Podcast Summary
Exploring the potential and challenges of AI at Suzallu: AI holds immense potential to revolutionize society, but also poses existential risks and alignment challenges. Human misalignment is the root cause of AI misalignment, and aligning ourselves is crucial before aligning AI. AI can aid us in becoming better versions of ourselves and navigating complex systems, like DAOs and managing AI risk.
Key takeaway from this episode of Bankless's exploration of the frontier of AI at Suzallu is the potential for AI to revolutionize various aspects of society, from finance to social organization, but also the challenges and risks associated with its alignment. Nate Sorees from the Machine Intelligence Research Institute discussed the potential existential risks of AI, while Dagur Turan argued that human misalignment is the root cause of AI misalignment. The conversations converged on the importance of aligning ourselves before we can align AI, and the potential role of AI in helping us become the best versions of ourselves and navigate our chaotic world. The episode also touched on the potential of AI in decentralized autonomous organizations (DAOs) and managing AI risk, learning from the MEV industry. Overall, the AI frontier holds immense potential, but also significant challenges that need to be addressed for a beneficial and safe integration into society.
Exploring Flexibility and Values in Arbitrum and MIRI: Arbitrum offers flexibility in smart contract development, while MIRI evolved from creating AGI to focusing on alignment. Both organizations demonstrate the significance of continuous learning and adapting to complex challenges.
Arbitrum's Stylus offers developers the flexibility to write smart contracts in various programming languages, enabling them to explore and build without compromise. Meanwhile, the Machine Intelligence Research Institute (MIRI), founded around 2001 by Eliezer Yudkowsky, initially aimed to create artificial general intelligence (AGI) as fast as possible. However, they later realized the importance of ensuring AGI's alignment with human values, leading to a shift towards technical research around 2012-2013. Eliezer, now an executive director at MIRI, previously had a goal of solving problems quickly but now acknowledges the need for more time due to the complexity of the task. The executive director of MIRI, Nate Soares, shares a similar background, having recognized the need to address coordination failures and improve the world at a young age. Despite early attempts, he found the problem challenging and eventually joined MIRI in its technical research phase. Both Arbitrum and MIRI illustrate the importance of continuous learning and adaptation in their respective fields.
The potential of AI as a major coordination problem: AI's advanced capabilities could disrupt market systems and coordination mechanisms, potentially leading to severe consequences for society.
The advancement of Artificial Intelligence (AI) can pose significant coordination challenges for society, potentially outpacing our ability to effectively regulate and control its development. The speaker's personal journey from focusing on coordination issues to recognizing the importance of AI as a major coordination problem began when they realized the potential for an entity with superior technological capabilities to disrupt existing market systems and coordination mechanisms. This realization came about through their work on coordination issues and their encounter with the potential of AI. The speaker's perspective is that the development of advanced AI, if not properly managed, could lead to consequences as severe as the repurposing of human atoms, which would fundamentally alter the nature of human society. While the speaker does not claim that this is an inevitable outcome, they emphasize the need to be aware of the potential risks and challenges posed by AI in the context of coordination problems.
Exploring the future of AI and its impact on humanity: Optimism for a desirable future, but warnings of risks in creating AI with values not prioritizing human needs. Emphasis on creating diverse, fun, and life-valuing AI minds.
The future of artificial intelligence (AI) and its potential impact on humanity is a complex and pressing issue. The speaker, who has been working on this problem for nearly a decade, expresses optimism about humanity's ability to create a desirable future, but also warns of the risks of building optimized processes that may not prioritize human values. They believe that AI is one potential route to a superintelligent future, but other methods like whole brain emulation could also lead to the same outcome. The speaker emphasizes the importance of creating artificial minds that value diversity, fun, and life, and expresses concern about the potential creation of a mind that doesn't care for these things. They also reflect on how they became involved in this field, having been compelled by the problem and eventually joining the organization Miri in 2014. Now, in 2023, there is growing public awareness and conversation around AI, which the speaker finds heartening, but also acknowledges the uncertainty of when and how close the problem may be.
Understanding complex issues and their potential outcomes: Experts have differing views on the likelihood of worst-case scenarios for AI and scarcity, but agree that education and deep understanding are necessary to address these complex issues.
The complexity of explaining complex issues, such as the potential risks of advanced artificial intelligence or the concept of scarcity in a world of abundant money, is decreasing as more people become aware of these issues. However, the optimism regarding the outcome of these issues varies greatly, with some experts holding a more pessimistic view, believing that the worst-case scenarios are highly likely, while others remain hopeful that a "white swan" event could prevent disaster. The speaker expresses a sense of relief that more people are starting to notice and understand these issues, but acknowledges that the future is uncertain and it's hard to predict with precision. The speaker's personal probabilities of the worst-case scenario coming to pass are high, but they remain hopeful that they might be wrong and that humanity will find a way to avoid disaster. The complexity of the issues at hand, such as AI alignment and scarcity, require a deep understanding and education, and the speaker has spent a lot of time thinking about potential solutions and unknowns. The speaker also reflects on their earlier work on these issues and the challenges they faced in getting others to understand the importance of these problems.
Threading the first needle towards a solution: Despite challenges and low odds, staying optimistic as first steps towards a solution bring hope and potential for a shift in perspective
The speaker, who has been working on a complex problem for almost a decade, has had a fluctuating attitude towards its potential solution. Despite facing numerous challenges and low odds of success, they remain cautiously optimistic due to recent developments and the threading of the first needle towards a solution. The speaker acknowledges that the probability of success is still low, but the first steps towards a solution bring a sense of hope and the possibility that they might be wrong about some aspects of the problem. The challenges involve not only technical solutions but also the uptake and recognition of those solutions within relevant organizations, coordination, and the presence of skepticism from industry leaders. The speaker emphasizes that the events are not independent and that solving one issue might lead to the solution of others. While the overall probability of success remains low, the threading of the first needle brings a significant shift in perspective and hope for a potential solution.
The need for increased awareness and action on AI risks: Despite promising signs, collective response to AI dangers is insufficient. Blocked paths to addressing the issue call for increased public awareness and decisive action from key figures and governments.
Despite some promising signs, the collective awareness and response to the potential dangers of artificial intelligence (AI) are not yet at a level that instills confidence in its resolution. The speaker acknowledges the need for key figures and governments to coordinate efforts, but also suggests that not all of humanity is necessary to solve the problem. However, their models indicate that many paths to addressing the issue are currently blocked due to a lack of serious consideration and understanding of the problem. The speaker expresses concern that people keep finding reasons to get off the train before reaching the crucial stops, and that even when reality starts to present challenges, the response may be limited. Overall, the conversation highlights the importance of increasing public awareness and understanding of the potential risks and complexities of AI, and the need for more decisive action from those in positions of power and influence.
Aligning AI with human values: Eliezer Yudkowsky believes that aligning AI with human values is an exponential challenge, requiring significant resources and focus, but remains optimistic that humanity can find the correct path towards the solution.
The alignment problem of ensuring that artificial intelligence (AI) behaves in a way that benefits humanity is an exponential challenge, requiring us to make correct decisions at each branching point without knowing the exact path to the solution. This problem is made more difficult by the fact that humanity has a history of being swayed by short-term gains, even if they lead to negative consequences. While some argue that the technical problems of alignment are extremely difficult, Eliezer Yudkowsky, a prominent figure in the field, believes they are underserved, with relatively few people dedicating their efforts to solving them. The lack of progress can be attributed to a lack of talent and brainpower, rather than a lack of funding. Despite these challenges, Yudkowsky remains optimistic that humanity can eventually find the correct path towards the solution, but it will require a significant investment of resources and focus on this issue.
Mindful of potential distortions in AI research funding: Ensure funding doesn't skew field towards easier-to-understand projects, prioritize talent for understanding current systems and developing theories on AI alignment.
While funding in the field of AI research is important, it's crucial to be mindful of potential distortions and incentive issues. The line between legible and illegible research can be blurry, and it's essential to ensure that funding isn't skewing the field towards easier-to-understand projects at the expense of potentially groundbreaking, yet more complex, research. However, there's a pressing need for talent in the field, specifically individuals who can understand the inner workings of current AI systems and develop theories on how to direct and align their goals. This research can inform both hands-on, practical approaches and more visionary, independent lines of inquiry. The alignment problem, which involves making an AI that wants what we want, is a significant challenge that requires a different kind of research, often less legible but equally important. The lack of talent in this area, particularly ambitious visionaries, is a major hurdle in making progress towards solving the alignment problem. In the future, when we've cracked the alignment challenge, we'll be able to look back and reflect on these discussions, emphasizing the importance of both understanding the current systems and developing theories on how to align their goals.
The solution to AI alignment is a collective effort: Solving the AI alignment problem requires a diverse range of approaches, creativity, persistence, and a willingness to learn from others. Start by exploring introductory resources on websites like the Less Wrong Wiki.
The solution to the AI alignment problem is likely to be the result of a collective effort involving many people and various perspectives, rather than the work of a single lone genius. Historically, significant theoretical developments have often been attributed to individuals, but they often built upon the work of many others. The AI alignment problem is complex and multifaceted, and it may require a diverse range of approaches and insights. For someone who is eager to dedicate their life to solving this problem, it can be challenging to know where to start. There is a wealth of information available online, but it can be difficult to navigate and find resources that resonate with one's perspective. The speaker suggests looking for introductory resources on websites like the Less Wrong Wiki, and being open to exploring new ideas and approaches. Ultimately, the solution to the AI alignment problem is likely to be the result of a long and difficult process, with many setbacks and challenges along the way. It will require creativity, persistence, and a willingness to learn from others. While it may be tempting to think that a lone genius will come up with the solution, the reality is likely to be more complex and collaborative.
Combating existential risks: primary and secondary efforts: Everyone can contribute to addressing existential risks through primary efforts like problem-solving or secondary efforts like regulation, education, and communication.
Addressing existential risks, such as those posed by advanced artificial intelligence, requires a combination of primary and secondary efforts. For those with the necessary skills and mindset, direct problem-solving is an option. However, for others, secondary efforts like regulation, education, and communication are valuable contributions. Regulation, despite its drawbacks, may be necessary to ensure safety in fields with potential for mass harm. Those without the ability to directly tackle the problem can still make a difference through alternative means. It's essential to acknowledge the enormity of the issue and find ways to contribute, even if it may not be an easy or straightforward process. Additionally, maintaining mental resilience and not getting overly discouraged by the magnitude of the problem is crucial. Ultimately, everyone has a role to play in addressing existential risks, and it's essential to find where one's skills and passions can make the most significant impact.
The Significance of Intelligence and Other Potential Problems: Recognize the potential impact of artificial intelligence on humanity and continue the fight for a good outcome, as even a small chance of success could lead to unprecedented good. Humanity's role as both the source of evil and good, and the potential uniqueness of human emotions and values in the universe, should also be considered.
While we may intuitively believe we have identified the world's biggest problems, it's important to consider other potential issues, especially the development of artificial intelligence and its potential impact on humanity. The speaker shares how his perspective shifted when he realized the significance of intelligence and the potential for other intelligences that may not care about human values. Despite the potential sadness and despair this realization brought, the speaker emphasizes the importance of continuing the fight to ensure a good outcome, as even a small chance of success could lead to unprecedented good. The speaker also emphasizes the importance of recognizing humanity's role as both the source of evil and good, and the potential uniqueness of human emotions and values in the universe.
Building a kinder world with technology: Through harnessing virtues and limiting vices, we can create a world with meaningful obstacles and flourishing civilizations using technology, such as Web 3 and ecosystems like Mantle and Polygon.
The future of humanity lies in our ability to harness our virtues and limit our vices as we continue to advance technologically. We can strive to build a kinder world where obstacles are meaningful and lead to growth, rather than unnecessary suffering. With the help of smarter, capable allies, we have the potential to solve many problems and create flourishing civilizations. In the realm of web 3 technology, ecosystems like Mantle and Polygon are paving the way for innovation and expansion, offering grants and resources to promising projects. Polygon 2.0, in particular, aims to provide a value layer for the Internet, enabling unlimited scalability and unified liquidity. As we navigate these complex issues, it's essential to engage in open dialogue and collaboration, ensuring that we're working towards a future that is worth the effort.
Human alignment issues must be addressed before focusing on AI alignment: Addressing human misaligned incentives is crucial before attempting AI alignment, and AI tools can help human alignment efforts.
Before focusing on aligning Artificial Intelligence (AI), it's crucial for humans to address their own alignment issues first. Dare from the AI Objectives Institute emphasized this point, explaining that the current systems and institutions are already experiencing significant disruptions, and AI will only accelerate these crises. The AI Objectives Institute believes that the misaligned incentives present in human systems, such as markets, corporations, and nation-states, will be exacerbated by AI. Therefore, it's essential to prioritize solving human alignment before attempting to align AI. Furthermore, AI tooling can be helpful in addressing human alignment issues. TOKU, a company that simplifies token compliance for businesses, can help navigate the complex world of labor laws, payroll, tax obligations, tax reporting, and crypto regulations, making it easier for companies to focus on their core mission.
Aligning AGI with human values is a complex problem: Focus on defining human values and coordinating on them before attempting to align AGI. Prioritize building tools for scalable coordination, epistemic security, and systems of alignment to help humans coordinate and minimize existential risk.
Aligning Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) with human values and perspectives is a complex problem that requires careful consideration and coordination. Solving the AI alignment problem doesn't necessarily solve the human alignment problem, as it may just shift the problem from a silicon substrate to the sociotechnical substrate. This is why it's essential to focus on defining and understanding human values and coordinating on them before attempting to align AGI. The concept of differential technological development suggests that we should prioritize solving certain problems first to create a safer foundation for the future. In the current alignment landscape, the focus should be on building tools for scalable coordination, epistemic security, and systems of alignment to help humans coordinate and identify potential loopholes in our thinking. These tools can help us build institutions that are prepared for the arrival of AGI and minimize existential risk. Ultimately, the AI alignment problem is an extension of the human coordination problem, and we cannot effectively align AGI without first aligning humans. The goal should be to use AI tools to help humans coordinate and solve their problems before attempting to solve the AI alignment problem more directly.
Individual autonomy and epistemic security in the age of AI: Focusing on individuals and their autonomy and epistemic security is crucial to ensure AI aligns with human values and prevent catastrophic risks. Research aims to help individuals stay true to their objectives amidst the constant flow of information, and the Machine Objectives Institute works to continuously improve AI objectives.
Ensuring the alignment of artificial intelligence (AI) with human values and preventing potential catastrophic risks requires a focus on individuals and their autonomy and epistemic security in the age of AI-generated content. The individual is the foundation of society, and securing their ability to maintain autonomy and understand the intentions behind the information they engage with is crucial. The societal stack, from the individual to the collective and systems level, must be considered. At the individual level, research aims to bring better epistemic security through AI tools, helping individuals stay true to their objectives and alignments amidst the constant flow of information. The Machine Objectives Institute's goal is to continuously come up with better objectives for AI, recognizing that both humans and AI systems lack fixed objectives. This individual-focused approach is essential for creating a future where AI systems and human understanding can elevate our sense of what humanity wants to be and coordinate towards a better future.
Ensuring epistemic security for individual autonomy: AI tools can help identify potentially harmful content patterns, but it's crucial to maintain user autonomy and unbiased systems to provide informed choices.
The individual's autonomy and sovereignty are the foundation of civilization, and ensuring epistemic security - the ability to discern reliable information - is crucial for this foundation. The current state of information overload and the rise of echo chambers in social media have highlighted the need for improving epistemic security. AI tools, such as language models, can help identify patterns in content that may not serve the individual's best interests, like addictive loops or repetitive discourse. However, it's essential to ensure these AI systems are unbiased and respect the individual's autonomy. The goal is to provide a check-in, not a judgment, allowing individuals to make informed decisions about their engagement with content. The Lucid Lens project is an example of this approach, aiming to guide users towards more intentional and diverse interactions.
Language Models as Tools for Personal Growth and Self-Discovery: Language Models can act as neutral alert systems and customized companions, promoting self-awareness, personal growth, and effective information consumption, without imposing biases.
Language Models (LLMs) can serve as both a grounding tool for individuals and a customizable companion in navigating information and understanding personal biases. These functions can contribute positively to society by promoting self-awareness, personal growth, and effective information consumption. The first function, credibly neutral mechanisms, acts as a neutral alert system, helping individuals avoid repetitive behaviors and stay focused. The second function, personalized LLMs, aligns with individual desires and biases, providing a customized experience that enhances understanding and self-awareness. Both functions uphold the principle of credible neutrality, ensuring that the technology does not impose biases on users. The ultimate goal is to create tools that help individuals evolve and align with their values, contributing to a better collective society. Essentially, LLMs can be seen as tools for personal growth and self-discovery, allowing individuals to become the best versions of themselves.
Exploring the connection between individual self-improvement and societal progress through extended cognition: Individual self-understanding and historical data can lead to better communities, but security and individual autonomy are crucial. Collective decision-making systems and understanding of different perspectives are essential for societal alignment with AI.
The individual's self-improvement and understanding of themselves through their history and thoughts can lead to better communities. This concept is called extended cognition. However, it's crucial to ensure this data is secure and within individual autonomy. On a larger scale, aligning societies to tackle AI challenges requires collective decision-making systems and understanding of different perspectives. A collective is a group of individuals, and aligning AI to one human raises the question of how we align AGI to a collective. Society's alignment depends on whether it's dominated by lower or higher mind thinking. Lower mind thinking creates a collective golem, while higher mind thinking creates a collective genie. We need to make AI systems more like genies to solve the downstream problem of AI alignment, which is human alignment. Our project, "Talk to the City," aims to create a digital town hall for real-time, human language feedback to government decisions. This shift from categorical voting to sharing perspectives can lead to more effective decision-making.
Understanding Community Issues with AI: The 'Talk to the City' prototype uses language models to collect and synthesize unstructured text feedback, providing diverse perspectives and encouraging nuanced discussions to address short-sighted policy making.
The "Talk to the City" prototype aims to collect and synthesize unstructured text feedback from a community using language models, providing different perspectives for understanding various viewpoints. This tool does not aim for consensus but rather helps individuals engage with diverse reasons behind community issues. It also intends to address the problem of short-sighted policy making by encouraging more nuanced and sophisticated discussions. The prototype can serve as a personal assistant for individuals, aggregating to a higher order for collective coordination and cooperation. It can also reveal emergent options for positive outcomes that individual groups may not have considered. The tools being built are beneficial for humanity in the near term, solving human alignment issues, and also creating valuable data sets for future AI alignment research. The ultimate goal is to use this shared understanding to operationalize more powerful AI, starting with the agreement on fundamental moral values such as the belief that killing humans is wrong.
Learning and adapting to changing value landscape: Build AI systems that can learn and adapt to human values, as they change over time, to create resilient and evolving AI systems. Consider the complexity of systems and prioritize the betterment of the collective and individuals.
Instead of trying to lock in values or optimal versions of AI systems, it's more beneficial to build systems that can learn and adapt to the changing value landscape. This approach is crucial for creating resilient AI systems that can continuously evolve and align with human values. The crypto world provides an example of this, as the incentives and ground rules shift, requiring systems that can adapt. It's important to remember that human values and their interpretations can change over time, so an AI system should be able to learn from humans and adjust accordingly. Furthermore, it's essential to consider the complexity of systems, which consist of not only people but also entities with their own goals and agendas. Designing systems that prioritize the betterment of the collective and individuals is a challenging problem, but one that may require AI to help solve, rather than creating rigid and inflexible systems that can lead to misalignment and unintended consequences.
Aligning AI and designing institutions for its use: Focusing on open agency systems, emphasizing transparency, visibility, and collaboration, is crucial for both building AI systems and designing institutions for their use, helping to mitigate existential risks and improve human alignment.
Aligning AI and designing effective institutions for its use is a pressing challenge that requires coordination at a global level. AI is a critical building block that can cause significant damage if not handled correctly, making existential risk a valid concern. While we have made progress in aligning systems at smaller scales, such as tribes, communities, and nations, we have yet to solve this issue at a more systemic level. The presence of AI and AI-driven institutions necessitates a focus on how they can interface with and be designed for better coordination. The concept of open agency systems, which emphasize transparency, visibility, and collaboration, is crucial for both building AI systems and designing institutions for their use. This shift from closed monolithic systems to more open agency systems is essential for human alignment and will continue to be relevant as AI tooling enters the picture. Ultimately, aligning AI is a unique challenge that, if solved, could potentially help us align other systems and create more effective institutions overall.
Aligning AI towards human values in a world of multiple systems: Ensure alignment across multiple AI systems by building safe, verifiable, and open tools that enhance human capabilities, foster understanding, and promote human flourishing.
Aligning artificial intelligence (AI) towards human values is a complex issue that goes beyond ensuring a single AGI adheres to a set of values. Instead, we are more likely to face a world with multiple AI systems, each with its own interpretations and priorities. The challenge then becomes ensuring alignment across all these systems. The ideal universe, as envisioned, is one where AI tooling enhances human capabilities, fosters understanding among humans, and promotes human flourishing. This can be achieved by building systems that are safe, verifiable, and open to human input. It's crucial to address the coordination problem and ensure humans can work together effectively to guide the development and use of AI. To learn more about this vision and how you can contribute, visit objective.is and send an email to deger@objective.is.
