How To Cope With Losing Your Mom In The Midst Of An Argument With Shelby Forsythia

enJune 05, 2019

Life After Losing Mom

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About this Episode

Welcome to Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. We’re joined by Intuitive Grief Guide and fellow podcast host, Shelby Forsythia, who shares her story of losing her mom to cancer while they were going through a rough patch in their relationship. With things left unresolved, grief has not been an easy process for Shelby, but she’s here to share her journey with us.

What To Listen For

The argument that changed Shelby’s life forever
What Shelby calls her “four years of hell”
The story of Shelby’s mom’s battle with breast cancer and how it went into remission, only to tragically return
Shelby’s self-identification as gender non-conforming nonbinary and how it affected her relationship with her mom
Shelby’s bitterness over how her own grieving process differed from the rest of her family
How she deals with the big conversations that she’ll never get to have with her mom
How Shelby receives her mom’s energy through dreams and communicates with her through life’s experiences, and how she learned to put the work in to be able to recognize these moments
What her grief triggers are and how she copes with them
What Shelby calls “lightning bolt moments” and how they’ve changed her life
Her analogy of grief being like an angry wolf caged in a dark basement and how she works with it
How to manifest love for yourself when you lose someone who used to provide love for you
How a phone call with God allowed her to surrender to her grief
How her family members honor her mom’s memory on a regular basis
Shelby’s realization that death doesn’t stop the relationship
How her podcast and Grief Growers Garden Facebook group has given her a voice on a bigger platform where she can communicate with others to gain insight into loss.

Shelby’s story is unique in how the events unfolded around her mom’s death and their argument before she died. No matter the circumstances, she’s learned that losing your mom is heartbreaking for everyone, but with things left unsaid and issues left unresolved, it can get even messier. Her work as a grief coach and podcast host gives her the ability to connect with others on a broader level and to honor her mom’s memories in ways she had never anticipated when she was first blindsided by her loss. As Shelby says, “because even through grief we are growing,” and her personal story shows us how to realize our own growth in the face of our own loss.

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Transcript

Shelby: 00:00:00 I wish someone would've told me while I was grieving is like, hey, even if you don't recognize it, you're growing

Kat: 00:00:08 Welcome to life after losing mom with me, Kat Bonner on this podcast, you'll hear from other women who have lost their mom and discovered the exact coping strategies that you need to get through the day and being the best place you've ever been. Don't miss another episode of life after losing mom. Subscribe today. More information can be found at katbonner.com/podcast. And if you'd like to join a group of likeminded women had to Facebook and search for the life after losing mom community. I just want to apologize in advance for the choppiness of this episode. I have had my fair share of technical difficulties, so yeah, I apologize. And thankfully my podcast manager is the best and hopefully thrown episode together and it sound somewhat decent. Ladies, we have a very special yes on the show today. A fellow at Greif-caster, and she is also from North Carolina. I would like to welcome a Shelby Forsythia,

Shelby: 00:01:17 Dah, Dah, Dah. I'm like, do my own intro music. Yes. Uh, born and raised in North Carolina. Everyone appear in Chicago asks me why I don't have an accent. And I always throw in some joke about how coming from the south and now living in the Midwest, they kind of just even each other out. So I don't have an accent only when I'm on the phone. Every now and then we'll I dip into, hi, this is Shelby and you can really tell like where I'm from. Um, which is amazing. I'm so excited to have you here, especially because, uh, I've had you cat over on my show coming back, conversations on life after loss and I just love spreading out in the podcast sphere and seeing more people talking about grief in the form of podcasts because there's so much more approachable to grieving people, I think, than books because books you have to like sit down and focus and concentrate on. Whereas a podcast can just be on in the background and if you tune in, great, you might hear somebody's story, you might hear a tool or something that resonates with you, um, or a a book. Where's the book? You kind of have to be paying attention or you miss the content. Uh, so I'm excited to be here and on this format with you today.

Kat: 00:02:29 Shelby, if you don't mind starting the show off with a little bit about the story of how you lost your mom.

Shelby: 00:02:38 Yeah, that's perfect. Um, my last story kind of begins pre actual loss. Um, I always like to tell people I had this really idyllic childhood. I didn't have a lot of exposure to death or dying. My, you know, childhood was not dramatic. My parents were not divorced, like no major upheaval really happened. It was kind of, um, like a typical white suburban piano lessons, you know, buy the uniforms for marching band kind of household. Like that's just the format. A family of four, like how, how I was raised and then church on the weekends. Um, and then when, when crap hits the fan, it like really hit the fan. So the last story that I tell is about what I have affectionately referred to as the four years of hell. And this is when I went off to college. And what kind of kickstarted this instability or season of lost in my life was, uh, first my dad lost his job of 19 years and this is, um, in 2010 when a lot of layoffs and things were still happening from the great recession.

Shelby: 00:03:55 And so it was kind of a bit of a shock to our family, but an upheaval and stability, something I had never seen before. So all of a sudden kind of we stopped eating out, we talked about money more, there was more stress in the household, there are a lot more, um, kind of like whispered conversations or things behind closed doors and there's kind of this sense that we were generally unstable. Um, and then pretty shortly after that, my sister and I witnessed my dad having like a low grade seizure. I'm not sure if this is the medical term for it. Um, but we had finished watching a movie in the living room and like making popcorn and stuff and we were all getting ready to go to bed and he was looking into one of those like, um, plastic tumblers that you can put like ice strengths are like iced tea or something and, and carry it in your car.

Shelby: 00:04:40 And he was talking about seeing my great grandfather, his grandfather, and like some relatives that he had farmed cotton with in Tennessee is a boy. And my sister and I were looking at him, we thought he was joking at first, but he was really insistent in looking into this plastic cup. He's like, why don't you see them? They're standing right there. And so that was this hallucinatory s like low grade seizures, some kind of like brain slippage activity that was happening. And it scared us. And I was, uh, I believe I was 18 or 19 at the time and my sister's about two years younger and we both went upstairs and I walked over to her bedroom and I was like, that was kind of weird, wasn't it? And she said, yeah. And so we went back downstairs and we told my mom what had happened in my dad was like, oh, I'm just tired.

Shelby: 00:05:26 I've been having headaches for awhile. Um, kind of these other excuses came up. Uh, but then a few months later while I was in school and he experienced, I believe he experienced a full blown seizure. Something else happened that got him admitted to the hospital. And I just remember getting a phone call at the women's center where I volunteered in college go app state, um, where I got a phone call and they said, we scanned your dad's head. And he has two brain aneurysms and they're symmetrical one on either side of his brain. And when they put them through the machine, I don't know if it was a CT scanner and Mri, something, an imaging test. Um, they were like some of the biggest recorded aneurysms. They're like, we don't know why you're alive right now. Duke University, it was like, we don't know why you're alive and do, is a pretty reputable hospital in the south.

Shelby: 00:06:17 And, and that was absolutely terrifying. So not only was this like instability of job loss happening, it was like your dad might be dying and there was this suspense kind of all of a sudden hanging in the air of this could happen at any moment because of an aneurysm ruptures, like more or less, it's game over. And so I was living with this perpetual anxiety while I was in school. While I was doing my first semester while I was taking classes and every single time the phone rang and it was a member of my family, I was like, oh my God, he's dead. And this was my very first exposure from my shelter, childhood to living with anxiety and like mortality awareness swirling around. And within the next two years or so, he had surgeries for both of his aneurysms. They did one and then waited for it to heal and then flipped him over to the other side and did the other one, waited for that to heal.

Shelby: 00:07:05 And I watched my father become a different person. It, um, he became, so, I mean, they're digging around in your brain, so how could you not be? But he became somebody who could no longer drive, who couldn't remember who members of his family were, who became angry, who was really tired, like, and traditions that we have. Things like thanksgiving, things like Christmas, things like holidays all became very drastically different. And then of course there's that community support that comes with grief to have meal trains and casseroles and Carpool and all this other stuff where the community rallies around you. But at the same time you're like, I really love you guys, but I just wish everything would come back to normal. Um, and that was our reality for probably about the first two years of the four years of hell. Uh, and then in 2012 we thought we were out of the woods.

Shelby: 00:07:51 My Dad had gotten an all clear from his doctors with, you know, sustain medications for the rest of his life. Please don't work up on roofs or anything on high buildings or Tom Machinery or anything like that. Again. Um, but you've been cleared. You're healed, you're ready to go. The meal train stopped. The car pools stopped. The prayer circles stopped for, you know, for good reason. Um, and then in the summer of 2012, my mom called a family meeting, which in our family was never a good thing and she got test results back from a mammogram that detected that she had breast cancer. And so immediately, like all over again, we were flung into this world of hospitals and medical testing and you know, all this equipment and stuff being in the house and carpools and meal trains and prayer circles and all of this stuff just happening again and again.

Shelby: 00:08:40 And I was like, am I living in the twilight zone? It was the craziest thing. And we thought we were out of the woods, like we thought we were done and then we weren't, we were just getting started. And so she went on this journey of receiving chemo and, and, um, radiation and losing her hair and getting neuropathy in her fingers and toes. And, and she also became a different person. So within the course of these four years, I watched both of my parents who for all intents and purposes, we're very stable people throughout the course of my childhood become two totally different people as a result of what they had gone through. And um, about a year later in 2013, she went into remission and was declared cancer free. And the actual loss story that I experienced happened in November of 2013 when what doctors thought was advanced pneumonia or allergies or just low immunity ended up being my mom's breast cancer returned, uh, metastasized into her lungs in her chest and this was something after one surgery and they're like, we could do preventative stuff but nothing anymore.

Shelby: 00:09:39 We'll cure or fix or fend off this inevitable reality that she's going to die from this cancer. And it absolutely like getting that knowledge and continuing to go to college throughout the course of this and coming home for winter finals and my mom being like, I've decided not to have any more surgeries. I've decided to die to participate in this dying process and call hospice in and, and do that whole thing. Like, I cannot convey into words still almost six years later, like how far open this blew my world. And she kind of made this declaration to us on December 19th and we were like, okay. And hospice came in and started setting things up and we had spoken to her doctors and kind of gotten word and we thought like all of us thought everyone thought we were going to have weeks to months, maybe if we were lucky.

Shelby: 00:10:33 And she died in a week. She died the day after Christmas 2013. And like it, when I say the entire bottom fell out from my world, like there was just no way to explain how life shattering. And Megan Devine, she's an author who wrote, it's okay that you're not okay. She used this, uses this word, uh, universe rearranging like literally my mother's death and rearranged everything I knew to be true about life in a split second. And that remains true, uh, to this day. And that loss at the age of 21 is really, I mean, it's the worst thing that has ever happened to me and has also been the catalyst for my life in the aftermath.

Kat: 00:11:25 How was it like mentally preparing yourself for the reality that your mom was going to die, but she seemed to just get sick really fast and you thought you had more time? Like how did you handle that? I mean, whether you're your mom's death is expected or unexpected. Like one person cannot train their mind to think like, hey, my mom's gonna die. Like, was there one thing that helped you with this realization knowing that this cancer is going to take your mom's life because I can't even imagine. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, at 21 years old, I'm like, how,

Shelby: 00:12:12 how in the world am I supposed to prepare for the death of my mother at 21? Um, and, uh, the only thing that really kind of helped, and I'll give Kudos to hospice for this, if anyone's considering hospice care, get it sooner rather than later because they were really communicative about what death would look like. They're like, usually the order of things is, you know, they, they stopped being mobile and so they stay in their bed and her eyes will close and so she will no longer be able to see, like she won't go blind, but she won't be able to open her eyes anymore. The last thing to go was her hearing. So keep talking to her, keep singing to her, keep sharing memories and things like that because up until the moment she dies, she'll be able to hear you. And it was really neat too to kind of hear from them, these are the ways in which it will happen.

Shelby: 00:13:00 So at least we knew what to look for, um, in her dying process. But that, that did not make it an easier, um, and also to some kind of weird twist of fate that happened as well. When she decided she made this decision, she's like, I'm not going to have any more surgeries to try and hold this off because it's not. The doctor said that there's nothing more they can do. Um, she knew exactly the type of pain that she was going to be leaving my sister and I and because her mom died when she was 22. And so for her to know like with eyes wide open exactly what she was about to do to her children, the life that she had lift, not having a mother when she became a mother and, and into her, you know, midlife and things like that, she's like, I know exactly where I'm about to put you. And it absolutely took her to pieces and like how do you prepare your kids for that other than saying, I'm sorry that I'm about to do this to you with my deaf. Um, yeah, it, it was, it was wild to walk up to that and still fascinates me that that's something that she would think of even as she, as the dying person was who all the focus was on was that her focus was still kind of on, um, on her babies, on her kids.

Kat: 00:14:17 Wow. I'm just going to say, first of all that your mom is a great mom to think about you and your sister and how this is going to affect you and to like literally think about her baby as while she is dying. I don't know if I can ever do that, but yeah, that just blows my mind. Like how does it make you feel knowing that your mom thought about you and your sister in the midst of this and you know, y'all were in the middle of a fight before she passed. How does that make you feel?

Shelby: 00:14:52 You know, what do you think about all of that? Um, I think part of it because of my age, but just the fact that there were so many things left unresolved. Like we, I had a guest on, on coming back, uh, I think a couple of months ago. Her name was rabbi and Brenner and she studies Jewish texts and uh, makes them relevant to today's audiences. And she has a book called morning and Mitzvah and she has this phrase that she says that another great podcast or reminded me of and sent to me. And it's that everyone dies in the middle of a conversation. And I don't think anybody exists in the world who feels like they have it all wrapped up. When somebody dies, there's always something that's left unsaid, whether it's I'm sorry or I forgive you, or thank you, or I wish you would have, or I hope you could see, or I want you to be here for x, y, z.
Shelby: 00:15:45 There's some kind of like communication that's not said because you just can't, um, you can't get everything said and done before somebody dies. It's impossible. And the biggest pain point for me still is that I came out to my family in 2010 as a woman who did not discriminate based on sex, genitals, gender, anything like that on who I loved. So I have dated Trans People. I have dated men, I have dated women. I've Jadah, gender nonconforming nonbinary, I mean across the spectrum of, of human gender and sexuality. And that's not something that sat well with my family. I was raised not very strict Christian per se, but like nondenominational Christian in a Christian household. Um, with that kind of box rigidity around it. And I think my mom died believing genuinely, like very, very truly. And I've come to see this in her that I was going to hell and I would not spend eternity with the rest of my family.

Shelby: 00:16:52 And she saw my sexuality as a phase or a decision or a choice, um, where I did not. And, and she and I were in the middle of fight when she died, essentially. We still have not made peace with that. And actually about a month or two before she died, we had our last big fight in a mall and it was about who I was going to marry because I was dating a woman at the time. Uh, and we had talked about getting married after college and I was looking kind of offhandedly, like with no commitment at all, but I was looking at wedding dresses and she just, she just kind of flatly said, you know, if you do marry the girl you're dating right now, your father and I won't be there. And in one sentence she just took me down to such a low level.

Shelby: 00:17:34 And, and I engaged. And so I was hurling Bible verses at her, like, why don't you believe in the mix threads in the shell fish thing, but you do believe in the gay thing. And that's not even really a gay thing. It was about not assaulting angels who were visiting the village and like all this other, like I was coming at it with logic and anger and she was coming at it with religion and fear. And we had not learned how to see eye to eye with each other before she died. And I don't doubt now that she loved me, but I think when she died I was like, she never really saw all of who I was. So how could she possibly love me? And that was the biggest, yeah, the biggest pain point that remained after her death. And I felt really bitter because I feel like a lot of my family just got to be sad when she died, like angry at her death, but then sad that she died and I was angry that she died.

Shelby: 00:18:29 But I was also angry that we were fighting when she died. Um, and it's still the hardest thing because it's a conversation that she and I will never get to have in person. We've gotten to have it a little bit kind of, and this is a great area through dreams and through me just feeling like I feel her energy through the six years that she's been gone and through conversations with her sisters and my dad and my sister and you know, all people who support me and the people that I date. But um, but it's still really hard and things like as we're entering into June and like pride month is coming up, but that's really hard for me, um, to, to celebrate something that still wasn't fully seen by somebody I really, really love. And even dating is like tricky now cause I look at my, my partners that I date as I date them and I'm like, when my mom, if liked you and I can't just ask her, I can't pick up the phone and ask her.

Shelby: 00:19:19 And I wouldn't know even now if she would have come around or would want to meet them. And so it's just always this gray area. And then often the distance, like way far somewhere are things like marriage and moving in with a partner and you know, growing old with somebody, I'm like, man, like I'm almost like, damn, I wish my mom could see this, uh, or, or kind of would offer me some reassurance that I've chosen well or that she's still here, that she cares or has been a part of this or, um, just like recognizes the way in which I love and express love. So yeah, that's been the hardest part by far. And what really helps is helps as much as it can, cause I won't say it helps entirely but helps as much as it can, is hearing stories from other people in the LGBT like party who are struggling with this.

Shelby: 00:20:11 So people who came out to their parents and then one of them died or, um, came out to a family member and they fought about it and then they're estranged from each other or um, came out to a partner even in a divorce happened. And that's still unresolved in some way. So hearing that there are other stories like this that exist in the world is really comforting. But then also just hearing stories of what it's like to be queer in general because it is, you know, we have a lot of luxuries in the United States that for the most part as somebody who is queer and white and straight presenting, I'm not killed for my sexuality or gender presentation. Um, and we, I have that kind of good in America. Um, other countries I would've been dead already for who I love. Um, but it's still just so powerful to hear stories of people who are struggling with this no matter where they are.

Kat: 00:21:06 Wow. You are brave. I would at first off like to say, but how did you like cope with knowing that your sister and your dad got to just be angry that she died and you were angry that your mom passed and that y'all were still in a fight? I mean, I can't even imagine that like was there, you know, one certain thing that really helped you cope with that realization knowing that this is how things were left off? Like, how did you, you know, get through that? Because it's definitely, I'm sure it's definitely not easy knowing that like this is the last thing that I said to you. Like I don't even remember, you know, if I said I love you to my mom before she passed. So did you maybe try to resolve things, I guess with her before she passed? I don't know if that was on your mind.

Kat: 00:22:09 Sorry, I feel like I'm rambling at this point. But yeah. Like was that on your mind knowing that she was gonna pass and that there were still so many things unresolved? Like did you maybe try to resolve them as much as you could? Like was that even on your radar? Um, yeah. I would love to hear your opinion on that. Like, was that ever in the back of your mind that, that your mom didn't love you before she died? Like did you question that because she didn't believe what you believe and she wasn't accepting of who you loved. It's like, okay, I know my mom loves me, but did she do anything to try to show you that despite your differences in beliefs?

Shelby: 00:23:05 Yeah. Um, I can't, I think it goes back to this, everybody dies in the middle of the conversation thing, but in a perfect world we would know how much we're loved and how much others love us before their deaths. And there would be some magical cosmic way to like continue that reassurance even after their bodies are no longer alive on the planet because what, what happened when her physical body was gone as I like, my brain made this weird connection of now like, oh all the love must be gone now too. Like if her physical body is not around anymore, her love must not be around either. And that connection was severed for a while despite I, despite weird freaky deaky things like I did a whole episode on the show about the [inaudible] intuitive in the supernatural, in the unexplainable things that happen after loss.

Shelby: 00:23:53 So, like after my mom died, our electric tea kettle in the kitchen would turn itself on and she was the only person in the house that would use it. And so that was really funny to us are like lights would go on and off and I broke a ton of light bulbs after she died. Like they blew once I put them in the lamp and I put in another one and that would blow too. I was like, what the hell is going on here? Um, and so like I believed in my own ways and my family believed too that she was showing up, but it's hard to, to like manifest love for ourselves when we been receiving it from another human for so long who is now dead. And so to believe that their love still exists for us, even though they're no longer physically on the planet and to like conjure that up when previously all we had to do is receive it.

Shelby: 00:24:40 Dude, man, that's really hard. And especially if it's something related to, to like my struggle, like with something difficult where I didn't really feel all that loved when she died. I'm like, not only do I have to remember that I was loved and her death, I have to, to feel that love, edit an intensity as if she didn't die in the middle of a fight. And so it's like I have to figure out how to, I don't know, produced like this electrical current that I can actually feel in real life. I don't know if I'm making any sense, but, um, but it's like all of a sudden the responsibility to remind us that we're loved, it's on us. It shifts to us after someone we love dies because they're no longer here to say it or do it or, or hug us or, um, say it to our faces.

Shelby: 00:25:24 Yeah, you're exactly right. And I think it's important to point out, like with grief comes love because there's like this thing, it's like a verbiage just says, you know, grief is the price that we pay for love. So how did you like, I guess, cope with, you know, you and your mom being in a fight in the midst of her leaving this earth? Like, you know, it I'm sure made you question her love for you to a certain extent. Like, was there one Aha moment where you just kind of realize that, okay, this is it. This is how I'm gonna deal with me and my mom being in a fight in the midst of her passing? Um, I like that, that comparison because I did have kind of an oh my God moment. Uh, it's, it's a combination. So there's like, there's like a soup that was made of like this ingredient and that ingredient.

Shelby: 00:26:29 And then there's like a base and then you put in the meats and stuff. So like, it's, it's been a coming back as a process. It's not, um, not a lightning bolt, but I think there are these lightning bolt moments that happened that like up level you really quickly. Um, in the course of, I don't know if I'd call it recovery, I'll just keep calling it coming back. Um, one of the very first things I remember was a conversation with my aunt and my aunt is a, she has her master's in spirituality and as a medium or an intuitive and she doesn't necessarily like have conversations with a debt, like not like a Tlc, the TV show. Um, but she's really good at like holding space and bringing in energy and like asking these types of questions that really make you think about your belief systems essentially.

Shelby: 00:27:20 She's really good at being like a spiritual editor for your story. And if anyone wants to reach out to her, email me, Shelby Shelby for cynthia.com and I'll connect you because she's over in California and she loves working with people in person, but she was my mom's sister and she and I would have conversations on the phone probably like once or twice or three times or four times a month after my mom died because I could not wrap my head around her loss. I just couldn't do it. And I, I remember too that if my mom lost her mom when she was 22, my aunt, uh, probably would have been like 18, 17 or 18 when that happened. And so that kind of storyline lives in her too. And so she knew my mom and could express her and channel her and sessions in ways that I could not, and it was really fascinating, but one day when we were having a conversation, she's like, Shelby, I think this goes beyond your mom.

Shelby: 00:28:08 I think you need to have a conversation with God. And I was like, Oh shit. Like I was not looking forward to this. I was mad at God. I couldn't stand him. I was like, how dare you? And like what was happening in my grief was that because of the way everything played out, I was more than happy to see myself as a victim of circumstances. I was more than happy to wallow in self pity and be pissed and lash out. And I have this analogy that I use for my grave called the wolf in the basement. And it's kind of like this visual of I have captured a wild wolf who is very hungry, who was wounded, who is snarling and mad and disconnected from their pack. And I've put it in a cage and I put it in the basement of my house, a very dark basement, uh, with the doors are closed and the cage is tiny and there's no lights on and I'm giving it no food at all.

Shelby: 00:29:02 And this is what a lot of people do with their grief. I think as they make it something that they put on the lower levels of the house and they try not to engage with it and they're kind of afraid of it at some level. I was very afraid of my grief. Like I would, uh, allegorically walk up to the basement door and like, here are the cage shaking and be like, oh no, I'm not touching that today. But then what would happen is I would hear these snarls in these house of pain from the basement. I'm like, oh, that's my grief. Like that's my grief. And then when my grief would come out, it would be explosive. It would be huge. Like I was practically biting my own arm off and my grief, and so I was mad. I was not ready to talk to God.

Shelby: 00:29:38 And so my aunt's like, I'm just going to bring God into the space and you say you need to say to him, and this is not me, that you're speaking to this as God and you just have your conversation. I was like, all right, we're just going to play this game and see how this goes. Um, and I let him have it. I ranted at God probably for like five minutes, 10 minutes. I don't know how long I went on, but I was sobbing. I was like, my aunt was in California, I was in Chicago. We were connected by a phone line, but I was like pounding the bed. I had a trunk at the foot of it. I was hitting all over that. I was really angry. I was screaming, I was crying. And then my aunt came back into the space. When I was done, I was like heaving. I was like sobbing and heaving and at the end of it she's like, I want to pretend right now that your God, what would you say to you? And the only phrase that came to my brain, I shit, you know it was, oh baby, I wish you'd just let me hold to you.

Shelby: 00:30:30 And it was this moment of collapse. Like I literally felt my shoulders go down in my whole body, go limp and I'm like, Oh my God, here I am so pissed and so angry and trying to like hit at anything that seems solid when all God, my mother, the universe, whatever forced that is larger than me, literally just wants to hold me and support me in whatever I'm going through. Like nothing in the world is trying to make me a victim. Nothing about my life has ever had the intention of making me a victim. It's a story. It's a story that I was telling myself about my loss in my grief and in that moment it broke and like that was probably the very first lightning bolt that happened in relation to the loss of my mom. My relationship with my sexuality kind of a little bit.

Shelby: 00:31:28 Also my relationship with faith in God, although that's still being worked on, that's still under construction for lack of better phrasing, but that was like one of those very first moments. And then to your point of you know, looking for this love in, in my dad and my sister and other relatives and things like that. Yeah, they have come around in their own ways and they have been able to support me in the loss of my mom and I've been able to support them in the ways that I've been able to and my sister and my dad and I actually have like weekly phone dates. That's something that I cultivated probably about two or three years after my mom died. And so now we talk at the same time every single week and whether or not we really have anything to say. It's just like a life update and ways we still stay in touch and especially around holidays, which have historically been hard for our families at the times when crabs going on, whether it's my dad's brain surgeries happened around Thanksgiving and new years and my mom died around Christmas.

Shelby: 00:32:20 Like we just get to be present for each other and interested in each other's lives and the ways that my mom would have been. And so in those ways, even though we've all moved forward with grief in tow, um, we still get to kind of honor her memory and honor her wish for consistent family checkins and just to know how we're all doing all the time that way too. Um, and then to get into like a larger picture like soup ingredients of coming back. So, so much of what learned about grief and loss and about myself as a grieving person, again, came from the stories of other people. And this goes far beyond the LGBT spectrum. This goes into books, into memoirs, into, mmm. Even like other podcasts especially, I know I said at the beginning, podcasts are great and really accessible for grievers because you just listen, you don't have to like read anything with your eyeballs and your brain hurts a lot when you're grieving.

Shelby: 00:33:18 And so to just get to absorb through audio instead of focus on something, it was really helpful. Um, yeah, so I, it's really been a combination of a great deal of things, but that first lightning bolt moment on the phone with my aunt slash God was really what tipped me from this place. I said this on another podcast, uh, interview I believe the podcast is called. Yeah, thank you. Heartbreak. Um, another interview I did over there, I tipped from this point of helplessness in just surrender and it's a very, very fine line between helplessness and surrender. I'm just going to let those words thinking of for a minute and let them resonate with me. Um, yeah. First of all, I think it's really cool that your aunt is a medium. I've never been to one, but shoot, I guess I should try it.

Kat: 00:34:17 Now. Going back to the conversation that you had with your aunt on the phone, um, and that phrase that came to your mind like, honey, let me just hold you, or something like that. Do you think that that was God saying that to you or that that was like your mom saying that to you through God? Um, I would definitely be interesting to see what you think about that because it's like, oh, if my mom said this, then I know that like, she really loved me no matter what,

Shelby: 00:34:54 what, and no matter how we left, you know, her life and no matter how we left things off before she left this world, like Abbott, that was a really nice realization. If it was, um, I don't know. I don't think you're wrong at all. I think, um, I think it's hard to distinguish. It's hard to draw the line between where does my mom start and God begin because for as much as, um, for as much as I don't necessarily adhere to like a Christian faith anymore, I believe this is my personal belief. Anybody who's listening, you have the right to your story. And your experience as well. Um, what our loved ones died. They join the realm of the spiritual. And so, um, I don't, I don't really know. I believe that the voice that was speaking to me in that moment was God, like the, the Almighty universe, the life force that keeps everything going, the thing that wants to support and hold me and everything that is alive in the world and like keep it safe and close and, and creative and loved and wonderful.

Shelby: 00:36:05 Um, but I do believe also that the message was universal. Like, Oh yeah, that could totally be applied to my mom. Um, and she came through and other and other readings and other experiences with my aunt as well, um, with her own messages and she's, she's found her own way of communicating with me over the years as well. So I know it's her when she shows up, I'm like, we've developed, we've had to relearn how to communicate with each other, which is like the weirdest thing. But kind of similar to how we have to learn to supply our own love. When somebody we love dies. It's like we have to relearn how to communicate with loved ones after they die because death doesn't stop our relationship. It just like changes the language that you have to speak in with the person who dies. And so my mom, when she shows up, she was lefthanded and she was the only person in my family who was, she shows up now on the left side of my body, like in my shoulder and my arm.

Shelby: 00:36:55 I'm like, oh, there you are. Um, or my sister and I will find money a lot pennies. And my mom was a person who would always pick up pennies off the sidewalks. Some people are like, oh no, that's trash or garbage or whatever it is. And she always valued like these little lucky penny moments. Um, and so we see her a lot through those. I see her a lot in birds and music. And then sometimes just the way that other people will tell a joke or we'll get a kick out of their own sense of humor, I'm like, oh my mom would like that. Or she would really like you. And seeing her and those spaces too. And then I actually just wrote an article a bit ago about how my biggest trigger for my own grief is my own face because the older I get, the more I start to look like my mom and like my sister and I are her spitting image and it's wild.

Shelby: 00:37:39 But every single time I pass by a mirror I think it's my mom and um, it's incredible just like the way is that she continues to show up and I think this is, this is for two reasons. I'm not lucky. I don't get these magical symbols because I'm special or because I am a great worker or whatever. I think I'm, I've put in the work to look for them. I think you have as much of a relationship with your person who died as you choose to have a, and I've chosen to really go full bore to the point of like straining my eyeballs to look for pennies on the streets, sometimes to continue a relationship with her. I wake up every morning, I'm like, okay, where are you? How are you showing up for me today? And I don't necessarily ask those questions outright, but there's this low level hum in the background all the time of like, okay, where's my mom? I'm going to show up and where is she? She like has never far from my consciousness. Yeah. I love

Kat: 00:38:35 how you were like saying trying to learn how to talk to your mom because there are still ways that you're going to communicate with her even if she is deceased. I mean that's just like how it's going to be, but obviously you can't talk to her. So you know, you have to figure out how am I going to see her in my life today? You know, some days it can be a matter of trying and some days she just shows up. But that's still learning how to communicate with someone who is no longer alive. So I love that you mentioned that facet of it. Going back to the whole like surrendering thing, do you think that you know your conversations with your mom and how you converse with them and how that changes? Do you think that that's like you surrendering in your grief and was it like, okay, like I am, can't grieve by myself.

Kat: 00:39:43 Like I need help grieving, like I surrender and then you started finding all those paintings like without trying, that's kind of how I'm thinking about the situation. I'm not really sure if that's, you know, accurate, but yeah, I gosh, surrendering to grave. I love that you said that because that's so important. Sorry. I know you said that and you know, previous statement, but it's so important to surrender in your grief because we cannot like grieve without help or support or anything like as much as it is an individual process, I mean it's literally impossible to try to grieve on your own. At least that's what I think. I mean it would be 20,000 times harder, so I'm definitely gonna work on surrendering and my grief. That's, yeah, that's going to be interesting.

Shelby: 00:40:44 I should probably correct myself a little bit here because I feel like I'm constantly surrendering. It's not like there was one moment of surrender and it's like, okay, now I've surrendered and I'm done with that. It's like every single, not necessarily every single day, but probably weekly. I need to surrender. I need to just have these moments where like I am not as in control as I think I am. This is not going how I want it to go. There's a picture of something happening here that is not what I want it to be and I start churning these like victim gears again and telling the story and sometimes, and this is just now coming to me, I have never used this visual before in my life, but I think I have this visual in my brain literally right now of the kind older gentleman who's standing to my left and he's a little balding and he's got some glasses on and acute like little wrinkly face, but he's got these pants on like old school church pants with suspenders on them in the pockets are huge and his offers like here, let me take that and just stick it in here for a while for safekeeping and he has no intentions to do anything with it.

Shelby: 00:41:44 He has no power to transmute or alchemize whatever the pain is. He just wants to carry it for a while. And sometimes I, I can picture myself just getting to this point where I'm like, oh, I'm so sick of carrying this, can someone else please just take this? And I'm like, okay, here you have this. And so even if it remains to be a warrior, an issue in my life, I'm like, okay, I'm not carrying that. Um, which is really neat. And Yeah, I aligned with this idea of having these moments of surrender. And they also come to, I mean, again and hearing the stories of other people and you say, grief is something that is an individual process. And I say, yeah, grief is unique and individual and we can't do it alone. So it's like, yes. And, um, so yeah, again, looking to these stories of other people, whether it's through podcasts, like having you on, coming back, um, or books that I read or bloggers or Instagram, people that I follow, I'm like anyone who can give me any shred of insight about what it's like to surrender in grief over and over and over again.

Shelby: 00:42:50 Even if grief looks like depression or eating disorders or divorce or breakups or the loss of a parent or the loss of a baby or whatever the loss is, it doesn't necessarily have to be death, death of a parent, death of a mother. It doesn't have to be that specific, but anyone who can be, uh, a model of that for me on a regular basis. I want you on my team. Like I want you in my club. I want you in my feed. I want you showing up in my email inbox. I want you anywhere I can find you. Because if I keep telling myself these messages of, look, other people are out here surrendering, you can do it too. You're not alone. Um, it also reminds me that I have some kind of power. I'm like, I have the power and decision to surrender as well.

Shelby: 00:43:33 So render is not a passive process for as much as people think, like in war analogies and stuff. Especially like, oh, they've surrendered. They've given up, they've, you know, no longer have any hope, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, no, no. You have to make an active choice to hand over something that's really bugging you, are pissing you off or weighing on you to something larger. Whether it's the analogy of the Nice old man who just has really deep pockets and wants to carry things around for you. Um, or if it's something as large as like telling God how pissed I am at him and then for him to be, can I just hold you for a second? Like can we just hang on to you for a while? Um, it comes in small and large scales, but surrender is something that's incredibly, incredibly conscious and powerful that is extremely important to point out. It's 100% not an active, I mean not a passive process. It is very active and you have to like continually work at

Kat: 00:44:32 it just like you have to continually work at your grief. But it is definitely helpful not being alone in your grief and finding someone who can relate to your loss and, or you know, someone that you get comfort from. For me it was, you know, finding other women that I've lost a mom. But for you it could be, you know, just somebody who's grieving in general. Um, yeah, I mean they can't do it alone. So sometimes you just have to admit that you can't do it alone and that you need support and you need help and that's okay. That doesn't mean anything. Like that doesn't mean that you're weak or crazy or anything like that. But yeah, you bring up a very good point. Like that's just how grief works. And when you talk to other people and you see that like you're not alone, which is crazy how much comfort that brains and like how much you realize like yeah, this sucks, but it sucks a lot less knowing that somebody else is going through something. Just a Sucky, I'm sorry, I just said sucks a lot or multiple versions of it, but yeah. How do you feel about that? Like what are your thoughts? Like were you actively looking for the support in your grief or did it just kind of happen? Like, was it just a sign that like, hey, my mom is here and she is and she is telling me that it's okay to surrender and to essentially get help. It almost seems like she was showing up when you receive like, like

Shelby: 00:46:27 your support. Um, I kind of received a sign, which is a weird thing. Again, this has to do with me always being on the hunt for signs, uh, from my mom and one of the very first books that changed my outlook on grief and loss or made me recognize how much power I have within loss as not a victim. I have at least 1% responsibility in what happens for the rest of my life as a book called the grief recovery method. And it was written in the 1980s by these two guys, one who had gone through a pretty catastrophic divorce and the other one who had experienced a death. And it takes you through this framework of laying out your entire relationship first with grief, then your relationship with loss over the course of your life and then your relationship with one person. So it gets gradually more specific and eventually at the end of the course, you, you right, uh, you essentially complete what was left in complete by the loss, whether it was death, divorce, any of a list of like 40 something odd losses you can experience within your life. And these statements are really simple. Like, I'm sorry for this, I forgive you for that. Thank you so much for teaching me this. But these statements or things that you didn't get to say before your loved one died. And um, they're really powerful ways to kind of,

Shelby: 00:47:50 to close the circle. But then a reminder too that as life continues, things like milestones of graduation or getting married or having kids or whatever, you're going to need to have like ps conversations with your person, like the conversation doesn't actually ever end. Um, but it was really, really helpful and powerful tool for me. And I was just on their website one day and I was kind of poking around, uh, looking for more of their history in the book. And I found out that I could be trained to lead this course for other people. And I'm like, oh, interesting. I could connect with other grievers in that way. Um, I could lead workshops in the city of Chicago, whether or not people would actually want them, but like I could do like a scholarly level grief study. And I joke on my podcast coming back that, uh, my loss has made me a student of grief. So I feel like I'm always learning about what it means to be in this experience. And I looked for the closest training program to Chicago and literally the day that I was on the website, uh, I clicked over to the training page. I found the closest training to the city of Chicago. I was going to have to take a train out beyond the suburbs to get to it.

Speaker 3: 00:48:55 MMM.

Shelby: 00:48:57 But it was the last day to register at early bird pricing and the city where the course was taking place was the city where my parents got married. And I was like, if this is not a sign that I should at least pursue this for my own selfish interest and to connect with other grievers, I'm going to do it. And so I dropped the cash to do it and it was a four day weekend with a bunch of other grievers from around the Midwest actually. And we were all trained in this modality together. So now I am trained to lead courses in the grief recovery method. And um, beyond that, it was an opportunity for me to tell my story again because for all intents and purposes, the grief recovery methods should happen over the course of like seven to 12 weeks or so. And this was expedited where you experienced what you're going to be teaching clients within the course of three days. And to release my mom again in that kind of relationship structure format in the presence of other human beings who could witness for me, Oh my God, I literally had a breakdown in the middle of this room as we were sharing our, our letters at the end of this course. And I was held and witnessed in a way and my partner was a woman who had lost a child and so it was so incredible. But to just be sitting across from her and having this experience with her specifically.

Speaker 3: 00:50:14 MMM.

Shelby: 00:50:16 Oh my God. It was so incredible to be trained in that process. And that kind of kickstarted this thing of Oh my God, I could be doing something more with this. And that slowly morphed into me continuing read books about grief and memoirs and things. And I started sharing them on Facebook, like all these little quotes and snippets I would find cause I was interested in them. I thought other people might be too. And some, and people started approaching me saying, hey, you should do something with this. And so I started a Facebook page just called Shelby for Cynthia. My name is Shelby Forsyth, but I added a, the I and a onto the end because I like flowers a lot for Cynthia is like a plant that blooms yellow in the spring. Um, and I was like, if I ever publish a book, I want it to be close to by name, but not quite my name.

Shelby: 00:50:57 And I didn't even think I was going to publish a book at that time. But I'm like, if there's anything about me publicly, this is what I want it to sound like. For some reason I was just very attached to this. And so I started releasing, this was probably back in 2016 so three years out from the loss from my mom, I would do Facebook lives every single Wednesday. And this intuitive coach came up to me during a business coaching session and she had heard me speak during the session and she was like, I don't know why, but I just got this message for you. You need to use your voice. And I was like, holy crap, that's the kick in the butt. I need it. And the next day I went live on Facebook. And so I started doing Facebook lives every Wednesday and I was sharing this dream with people and talking about, um, kind of these things about grief that fascinated me.

Shelby: 00:51:37 And everyone came back to me like, why don't you start a podcast? And that was another kick in the butt that I needed. And I heard it from enough people that I was like, okay, I should start doing this now. And create that bigger platform. And it was amazing. It kind of crossed my mind before and I leaned on podcast in my own grief. But the process of doing it, it's like, I don't know what you think about that. And so I literally self-taught through youtube courses and research and, and joining a bunch of Facebook groups and asking experts there. I'm like, what Mike should I use? How do I edit this? What server platform do I use? I don't know. The first thing about it, I self taught the whole thing. I put up my very first like rickety little episode in May of 2017.

Shelby: 00:52:16 Uh, and then just this past year, I celebrated two whole years of coming back being on the air and kind of when I say grief work, the work that I do is, it's threefold. So I offer tools like these practical things like the grief recovery method, um, things like the wolf in the basement, like these visual analogies that help people latch onto, oh, this is what grief looks like for me. Or even tools like calling in your inner child or making anxiety, a person that we can talk to and have a conversation with in the midst of loss. So tools come in. Uh, the second thing that I do is space massive space holder for people, whether it's witnessing somebody loss one on one through coaching, which I also do, or through the grief recovery method or through Reiki, which I also got trained in the spiritual energy modality.

Shelby: 00:53:04 Um, and just providing space for people to share their stories and having that space be non-analytical nonjudgmental noncritical. Like I'm not out to diagnose or fix anybody, that's not my job. Just put your story here and I, I use this analogy of the dining room table. Like just dump all your shit out on the dining room table and we'll sort through it together. Like that's the kind of space you can expect with me. Um, and then support, and this involves a community level. And so with the podcast, I started a private Facebook group called the Grief Growers Garden where people can come in and share their stories and photos and really hard days are questions about estates or feeling helpless or talking about death with kids. Just like any topic, you can come in and share. And we're constantly sharing things with each other, which is really cool.

Shelby: 00:53:48 Um, so beyond getting support from me, they can get support from other people who've been listening to the show and tuned into these tools and tuned into this idea of what it's like to hold space. And so now they know how to do these things for each other. And so I can kind of step back and be like, you guys know how to do this, you know, file a little birdies, fly little grief birds. Um, and, uh, and it's never where I'm totally hands off, but I can, I can step back with this knowledge and faith that okay, now that they have heard the stories from me and from the guests that I bring onto the show and from the work that I do, um, they can kind of take their grief into their own hands and have their own coming back experiences and journeys with it, which is really cool. And so that tools space and support framework in the aftermath of loss, I mean it's what helps me. It's what I found. I found my own tools. I found my own space where I was welcome and I found my support where I needed it. But to be able to offer it all inclusive in this one space, through a podcast, through coaching, through just like exposure to the stories of other people is really incredible. And, and to just

Kat: 00:54:50 okay

Shelby: 00:54:51 be the host of that platform or to be the liaison between somebody else's story and a grieving heart is like wicked. Cool.

Kat: 00:55:00 Yeah. I was about to ask how you got into podcasting. Um, it seems to be kind of by accident. I mean, isn't that how we all get into it at this point? But yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth. Um, but yeah, it's so important for a griever to find, um, you know, their space in their group and community is so, so, so important and a lot of times they don't know how to like create it. So the fact that, you know, like you're able to create that for your type of griever and like we're able to create this like, I mean you, it goes to show like you're not alone. Like I never thought that I would meet so many women who've lost a mom until I started talking to other people and I realized like, wow, like we automatically had this connection because we've both been through basically the same thing and we both experienced the same loss. And that right there just makes a community and there's just something so comforting and reassuring about that. Um, yeah, that's all I really have to say to that. But is there anything else that you would just love to leave with the listeners, you regarding how to cope with this loss, knowing that your mom left the world in the midst of Y'all being in a fight because a note, you're not the only one who has gone through that.

Shelby: 00:56:41 Um, well, the tagline of my podcast is because even through grief we are growing, and this is something that I wish someone would've told me while I was grieving is like, hey, even if you don't recognize it, you're growing because you're, everything is literally a new experience for you right now. So you're literally learning how to life again after loss has happened. And then as, as time goes on and as you continue to pull in tools that are useful to you in space and support that is useful to you, you start to look back and you're like, oh yeah. Even when I thought I was stuck, I was growing. Even when I thought it was over, I was growing. Even when I thought the conversation was over, I was growing. And the system. This is something that gives me chills when I talk about, um, because it's what I needed to hear.

Shelby: 00:57:34 There's something that Sheryl Sandberg covers in her book. Option B. Uh, it's called the three p's and I don't ever remember what all of them are. I think its pervasiveness, permanents and personalization. But the one that I remember the most is permanence because when we're in the aftermath of loss, our brands are so freaked by everything that's just happened. The story we tell ourselves as this is the way it's going to look for the rest of my life, like this is awful and horrible and horrendous and I can not see a way out of this. So this must be what forever looks like in my life. And that is absolutely soul crushing. And I was in that place of like, I'm going to be mad forever. I'm not going to be loved forever. I'm not accepted forever. I am helpless forever. I'm a victim forever. And for me to receive this message of even through grief, we are growing to know that even when I believe all of these things, if I'm going to be loveless, helpless, victim, whatever, for the rest of my life, even to know and I am growing in some way through this, it just releases the tiniest bit of pressure.

Shelby: 00:58:38 And I'm like, just a little bit, I can breathe in this space and that to somebody who is craving just a tiniest breath of fresh air, I'm like, that's all I need. I can make it till tomorrow to know that I am growing through this in some way that I cannot understand yet. Um, it's incredible. And so I think if I were to leave anybody with anything, it's like no matter where you are in your grief right now, if you believe that this is going to look exactly like this forever, wherever you are, you're growing. And you don't have to be consciously growing. There are people who are consciously growing with it. They're pursuing the books or the podcasts or the communities or the tools or whatever. They're actively reaching for it. But if you're actively reaching for nothing and you're like, how can I possibly be through this? Just know that you are by being human and alive and experience something new in this moment by having the experience of grief, you are growing already. So like it's okay, you don't have to work so hard. You don't have to try so hard handed over to somebody or something else that can carry it for you because you're already growing. You're already doing the work. Absolutely right. Yeah.

Kat: 00:59:42 Um, I used the word permanents a lot when it comes to grief because it's so easy to get high down in your permanents and you're like, okay, like this is my new normal. You know, you get so stuck in it and it's super duper hard to get out sometimes because you have your mind wrapped around the fact that like, Hey, this was permanent. You know, my mom's not coming back. Which yeah, you're like, you need to have that realization. But also to a certain extent, like you have to be realistic. But yeah, 100% like your face of grief is not permanent and that is very important to realize that like, hey, even though this new normal is like a permanent situation, like I can't 100% grow through my grief, I'm not going to be miserable forever. Like I will be happy. I will somehow eventually be in the best place that I've been since my loss, regardless of how I get there. But like I will grow through my grief and I will be happy and I will live a good life despite the hand that I have been dealt.

Kat: 01:00:55 Yeah, I just wanted to thank you so much for being on the show. Ever since I started like the grief work in podcasting, I was like, oh my gosh, I have to have Shelby. She is like my grief idol and I'm just so glad that you said yes. So this is so much fun. Yeah, I am so glad you enjoyed it. Hey friend, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Before you go, I have three favors to ask you. First, I wanted to let you know the [inaudible] Group for women where we share our day to day stories, challenges, and victories. If you want to come along for the ride, head to Facebook and search for life after losing mom community. Second, if you don't mind leaving me a review and telling me how I've helped you in your grief journey, I would greatly appreciate it. Finally had to cap on our.com forward slash podcast to access previous episodes and subscribe for episodes in the future.

Speaker 4: 01:01:49 [inaudible]

Speaker 4: 01:02:09 this has been an OutsourceYourPodcast.com production.

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Life After Losing Mom

enAugust 21, 2019

How To Become More Confident After Losing Your Mom With Diane Langness

Welcome to Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. In this episode, we’re joined by, Diane Langness. On this episode, Diane shares how joining the military gave her confidence and how you can have more confidence in your life.

What To Listen For

Diane story of piecing together the facts about how her mother died in an accident.
How Diane and her sister were left to basically raise themselves.
The impact that seeing a woman in uniform had on Diane’s life.
How getting involved with other women who have lost their mom enabled Diane to realize she’s not alone.
How losing her mother at a young age played into Diane’s self-esteem growing up.
The idea that being kind to yourself is key to managing your grief.
Strategies for increasing your confidence.
How Diane remembers that her mom is always with her in spirit.

Resources From This Episode:

Diane On Facebook

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Life After Losing Mom

enAugust 14, 2019

Understanding How Your Mom's Past Led To Her Demise With Deborah Morbeto

Welcome to Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. In this episode, we’re joined by artist and mother, Deborah Morbeto.

What To Listen For

How Deborah’s mother passed suddenly.
How the element of surprise makes processing a traumatic event even more difficult.
Deborah’s mom’s fear of death and its role in her life.
How unhealthy relationships can take a toll on your health even when you’re physically healthy.
The oxygen mask metaphor for relationships and how that’s crucial in your relationships.
How Jada’s relationship with her mom evolved from tumultuous teenage years into a best friendship
The mixed messages that we receive in today’s culture.
How to be a woman in modern times.
Why it’s important for women to own property and a secure financial plan in place.
How hard it can be to watch someone spending money they don’t have to buy things that won’t bring them what they actually need.
The sense of loneliness and isolation you feel when you lose your only parent.
How losing your mom can feel like losing a limb.
How to process emotions through creativity and art.

Deborah lost her mom suddenly when she seemed to be in good physical health. But her mom wasn’t healthy emotionally and ultimately led to her demise. Deborah uses art and creativity to process her emotions and teaches others to do the same. How you process is up to you but it’s important to try and find an outlet or activity that works for you.

Resources From This Episode:

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Life After Losing Mom

enAugust 07, 2019

Becoming At Peace With Losing Your Mom Feat. Priscilla Cope

Welcome to Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. In this episode, we’re joined by Priscilla Cope. She is a student, dispatcher, wife, chihuahua mom, and paranormal investigator. She’s staying busy as she moves through life without her best friend.

What To Listen For

The story of Priscilla’s mother's sudden diagnosis of bladder cancer.
Priscilla’s experience with having a deaf mother and how Priscilla’s first language was actually sign language.
How hard it can be losing your mom at a crucial age, such as during the teenage years.
How Priscilla’s mom had to just stop treatment to be with her family in her final days.
How Priscilla’s grief caused her to block out much of her memories from high school.
Priscilla’s experience needing to care for her 8-year-old brother and how that caused her to avoid processing her grief.
The link between depression and grief.
How Priscilla began to self-mutilate as a cry for help.
Dealing with a parent that’s alive and doesn’t want anything to do with you - and how that’s so much worse than a parent being gone that loved you.
Priscilla’s experience of doing everything herself.
The story of Priscilla’s significant other kicking her out.
Priscilla’s story of being put on suicide watch and then making a huge life change and moving from Philly to Florida.
How to use arts and nature as an outlet for expression and a way of keeping yourself busy.
Realizing that grief can cause you to stop playing music and doing the things you love and that keep you healthy.
How to take it day by day and remember that your mother’s spirit is here with you.
Priscilla’s journey to being a funeral director.

Priscilla’s advice is to be patient with yourself. Try taking each day one step at a time and experiment with ways to stay healthy. It could be exercise, nature or the arts. The key is finding whatever works for you.

Resources From This Episode:

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Life After Losing Mom

enJuly 31, 2019

Coping With Perinatal Depression After Losing Your Mom With Amanda Ingram

Welcome to Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. In this episode, we’re joined by Amanda Ingram. Amanda is the admin for The Motherless Mothers of New England and shares her grief journey and specifically how she’s managed her battle with postpartum depression without her mom.

What To Listen For

Amanda’s recollection of losing her mom to a staph infection at the age of 12.
Amanda’s feelings of anxiety surrounding her mom’s premenopausal diagnoses and how this might be something in Amanda’s future.
How Amanda views her mom as a “big fighter” (she fought cancer for three and a half years) and the light in the room.
How Amanda dealt with the fact that her Dad didn’t take responsibility for her after her mom passed.
Amanda’s experience of moving in with her grandmother and then losing her only three years after her mom. “Essentially I've lost two mothers.”
Amanda’s struggle with perinatal depression.
How motherless women have a significantly higher risk of developing mental health problems when starting a family.
How to process the trauma that happened in the past.
How motherless women tend to fall on a spectrum of wanting children or not wanting children depending on how they process their grief.
Amanda’s experience with perinatal depression and how it made her feel like she was having an “out of body experience.”
How Amanda got help from postpartum.net
Grief’s cyclicality and how unprocessed grief can show back up in your life ...even when you’re pregnant.
Amanda’s recommendation to read Motherless Daughters by Hope Edelman.
Tips for managing misdirected anger as a result of losing your mom.
How one must talk about their grief in order to process it.
Info on Amanda’s group Motherless Daughters of New England.

Amanda is very open about her struggles with perinatal depression and coping with losing her mother and her grandmother at a very young age. Through the connection with others and opening up, she is managing her grief the best she can and hopes others can do the same. She wants to impart the message that you are not alone and that connecting with others is key to managing grief.

Resources From This Episode:

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Life After Losing Mom

enJuly 24, 2019

Coping With Not Having Your Mom As Part Of Your Life With Sharnelle Gervais

Welcome to Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. In this episode, we’re joined by Sharnelle Gervais. She lost her mom in a tragic accident when she was only 15 years old.

What To Listen For

How Sharnelle wishes she could’ve said goodbye to her mom for closure because it still doesn’t seem real.
How Sharnelle had to immediately step into a caretaker role for her siblings when her mom passed.
Kat’s observations on how age affects the way you process grief.
Sharnelle’s struggle watching her father move on and begin a new relationship.
Kat’s tips for “feeling what you’re feeling” in order to process grief.
How PTSD can affect memory.
What to do when you realize all the ways your mom won’t be apart of your life in the future.
The role of anger in the grief process and how to deal with it.
How Sharnelle began to experience other teenagers taking their parents for granted.
Sharnelle’s experience of living in a small town and it’s effect on her social life.
How losing your mom makes it hard to let any other mother figures into your life.
Sharnelle’s realization that she was going to have to figure out how to take care of herself because no one else would.
That comparing yourself to others can steal joy from your life.
Setting up constructive boundaries in relationships.
How to confide in a significant other.

Sharnelle is not alone in losing her mom at such an early age, but her raw honesty about losing her mom helps give other women going through the same thing comfort and hope. Without sugar-coating her feelings, Sharnelle opens up about the hard reality of processing grief while supporting others and learning to let new people into her life.

Resources From This Episode:

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Transcript

Voiceover: 00:00 In 2013 Kat Bonner lost her mom in a tragic car accident. She figured out how to manage her grief and is helping other women do the same. On this podcast, you'll hear from other women who have lost their moms and discover the exact coping strategies you need to get through the day and be in the best place you've ever been. Don't miss another episode. Subscribe today. More information can be found Katbonner.com/podcast and if you'd like to join a group of likeminded women had to Facebook and search for the life after losing mom community. Lastly, if you're looking for help managing your grief book a complimentary connection call Katbonner.com
Kat: 00:48 so before we get started with the episode, I just want to share something with you. I'm sure you've heard multiple times that grief is an individual process. Well, the people you heard this from aren't wrong because it very much so is you're probably wondering how can someone help me when they grieve differently than I do? That's why I'm so passionate about one on one coaching that is totally customized to you and your pain points. I let you guide me two ways. I can help you. I can only take on three clients at a time. So the spots are limited. I'd love for you to tell me how I can help you in your grief journey.
Speaker 2: 01:34 [inaudible]
Sharnelle: 01:36 I was 15 when my mom passed away. She was in aquatic accident. So we lived in our little small village, about a half an hour away from, uh, a larger city. And uh, our or her parents lived on an acreage just outside of that village. And we'd always just ride our quads up to the acreage and then ride them home while we were all at school one day. And my mom was going about her regular day and she, um, was riding her quad home from my grandparents house and she lost control of the quad and ran into a power pole. And then by the time emergency services arrived, she was in stable condition, but, um, she ended up going into cardiac arrest on the way to the hospital. Um, so she didn't end up making it. They couldn't revive her. So I remember it like it was yesterday. I was in school in the town half an hour away and I got a text from my uncle saying that he was going to pick me up and I thought it was really weird, um, because I always just would ride the bus home.
Sharnelle: 02:45 So I was like, okay. So he picked me up and my brother was there and I think my sister was there too. I can't really remember. But, uh, he said that my mom was in an accident and that we had to go to the hospital. So I was like, oh no, like this isn't good. Is She okay? And he didn't really answer. So my dad was actually about three hours or so late working at the time, so he ended up having a police escort to the town to meet us at the hospital. So we were waiting at the hospital was my grandma and my uncle. And, um, my dad arrived and then they told us that she didn't make it, that she had gotten to quoting accident and that she had died. Um, so at this point I was 15, my brother was 10, I think, and my sister was 19, I believe, 19 or 20.
Sharnelle: 03:44 And um, we were asked if we wanted to see her and say goodbye. And at the time I was 15 so I was like, no, I don't want to see my dead mom. So I opted out, which now looking back on it being almost 11 years this year, I really should have said yes because I feel like that would have provided a little bit more closure cause it's still just kinda doesn't seem like it's real. Like it's like she is just going to, you know, walk in and be like, Hey, sorry, I missed the past 10 years, but it really doesn't. And it was definitely the hardest thing I've ever gone through. Um, especially for being 15. I remember waking up the next morning because my mom wasn't there and I made everybody breakfast. And from then on I just kinda had to take care of them, my brothers specially. And I, cause my sister was so old, she wasn't even at home. So it was my dad and it was me and my little brother. And it was, I, I don't, I don't even know how to explain it. It was so unexpected and I, I don't, I honestly never really grieved I guess. Cause now like 10 coming on 11 years later, I still know that I just suppressed it. I didn't do anything about it.
Kat: 05:17 Yeah, it's, I noticed that a lot. Sorry, this is just my first thought. So this is just coming to my head and then I'll get back to your story a little bit, but I feel like just people who lose their mom when they're younger, I mean, I guess to some people, 15 might be old. Um, but I consider that younger, so, and they're really like pivotal years that they like really repressed their grief and bottle it up. And then they really started to grieve years and years later. And that might not even be intentional, which is crazy because you're like, oh my God, how did I actually put this off for so long? And then there's another thing, degree of on top of actually grieving the loss and you're like, yeah, go like this makes no sense. So how, for starters, I want to say I'm so sorry for your loss.
Kat: 06:14 I know that everybody literally probably always tells you that, but sometimes I just feel like I'm compelled to say it. Yeah. And sorry. Thanks. Interesting to me though that you kind of took over the motherly role when, I mean, I can understand like for your brother, but your dad was there. So can you tell me a little bit more about the dynamic? Like were y'all not close, you know, was he really like struggling in his grief? Like what made you feel like, or did you, you know, feel like you had to be more of a caretaker even though he was there?
Sharnelle: 06:50 Um, yeah. So my, it was only for a little while because, and I, I have to be careful what I say just because I don't want to hurt my father's feelings cause I know he's going to want to listen to this. But he, yeah. Um, I, he definitely, it was really hard. He lost his wife and the mother of his children, so he was definitely going through a really hard time. He ended up losing his job because of it. And He, um, I just felt like I should help with some of this stuff because he never really was alone. He was with my mother's since he was like 19. And, um, it's just, it was, I don't know, I guess I'll just felt like I should help my brother and my dad deal with that. Um, it wasn't for very long. It was only about a month or two.
Sharnelle: 07:45 And then his, my dad rekindled a relationship with his ex who he had a kid with just before he got together with my mom and she ended up moving in with her son because of their personal issues with her ex husband. Um, and that really kind of affected me. I just kind of from there just shut down I guess and kind of close everybody out and just kind of started moving on with my own life. Um, because it was so sudden like, and I know that he needed to move on and whatever, and I don't blame him, but I know that it was really hard for us as kids to have our mom passed away and then just a few months later have some other woman move in and try to take care of us, I guess.
Kat: 08:52 Oh, bless your heart. Yeah. I, there's always so many feelings that, you know, come along with grief and I think that one of the hardest things to process, it's like how can you feel so many things at one time? And it really just goes to show that like you just have to like literally allow yourself to feel how you're feeling because that's the only way that you're going to get through those feelings and the only way that you're going to be able to process them. But I am curious, do you, maybe, and I hear this a lot from women just because I think it's because they're a woman, but do you think that you maybe took on the motherly role because like you're a female?
Speaker 5: 09:46 Um,
Sharnelle: 09:46 I guess it's mostly just because I am such an empath myself.
Speaker 5: 09:52 I, um,
Sharnelle: 09:55 just knew how they felt and I wanted to try to make them feel better, I guess. And I guess that could be because I'm a woman. I'm,
Kat: 10:04 you probably never really thought about it. No, that's so funny. Yeah. Well sometimes it just depends on people's personality, which is definitely a great asset to have. Bless your heart. I hope it didn't make things harder on yourself. Um, so I guess growing up, like were you and your mom, I mean, obviously you have a different relationship with your mom than you have with your dad, but were you more of like a mama's girl or a daddy's girl?
Sharnelle: 10:36 No, I was definitely more of a daddy's girl. Um, and I still kind of am to this day. Um, my mom had really, really, really bad depression, so she oftentimes didn't get out of bed. And, um, we had to make our own lunches for school because my dad was away working and, um, we didn't like super have a close relationship, I guess. It's honestly like I have a really hard time remembering anything from my childhood and I think it's just like PTSD from the accident and kind of how I just dealt with everything. I just pushed it all the way. And for some reason I just can't remember a lot of it.
Speaker 5: 11:27 Um, I know that I
Sharnelle: 11:31 thinks that I pretty much was just a daddy's girl and my brother was like a mama's boy and my sister is kinda like a mama's girl too. Um,
Speaker 5: 11:42 but I [inaudible]
Sharnelle: 11:45 honestly, like, I just don't remember much about my childhood.
Kat: 11:49 Yeah. It's though that's the kind of thing I feel like ask your parents and then you don't have your parents and you're like, oh, well, there goes that. Um, yeah. And it's so interesting because you know, even if you're a daddy's girl or a mama's girl or whatever, I mean just like there's something special about a father daughter relationship. Like there's just some things that you can't go to your dad too. And I think that's why like it's so different and it's so hard being a woman, losing your mom because it's like you literally lost the person who raised you, but she is like your same like sex, like she like literally has like your same composition and you don't like, you know, maybe you have to feel like you explain yourself, you know, where that sort of thing that women might feel like with a woman. Man, I don't know at this point I'm probably like rambling, but when I guess after,
Sharnelle: 12:49 yes,
Kat: 12:49 your mom's passing, did you realize that like, hey, this is Herman. It like, you know, I don't have my mom here to share like my life with anymore. Like was it immediate?
Speaker 6: 13:03 Um,
Sharnelle: 13:04 yeah, I guess it really was. And I just cried and cried and cried forever because like the things that I do remember, um, with my mom, it just, it was just like these flashes where it's like, well now your mom's not gonna be at your graduation and your mom's not gonna be at your wedding and your mom's not gonna be there when you have your own kids to even ask questions to like, in order to be like, mom, my baby has a fever, what do I do? Things like that. Like I never, as soon as she passed away, it's like all those things came into my head. Like, you know, you, you will, you don't have anybody to ask.
Kat: 13:50 Yeah, exactly. You don't realize that until they're not there. And you're like, well shit, they're good is that, and yeah, exactly. I mean, no matter what, you cannot prepare yourself for this loss. But I think when the loss is unexpected, it's literally a ginormous slap in the face. And you're like white. I, and I, you know, I can't attest to like having any side to loss because my mom's passing was also unexpected, but just based on like my knowledge, it's like, okay, like this was so unexpected and like, especially being so young, I mean you can't really, I like prepare like, oh, like if I knew my mom was sick, me personally, like I would've thought about who am I going to go to when I'm going to need my mom? For things just almost preparing in advance for that. Like, no, you can't prepare your emotions, but do you know what I'm saying? Yeah.
Sharnelle: 14:46 To mentally prepare yourself and to be able to also just let your parent know that you know you love them before it happens. Like when my mom passed away, we weren't really affectionate. Like, yeah, we'd hug and stuff like that. But we never really told each other that we loved them. So I don't even remember what the last thing I said to my mom was. Whereas if I were to, if my dad were to pass away, I'd know. Or like even my siblings, I'd know that the last thing I said to them was, I love you because every time we talk now, we always end our conversation saying that we love each other.
Kat: 15:23 Exactly. And I mean, you've just kind of realized that because you've been through this loss, which is unfortunate, but I mean there's just, you know, kind of how it works. And it's so interesting. Like sometimes I've talked to some people and they're like, oh, I didn't reach out to any other woman for anything. You know, when my mom died, like they didn't reach out to their mom's friend or their aunt or anything like that. So did you find yourself, you know, doing that or longing for another mother figure? I'm sure
Sharnelle: 15:57 the only really person I kind of reached out to was my dad's mom. My grandma, she was like, so growing up, essentially each kid had their own set of grandparents that they would hang out with, I guess in the summer. So my sister went to my mom's parents and I went to my dad's mom's and my brother went to my dad's debt. So since my mom had passed away, I always would call my grandma. She was a a nurse anyways, a registered nurse. And so I would usually just call her if I had any like medical questions even just to like hang out. And I ended up living with her for a little while too when I moved out of my, uh, dad's house. And, um, she was kind of like, I guess the mother figure purse say in my life because I was so mad at my dad. I didn't even want to have a relationship with his girlfriend and I had like a civil relationship, but it's just like I took it so personally that she was around. And even to this day, like I just [inaudible] I dunno, I guess it's because I felt like it was forced on me and I didn't want it at all. I didn't want it to be forced on me, so I just didn't really give it a chance.
Kat: 17:24 Yeah. It's really interesting when you realize that like, wow, I don't really get angry. And then like your mom dies and you're like, Holy Shit, I've, I'm like hairier than I've ever been in my entire life. And it's a really, really strange phenomenon. Especially, I mean, people cry, but I feel like anger, especially as one of those emotions that in women especially, it's so frowned upon and you're like, oh, like this is, it's just, I mean, it's fascinating, but it's very different process. Um, I am curious, do you think that your like relationship and your interactions with your grandma on your dad's side made the void worse from your mom or from not having your mom?
Sharnelle: 18:20 Um, I don't, I don't know. I guess there were, there was quite a few years there where I just didn't really reach out to anybody, I guess. Um, but when I, cause I went through like extreme depression myself. I tried to kill myself. I ended up in the hospital for awhile to get like my antidepressants regulated and all this stuff. So I think like during that time between like 16 and 18, I was just, I just kind of shut everybody out. And I was like just a typical teenager that just missed my mom. And I just kinda thought that not having anybody was better than trying to fill the void.
Kat: 19:12 Yeah, that's interesting that you say that because I'm sure that thought has gone through many of folks heads. I don't know if I said that right, but many people's heads, there we go. Um, at some point. And it's definitely a lot to think about because it's like, you know, when you reflect on your decisions as this choice making my grief worse or, you know, is it making my grief better? But do you think that like it was almost part of you coping, like with not having your mom to share your life with, like, was that a way that you cope with it by, you know, spending time with your grandma?
Sharnelle: 19:56 Uh, yeah, it was, it was really nice too. Cause we would like talk about my mom and she would share stories of things that I might've forgotten and um, and it was like, I always had like a really nice relationship with her. Um, so it was good to have like some sort of stability I guess when that all went down. Um, cause she was able to be like a constant that wasn't changing I guess.
Kat: 20:37 Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. It's like, okay, well at least you don't expect it to change. Like you're not sick, you know, like as far as I know. Yeah. Obviously unexpected can happen, but you had the thought in your head like, you know, okay, this is this and this is not going to change hopefully for x amount of time. And I at least, and let me know if you do too, you know, found it comforting to really have people who knew my mom to help me. And I mean family is nice, but that's not like direct family, you know, it's an in-laws. So there might be certain things that she didn't like that she knew about your mom. The other people did. So like, did she like tell you, I mean, well you said that she told you stories, but were they like stories that you expected or, yeah, I just tell me a little,
Sharnelle: 21:36 know more about that. Um, I think like she didn't necessarily have a lot of friends per se because we did live in such a small village and she didn't drive. So a lot of the times she kind of relied on other people to like her mother in law and my grandma to kind of do things with her in a sense. Um, so the stories that she would tell would just be like mostly about like family gatherings or things like that. Usually things that I was around, but I didn't necessarily like realize cause it was in the background or something like that. So it wasn't anything that I really wasn't aware of. Um, but she, yeah, I don't know. It was mostly just things, I guess that I was around for. Nothing too surprising.
Kat: 22:41 No. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Um, what would you say, like once you really started to cope with, you know, not having your mom as a part of your life, did you notice any like, you know, obvious changes when it comes to, you know, your actions or your traditions or just kind of things like that?
Sharnelle: 23:04 Um, I think I kind of started to happen right away. Just being more aware of other people's personal circumstances. For example, like before that, you know, we'd be typical teenagers, we'd be like, oh my mom is so annoying, she's making me come home or I'm grounded because I did this. And it's like after that happened I'm like, you know, I honestly give to have my mom ground me because I talked back. You know, you kinda realize that other people take their parents for granted when they don't realize it until it's gone. Like I didn't realize it until it was gone. And you just kind of, for me, I just take into consideration people's like things that they're going through. It makes me definitely more aware that not everything that you see is what it seems to be. That there could be another story behind it.
Kat: 23:59 Yeah, that's a really good point that you bring up. And I think especially when it comes to things like death and grief and things that aren't really the norm in society to talk about, people have a tendency to like, especially on social media, to only talk about like the good things. I'm like, yeah, the good things are great, but like, let's be honest and let's be real about what is actually going on here. Um, so did you notice like, I dunno, like you becoming maybe more introverted or extroverted. I mean obviously, okay, let me rephrase that. I don't think that made sense. So you like, you know, would cope with not having your mom by, you know, spending more time with your grandma. But when I guess when it comes time to like traditions or just everyday life, like, did you notice kind of that dynamic of the relationship just being more, you know, like friendly or did you see any relationships in your life become more mother bought or like,
Sharnelle: 25:10 um, I guess it was just more mother daughter. Like with my grandma, I myself, I guess. Yeah, became more extroverted. I became loud and boisterous. I dress crazy because I wanted attention. I guess. I,
Speaker 5: 25:28 um,
Sharnelle: 25:29 acted just like, like I was super happy and that I was loving life and whatever.
Speaker 5: 25:38 But I,
Sharnelle: 25:42 I definitely turned to my grandma a lot more as like a mother figure.
Kat: 25:47 That's so funny. Yeah, no, it definitely makes sense. It's, and I feel like just with family, that's where obviously it's, you're close to your family. I'm not going to say all family, but if you have like a decently close relationship to a female in your family, those relationships are probably more likely to become, you know, more mother daughter relationships. Um, so how did you like as you started to really coping grieve with, you know, that realization of like not having your mom to spend life with. Did you notice the dynamics of any other relationships in your life? Change? It's,
Sharnelle: 26:35 I guess it's just kind of like a broad question. I noticed that my dad was an like, I don't know, I guess like my dad probably was nervous to kind of show me how he really felt and show us kids in general. Like, and I can understand being a parent, you don't want your children to see you go through pain and be sad cause then it makes them sad. So I think that he definitely pushed down his actual feelings for sure. And in turn it just kind of distanced us a little bit as I got older and more into the teenage years. Um, so we didn't do things together. I spent a lot of time in my room as like, I guess I'm not sure if that's for every teenager, but for me, I was always in my bedroom. I didn't want to hang out with my family. I just would text with my friends and listen to music. That's really all I did all the time. So I guess like between that and my brother, I just was like [inaudible]. Yeah, no, I definitely can relate to that.
Kat: 27:59 Um, so tell me a bit more, you said that you've lived in like a small, like village. I'm very curious how this, kind of a side note, how did that like affects your grief?
Sharnelle: 28:11 Um, it, it definitely kind of stuck. They spent a lot of time alone. Um, and usually every weekend I would go and stay with my friends in the neighboring town, which was about a half an hour away. Um, and that was really the only time besides school. I got to see any of my other friends because of the small town. The only other friend I really had was, she lived across the street from me, but she was five years younger than me, so she was just a kid too, as I was going through all of this. So for the most part, I'd hang out by myself at the hockey ring and just sit at the park and not really kind of do much. Boy, I'm sorry. That sounds so rough. Yeah. So, and then on the weekends, I'd honestly just hang out with my friends in the neighboring town and I'm honestly like surprised that my father let me do that and he trusted me enough to let me go away for the weekends. And then I'd usually come home and do stuff at home. But it was, that was really the only time I got to kind of hang out with anybody besides my family.
Kat: 29:31 Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I mean, thankfully the debree town, I mean 30 minutes is pretty far, but at least it wasn't like three hours away. I'd be like, oh, Yay. This is really in the middle of BFE if the neighboring town is this far away. Um, yeah. You were saying with your neighbor, she was just, yeah, it was because she was 10 when your mom passed. So definitely pretty young. Uh, yeah, definitely. Probably could not relate to you on that level regardless of her age, but I'm sure that age, yeah, no, definitely, um, made a difference. So, uh, do you still, I guess kind of going back to, you know, your relationship with your grandma, do you, I mean, if you know she's alive or even if she's deceased, do you have the relationship with somebody else? Like, I basically, I guess, do you continue to cope with, you know, not having your mom to share life with in the same way that you did?
Sharnelle: 30:34 Um, I definitely used to, um, until two years ago, my grandma did pass away actually on the same day that my mother had passed away. Oh God. Um, blushing and that was like, it just brought all of these feelings back and it was just so evil because like, uh, we can, some few days before that, her dad had passed away, she passed away in her sleep and it was just like a lot at once. And ever since then I really honestly don't have a lot of,
Speaker 6: 31:13 um,
Sharnelle: 31:14 people to go to. Like I have my mother in law, which she is definitely great to go to if I want to, but it's almost like it's the whole,
Speaker 6: 31:25 um,
Sharnelle: 31:26 the whole process all over again from when I was 15 where, you know, I don't, I don't want anybody to ever replace my mom. And then it just like brings back all of these anger feelings where it's like, no, like I don't, I don't want this. But then at the same time I have to tell myself, you know, ought to be angry that somebody is trying to have a relationship with you. And it just so happens that she's a mother and you kind of just can't be mad at her for wanting to help you through these things because you don't have your mom. So it's like all of these angsty feelings coming back and then I have to be like, you know, cool. Your jets are not the end of the world that you have a mother-in-law that wants to have a good relationship with you. So it's almost like I try to self sabotage any potential mothering figure because I didn't choose it, you know?
Kat: 32:33 No, uh, yeah, that makes perfect sense. It's especially too, okay, you'll lose one mother figure at your mom and then, okay, I'm choosing to have a nother mother figure with somebody and they die and you're like, well shit. Like there goes to mother figures and you know, x amount of time. And yeah, I mean, people try and it's so, so hard when people are like doing things out of the kindness of their heart, but they're doing things that you don't want them to do. And the only mean, well, it's like, I don't know how to tell you.
Kat: 33:13 And bless your heart. I feel like, you know, if your mom had like, well I'm not saying shit and have a best friend cause that's going to sound really, really bad. But if there's somebody who maybe grew up with your mom and I really value that just like in my own personal life because those people like sometimes know you better than your family does. Um, so is there like, do you find yourself, I take that back. Why do you think that you found yourself wanting a mother figure when your mom passed but not after your grandma passed?
Sharnelle: 33:56 I Dunno, I guess because I essentially am tired of putting my trust in people and just to lose them I guess in a sense. Like I just feel like anybody that I love that just leaves me.
Kat: 34:09 Yeah, no, I definitely makes sense. And it's sad too, but it's also kind of, I don't even know what the right word is. Um, like riveting, encouraging that like at the end it really just goes to show that at the end of the day you have yourself and yeah, it sucks. Like yourself is enough. Like when you just keep getting eventually, like it's sad if you're used to losing people. I mean that's really, really, really unfortunate. But it's like, okay, like I really cannot rely on somebody else to help me get through this, so I'm gonna either have to figure it out myself or get help from somebody who might not like be close to me, who might just be like a random person or you know, whatever, and then figure out how to handle it myself. So eventually, like I just rely on myself. Does that make sense or am I rambling
Sharnelle: 35:10 that, that makes sense. Cause that's one thing I learned too when I was in the hospital, um, that you can really only rely on yourself. Truly. You can't change anybody but yourself. You can't control what anybody else does, but the only person that you can control is yourself. So it's just unfortunately a harsh reality. You just can only rely on yourself. So
Kat: 35:38 yeah, I mean that's all there really is to it. But once you realize that like, you can get through this on your own, you're like, Dang, I'm a bad ass. Like, yeah. Okay. It's like life is pretty great, you know, that kind of thing. But yeah, in the moment it's really sucky and it's hard cause it's like, especially when you see other people, they're like, oh well they have their moms to help them, or Oh God. It's like a literally comparison is the actual theft of all joy.
Sharnelle: 36:09 Yeah.
Kat: 36:09 But Oh, that's just, I mean it's hard not to get discouraged, but eventually it just becomes an easier part of life and grief because that's just how grief works. Yeah. Like how was it telling that person? Um, I believe you said it was your mother-in-law,
Sharnelle: 36:28 right?
Kat: 36:30 Um, how like did you tell her that like, you know, you didn't want a mother figure? I'm curious about how bad,
Sharnelle: 36:37 no, I, I, um, didn't tell her and I know that she herself treads really tend to, I think just because she doesn't want to upset me and I appreciate her, but I do kind of just like have pretty strict boundaries I guess when it comes to stuff like that. But I haven't really like told her. It's just, I guess something that I don't really talk about besides to, I guess my significant other. I just explained to him that, you know, I have a hard time trusting other women who potentially could be like, I guess a good influence or a good, a good person to be there for me. I just have a really hard time doing it. So I think that she just understands that and just kind of is pretty good about giving me my space and not trying to, you know, overstep boundaries, which I know that some mother-in-law's definitely do.
Kat: 38:02 Oh yeah. If I need you liked out there? Yeah. Oh Gosh. Yeah. I could go into a whole other episode about boundaries. Oh those are hard. They're hard just in life in general. And then you put grief on top of it and you're like, Oh God, this isn't going to be a really good or really, really bad. Yeah. Um, okay. That's, that makes me feel better cause I can totally attest to that though. Like not really trusting other women because I'll look back on it now and I'm like, you know,
Sharnelle: 38:34 okay.
Kat: 38:34 I don't have any
Speaker 6: 38:36 women in my life that are like a role model. I mean I have my mom's best friend, but they've been best friends since she was 21 so like that just kind of expected. But especially in my family, like in my immediate family, no, you know, it's interesting. I'd have to like really think about like why that is the case for so many women that have lost a mom. I mean I'm sure it's different for everybody, but when you really like look in, not look into it, when you, I guess when you're really like dissected, it's like it all kind of comes from the same thing, like a k losing your mom. So yeah, it's just interesting. But I'm glad that you at least were able to have that, you know, relationship with your grandma. But do you find yourself like, you know, since you at least don't really have that woman in your life that sounds really bad, but since you don't have like, you know, a motherly figure in your life, do you find yourself like kind of keeping in your grief or do you just tell other people that aren't woman? Um,
Sharnelle: 39:51 yeah, I guess I mostly just kind of rely on my significant other a lot more now. Um, I just try to communicate like a lot with him about how I'm feeling and
Speaker 6: 40:08 um,
Sharnelle: 40:08 it really just kind of, I don't know, it's almost like when my grandma passed away that I was mourning the loss of a mother again because like, even to this day, like my heart just aches because I miss her and I know exactly how my dad feels and it aches because I feel for my dad and my uncle because they had to lose their mom and I just feel like all of this stuff coming up again because of this loss and I just am trying to not let it take over. But it's like if I suppress it, then it comes out in other ways like anxiety when for example, like just talking about my family here on this, I'm all of a sudden in my mind I'm thinking like, oh my God, are they going to get mad at me when they listen to this? Like are they, maybe they didn't know that this is how I felt or, um, I just am like anxious thinking that everybody's going to take it personally and I just always have to tell myself that I'm allowed to feel this way and it'll all be okay.
Sharnelle: 41:32 But at the same time, it feels like the only person that I can really confide in is my significant other. Like I have a best friend, but you know, she has her own life now. She has boyfriend and she, we don't, we're not exactly the best at communicating. I guess. We don't really hang out. And I feel like again, I trusted her and she isn't necessarily there when I would like her to be, you know? Yeah, no, that definitely makes sense. Sorry, I'll let you finish. I guess maybe I put too much pressure on her because of not having a mother figure. Maybe I was projecting it on her, like I'm, I'm not really sure. And I guess now I'm just kind of realizing that that's maybe why I had such high expectations out of our relationship.
Kat: 42:33 Oh yeah. And it's literally like most of the time I noticed it's so unintentional. You're like, oh, like I didn't mean to like put you on a pedestal or you know, I didn't mean to expect this much out of you, but it's just kind of second nature, you know? It's kind of part of life. But Wow, I'm so glad that you have like a good relationship obviously from what you tell me with your significant other because that is so important. And like when you were saying communicating that I'm literally helping somebody. Like right now one of my clients, she's like, I need help communicating my feelings to my significant other. And I mean communication is key, but especially when you're grieving and it's so hard because you don't know how to communicate your feelings cause you're like, how the heck am I feeling? But it's like, okay, you need to communicate that.
Kat: 43:19 You don't know how you're feeling because people don't get that. It's hard. But that's so funny and I think it really just goes to show too, like the importance of creating space for people where they can talk about their grief and you are absolutely 100% allowed to, I think you said like I'm allowed to feel this way or I'm allowed to think about myself. Is that what you said? Yeah, I just said that I'm allowed to feel like my feelings. Yes, you are 100% allowed to feel your feelings. Like that's honest to God. The only way that you weren't going to grieve and the only way that you are going to like get through this nonsense. Um, 100% without a doubt. So that's like where space comes into play. It's like you have the space for people where they are allowed to grieve because if they don't, if they bottle it up like you might not like you might think it's okay, but eventually it'll literally come back to bite you in the ass and you are going to hit your breaking point. And it's so sad. But that's why it's so like, yeah. I'm just, I'm glad that you realized that at least from what you know, what you're telling me. Um, yeah. Is there anything else that you want to leave with the listeners about? I guess coping with, you know, not having your mom. Oh, I take that back. Wow, this is going to be fun editing. Um, what advice would you have to someone who is really struggling with the concept of not having their mom to share life with?
Sharnelle: 45:00 I guess it's okay to feel the way you feel and to reach out to others. Like I guess for me, I just projected it more on my friends and my grandma as, and then at times myself too. But it didn't end well for me just suppressing it. Like I ended up wanting to end my life and things like this. But in reality if you just can find somebody, even if it's your significant other or somebody just to listen for you to be able to kind of work things out and just communicate with, talk to it does get easier and as long as you have boundaries, you can have relationships with other people too. Like your mother in laws or your father and odds or even your dad. Like I have a pretty open relationship with my dad and I had to have a pretty open relationship with him since I was 15 and you know, going through my um, body changing phase that I had to Oh yeah, my dad four. So if you are, I don't know, just find somebody that you can talk to and don't keep it to yourself cause it just bites you in the
Kat: 46:31 Yup. Okay. I was so glad. I believe that's not hammered into somebody's head after this episode. They'll just keep listening to it, keep listening to it because it literally just cannot say it enough. It's so, so, so important. Well. Thank you so much for being on the show. This was so much fun.
Sharnelle: 46:48 Yeah. Great. Thanks for having me.
Voiceover: 46:51 Hey friend, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Before you go, I have four favors to ask you. First, I wanted to let you know that I host a group for women where we share our day to day stories, challenges, and victories. If you want to come along for the ride, head to Facebook and search for the life after losing mom community. Second, if you don't mind leaving me a review and telling me how I've helped you in your grief journey, I would greatly appreciate it. Third, had to cap on our.com forward slash podcast to access previous episodes and subscribe for episodes in the future. Finally had to cap on our.com to schedule complimentary connection call with me. I'd love to know more about your grief journey. Always remember that despite losing our mothers, we have a flourishing futures
Speaker 7: 47:43 [inaudible].
Voiceover: 47:43 This has been an OutsourceYourPodcast.com production.

Life After Losing Mom

enJuly 17, 2019

Finding Your Value After Losing Your Mom With Bella Norton

Welcome to Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. In this episode, we’re joined by Bella Norton. Bella lost her mom to what she thought was an accidental drug overdose when she was 16 years old, but it wasn’t until six months later when she came to grips with the fact that it was actually a suicide, that her grieving process truly began. Bella opens up about her struggle to find value after her mom passed away and how she’s learned to manage those feelings and find ways to move forward in her life.

What To Listen For

Bella’s experience with coming to grips with the fact that her mom meant to overdose.
How Bella struggled with anger towards her mom for taking her own life.
Bella’s realization that even though it’s been nine years since her mother passed away, she still needs help managing her grief.
How Bella is overcoming the feeling of not thinking she’s strong enough.
How grief can make it hard to connect with other women and what to do about it.
Bella’s experience of finding a best friend that has similar experiences as her.
How having a best friend can increase the value you place on yourself.
Dealing with having a real depressive episode after the loss of your mom.
Bella’s realization that therapy is a powerful tool for coping with loss and that it shouldn’t be put off.
How Bella has learned to put herself first and value herself.
Bella and Kat’s thoughts on mental illness and it’s role in their mother’s deaths.
The importance of joining support groups of like-minded women.
How other’s actions impact our lives.
How to deal with feeling ashamed of other’s addictions.
How friends can let you down in your time of really needing support.

Bella shares her story that everyone deserves to feel valued and loved and that grieving doesn’t need to equate to feeling less than. She’s found that connecting with real friends and support groups is key to managing her grief. Bella’s belief is that you are worth everything in this world. Your mom would not want you to look at yourself as a burden. Your mom would not want you to look at yourself like you're unworthy because you are. She brought you into this world and she loved you.

Resources From This Episode:

This is where you put the list of the guest links and links to any other resources (books, websites, etc.) mentioned on the show. They need to be in this exact formatting *note that there is no space between the ] and the (

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Transcript
In 2013 Kat Bonner lost her mom in a tragic car accident. She figured out how to manage her grief and is helping other women do the same. On this podcast, you'll hear from other women who have lost their moms and discover the exact coping strategies you need to get through the day and be in the best place you've ever been. Don't miss another episode. Subscribe today. More information can be found KatBonner.com/podcast and if you'd like to join a group of like-minded women head to Facebook and search for the Life After Losing Mom community. Lastly, if you're looking for help managing your grief book a complimentary connection call at KatBonner.com.

So before we get started with the episode, I just want to share something with you. I'm sure you've heard multiple times that grief is an individual process. Well, the people you heard this from aren't wrong because it very much so is you're probably wondering how can someone help me when they grieve differently than I do? That's why I'm so passionate about one on one coaching that is totally customized to you and your pain points. I let you guide me two ways. I can help you. I can, I'll, I take on three clients at a time. So the spots are limited. I'd love for you to tell me how I can help you in your grief journey.

[inaudible]

welcome to the show, Bella.

Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Um, so I just like to start off every episode with each woman sharing what they want to about the loss of their mom.

Okay. Um, so, um, well I'll start a little bit before the loss of my mom because it kind of all builds up, uh, to losing her. Um, so I basically knew that a, a pretty young age that, you know, my mom had issues, um, you know, some, some mental illnesses and um, she also struggled with an alcohol addiction off and on and opiate addiction off and on. Um, so from the age of probably, you know, five or six, I, I was kind of treated as an adult. Um, and knowing everything that was going on with her. Um, I remember going to, you know, the hospital multiple times, a young age, seeing her on holidays, you know, and she had attempted suicide at that point. Um, so, you know, all of my life I was, you know, Kinda treated as a parent of my own parents.

Um, so leading up to it, you know, I, uh, she could be completely normal at times. She could be, you know, my best friend at times we'd have fun together. We sang, we danced, we did a lot of things together. Um, she really in me, um, and, and basically, you know, gave me my sense of self worth. Um, so even knowing all the issues she had, I still believed her. You know, when she told me like, you're, you're worth it. You know, you're smart, you're talented, you're pretty. Um, but you know, when I was 16 years old, things kind of started really going downhill with her. Um, I would come home from school some days and she would just be locked in her bedroom. Other days I'd come home and, you know, she'd be outside grilling hotdogs on the grill, wanting to hang out and have fun.

Um, but it was about a week after spring break. Um, I came home, uh, I was getting ready to go hang out with my boyfriend at the time. Um, and I was getting ready, not care in the world. You know, I was 16 years old. I was, I was going to go have some fun. Um, and my younger brother, who is 13, about to be 14, um, at the time, uh, came to me while I was getting ready and said, I think something's wrong with mom. Um, so I went in and I checked on her, um, and she was laying on her bed, completely incapacitated. Um, and at this point I was like, well, she took too many pills. She'll be fine. I, you know, I'd seen it happen before and I didn't really think anything of it. Um, so I, I told my brother, it would be fine, just, just give a little bit of time.

So maybe 15, 20 minutes later he comes back in, he's super upset. Um, and he says to me, there's something really wrong. Um, so I went back to her brain and at this point, um, it was, it was pretty evident that something was very wrong. Um, you know, so I called nine one one, they got on the phone, they were like, can anybody do CPR? And at the time I was, I was freaking out. Um, and so my brother did it. Um, it, it, it did not work. Um, they, they got her out, they got a pulse back in the ambulance. Um, and, uh, the next morning I didn't get to the hospital because I, you know, I, I, I really didn't want to see you that way. Um, then I stayed with some relatives in a hotel that night that it came out from my dad's side of the family.

Um, and in the morning I called my Nana. That was my mom's mom. Um, and I asked what was going on and they said they had taken her off life support at about one 30 that morning, um, and thought it wouldn't be long. So, uh, I asked my Nana if she could put the phone up to my mom so I could tell her goodbye. Um, and I said, I love you mom. And then about 10 seconds later I heard it flat line. Um, so part of me was like, you know, she waited for me to say goodbye and the other part of me was just completely destroyed. Um, and so for about six months, everyone told me that it was an accidental overdose. Um, we'll come to find out. One day I was with my Nana and she said, you know, do you think your mom meant to do that? And I was like, in my heart, I know she did. Um, and she said, well, you're right and you have a letter. Um, say, you know, I got my letter from my Stepdad at the time. And, um, it, it was like starting the grieving process all over again because I had convinced myself she didn't mean to do it. Um, but she did. Um, and in her letter she made that very clear. Um, so that's, you know, a little bit about, you know, what happened and how it happened. Uh, yeah. It's, uh, it's been tough.

Bless your heart. Well, thank you for sharing. Um, yeah, it's so funny that you mentioned not like funny, but like ha ha, ironic, funny. Yeah. Ah, yeah. You're actually the first guest that I've had on the show whose mom died of like an overdose. Like it's been like, you know, just natural causes or like cancer, something that, which those still suck. Um, yeah, but it's interesting cause I think society in general just does not take addiction seriously and they don't think that it is a disease. And it very much so is, uh, my mom was an alcoholic, so I mean, essentially addiction led to, you know, our mom's demise. Um, but it's so interesting too, and it's hard. At least it was for me in my ad. I'm assuming, you know, it would be for you too. It's like, you know, you can't blame them for getting addicted, but it's like their actions and their decisions led to their addiction. So it's like, okay, you're caught between a rock and a hard place. Am I just speaking out loud or different the same way?

Oh, I definitely feel the same way in too. You know, my mom's dad committed suicide when she was seven years old. So for me it was like, you knew how this would affect me or might affect me and my brother and you know, you still took those steps to do the same thing. Um, which has been very hard for me to get over because it's, you know, it's something that I'd like to say now, you know, I don't have kids, but if I did that, I would never do that to them. And there's been a lot of anger, you know, but I at the same time, it's like I understand as I get older and her struggles, her addiction, you know, her mental illness, she, she cannot help that. So

No. Yeah, that definitely, yeah. I definitely can understand where you're coming from. I guess the way that I'm like thinking of it is like, okay, you know, my mom didn't think that in me and my brother were worthy enough to like basically be a parent too. So she decided to enter role as basically being a parent once again. Am I crazy or that thought ever run through your mind?

Oh, it runs through my mind all the time. Um, you know, because we, we depended on her, you know, we had, we had that mother daughter relationship, but at the same time it was so much more than that. You know, I, I, I felt like, you know, why couldn't you talk to me? Why couldn't you tell me this is how you were feeling? And then I look back and you know, she did just without the words and I was so young that it's, you know, as I've grown up and grown older, I realized I can't lie myself. And at the same time, you know, as much as I, I don't want to blame her, that was hard decision and you know, that was her decisions that led her there. Um, and so, you know, at first and you know, it's been a little over nine years now and it's taken me this long to figure out, you know, I need help coping with this. Um, you know, it really did make me feel like I was not worthy of love from anybody. You know, if your own mother can make a decision to leave your life permanently, then why, why am I deserving of any type of love?

Yeah. It's, yeah, that's definitely a big thing I noticed that comes with grief. The first word that's going through my mind right now is blame. And I'm so glad that you mentioned that because I feel like, like when you know, you experienced a loss, this tragic and just grieving in general, the first thing you want to do is blame somebody. And it's like, okay, like you either blame the person that you've lost or you blame yourself and then, and I'll actuality, it's like, okay, like playing the blame game does what I'm once, he probably does nothing, but it's like almost second nature. At least for me, it was in the beginning stages and then it's like, okay, like I'm a firm believer in like actions speak louder than words. So yeah. Like, you know, your mom loved you, but her action by taking her own life, like basically it's like, you know, you're not my mom anymore. Like you're not here to physically be my mom. So that actions spoke louder than any word that

exactly.

You know. And I think people don't really realize how their actions are going to affect other people and it sucks.

Yup. I, so in, in her letter to me, you know, she, she read it the day before. She actually, um, you know, made the decision. I mean, she had made the decision there, but she read it the day before she actually committed suicide, um, on Anna, she said, don't let this destroy you. And it's like, what else is supposed to do? You know, like this isn't something that's, that's, this isn't a good thing. This isn't anything that's beneficial to me. Um, I needed you and no matter what state of mind you're, I needed you. Um, so it, it was, it was very confusing for me for a very long time and still is honestly, because, you know, as a parent, that is your job is to be there for your children. And um, you know, she wasn't and she's not. Um, so yeah, that's been very difficult for me, you know, overcoming that feeling of like, okay, you think I'm strong enough for something like this to not destroy me.

It's like I'm strong, but that's not the point. It's not if you loved me enough, this one happened. So why, you know, and it sucks too. Cause it's like, you know, once again we're quick to say that we weren't in her shoes, but at the end of the day that's not like, and I'm not just, I don't have experience of suicide so I can't say that. But like I'm a firm believer in suicide's not the answer. Like, and I know how addiction works. I know that like they don't think they have a problem. But addiction in itself is almost like, and this is, forgive me if this is like wrong, but like say for instance for like, you know, my mom was an alcoholic, she was drinking and driving, which led to her dying in a car accident. But like, and I'm not saying it's suicidal because she wasn't consciously like making the decision to wreck the car, but in a way I think that addiction almost manipulates your brain to think that way. Like, eventually addiction is going to take your own life.

Oh yeah. No matter if you mean to or not. You know, addiction is an, and there's such a stigma with it, that and suicide that it is not talked about in a very, in a very beneficial way to anybody. Um, just people are ashamed of that and then those left behind, you're ashamed of, of that as well. So it's just one of those things that you, you're never really going to get a handle on it if there is such a bad stigma with it, you know, it's

the only way to get rid of the stigma unfortunately. They'll talk about it. Yeah. And then a lot of times those people don't want to do that. Yeah. Which I mean, that's fine I guess to each their own. But yeah. I how did you, like, did you feel like, you know, your value was effected a lot more in like your relationships, like your friends, like other women because your mom was a woman or was it just in general? I'm kind of curious about that.

So, you know, growing up I was a super happy go lucky kid. I have a lots of friends. Um, but once that happened and I wrote my, my best friend at the time, we, um, she was the one that I call my auntie. Um, and, and we ended up having a falling out and that really, really hurt me. And I don't know if it was me or if it was her, but it was best of. But since then I found it extremely hard to connect to other women, especially, um, you know, and I, I didn't really feel like anybody who likes me because I felt like I had this, this stamp on my forehead that said I'm damaged, you know,

God precheck girl.

Yeah. And it was just really hard to make friends or to open up to people. And then two in my relationships, you know, with men, um, at first after app, and I was, ah, that was where I wanted to find my value. And looking back now, it definitely was not the answer. Uh, but that was why I place my value was like, you know, if these men want me, then that makes me lovable. Um, and it definitely wasn't healthy at the time, you know, at all. For me tried to cope with that, but it was, it was the only thing I needed.

Oh yeah. I mean the American dream, right? Everybody's like, okay, like let me just turn to a significant other or somebody that I'm attracted to and try to use them to fill that void. Um, and it's like, even to like, even if you're the first one of your friend group that has like lost a mom, I feel like once you find, you know, other women that have lost a mom, you find other, other women pretty quickly, like you learn pretty quickly after, you know, the first one, hey, like I'm not alone, but like, yeah. And this is why I say I can't help men because I'm a firm believer that I literally can't, um, in the sense that like obviously obviously their brains are completely hard wired different than theirs are. But I noticed like, cause I was 18 so we were very similar ages when we lost her.

Mom's like, you know, the teenage, I guess adolescent years don't even know what they were described as. Um, but yeah, like going up and like growing through college and like, oh, like you don't want to date a girl who's lost her mom. Like, I'm going, I guess that's a whole other like topic. But yeah, like we're hell at, first of all, we're hell are worthy of being valued. So anybody who doesn't value you can fuck off because they're idiots and agreed 100%. It's like, okay, yeah, you know that now. But like, you know, you wish you would've known that x amount of years later and it would've made, you know, the last nine years, not hellish.

Yeah. But yeah.

You know, that's how grief works. It's like, but the time when you reach that like pivotal moment, you're like, well, I guess better late than never.

Yeah. Can't turn back time. You know, it's, uh, it's definitely been a journey for me. Um, and, and you know, like you said, about finding other women and, you know, once you find one that, you know, has lost their mom, and for me, you know, I went without having what some would call a best friend. I always said I had acquaintances, I didn't have friends. Um, I met my best friend, her name's Chloe. She's awesome. Um, she lost her mom at 16 as well, um, to an opiate overdose. Um, so once I met her and we establish that connection, there was no going back, you know, and just having her there for me has made a huge difference in how I value myself and you know, my self worth because I, you know, you know that you're not alone and then other people have felt what you're feeling.

Yeah. I was literally about to ask like, how you kind of got over that Hump and like realized, you know, I am worthy and I was like, as I talk to more people, I feel like some like things in grief are very much so, like you have an epiphany and you're like, oh my God, this is how I'm going to heal from this specific struggle. And then other times it's a lot more gradual over time. And then you realize years later that you made, appealed like a long time ago. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. You know, um, for me it was for so long, I just, I thought there was something wrong with me and so I just ignored all of the feelings that are so I just pushed him aside and was like, you just gotta get through your day. Just go to work, you know, go to sleep, do it all again tomorrow. There's, you know, you just gotta do what you gotta do. Um, and until I actually was probably when I met her, you know, about two and a half years ago now that it, things really started looking up for me cause I did not feel so alone. You know, I felt like this person has been through something so similar as me and she's lovable, you know, she's worthy. The why, why would I feel like I'm not?

Yeah, it's so interesting. Obviously the whole like process of grief honestly fascinates me. But it's so like weird how your like just feeling comforted, not like by somebody actually comforting you, but like literally having a woman in her life that has lost her mom. I'm like, not just like via like social media. Like, that's great, but like, actually physically having that person in your life, you're like, Holy Shit. Like, you know, like, yeah, you get through this together. And it just is literally like, yeah. And sometimes people get that I think too late. And it's also important to define somebody who's open about it because other people like, you know, I know women who've lost a mom and they don't ever talk about it. And that wasn't really helpful for me. Like I know it's going to sound really selfish, but I mean, if it takes two people to tango, you know, like, yeah. Is your friend like that? Like, can you attest to that or?

Oh, definitely. I mean, you know, for, I've always been a very open person in general. I'm super and yeah, I let myself feel the things now that I'm feeling in the moment. Um, but for awhile it was something that I just ignored, you know, I, it, and I'm really didn't meet anybody who had been through what I'd been through, um, for a very long time. So I really did feel like, you know, you just don't talk about it. It makes people uncomfortable, but at the same time, you know, who cares if you make people uncomfortable because we're the only one that are living in our, our reality in our life. And you know, you've gotta do what you need to do for yourself to heal. So

lol. I literally love you. I have some, I have some were the only ones, I think I was in high school still. I lost my mom. So like two months for a graduate of high school. Um, so most of the people like basically, you know, acts like they're there for you and then they're not. And I remember this one girl, we were really best friend throughout high school and then we like stopped talking and she told me one day she was like, you know, be around you when you get really sad or really emotional. Makes me uncomfortable. And I'm like, you gotta be my bro. Oh my God. Like I literally don't have anything to say to that. And I think now she probably realize, hey, I kinda fucked up. Well yeah, no shit you fucked up. But like, I just, and I know like, but you were just bringing that up and you were like making people uncomfortable that like, you've been through a lot. And I'm like, you know what, think about how uncomfortable I am.

Exactly.

Like you think this is hard for you. You think it's hard for you? Oh Huh. Let's back up. Yeah, I could go on a tangent. All hold it. That's so funny. Um, so were there like, you know, once you got to the realization, hey, like I am valued like by myself and by other people. Were there any huge changes that like you saw in your life or anything that was like more positive and different?

So, yes. Um, for awhile, you know, I, I was an athlete. I was, I love to write poetry, I love to sing. And then, you know, once, once mom passed, it was just like, all of those things just slowly, I just stopped. I stopped. Um, and because I felt like I wasn't good at it, I felt like no one wanted to hear me saying no one wanted to read my poetry, you know, blah, blah, blah. But it took, honestly, I want to be real up front and honest here. I had a mental, like a complete mental breakdown, depressive episode type of thing a few months ago. Um, and it really took that to get me to realize, you know, you got to help yourself. Um, and, and the best thing for me has been therapy. Um, it's something that I put off for far too long. You know, I did it here and there after mom passed that I was just, I wasn't, I wasn't ready I guess at that point.

Um, I wasn't ready to be unapologetically honest with myself and especially with anybody else. Um, until that happened to me. And my boyfriend actually was like, Bella, I love you. I want to be with you, but I'm worried about you and you have got to do something. Um, so that, that point, you know, the next day I started calling people, I started calling psychologists. I started, you know, really digging deep into myself and saying things have got change. Um, and so now, you know, I've started, I've started working out, which is something I did not do for years upon years upon years. Um, and it feels right, like just getting, getting myself going, getting myself moving again. It's, it's such a sense of accomplishment, you know, after I run my mile and after I, you know, drop my mile time and have, it's, it's awesome. Um, I'm still working on, you know, the writing part, um, just little post on Facebook here and there, just getting things off of my chest and you know, out of my mind and it feels great to just be open.

Um, and one of the things I've always wanted to do is I've always been a person who goes out of my way for people who probably don't deserve it. And I think a lot of that comes from what I went through with my mom. You know, I, I want to help people and sometimes people that don't deserve it, but you know, so for me, being able to tell my story and be open to be honest about it has been one of the best healing, you know, processes for me. Um, and it may not be like that for everybody, but, um, I'm no longer ashamed of what I went through. I'm no longer ashamed of the choices that I made, you know, a few years ago and even up until recently that weren't necessarily good. But it's, it's to be talked about, it's gotta be, it's gotta be out there because someone needs to hear it. So

yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And I definitely think that everybody needs to talk about it. Everybody needs to share their story. It might not, it might take some people longer to realize that than others. But honest to God, the only way that you are going to heal is like sharing your story. And this sounds really crazy, but you know, I posted and like some of the Facebook groups like, hey, if anyone wants to share their story on a podcast, let me know. And I literally had, um, it was uh, another group that I'm in, I like posted the same thing and somebody commented back, they were like, why would we want to talk about all the shit that we've been through? And it just broke my heart to realize that like there are women out there who think that sharing their story will help other people, but they're so wrong because it will.

Yeah. And I think that's why like creating space is so important. Like, I mean, yeah, people can share their stories on the Facebook groups, which is great. Like I'm not discouraging that at all. But there's something about like saying it like even if you say it out loud to the wall, even if you tell your fricking cat like whatever, there's literally something, and I can't describe it, but like actually like physically sharing your story out loud rather than typing it on paper. It's like, and then you find that one person and they're like, wow, you telling me your story changed my life? Like when you get that, like it makes all the shit that you've been through worth it because yeah, you know, it's like, you know, you can make a difference in one person's life. Like they literally might not ever have. And that's what I said, like to the reply, I was like, you know, like I provide this like space where people can share their story and help other people.

Like think about it, this group has 400 members, which is like a great amount, but think about how many people or how many women there are out there in this world who could be listening to this podcast or who could be literally looking for something specific that might not be in that Facebook group. You know? Exactly like you sharing your story in the Facebook group, it's not a problem. But like when you have a platform that can reach millions and millions of people, it's like, oh, Mike, I, and I didn't know. Like, I knew I was not alone, but when I started this, everyone's like, oh, like your niche is too specific, like Lumen, you've lost a mom. Like I did not realize because I was debating between women who've just lost a mom and women that have lost a parent because that's still, I do think, you know that I can also help women that have lost a parent. But I was like, that's just where my heart is. It's just women losing a mom because I can 100% attest to that. But I was like, Holy Shit, there's a lot of people out there that have lost a mom. Like

so many people.

It's crazy. It's literally crazy. Like I don't know how to wrap my mind about it. And when you hear so many like stories from other people, like I hear your story and I'm like, oh my God. Like I'm automatically like, I love you. Like I just want to hug you. Like you're my sister. You know? And I know that sounds super cheesy and Cliche, but like do you, once again, I'm asking you, Hey, do you feel that way? But yeah, like what are your thoughts?

I do feel that way. I mean, like I said before, when you're going through something and you feel so alone, you're really just looking for someone to understand you. And it's really hard when you feel like nobody does. Nobody can. And, and so, you know, I'm in a lot of support groups on Facebook, whether it be mother was daughters, whether it be, you know, survivors, suicide loss, you know, and in a lot of those groups, and I read these people's stories and they feel the same way that we do. You know, they just want to, to have someone understand them, they want companionship. They just, they want to know that they're not alone. And the only way that people are going to know that they're not alone, as if people talk about those things. If, if people reach out, if you know, it's, it's a hard thing to talk about.

Of course. You don't just want to be like, hey, I lost my mom. You know, let's talk about it. But when you, when you feel like you're in a sisterhood of women that have gone through the same thing, because losing a mother, especially at a younger age and at a pivotal age, you know, like, like we were, that you just feel so lost. You feel, you feel like, you know, no one's gonna understand you because you have all these complex feelings. Um, and you can't just let that sit in your brain. You can't just let it eat you up alive or outs. You know, you're, you're not going to be the person that you're supposed to be.

Yeah, I know. You're very right. I mean, if you think about that, like average person, like I know people who are my age who has every set of grandparents still alive, and I'm like, holy bowls, like holy shit, that like literally completely blows my mind. So, and it's, I mean, I'm not saying I love to talk about death, but like death is a part of life. And I think too, like when you realize that, um, you know, you find these group of people, like I never really understood, I guess the importance of like the support groups because I realized very quickly like I found those people in my life that I could relate to. Um, so I was like, oh, like why don't these people just, you know, go talk to someone they can relate to. But I guess it's like, it's always, once you think about it, it's always nice to have different opinions, which is why you have all these people. Like I noticed a lot of times when I needed something, I would go to the same person and that wasn't bad. But now looking back on it, it's like, wow, I wish I had gone to like other women that also lost their mom. So I could have talked to them about how they handled this rather than, I mean, any guidance is better than none, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. But it's always good to have, you know, you want to see other people's stories because people deal with things so differently. You know, like my brother for instance, you know, he was super close to my mom and he's, I look up to him even though he's my younger brother, you know, I didn't go to college. My mom pushed college on me and after she passed I was like, I can't go to college, you know? But my brother, he is college to college. He's gonna graduate in December. He's so and so just resilient, you know? But he will not open up to anybody and it breaks my heart, you know, it breaks my heart because I wonder, what is this poor kid going through? What is he feeling? You know, I just,

okay,

we're total opposites. You know,

it's a man. Yeah. He is a man. He is different from the others. It was the same way. Like I found out from my mom's sister, she was like, oh yeah, like, did you know your brother went to therapy? I guess he went to therapy like once. But I think men get very, very angry or they just suppress their grief. And here I am, you know, making assumptions. But just from what I know about men, I'm like, okay, I can't, I mean, I can help people who, you know, suppress grief, but I think women are also just a little bit more like realistic and like rational sometimes. And men are just like, no, I'm not talking about it at all. And I'm like, all right dude, if you're not going to talk about it, like I throw my hands up like,

yeah. Like there's nothing more I can do. Like, do you let me know when you're ready?

Stop. Sorry, my dogs pissed me off. Um, yeah, no, that's exactly why. Like, and I'm not saying Oh, men are like that, but yeah, that's a whole new, I think that's why I struggled so much with like finding like men in my life who could date someone without a mom because they're like, what the heck? And that's, you know, a whole topic for another day. But it's just like the world needs to break the stigma. Like the world needs to talk about death and it needs to talk about grief because how is it ever going to get better? Like literally people like this sounds bad, but people die from losing people. Like because they don't ask about it and they're like, oh my God, this person died. My life is over. And I'm like, well hopes because you acted like death didn't exist. Like it's just, it's honestly really crazy.

It blows my mind and I think about it too. Like, I dunno, I just, and I try not to make assumptions, but I noticed a lot of times on the, I don't know, maybe there's just so many things that you know you need to find in yourself. Because at the end of the day, you are your biggest ally. You only have yourself like you. So like when you realize, hey, I am worth it. Like I am worth this. And then like, you're like, you know, I need to get my shit together. I need to put myself first, I need to focus on myself. And it pissed me off. And people were like, oh, you're being selfish. I'm like, first of all, you can go out whatever you want, but all you have is yourself, so fucking take care of yourself for God's sakes. That's not bad. It's, yeah,

it took me a long to realize that, you know,

from, you know, all the issues my mom had it. I had to think about her. You know, I wasn't thinking about myself. I was, I was thinking everything I did was to please her. Everything I did was to get her approval. Everything I did was to take care of her. So it was a struggle for me to feel like, Hey, I deserve to be taken care of. You know, I deserve, I deserve to be happy. I deserve to look out for myself. I deserve to do the things that I want to do. Because like you said, like this is my, and I deserve to be a little selfish sometimes because when it comes down to it, as you said, all you've got is yourself. You know, you can have relationships with people, but that's, that's not guaranteed. You know, they can leave you at any moment, but you're always, you're always going to be when yourself passing the care of yourself.

You're never going to leave yourself. And I think like once like it takes a really long time to reach that point and like not just in grief but in life in general. And then your third grief on top of it and you're like, oh well there's a double whammy. But yeah, once you reach that point in your grief, like literally that is the game changer. Like I deserve to be happy. And I always say in life everything is a decision. So it's like, okay like you are worthy. So you choose to make decisions that make you feel worthy. Like you know, like you, if you want to be happy then you need to choose to make decisions that will lead to your happiness. And then eventually it just becomes part of your lifestyle. And you don't have to like choose anymore. Don't get me wrong, you know, you'll have your days. But I think that's where like self reflection and just like consciousness comes in, you know? And it's not easy. People don't want to think about it. But did like, did that happen for you?

You know, um, like I said, it, it took like a literal mental breakdown after just holding everything in for me to say, you know what? Like, I have to stop being ashamed of these feelings, that spiel. I've stopped being ashamed of decisions I've made. I have to stop being ashamed of how I feel about myself. You know, I used to, I used to love myself and when mom left me, it just puts, it made me question everything. Um, um, and so, you know, I, um, I was recently diagnosed bipolar and this came after, you know, my mental breakdown. Um, and I was super ashamed of that because my mom was bipolar and the last thing I wanted in my life, it was to hear, hey, so are you. Um, but I'm so, so, so proud of myself for finally putting my needs first and saying, you know what? I do have these issues and I do need to take care of it if I want to live reply that you know, I deserve and everyone deserves happiness. And it's hard when you go through something like we've been through to, to value yourself when you know, you feel like your own mom didn't even value you to a degree. Um, so yeah, it's definitely,

it's, yeah, it's a very tricky thing to manage and to understand. Then there's some things, you know, you just won't understand, but like, especially after this conversation, if there's one thing I realize like don't be ashamed of anything like it. Like you're enough, like you are more than enough. Like there's no, you know, and I think it's just because society is so quick to give grief negative stigmas. But like one of my friends told me a quote once a grief is the price that we pay for love. And when I think about it, it is so true. It's like, you know, like yeah, like you would rather have your mom, but like you loved your mom so much for cardless of any decision anybody makes. And I think too, like literally any decision, I say any decision that I made like four years of being in college at losing my mom just completely ignore them because they were probably the worst decisions I've ever made in my life.

Girl, yes, I feel you on that.

But yeah, people are just so, some people don't care, you know that which you know is fine. But yeah, like you know, you loved your mom so much that you are grieving her and not very many people in the world get to say that. And that's something, that's something to be proud of. Like fuck yeah, me and my mom had this good a relationship. Like it hurts so much when she's gone, but it's like I have the best mom ever. You know, like

yeah. Even with all her issues, I felt that way, you know, it was like, you know her dark side. Yeah.

I mean this literally like I'm going to love you through it, like through thick and thin no matter what. Because actions and decisions don't make people, the people that they are, you need to look like you know their heart. And that's what's important. Um, so I think that's a really great place to close. Um, Lynn and on a happy note, right? I always try to do that. Um, is there anything else that you want to leave the listeners about your stories just about grief or mother loss in general?

Um, you know, it feels like a downward spiral. It feels like you're just, I use this analogy a lot and I've used it a lot of times when I just steal, completely lost his, I feel alive. I am, I'm drowning and I'm in the ocean and there are boats going by and people are just looking at me wondering what is she doing? And no one will throw me a lifesaver. But at the end of the day, you're the only one that you can depend on to save yourself. You are literally the only one and you are worth it. You are worth everything in this world. Um, and it may feel like you're not after, you know, losing someone so special to you, like your mother, but your mom would not, you know, anybody listening this Austin mom in any type of way. Um, you know, your mom would not want you to look at yourself like a burden. Your mom would not want you to look at yourself like you're unworthy because you are. She brought you into this world and she loved you. So remember that, you know, remember that.

Oh my God, I love that. Yep. Okay. I'm just going to let that sit and resonate already for a little bit. Um, yeah. Well, oh my God, I am so thankful for you in new your vulnerability. I know it's not easy to come up here and show your story, but it resonated with me and I know it's going to resonate with so many people. So I think you, yeah,

think me. It was awesome. I felt like a weight lifted off my shoulders even more.

Yes. That's what I love. People sharing their story and like, yes, you get to help people and you get to help yourself. Hey friend, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Before you go, I have four favors to ask you. First, I wanted to let you know that I host a group for women where we share our day to day stories, challenges, and victories. If you want to come along for the ride, head to Facebook and search for the life after losing mom community. Second, if you don't mind leaving me a review and telling me how I've helped you in your grief journey, I would greatly appreciate it. Third, had to cap on our.com forward slash podcast to access previous episodes and subscribe for episodes in the future. Finally had to cap on or.com to schedule a complimentary connection call with me. I'd love to know more about your grief journey. Always remember that despite losing our mothers, we have a flourishing futures

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Life After Losing Mom

enJuly 10, 2019

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