Inquisition: Ricky Allen & Zac Poppen

Recently, the Somali-born ex-Muslim Ayaan Hirsi Ali announced that, in a seeming departure from her apostate atheism, she had decided to convert to Christianity. This prompted long-time Apologia participant J. Daniel Sawyer to include some analysis of Ali's about-face and place it in context with the long historical view he is developing at his substack, "Unfolding the World." The result of this was a long-delayed conversation between Dan and Zach focused on how this phenomenon manifested in the (admittedly, WEIRD) atheist community over the past decade.

Ryan Sanders is a writer and pastor at Irving Bible Church in the Dallas–Fort Worth metroplex where he focuses on building community. His most recent book is “Unbelievable: Examining the Unlikely Beauty Of the Christian Story,” an honest examination of Christianity in the 21st century. Rather than approach his faith with the argumentative vigor typically employed by apologists, Ryan seeks to look at the Christian religion both from the outside and the inside, while acknowledging the incredible power and meaning that it has provided to him and other believers throughout the centuries. In this discussion, Ryan and I talk about the difficulties in looking into and outside of the Christian bubble, and how our children’s generation is likely to be impacted by our current faith landscape.

Gilbert Keith Chesterton was a literary figure and theological influence on many British Christians in the 19th and early 20th centuries, as well as a figure of continuing influence in the 21st century evangelical Christian Church. Although I’ve read Chesterton’s “Orthodoxy” in the past both as a Christian and as an apostate, I wanted to sit down and chat about him with a true fan, previous interview subject Rebekah Valerius. Rebekah is a figure with her own growing influence in the Christian apologetics community, co-hosting an apologetics podcast as well as posting regularly at her blog, “Along the Beam.” During this discussion, we talk about the influence that Chesterton had on the modern Church, as well as where we both might find some helpful insights from the man George Bernard Shaw once called, “a man of colossal genius.”

Lee Valerius is a lay Christian and ardent supporter of the Dallas/Fort Worth apologetics community. In this discussion, we talk about Nikos Kazantzakis’ book, “The Last Temptation of Christ,” and the challenges that it presents to orthodox Christians. From what I’ve come to understand and appreciate about Lee, I was eager to find out what he might think about such a controversial book. Listen along as we chat about the nature of Christ and the ways in which this is interpreted by the author of “The Last Temptation of Christ.”

Alix Jules is an activist and writer in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, serving as President of the Board of Directors of the Fellowship of Freethought Dallas, President of Black Non-Believers of Dallas, as well as a national speaker on issues of intersectionality between race, religion, and gender. In this discussion, Alix and I talk about “The New Jim Crow” by Michelle Alexander, which methodically lays out the case that the kind of sub-caste intended by the architects of Jim Crow laws in the American South (carrying on the legacy of African slavery throughout the Americas) can be found today in the racial biases employed by law enforcement, political leaders, and public policy that brought about the War on Drugs as a proxy to target and diminish the cultural power of Black Americans.

Shunda Lee was raised in a family that instilled in her a strong sense of Christian identity and morality, though not specifically following any particular denomination. But upon reaching adulthood, Shunda sought to explore the Christian faith in depth, particularly as a result of her sister’s deep dive into fundamentalist Christianity. However, a combination of the limitations of Christian theology, as well as the close relationships that she developed with a variety of non-Christian women, eventually led Shunda down a path to apostasy. Now a practicing criminal defense attorney, Shunda and I discuss her unique perspective on the Christian Church in America, as well as the growing organized Humanist community in which she’s been occasionally involved.

Trey Grant is Lead Pastor and founder of The Well Church in Keller, Texas, an intentionally multi-racial congregation that seeks to build a diverse community that worships Jesus together as one. I first met Trey after one of his first Sunday morning services, held in a local theater and attended by a small but diverse coterie of Christians. I was immediately entranced by Trey’s vision of a new kind of church for a sleepy corner of Red State Texas, and have sought to encourage him in his efforts to the best of my ability. We’ve shared a few books between us, but Trey recently offered to loan me his copy of “Divided by Faith: Evangelical Religion and the Problem of Race in America,” by Christian Smith and Michael Emerson. Together, we discussed the troubling racialization of America, the evangelical Church, and our hope for a brighter, more collaborative future for our children.

Scriptorium is a new project I’m undertaking with Apologia, in which I’ll be seeking out interesting discussions about interesting books. These will typically have a theological or philosophical context, and I’ll be inviting people from both sides of the religious fence to participate with me. For the first in this series, I sat down with erstwhile Inquisition subject, Dan Ray, to talk about the historical novel “Silence” by Shūsaku Endō. “Silence” was recently adapted into a feature film by Martin Scorsese, and I found both the book and the film completely fascinating. The story involves two Portuguese Jesuit priests who journey to Edo Japan under threat of torture and death, seeking to support the persecuted Japanese Christians as well as to discover the truth about their reportedly apostatized mentor.

Dr. Martin Hughes was raised in a conservative Church of Christ family that embraced the fundamentalist Quiverfull movement, but though he aspired to be an apologist in the mold of C.S. Lewis, his study of literature left him on a path of apostasy. Now an atheist writer who manages the Barrierbreaker blog at patheos.com, Dr. Hughes is struggling to come to terms with a secular community that has disappointed him nearly as much as the Church. Though he has previously taken an aggressive anti-theistic approach with those who still defend Christianity, Dr. Hughes has now found some measure of peace with the role of the Church in America today.

Ricky Allen and Zac Poppen are two Christians who have become uncomfortable with the rigid requirements of the pervasive evangelical orthodoxy in America today. Though both revel in the study of theology and find spiritual discussions thrilling, they recognize that their beliefs place them firmly outside the boundaries set by the mainstream American Church. In an online exchange, Ricky and Zac semi-seriously suggested the establishment of a “Heretics Club” to serve the many believers who, like them, didn’t necessarily believe everything they’re supposed to.