Poised for Growth

On this episode of The Founder's Sandbox, Brenda speaks with Shashi Triphati. They speak about the purposeful "design driven life", Shashi's personal struggles as an immigrant to the US, the growth and recognition as CIO and as entrepreneur. Learn more about his fund nurture.ventures and their work at TIE SoCal. 

Shashi is a serial entrepreneur, investor, board member and advisor to several companies. His focus areas have been in technology, and healthcare. He has deep experience in healthcare working across hospital, clinics, health plans and life-sciences. He has been awarded CIO 100 by CIO Magazine, Best Patient Engagement Strategy and Medical Design Excellence awards. He is a founder of  nuture.ventures an early stage venture fund which focuses on a broad range of areas including health technology, cyber security, applied artificial intelligence & customer experience.

 

You can find out more about Shashi at:

Linked IN Shashi Tripathi

https://www.linkedin.com/company/nurtureventures/

 

Other resources on this episode include:

TiE SoCal https://tiesocal.org/

February 12 Join TiE SoCal’s event Venture Investment: Strategy and Tactics 

Ralph Waldo Emerson’s poem

 

Show transcription

00:04

Welcome back to the Founders Sandbox. I am Brenda McCabe, your host. The Founders Sandbox is now in its second season. It's a monthly podcast that reaches entrepreneurs and business owners who learn about

 

00:31

building resilient, scalable, and sustainable businesses with great corporate governance. My mission with the Founder Sandbox is to assist entrepreneurs and some entrepreneurs in building those scalable, well-governed, and resilient businesses. And guests that come to the podcast are either founders, business owners, corporate directors, VCs, professional service providers, who like me want to use the power of the enterprise.

 

01:01

be it small, medium or large, to create change for a better world. Through storytelling with each one of my guests on topics that while discovering their own journey, we're gonna touch upon resilience, on purpose driven enterprises and sustainable growth. My goal is to provide a fun sandbox environment where we can equip one startup founder at a time to build that better world through great corporate governance.

 

01:30

Today I'm absolutely delighted to have as my guest, Shashi Tripathi. Thank you Shashi for joining me today. Thank you, Brenda. Good morning. We were just saying that we're not morning people, but we'll do anything to help founders. Yes. Yes, so Shashi's joining the podcast today as founder of Nurture Ventures and board member of the chapter of the TIE SoCal organization.

 

01:59

He could speak to many, many things, but today we're going to hone in on actually purpose-driven design of life. Sashi has an incredible background. He's a serial entrepreneur. He's an investor, board member, and advisor to several companies. His focus areas have been in technology, healthcare. He has deep experience in healthcare.

 

02:27

working across the entire spectrum just blew me away, starting with actually med tech, then to move to hospitals, health plans. And he has been awarded CIO 100 by CIO magazine, best patient engagement strategy, and medical design excellence awards. So it's truly an honor

 

02:56

and incredible breadth as well as depth within the healthcare industry. So again, thank you. Thank you, Brenda. I appreciate it. You know, our paths crossed recently, we joined the SoCal, the TiE SoCals board, and we're in for a fun two years. You possess again, a unique broad and

 

03:22

deep understanding of the healthcare system in the United States. You worked primarily at, or when you first came to the United States in supply chain management, really addressing the large waste issue in the medical sector. You then went on to the hospital side, the payer side, and finally you ventured out and became an entrepreneur and founder where you built and sold

 

03:51

Follow My Health, which was a mobile enterprise patient engagement platform that connects millions of patients to their doctor in a whole new way. I think you said at one time you're touching over 20 million lives. Wow. Well, it's challenging to do you justice in this 40 minute podcast. Let me begin by thanking you again. And then again, I was blown away by your breadth and depth. And I am an avid reader. I Love

 

04:19

Ralph Waldo Emerson. And I thought of this quote that to describe your background, and you're going to share here with my guests today.  "To laugh often and much, to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children, to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends, to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others, to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch,

 

04:49

or a redeemed social condition, (I get all teared up) to know even when life has breathed easier because you live, this is to have succeeded. " So thank you again for joining me. How would you like, would you like to share your arrival to the US in 1999? As an immigrant, how did that inform your entrepreneurship journey? So first of all, Brenda, thank you. What an honor to be here with you, Brenda. You yourself.

 

05:19

are amazingly talented. And I was getting goosebumps by the way, when you were sharing that poem from Ralph, making the world or society a bit better. What a world that is, a bit better. So, coming back to your question, I grew up in India. I did my masters from IIT Bombay.

 

05:48

Immediately after that, I got a job through a company called I2 Technologies and I got to headquarters in Dallas. And I always had dreamed to come to US by the way. Here I am, my dream is getting fulfilled. I get a flight, land in Dallas Fort Worth airport and my manager then was supposed to pick me up and he forgot.

 

06:16

And I'm a 23 year old boy, afraid, nervous, excited internally, but now I'm nervous. What do I do? I had no choice, but just to wait at the airport. And after two and a half hours, he came and he took me to the apartment. Dallas, as we all know, is a big city and it's hard to walk.

 

06:46

I didn't have car, didn't have credit card. Many nights, Brenda, I had only bread and milk as my dinner. And so my company gave a month for this apartment and then after I have to find an apartment, no one will give me apartment. Because I have no credit history. So I went to a bank.

 

07:15

I gave the bank $500 as a restricted deposit, meaning I cannot spend more than $500 to build my history. Right. Slowly, I built my history. I didn't have cell phone. And I did not even know the proper English in the US. So I took a course on accent reduction.

 

07:42

I remember sitting in front of CNN and Fox. And in those days, we didn't have all this gadgets we have today. So I had a thick accent and I will pause and see the word. Wow. So to learn in a hard way about adjusting in US culture and US society. But in some ways, I'm glad it happened to me. Because that made me resilient.

 

08:12

and a strong person. And where I am today, I'm not afraid. And because I've seen the low, what is the lowest I can go, I didn't have a home. I didn't have food. And so it always has instilled in me to fight for it. And things are only going to look upwards. And I think you use the word perseverance and resilience, just one.

 

08:42

step at a time and in a very intentional way, Shashi. I mean, just going in, you know, when I came back, there was, I didn't have credit history. I was living in Europe. So it is the way, it's a difficult market to crack. And so that was 25 years ago. So what made you, what you have a huge passion for healthcare as I've shared with my listeners, starting with life science/med tech and 

 

09:10

going into the hospitals and actually into the payers. It's quite extraordinary. What underlies this passion for healthcare? Thank you, Brenda. I mean, if I look back my childhood, my mom, my dad, and even at the childhood, Brenda, I always had passion to create things. Okay. And I would get immense pleasure if what I have created is used by someone.

 

09:40

And that someone can be a small group, it doesn't need to be big. So that at the childhood level. So when I came here to do my supply chain projects, I got into a company called Medtronic, it's a large medical device company. And then I got a really big exposure to healthcare, learned a lot, found that in US, we spend $2.3 trillion total per year. Out of that,

 

10:10

approximately $800 billion is waste. B. B, not M, is B. And this is per year, this is not one time. And in a very small way, I felt the products or solutions we are creating or designing, if we can make even a small difference in reducing that waste while making an impact to the human life.

 

10:40

why not? And that really solidified my career, my passion to remain in healthcare. And if I wanted to be in healthcare, I wanted to know the details of it and all the angles of healthcare. Right. So while working for Medtronic, I got a lot of exposure to hospitals and clinics.

 

11:04

So I felt if we are selling our product and services to hospital and clinic, I wanna work inside the hospital and clinic. And how did that go? So it went really well. So I joined a group called Facey Medical, which is part of Providence Health and Services and learned a lot by the way, how a patient operates, what's really important to the patient, what is really important to hospital. And

 

11:33

That gave me a lot of exposure and also the appreciation for patient care, by the way. Okay. Because at the end of day, anything we do in healthcare is really important to how it's impacting to the patient's care. Absolutely. Healthcare is the only industry Brenda, where if you improve the quality, you reduce the cost, that's the only industry. If you go in that again, say that again. That's very important.

 

12:01

If you go in hotel, for example, if you buy a five star, you pay more. Am I right? That's right. But in healthcare, you improve the quality. The cost goes down. That's the only industry by the way. It's very fascinating. So learn a lot about the wider side, which is the hospital clinic. And then I said, for all this, that someone is paying and yes, patients pay the portion in The US.

 

12:28

but the health plans are the one which are paying majority of our US healthcare cost. So I said, I need to go to the work for the health plan. And crack the code for CPT codes and all that. Exactly, ICD and CPT and claims. So I went to work for a company called New Century Health and there I learned a lot about risk contracts and how we manage the provider, what is really important to the claims.

 

12:58

how we do the utilization management. So I learned a lot about how the payment system in US healthcare works. So, and then of course the company Follow My Health, I got a lot of exposure about patient side. Right. Because at the end, whatever we are doing, either from life sciences or hospital clinic or health plan.

 

13:28

It's really impacting the patient in the end. So I feel privileged and somewhat lucky, to work in all the facets of health care systems. Affecting patients' lives one by one. Perhaps the most far removed is that of payers. And that was your last venture. And by creating Follow My Health, you create a new life.

 

13:55

removed a bit of that friction, I imagine, for patients and their providers. Right. Yep. Excellent. So when did you have time to do Follow My Health? If you're busy working in these large companies, cracking the code, what changed in your life, if anything, to abandon the helm?

 

14:21

of, you know, working in enterprises to create companies to then become a founder of a venture fund. So walk us through those purposeful decisions that help you design your life. Yeah. So as we look, as I shared with you that I love creating product. Okay. And I love

 

14:47

the product which we are creating is making a difference in human lives. So when I was the CIO at Springfield Clinic, working with Jim Hewitt, we created this platform back in 2011. And the idea was to make it simple to every stakeholder, to the physicians who are using it, to the patients who are going to be using it.

 

15:17 

 and if you make it simple and useful to the stakeholder, money will come. Um, and I remember a story, uh, when I was CIO at a Springfield clinic, uh, I used to walk around and, um, I would sometimes talk to the patient and I talked to a patient who was elderly, probably early seventies or maybe even late eighties, uh, uh, late seventies. Um,

 

15:46

And I asked him, what do you like about us? And he said, oh, I love this new product you guys have launched, Patient Portal. I said, what do you like about it? And he said, when I didn't have this, I go home and my wife will ask me what happened to you at the doctor's office. And I didn't remember all that and she would get mad. Now I've given my user ID and password to her and she knows everything about what happened. So I don't have to memorize it. So that probably gave you goosebumps as well.

 

16:15

Right. So these are the stories which give me extra energy to move forward. Same concept in merlin.net and the patient who has pacemaker or ICD is implanted. Okay. In those days they had to go see their cardiologist every quarter. Okay. So we felt was why don't we create external device.

 

16:44

which can communicate to the implanted device, takes the data, and then over the internet has that data and we build the whole web application for cardiologists and electrophysiologists to monitor the patient. So now patient can be anywhere in the world and they can be monitored. My sister-in-law, by the way, has that product and she often appreciate how beneficial

 

17:13

Merlin.net is because she can go travel anywhere in the world, not worry about her appointment with cardiologists and she is being followed. So these are the moments which makes me propel, gives me extra energy to keep pursuing and creating the products and services which makes a difference in human lives. And what was the, I guess,

 

17:41

point in which you decided to abandon those 16 and 17 hour days and, and you'd exited a few companies. You know, what led you to create nurture ventures and can you walk us through the thesis and does it go back to your passion? Right? Yep. So it always goes back to my passion, which is creating product and helping society and balancing life.

 

18:10

in the process. So I got married. I have two kids, my daughter is 13. My son,, he just turned seven actually on the weekend. We had a party. And we all know, by the way, entrepreneurship life is very hard. Yes. People see the success, they don't see what has happened behind the scene. Yes.

 

18:39

And for any entrepreneur, I mean, yes, there are some exceptions, but I would say majority of the entrepreneur, they work very hard. Um, I would say 16, 17 hours, um, per day is this hard. And so I have kids now and I have to balance my life. Um, but yet I still wanted to achieve my dreams and be associated with the entrepreneurs.

 

19:06

why don't I start investing? And I started very small by the way Brenda. My goal was not to go big really. But again, it goes back to simplicity and not with the goal of making money. So I designed my investment very, very LP friendly. LP is a partner who are investing with me into the companies. And because of that simplicity,

 

19:35

And also just happened to be, I would call it luck. Okay. I got lucky and we got an exit, um, carbon card, which gave us, uh, seven times return in 11 months, but it did happen to us and, uh, some of my LP got money back in their bank, um, so it put our name on pitch book and crunch base and

 

20:04

So we started growing. So we have now 45 limited partners. We have invested in total 31 companies now. We have a fund, we have an SPV. So it has been grown more than I expected. And I'm really happy because now again, I go back, I follow my passion about creating products and services.

 

20:34

which are helping society grow. And I'm doing not directly but indirectly because when we are supporting the founders and they are growing and their product and services are being used in society to make a difference, I feel privileged. Many of our portfolio companies, by the way, started small, $40,000 ARR per year. Now, they are six million ARR just in two years.

 

21:03

Wow. Happiness that we were a small part in making a difference in growing that company and in return, they are making a difference into the society. So that's how I got into this world. I love it, actually. And is the thesis only around healthcare technology companies or is it broader than healthcare? Your passion. So we started healthcare. But in order to make a difference.

 

21:31

You have to also see what is other things which are impacting and growing. And part of our early thesis was artificial intelligence, software as a service, and financial technologies in addition to healthcare are growing very rapidly and much needed into society and making a difference in human lives. So those are part of our thesis to invest in those four areas.

 

22:01

artificial intelligence, software as a service, healthcare, and fintech. Excellent. Now, you are also a member of the Angel Capital Association, ACA, and we recruited you from TIE SoCal to join our chapter in SoCal. You also have become a board member for the 2024-2025.

 

22:29

period, we both have joined the board after the effusive leadership of Gaurav Kumar.

 

22:38

What would you, I'm going to describe a little bit, TIE, as a nonprofit organization for my listeners. And then I'll get to the question of what your contributions are going to be and how it goes back to your passion. So the Indus Entrepreneurs, TIE T-I-E, was founded in 1992 in Silicon Valley by a group of successful entrepreneurs with roots in the Indus region with a mission to foster entrepreneurship.

 

23:07

globally through funding, mentoring, networking, and education. Today, the TIE ecosystem comprises over 25,000 startups and 15,000 members across 58 chapters in 12 countries. Within TIE, there is an angels organization for profit. It started in 2010, also in Silicon Valley, and has moved into another eight to 10 chapters.

 

23:36

representing groups of angel investors. And they're in actually 12 cities with over 3,000 accredited investors. Last year in PitchBook, actually TIE SoCal was among the top 10 in the number of companies that we had invested in. So what's it gonna be like with your presence on the board? And what have you been tasked to do, Shashi?

 

24:05

My God, what an incredible honor to join this group as you described how powerful the TIE is, but more than power, the impact it continues to make in society across those 50 chapters. As you pointed out, Gaurav Kumar, such a strong leader, and I'm beyond privileged to work with you and others

 

24:35

to take TIE SoCal to the new heights. Part of TIE SoCal, I have been tasked to lead what we call it TIE Angel Program. Okay. And it basically has three areas within the Angel side. Bring the companies to our members. Okay.

 

25:06

So they can choose to invest into those companies. The second vertical is we do events very focused on investment, venture capital, or angel investing. And third is having a fund which relates to the first one and take the fund and go invest into the companies.

 

25:35

catering the entrepreneurship journey and entrepreneurship society. Part of this, by the way, Brenda, we are hosting an event on February 12th, which is Monday, Hyatt at Long Beach, from 3.30 to 8.30. And it's a wonderful group of speakers which are coming and talking about venture capital

 

26:05

strategies and tactics. And then we have our flagship event, which is scheduled on Friday, April 26th, again in Hyatt Regency. It's a full day event, and will be roughly attended by 400 venture capital, angel investor, startup. If you are any one of those, this is not to miss the event.

 

26:34

And you do not have to be a member of the TIE SoCal organization. So anyone can attend either of those events, by the way. February 12, which is Monday, 3.30 to 8.30, and April 26, all day, big event, our flagship event, hosted by TIE, but anyone who belongs to those communities. So either investors, a startup, 

 

27:03

or you're supporting any one of those. So you can be service providers. Do not miss any of these two events. I'm very excited to be part of TiE SOCAL and continue to work with intelligent minds like you and others to make a difference in our society. It's going to be an exciting next two years. And I...

 

27:31

want to share with my listeners, there's a lot of nuggets in the podcast today with Shashi. And so there'll be more information in the show notes with respect to Nurture Ventures, Shashi himself, TIE SoCal, and the upcoming events on February 12th and April 26th. So thank you for leading the charge there. Thank you, Brenda.

 

27:56

You know, 1999, we're in 2024. It's going to be your 25th anniversary, Shashi, in the United States. I was doing the math yesterday. I went, wow, that's a major, what are you going to do? You've done everything. All right. Oh my God. I'm getting goosebumps right now. My gosh. I'm now thinking about my day when I arrived in Dallas Fort Worth airport. Right.

 

28:25

I'm nervous. I didn't know where my life will be, but Brenda, I'm so, I'm really in debt of this country. This country is so powerful. If you're willing to work, that's the key word. If you're willing to work, this country is powerful. And there's so many good people. I often hear that, oh, people don't support and help. That's not the experience I have had here.

 

28:54

Nor has it been mine. I met some incredible people who have helped me to grow my career, who have helped me when people were saying, don't do that. You are crazy. Don't start a company. But there were at the same time, there were many who were there to support me. My family, of course, they endured me so much. All my craziness and.

 

29:21

all my travel across US and beyond. My parents, I remember my dad, by the way, who I lost here. Sorry. Thank you. He did not want me to come here. Oh my. His goal was that in India, there's a government job, I should go and work into that area. And I end up not. But when I came here, he was the biggest supporter.

 

29:51

my mom, my wife here, my two kids, and all those who have supported me throughout my career in the last 25 years. I am in debt to so many people I cannot name all of them here on this podcast. Well, thank you. Those are really beautiful words. And you continue to be that young child that wanted to create.

 

30:20

products that affect people's lives. That's quite laudable. You know, I like to do a round of questions with each one of my guests. I go back to the cornerstones of the consulting work I do at Next Act Advisors. I work with scaling companies on resilience, on sustainable growth.

 

30:47

purpose-driven. And I ask my guests, you know, what are the meanings of those three words? And that one guest has a similar definition. There's no right or wrong. It's just fascinating. And with your broad and deep expertise in the ecosystem of healthcare and also early stage companies and large, what would you consider? What would you define? What would be your definition of resilience Shashi?

 

31:15

So in my view, don't give up if you have a passion for something. You will encounter the reality of the life is you will encounter challenges. You will encounter problems. Do not give up on it. There is going to be people.

 

31:39

who will tell you, you are crazy, don't do that, this is wrong, but at the same time, there will be people who will support you and will root for you. And even if you don't, by the way, believe in you. Believe in you if you wanna do something and go change the world. That's what resiliency to me means. I often do this Brenda and I don't share much when I start to do something new.

 

32:08

I always plan a worst case plan in my brain. Okay. I always think, I'm going to create a company, for example, how low I can go. I lose my phone, lose my car. That's fine. I'll manage it. We've all been there. Yeah, exactly. So if you in your mind, if you have planned the worst case scenario, I'm not suggesting go do it, but just plan it to give a feeling in your head that that's the lowest possibility that always helps you.

 

32:38

So coming into challenges and problems, other thing I often say is when you hit the wall, go deep. And we all hit the wall in our personal life, in professional life. Don't give up, go deep. Find it out what elements, what detail elements which are letting you hit the wall.

 

33:07

And once you figure those details, you, our brains are so powerful. We just have to access those elements of our brain to go deep, find the solution. And I can say it with very high confidence. If you believe in you and try to find a problem, you will find the solution to the problem. And that's what it means. Powerful. Hit the wall. Go deep. You heard it here on The Founders.

 

33:37

Sandbox. What about purpose-driven enterprise? You have a purpose-driven design to your life. What about purpose-driven enterprises? Yeah, so I often say this also. When you are designing a product, solution, or enterprise, don't make money as your primary objective. And I'm not saying don't be financially conscious, by the way. Your primary goal should not be making money.

 

34:08

If your primary goal is to make a difference in human lives, if your primary goal is to make a product and services, which people will buy and will help improve their life or their experience or their feelings, believe me, money will come. That's true. So when you're designing product or running a company, think from those aspects. Who is your customer?

 

34:38

and what is making them to delight your customer. And if you take customer or consumer or your end user, trying to design your product and solution and business processes also, by the way, money will follow to you. And that's purpose to me because if you have that in mind, you will sustain on a long-term basis. 

 

35:06

Which leads us to the definition for you of sustainable growth, right? Yeah, so to me, sustainable growth is how you are growing without adding the debt and liability in your company. So most people can go get a debt, get liability and not think too much about the long-term growth, not think too much about

 

35:34

improving the value into society, that will not be sustainable growth. Sustainable growth in my view is

 

35:44

the value you have created for society, the value you have created for your customers, for your end users, how they are driving you to grow. And if they are, money will come and there will be VCs and there will be investors who will give you money, but not just go acquire the money and start to grow, not other way around. Grow first. Take all those...

 

36:14

stakeholder into the mix first. Yes. And then go look for venture or money to grow the company. That's how sustainable you can be, in my view, Sinder. So self-funding until you do have product market fit and continue to innovate. And the money will come if you're addressing the needs. Correct. Yep. Excellent. Keep customer and end user in the mind. Society also sometimes.

 

36:43

enterprises think, oh, I'm spending this for the benefit of society and it's going into taking away from my Point of view. Not the case. I mean, if you add value to society, at the end of day, who is the user of your product and services society? Society. We all, we human beings, we are using your product and services. And if we see that

 

37:12

you care about me, believe me, I will spend money because I know that in return, you're going to care for me on a long-term basis. And if you can get into the hearts and parts of the people through your product and services, it's very hard to go back. You will grow. I will come to you asking, Hey, what is your next product? Because I believe in you.

 

37:41

Did you have fun in the sandbox today? I loved it. Brenda, thank you so much for having me here. It's just exciting and amazing. And what an incredible work you are doing, Brenda. Thank you. By inviting people to your show where we all can learn from each other. Yes. Seen some of your podcasts in the past, and I can learn. And hopefully, through this, someone can learn. And even if we can make a difference in

 

38:11

one human life. I think we have done our job. So thank you Brenda and the work you are doing is amazing. Any help I can do, I'll be happy to do so. I'll see you in the sandbox at the TIe Socals board soon. Busy year. Well, thank you. It's been an incredibly fun and insightful podcast. To my listeners. If you like this episode.

 

38:40

with Shashi Tripathi. Sign up for the monthly release where founders and business owners join me here in the sandbox to learn about how and share how to build strong governance in a resilient, scalable, and purpose-driven company to make profits for good. You can listen to this episode and more on any of the mainstream podcasts, platforms, and

 

39:10

I look forward to next month. Again, this is the monthly podcast. I'm signing off until next time. Thank you, Shashi.

 

On this episode of The Founder's Sandbox, Brenda speaks with Oscar Neyra, CEO and founder of Lisus Energy, about building a sustainable business model. Lisus  is focused on identifying better sites to source materials for batteries. Oscar holds a Doctorate in Environmental Science and Engineering from UCLA, as well as a Master studies in Homeland Security from USC and Global Security from John Hopkins. Before starting LISUS, Oscar was a Research Associate at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. He also founded an environmentalist group called GR, which has over 5,000 members.

Here is a sample of what you will hear in this episode: types of teams in deep tech, challenges of entrepreneurship in the current enviroment and as an immigrant founder, and product market fit.

To contact this week's guest,  Oscar Neyra,  or for more information follow the links below: 

partnerships@lisus.com

www.lisusenergy.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/oneyran/

Resources listed in this episode:

Gene Pool Engineering for Entrepreneurs

https://www.khoslaventures.com/gene-pool-engineering-for-entrepreneurs/

https://www.Rabbit.tech

https://nextactadvisors.com/when-spending-time-in-the-sandbox-isnt-fun-anymore-and-yet-you-still-can-play/

Show transcript:

00:04

Welcome back to the Founders Sandbox. The Founders Sandbox is a monthly podcast. I'm Brenda McCabe, your host. This was launched in September 2022. We're into our second season. And as I said, it's a monthly podcast.

 

00:33

that features entrepreneurs and business owners who learn and share about building resilient, scalable and sustainable businesses, all with great corporate governance. I have a very simple mission with this podcast. I want to assist the entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs to build scalable well governing resilient businesses. The podcast, the Founder Sandbox, is just an additional channel to

 

01:02

materials on my website, NextAct Advisors, and originally authored blog posts that you can find on LinkedIn. My guests are founders, business owners, corporate directors, and professional service firms who, like me, want to use the power of the enterprise, be it small, medium, or large, to create change for a better world. Through storytelling, each of my guests touches topics around resilience, purpose-driven enterprises, and sustainable growth. And my goal with this

 

01:31

monthly podcast is actually to equip one startup founder at a time to build a better world through great corporate governance. So today my guest is Oscar Neyra. Oscar is the CEO of Lisus, a venture-backed startup that is focusing on identifying better sites to source materials for batteries. And when I spoke with Oscar, we came up with the episode title

 

02:00

a sustainable business model and a sustainable market. So Oscar, thank you for joining me here in the Founder's Sandbox. Thank you so much, Brenda. It's my pleasure to be here. Let me give you some intro. Oskar holds a doctorate in environmental science and engineering from UCLA, as well as a master's studies in homeland security from USC and global security from Johns Hopkins. Before starting Lisus, Oskar was a research associate

 

02:28

at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. And he also founded an environmental group called GR, which has over 5,000 members. Oscar, my past that crossed at USC Viterbi Engineering Schools, Massey Entrepreneurship Prize Competition. About three years back, I was one of the judges on the panel in the pitch session. About a year later, Oscar asked me to join his advisor.

 

02:58

in corporate governance in lisus. And I'm sharing that here in my podcast as a full disclosure. And we have, we see each other frequently. And I thought as a first time founder with really deep technical and scientific knowledge and into your third year, you have a lot of stories that you could share here on the podcast. And I'm going to ask you, you know, I'm delighted you joined, but I'm going to ask you to start.

 

03:27

Just, you know, share how your life up till now, Oscar, has shaped your journey in entrepreneurship. Thank you so much, Brenda. Yeah, I think definitely entrepreneurship is a really interesting endeavor. You know, I don't come from a wealthy background. I come from a small town in Mexico. And all my life, I've been used to navigating against the current.

 

03:56

probably being the first member of my family to come to the US to study or to go to grad school. So I think entrepreneurship and this adventure resonates a lot with the path I've had in my life because it's a lot about being persistent and definitely going against the current and against

 

04:23

all the challenges that entrepreneurs like me face on a daily basis. Wow, thank you. It's always good to know the background of my guests. When you accepted to join me in the Founder Sandbox, I couldn't help. And you're technical scientists, right? PhD. Yeah, it took me back to an article I wrote some time back. It's called, When Spending Time in the Sandbox Isn't Fun Anymore.

 

04:52

and yet you can still play. So what I wrote is really about the teams. There are three types that I have discovered when working with technical founders. And we're gonna cut to the chase. I'm gonna ask Oscar in a minute what his perfect team is like. But in that blog post, I talk about technical scientific founding teams. Typically they come from a large enterprise. They excel at their craft as engineers, inventors. They have written patents, have worked at the bench for years.

 

05:22

And while their secret sauce has become a business, they don't have the skills and competencies in a technical or scientific founding team. They're insufficient to scale the business and they need time away from the sandbox and really working on the commercialization. And the second type of team is they've been there and done it. Founding teams, maybe it's their first or second exit. They've been there and done that. They may have the skills and competencies acquired at a large enterprise.

 

05:52

or a family-owned business, maybe they've been part of a startup, or they are bringing to life the idea of a patented product. Again, we're talking about scientific founders. And time in the sandbox, we're always gonna go back to the sandbox, was never an issue because they had access to abundant resources. Finally, a third type of team that I've been exposed to is the adult supervision.

 

06:16

And they are founders that have never worked for a large or medium sized enterprise with the processes, systems and operations that enable scaling a company. They've never hired or fired and they're many first. And they look around, say, isn't there an adult around that can help, can take the time to do those unnecessary things. So Oscar, of those three teams, you know, where would you place the licensed teams? And more importantly, you know, what does a perfect team?

 

06:47

mean to you and how have you, what makes a perfect team? Perfect, yeah. To the first question, I would say we're probably in the first definition, which is we come right from the lab. And before founding a startup, we definitely didn't know what was going to be. And of course, what are some of the things that you need to do?

 

07:15

in order to build a startup. I think something that has been really interesting to me is that in the lab, you are allowed to not know anything. And especially it's important kind of like to challenge every assumption that you make. Whereas when you're a founder and when you are building a startup, you are expected to have all the questions. So that is...

 

07:43

kind of one of the major differences that I've seen from the lab and from the startup world. So the ability to ask questions outside of the scientific realm, right? Exactly, yeah. Wow. Another thing that I think is very important is that, in my opinion, not knowing has a lot of value. And in a startup, unlike in a lab, it's better to not know.

 

08:12

because that is what opens many doors and what pushes the boundaries of what's possible. Wow. So the open sky. Exactly. That's my personal opinion. But yeah, I would say we are in the first box. Thank you. So what has been a major challenge in entrepreneurship? While building licensure into third year, what would you share as a major challenge? Perfect. Yeah. I can tell you

 

08:41

about the challenge and of course, coming back to your question about the Perfect Team. Yes, sorry. Yeah, I would say to the first question of the major challenge, definitely the landscape, when we started actually scaling with the company, it was when Silicon Valley Bank started to fall. So I remember we were in a meeting, we were in Menlo Park and then suddenly everybody starts texting and then we say, what is going on?

 

09:10

So we drive in front of the Silicon Valley Bank headquarters in Silicon Valley, and then we start seeing the people there. So I would say we were born out of a time of crisis, and that's what has made us stronger. But the major challenge is definitely the landscape right now. And most importantly, I would say the...

 

09:40

higher kind of a the higher kind of bar that you are subject to as an entrepreneur because in these times only the best ones thrive. So it's definitely a really fun time to be in and really exciting but also challenging. Thank you. Yeah. So let's go back. Do you have the perfect team to address and thrive in this and these challenging times? I yeah.

 

10:09

I like to think kind of like out of the box. Yes. As a technical founder and leading a deep tech startup, I see many companies that try to put together teams that are mostly PhDs with a lot of experience, post-docs, former professors, that kind of profiles. But in my view, the biggest challenge of those kinds of teams is that you get, as you advance in life, you get a little bit more

 

10:39

skeptical of what can be done. So to me the ideal team is similar to what we put together in license which is a combination of a lot of experience with a lot of innovation and a lot of youth. And this goes to a story that I really like from an article that is really

 

11:09

When one investor funds a company, a really big deep tech company, and the investor as the company, how was the team integrated? And the founder says, okay, like we have the best from this part, the best from this part, the best scientists in the world. And he asked the founder

 

11:39

And how many of those are under 35? And he says, wait, none. Yeah. And I think that's really interesting because the investor ends up saying, okay, to me, a diverse gen pool needs to have a combination of this kind of experience and also the value of, understanding the value of bringing, you know, people in their 20s that are right side of school that have all the energy in the world. And that don't necessarily know what they are getting into.

 

12:08

To me, that is the perfect thing. And I can think of a couple of examples of these kinds of things. Actually, you did have some interns during a period of time, right? Postdocs, are they working on the docs from USC or UCLA? Exactly, yeah. Right? Yeah, correct. We had some teammates. That's what I realized, because we have, as teammates, very experienced people.

 

12:37

And then you see the energy that the interns bring, the perspectives, the desire to push these boundaries. So that's what I love about it. And if you see one company that I really like, that right now is really famous in Los Angeles and that is like thriving, is Rabbit. Before Rabbit started to get hot as it is getting right now once they presented.

 

13:07

one of their hardware. I was looking at this company in their crunch base profile, and I look at the team and it was really interesting to me that when I saw the team, I saw that their CTO is like 20 years. I think he was part of Carnegie Mellon. He graduated from Carnegie Mellon and he right after became the CTO of this company. And when I saw that, I thought to myself, okay, this is the perfect CTO for this kind of company.

 

13:37

Yes. So pushing the boundaries, right? Digital natives and representing that generation. That's fascinating. Exactly. And of course, having adult supervision. Right. So a combination. Exactly. Yeah. Right. So you're into the third year. Market wins, they changed in March of last year, as you alluded to with the...

 

14:06

SVB and First Republic Bank debacle, right? With that background, have you continued to evolve the product market fit because of the market downwinds or what have you done with the product market fit? Yeah, that's a great question. Has it evolved? Yeah. I would say, you know, we need to think in terms of our customers, but also we need to think in terms of our times. Yeah.

 

14:36

2021, I would say there was a big focus on having the best technology at any cost and more in delaying, for example, revenue, profit, good unit economics. Now that the market has shifted, not only on the investment side, but also on the customer side, the focus is more on...

 

15:05

the focus of our products is more in generating revenue faster and in building a business that is more real and that can thrive regardless of the market conditions. So yeah, I would say that has been the major change. And in this search for the product market fit, we've realized that it's also important to focus to be super cash efficient.

 

15:34

to build instead of experimenting with three, four products, it's better to experiment with one product and to testing, but testing with a margin of safety rather than just testing every single perspective. Can you, for the benefit of my listeners that are not deep tech founders, walk us through actually the product in its current state

 

16:04

how are you creating the ability to identify sites that have better resources, more efficient? So what's the actual tech stack and how are you able to then think about monetizing that? Okay. That is a great question. So we have a product called Alchemist. It's a mineral exploration tool where we integrate remote sensing capabilities and state of the art artificial intelligence algorithms.

 

16:34

in order to prospect the areas that have potential for critical minerals. So we use remote sensing in a non-invasive way so we can explore for these minerals. So the way we've integrated a platform is in two components. One of them is the platform itself, which is what the customer interacts with. And the other thing, the other component is...

 

17:02

the what we call the license labs, which is essentially a very sophisticated platform that in the backend allows for the exploration and integration of AI capabilities. So that's the way we've structured it. I think with this advance that has been going on with AI and remote sensing capabilities, I think it's gonna get very exciting in the next few years.

 

17:32

So we love it. In terms of monetization, definitely. We've thought of some interesting approaches to it. Excellent. So Oscar, in continuation of my question around challenges of an entrepreneur, would you add any challenges as being an immigrant founder? Yeah, Brenda, that's a great question. I do think.

 

17:59

as an immigrant founder, you get a different perspective and probably you also lived it when you were in Spain. Yes. But one of the major things is figuring out how to build actually a business from scratch in a completely different legal system in a completely different landscape and building a network out of scratch too. Because you come from, in my case, I come from a university that like...

 

18:28

where I don't have any connections here. And then it's important to learn how to knock doors and how to search for opportunities out of zero. That is one of the major challenges. The other one is culturally, and I've seen it not only as myself, but also from friends that come from Australia, that come from India, that come from Japan.

 

18:55

that you see that there are some things that you need to be familiar with so that you can make sure to do the things in a diplomatic way. Okay. So I think that's also important. And that's those are the things that people don't tell you about. And the third one is definitely the immigration system, which is, you know, when you're trying to start a company here, you don't even know

 

19:24

like whether you're going to be able to do it, if you're like allowed, if you can sell something because it can be defined as work. So early in the beginnings of Lisus, that was our major concern. It took us a while to figure it out, to do the green card application, things like that. And once like you solve it, you are like in an even field. But yes, an immigrant, those are things

 

19:54

a long time and that we have in the back of our mind all the time. I've seen it with many, many founders and it's always a funny to see that we share the same challenges. Thank you for sharing. So, you know, the founders podcast is not solely around deep tech. So I have a lot of listeners that are business owners or founders in non deep tech. So could you describe

 

20:24

the business model of lysis. You talk about full stack, right? Business model. And I really would like you to get into the weeds to provide some more context of what is the product and how is it scaled and how do you monetize it? Definitely. Yeah, we're product Alchemist. It's a mineral exploration product that we use to search for critical minerals

 

20:54

And our business model is a full stack play. And essentially this means that we are not using our software and selling it by providing services. Rather we are using it as a tool or as leverage so that we can generate revenue in a faster way. To give you kind of like a better explanation or like a more in depth perspective on the full stack business model.

 

21:24

I would say when there is a transition or a big opportunity such as the one we are living now, it could be the energy transition where you are living this shift to the electric vehicle. So it could be a long time ago when we transitioned to the World Wide Web or when we started using the cell phone. All of these changes.

 

21:54

are defined by two waves. You have the first wave where there is a companies that try to solve and to actually serve a market. And there are companies that serve the companies that are trying to serve that market. So full stack means that you are, instead of being a service provider in a market, you're actually the solution provider. In the case, for example, of...

 

22:23

vehicle electrification should be the most common. There are companies that at the beginning, they started to focus on actually selling vehicles and electrifying. And there were after that, the second wave, a lot of companies that were trying to serve the market of electric vehicles through battery analytics, through efficiency, through different materials, but the big opportunity

 

22:51

in our view was actually in being the one providing the product. So what we're doing at Lysus is being full stack and becoming a materials company since the beginning. Yes, we have an amazing platform, Alchemist, and we use it to partner strategically with the miners, but we see a lot more value and as a company in being the actual solver of the problem and being the actual supplier of

 

23:20

the materials rather than just serving miners and serving companies that are focused on providing materials for batteries. That's why we think it's really an interesting business model and most importantly because full-stack businesses have proven in history to provide much better opportunities for revenue. Let's say

 

23:48

Some examples are Flexport, for example, SpaceX, companies that since the beginning, they tried to solve the problem rather than just being a service provider. Excellent. I also am thinking of Atlassian. They created quite a bit of work tools for developers of code.

 

24:17

Jira is one of their products, but they built, right? So Last scene is one of the companies, it's out of Australia, funny enough, created a lot of enterprise value early on and their tools are pervasive in the engineering teams that are building code today. So that's the analogy that I found while working with Lysis trying to get out of clean tech and looking at other.

 

24:44

There's similar analog businesses. Yeah, no, Atlassian is a great example. And we use it on a daily basis. I bet. We use all the tools, and it's amazing. So that kind of thing we have. Right. And we just had a great segue into clean tech. So Lysis is full-stack working in one of the deep tech sectors or verticals of clean tech. What are some of the things you're

 

25:14

clean tech market right now? Yeah, that's a great question. You know, the most interesting to me, of course, is critical minerals. It's probably the most boring, but it's also the one where we're gonna see the most exciting changes and advances. Some other things that are interesting are new materials. That is really interesting to me, because I think there is gonna be big opportunities in new materials and in...

 

25:44

in nature-based solutions. That's also something that's very... Right, synthetic. So within the biotech applied with nature. Exactly. And yeah, and I've been exposed also just to new techniques applied to solar panels that increase the efficiency. So there's always, it's all about efficiency, right? To compete with...

 

26:12

Oil and gas, right, in terms of the parity or gas lead for your car, right, electric vehicles. Yeah, no, I agree. Yeah. And something that is really interesting, too, I think that in the future, like, I envision a world where materials are going to be produced differently. And we are going to leverage nature to produce these materials. So I've seen, for example, very interesting companies that are using nature to produce

 

26:42

to separate minerals, for example, or that are using it to produce different type of materials, modifying it, et cetera. Of course it has its risk, but I think it's really interesting to see organic-based solutions. So that is another one that is interesting. And the other ones are in energy. I don't think that our energy system is gonna change drastically, but I do think

 

27:12

there is gonna be a lot of changes in how we use energy, how we store energy, yeah, what is the way in which we use energy. Those are some things that are amazing to me and where I see a lot of changes. And yeah, probably we're gonna see very interesting models for carbon capture.

 

27:41

Dequestration. Exactly, yeah. And technologies to solve the problem in the point source. I am not that much excited about the kind of like carbon credits, things like that. But I am very much about the technological approaches to it and also innovations in transportation. That's also really exciting. It's the biggest sector in energy consumption.

 

28:09

Actually, transportation, people don't think that. I think it's right. I'm sorry, in the emission of CO2. Correct, yeah. And GSD is transportation. Right. And what about, this is actually a nice little conversation about innovation and clean tech. But what do you think about the space that Lysis is competing in? Right.

 

28:37

efficiency and better site identification where the rare earth metals or the critical minerals are. You've got other competitors that are looking at it in a different way. Can you talk about how the identification of rare earth metals is evolving across the world?

 

29:06

Yeah, that's a great question. It's definitely an interesting field and one that is very small, because of course, it has a lot of barriers to entry. So when people realize that it's not as easy as they thought, they leave it. So yeah, definitely all the founders that are working in this sector have heard of each other or know each other. So that is fun. I would say.

 

29:35

in the part of critical minerals, in the market of critical minerals, it's a really old school field. It's really old school. You're using tools that you have been using for a hundred years and they've been working really well. So the big opportunities are in bringing new type of sensing and incorporating it in the sector of mineral exploration. But also I think it's very important to continue using some of the things that

 

30:04

have been done really well and help them optimize their operations. I think the major innovation in the sector is not gonna be in the technology, but on the business model. And I think, and I've seen it like with all the companies, all the funds, everyone is trying to figure out the right business model and go beyond just the project financing and being a fintech company, which in reality, all the mining companies are fintech companies.

 

30:33

into being more of a company that can produce better returns in an interesting way. So yeah, I think it's one of the most exciting fields to be in because there is going to be so much innovation, but also innovation is not going to come in the way we think it's going to come.

 

31:03

you to provide my listeners how they may contact you personally, right? Oscar is CEO and founder of Lysis as well as your company contact details. How's it best to learn more about Lysis, Alchemist and yourself? Yeah, through the website, you can in the website, you can get into contact us. So what is the website? The website is www.

 

31:33

Lizusenergy.com. And then right there, you can request to contact us and then you're going to get access to our calendar. And as quick as that, you can book a time with us to chat. And then also, you know, we're emailing, which is partnerships at Lisusenergy.com. There we can also chat. And if you have any ideas, careers, or any interesting perspective, we would love to hear from you.

 

32:02

Excellent. And I love to do a round of questions to each of my guests that kind of mirrors what I do at Next Act Advisors. I talk about sustainable businesses, resilience, and purpose-driven organizations. Not one guest has the same definition, and it's fascinating to do a little round of questions here. What does resilience mean to you, Oscar?

 

32:34

Yeah. Resilient to me means a, I see it kind of like as a synonym of perseverance, which is even if you fall, you can fall a hundred times and you stand up and continue going. That's what resilience means to me, being able to get hit and keep going. And it's very necessary in the early stages of a. Possibly. I would say it's possibly much more necessary than.

 

33:04

having a good academic background or having experience as an entrepreneur. What I've seen is that the best entrepreneurs are the ones who are resilient and who keep going no matter what. Excellent. Perseverance. Purpose-driven enterprise. You know, the title that we chose for this podcast episode is a sustainable business model in a sustainable market. What is purpose-driven enterprise for you?

 

33:35

To me, purpose has to be holistic rather than just focusing on one specific thing. I think it's important to think holistically and incorporate different attributes to pursue the right purpose. So I would say a purpose-driven enterprise is a company that has a very clear north star and that has different paths to go and follow that north star.

 

34:04

That's the way I would define it. What would be licenses Northstar? I would say over Northstar is sustainability and not environmentalism. So the way we see it is that there is kind of like certain currents where companies tend to try to be only environmentalist without incorporating other aspects. Got it. So to us...

 

34:34

that would be the north star, like being sustainable rather than being just environmentally friendly. Excellent. And finally, sustainable growth, not to be confused with sustainability. What is sustainable growth? So what is that growth curve right for you? How to consistently grow a business? Yeah, that's a great question. Sustainable growth means, in my view,

 

35:03

considering the environmental aspects, but also considering a sustainable business model that can self-fund itself. So the way I would see it is, okay, you're gonna build a company of X. And if you're gonna build this company only thinking in terms of environmentalism, you are doing it not in the right way, because you also need to consider how you're gonna fund.

 

35:32

those, that purpose and that mission. So sustainable growth means constantly, constantly checking to make sure that you are doing it well, but also creating systems so that you can fund that mission. Very good. That's very holistic, as you as you suggested. Exactly. Final question. Did you have fun in the sandbox today, Oscar?

 

36:00

Definitely. Yeah. It's the first time that I do a podcast. And I love it. Really interesting. And there are many things that you don't get to share on a day to day basis. So amazing opportunity kind of like to talk about some of the things that we believe in. Thank you. I want to let my listeners know that we will be providing

 

36:29

the show notes and the release of this podcast during the month of February. And more importantly, the article you've mentioned about how to build a perfect team, right? And your eyes will reference that in the show notes, as well as how to contact the founder of Lysis Energy. And yeah, so thank you very much for joining me and the founders sandbox.

 

36:59

along with Oscar Negra of Lysis. This episode will drop in February and you will always find the podcast available on all major platforms, Spotify, Apple, and wherever you get your podcasts. So thank you for listening in and see you next month. Thank you, bye.

Listen to the latest episode of "The Founder's Sandbox", where Brenda tackles the topic of starting discussions with your clients on setting up the board. Brenda speaks with Matthew Lopez, managing director of Wolf and Snow, about board creation.

Matthew Lopez is the Managing Director of Wolf and Snow, the first national firm providing fractional General Counsel services to founders. After years as in house counsel, Matthew wanted to serve more than one client at a time. He started the firm over 3 years ago and began with 3 clients and now serves from the practice of Wolf and Snow 30-40 clients spanning the US and international with a full-service legal services including paralegal and services that include connections to potential clients, partners,  investors and talent.  Wolf and Snow works with companies with a minimum of $1 mn in recurring revenue.

Other Resources mentioned in this podcast:

Strategic Board Formation key steps for startup growth

https://www.clerky.com

https://carta.com/

Learn more about Matthew Lopez, and Wolf and Snow: 

mlopez@wolfandsnow.com

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewtlopez/

 

Check out this month’s timely podcast with film composer and creator, Carlo Siliotto. We talk about co-creation; the music supporting the storyline.

The Writers Guild of America strike that began on May 2, 2023 continues as of the date of the release of this podcast.

You can listen into Carlo’s soundbites on AI in the creative process, the economics of residuals and governance as a committee member of the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences.

Carlo Siliotto is a Golden Globe nominated Film composer.  Since 1984 he has written music for over a hundred projects, ranging from theatrical features to documentaries and television series. Carlo is a prolific composer of concert music.. Carlo currently lives and works in Los Angeles, California. 

See you in the Founders Sandbox!

On this episode of The Founder's Sandbox, our host, Brenda McCabe speaks with Rushabh Mehta- CEO and Founder of MatchbookAI. They speak about Resilience: creating a new category by filling unmet needs with a new Data category. Rushabh shares his point of view on the primary challenges faced today in large enterprises, including latency, high costs associated with how data is used across enterprises and the control of the data.  

You can find out more about MatchbookAI or contact Rushabh at:

rmehta@matchbookai.com

https://campain.matchbookai.com

 

On today's episode of The Founder's Sandbox, our host Brenda McCabe speaks with Min-Yi Shih. Min- Yi has a background in Physics and Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering, (quantum optoelectronics field aka laser, etc), got his MBA from UCLA, prior CTO, COO and GM in the R&D, defense, medical and communication equipment industries, angel investor and more recently advisor to early-stage founders and academics in the deep tech space.

 Brenda and Min-Yi speak about “intrapreneurship through the lens of a scientist solving nonlinear equations”; How his journey started as a Research scientist at GE Global Research – where he considered himself an individual contributor; soon evolved to an individual enabler as a program manager, and eventually as an organizational “sherpa “guide for startups and academic institutions.

You can find out more or connect with Min-Yi on his linkedin page at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/min-yi-shih-86506a3/

On today's episode of The Founder's Sandbox, our host Brenda McCabe speaks with Lisa Greer Quateman – Corporate Board member, recently retired Attorney, and advocate of a greater presence for legal expertise on Boards of Directors. They speak about “Enhancing resilience and supporting good governance by tapping legal expertise“- how to incorporate legal practices into your startup to enhance the governing principles of your company.

You can contact Lisa or find out more about her at:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-greer-quateman/

https://www.directorsandboards.com/articles/singlemy-board-journey-lisa-greer-quateman

Lquateman@gmail.com

 

For our third Women's History Month special podcast, Brenda McCabe speaks with Martha Gamboa; CEO and Founder of Frendii. Martha shares how a personal journey of health and wellness led to building Frendii- a technology startup developing a solution for women over 50 to build community and facilitate frequent social and human connections.

You can find out more about Martha and Frendii at:

https://frendii.com

linkedin.com/in/martha-gamboa

 

On this episode of The Founder's Sandbox, Brenda speaks with Veronica Parmar. Veronica manages and teaches at a Pilates studio in the greater Los Angeles area, where her diverse client list includes professional athletes, entertainment personalities, seniors, and those recovering from injuries. 

With her deep understanding and passion of the Pilates work, she is able to inspire her clients to gain flexibility, strength and body awareness.  Veronica wants to expand her instruction to other aspects including guest teaching, workshops and Pilates retreats.

You can find out more about Veronica or contact her at:

www.pilateswithveronica.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/veronica-parmar/

 vlutz18@gmail.com