S2.E8: The Bible & Democratic Organizing - Part 1

In this final episode of season two I continue discussing the relationship between the Bible and organizing. I begin by talking to Keisha Krumm, who opened the first episode of season one (you can hear more about her journey there). Here she gives a reading of Luke 18, or what she renames the parable of the tenacious widow, and reflects on what Scripture means to her in her work. I then talk to Alexia Salvatierra. Alexia shares something of her background, her formation as an organizer, and of her work with predominantly Evangelical churches.  I was keen to talk to Alexia as she has developed a compelling vision of the specific role and gifts of churches in broader social movements and democratic coalitions.  Scripture is central to her vision of the meaning and purpose of democratic politics. Alexia also gives a reading of the tenacious widow, one that compliments and amplifies Keisha's, as well as the story of David and the prophet Nathan in 2 Samuel 12. She situates her readings within a broader account of what she calls serpent and dove power, a framework derived from the exhortation in Matthew 10.16: "See, I am sending you out like sheep into the midst of wolves; so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves."

Guests

Keisha Krumm is lead organizer for Greater Cleveland Congregations, a nonpartisan community organizing coalition in Cuyahoga County, Ohio. Since 2001, she has previously organized and built community organizations in Los Angeles, Seattle-Tacoma, and Milwaukee. Her work entails developing leaders within congregations, educational associations, nonprofits, and labor unions to tackle issues ranging from job creation, quality education, affordable health care, mental health, to racial justice. Keisha has a master’s degree from the Mennonite Brethren Biblical Seminary in Christian Community Development. She is a devoted wife and mother who has committed her life to justice seeking.

Rev. Dr. Alexia Salvatierra is a Lutheran Pastor with over 40 years experience in combining congregational ministry with community organizing. She is currently the Academic Dean of the Center for the Study of Hispanic Church and Community at Fuller Theological Seminary and the Assistant Professor of Integral Mission and Global Transformation. She is the author with Peter Heltzel of Faith-Rooted Organizing: Mobilizing the Church in Service to the World (Intervarsity Press) and Buried Seeds: Learning from the Resilience of Vibrant Marginalized Christian Communities with Rev. Brandon Wrencher (Baker Academic, 2022). In addition to her academic work, she coordinates the Ecumenical Collaboration for Asylum Seekers and serves on the leadership team of Matthew 25/Mateo 25––a bipartisan Christian network to protect and defend families facing deportation in the name and spirit of Jesus.  She has been a national leader in the areas of working poverty and immigration for over 25 years, including co-founding the national Evangelical Immigration Table in 2011, the 2007 New Sanctuary Movement, the Guardian Angels project for unaccompanied migrant minors in 2014, and Matthew 25/Mateo 25 in 2016. From 2000 to 2011, she was the Executive Director of Clergy and Laity United for Economic Justice in California—a statewide alliance of organizations of religious leaders who come together to respond to the crisis of working poverty by joining low-wage workers in their struggle for a living wage, health insurance, fair working conditions, and a voice in the decisions that affect them.

Scriptures discussed: 2 Samuel 11-12; Matthew 10; Luke 18. 

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In this and the final episode of this second series I discuss the relationship between the Bible and organizing. The turn to Scripture to imagine and narrate politics is often assumed to be the preserve of authoritarian theocrats. But since the formal development of community organizing in the 1930s, and long before that, texts from the Bible are consistently used to both teach democratic organizing and envision the need for radical, democratic change. The use of Scripture in this way builds on long standing Jewish and Christian traditions of thought and practice. 

I begin this episode by talking to Ernesto Cortes who was featured in episode 7 of the first series. In that episode he discusses his own formation as an organizer. Here he reflects on why he consistently turns to Scripture to frame the task of organizing and to train others in the work of building a more democratic society. The passage he unpacks is the story of Jethro and Moses in Exodus 18, which he reads as a way of envisioning democratic forms of leadership. In doing so, he self-consciously builds on Saul Alinsky's (S2.E2) use of Moses as a model for the role of the organizer.

In the second part of this episode I talk to Marshall Ganz, another hugely influential figure in the contemporary development of grassroots democratic organizing. Marshall currently teaches at Harvard in the Kennedy School of Government. But he has a much storied career in organizing before that. He tells me about his involvement in various democratic movements as a way of narrating the role of Scripture and religion in his own life and the movements he contributed to. These include his involvement in the Civil Rights movement (and the role of the Black Church) and the United Farm Workers movement (and the role of the Catholic Church). He begins by reflecting on his Jewish upbringing. Later he talks through his re-engagement with Judaism and how this shaped the development of his influential public narrative approach which involves telling a story of self, us, and now. As a complement to Ernesto Cortes’s meditation on leadership through the story of Jethro and Moses, Marshall reflects on the story of David and Goliath as a way of teaching strategy.

Guests

Ernesto Cortes, Jr. - for details see season 1 episode 7.

Marshall Ganz is Rita E. Hauser Senior Lecturer in Leadership, Organizing, and Civil Society at the Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University. He began organizing with the 1964 Mississippi Summer Project as part of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (see S2.E3). He then joined Cesar Chavez in his effort to unionize California farm workers, working with the United Farm Workers for 16 years (see S1.E3). During the 1980s he worked with grassroots groups to develop new organizing programs and designed innovative voter mobilization strategies for local, state, and national electoral campaigns. He eventually completed a PhD in sociology and came to teach at Harvard. His book, Why David Sometimes Wins: Leadership, Organization and Strategy in the California Farm Worker Movement was published in 2009, earning the Michael J. Harrington Book Award of the American Political Science Association. In 2007-8 he was instrumental in design of the grassroots organization for the 2008 Obama for President campaign. In association with the Leading Change Network he coaches, trains, and advises social, civic, educational, health care, and political groups on organizing, training, and leadership development around the world.

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This episode discusses the work of British philosopher Bernard Crick, with a particular focus on is his seminal essay “In Defence of Politics.” In clear prose and with sharp insight, Crick sets out a definition of politics and an account of why and how politics is essential not simply to survive but to thrive. Community organizers, alongside many others, have turned to Crick's essay again and again to explain the meaning, purpose, and character of democratic politics.

I discuss Crick's political philosophy and the essay with Maurice Glasman, a political theorist, Labor peer, and a founding figure of the Blue Labor movement. The concerns of Blue Labour very much echo and resonate with those Crick outlines in his essay. As well as knowing Crick personally, Maurice shares an involvement in Labour Party politics with Crick. Prior to this involvement, Maurice was, for many years, involved in community organizing as part of London Citizens and Citizens UK.

Guest

Maurice Glasman is a Labour Life Peer and Director of the Common Good Foundation.  He was educated at the Jewish Free School, a comprehensive school in East London, and then studied Modern History at Cambridge University. He went on to complete his Phd at the European University Institute.  He has written two books, "Unnecessary Suffering" (Verso, 1996) and "Blue Labour: The Politics of the Common Good" (Polity, 2022). 

Resources for Going Deeper

Bernard Crick, In Defence of Politics, 5th edn (Continuum, 2005)

Bernard Crick, "Civic Republicanism and Citizenship: the Challenge for Today," in Bernard Crick and Andrew Lockyer, Active Citizenship: What Could it Achieve and How?  (Edinburgh University Press, 2010)

Maurice Glasman, 'Preface to In Defence of Politics' (2013)

All available to download from: https://ormondcenter.com/listen-organize-act-podcast

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This episode discusses the work of the influential American political thinker, Sheldon Wolin. Wolin is one of the foremost theorists of radical democracy. His insights are also extremely helpful in naming the contemporary forces and dynamics that undermine and subvert democracy - all in the name of being democratic. Like other figures discussed in this series he writes in a compelling way, drawing on a diverse range of sources including  historical examples, the Bible, and contemporary culture to explain his ideas. His work has been important in helping to frame and make sense of on the ground democratic organizing. While giving an overview of his life and work, the key text of Wolin’s I focus on is his essay “Contract and Birthright” from his essay collection entitled The Presence of the Past.

I  discuss Sheldon Wolin with Laura Grattan, a political theorist at Wellesely College. Laura's scholarship is shaped by nearly a decade of community organizing with Durham C.A.N., an IAF affiliate in North Carolina.

Guest

Laura Grattan is Jane Bishop '51 Associate Professor of Political Science at Wellesley College. She researches and teaches political theory, with a focus on grassroots organizing and movements for racial and economic justice. Her books include Populism’s Power: Radical Grassroots Democracy in America, which analyzes populist rhetoric and organizing in historical and contemporary social movements (including the nineteenth-century People’s Party, the Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street, and DREAM Act and UndocuQueer organizing). Her new project investigates movements such as the Movement for Black Lives, prison abolition, and #Not1More Deportation and the ways they generate alternatives to the colorblind ideology and practices that have produced and sustained the carceral state in the U.S. She is also co-editor of Deliberation and the Work of Higher Education: Innovations for the Classroom, Campus, and Community, which explores issues and practices of civic engagement among college students. At Wellesley, she co-directs the Project on Public Leadership and Action, an initiative led by faculty who are committed to action-oriented and public facing research that builds civic agency among students and in the surrounding community.

Resources for Going Deeper

 Sheldon Wolin, ‘Contract and Birthright,’ in Presence of the Past: Essays on the State and the Constitution (Baltimore: John Hopkins University Press, 1990), 137-150.

Sheldon Wolin, Politics and Vision: Continuity and Innovation in Western Political Thought - Expanded Edition (Princeton University Press, 2004)

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This episode discusses the work of the hugely influential political theorist, Hannah Arendt, and how it provides profound insights into the nature and purpose of both politics and democratic organizing. Arendt's books include the Origins of Totalitarianism, Eichmann in Jerusalem, The Human Condition, and On Revolution. These works, along with her numerous essays, are vital for understanding the politics both of her day and ours.  I discuss Arendt’s understanding of politics, power, violence, and the resonance between Arendt’s work and organizing with Leo Penta. If you know nothing about Arendt and her work, this episode is a great introduction. And if you are a veteran reader of Arendt, this episode opens up how Arendt's work connects to and is a key dialogue partner for existing forms of grassroots democratic politics.

Guest

Leo Penta is a Catholic priest, community organizer, and academic. His doctorate focused on Hannah Arendt’s concept of power, a focus generated by his time as a community organizer in New York where he helped found the East Brooklyn Congregations (EBC) organizing coalition. He has continued to work as both a priest and organizer, first in the States and then, since 1996, in Germany.  While in the States, Penta spearheaded an effort of the Industrial Areas Foundation from 1990 to 1996 to develop “IAF Reflects”, an institute for reflection on organizing. The Institute conducted seminars with the participation of both well-known academics and renowned practitioners to deepen the theoretical base for the work of organizing. From 1996 to 2017 Leo Penta taught at the Catholic University of Applied Sciences in Berlin, developing a focus on community development. In conjunction with this, he developed the first community organizing initiative in Germany, called “Menschen verändern ihren Kiez/Organizing Schöneweide.” In 2006 he became the founding director of the German Institute for Community Organizing (DICO) which is dedicated to developing the practice of community organizing in Germany and training professional community organizers. He has continued to study Arendt’s work and how it can help frame organizing throughout his career. For contact and further information: www.communityorganizing.de and www.dico-berlin.org

Resources for Going Deeper

Hannah Arendt, “On Violence, part II" in Crises of the Republic (New York: Harcourt Brace & Co, 1972), 134-155.

Hannah Arendt, “Action” in The Human Condition (various editions), Part 5.

Hannah Arendt, “On Humanity in Dark Times: Thoughts about Lessing,” Men in Dark Times (New York: Harcourt Brace & Co, 1968), 3-32.

Hannah Arendt, “Totalitarianism,” The Origins of Totalitarianism (various editions), Part 3

“What remains?” Interview with Hannah Arendt on her life and work by Günter Gaus for German television (1964). With subtitles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVSRJC4KAiE

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Building on the previous episode, this one continues to discuss the work of Bayard Rustin and the overlapping struggles that shaped his vision of democracy and his approach to organizing. I do so with Harry Boyte.  We focus on Rustin’s practice as an organizer, his conception of nonviolence as a form of democratic politics, and how to understand Rustin’s classic 1964 essay “From Protest to Politics,” as well as what Rustin has to teach us today. Along the way, Harry tells dramatic stories about his own work as an organizer and unfolds why Rustin's approach shows how distinctions between left and right or conservative and progressive are useless for thinking politically. Harry reflects on how all communities have democratic and authoritarian impulses. For him, the work of organizing is to identify and build up the capacity of the former and counter the work of conflict entrepreneurs who play on the latter.

Guest

Harry C. Boyte is a public intellectual, organizer, and theorist of the public work framework of civic engagement and participatory democracy. He worked as a young man for Martin Luther King’s organization, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, reporting to Dorothy Cotton, director of the movement’s 900 grassroots citizenship schools. From 1966 to 1972, following the suggestion of King, he organized poor white mill workers in Durham, North Carolina who built a community organization, ACT, which made connections with poor blacks in Durham. He was a co-founder of the New American Movement, a precursor to Bernie Sanders’ Democratic Socialists of America, before he shifted to a democratic populist philosophy in the late 1970s. Boyte is now Senior Scholar in Public Work Philosophy at Augsburg, a Senior Associate of the Kettering Foundation, a cofounder of the Institute for Public Life and Work, and on the Scholars Council of Braver Angels.

Asked by the University of Minnesota’s Humphrey Institute in 1987 to organize a project on democracy, he translated what he called the “citizen politics” he had generalized from the organizing of the Industrial Areas Foundation into a variety of projects to democratize institutions, from schools and colleges to government agencies and nonprofits. In 1990, working with Dorothy Cotton and Jim Scheibel, he founded Public Achievement (PA) a youth political and civic education initiative based on community organizing practices and a larger view of democracy which has spread to more than 20 countries.

From 1993 to 1995, Boyte coordinated Reinventing Citizenship, a cross partisan alliance of educational, civic, and philanthropic civic groups, which worked with President Clinton’s White House Domestic Policy Council to analyze the gap between citizens and government and to advance the idea of “public work,” akin to what Nobel prize winner Elinor Ostrom later theorized as “polycentric governance” as an alternative to simple regulation or service delivery. In 2012-2013, on the invitation of Obama’s White House Office of Public Engagement, he coordinated the American Commonwealth Partnership, a confederation of higher education and civic groups formed to commemorate the 150th anniversary of the Morrill Act establishing land grant colleges.

Harry Boyte has authored, coauthored, and edited eleven books on democracy, citizenship, and community organizing, including The Backyard Revolution (1980), Free Spaces with Sara Evans (1986, 1992); CommonWealth: A Return to Citizen Politics (1989) and Awakening Democracy (2018). His writings have appeared in more than 100 publications including New York Times,

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This episode discusses the remarkable figure of Bayard Rustin who pioneered many of the tactics and strategies still used in large scale organizing work. A lifelong and committed Quaker, Rustin is in many ways a paradoxical figure. A utopian realist or pragmatic radical he was criticized for many of the positions he took yet his commitment to people power manifested through nonviolent, democratic means of change and his holistic vision of social, economic, and political transformation was deeply revolutionary. From the 1940s onwards he was at the forefront of struggles for peace, racial equality, economic justice, and the dignity of all people. And as an openly gay man he was constantly harassed and excluded by those he worked with because of his sexuality. Alongside his life, work as an organizer, Quaker theology, and democratic vision, this two part episode discusses his seminal essay "From Protest to Politics," still used by organizers today.

In this first part, I talk to Sarah Azaransky who teaches at Union Theological Seminary. Sarah is writing a book on Rustin and has researched and written extensively on the historical influences and figures that shaped the civil rights movement. These include a biography of Pauli Murray, another key figure of the struggle for civil rights, as well as a history of the interaction between civil rights leaders in the US and the Indian independence movement led by Gandhi.

Guest

Sarah Azaransky teaches social ethics at Union Theological Seminary in New York City. She is author of The Dream is Freedom: Pauli Murray and American Democratic Faith (2011) and This Worldwide Struggle: Religion and the International Roots of the Civil Rights Movement (2017). She is working on a volume about Bayard Rustin to be published in Eerdmans' "Library of Religious Biography" series.

Resources for Going Deeper

Bayard Rustin, “From Protest to Politics: The Future of the Civil Rights Movement (1964),” Time on Two Crosses: The Collected Writings of Bayard Rustin, eds., Devon Carbado & Donald Wise, 2nd edn (New York: Cleis Press, 2015), 116-146. Also available online.

Bayard Rustin, Strategies for Freedom: The Changing Patterns of Black Protest (New York: Columbia University Press, 1976).

Jerald Podair, Bayard Rustin: American Dreamer (Lanham: Rowman & Littlefield, 2009). Concise biography that directly addresses Rustin’s work as an organizer and his political philosophy.

George Shulman, “Bayard Rustin: Between Democratic Theory and Black Political Thought,” African American Political Thought: A Collected History (Chicago” Chicago University Press, 2021), 439-459. A superb essay that reflects on how the tensions and contradictions in Rustin’s life and how his debates with Malcolm X, Stokely Carmichael, and Staughton Lynd articulate the condition and possibilities of democratic politics today.

Brother Outsider: The Life of Bayard Rustin (2003), dir. Nancy Kates & Bennett Singer. Documentary film about Rustin’s life.

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In this second part of the episode on Ella Baker, I talk to Gerald Taylor. We discuss the influence Baker’s approach and vision had on him as an organizer, how he sees her understanding of organizing play out on the ground, and his own involvement in myriad grassroots democratic initiatives. Along the way, he recounts a compelling set of stories and reflections on what it means to do organizing in the spirit of Ella Baker.

Guest
Gerald Taylor was a national senior organizer with the Industrial Areas Foundation (IAF) for  nearly 35 years, and for much of this time he was the IAF’s Southeast Regional Director. In 2015, he co-founded Advance Carolina, the first state-wide Black led 501c (4) in North Carolina focused on building Black political power. His organizing career began as a teenager through involvement in the civil rights movement, with him eventually being elected as New York State President of the NAACP Youth and College Division at 17 years old. He then organized with the National Democratic Party of Alabama, an interracial third political party, in their historic election victories of 1970. He went to be involved in numerous organizing initiatives in the US, most notably in New York City, Baltimore, Memphis, Nashville, Atlanta, and Jackson, Mississippi. Immediately after Hurricane Katrina, he spent four years organizing African American communities along the Mississippi Gulf Coast to receive disaster relieve leading to the formation of a coalition that negotiated nearly one billion dollars in disaster relieve funding for these communities. He has trained thousands of leaders, including clergy, over the past forty years in community organizing and congregational development. He has also lectured at colleges and universities, including Shaw Divinity School, Hood Divinity School, North Carolina Central Law School, Duke Divinity School, Vanderbilt Divinity School, Garrett Evangelical Methodist Seminary, and UNC Chapel-Hill on theories of social change, community organizing, and leadership. He has also worked internationally with organizations such as Bread for the World, the Sidney Alliance in Australia, and been a consultant to democratization initiatives in Swaziland, Zimbabwe, and South Africa.

Resources for Going Deeper
See the show notes for the previous episode

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This episode discusses the work of Ella Baker and the different traditions and influences that shaped her organizing and her understanding of democracy. Baker didn’t write much and what she did write is not widely available. Instead, her approach is taught through accounts of it by historians of the civil rights movement and her biographers. So it is her life and practice that I focus on in this two part episode. In part 1 of the episode I discuss Baker's biography, her vision of democracy, and her legacy with my colleague, Wesley Hogan. Wesley is Research Professor at the Franklin Humanities Institute at Duke. She has researched and written extensively on the civil rights movement, particularly the work of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (or SNCC) which Baker helped organize and within which Baker was a key figure. And in her most recent book, Wesley examines contemporary movements influenced by Baker such as the Movement for Black Lives and the International Indigenous Youth Council, which is involved in the struggle to stop the Dakota Access Pipeline and protect sovereign control of Indigenous lands.

Guest
Wesley Hogan is Research Professor at the Franklin Humanities Institute at Duke University. She writes and teaches the history of youth social movements, human rights, documentary studies, and oral history. Her book books include, On the Freedom Side, which draws a portrait of young people organizing in the spirit of Ella Baker since 1960; Many Minds, One Heart: SNCC's Dream for a New America (2009) and a volume co-edited with Paul Ortiz entitled, People Power: History, Organizing, and Larry Goodwyn’s Democratic Vision in the Twenty-First Century. Between 2003-2013, she taught at Virginia State University, where she worked with the Algebra Project and the Young People’s Project. From 2013-2021, she served as Director of the Center for Documentary Studies at Duke. She co-facilitates a partnership between the SNCC Legacy Project and Duke,The SNCC Digital Gateway, the purpose of which is to bring the grassroots stories of the civil rights movement to a much wider public through a web portal, K12 initiative, and set of critical oral histories.

Resources for Going Deeper
Charles Payne, “Slow and Respectful Work” & “Mrs Hamer is No Longer Relevant,” I’ve Got the Light of Freedom: The Organizing Tradition and the Mississippi Freedom Struggle (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1996), Ch.’s 8 & 13.

Barbara Ransby, Ella Baker and the Black Freedom Movement: A Radical Democratic Vision (Chapel Hill, NC: University of North Carolina Press, 2003).

J. Todd Moye, Ella Baker: Community Organizer of the Civil Rights Movement (London: Rowman & Littlefield, 2013).

Mie Inouye, “Starting with People Where They Are: Ella Baker’s Theory of Political Organizing,” American Political Science Review 116:2 (2022), 533–546.

Interview with Ella Baker (1968)

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This two-part episode discusses the work of Saul Alinsky, the “dean of community organizing” and the different traditions and influences that shaped his democratic vision. The key texts discussed are his two books: “Reveille for Radicals” published in 1946, and his more well known latter book, “Rules for Radicals,” written in 1971. In this second part of the episode I to talk to Mike Miller. Mike started out in politics as part of the early stirrings of the student movement at UC Berkeley. From there he got involved in the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC), doing work in Mississippi but mostly organizing support for SNCC on the West Coast. That led him to working with Cesar Chavez as part of the Farmworker Movement. Coming off of all of that he ends up as a community organizer based in San Francisco, his home town, but organizing in different locations around the US for many decades until his retirement. His move from SNCC to organizing in the Bay Area was catalyzed by meeting Saul Alinsky who recruited him to work for the Industrial Areas Foundation for a while. I talk to Mike about his relationship with Alinsky and what he thinks was Alinsky’s understanding of democracy.  Towards the end, Mike reflects on the different pathways organizing took after Alinsky died. Along the way, he draws some contrasts between the different kinds of organizing he has been involved in over the years.

Guest:

Mike Miller was a leader in the pre-1960s birth of the student movement at UC Berkeley, a Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) field secretary, and director of a community organizing project initiated by Saul Alinsky. He has been a lead organizer, consultant, mentor and workshop leader in the field of community organizing over many decades. He has taught community organizing, social welfare, and urban politics at UC Berkeley, Stanford, Notre Dame, Lone Mountain, San Francisco State, University of Wisconsin/Milwaukee, and Hayward State. He has also written extensively on the subject and related matters in numerous magazines and journal articles. His books include “A Community Organizer's Tale: People and Power in San Francisco—the 1964 to 1972 story of the Mission Coalition Organization (MCO),” and most recently, a co-edited volume entitled “People Power: The Community Organizing Tradition of Saul Alinsky.” He currently directs the ORGANIZE Training Center: www.organizetrainingcenter.org

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