The Doubting Pilgrim's Story | feat. Rosemary Mahoney

Zinzy and Patrick W join the Flores boys to recap the highlights of season one and talk about how Vine & Fig can do its part to work for change during the Black Lives Matter uprisings around the world. Plus we hint at what big changes are coming in Season Two!

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The Flores boys have moved to Dallas this week and didn't have time to interview anyone but your favorite queer Catholic hosts weren't going to leave you hanging! We still shared a couple stories from our lives with you about our favorite sacred places, the value of good urban planning, and our lives with the saints.

Have you ever gone to help someone and thought to yourself, "oh yeah, this is one hell of a good deed?" And then have you ever fallen flat on your face when you went to do it? Today's guest thinks that's a pretty good metaphor for the Catholic life, and she's got a story to prove it.

Dorothy Fortenberry is not only a devoted Catholic, but she's also a writer and producer on the hit show "The Handmaid's Tale." We talked about what faith is really all about, sticking it out in a church that acts like it doesn't want you, and the need for utopian stories in a world like today's.

Dorothy Fortenberry
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Do you remember the first time you met someone who was gay and didn't see it as a conflict with their Christianity? Do you remember how revolutionary that seemed? Even a little bit dangerous?

Today we talked with writer and essayist Sam McKenzie Jr. about a friendship that challenged him to accept his sexuality. Both were Christian and both were gay, but only one thought those pieces of their life could go together.

Come hear a story about the value of lifelong friends and the power of seeing someone live out what you thought was impossible.

Sam's McKenzie Jr.'s Writing
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A fight in the parking lot, a 6'5" drag queen, a new translation of the Mass parts, and Evanescence. How did we fit all that into one episode? Adam Gautille, that's how.

We talk a lot about how Vine & Fig is a community for queer Catholics, but it's also for Catholic allies. Straight folks need a place where they can learn more about the LGBTQ community within their churches, and the truth is, we need them to understand and to speak up.

So this week we invited Adam Gautille, a professional musician and music minister at a Catholic Church and official straight guy to explain how he went from a conservative in Texas, to a proud friend of the community who gets wild at gay bars and makes sure to use the right pronouns leading choir practice, all just from listening and learning to love queer people. It's an inspiring conversation that gives a lot of hope for the future of the Church!

Adam Gautille
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If you wanted to believe, to remain a part of the church, but after all you've been through just couldn't, how far would you go to try? Our guest today is the author Rosemary Mahoney and she did something many LGBTQ Catholics will be familiar with - she kept trying to make it work.

Her book the Singular Pilgrim is about her time following six different pilgrimages around the world, attempting to figure out what makes belief work. Why is it some have it and others don't? And is it possible to get it back once you've lost it? We talked with Rosemary about all of that, and maybe most importantly, whether or not the Catholic Church is worth fighting to stay a part of, when so much inside you tells you it's no longer your home.

Rosemary Mahoney
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There's nothing easy about coming out. And no guarantee anyone will love the you you've shared. But Max Kuzma, in coming out as a trans to his family, to his friends, to his church,  knew that what he was sharing came straight from God.

Max was one of our very first Vine & Fig community members and is documenting his transition on his website for other trans Catholics to know they're not alone.

Max's website
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The Catholic Church has long insisted that its priests be celibate and that homosexual acts are forbidden. But how many of its priests, bishops, and cardinals are gay? And what if many of them are leading double lives, condemning the LGBTQ community by day and inviting their boyfriend up for dinner by night?

Today on the podcast we talked with Frédéric Martel, author of the bestselling book In the Closet of the Vatican, a investigation into the hidden lives of so many Catholic clergy. Frédéric says he is not interested in scandal or outing priests, but in talking openly about a larger culture within the Church that has allowed so many gay men who are not ready for celibacy to become the public face of Catholicism.

Frédéric Martel
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You're used to hearing stories about Catholics coming to terms with their sexuality later in life, but what about the folks who have always been comfortable and open about their queerness, and have to come to terms with their Catholicism?

Today we have on Zinzy Nev Geene to tell a story about how a discussion with a professor made her realize the Catholicism she thought she had left behind was still very much alive inside her. 

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Ever feel like an outsider in the church? Like being you and being Catholic don't match up? You're not alone and this is the episode for you. For the stubborn believer who struggles to see their place but isn't ready to give up trying.

Author and spiritual director Kaya Oakes joined us to share a story about a hot priest who came into her life at the most unexpected moment and taught her an important lesson that launched her career as a spiritual writer.

Kaya Oakes' Contact
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