonize industries. Promising new approaches are emerging, but it's essential to remember that CDR should not replace emissions reduction.
Carbon Dioxide Removal (CDR) is an essential component of the broader strategy to mitigate climate change. Despite initial skepticism, the scientific community and entrepreneurs are discovering promising new approaches to CDR that were not previously known or considered. CDR cannot come at the expense of emissions reduction, but rather, they should be seen as complementary solutions. The cost of not reducing emissions quickly enough is enormous, and CDR can help offset some of the damages caused by overshooting the 1.5-degree target. However, it's important to remember that decarbonizing industries and reducing emissions is a massive undertaking with significant inertia, and we may not be able to eliminate all emissions by mid-century. Therefore, CDR will be necessary to help balance the equation and ensure a livable future.
The importance of permanence in carbon removal: For net-zero emissions, carbon removal methods must be permanent or have long durability as emissions are permanent and last for centuries in the atmosphere. Focus on developing and investing in permanent solutions for decarbonization while also prioritizing avoided emissions.
The importance of permanence in carbon removal cannot be overstated. While some carbon removal methods may only last for a few decades, emissions are permanent and last for centuries in the atmosphere. Therefore, for net-zero emissions to be meaningful, carbon removal methods must also be permanent or have long durability. This means that while cheaper, less durable methods may be used in the short term, the focus should be on developing and investing in more permanent solutions for the long-term goal of decarbonization. Additionally, avoided emissions, which are essentially permanent removals, should continue to be a priority as they are usually cheaper than carbon removal. However, the practical reality is that currently, less durable carbon removal methods are more cost-effective. As the carbon removal market continues to evolve, it is crucial for buyers and companies to consider the durability of carbon removal solutions when making purchasing decisions and setting priorities.
Understanding the durability and additionality of carbon credits: High durability and additionality are crucial for high-quality carbon credits. Some forest management and soil sequestration credits may not meet these standards, leading to uncertainty and potential devaluation of the market.
The durability and additionality of carbon credits are crucial factors in determining their value. The discussion highlights that low durability credits, such as those from forest management or soil sequestration, may not be as simple as they seem. While some of these credits may not be low durability as assumed, many of them may not be additional or may have uncertainty surrounding their additionality. This uncertainty, coupled with the difficulty of evaluating these credits, has led to a growing consensus in the market that many cheap credits are not high quality. To address this issue, a clear definition and evaluation of counterfactual and additionality are necessary. While the discussion acknowledges the importance of all carbon credits, prioritizing high durability credits is a reasonable approach due to their greater certainty of being additional. Ultimately, a consistent and rigorous evaluation of carbon credits will be essential to ensure the integrity of the market and to effectively combat climate change.
Measuring Additionality and Durability in Carbon Markets: Effective carbon pricing requires proving additionality and durability, but these complexities make it challenging. Improving transparency and rigor in assessing these factors is crucial for trustworthy and effective carbon markets.
The complexities of measuring additionality and durability in carbon markets, particularly in relation to forestry, soil, and other non-traditional carbon credits, make it challenging to establish trustworthy and effective pricing. Additionality, which refers to the requirement that projects generate emissions reductions that wouldn't have happened otherwise, is difficult to prove in many cases. The conflation of additionality and durability further complicates matters. While durability can serve as a weak proxy for additionality, it doesn't fully address the issue. Moreover, focusing on the value of non-carbon benefits, such as biodiversity preservation, can be important but is often overlooked due to the carbon-centric focus of these markets. To improve the effectiveness of carbon markets, it's crucial to address these complexities and strive for greater transparency and rigor in assessing additionality and durability. Separating the valuation of carbon and non-carbon benefits could also lead to more meaningful and comprehensive climate solutions.
Transitioning to a Carbon Removal Commodity Market: The Carbon Removal market is complex and still facing challenges in measurement, verification, and externalities evaluation. The goal is for it to become a commodity market, but meaningful volume and a reliable system are needed.
The Carbon Removal (CDR) market is currently in a transitional phase, moving towards becoming a commodity market but still facing challenges in terms of measurement, verification, and the evaluation of externalities. The market is complex, as some solutions have positive externalities, like carbon capture, while others have negative externalities, like land use or energy use. The durability and additionality of different CDR approaches are crucial for scalability and attractiveness. The long-term goal is for CDR to become a commodity market with a clear leaderboard of the cheapest, genuinely delivered, high durability carbon removal ton. However, we are far from this reality, and meaningful volume of high-quality removal is needed to understand the options and develop a reliable measurement and verification system. Today, buyers are showing leadership by giving uncertain companies an opportunity to deliver and prove their capabilities. The market's success depends on the development of a robust measurement and verification system, which will differ depending on the approach.
Challenges in the Carbon Removal Market: Verification and Incentives: The carbon removal market requires effective verification processes and clear incentives. Separating out the cost of verification could help realign costs and encourage focus on more certain methods.
The carbon removal market is in a state of development, with many companies and founders genuinely trying to make a difference. However, there are challenges, such as the messy incentives and the need for effective verification processes. Currently, buyers pay a price per ton, but the cost of verification is not always included. Separating out the cost of verification could help realign the cost stack, as some methods are easier to verify than others. Verification itself is not free and requires actual resources and expertise. The market needs to express the uncertainty of verification in a meaningful way, whether that's through a price or a discount rate on the number of tons. For example, measuring the effectiveness of ocean alkalinity enhancement is challenging, and the cost of verification should reflect that. Incorporating the cost of verification as an additional line item could help buyers make more informed decisions and encourage the scientific and research community to focus on making verification more certain.
Challenges in scaling carbon removal markets, especially ocean-based solutions: Continuous research, collaboration, and innovation are crucial for overcoming challenges in scaling carbon removal markets, particularly ocean-based solutions, and finding the most efficient methods to effectively remove carbon while minimizing energy consumption.
The scaling of carbon removal markets, particularly ocean-based solutions, faces significant challenges due to the current lack of detailed modeling and research at small scales. This is important because investors are looking for companies that can effectively remove carbon, and the sooner we can identify which methods work best, the more time founders can focus on innovation. Energy consumption in engineered solutions is a major concern, as the demand for renewable electricity to power these processes could strain the already overburdened energy system. However, there are multiple potential pathways to address this challenge, and it's essential to explore various approaches and regions to find the most efficient solutions. Ultimately, the success of carbon removal markets depends on continuous research, collaboration, and innovation.
Scaling Direct Air Capture: Challenges and Considerations: Expert highlights additionality and competition for resources as major challenges for scaling Direct Air Capture technology. High-quality research and a realigned ecosystem are crucial to address these issues.
The scalability of Direct Air Capture (DAC) technology faces challenges due to its energy requirements and potential competition with other uses for that energy. The expert suggests that the additionality question, or whether DAC is using energy that would otherwise be unused, is an important consideration. However, he expresses more concern about the potential competition for waste biomass and land use with other industries, such as bioenergy, which could lead to unintended consequences similar to those seen with corn ethanol. The expert emphasizes the importance of high-quality research and a realigned ecosystem to address these challenges. While DAC may not be the only solution, it could still play a role in carbon removal alongside other approaches like biomass-based methods and geothermal energy.
Perspective on climate action beyond carbon emissions: Understanding radiative forcing beyond greenhouse gases can lead to more effective climate interventions. Simple actions like painting roofs white can reduce radiative forcing.
We should broaden our perspective on climate action beyond just carbon emissions and consider radiative forcing as a more holistic approach. Radiative forcing refers to the change in net energy in Earth's atmosphere due to sunlight and Earth's reflectiveness. Greenhouse gases and their impact on radiative forcing have been the primary focus, but other factors like albedo (reflectivity) also play a significant role. For instance, some actions, like the Clean Air Act, have both positive and negative impacts on radiative forcing. While it reduced pollutants and saved lives, it also resulted in the emission of reflective particles that masked some of the warming effect. Similarly, reforestation in certain latitudes can either increase or decrease radiative forcing depending on the albedo effect. Expanding our understanding of radiative forcing can help us make more informed decisions about climate interventions and account for the trade-offs between different actions. For example, painting roofs white is a simple yet effective way to reflect sunlight and reduce radiative forcing. The color of objects matters more than we might think when it comes to climate action.
Understanding Radiative Forcing for Effective Climate Change Solutions: Radiative forcing, not just greenhouse gases or CO2, plays a crucial role in climate change. It's essential to consider adaptation efforts and their interdependence with carbon removal strategies for a holistic approach.
When it comes to addressing climate change, it's essential to consider the concept of radiative forcing as a primary measure, rather than focusing solely on greenhouse gas emissions or CO2 equivalents. Radiative forcing encompasses various factors, including greenhouse gases and albedo, and ultimately impacts human and animal life, as well as plant life and weather patterns. While carbon budgets are important, it's equally crucial to acknowledge the significance of adaptation efforts and their interdependence with carbon removal strategies. Unfortunately, there seems to be a disconnect between the carbon removal and adaptation communities, and a more holistic understanding of these interconnected issues is needed. By considering the complex relationship between carbon removal, adaptation, and their impact on human safety, biodiversity, and flourishing, we can better address climate change challenges.
Supporting Catalyst Podcast with Ratings, Reviews, and Sharing: Engage with the Catalyst podcast community by leaving ratings, reviews, and sharing episodes to spread awareness about important climate change discussions. Supported by Prelude Ventures, a venture capital firm dedicated to addressing climate change.
Supporting Catalyst podcast by leaving a rating and review or sharing an episode with a friend can help spread awareness about the important discussions happening on the show. The topics and guests for each episode can be found on canarymedia.com. Additionally, the podcast is made possible through the support of Prelude Ventures, a venture capital firm dedicated to addressing climate change across various sectors, including advanced energy, food and agriculture, transportation and logistics, advanced materials manufacturing, and advanced computing. The production team includes Daniel Waldorf, Steven Lacy, Greg Villefrank, and Sean Marquand, with the theme song composed by Sean Marquand. So, if you find value in the discussions, consider engaging with the podcast community and supporting the cause.
