MMT for Activism with Gabrielle Bond

As this episode goes to air, a brand-new documentary on Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) is touring Australia and PGAP has been given the incredible opportunity to speak to USA based director of "Finding the Money (https://findingmoneyfilm.com/)", Maren Poitras. Maren has just embarked on a screening tour of South East Australia alongside Stephanie Kelton, who is a leading proponent of the MMT movement and author of ‘The Deficit Myth’ (https://stephaniekelton.com/book/). (Australian Poster) During this revealing interview, Maren discusses the importance of MMT and the journey that making a feature length documentary on this important topic has taken her on. The conversation also explores why it is crucial that MMT goes hand in hand with post growth narratives and why it is important to combine the two in order to create an economic system that works within limits to growth. (Maren Poitras) ‘Finding The Money’ was filmed and produced in the USA with a focus around Stephanie Kelton’s advocacy in that country. However, Australia is the first country in the world to host screenings in advance of the documentary’s official release in the USA later this year. This is testament to the growing popularity of MMT in Australia and its many homegrown advocates of economic reform. These include institutions such as Modern Money Lab (https://pgap.fireside.fm/mmtlab) and Economic Reform Australia (https://pgap.fireside.fm/era) as well as author Steve Williams (https://pgap.fireside.fm/stevewilliams) - all have been previous guests on PGAP. You can find the dates of the Australian screening tour below and if you are in the right place at the right time, we strongly encourage that you go and see it. Not only is it a brilliant documentary but you will also have the opportunity to meet and greet Stephanie Kelton and Maren Poitras. CLICK HERE (https://modernmoneylab.org.au/events/film-tour/) to book your tickets. Post-Growth Australia Podcast is made with the kind support of Sustainable Population Australia (https://population.org.au/). We refer to SPA’s discussion paper in this interview: "Silver Tsunami or Silver Lining: Why We Should Not Fear an Ageing Population (https://population.org.au/discussion-papers/ageing/)". Any views, opinions or legacy of our guests do not necessarily reflect those of PGAP or SPA. Your PGAP co-hosts Michael Bayliss and Mark Allen are very pleased and humbled by the excellent response to the podcasts that we have made so far this year. We have had more listens than ever before, so a big thank you to our ever-growing community! We truly believe that "Finding the Money" and the conversations in this episode are very important and worth supporting, so we would be very grateful if you could share this episode within your networks. Also, please feel free to contact us (https://pgap.fireside.fm/contact) at any time with your feedback and thoughts. You can find out more about your hosts here (https://michaelbayliss.org/)and here (https://holisticactivism.net/). Special Guest: Maren Poitras.

For this episode of Post-Growth Australia Podcast, we go international by welcoming our esteemed guest Timothée Parrique, who is based in France and Sweden. Timothée is an economist at the School of Economics and Management of Lund University (Sweden). He has built a steady reputation as a colourful writer and speaker on the fallacies of our growth-based economy and is a loud and proud advocate of Degrowth, Post-Growth and Steady State based solutions. Topics discussed with Timothée in this episode include: Reflections on the Degrowth movement within Europe, with particular focus on the 2023 Beyond Growth conference held at the EU parliament. Why “green growth” and economic decoupling are fallacies that are not backed by scientific evidence. Why demography is not an economic problem and why tinkering with demography won’t provide economic solutions. Timothée’s personal vision for a post-growth world (involving much more social equity and much less advertising). We think you will agree that Timothée is a fantastic speaker on these issues, whose colourful use of metaphor and imagery makes for an engaging conversation. We encourage you to read his article: “A response to The Economist: Shut up and let me grow (https://timotheeparrique.com/a-response-to-the-economist-shut-up-and-let-me-grow/)”. This was an assertive response The Economist who wrote a critique of the 2023 Beyond Growth Conference (https://www.beyond-growth-2023.eu/), titled “Meet the lefty Europeans who want to deliberately shrink the economy (https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/05/18/meet-the-lefty-europeans-who-want-to-shrink-the-economy).” Indeed. There are many great YouTube videos highlighting Timothée’s impressive public speaking legacy. This Tedx Talk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfulzow1LGU&t=22s) (which has attracted nearly 130 000 views) is in French, but if you don’t speak the language, you have the option of English subtitles. We also recommend his talk at the Beyond Growth conference: “How to finance welfare without growth (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jpe4HVGJsI)?” He has also been interviewed on the Steady Stater Podcast. Otherwise, check out Timothée Parrique’s website here (https://timotheeparrique.com/). PGAP has been delighted and humbled by the fantastic listener support that we received for our last episode with First Nations cultural educator Larry Blight. (https://pgap.fireside.fm/larryblight) Thank you to everyone who took the time share your kind words with us. In keeping with Degrowth values, PGAP does not use advertising and so depends on a supportive and generous community to get the word out. Please help us spread the good word by sharing this and other episodes of PGAP with your friends, family and networks. We encourage you to review and rate PGAP on Apple Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/post-growth-australia-podcast/id1522194099) or your favourite platform. You are welcome to contact us anytime (https://pgap.fireside.fm/contact) with your thoughts, feedback and suggestions. All views and perspectives of PGAP guests, including all past or present legacies, remain independent of the perspectives and legacies of PGAP and Sustainable Population Australia (https://population.org.au/), who support this podcast. For a more in-depth look into some of the issues around discussing population, which were touched on during the outro of this episode, please read our blog post: “To populate or not to populate? How we can come together around the eternal debate of everyone’s favourite vexed issue (https://pgap.fireside.fm/articles/population).” Until next time, until then! Special Guest: Timothée Parrique.

Happy new 2024! For this very special episode of Post-Growth Australia Podcast, we interview Menang Noongar educator Larry Blight on site at the Yakamia forest, one of the few remnant pieces of bushland in Albany, which is currently under threat from overdevelopment (of course!) Larry discusses the environmental and cultural significance of the Yakamia forest. We then delve into a broader conversation across many issues such as overdevelopment, colonisation, the perils of neoliberalism and population policy. Larry incorporates his local knowledge and his connection to Boodja (Land) in what is a very deep and insightful conversation. From the Kirrah Mia (https://www.kurrahmia.com.au/about-us/) website: “Larry is a Menang Man, who is passionate about his Boodja (Land) and all things on it. Larry has extensive knowledge of local bushfoods, medicines, fauna, local stories and traditions. Larry has been passing on this knowledge through cross-cultural awareness workshops, Aboriginal tourism, school educational workshops and more.” This episode was recorded on site at the Yakamia forest with our trusty portable recorder. Being immersed within the bushland allowed for a more immersive conversation to unfold. However, it also happened to be a windy day with quite a bit of ambient sound, affecting the quality of the recording. We did our best to throw all the production tricks to sharpen the recording, and we would like to thank Andrew Skeoch and Crystal Marketing for their additional assistance. As with our previous episode at the NENA conference, (https://pgap.fireside.fm/nena2023) there is always a trade off with the intimacy of being 'live' with the unpredictable nature of sound recording, so we acknowledge the ‘rawness’ of this episode. To find out more about the Yakamia forest, you may be interested in our Season Four episode “A Tribute to Community Groups fighting Big Overdevelopment in WA” (https://pgap.fireside.fm/wacommunity) where we interview Annabel Paully from the Friends of Yakamia. For more First Nations’ perspective on Degrowth, you may be interested in Dr Mary Graham’s address in the episode, “PGAP live at the NENA conference: Life After Capitalism (https://pgap.fireside.fm/nena2023).” We also interviewed Prof. Anne Poelina in the Season Two episode: “Saving the Martuwarra-Fitzroy river (https://pgap.fireside.fm/martuwarra)”. This episode was recorded on traditional Menang Noongar country, on lands that were never ceded and we would like to offer our respect to elders past, present and emerging. We strongly encourage you to share this very important episode with your friends, family and networks and would love it if you could take the time to rate and review us on Apple Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/post-growth-australia-podcast/id1522194099) or your favourite podcast platform. Degrowth is about community and we encourage a community approach to the direction of future PGAP episodes! Contact us anytime (https://pgap.fireside.fm/contact) with your feedback, suggestions and ideas. PGAP is made possible by the kind support of Sustainable Population Australia (https://population.org.au/). SPA has been active in including many diverse perspectives on the sometimes-contentious issue of population, including those from the Global South, as well as first generation migrant and First Nation's perspectives. More information can be found on SPA's 'diversity and social inclusion (https://population.org.au/about-population/diversity-and-social-inclusion/)' page. If you would like to support SPA in saying 'NO to a big Australia' in 2024, please consider adding your signature to their position statement. More information about your co-hosts Michael Bayliss and Mark Allen can be viewed here (https://michaelbayliss.org/) and here (https://holisticactivism.net/). Special Guest: Larry Blight.

PGAP recently had the pleasure of travelling to Canberra to record live at the 2023 New Economy Network Australia (https://www.neweconomy.org.au/) (NENA) conference: ‘Life after Capitalism’. We recorded a collage of presentions and interviews with conferences attendees into order to showcase nearly two hours of Post-Growth goodness. This episode includes well-known names such as Tom Ballard, Donnie MacLurcan, Anitra Nelson and Gareth Hughes. (graphic courtesy of NENA) PGAP acknowledges the Ngunnawal, First Custodians of the country where the recordings of this conference took place. We pay respect to Elders past, present and emerging, and acknowledge that colonisation continues in the form of growth- based capitalism that privatises, pillages and pours concrete over lands that were never ceded. This is one aspect of an ongoing colonial mindset that pre-dates growth based capitalism. PGAP will never be corporatised, so it relies upon word of mouth to spread the post-growth message. So please, if you get the opportunity, share this and other episodes within your networks. You can rate and review us on Apple Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/post-growth-australia-podcast/id1522194099) or on your favourite podcast platform. You can also Contact us (https://pgap.fireside.fm/contact) with your feedback, thoughts, questions as well as ideas for future guests or episode topics. If you choose to subscribe (https://pgap.fireside.fm/subscribe), that helps us a lot and it means that we can better keep you in the loop. (PGAP making a presence at the NENA conference) This is an absolute epic of an episode! It was recorded live across meeting rooms, hallways, scout halls and outdoors, so the quality of the recordings are variable. We would like to thank Andrew Skeoch for his additional editing support for this episode. Attendees at the NENA conference. What a fantastic, game changing group of future leaders, thinkers and healers. Photo courtesy of Rod Taylor We present to you our esteemed presenters and interviewees, in order of appearance (with time stamp): Uncle Wally: ‘Welcome to Country’ ( 00:04:52 to 00: 13: 35) Dr Mary Graham (https://www.futuredreaming.org.au/about/governance/directors/mary-graham/), UQ and Kombu-merri person: ‘Indigenous perspectives and “Relationist Economics” (00: 13: 36 to 00: 25: 59) Tim Hollo (https://www.greeninstitute.org.au/about/tim-hollo-green-institute/), Executive Director of The Green Institute, ‘What’s wrong with capitalism anyway?’ (00: 27: 24 to 00: 34: 11) Gareth Hughes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gareth_Hughes_(politician)), Wellbeing Economy Alliance NZ: ‘Will “wellbeing economies” save us?’ (00: 34: 27 to 00: 42: 25) (For more on wellbeing economics, you may be interested in PGAP’s interview with Katherine Trebeck, (https://pgap.fireside.fm/arrival) who also spoke at the NENA conference) Janet Salisbury (https://womensclimatecongress.com/our-team), Women’s Climate Congress: Interview (00: 42: 41 to 00: 50: 51) Donnie MacLurcan (https://postgrowth.org/who-we-are/), Post-Growth Institute: “What might a degrowth and post-growth future look like?” ( 00: 52: 02 to 00: 57: 28) (PGI’s Robert Wanalo (https://pgap.fireside.fm/pgo)was interviewed by PGAP in season 1) Anitra Nelson (https://anitranelson.info/), Author of ‘Exploring Degrowth’: “What could our lives look like after capitalism?” ( 00: 57: 44 to 01: 02: 23) (Anitra was a past guest on PGAP (https://pgap.fireside.fm/degrowth) which can be listened to here) Anthony Gleeson, ‘The Sustainable Hour (https://podcast.climatesafety.info/)’ radio program: Interview ( 01: 02: 24 to 01: 08: 38) Tom Ballard (https://tomballard.com.au/), Comedian and author of ‘I Millennial (https://www.simonandschuster.com.au/books/I-Millennial/Tom-Ballard/9781761100635)’: Conference Dinner Speaker ( 01: 10: 58 to 01: 32: 34) Andrew Skeoch (https://listeningearth.com/andrewskeoch/), nature sound recordist at 'Listening Earth': Interview followed by session “Deep listening to nature reveals how life cooperates, rather than competes” (01: 34: 15 to end). PGAP would like to give a huge Huzzah to conference and NENA convenor Dr Michelle Maloney. She is so wonderful that she has been interviewed TWICE on PGAP for her work with NENA and AELA. Listen HERE (https://pgap.fireside.fm/4) and HERE (https://pgap.fireside.fm/greenprints). Do consider getting involved with NENA, and be part of the grassroots groundswell for systemic change. All opinions recorded at the conference, including any past or future work or legacies of speakers and interviewees, are exclusively theirs and do not always reflect the views of position of PGAP or SPA, (https://population.org.au/) who support this podcast. PGAP host Michael Bayliss also presented at the NENA conference, based on a report that he co-wrote for SPA on the housing crisis. (https://population.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/housing-crisis-and-population-briefing-note-final1.pdf) The work of Michael Bayliss can be explored at his website here (https://michaelbayliss.org/). Until next episode folks, until then....

On this episode of Post-Growth Australia Podcast, we are joined by Jon Doust - professional writer, speaker, comedian, performer, activist and trouble maker. Not only does Jon live in the same town as your PGAP hosts (Albany), he went to the same school as Michael. In this episode, we exchange notes on our formative years, which for Jon are documented in his trilogy of books ‘Boy on a Wire’, ‘Return Ticket’ and ‘To the Highlands.’ This provides a springboard for an in-depth discussion around the role that formative education plays in creating the psychologies of modern society and how addressing many of our existential crises requires some deep unlearning and relearning. This interview was recorded on the eve of Australia’s Voice Referendum, to which Jon worked tirelessly for the Yes campaign. Jon was also running for the Albany council elections as a progressive voice in a typically conservative part of the world. This lead to a sprawling discussion across many topics, issues and amusing anecdotes, where Jon’s mercurial skills as a storyteller truly came to the fore. Also evident throughout the interview is Jon’s love and dedication to the First Nations Noongar Menang community. Further, as fellow activists, we reflect on our losses and how moving ahead requires the art of learning how to be a better loser (and continue on anyway with even more dedication!) You can find out more about Jon at his Blog (http://jondoust.blogspot.com/)or at Fremantle Press. (https://fremantlepress.com.au/contributor/jon-doust/) Michael Bayliss was joined by co-host Mark Allen for the introduction and outro discussions to this episode, recorded after the results of the Voice referendum. As proud ‘Yes’ supporters, we reflected with sadness at the results. We observed the phenomena of people voting No as a ‘protest’ to the government and reached the conclusion that there are far better ways to ‘voice’ your protest against the government – punching downwards is not the solution. We were pleased to note that the Albany Council now has a progressive councillor following the election, so that is one silver lining. In the outro, we compare notes on our personal education experiences and how these have been an impediment with regards to gaining the wisdom (or even the practical skills) to deal with the multiple human induced crises that lie ahead. We make it very clear that we are knocking THE SYSTEM and the vested interests that lie behind the veil, NOT individual teachers, many of whom are heroes in our eyes and work uphill everyday against the crumbling system. You can find out more about your hosts Michael Bayliss (https://michaelbayliss.org/)and Mark Allen (https://michaelbayliss.org/). All the MANY opinions raised during this episode are individually held by your hosts and our esteemed guest Jon Doust and may not always reflect the opinions of our supporters (https://www.population.org.au/). Enough about us – what are your thoughts on all the above? Let them be known by contacting PGAP at our Contact Page (https://pgap.fireside.fm/). If you liked this episode (or even if you didn’t!) rate and review us on Apple Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/post-growth-australia-podcast/id1522194099) or your favourite platform. Share PGAP with your friends, family and networks and grow the post-growth conversation! This episode was recorded on the traditional lands of the Menang Noongar people that were never ceded. We continue to plunder, concrete and colonise their lands, without consultation, in the name of growth. We pay respect to all elders past, present and emerging and hope that we can learn from their wisdom in navigating the turbulent times ahead as we enter deeper intothe decade of consequence. Special Guest: Jon Doust.

We are certainly living in precarious times. We have transgressed six out of nine planetary boundaries (with more to come). The gap between the ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ is beginning to look less like a gap and more like a chasm. The threat of wide-scale war looms large. How do we get ourselves out of this mess before Mad Max becomes a documentary? Luckily for us, Mark Diesendorf and Rod Taylor have co-authored a new book “The Path to a Sustainable Civilisation: Technological, Socioeconomic and Political Change.” Not only does this book unpack several of the main existential challenges facing humanity, it details many proactive solutions that we can all undertake to create a better future. In this episode of Post-Growth Australia Podcast, Mark Diesendorf kindly steps into the microphone to summarise the key arguments detailed in “The Path of a Sustainable Civilisation.” Dr Mark Diesendorf is Honorary Associate Professor in the Environment & Society Group, School of Humanities & Languages at UNSW Sydney. He is also Senior Editor for Energy of the international journal Global Sustainability. Originally trained as a physicist, he became a Principal Research Scientist in CSIRO, and then broadened out into interdisciplinary energy and sustainability research. From 1996 to 2001 he was Professor of Environmental Science and Founding Director of the Institute for Sustainable Futures at University of Technology Sydney. PGAP listeners will be familiar with many of the challenges and solutions raised by Mark, in this interview, that are expanded on within the very concise and easy to read pages of “The Path to a Sustainable Civilisation (https://sustainablecivilisation.com/)”. These include the mechanisms of state capture and how they undermine democracy, the critical role that population sustainability contributes toward any planned Degrowth transition and how planned Degrowth may be facilitated with the sensible application of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). MMT is a favourite topic on PGAP and we highly recommend listening to our episode: “MMT for Activism with Gabrielle Bond (https://pgap.fireside.fm/mmtlab)”. You may also recognise Mark's co-author, Rod Taylor, who also contributed to the book “Sustainability and the New Economics” with Steve Williams, whom PGAP interviewed last yea (https://pgap.fireside.fm/stevewilliams)r. Rod Taylor was also interviewed on PGAP for his own book “10 Journeys on a Fragile Planet (https://pgap.fireside.fm/rodtaylor).” We are certainly well read on this podcast! PGAP is supported by Sustainable Population Australia (https://population.org.au/). All views and perspectives from our esteemed guests, including current and past legacies, are their own and do not always reflect the positions held by PGAP or SPA. Your PGAP co-hosts, Michael Bayliss (https://michaelbayliss.org/)and Mark Allen (https://holisticactivism.net/town-planning-rebellion-tpr/), have been very impressed by the amount of contact and feedback that we have been receiving from our listeners and supporters. Thank you so much! Let’s build this community. Rate and review this and other episodes of PGAP on Apple Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/post-growth-australia-podcast/id1522194099) or your favourite platform and feel free to share among your networks. Contact us (https://pgap.fireside.fm/contact) anytime with your feedback, thoughts and ideas. As Mark Diesendorf is a very industrious generator of wisdom, we are honoured to share a large collection of his work below, followed by the time stamp for this episode. Happy further reading! Mark’s website: https://research.unsw.edu.au/people/associate-professor-mark-diesendorf Mark’s Interview with The Sustainable Hour Podcast (https://climatesafety.info/climaterevolution5/). Mark and co-host Rod Taylor spoke at an online Australia Earth Law Alliance online event for Earth Laws month. The presentation may be seen at the AELA YouTube channel here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0yiZp5xDqw). Yin Paradies and John Seed, who also spoke during Earth Laws month, were discusssed during the introduction of this episode. These talks may be watched here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo4CXIboS1Q) and here (https://www.earthlaws.org.au/event/elm23-8sept-john-seed-patricia-fleming-the-work-that-reconnects/). Mark wrote for The Conversation: Saving humanity: here’s a radical approach to building a sustainable and just society (https://theconversation.com/saving-humanity-heres-a-radical-approach-to-building-a-sustainable-and-just-society-205566) New book: Mark Diesendorf & Rod Taylor (2023). The Path to a Sustainable Civilisation: Technological, Socioeconomic and Political Change. Palgrave Macmillan. eBook ISBN 978-981-99-0663-5; print ISBN 978-981-99-0662-8. See https://sustainablecivilisation.com/. Order from https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-981-99-0663-5 Latest papers Mark Diesendorf & Steven Hail (2022). Funding of the energy transition by monetary sovereign countries. Energies, volume 15, paper number 5908. https://doi.org/10.3390/en15165908 (Can be downloaded free of charge) Mark Diesendorf (2022). Scenarios for the rapid phase-out of fossil fuels in Australia in the absence of CO2 removal. Australasian Journal of Environmental Management https://doi.org/10.1080/14486563.2022.2108514 Mark Diesendorf (2022.) Scenarios for mitigating CO2 emissions from energy supply in the absence of CO2 removal. Climate Policy 22:882-896. https://doi.org/10.1080/14693062.2022.2061407 Mark Diesendorf, David Roser & Haydn Washington (2023). Analyzing the nuclear weapons proliferation risk posed by a mature fusion technology and economy. Energies 16:1123. https://doi.org/10.3390/en16031123 . Time Stamp 0:00:00 - 0:11:18 Introduction 0:11:19 - 1:08:02 Interview with Mark Diesendorf 1:08:03 - 1:16:23 Outro Special Guest: Dr Mark Diesendorf.

It is not every day that urban planning and societal collapse are discussed in the same conversation. But for Kate Booth – activist academic and Associate Professor at the University of Tasmania, both are critical and interlinked issues. In this very educational episode, Kate talks us through the Insurgent Planning movement as well as the Just Collapse movement. At a time when Australia’s Federal Government is scrambling to build 1.2 million new homes while the recent climate data suggests that an ecological collapse is imminent, these are difficult but necessary conversations that we need to be having. Kate Booth is Associate Professor of Human Geography, and activist academic, in the School of Geography, Planning and Spatial Sciences at the University of Tasmania. Her teaching and research addresses socio-ecological inequity in the context of rapid and unprecedented global change, and she leads a ‘Critical Collapse Studies’ research program underpinned by her expertise on insurance in a changing climate. She also teaches urban and regional planning. You can read more about Kate here. (https://discover.utas.edu.au/Kate.Booth) Just Collapse is an activist platform dedicated to socio-ecological justice in face of inevitable and irreversible global collapse. You can find out more about Just Collapse here (https://justcollapse.org/). You can also read more about insurgent planning here (https://justcollapse.org/2023/03/13/a-little-book-of-insurgent-planning/) or watch a video that Kate produced here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiIp2Sci3l8). An interview with Kate and Tristan Sykes is also available from Collapse Club on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i4g-d_bPw4&t=407s). Kate is a regular contributor on the Town Planning Rebellion (TPR) Facebook Group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/459336597565689), which is administered and moderated by your PGAP co-hosts, Mark Allen (https://holisticactivism.net/)and Michael Bayliss (https://michaelbayliss.org/). Liked this episode and want to hear more? In 2021, PGAP recorded three episodes on the road in Tasmania, with many special guests, which can be listened to here, (https://pgap.fireside.fm/tasperspect1) here (https://pgap.fireside.fm/mikestasse) and here (https://pgap.fireside.fm/tasperspect3). You may also like our episode on Retrosuburbia with David Holgren (https://pgap.fireside.fm/holmgren). Help the world to degrow by helping PGAP to grow! Share this episode with your family and friends and rate and review us on Apple Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/post-growth-australia-podcast/id1522194099). Contact us (https://pgap.fireside.fm/contact) with your feedback and suggestions for future topics or guests. PGAP is made possible through the kind support of Sustainable Population Australia (https://population.org.au/). The opinions of PGAP guests, including any legacies past or present, are exclusively theirs and do not always reflect the views of PGAP or SPA. Special Guest: Kate Booth.

Welcome to the season five premiere of Post-Growth Australia Podcast. What better way to launch our new season than with Rob Dietz, co-host of Crazy Town Podcast, (https://www.resilience.org/crazy-town-podcast/) perhaps the standard bearer of degrowth themed podcasts. (Rob Dietz). Rob is the Programs Director of Post Carbon Institute (https://www.postcarbon.org/) (PCI). A brilliant public speaker and story teller, Rob talks us through the journey of Crazy Town Podcast, which he co-hosts with colleagues Asher Miller (https://www.postcarbon.org/our-people/asher-miller/)and Jason Bradford (https://www.postcarbon.org/our-people/jason-bradford/). He also discusses the other initiatives and campaigns run by PCI, in addition to his unique vision of a Post-Growth future. (Crazy Town's Logo). We asked Rob to share two of his favourite Crazy Town Podcast Episodes that are linked below. We do warn you, that once you start listening to Crazy Town, you might not be able to stop! Episode 34. Fear of Death and Climate Denial, or… the Story of Wolverine and the Screaming Mole of Doom (https://www.resilience.org/stories/2021-03-25/fear-of-death-and-climate-denial-or-the-story-of-wolverine-and-the-screaming-mole-of-doom-episode-34-of-crazy-town/) Episode 60. Chillin' and Killin': How Air Conditioning Has Altered Human Behavior and the Environment (https://www.resilience.org/stories/2022-06-16/chillin-and-killin-how-air-conditioning-has-altered-human-behavior-and-the-environment-episode-60-of-crazy-town/) Rob would also like us to share PCI’s report: “Welcome to the Great Unraveling: Navigating the Polycrisis of Environmental and Social Breakdown (https://www.postcarbon.org/publications/welcome-to-the-great-unraveling/).” It is quality reading and we are pleased that it is making ripples. The song of choice for this episode is ‘Safe Room (https://shockoctopus.bandcamp.com/track/safe-room)’ from host Michael Bayliss’ band ‘Shock Octopus (https://shockoctopus.bandcamp.com/album/a-decade-into-darkness).’ First released in 2011, its apocalyptic tale – of a world that has become so impacted that even the billionaires who created the mess in the first place have no safe place to hide – is becoming all the more prophetic a decade later. Michael and co-host Mark have had our music recently played on the Freedom of Species radio show, here (https://www.3cr.org.au/freedomofspecies/episode/how-can-we-be-effective-advocates-bees) and here (https://www.3cr.org.au/freedomofspecies/episode/orca-revolution-why-are-orcas-attacking-boats-iberian-peninsula) respectively. (The iconic cover of the 'Safe Room' single). We are also excited by the fact that Rob presented at an online Degrowth conference run by New Economy Network Australia (NENA). PGAP has interviewed NENA’s convenor Michelle Maloney twice. The video of Rob’s talk can be watched here. (https://www.neweconomy.org.au/event/crazy-town-mid-week-sanity-preserving-degrowth-hilarity/#more-9711) Your co-hosts Michael Bayliss and Mark Allen are pleased to be back for season five of Post-Growth Australia Podcast. We hope you like the cosmetic changes of this episode (graphics courtesy of Squeaky Pea Designs with photos from Photographica). We are looking forward to another season of quality guests and topics. We have not been idle during our break. You may, for example wish to have a gander at two of our recent published articles, including: “Economic reform vital to solving housing crisi (https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/economic-reform-vital-to-solving-housing-crisis,17646)s” - Mark Allen for Independent Australia “POPULATION GROWTH AND WEALTH INEQUALITY ARE MORE ENTWINED THAN WE THOUGHT: HERE’S WHY (https://www.populationmedia.org/the-latest/population-growth-and-wealth-inequality-are-more-entwined-than-we-thought-heres-why)” – Michael Bayliss for Population Media Center blog. We hit our record monthly listens twice in season four and with your word of mouth we can extend our outreach even further for season five. Share this and other episodes of PGAP with your friends, family and networks. Rate and review us on Apple podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/post-growth-australia-podcast/id1522194099) or your favourite platform. Don’t hesitate to contact us anytime (https://pgap.fireside.fm/contact) with your feedback, thoughts or suggestions. Post-Growth Australia Podcast is made possible from the support of Sustainable Population Australia (https://population.org.au/). Any opinions, views and legacies past and present from our guests are theirs only and may not always reflect that of PGAP or SPA. Episode Timestamp: 0:00:00 to 0:09:31 - Interview sound bye and introduction with Mark Allen 0:09:31 to 0:56:31 - Interview with Rob Dietz, hosted by Michael Bayliss 0:56:32 to 0:59:41 - Music, ‘Safe Room’ by ‘Shock Octopus’. 0:59:42 to 1:05:02 – Outro with Mark Allen Special Guest: Rob Dietz.

In 1998 Population Media Center (https://www.populationmedia.org/) (PMC) was formed to ‘make the stories that remake our world’. 25 years later, radio and TV shows, supported by PMC, have been heard throughout the world, including Ethiopia, Senegal and Papua New Guinea. Produced in collaboration with local communities and local scriptwriters, these shows share a common thread in that the audience are invited to consider positive family planning decisions through the role modelling of engaging and identifiable characters. PGAP was very fortunate to be joined by special guest Bill Ryerson (https://www.populationmedia.org/people/william-ryerson-mphil), President and Founder of PMC. He talks us through the ‘stories behind the stories’ of PMC's many award winning and popular projects. PGAP would like to give a shout out to Paul Winter (https://paulwinter.bandcamp.com/?src=email_link2), who is not only on the program advisory board at PMC, but is also a Grammy winning saxophonist, whose music is inspired by the cultures and creatures of planet Earth. He kindly shared the track ‘Talkabout’ for this episode of PGAP, which we played an extract from after Bill’s interview. We would also like to give a shout-out to Cody Peluso (https://www.populationmedia.org/people/cody-peluso), Digital Advocacy & Mobilization Manager at PMC, without whom this episode would not have been possible. PGAP co-host Michael Bayliss interviewed Cody for a recent edition of the Sustainable Population Australia (SPA) newsletter (https://population.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Feb-SPA-150.pdf). SPA kindly supports PGAP and we encourage you to consider giving SPA a donation (https://population.org.au/donate/) for their end of financial year donation appeal. PMC kindly provided an excerpt from the Hulu series ‘East Los High’, courtesy of Hulu, that we played at the start of this episode. A trailer for the series can be viewed on YouTube here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQnXknnCdoc). We hope you will join PMC in celebrating their 25th anniversary. There are many events lined up, including their Zoom birthday party, held on Zoom on the 15th of June, which you can RSVP here (https://populationmedia-org.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZckcuqqqDksH9dPOk5QqBmQ4yFufDT1JSrT?utm_medium=email&_hsmi=261340862&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8c1MKvoihjFYez5RIgNY_e-JAtwz6TP64-Ys4QfmPdlSm9KYSyTPnirf5azcmoTzXyM8yxJdhMwYN2gRhEPjTuAbbfEdaZpU0ceUn6A-Hvm1U9E6U&utm_content=261210068&utm_source=hs_email#/registration). Unfortunately for Australian listeners, this is well after midnight for us so perhaps one for the night owls. Otherwise you can keep track of PMC's activities on their website here (https://www.populationmedia.org/). Otherwise, please check out PMC’s award winning podcast, Crossing the Line (https://ctlpod.com/). Excellent stuff. While PMC celebrate their 25th anniversary, PGAP will be taking a very short break. This is the last episode of season 4 of Post-Growth Australia Podcast. We made some changes to the format of this podcast, including welcoming co-host Mark Allen. The experiment has worked in our favour, with record number of listens in April and May. While our PGAP community continues to build, we strongly encourage our listeners to reach out and contact us with your feedback, suggestions and thoughts while we are on break. What were the episodes you loved, or not so much? What guests or topics would you like to see in season 5? We would love to hear from you, so don’t be shy in hitting the contact button (https://pgap.fireside.fm/contact). All opinions of PGAP guests, including any past, present and future legacies, are exclusively their own and may not always reflect the views and objectives of Post-Growth Australia Podcast or Sustainable Population Australia. CLICK HERE (https://population.org.au/) to find out more about Sustainable Population Australia. You can find out more about the work of co-hosts Michael Bayliss HERE (https://michaelbayliss.org/) or Mark Allen HERE (https://holisticactivism.net/). We look forward to gracing the airwaves in a month or two. Until then folks, until then! Special Guest: Bill Ryerson.

Fun Fact! When your co-hosts Michael Bayliss and Mark Allen aren’t making brand new episodes of PGAP, they are involved in many other worthy enterprises. Michael has just co-written a brand new report “Population and the Housing Crisis”. Mark performed his debut show at the Adelaide Fringe, “The Boomer and The Doomer.” Like most things we do, this all flew under the blip of the mainstream media radar, so we took the opportunity this episode to interview each other on our respective endeavours. It is not a secret to anyone now that Australia is going through a housing emergency. With Australia one of the most unaffordable countries in the world and with many of us in severe housing stress, this reality is very tangible. As housing stress is reaching its peak, our federal government is committing to one of the largest population growth policies in recent decades. The ‘official’ stance is that the housing crisis is a supply based issue – just keep building more! There has been very little written on the ‘demand’ side of the housing equation. Michael found himself one of the few who were brave or foolhardy enough to tackle this issue alongside co-author Dr. Jane O’Sullivan, with whom Sustainable Population Australia (https://population.org.au/) commissioned to write the report ‘The Housing Crisis is a Population Growth Crisis (https://population.org.au/briefing-notes/the-housing-crisis-is-a-population-growth-crisis/).’ For this episode, Mark interviews Michael on the story behind the report and some of its key findings. (Boomer and the Doomer artwork by Mathisha Wahikala, Mick Thompson and Mark Allen). The housing emergency is just another in long line of emergencies – take your pick! Climate change, boiling oceans, ecological collapse, resource depletion and other fun things. It can be hard to maintain a poker face through this incessant din of human induced calamities, let alone find time to laugh. Michael interviews Mark’s recent experiences in combining political satire with stand- up comedy in his debut show at the Adelaide fringe with comedian Eric Tinker (https://eric-tinker.com/). Combined, they performed the duo show ‘The Boomer and The Doomer’ across three sold out nights in March. We muse on bringing humour into Degrowth conversations, which has been one of PGAP’s key objectives since day one. Eric Tinker's 'MC Boomer rap' can be viewed here on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ4KnRyVA80). (Ice cover artwork by Robert Smith and Mark Allen). We also take time in the episode to play a some choice tracks, 'Ice' (https://countingbackwards.bandcamp.com/track/ice) and 'A Deer Caught In The Highlights (https://shockoctopus.bandcamp.com/track/a-deer-caught-in-the-headlights-4)' from Mark and Michael's respective music projects, 'Counting Backwards (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FHV-lZ1GQk)' and 'Shock Octopus (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q2tfC-6evo&t=5s)'. PGAP will soon be winding down for a short break between our fourth and fifth seasons. This is a perfect time to contact PGAP (https://pgap.fireside.fm/contact) to let us know your feedback and what themes or guests you would like us to explore next time around. Our recent upswing in downloads continues - be part of this movement! Share this and other episodes to your family, friends and networks. Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/post-growth-australia-podcast/id1522194099) or your favourite platform. A big thanks to Sustainable Population Australia (https://population.org.au/) for supporting this podcast. You can find out more about your co-hosts Michael Bayliss (https://michaelbayliss.org/) and Mark Allen (https://holisticactivism.net/town-planning-rebellion-tpr/) at their websites. Episode time stamp: 0:00:00 - 0:03:09 Introduction 0:03:00 - 0:05:07 'Ice' by Counting Backwards 0:05:08 - 0:38:05 Housing Crisis? What Housing Crisis! 0:38:06 - 0:42:10 'A Deer Caught In The Headlights' by Shock Octopus 0:42:11 - End The Boomer and the Doomer + Outro Mark referred to several articles during this show. These include: "Threat to Albanese Government (http://www.crispinhull.com.au/2023/05/01/threat-of-albanese-government/)" - Crispin Hull "Millions living on city fringes at higher risk of climate disasters as federal government warned of 'national crisis (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-28/outer-suburbs-climate-change-resilience-federal-investment-calls/102273256)" - ABC "There is a perfect storm brewing for the housing market and it could make buying your own home a pipedream (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-02/housing-affordability-risks-being-out-of-reach-amid-crisis/102289282)" - ABC Mark's article for Independent Australia, "Why the housing crisis is here to stay" can now be read here (https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/why-the-housing-crisis-is-here-to-stay,17588). A second article, "Economic reform vital to solving housing crisis (https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/economic-reform-vital-to-solving-housing-crisis,17646)", has also been published by IA.