Mortgages, Property, Holiday Lets, Mark's Devizes Launch

For more information on residential or holiday let mortgages, get in touch for a free initial consultation here: https://www.hhhmortgages.com/

In this episode of the podcast, we're talking about financial planning tips on buying a furnished holiday let. Our guest is Zoe, a chartered financial planner.

Zoe starts by defining what we mean by a furnished holiday let. She explains that it's a property in the UK that is furnished, rented out with the intention of making a profit, and meets the occupancy conditions. These conditions include being available to let for 210 days per year and being let out for at least 105 days per year.

Zoe then talks about the tax benefits of owning a furnished holiday let. She explains that you can claim capital allowances, mortgage interest relief, and business rates relief. You can also apportion the profits of the business to the most tax-efficient person, which can be beneficial if one person in the partnership is a higher rate taxpayer.

Zoe also discusses the risks of owning a furnished holiday let. She mentions that it can be more difficult to manage than a traditional buy-to-let property, and there is always the risk of void periods.

Finally, Zoe talks about the financial planning considerations that you need to take into account before buying a furnished holiday let. She recommends working with a financial advisor to make sure that you're making the right decision for your individual circumstances.

Here are some key takeaways from the interview:

• Furnished holiday lets can offer a number of tax benefits, such as capital allowances, mortgage interest relief, and business rates relief.
• However, there are also some risks associated with owning a furnished holiday let, such as the higher level of management required and the risk of void periods.
• It's important to work with a financial advisor before buying a furnished holiday let to make sure that it's the right investment for you.

If you're thinking about buying a furnished holiday let, I encourage you to listen to this episode of the podcast. Zoe provides a wealth of valuable information that can help you make an informed decision. 

In this podcast, Julia de Battista from Hodge Bank, talks to Mark about holiday let mortgages. Jules discusses how Hodge got into holiday let lending, what they have learnt in the time they have been lending, and the quality of property they see in the market. She also shares some amusing tales about unusual or quirky holiday let properties.

Julia also provides valuable insights into the holiday let lending market, and some of the history behind Hodge bank and how they give back to the community. This interview is a great resource for anyone who is considering investing in a holiday let property.

Here are some of the key takeaways:

Holiday let lending is a growing market, and there are now many lenders who offer specialist products.

Lenders will look at a number of factors when assessing a holiday let mortgage application, including the quality of the property, the borrower's financial history, and the rental potential of the property.

Holiday let mortgages can be a good way to generate income and build equity, but they are not without risks. Borrowers should carefully consider their financial situation before investing in a holiday let property.

Overall, this is a informative and entertaining podcast that provides valuable insights into the holiday let lending market.

Here's a transcript of this episode:

How are you?  

Yes. Good. Good, good, good. Love to see you today.  

You too. You too.  

So you are launching in devices, you've just moved to devices. That's an exciting life change.  

Yes, it has. I mean, we got to the stage, Jill, where we were sort of rattling around in the house in Gloucestershire and we thought that a downsize would be better now than should we say in five years time.

And, having thought about that, and actually having done it, I'm so glad we did because there was a lot of hard work, there was huge amounts of stuff to physically dispose of, physically give to charity shops physically sell and of course there's lots of paperwork and stress involved in a move. So from a broker point of view, it really did teach me.

It made me fitter and it taught me lots of lessons, to be fair. It made me really think, and I sort of appeal to all brokers out there who listen to this, you know, really think about your customer because they're going through an awful lot. You are just doing the paperwork, you are ticking boxes.

You are getting hassley calls from a valuer or from a lender or from an underwriter. And you are thinking about it from your point of view, but sometimes you just need also perhaps, and I've certainly learned from this, and I've been doing this a long time, just think about the customer too, because they will be going through all kinds of different emotions.

Yes it is, it is a very emotional situation because it's you know, it's your home. So talking of that, how are you settling into the new house?  

Love it. Love it. So basically, Jill, we come down to devices. We bought a house half the size. We just find everything so convenient here. So we were in the Cotswolds, we loved it in the Cotswolds. You had many, many friends up there but you know, Claire's just come back from shopping and it's taken a three minutes to go to the supermarket, whereas it's a 20 minute run and then 20 minutes back before. So think about that. You know, used to the environment and all that stuff and, and her time.

And our time. You know, it's just a tiny thing, but it just shows and, and everything is around. The neighbors are friendly. The house is lovely. We got work to do. Of course, we have to make it as we want it, but basically, It works. Hey, we've got solar panels, Jill, so I don't understand them, but they seem to be doing the job because there's three green lights on whatever three green lights means.

So I need a, I need a chap to come around and show me, a chap or a lady, I should say, shouldn't I, to come and show me how the green, how the solar panels work. But we've got a water softner, so I got a think it beep tap me the other night and I had to get up in the middle night and pour some salt in it cause he got hungry.

So we're having lots of fun, um, working out new things. And we got one of those, one of those kettle Taps. Yes. Hot tap. So, so we now put the hot water straight in the cup. So that's the, that's another great thing. So yeah, loving the house, loving the area. We found some really nice walks. Wilshire is a, an understated county.

Everybody talks about the Cotswolds and the beauty of the Cotswolds. Yes, I get that. But one of the reasons we came here was because we got married here 35 years ago and we wanted to come back and we are not disappointed. You just go literally a mile out from where we live and you are on a beautiful hill overlooking, you know, all the way back to Bath, all the way back to Salisbury.

Absolutely fantastic, that's brilliant. That sounds great. And, yes, and I'm loving the solar panels and water softeners and, you know, and how, what a difference those things can make. In your life, you'll see a difference, I think, in your electricity bills.  

We certainly will. We've got no gas. We, I've got no gas bill now, so that's gone west.Dealing with, dealing with the utilities is another thing. You know, it's an interesting thing, I'm trying to deal with my county council to get my council tax up and paid, you know, the, the, the direct debit. Set up and everything else, and they keep asking me to register with an account number, well, they haven't given me an account number, so therefore I can't register.

And so yet again, you know the frustration of dealing with a larger organization and all you wanna do is speak to someone. All I want to do is pick up the phone and say, if it's Jill, hi Jill, can you tell me how I access my account number for my council tax? Cause I'd like to pay you, but I can't speak to anybody.

It's so frustrating. Bt promised me, I shouldn't say bt. Should I? A? A? Internet provider promised me it would be all done on the 3rd of May. The man came round and he was a nice man and he said, I'll have this done in 10 minutes. And then he disappeared for five hours and I never saw him again. And it, and his boss had to get involved and basically said to me, you know, It was a problem he should have solved.

I'm really sorry. But that was four days later. And it is so frustrating because all you want to do is speak to someone and in the, I shouldn't say the old day, should I, but back in the day, you could phone someone and a local person would be involved. And I, it really worries me. You know, the, the whole future, the whole AI thing, and it's what we do, you know, helping people with mortgages.

If people can't help people, then you can have as much AI as you like, but frankly it's going to cause major problems, rant over. That's really interesting and a very interesting rant, and I think, you know, that's something that we think about at House and Holiday Home is about relationships with customers and focusing and listening to what people's needs are. And then, you know, tailoring our response to that. And maybe what we need to do with AI is, you know, get it to do the number crunching so that we can focus on customer relations.  

Yeah, I know. Yes No, you're right. I mean, you know, the first question we're asked is, why, why should I come to you?

Why can't I just go to the bank and do this? Well, you can, good luck. If your case is very straightforward, you can probably go to a, a high street leading bank in your town, online or whatever, and it will work, but, Honestly, Jill, 90% of the cases we see are not straightforward.

There's always something. There's always someone else living in the house. There's always a little blip with the credit. There's always, I don't know, an annex on the property. There's always something, and that's why basically robot mortgages never really got off the ground because they thought it was a great idea, but in the end, what did they do?

The robot companies all employed Lots of brokers to speak to people. Hey, that's interesting, isn't it? It really is. And, and you're right, and I, I read something in mortgage strategy today about how they, they're thinking that even more complexity is, is coming up in the future around mortgages, so we can have a little chat about that in the minute in.

I, in fact, Jill, I'm really worried about you actually, Jill because everybody, Jill's our marketing lady and, and she is a creative writer by profession. And now she's talking to me about reading mortgage strategy. Jill, what have we done to you? I'm gonna speak to Joe when he gets back and say, just leave Jill alone.

She's now reading mortgage Strategy. It's great. Jill, we're so pleased with what you are doing, but I'm very worried that you are going to, won't be able to write the next Harry Potter.  

I have to say, I'm finding the world of mortgages really, really fascinating and I'm loving it and I can see that it's actually a really interesting subject area.

So there you go. There you go. People, hang on a minute. This pause. Pause this podcast. I gotta go and get a drink, Jill. I was like, this is good. I've been doing this for years and Oh, bless you. Okay, come on. Next question.

Okay. So actually the next question was about the future. So, what are you looking forward to, forward to in the future as far as changes to your lifestyle and any property changes that you want to make around the house that you're thinking about? You know, not, not right now, not immediate changes, but things you might like to do.

Okay. So I think Jill, it's really business as usual for me at the moment. Joe and I are embarking on growing this business and in the meantime, you know, I have a large book of clients who I know that when you, and, and I know brokers will relate to this, you come offline for four or five days because you have no internet and you know, despite your efforts to use your phone and everything else, It's a nightmare, you know, because basically we've gotta look after people and I've got a big enough mortgage book to continue looking after people for, you know, many a year certainly as long as I'm fit and able to do so. So it's just basically me moving the office from Gloucestershire across the border, getting a ticket to get out of Gloucestershire into wheelchair, get signed into Wilshire and carry on. Business as usual and carry on. I'm half an hour closer to Joe physically, so that's easier for us.

We can meet halfway, half an hour away each, and, you know, we can continue to build and grow the business. So yes, I'd like to a little bit less, but I don't think it's going to happen for, for a while. I don't think I'm going to be allowed to. Joe won't allow me and the customers won't allow me, so I just won't give up and just keep going basically.

But yes, no, I do want to think about my own mental health. Think about. You know, my future so I think really the honest answer to that question is, uh, Eight, Busby Close, Stroud is the same as 10 Tilly, close Devices, Wiltshire, crack on, keep going with our customers, speaking to customers from all over the country -- spoken to 3, 4, 5 new customers this week. They're coming in by all your efforts and the efforts on our internet is doing and providing there's still a big market holiday let out there, there's no doubt about that. You know, there's, there's some doubts and concerns out there, but there's still a lot of people who want help.

Right. That's interesting. That's interesting. And, yes so are there any activities that you'd like to get involved in locally?

Well, yes. No. Golf. Yes no golf. So, basically my golf is pretty bad, but I do love it. So there, there's two golf courses. Within, within a, within a drive of here. I don't see, well, not my drive.

Might be Joe's Drive, not my drive, but anyway, there's a posh golf course in North Wiltshire and there's a course that is, should we say, changing ownership and need some help and the new owners have bought the course and they're going to put it back to its original state. So it was really exciting going over there the evening.

It's beautiful evening, beautiful course lovely trees and, and beautiful countryside surrounding. And you just think that the guys there have got a blank canvas when they get the greens mended and the grass mown. Fantastic opportunity though. I feel like I should be going in something new on that particular course.

And, I've actually asked the bowls club if I can come along and play bowls like, you know, like a lot of people, we are all good at bowls in the garden and we've all played together in the, in our time. We've all been tenpin bowling. So I think it's time to go bowling and. I actually missed the open day because we were moving in on that day.

And, but they had 27 new members. So I think there's a myth out there that bowls is for old men you know, and older people, forget that. I think there's a, I know that this particular club, there's a lot of young people there and whilst I'm not quite in that young category anymore, I'm looking forward to Getting on the green I think that's the right phrase.

I don't know. But, so waiting for a call back from those guys. I've found some walks. We live right next to the Kennet and Avon Canal. So I've been walking down the canal this morning before I started work watching the Swans and the narrow boats go by. So what's not to like?

Yes, I've heard the same thing about bowls that it's really growing in popularity and lots of people, lots of younger people are getting involved. So, hopefully we'll get a little bit more of a French attitude towards how relaxing it is and what a lovely social activity it is.  

Yes. When I start seeing you reading bowls weekly, I shall really start worrying about you.

Come on. I'm still writing. I'm still writing. Still writing. So okay. So I was wondering if, although you've kind of answered this question, but I'm wondering if you've got any ideas about what you would like to do when it comes to the business, especially now you've moved.  

Business. I think basically the business is, Joe and I to continue to create and manage and grow a sustainable mortgage brokerage, which has a family feel to it.

A feel where brokers can join us and feel relaxed and not under pressure, and not governed by targets or silly rules. We. Belong to a network that look after us really, really well. Of course they have strong compliance aims and strong compliance objectives. We've got no problem with that because they're there to keep us safe and we must do our job correctly.

So I just want to see, I, I'd like to, you know, when I hang up my pen in a number of years time, I'd love to see, love to hand over a very successful business to Joe, for Joe to do as and what. As and when he wants with it. That's the aim, really. So let's keep growing up. I have to remember Jill, and you have to remember that I started this as just me and it was very much a survival operation back to the wall.

How am I gonna earn some money? My last company that wasn't my company had been sold and I was sort of left with nowhere to go and my network came and rescued me and. I was on my own and I, you know, was delighted to do one mortgage a week and, and you know, I thought, my God, you know, I've got to earn some money because there'll be no food on the table.

It was as simple as that. Now we have new challenges. Now, you know, we have all the regulatory challenges, we have the market challenges, and we have the challenges of owning a business with employees. You know, at the end of the month, I have to pay you, Jill, and we do that by, you know, all working together, putting our shoulder to the wheel, and hopefully, um, there's a little bit left for us all at the end of the day.

Well, I have to say from my point of view, it is the loveliest work environment I've ever had the loveliest team to work with. That I've ever experienced, so, and that's, oh, thank you, 25 years in teaching.  

We, we enjoy it. So know, it's, it's not easy. And, any broker listening to this will know that every day is full of hassle and nose and rejections and kickbacks and surprises and things not quite being like you thought they were gonna be. And lenders saying yes, and lenders then saying no and value was finding something that you had no idea was going to crop up. So there's always something, but hey, you know, To use the phrase, nobody died. It's just a matter of dealing with it.

And at the end of the day, going back to where we started this podcast actually making someone's move or someone's remortgage as smooth as you can so that they write a nice review, hopefully, and, but more importantly, that they're happy, that's the most important thing. And I know that while I was waiting for decisions from a estate agent's, decisions from solicitors, Arguing with decisions or arguing with calls made by solicitors, you know, it's a stressful time buying a buying and selling a house.

Absolutely. And I find that, that that warmth and that supportive atmosphere runs throughout the whole business, throughout the whole team. And that's lovely. So I was the next thing I was going to ask you is what are your thoughts about the current climate in 2023 regarding mortgages? Because things seem to be changing really, really rapidly.

You wrote something yesterday, I think about the new a hundred percent mortgage that's coming in and yeah. Do you think there are lots of products and ideas that are just about to come on the scene? I, I think that if you probably, if you could get the key to the door of the lender's clever box, you know, I think you'd find all kinds of things going on in there.

But then I think they have to get those to market they have to be profitable for the lender. They have to be regulatory compliant you know, as I'd said to you about the hundred percent mortgages, you, you can have as many snappy schemes as you want. But at the end of the day, they've gotta be affordable for the client.

And we, we are still battling in an environment where there is a shortage of supply. Um, there's a, there's a great shortage of, of housing stock and house prices continue to rise and, and salaries don't rise at that same level. So, You know, it's not easy. It's not easy you know, people look to equity release, more people, older people are having to borrow money to help their youngsters help themselves.

There's a, you know, there's a  lot of challenges going on.  A lot of, you know, there's a lot, there's plenty of work for a good brokerage. There's no doubt about that. Right, right. Yeah. Yep. Lots happening. Lots of changes going on. In the economy and, and in the world of mortgages.  

So, have you managed to, can I just say, um, to anybody listening that Dexter, the dog has joined us and he's a king among dogs.

Yeah. He, yes, we, you asked me about the house. We had a decorator come this morning, Dexter did not like the decorator, unfortunately. Yes you've been to Joe's house so you know how it works when you are a newbie in, in Joe's house, you have to do a lot of things to get accepted by the prince.

I'm not gonna call him the king cause he's the prince. I think he is. He's not, he hasn't reached king level yet. He likes to think he has. But, yes. The, the house and holiday home official dog Has a very large character you know, when your, when your son goes on holiday and leaves him with you, you suddenly realize he's a lot harder than your own dog.

Cause there's a level, a lot of responsibility, which you didn't worry about with your own dog. We weren't, we rambled. You go on. He's a, he's a, he's a wonderful character. And I, you know, and I'm wondering what you, what you have discovered or what you think the holiday let market in your area is like in your new area.

I think Jill, to be honest, you know, you've got Bath, you've got, you've got, we're not far from doorstep. We're not far. So, so, but in, in real honesty, you know, we are a nationwide business that covers everywhere. So, you know, I was talking to our colleague yesterday about property in the Isle of Aaron.  

We've got three in Yorkshire we're looking at at the moment.

So yeah, Devises are beautiful and you know, you've got the, as I say, we've got the boats going up and down the canal, which just reminds me that people basically go on holiday and need someone to go on holiday. So, from that point of view, we've moved from one lovey area to another but I think the challenge is, you know, in the industry will have to watch carefully what the government do about trying to stem the number of new holiday lets in an area.

I understand that but you know, we keep saying you mustn't kill that area because if you, if you stop them, if you stop it, dead people will stop investing. If people stop investing, then. The, the cleaner, the, the person who does the handover, the butcher, the baker, the guy that runs the pub or the people that run the pub, is suddenly they're gonna be without employee.

And you know, whilst we want to see first time buyers in Cornwall and Devon, everywhere, of course we do and I get that entirely, but these are five, 600,000 pound houses, so let's not, you know, let's not shut the baby out with a bath water. I think that would be my message.  

Agreed. Agreed, yes. I've recently come to an area where a lot of people are employed in the business surrounding tourism.

It's called tourism. Absolutely, isn't it? It's simple. It's the T word. Yeah. Yeah. Let's not, let's not.  

I grew up Exactly. I grew up in a seaside town and my first ever job was serving ice creams. Yes it gives wonderful Sort of breath of fresh air and it does help the local economy, commerce especially quite, yeah, especially in quite remote areas.

Yes. And we've seen, seen them where we've seen much work. That's right Jill. We've seen the you know, the pressure on buy to let landlords. And a lot, a lot of small landlords are giving up. They can't cope with the regulations, the legislation, the tax changes, and they just say it's not worth it. Well, people need somewhere to rent.

This is the problem. So they won't automatically become a large landlord. The house will get sold. You could argue it's good that it's sold privately. I understand that it's someone else buying a house, but at the end of the day, there are still. A lot of people for a lot of reasons who need to rent.

Absolutely.  

And it's another rant over,  

Hey look, I love your rants. And it's getting the balance. It's just getting the balance, isn't it?  

The balance, yes. So hopefully the government regulations and rules will, will take that into account and listen to brokers and everybody involved in the industry.

Yep. Um, so we're coming to the end of this podcast. Mark, it's been absolutely lovely talking to you, and I just wanted to ask you one last question have you got anyone in mind that you could interview who's in the industry, who your listeners  would like to from? Yeah,  

Jill, that's interesting actually as you know, I like doing a podcast and you know, the more we do, the better they become, I think I enjoy listening to them and I like doing them. So I've got two ideas there. There's my sort of professional podcast, which is talking to solicitors, accountants, estate agents. Anybody holiday letting agents, anybody in the holiday industry who wants to come on board and have a chat about what's going on in that industry, I am.

Really happy to have half an hour with, have some fun as well and ask them their favorite football team and all that kind of stuff, but also get some serious stuff, um, about the holiday let world I did three, two or three years ago and they're still being listened to now, so I know it works. And then I've got my own little light here, Jill, which I'll share with you.

Don't tell anybody else, but I want to talk to people about their homes. Why did you buy that home? What is special to you about the home? So, you know, we'll talk about the area, we'll talk about why you bought it. We'll talk about the buying experience. Uh, these people have got a story too. And, uh, but I also wanna see anybody who wants to come on and talk about their home, what's special to them about their home, then, Dial in and uh, email me or whatever, a market, hh mortgages.com.

And I want to make this podcast, um, a real must listen to. That would be one of my aims in the next two or three years. Well, that's great. And, uh, shall I tweet. That little request. Shall I? Yeah, I'll leave it. Yeah, you, you tweak whatever you do. Jill, you are very good at all that stuff. Bless you.

Definitely, definitely. Ah, well thank you so much that it was wonderful you know, to chat to you and I'm sure your listeners will get an awful lot from that and also be very excited about your experiences and your new Yes, your new home and we'll want to hear more about you joining the bowling club.

Ah, anybody, sorry. I mean, anybody in Devizes? Anybody in Wiltshire? Anybody in SN 10? Anybody in SN nine or wherever we are in Wiltshire? Anybody who wants to meet up, have a coffee I know the coffee places. Um, I know the walks. So very happy to meet with professional lead minded people I don't think there's a great networking, um, um, environment here, business networking, so maybe I should start one.

I'm Happy to, happy to, to meet anybody from the area and have a chat lots to share and, good luck everybody and have a great weekend. Lovely. Thank you so much. Thanks, Jill.

In this episode, Mark talks to Joe about how he got a great price for his property which he recently sold. 

Full of insights, hints and tips about how to go about buying and selling your home in the current property market, this episode is a treasure-trove of information for anyone considering going on the same journey in 2023. 

As a mortgage advisor with many years of experience, and a director of House and Holiday Home Mortgages, Mark Stallard really does know what he's talking about when it comes to buying a home -- but this is the first time he's moved in seventeen years. 

Tune it to hear what he has to say about this -- and make notes!

Transcript:

So, I've taken over the podcast today. 

Well, it's a little bit of an impromptu recording, but you are in the process of moving home and …

And I thought just hearing you talk about it, because you tell me every single day what's going on, which is really boring, not annoying at all.

Yeah. I thought it'd be really good to actually hear your experiences. Cause you haven't moved in 17 years, have you? So, actually we're helping people do this stuff every single day of the week, but you are now going through it yourself. 

Okay, well now listen ladies and gentlemen, I didn't know this was going to happen, so bear with me.

The story is, so every year Joe comes up to our house for Christmas and he keeps telling mum and I that we're rattling around and it’s time we move. I think he's after the Stallard fortune, but in January this year. I thought, yeah, Joe, you might have a point actually that we are spending a lot of money on energy as a lot of people are now, and um, that may be the catalyst for this.

The next problem I had was to convince Mrs. Stallard that we actually needed to move because she said, well, I'm not rattling around so we need to convince Mrs. St that we need to move. And, but more importantly, where and to.  and I just tended to be, you know, like you do. I tended to leave, flew a few properties across her bows, shake of the head, carry on watching the tv.

Okay, that isn't going to work. And then I chanced on one in a town where Joe's mum and I actually met and married in devices in wheelchair, and I flew this across her and she said, I. So we have to persuade the estate agent, Dan, in Devises to let us look at it because the poor gentleman selling the property had been let down a couple of times and he didn't want tyre kickers, like the Stallards coming down, spending an hour of his time to say whether they liked it or not, 

because your house wasn't even on the market at this point. Was it? 

Our house wasn't on the market. So there's - in this fun podcast, there are lots of little life lessons hopefully that you'll pick up from me.

So, the first message was, don't give up, because I then wrote a long email saying why Claire and I should go and look at this property. I was very persuasive. And what was, what was in that email? What did you say? Well, I, I basically said, look, we're not going to waste your time. If we like your property, we will go back and we will put our property straight on the market.

Everybody says this, but we do own a very sellable property in a very sellable area in the Cotswolds. So, I was just persuasive and said, look, we're not going to waste your time. We're not going to mess you about. We'll come in, we'll go out, we'll take our shoes off, we'll wander about, the vendor wanted to show us round. And We'll listen to what you've got to say and if you could just give us 20 minutes. Hopefully it'll be beneficial for all parties. Well, it certainly was. We went down to devices, we looked at the property. I could tell because you know, if you're married for a long time, you know stuff. And I could tell that, that, that Claire liked the property very much so we went back to the agent in in town and told.

The agent that we'd like to not put an offer in because we weren't in a position to do that, but we'd certainly be interested and we'd certainly put our property on the market very shortly. So I think the, the, so number point lesson than number one, don't give up. Lesson number two, find out what the other half wants.

And I know that sounds obvious, but I actually didn't really realize that what Joe's mom wanted more than anything else was to be quite close to a town center. You know, we're just turning 65 now and we don't wanna be doing this again. This will be a last move. So, Listen to what your partner wants and really understand.

Um, yeah. Obviously if you can make it, make it work between you, great. So we could, because I'm, I was happy as long as the property was in good order. That was a, another prerequisite of Claire's and also near to a town that we like and a town that we know, and friends that we know. We didn't really wanna move to an area where we knew no one, because that would be a new start.

So this is all about a downsizing exercise. Okay. Interesting. And how's that going? Oh boy. Um, right. So most people of our age, of our generation will understand that they probably have a loft. And the loft is full of stuff. It's full of your stuff, it's full of your children's stuff. Your children are not in a particular hurry to see you.

Come and get it and take it away. Um, so we have been literally, I am now on personal friendship terms with John at the tip. Um, we know each other well. I, uh, um, uh, we've passed the time of day, most Sunday mornings and I sort of look longingly at stuff. I pour into the tip never to be used again. And then I think to myself, well, we're going to a house that's probably half the size of what we live in at the moment.

We cannot take it with us. , will we gonna use it? No. So Mark, get over yourself. Put it in that tip. I just so people don't think you're a terrible person as well. You have offered a lot of this stuff to charity shop. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm a friend of Facebook marketing, uh, Facebook marketplace. That's been very, very good.

And we have given a lot to charity. Uh, we've particularly used the door in Stroud, um, a wonderful homeless, uh, charity organization. Young, struggling children in, in, um, young adults in Stroud. So been very, they've been most helpful and taken lots of stuff. Um, I'm a little bit like, you know, the guy on the, on the Great Escape who's trying to get the sand out of his trousers as he walks around the, the compound.

You know, we're trying to find new charity shops, , new places to get rid of stuff. It's quite a challenge, I tell you, but, uh, it's quite cathartic in a way. I, I, I have enjoyed coming home with an empty, empty boot, an empty backseat, um, on those Sunday morning. So that's been a challenge. So, to, to set the scene, you haven't completed yet?

No. But you've got a relatively small chain. Yep. Um, and you're in the, the legal stages Yeah. At the moment. Tell us about listing the property and how you chose your agent. I'm not saying to, to tell us who the agent is and, and don't share anything you don't want to. But how'd you go up making that choice and actually getting the property on the market?

I think. Doing the things that you do. So you are looking for a local reputation. Um, we'd spoken to an agent last year. We were very impressed with that, the way that that agent presented herself. And so it was easy for us because we went back to her. We asked her out again this year. 20. In 2023. In January 23, um, she knew the property.

Um, she was professional in her, um, delivery to us, telling us the kind of marketplace to expect, the kind of price to expect. Um, she asked us to put the price down a little bit deliberately to generate interest. Um, I have a friend who's got a property on at the moment and he's gone high and he's getting not very many viewings and he's saying, okay, that's alright, mark.

I don't really. Because the viewers will all come out at Easter time. My problem with that, Joe, is that, um, and it's a personal, personal opinion. My problem is, is that, um, his house would've been on the market for quite a while. At that stage, I think we hit it hard and fresh. There was one or two much rings locally about, we were underselling it, but actually, Achieved the price or at, to this day, we've achieved the price that we wanted to by generating competition.

Um, we made sure that the house was beautifully presented. Um, Claire spent hours and hours cleaning it and making it. Look really nice. I like how she's good. I think that if we don't sell a house, I must keep her up to that standard cause the house is really nice and tidy now. , you're afraid, man. I'll get in trouble now.

Um, so we, uh, uh, we got I think 11 viewings. We had four offers, a couple of over asking price offers. Um, and we showed the property nicely. We had it properly professionally photographed. We had it professionally videoed 3D videos and you know, we threw the proverbial kitchen sink at doing it. It's only took a week or so.

Two weeks to sell. Yeah, two weeks to sell. Um, good area, good house, but also I think presented properly at the correct price. I think that's really important. Excellent. I think Joe, I'd like to make, to throw in a really big point here, probably tip number three, if you like, as a mortgage broker, I've been doing this for more years than I can, can remember Cause you correctly alluded to it at the beginning of the chat.

I haven't, I've lived in the same house since 2006. Um. Probably every mortgage broker should probably sell their house every five years just to remind themselves of what the client has to go through. Now we haven't, we haven't had to go through anything bad, don't get me wrong, but it is a stressful occasion, the whole physical up to the tip malarkey.

We haven't been going out seeing our friends or playing golf because we'd been running to the tip the whole. Is she, isn't she? Are they? Aren't they? Why hasn't someone throw me back? Um, what will the surveyor do when he comes to look at my property? So you're going through a rollercoaster of emotions and thoughts in your head.

Um, and because I suppose I, it's been brought into bigger focus for me because I have in the last 20. Thought that I've seen every possible, um, situation arise. And I've always told my customers that there's always one or two bumps in the road before they get that magic exchange done. Um, and most of those bumps are sorted.

Um, so they're always bumps in the road. We've had a little bump in the road. I, I will allude to that in a second. Um, but it, it is an stressful occasion because people, um, I think generally are too busy. Or can be too busy to communicate with you, and I'm not having to go at anybody here, but you want people to communicate with you.

You want people to tell you what's happening, et cetera, et cetera. And you are also putting your faith. I've got all my chips now on the sale of this house. I've got all my. Chips are on red, basically, because, you know, we've effectively in our heads, we've moved from STR to devices and that's really important because that emotional side of it.

Has that surprised you? Um, I. Probably not because, um, I'm probably more of a worrier than my wife is, to be fair, uh, than your mum is Joe, to be fair, cuz she just lets you, she just takes the, whatever will be, will be route. But as I say, I probably know too much and I know where these things drop off and I know I've seen people, I've had customers phone me up and say that they've had a survey done on their house and someone doesn't like the fact that the guttering needs repairing and now they're gonna pull out.

So I've heard all that. So that does echo with me. Um, I stress my buyers have certainly not done that. They've been nothing but super. Um, but obviously there's always that worry that they might change their mind or something, or something might happen. So you've gotta be really strong, mentally strong with yourself, um, about this.

And I guess learnings for us as a, as a brokerage, have you seen anything that, from your experience, you think we can be doing better to help people? Going through this? Yeah, it's a, it's a really good question, and I think that it's the old chestnuts that you sometimes forget, don't use jargon. Um, you know, my, my solicitor has certainly said stuff to me, which I haven't really understood and I've had to ask her to explain to me, which.

Done obviously beautifully, but so that's jargony type stuff. So don't use jargon. You know, we talk about ERCs to the customer. What on earth is an E R C? An E R C is an early repayment charge on their mortgage, but don't assume they know what an E R C is. Don't talk about souls because they're solicitors and talk about solicitors, not souls, basically.

Um, and so, yeah, it's uh, um, I think learn that also people want to be treated with respect. They want to be treat. , honestly, um, they want to be treated in a very timely fashion. So it's all the stuff that we know that because we are focused on giving someone a mortgage and getting that mortgage and probably dealing with a lender who sometimes will ask us silly questions, we sometimes forget is actually a customer waiting for an answer or waiting for an update.

Interesting. Yeah, no, I think it's a very. From all that you said. I think it's just that communication is key right across the board, right? Yeah. It's, it's how you got in to view that property. Yeah. And it's what would make your legal process as straightforward as possible and probably everything in between, right?

Yeah. I think tip number five, so this is my little bump in a road here, tip number five. Um, very, I'll give you a very brief synopsis on this. So in 2021, a tree in a wood. My house over the, over the fence, not on my land. A branch fell into my garden. We rang the, um, company that owned the wood and they very quickly and generously sent a man out quickly to sort it out.

I thought he was going to come with his chainsaw, but he didn't. He came with his clipboard and he looked at the tree and he said he's got to talk to the local council about that tree, uh, because there's a tree preservation order on it, and he needs to come back in three. When they'd given him permission to chop the branch down, fine.

No problem at all, man. Arrived back with three other men. Four cups of coffee were distributed. Branch was chopped down, men shook hands and they would disappeared. And I forgot all about it. Only two days ago, um, I've now discovered that the solicitor on the other side has got a note in the searches or whatever that eight be close.

My address has a tree preservation order in our name with a Mr. Davis on it. Well, they said, well, what about this tree? Well, the tree is not mine. It's not in my land. It's just that someone has. Our name on that now needs to be sorted and got rid of and satisfied. It's that kind of stuff that you can't prepare for.

What you can prepare for is making sure, ladies and gentlemen, that you have a drawer full of receipts, guarantees, um, anything you've done to the property. Um, if you've put new patio doors in, have you got a fences certificate? If you put a wood burning stove in, have you got the correct heat task documentation because trust, More than ever now, and that's something I didn't remember happening in 2006 more than ever now the, um, solicitors on the other side will want all that documentation so, you know, be good house managers I think is probably the, the message there.

Cool. Fab. Well, we probably will revisit this when you touch wood. Have completed. Okay. Um, but is there anything else you think would be useful for, for people to hear from your experience so far? No, I, I think I just wanna wrap up by saying, um, be honest, um, be straightforward, um, be organized, um, be kind because that's important as well.

Um, and try and work with everybody on it as much as you. Fab. Good stuff. So a little bit of a change from the holiday, let scene today, but hopefully that has been useful for everyone as ever. Any questions, any, any uh, comments, get involved and, uh, and let us know and we'll certainly be more than happy to help where we can.

Lovely. Thanks Joe. 

Everyone's talking about the property market right now and the holiday let property market is all part of that. When it comes to getting a mortgage on a holiday property, knowing what the market is like, and what lenders are looking for is vital.  

In this episode, Mark talks to his son, Joe Stallard, director at House and Holiday Home Mortgages, about exactly what's going on in this pocket of the UK economy right now.  

Much of what they discuss is the kind of information you won't hear anywhere else!

Transcript of the show:

State of the Holiday Let Market.

 Joe, good morning. lovely to be in Winchester on a bright spring morning. It's a long time since we got together and talked about the holiday let market. Absolutely. And, so I thought it was a good opportunity to just go over what's happening in the marketplace since what was a very busy period for everybody. So, tell me about, let's start and talk about the panic the pandemic ended. Where, where do you think we are now, Joe Holiday, that market wise?

 Sure. So, yeah, so I guess the, the pandemic was obviously very busy in the, in the holiday, that world. It was, , everybody jumping on the the boom of, of staycations, as it were really. So where are we now? Well, we're March 23, so things have settled a bit. We seem to have mainly come out the, the other end of it but obviously we've had the cost of living stuff that, that's occurred sort of between the real boom and, and now, I don’t know about you, but how you found that with, with your clients and how that's impacted things.

Yeah. I think Joe, the answer to that is, is I think the people who really want to do this are still in the market. They still want to go at, they still want to find the properties that they're looking for. I think the people that read in the newspaper, it was a good idea to own a holiday let, I think they've probably somewhat evaporated away.

So, I think it's, we've got the professionals now, to be fair. Yes, I think I'd, I'd probably echo those sentiments. I think, you know, we have lots of conversations with people looking at, at properties, looking at costs and understanding stuff, but perhaps they're a little bit more hesitant to, to pull the trigger on something than they were previously.

And I think it, to a degree, might have professionalized. Sector a little bit. Yeah. I don't think, I don't think the number of inquiries we've got has actually gone down perhaps as much as I thought it might do. I think the cost-of-living thing is, a big challenge. I think that with has prices, you know, still high in certain , and still high in that sort of Devon and Cornwall areas that we work.

Obviously I still think that there's a challenge there for people to make the numbers work. Do you agree? 

I do. I do. I think though, you see, you know, one of the biggest agents in the country -- cottages.com, they came out with their figures and said that that January bookings were up 33% year on year.

So, obviously, going from one of the biggest years in holidays -- that's last year-- to still rising this year. I think that's a good sign. I think the cost of living is probably a challenge, but actually what it's probably done is it that the UK holiday, without all those additional costs of flying abroad, of central airport problems, cancellations of being able to take the dog with you on holiday and not put it in kennels for, you know, 300 pounds a week or whatever it would be on top of your normal holiday. I think there's still a, a desire for people to still want a break and get away. Yeah. I spoke to a client only last week and she said that they used to go abroad every year, but they don't go abroad now.

They went during pandemic, they went to Yorkshire, they discovered Yorkshire, they found how beautiful it was, and they're now looking to buy a large property in Yorkshire, for themselves and, and to let out as well. And I think that actually mirrors many people. I certainly did two airport trips last year and I wouldn't really relish with any great gusto again.

It wasn't pleasant, it wasn't fun. I think you touched on something there as well, that people have discovered little pockets of the UK that they might not have gone to before. 

And I think even if moving forwards, the UK holiday isn't their main holiday, which I think it will be for many, but I think it will still be those long weekends, those short breaks as a bit of a change of scenery and.

Exploring some of the the stuff the UK has to offer. Yeah. Okay. So let, let's talk for a minute and Joe, about lenders. Have we got new lenders in the marketplace? How are our lenders? And what's it like out there? 

Yeah, so I think, you know, we've been quite slack on recording these, so, since, since the last one, we have a quite a lot of new entrants into the, into the holiday lending market, which is, which is great. I think lenders, in the holiday let space, we tend to get the smaller building societies who are, who are really specialists at what they do. , and that means perhaps they're a little slower to come into the space than, than we would've liked during the boom and actually doing things a bit different.

So yeah, we've had multiple new entrants, which is ultimately good for, for clients and competition. I still think there's a, a bit of a lack of true product innovation in the space. Yeah, and by that I mean people considering doing multi-unit holiday lets the mixture of a, a home and a holiday, let property on the, on the same title.

So, I still think there's definitely room for a few more entrants and, and a bit more product innovation, but generally it's been good to see people come in and test the waters. 

Yeah. I'll, I'll pick up on that. What, what we think we ought to see more of in a second, let's go to your first point. anybody who knows, Joe and I, , know that we're fiercely competitive, , in what we do together.

And, , Joe had a little dig at me there about not doing enough podcasts. , listen, we're going to do lots of podcasts in the future. We've got the technology. We've got the desire, we got really busy, and I did these podcasts, did five of them, and I'm still astonished that I still get phone calls about those podcasts and people asking me questions and doing business on, on the back of those podcasts.

So I'm glad that you, you like them and just to say we're going to do plenty more and, you know, if you have any ideas, please let us know. 

And also do the usual thing, like, and review and share and all that kind of. Joe now, what, let, let's just really look at what we've got and what we haven't got lender wise.

So, in, in very simple terms, what would you consider is straightforward for a, a buyer? And what taxes us, what kind of inquiries tax us do you think, more than any others? Sure. So I think generally speaking, there's not too much that. However, it's when you start stacking different criteria points that it can get really tricky.

So, by that, what are most lenders looking for? 

Where they're looking for you to be a residential homeowner. Already they're looking for a level of earned income. Varies from lender to lender, but generally 20 to 40,000 pounds over that you're going to be in with a good pool of lenders. Good clean credit history.

And then the, the property you are looking at, really, the more standard the better. You know, if you could live in it as a home, typical brick and tile, construction, whatever it might be in an area where there's a demand for holiday letter, but there's also a demand for residential that is going to be your most straightforward case.

Right? And the higher the deposit the better, basically. Right? Right. So where does the customer stroke us struggle? So the, the first one that springs to mind is really anything with any usage or occupancy restrictions. And by that I mean anything in the, the legal side of the property that restricts how you can use that property.

Yeah, it sounds a bit weird to say it, but even something that can only be used as a holiday. Makes it harder to get holiday letting. , and that's I think predominantly because lenders asse the worst of people. They assess they're going to have to repossess properties and they want stuff they can sell on quickly to as wide an audience as possible.

So there's still more lenders can do, I think, to get good at proper true holiday led properties, and, and that leads on to an idea about construction as well. Okay, it's more and more properties getting built with these modern methods of cons, and I think lenders can do more to understand and, and be on top of that side of things too.

Okay. Can I just throw the limited company holiday lap ball into the park now? So this is a, an area that we constantly get asked people to assess that it's the right thing to do and in many cases it is. In some cases it's not a limited company holiday. Let, , what we can't do and what we won't do, what Joe and I won't do is tell you on this podcast whether it's better to do a limited company holiday.

Let, because every circumstance is different. And to be frank with you, it's not an area where we are comfort. Or regulated to advise on that is a real accountancy matter. So you need a good accountant to talk you through with that, the one general point I'd like to make, and I'll let Joe come in a second, the one general point I'd like to make about limited company holiday lets, is that you are narrowing your field of lenders right down to perhaps two or three. So, all those other criteria points that Joe then talked about, sometimes they will make the thing fall. So, Joe Limited company holiday, that's what's your impression? 

Yeah, it's, it's funny, like you say, it's very important to get that proper specialist property tax advice up front.

I think, you know, they will be able to talk to you about your longer-term strategy, because if you want to move anything from a limited company to an individual name or vice versa, there's a whole lot of complications that come with that further down the line. So, I think getting that tax advice, understanding on what your long-term play is and doing it right from day one is, is the most important thing. 

Now, that said, I still don't think there are enough lenders doing the, the limited company holiday le offering. Great. It still is, still is rather specialist in that regard and that restricts things and can make things harder and or, or more expensive potentially, depending on circumstances.

So, yeah, I'd agree that's definitely an area that, that we'd like to see some innovation and development in from, from lenders. , yeah, and, and likewise, you know, lending north of the border in Scotland, yeah, that's, that's something that only a handful of lenders do, and a number of the really good holiday let lenders don't do. So actually look into, to lend across the whole of the UK I think would be really beneficial for, for people as well.

Maybe we'll talk about regulation and change of rules that have come into place in Scotland and Wales and, And how that might affect things too. Yeah, and I just, I think I'd like to finish on the, the holiday limited company holiday that we said, get an accountant, make sure it's an accountant that understands the whole holiday, let scene.

You wouldn't take your brand new electric car to a Backstreet garage for a service, just as a, I wouldn't want you to go to a bookkeeper. Nothing wrong with bookkeeper of course, but I wouldn't want you to go to a bookkeeper to get advice about tax breaks on, on limited company holiday nets. Use a specialist please.

It really does help. Joe let's move on. Let's talk about city breaks, cause I certainly get many more inquiries now about, towns that you think lenders might not help in , the rise of the city break. What do you think about that, Joe? Yeah, a little bit like you. It's, I don’t know if it's because, you know, you have more traditional holiday lit areas are, are sort of full of, of holiday, lets now, but there's definitely been arising in the inquiries we've seen around these city based properties, you know, Liverpool's, Manchester's, Nottinghams, , these have all come up recently and, and for, for different reasons, different attractions in those locations. And I think the good thing is that lenders are starting to get it. I think they could still better, but there are a few out there that if you go with the justification as to why you are looking at a certain area, they're starting to get better at, at understanding that.

Yeah. Actually, for a, for a short-term break, these are attractive places and they can do some really good numbers and. And work for people. Yeah, I was asked to do a holiday let in Port Talbot in Wales. Now my geography goes back a long way and I think of Port Tolbert as being a steel making town, and I didn't really understand.

Why someone would want to do a holiday night in Port Talbot. How wrong was I? Port Talbot is indeed the, mountain biking capital of Wales, if you like. So it was a very, very good reason for wanting to go to Port Talbot. And, we've been asked for Stoke on Trent, , and there's nothing wrong with Stoke on Trent. They made some fine pottery in their day, but Stoke on Trent is all about Alton Towers and the Peak District. So as Joe said, I think the lenders are getting it too, sometimes the calculations don’t. They don't quite marry up in the fact that we're looking for a low, medium and high season. 10 weeks, 10 weeks low, 10 weeks medium, 10 weeks high.

And a lot of these places are weakened in, in what they do. But they are so successful that, you know, it, it will work, , for the right place. I think you make an interesting point there as well, just to, just to jump in on that, is actually, you know, finding a, a holiday lesson agent that understands that area.

Yeah. Sometimes that is that real specialist view of a local area could be really, really important to getting a clear understanding up front of the numbers of properties going to achieve, which is, you know, important to, to you as an investor, but equally important to reflecting it correctly to a lender when putting an application forward.

Can I, Can I ask you about London? Joe, what's your thought? What you’re thinking about London? 

Yeah. London is one you've got to be careful on, isn't it? Because now why is that? Well, you've got a, a 90-day restriction generally speaking in, in letting out short-term properties throughout, throughout a year.

Most, most places, without licensing, without the right rules and agreements in place, you are looking at a maxim of 90 days. So obviously that needs to come into account and. Play on the fact that lenders are going to look at that upfront as well, so, Yeah. And the, and the other thing I think with London and a lot of the cities, London, equal flat, flat, equal lease, lease, sometimes equal, not available, not allowable for holiday, let lending.

So if you're thinking of doing that in a city or a town or anything with leasehold, please do check that your lease, , will allow holiday net because we come across this time and time again. Lots of leases won't even - the Devons and the Cornwalls of this world as well. Yeah. That's an area that people really can save themselves a lot of time and money on if they are looking to buy something, is getting the vendor to, to dig out that lease and actually looking to see if, if  is permitted or, or not, as it, as it might be.

Sure. And, and Joe just talk, let's talk about areas for a second. Where are you seeing at the moment? What, where are your inquiries coming from or. Well, yeah, I think that the city break has obviously meant that perhaps there's more of a, a year-round capability of letting that property. And I think we've actually seen that outside of cities as well.

You know, there's the Yorkshires, the Northumberlands, and the Norfolks, which have really cropped up on, on my inquiry radar quite a lot recently. Yeah. Because, you know, they've still got that, that summer attraction. But equally the rambling holiday, the walking holiday, that can be done all year round and it.

Attracts a little bit of a different demographic to your traditional seaside location. Yep. Yeah, I'm just in, I'm looking at one in Windsor as we speak, so, you know, goes along with what you're saying. Right. Let's get a little bit boring just for a second. , regulation Wales and Scotland. Let's make this as juicy and nice as we can.

what's going on in Wales and Scotland? Yeah. Okay. Well, I think to make this as timeless as possible, I think the key takeaway for people is that, wherever you are looking, go and really understand what is allowed in that area. Be it national regulation or be it local council regulation, you know, council tax in, in Wales, on, on second homes and properties of that nature is, is doubled for example, recently, and I think, you know, restrictions are out there that might not have been there before. So, without getting too specific into to individual areas, really do your homework on anything you're looking to invest in and understand. Ultimately, what can I do? What can't I do, and what are the costs that are going to be associated with it?

But it is an area I think that is potentially regulation's going to be an ongoing issue and regulation is not always bad. Ladies and gentlemen. Got a lovely customer in Norfolk who says is the best thing to happen because there are too many people who have second homes playing at letting them, and they don't have the correct co2 monitors, they don't have the correct fire hazard safety hazards and all that, that kind of stuff in, in the properties. And they are basically downgrading the people who are doing it properly. So, regulation's not always bad. I think that's interesting cause I think, you know, there has been press around second homes and, and the benefit or not of second homes.

And I think to some degree this will be a kind of self-regulating market in the fact that it'll be the people who are doing it well and properly and really understanding their target audience and, and catering their property out for that, that get the success and get the continued business. And to some degree, if people are dabbling at this they, they will fade away and those properties will, will come back.

Conversely though, I think a lot of the, the negative press around second. Most of these second homes that, that I see certainly wouldn't be suitable for first time buyers. So, I think there is a lot of noise in this area around these clogging up property markets. And actually I think there needs to be more done to, to build new homes for, for local residents and more done to encourage employment and opportunities in these areas rather than just looking at second homes as a, as a bad thing. Yeah, no, I, I agree entirely. Alright, let's just, start to wrap up, Joe, let me just get you to put your, your fortune teller hat on, where are we going?

What's, what, what do the customers want? What do you think will happen? What do we want? 

Yeah, I think I kind of foresee this being a fairly steady near future. I think it's one of those that I think good holiday lets will continue to do well. And I do think there will continue to be a demand for holiday letting in, in the UK especially whilst there is that, that cost of living crisis, you know, people do need a break. They do need to get away from, from work and everyday life. So, perhaps that makes the UK break more attractive for the, for the time being. I think on a lending point of view, we're probably going to see a bit of stability, and actually we're going to see, you know, lenders just monitoring what's going on. There's still a good range of products out there, albeit a little bit more expensive than it, than it was before. , so yeah, it'll be one that I think is, I'm still seeing enough inquiries anyway, to, to suggest that this is going to be a good year.

And, and as we're hearing from letting agents with booking figures up, Hopefully that that continues. Yeah, I, I, I always ask the lenders, we obviously, Joe and I work very closely with these lenders now, and we know them very, very well. And I always ask them, have they got any trouble with their book, their holiday let book?

And the answer is always no. They're always performing really, really well, the properties are, the lenders are cautious. That's, that's the nature of the beast. But they are telling us that. Their book is good. Okay, well I hope that's been useful. That's the first, apology net podcast for a while. , we're just going to going to get into the groove with now and do, do a lot more of these. And do get in touch, do ask us questions, and much more content coming shortly. Thank you.