Origen Air Tackles Indoor Air Quality

3:30 - Paige: We started working with our first investors this year, so instead of doing as much as we could with very little funding, we're now really able to develop the bioluminescent system that we're using for our fully non-toxic, biodegradable light wand. We have a lab we're working out of, are developing different colours, making them brighter and longer lasting. We'll be launching a bright yellow colour in the new year.

6:20 - Paige: The lumi is a reusable, rechargeable glowstick alternative that lights up after charging it in the sunshine.

7:05 - Paige: Selling the lumi on their online store. Have some distribution talks as well. 

8:05 - Paige: The original idea was to make a glow stick that was fully non-toxic and biodegradable. 

8:45 - Paige: All next year will be really dedicated towards testing the product with customers and getting feedback and doing further product development. Part of that is to set up case and pilot studies with different industries we're interested in. So we're setting up a search and rescue pilot study.

9:30 - Paige: The first key use of the light wand in the marine industry is for safety. They're often attached to life jackets. The second key use is as a fishing lure.There are certain types of fish that are attracted to light under water and will swim towards it. Larger fish and sea animals like dolphins and whales have proven to be deterred by the light so using these lights is also a really efficient way to mitigate by-catch. 

16:00 - Paige: That is something I would say to anyone who is starting out in business or looking to become a founder - that prototype, having that prototype in hand made all the difference. Then people could see and believe in and rally around the product. And some of the media from that and the proof that it was possible. Our team came together because of some of the media that came at that time. 

21:15 - Paige: Getting our first investors has been incredible, we've been working with this firm called Indie Bio and they've been amazing. They invest in biotech companies. They've changed the level of company that we are. Looking at those long legal documents is scary and you feel the pressure and the weight of those expectations. Sometimes leveling up can bring down your confidence because you're now operating on a new level but you are probably doing a good job if you're leveling up and if good things keep happening. In terms of good things happening there have been lots. Someone from Nasa's jet propulsion lab got in touch with us and wanted to try out the bioluminescent formula we've been working in one of their experiments and I almost fell over. They are one of the biggest applied science organizations in the world. When things like that happen, the unexpected things that land on our doorstep, that's when I'm reminded that what we do could really impact a lot of people.  

24:00 - Paige: The Canadian federal government creating legislation that limits the use of single-use plastics really is significant in terms of supporting up and coming companies that are trying to make new and more sustainable products. Bands like these are really important to pushing the needle so that more sustainable products can become the norm. We've looked into what it would take to get single-use glowsticks banned and basically what we've seen across the board is that for an item to be considered up for being banned there needs to be a demonstrated, widely available, commercially viable alternative. So we aren't there just yet but we're working towards that. The price, as we move forward, will be competitive with conventional glowsticks and as that happens, applying for a ban is definitely on our radar. 

26:00 - Paige: One of the issues we've had is finding manufacturers who will work with these new biodegradable materials, and so if plastic items really are being banned then industries will have to shift towards working with some of these materials that are more sustainable. So seeing governments take strong and impactful moves to ban things is so needed.

27:00 - Paige: I know that one of the core challenges in the environmental movement is the balance of individual responsibility and systemic/government responsibility. So I see things like bans as being an amazing reminder that they are being pushed forward by individuals. There was such a melancholy wave of, you know, sure, we're banning plastic bags but what does that really do. But honestly, it's one step at a time and I just really respect everyone who worked on that because it does take collective and concerted work to make these kinds of changes happen.

28:30 - Paige: In the next 6 months we're fully launching our light wand for the first time ever and it's been such a labour of love, years and years in the making, and then on the business development side we'll be working on our seed round. Starting in mid-October I'll be focused on starting our seed round.

5:20 - Francis: Metaspectral is deploying its technology into a variety of industries, including defense, space, recycling and agriculture. At the core the technology is much the same but just need to do some integration. Metaspectral can detect that there's an object floating on water, for example, and can determine what that object is made out of. In agriculture, we're able to detect how plants react to different types of pesticides which enables us to measure the rate of disease in plants. 

7:40 - Francis: We went through a pivot when we started the company, initially the concept for Metaspectral was that we would use machine learning to compress data more efficiently. But then realized that there was a greater value proposition for tackling data with more depth to it - we had more value to add than just traditional imaging. 

 10:00 - Francis: We recycle only 9% of the plastics we use in Canada and the Government of Canada has set ambitious goals of achieving 75% diversion from landfills. So going from 9% to 75% we need to have a lot of innovation in terms of recycling capacity. Part of it has to do with increasing demand for recycled material but part of it also has to do with making the supply better and higher quality. The government has passed a draft law relating to the market for recycled plastics, so now plastics producers will be required to include a certain amount of recycled plastics in their products.

13:30 - Francis: The recycling plant we're working with is quite automated, but there is still 30% contamination, meaning that 30% of material that is not supposed to be there. And that is the issue that we're trying to solve.

14:25 - Francis: There are a few other players that we're aware of who operate in the recycling automation space. At least one other in Canada, a few in The States, some in Europe as well. But we believe that we're complementary to those. The others on the market focus on automating the tasks that a human can do. Whereas we are really trying to sort beyond what a human can do or existing machinery can do. That doesn't mean you don't need those other machines on the market.  

17:20 - Francis: We are very optimistic about the recycling market because we think that what we can do is really unique and very valuable. It is also lower maintenance from a sales standpoint compared to servicing the defense industry, for example.  

21:00 - Francis: Public policy is really important to creating a stable market for recycled plastics. The whole recycling industry had a really hard time in 2016 when gas prices dropped super low because it suddenly meant that the economic benefit to using recycled plastics was inverse. So regulation, like requiring that people use a certain amount of recycled plastics in their products, is really important. Landfilling is so much cheaper than recycling which means that the recycling industry will always require some amount of policy to help bolster it against the cheapness of virgin plastics production and landfilling.

8:12 - Arman: Building codes are moving towards being very software centric, meaning if you want to get your building in compliance with codes you need to use a variety of software tools. This is common practice for many construction industry professionals but for energy, this is new. So there is this significant need for software that can make innovation in the building sector possible, primarily focused on building efficiency.

9:35 - Arman: Our focus right now is to make it really easy for builders, renovators, home owners, etc. to get an idea of how their home is performing and how they could make it more energy efficient. 

10:10 - Arman: Over the last few years, this has turned into a very beneficial service with information about costing, carbon data, and lots of building technologies and assemblies.

11:30 - Arman: Buildings are one of the most important areas that we need to all be focusing on from a carbon emissions reduction standpoint. Breakthrough Energy Ventures, which is a body trying to make macro-level change in the climate, looked at the five biggest sectoral challenges in the climate fight and those are manufacturing, transportation, electricity, agriculture and buildings and the only sector that had an easier time transitioning to the greener economy is buildings and that's because with buildings, you're already saving money when you're greening your building. And this concept is called the green premium. If you want to make a product in a greener fashion you might have to pay 10 or 20% more but for buildings, we're already past that threshold. For buildings, it is already more cost effective to improve energy efficiency in buildings than it is to leave them as they are. The real challenge isn't the technologies or the economics of the situation - it is the market perception and the inertia of the market. Very often when I talk about these things with educational partners I really feel that I'm trying to sell a website to people who don't know what a computer is. You have to first explain to them what the technology is. And it might not create that lightbulb moment in the first interaction. The conversation is continuous. We really need to start normalizing the fact that energy efficient buildings aren't here because we just haven't done it yet. 

14:45 - Tony: Trying to change the minds of engineers and builders around the world to trust plastic, and especially recycled plastic, instead of always using concrete or brick, that is difficult. Education ends up reducing cost. But it is also my greatest challenge right now. 

19:55 - Arman: A lot of people look at something like the Canadian Greener Homes Grant and see just $5000 but what I see is intent and one more tool that we can have in our toolbox to make homes more energy efficient. And that can really change things. One of the major factors in any new build is, how much is this going to cost. And every little bit really counts. You will not only see reduced energy costs with a retrofit but you will see an increase in the value of the home, for example. When the housing market is also so intense, these sorts of grants really start to make a difference in peoples' calculation of whether to invest in changes to improve efficiency. 

06:28 - Sofie: Definition of the Valley of Death from Investopedia. The death valley curve is the span of time from the moment it receives its initial capital contribution until it starts generating revenue. This period of time can be really challenging for the business because their business model remains largely unproven because they haven't yet begun earning revenue. 

7:50 - Cec: First learned about the Valley of Death around 2001 just after the Dot Com bust. Cec was the E-Business Evangelist for PWC.

8:40 - Peter: I call it the cash runway. Peter learned about it the hard way through the first company he started. We were funded as needed - as we needed cash we would make a cash call until that changed. The first law of entrepreneurship is: don't run out of cash. This form of raising funds has its advantages but it's high risk.

10:35 - Rich: Well, I would just call the valley of death: 'startups'. It's the problem of scarcity. There are never enough customers, there's never enough investment runway. First time I was really exposed to it was with an Alacrity portfolio company in 2015 that was in mobile data and telecoms. They had built really interesting tech and had one paying customer but not enough for customers to cover the monthly bills. It was a really challenging time and in the end the company was able to really dig in to a good marketing strategy and get some investors to stick it out and it sold three years later for $40M. But it was really rough there for a while and we were having conversations about how to sell the desk chairs and computers. 

12:40 - Rich: There are so many factors at play when a company ends up in this situation and of course there is some element of luck. I do always say 'the harder I work the luckier I get' but of course I know, as well as anyone else, that sometimes things happen out of one's control. 

15:10 - Peter: The Valley of Death is where entrepreneurs really show their grit and resilience. Peter tells the story of a company that he led, they were struggling to raise money and were running out of money. 

17:25 - Peter: Right before the company I was running ran out of money, like 48 hours before, we managed to sell for 10X. I think the bottom line is entrepreneurial team resilience, creativity and desperation to get you through these valleys of death. 

18:20 - Cec: I don't think a lot of founders think about the valley of death or understand that it's coming. So one thing that can help is just understanding that you're going to go through it. Find a mentor or advisor to help you through these sorts of times as a business. 

20:30 - Burak: When you take on an investor you're getting someone who could also be an asset to the company. Who can help guide and support you. Money on its own doesn't mean a lot because when money comes with the right know-how, the right networks, it is a completely different thing. Not every investor is the right fit for your company. 

22:45 - Rich: Don't be afraid to make the pivot. Every successful company we've worked with has changed what they're doing at some point in the game. They've never built the exact idea from day one. So we try to tell people not to get too caught up in their own assumptions. Also a boring note, is just to have your proper due diligence materials ready. If you're a founder listening to this and you don't know what a data room is you need to stop this podcast and find out how to set one up, because you need to be able to move quickly and if you don't have a data room set-up that is going to become a massive headache that can be largely avoided by taking the right steps early on. 

24:20 - Cec: Get an audit. Right out of the gate. Because when you do get a serious investor later on you might end up having to backtrack and get years audited retroactively. 

25:25 - Rich: The point when you don't get out of the death valley is when everyone has given up. That's when it's all over. And we've seen founders run on fumes for months and months still trying to pull out of that but sometimes it doesn't work and that's the end of the story. 

26:00 - Rich: Our goal is to prepare the companies so that they don't actually land in the death valley. Helping land customers, do deals, build revenues, we like to help with the investor side - helping build pitch decks and providing intros to investors who might be a fit for the companies - and then further work on financial models and different projections and activities to try to make sure the company has a good plan in place so they aren't just driving straight off a cliff. 

28:35 - Burak: We provide our portfolio companies with a good amount of communication and marketing support which can really help these companies that sometimes need an educated outside perspective. We also help them see alternative options for their products and services, or also help with investment decks and being prepared for the right investors. Our work is quite tailored. We tailor a custom suit for all the companies according to their needs and have been really successful at this so far. 

30:50 - Cec: Because Alacrity is really well informed regarding government programs and funding, Alacrity has really helped some of its portfolio companies to access government funding which is incredible useful to these companies. My comment on realizing when you're at risk of not emerging from the valley of death is when you see the company starting to try to use their accounts payable to get through a period of time. If you're not sure you've got money coming in then that's a huge issue. If you're using your suppliers to get you through a period of time. 

31:55 - Peter: This might sound counterintuitive but the entrepreneur/founder has got to be the last person to know. They have to fight and claw and ignore reality to try to persevere. Every startup goes through nightmares and pivots so you really have to have resilience. I think in some ways you have to have a reality distortion experience where you don't see what is actually obvious to everybody else. You can't be a shrinking violet. And it doesn't always work. But I think the entrepreneur is the last one to know when it's all over. The other thing is that as you closer to the valley of death, or the end of the valley, you get more and more desperate and you'll take a worse deal from an investor. We've helped companies out of that scenario, we've helped them see the full scope of options in front of them and helped them get the best and fairest deal possible, and we can help these companies because we've been there ourselves throughout our careers.  

34:40 - Peter: Try to get early validation and interest from customers. If you can test your ideas early with a customer then you've got that positive input and you'll have an easier time getting investors on board. If you have those early proof points of your idea with customers, even if it's conditional. Where they say, if your thing can do A, B and C then I'll buy it. So I guess, early customer engagement and validation.

35:30 - Rich: Build a strong and resilient business that doesn't rely just on investor capital. When you're building your plans you want to have a path to the business being able to survive without investor capital. Investment may help scale it up and grow it faster but you don't know what will happen with the economy, investor preferences shift, so a lot will be out of your hands if you're 100% reliant on investors. 

26:30 - Cec: Another thing is you need to focus. Some founders end up being a bit scatterbrained. Focus on one vertical to start. Too many pilots, too many different ideas can be a real threat. Pick a vertical that you understand well and drive it that way.

5:35 - Rich: I think we can all agree now that it's essential to our planet. We know there's a problem that we have to fix and the technology side is just a massive opportunity. As humans we're good at innovating when we have to, and now we have to.   

11:00 - Peter: There is the technology mantra of "move fast and break things" but in cleantech you don't necessarily want to actually have incumbents doing that because in the cleantech industry entrepreneurs are working with technologies and systems that quite literally keep the lights on. So we really need to educate our technology communities so they understand that the customers they are working with are often very risk-averse customers coming up against very disruptive technology. 

12:30 - Peter: I wish investors were more understanding of some of the challenges cleantech companies are up against. This friend of mine said to me, 'Well Peter, to me they've got long development cycles, long sales cycles, lumpy revenue, I wanna run in the other direction'. So I'm looking forward to our investors embracing some of the unique characteristics of cleantech. But customers are facing disruption. So my hope is that customers become aware of that and embrace it. 

13:30 - Peter: One way to make investors feel more attracted to cleantech is  through some de-risking mechanisms. So one thing we promote at Alacrity is pilot funding. Once investors or clients see a project that has been successful in the field the stakeholders then see that a lot of the risk has been removed from the situation. We also really need to help the companies scale up. Very few cleantech solutions are very stand-alone, so there are often multiple actors who need to be coordinated. 

14:50 - Cec: A lot of costs over the years have come down as more actors enter cleantech you get economies of scale. We're also looking for opportunities in industries that we hadn't really previously thought of bringing cleantech into, so there are more solutions being offered by cleantech. And as each segment of the industry grows economies of scale are bringing costs down and making cleantech more competitive with 'old-tech'.

16:20 - Rich: There was a lot of scar tissue left in the investment community after the pain that many early cleantech investors experienced in the early aughts as the sector really came into being. So when I started working more seriously in cleantech in 2015/2016 none of the investors really wanted to talk about it. But that has really changed. It still is predominantly courageous investors taking the big risks, but I think if we look back on this time we'll see that there were some amazing returns achieved. 

18:30 - Burak: This plastic fund that we helped implement at the start of this year really helped to create commercial value especially in small communities. And that is really one of the key benefits of cleantech and of our program. The capacity it has to generate really high value jobs across geographic and economic regions.

22:20 - Peter: In the mid-2000s there was the Tech Wreck and a lot of investors flooded to cleantech. But cleantech generally speaking turned out to be much more complicated to implement than those investors thought. It turns our that integration and adoption for cleantech is quite difficult. 

24:50 - Rich: Cleantech is actually very measurable. So you can't fake it in cleantech and that's something people need to get over a bit. It's also important that people have ways to demonstrate and pilot their technology using funding, especially government funding, because if you don't do it in real life in the real environment then you'll always lack credibility. So you need to see these technologies and projects actually working, especially the bigger customers. They can't just depend on what worked in another area of the world.

26:50 - Peter: The biggest threat to cleantech is execution risk. It's back to that customer unhappiness. These are conservative customers and if you stumble, they're not coming back. 

28:50 - Rich: The biggest threat to cleantech is the status quo. If people aren't forced to make changes sometimes they don't. But if there's continued risk aversion and lack of funding at an investor level and government level then that's the biggest threat to the industry growing in a meaningful way.

31:30 - Cec: Really understanding their product and their market. Really to succeed you need to spend more time up front really understanding who your early adopters are. How you're going to get your product to market to prove and showcase what you do.

33:50 - Peter: The vast majority of customers are not easy adopters. They need to have an easy path to adoption.

33:30 - Rich: I would say that commercialization, marketing and sales are the biggest issues. And the things that we need to get right more often in order to succeed. Part of that is because a lot of these cleantech companies are really heavy technology, heavy science companies. But you need to go and find that help and bring in those skills. If 40% or 50% of an organization isn't related to sales and marketing, if 90% of your team is still working on the R&D side then you can assume that you're not going to be growing revenue in a meaningful way. So many companies have amazing technology but it doesn't go anywhere if they aren't able to build meaningful revenue. So I can't say enough how important it is to focus on sales and revenue.

38:25 - Burak: Firstly, you really need to get intercultural communication right, especially when you're looking to start selling on the international stage. Secondly, you need to work on your communication of your value proposition, and thirdly, develop a good sales cycle so you know what customers are asking for. And don't fall in love with your own idea/solution.

4.20 - what stage of raising are each of the guests at?

-dilutive versus non-dilutive funding

-time and effort that goes into raising, especially when it comes to signing the paperwork

-ISED and IRAP funding

-SDTC’s funding program

8.25 - takeaways or learnings?

-how to qualify investors

-what to expect throughout the process

11.00 - closing on a “Safe” (a simple agreement for future equity)

-investment mechanism that’s well suited to early-stage rounds

13.00 - surprises about raising?

C: angel markets in Victoria and Vancouver don’t particularly like the Safe option

J: non-traditional space and complexity of software plus hardware is more challenging for many VCs

D: stage of the company and product market fit, get in the network as early as you can through accelerators

17.40 - the least favourite part about raising? 

J: rejection, but use it as a source of learning

D: it’s like a sales cycle

22.50 - SDTC funding and what to consider when applying 

24.45 - don’t ignore your personal network, they want a good opportunity too

27.00 - get to revenue as fast as you can to appeal to most investors

27.20 - it is a sales cycle and you can create a sense of FOMO, audit the team you’re working with as much as they’re auditing you

29.00 - one thing you wish you had known before raising?

C: at first, we thought we had to tick all the boxes, and answer all the questions that were being asked of us, investor red flag because there are certain things you should be figuring out together as you go

S: hardware/software company and you’re competing against SaaS companies so there’s no way you’re going to be as successful - “comparing oranges to watermelons”

J: if you structure it like a sales process, you’re really setting yourself up for success

33.33 - D: making good business fundamentals, focus on making a good business and get early criticism, speak to industry experts to continue improving your offer

“That awareness [of what problems a company could have] at seed stage, pre-seed stage is key, which many entrepreneurs don’t have, so you separate yourself right away if you do.”

34.19 - Devesh talks about the four types of investors (high net worth individuals, family offices, different types of VCs, and strategic investors)

36.45 - what to do with feedback from investors who aren’t interested

“If you can get away from your ego being hurt by rejection and take everything that you learn from those, you really can get a better product market fit.”

 38.10 - one piece of advice for a fellow entrepreneur at the start of their fundraising journey? What is the critical takeaway? Or an experience with an investor that became an integral part of the business?

S: “What do you want from us, besides the money?” that is a really key question to think about and know the answer to

-be choosy, this is a marriage  

J: "It might feel like you’re the one that’s asking things of people, you’re the one that’s begging for money, but that’s not really the way you should look at it..." -offering something that has tremendous value

Grit is needed to be an entrepreneur and grit will be needed throughout your investor journey as well. 

C: Two-fold. One: It’s never too early to build a clean data room. Makes the investor’s job easier. Two: Find your lead. The lead investor can host other investors.

D: lots of articles to learn from, starting as early as possible for data room, it’s truly never too early

-make sure you’re focusing on your business fundamentals

-get some indication of revenue, of customers using it, the more you can do that, the better your fundraising process will be

1.30 - how David began his career in the cleantech industry back in 2007, talking with a electrical engineer about wind turbines and solar panels at his daughter’s school

3.30 - the uniqueness of the cleantech sector and its disruptive nature and the culmination of many technologies that are coming to fruition (batteries, solar power, grids, etc.)

-how digitalization is clearly fundamental to  enabling much of the innovation that's going on

4.10 - disruption in cleantech is faster than in other high-growth sectors in the past, which can create challenges for policymakers because things move so quickly in this sector

5.00 - how a decentralized sector, like solar power, impacts policy decisions and strategies

6.20 - the differences that David has noticed through his work between the Canadian cleantech sector and other markets like the UK; a lot of innovation coming out of Canada, but initially companies struggled to find funding outside of the local market, although European VCs and accelerators are now actively engaging with Canadian companies, not just US ones

7.30 - Canadian companies are less internationally focused, or less European-focused because of a massive market on the doorstep, even though European markets, particularly around energy and mobility are quite a lot more advanced than the North American markets

9.08 - how organizations and accelerators like Foresight and Alacrity are supporting startups to grow

11.00 - how GDPR and other regulatory differences from jurisdiction to jurisdiction add another layer of complexity for cleantech companies, even though the opportunities are there

12.40 - thoughts on the next upcoming cleantech sector? Cleantech is quite a broad umbrella, but solar, energy storage and batteries, emobility has really evolved because of this

14.00 - areas that are critical in decarbonizing the world that don’t get much airtime, like buildings and construction and the built environment, smart cities, agritech and foodtech

15.00 - the hydrogen sector, where it currently is and where David thinks it’s going

17.20 - “The technologies exist to achieve what we need to achieve, it’s just about making sure we’re using the right ones in the right place at the right time… and that’s not always straightforward and, as a policymaker, that’s a really tough call.”

18.00 - IPCC report and how policy, industry, and cleantech entrepreneurs are advancing the transition that's needed “The report was both not surprising unfortunately, but was shocking also.” 

-hopeful that the IPCC report is a wake up call that governments will heed 

19.45 - innovation comes from small companies and startups and then it butts heads against policy and traditional industry

20.20 - next critical steps in boosting cleantech adoption around the world? getting out of the cleantech bubble, disconnect between what people know and understand inside of the sector versus outside of it

-consumers need to also understand that these technologies are just better, both from an environmental perspective, but also efficiency-wise and a more educated population about the technologies will help drive policy change

23.40 - recycling, or the lack thereof, with 9% of consumer recycling being recycled

26.00 - plastics also contributing to the problem

26.45 - "We sit at the intersection between technology and entrepreneurship" and more about the Leaders in Cleantech podcast that David hosts

-Peter Van Der Gracht, senior advisor at Alacrity Canada, talks to Gary Agnew of Ideon Technologies about the company's innovative mining solutions

-how cosmic-ray muon technology is similar to x-ray technology

-applying this technology to the exploratory phase of mining as part of the geophysics toolkit

-straight-line imaging technique provides a high degree of certainty in the industry

-technology is focused on displacing drilling, which is expensive to conduct

-base metals and battery metals can be detected by density contrast using this technology

-how does this technology fit within the regulatory framework?

-removing hit-and-miss drilling from projects, cutting costs while increasing certainty

-change management in mining means that a solution has to offer a significant value proposition to create the momentum to make the necessary changes

-direct-to-customer business model with potential for partnerships

-managing through a lot of complexity, providing the customer with a simple solution

-providing "certainty-as-a-service"

-developing an optimized plan with the customer using muon tomography technology to provide better geophysical certainty

-innovation started at TRIUMF physics laboratory at the University of British Columbia in an effort to miniaturize the detection device's form factor

-using muon detectors in archaeological sites; is this a new marketplace for the technology?

-navigating commercialization in a scientific environment like TRIUMF; building a bridge between academia and industry

-how the Canadian ecosystem has played a role in Ideon's growth and development

-providing great environmental benefits and increasing profitability