Upcoming Interview with Megan Finnel: Lighting Round Bonus Episode

Roberto DaCosta shares his thoughts on the metaverse with Nick Borelli.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Full episode with Roberto available 12/23/22.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to exchange where we discuss what's next for intentional experience design with expert change agents. This season focuses on demystifying the Metaverse and explaining how the foundations of this emerging reality will change how we all come together. In this podcast summary, we’re visiting with change agent, Benjamin Bertram Goldman, Executive Producer at Ethic.

Does the Metaverse exist?

There's a singular, uppercase “M” Metaverse, which doesn't exist yet. It helps to think of the Metaverse as a place, a new place that's coming into existence. Just like we capitalize the names of countries, towns or cities, it carries a similar logic.

Is the uppercase “M” Metaverse inevitable?

We are inevitably marching toward the Metaverse. That said, the Metaverse is not inevitable. There are many things that could derail the Metaverse. Certain powers have an interest in not seeing the Metaverse take shape because it's an extremely disruptive idea. It will inevitably shake up the world in a lot of ways. Whether it's government or corporate, there are powerful centralized players that don't want to see the Metaverse come to fruition. They feel threatened by the decentralized component of the Metaverse. However, it is something we're marching toward. Given enough time, it will come into existence. 

How will the Metaverse affect culture?

The Metaverse, in its final form, will be culturally shocking. In many ways, video games are a good starting point if you want to trace the lineage of the Metaverse. If you look at the history of video games, you'll notice that it was a very culturally intense experience for the world. it created a lot of backlash and people weren't prepared for what it unleashed. Whether political or institutional backlash, eventually,games overcame it. With the Metaverse, we'll see [the same thing] at a completely different order of magnitude. The Metaverse will challenge notions such as identity, freedom of expression and ownership/IP.

Will the immersive nature of the Metaverse trigger pushback?

The immersive nature of the Metaverse is its greatest strength and it's greatest danger. Components of the Metaverse exist already and have existed for decades. Perhaps the single most important component of the Metaverse that already exists is the concept of virtual worlds. The Metaverse is a network of virtual worlds. Virtual worlds are extremely powerful as a result of their immersive nature. In the minds of players [think video games], there is no distinction between what happens in a virtual world versus what happens in the real world. Sure, there’s a matter of degree, but people form relationships with other players, deep connections with their avatars and their property. 

That is what makes these virtual worlds so enriching, but it also allows the dangers of things like pure escapism or player-to-player abuse or harassment - so much more pronounced than they are on a normal social platform. We are not yet prepared for the day when people are stepping into these virtual worlds and they're not just staying for a few hours in the evening, they're actually inhabiting an entirely parallel life, an identity. That would create an enormous amount of culture shock. It'll spawn generations of philosophical debates about what we're doing to ourselves.

What are motivators for adopting the Metaverse?

From a personal use standpoint, one of the major motivators will be the ability to create another identity. It's one of the most natural things in the world for people to have multiple identities. In some ways, it represents the ultimate in freedom. We inherit so much environmentally, genetically and culturally that we can't control. If we believe in this idea of freedom in its ultimate form, then, in some sense, we should have the freedom to create our own identity as well. In the real world, it might be hard to invent an identity and have it recognized in the real world. In the Metaverse, there's no reason why we should have to have our identities mapped one-to-one in the virtual world. 

If you take it beyond the individual, the Metaverse represents the first and perhaps only opportunity in our lifetime to experiment with creating entirely new social models, government models or economic models. How many of our models are relics of earlier thinking of less enlightened times? Enacting change is extremely slow and grueling in the real world, In the Metaverse, we have an opportunity to start over and bring our best ideas to bear in an entirely new virtual world. This idea of starting over is one of the single greatest arguments for creating the Metaverse.

How do we create a more equitable environment?

The powerful thing about the Metaverse, the same reason it's powerful from a socializing perspective, it makes it more natural. We don't have to ask: how do you make the Metaverse more equitable. We have to ask how do we make society more equitable. The Metaverse is just a society in virtual form. The Metaverse moves technology beyond Web 2. it makes it more human.

What would make the metaverse inevitable?

A movement of people.

The best part of the Metaverse is or will be?

Creating identities and finding communities.

What's missing in digital communication right now?

Humanity.

What would it take for people to want to work, even partially, in a Metaverse setting?

Opportunity.

What's a positive change that could come to the world from the adoption of the mature Metaverse?

A global society.

What should people be worried about with the onset of the Metaverse?

Mass surveillance.

Listen to the podcast.

Guest Bio – Benjamin Goldman

Producer, filmmaker, and media entrepreneur featured in the NY Times, CNN, WIRED, MSNBC, HBO, TechCrunch, BBC, FUJI TV, and Metavision, Benjamin Goldman is leading the creation of a virtual production studio at the sustainable investing firm, Ethic, in addition to serving as a Metaverse advisor to multiple companies.

About Allseated 

Backed by more than a decade of innovation, Allseated sets the standard in 3D virtual reality solutions and digital experiences for the events industry. Allseated powers virtual and hybrid events for some of the world's leading corporations. In 2022, the company launched Meetaverse, a platform that makes it easy to build corporate metaverses. Allseated.com.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Full episode with Benjamin available 11/28/22.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to exchange where we discuss what’s next for intentional experience design with expert change agents. This season focuses on demystifying the Metaverse and explaining how the foundations of this emerging reality will change how we all come together. In this podcast summary, we’re visiting with change agent, Anne-Marie Enns, Executive Producer of the Immerse Global Summit, Global Events Director for the VR/AR Association and the Immerse Growth Network. 

Does the Metaverse exist?

The lowercase “m” metaverses [miniverses] are already there. The capital “M” Metaverse, no, but it will happen. It’s a matter of how the [miniverses] roll-out, how interactive, interchangeable they are.  

The Metaverse players  

“The key question is who’s going to do it. It’s going to be the small companies that have been working on the Metaverse for a long time, before Metaverse became a term (and large companies tried to plant their flags), that will make the Metaverse happen.”. 

The creator economy, it’s going to be amazing to watch what happens with it.  

Information will no longer be limited, consolidated 

In Web 2 (the current version of the Internet), information is controlled by a few large organizations and simply distributed to the masses. Web 3 levels the playing field, supporting creative ownership for everyone. You own your content and control what happens to your content. The impact of what’s created will be much greater because of expanded accessibility and freedom of creativity.  

Moving from consumption to experience 

The metaverse is based on immersive technology grounded in intentional experience design. We’ve been working in the immersive tech space for awhile, but COVID helped make things happen more quickly. Immersive technology supports an amazing sense of community. There’s something welcoming about it. It gives people a chance to interact with others and to work on projects that they otherwise wouldn’t have. Metaverse platforms support relationships, providing the ability to collaborate in immersive, intentionally designed environments. It’s easily accessible for everyone. Interactive, experience-driven spaces are replacing consumption-based, content broadcast spaces.  

The Metaverse supports creativity 

It’s enjoyable [working in the Metaverse]. For the first time, you can share in creating part of history, and it’s super fun. That’s awesome. It’s great to have the freedom and openness to try new things. 

Where does work/life intersect with the Metaverse?  

The Metaverse has to be inspiring. There has to be a balance. You can build workspaces that have an element of fun. You have the design flexibility to do subtle things to make workspaces more personal and comfortable. 

When the capital “M” Metaverse is realized, what will we have gained? 

It’s about connection, community, and openness. The ability to be truly diverse and inclusive in what we’re doing rather than just saying so. it’s our opportunity to design for people. 

The best part of the Metaverse is or will be? 

Bringing together global communities of people in really creative, fun ways – having them work together, create together, design together, and play together. 

What could hold back the Metaverse from being fully realized or even derailed? 

People trying to control it, own it. There’s a lot of different groups trying to define the ethics, the rules and the laws. it’s already delaying it as you segment the market. 

What’s missing in digital communication right now that the Metaverse will add? 

The sense of being there, seeing people, feeling like you can touch people. Some of the experiences that are available now, you actually feel like you’re in them. The emotion is real, you get lost in it. 

What would it take for people to want to work, even partially, in a Metaverse setting? 

The environment has to be easily accessible, the navigation needs to be easy, it must be visually appealing, and it has to be inspiring. 

What’s a positive change that could come to the world from the adoption of the Metaverse? 

The digital footprint, not having as much of a physical footprint. 

What should people keep their eyes open for as the Metaverse matures? 

It’ll be fun to see what experiences and what worlds come out of unexpected places. 

Listen to the podcast.

Guest Bio – Anne-Marie Enns 

Anne-Marie Enns has produced events with world-class organizations such as the VR/AR Association, NCFA, TED Conferences, Honda Celebration of Light, CANFAR, White Ribbon Campaign, and Archiact. Enns is also the Executive Producer of the Immerse Global Summit, which brings together leaders in the immersive space to create and share content on topics such as virtual and augmented reality, the metaverse, blockchain, NFT’s, AI, medical advancements, education, and enterprise. 

About Allseated  

Backed by more than a decade of innovation, Allseated sets the standard in 3D virtual reality solutions and digital experiences for the events industry. Allseated powers virtual and hybrid events for some of the world’s leading corporations. In 2022, the company launched Meetaverse, a platform that makes it easy to build corporate metaverses. Allseated.com. 

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Full episode with Anne Marie available 10/28/22.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to exchange where we discuss what's next for intentional experience design with expert change agents. This season focuses on demystifying the Metaverse and explaining how the foundations of this emerging reality will change how we all come together. In this podcast summary, we’re visiting with change agent, Stefano Corazza, ____ and former VP, Fellow of Augmented Reality at Adobe.

Does the Metaverse exist?

The lowercase “m” metaverse - there are so many out there today [where platform providers have their own separate metaverses and control much of the user content and experience]. The uppercase “M” Metaverse doesn't exist yet. The uppercase ”M” Metaverse assumes all lowercase “m” metaverses areinterconnected, which they aren't. So, for now it's lowercase “m” metaverse only. There are two diverging forces. One tends to aggregate everything toward one [interoperable] uppercase “M” Metaverse. Then,there’s another breaking them down into silos [lowercase “m” metaverses with no interoperability]. They can’t talk to each other. It's going to be a long battle, but at the end, some level of interconnection will be achieved.

Who benefits the most from the interconnected Metaverse?

Movement toward the Metaverse includes developing file formats for interconnectivity, pushing an extension of the current GTLF standard and avatar systems that work across multiple worlds. The big brands may push for this interconnected Metaverse. For example, a brand may want that Gucci purse to exist with total fidelity across as many metaverses as possible. The metaverse platform owners, at some point, may allow for more of that. It also depends on the overall sentiment of the people because just by visiting one metaverse versus another it is, in itself, a statement that people support more open metaverses over less open metaverses.

What’s the promise of the Metaverse, what does it solve?

The Metaverse, as a truly immersive interactive environment, has a mix of internet and online gaming, amazing special audio, and maps. It’s the convergence of all this into something that feels natural, although there are a few missing pieces. One of them is the ability not only to represent your digital identity, but to move your digital identity accordingly - feeling natural movement, being able to apply your facial expression to your avatar, being able to wave, do all the nonverbal communication that we do with other people. It's going to feel really good.

Implications for business

It feels like the new work environment in the Metaverse may be an extension of our leisure time experiences in a way that is a bit unpredictable because those two worlds have always been very separate. Do you want to do a video conference, or do you want to play a game? The lines are getting blurred. A lot of the technology built for gaming is fantastic for real-time collaboration for work that you don't have when you use a video conferencing tool. We’ll see a lot of the real-time collaboration infrastructure built in these metaverses. They could provide a real-world solution for work and B2B in the future, more than we expect.

What is remote work missing?

One thing that's missing is the random encounter in the corridor. You don't have it because everything is so prescripted when you're working remotely. If there's a way to hang out in this type of virtual world, then there's a way to have these encounters. It would require that everyone be persistently in these platforms.

What’s the next stage?

Visualization and embodiment through wearable devices. Combine the viewable Metaverse with wearable technology so you can move around. I have wearable technology that I can put on, move and broadcast my facial expression in real time, but I'm stuck to a monitor. Once glasses are here and you can connect with your phone, that means you can move with a lot of freedom. The wearable device and the experience are all in the same location, and it feels much more natural. You must learn less about how to operate in the Metaverse because the real-world rules apply perfectly, one-to-one.

Why is the Metaverse inevitable?

It's the natural evolution of communication.

What's the best part of what the Metaverse is or will be?

The same platform that you use to hang out, you can use it to make movies.

What's missing in digital communication right now?

The ability to stream everything about your body and your facial expression seamlessly.

What would it take for people to want to work in the Metaverse?

It needs to be fun and efficient, and I'm not sure where there yet.

What's a positive change to the world through the adoption of the Metaverse?

It can bring a lot of empathy for other people.

What people should be worried about with the onset of the Metaverse?

Make sure you get your information from the media straight and support open standards.

Listen to the podcast.

Guest Bio – Stefano Corazza

Stefano Corazza is very passionate about new and immersive media and animation. 

About Allseated

Backed by more than a decade of innovation, Allseated sets the standard in 3D virtual reality solutions and digital experiences for the events industry. Allseated powers virtual and hybrid events for some of the world's leading corporations. In 2022, the company launched Meetaverse, a platform that makes it easy to build corporate metaverses. Allseated.com.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Full episode with Stefano Corazzo will be available September 23.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to exchange where we discuss what’s next for intentional experience design with expert change agents. This season focuses on demystifying the Metaverse and explaining how the foundations of this emerging reality will change how we all come together. In this podcast summary, we’re visiting with change agent, Leslie Shannon, Nokia’s Head of Innovation and Trend Scouting.

Does the Metaverse exist?

Where we are with the Metaverse right now is where we were with the internet in 1993. So, it exists. It’s certainly not anything like its future format. In 1993, we didn’t even really have a good search engine for the internet. It was just a bunch of unconnected webpages and email. That’s where we are on the Metaverse. There’s no connective tissue yet, but the individual areas that will one day be connected and form this grander fusion of the physical and the digital, which is really where all this is going, there’s plenty of those elements. The elements are there, what’s missing are the things that connect the elements together.

What will it take for mass adoption of the Metaverse?

Well, it’s really a hardware game at the moment, the same way that you couldn’t access the Internet without a computer, the same way that you couldn’t access the Internet without a computer you can’t access the Metaverse without your laptop. Moreover, the hardware of the VR headset is critical. The hardware needs to support the virtual reality and augmented reality experience where we have that union of the physical world around us and the visual digital elements showing us the unseen, making the invisible visible for both information and entertainment. That’s the bigger play, the more important one because that’s actually where we start moving away from smartphones toward head-mounted devices that become our main computing interface. This is something that’s going to develop over the next decade.

Connectivity is key. As it evolves, the Metaverse will rely on organizations providing business-to-business networking solutions. Nokia sold its handset business, and phone business to Microsoft almost 10 years ago. Since then, Nokia has been a business-to-business network company. It creates the communications networks behind enterprises. Nokia’s interest in this is building the connectivity for this because you need fabulous connectivity to make any of this work. The next wave beyond virtual reality headset adoption, which may not actually happen, is the big game is augmented reality headset adoption. AR and VR will shade into each other. The big game is augmented reality headset adoption. AR and VR will shade into each other.

The thing with virtual reality is when you put on that headset as wonderful as it is, as immersive it is, and as life changing as it can be, you’re cutting yourself off from the physical world. You are consciously taking yourself away from everything else. It’s like going to a movie theater where you have a wonderful immersive experience, but after a couple of hours, you come out again. So, this idea that we’re going to do everything in that version of the Metaverse – no. There’s a fatigue. It’s too much cutting off from everything else.

What problem does the Metaverse solve?

There’re all kinds of fabulous technology out there, but it doesn’t get popular unless it solves a problem. In the virtual reality version of [the Metaverse], we’re entering a world where getting on a plane and going to see people face-to-face all the time may not always be the best solution in terms of sustainability and putting carbon into the atmosphere. Meeting other people all the time in a two-dimensional screen has its limitations too, especially if you’re dealing with creative collaboration or something very sensitive where you need to see a lot of body nuance. Meetings in virtual reality are much, much better than a two-dimensional meeting in Teams or Zoom. Those are excellent tools, but for collaboration, particularly in three-dimensional spaces, there is nothing better than being in a fully realized three-dimensional world, talking, working with other people’s avatars through the virtual reality headset. It catches your head inclination, even if it’s not catching the subtleties of your face and the way your hands are moving, you can get a good idea of how somebody is thinking and moving. It’s surprisingly good given that it’s only three movement points on the person’s body.

The Metaverse is about experiences

Studies show that, as human beings, the way that our brains work, we form memories in virtual reality in the three-dimensional space very similarly to the way that we form memories when we’re in the physical world. But if we’re looking at a two-dimensional screen, that forms a different kind of memory. Having the experience of being in VR, in terms of how your brain perceives it, is very close to being in the physical world.

Why is the Metaverse inevitable?

We are always finding new ways to reach out to each other. And this is a way that we can erase time and space distances and be with each other in a way that actually has meaning.

What’s the best part of what the Metaverse is or will be?

Freedom to do things and freedom from things. In a digital world, everything is possible.

What would it take for people to want to work in the Metaverse?

We are going to need to have a hardware change.

What’s a positive change to the world through the adoption of the Metaverse?

Better understanding of other people and cultures.

Is there anything people should be worried about with the onset of the metaverse?

Privacy issues.

Guest Bio – Leslie Shannon

5G, augmented/virtual/mixed reality, visual analytics, next-gen gaming, artificial intelligence, machine learning, and more. As Nokia’s Head of Innovation and Trend Scouting, Leslie Shannon spends her time looking at emerging technologies and how they’re going to change our lives.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Full episode with Leslie Shannon will be available on August 26th.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.