Gabe Rissman 00:06
Hi and welcome to another episode of your steak your story. We're a video series with advisors and for advisors focused on highlighting best practices around values based investing. Today I'm really excited to have Dave and michelina with me. Dave has been working in the financial industry for more than 20 years. And fair planet advisors represents the culmination of Dave's years of professional experience, combining his passion for protecting the goals and dreams of his clients, and doing so in a sustainable matter. And Melina is excited to bring her passion for individuals in those they love to fair planet advisors, she's committed to building a just and sustainable world for all their professional and personal life. They have michelina really excited to have you on. Thanks. Good. Cool. So I'm gonna start with my favorite question that I always asked at the beginning. Just with the audience would love to know a little bit about you. Where'd you grow up? Was your journey to financial advising? And maybe how did you meet?
David Roth 01:10
How did we meet? Oh, that's, that's a whole nother SIX series, how we got into where we are now. So I grew up in the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania area. So my mom joined the military. And she went on and I went with her to a number of different base assignments. So as a military brat throughout high school, ending up in Frankfort, West Germany, all of her siblings were big eight or big six CPAs. So I was basically voluntold from them that I was going to be an accountant, I didn't really have a choice. My mom was a psychiatric nurse practitioner. So she was in the medical field. And it's 25 years in the military. So after graduating college doing accounting, I realized I didn't want to be back office anymore. I wanted to do service, I wanted to help clients more than just pushing numbers. And I discovered this thing called Investing in finance. And that kind of started the path on to being a front office support to clients.
Michelina Roth 02:06
And I grew up in the Pacific Northwest in Southern Oregon. I had a family that was really involved in the social justice movement. And really, that was a big part of conversations around the dinner table. And so that was always really important to me, I went to college to study French and theology, I kind of just that philosophical approach and interested in making connections with people. So I did a year abroad in France and that ability to connect with people I was just really passionate about. And then we met in Denver, Colorado, through actually through through some youth group stuff and just church activities. And I got married a year later. And when we had our first children child, I decided to be a stay at home mom and went on to homeschool our boys was really passionate about helping them feeling like the most important thing for them to learn was who they are and what was important to them. And so I've been doing that for the last 20 years basically, and about three years ago joined our business really excited about also bringing that message to other people. I feel like that's what ESG investing is, is is helping people connect with what's important to them. And not we just our planet can't afford to have people who hold their noses and don't live the way they believe and know is true in their hearts. So
David Roth 03:22
I gave you mentioned kind of the audiences or other advisors that do what we do. So they'll also relate to this comment probably that we sometimes find ourselves kind like being marital counselors for our clients. So I'm going to share a little bit here so I'm gonna government owe you a copay for a little marital counseling here on our, our podcast. But when we were deciding where to go back, Kellyanne and I were dating, I was working for what I thought was my forever job Smartscope Capital Management, Denver, Colorado as CFO right out of college thinking, while I'm in the industry, I'm doing accounting for large cap mutual fund, this is gonna be fun. And Mick wanted to go to grad school. So we did the won't tell us what and why write the pros cons list. So I put together this giant thesis of all the reasons why we should stay in Denver, I should continue to work for this firm, and how it's going to benefit our family. And Michelina had basically two words on her side, you promised and so we moved, and we left the job. And that was the launching into because we got to I got to see behind the scenes of what goes on in that industry versus just accounting. So it really planted that seed. And we had no clue but ended up working for a venture finance firm after that and continue in the accounting world, that we would then circle back around to that passion that was instilled by this working at that farm for a few months. So she was right. I did promise but who knew that that was kind of decisive in our in our whole business plan.
Gabe Rissman 04:42
That's amazing. I'm so excited to dive into a lot of what you said I just want to start at I always liked the decision points. It's really interesting to hear about why you made a particular like life transition and path so you wanted to move out of the back office into the front office. How did you go about doing that? What Is that? Like, did you bounce around for a while before you settled on what you're doing? And then if you want to both talk about, like, from that journey, how you came to fair planet, that'd be, that'd be really cool.
David Roth 05:14
I will say, doing different careers, learning the things that we didn't know, really built our bandwidth. So we're better advisors were a better team. I mean, going through that process, even back when we were first decided to leave Denver or not, that was critical to how we built our business or not, right? There's certain times where you just have to have a partner relationship that you have this trumps all else. ESG was one of those moments later on. We didn't know what at the time, but we're building towards that. And so even the way we do all the other stuff in the family was building towards that. So
Michelina Roth 05:48
yeah, I mean, I don't know that I have a whole lot to add to that. But we we've always made our decisions together. And we did have Dave started out, he has worked for a couple other firms before we were independent. And then when he was first independent, he was doing a lot of DSP for but when we talked about knee joint coming in joining the team, I said, let's just go under percent. This is what we believe in. This is what we've always done in everything else we do, you know, in terms of conscious shopping, and considering fair trade and sourcing and all of those things, we'd always been making those decisions. And so it made sense, to just continue that and say, This is what we do. 100%.
David Roth 06:27
And one thing I'll add is all the sales training I've ever been through, whether you're talking insurance or investments, they're always like, Oh, just you know, fake it till you make it in my mind in ESG, you really can't fake it, if you really are talking about it and doing talking to clients that are really passionate about it. It was an easy transition for us because we were already living this organic life, we already want it to be values based because that's how we did things at home. You know, whether it was I was Rotarian, or scouting, you know, when I was 17, you know, someone told me, no one should ever have to ask you to if you're an Eagle Scout, your action should just show it an ESG. Someone shouldn't have to ask us for ESG. It's just we exude that it's what we do. It's how we are we got be certified because it was the right thing to be a B Corp. We aligned with USF because it's the right thing. So it just it just should be there.
Gabe Rissman 07:16
I love that. So So you were running your own practice. And then when michelina was going to join, you were already doing some ESG and then went all in? Can you talk about what that was like? And? And what was available for you? And how, like, did you have to what what were all the things that you had to change to go from maybe exploring yesterday a little bit into into all with?
Michelina Roth 07:40
Well, Dave, started at our annual broker dealer conference, we were looking for more and better options. We were meeting with a couple of different folks and just exploring things and we went to a seminar.
David Roth 07:55
So everyone on the call has been if there have been with a broker dealer, you go to the national conferences, you have the tracks, like what which topics do you want to go listen to. And so we're watching this from home going, Okay, here's where we want to go. And we see the track. It's like ESG investing, and we're going, we want to align with ESG. This, we're going that track. So we start going into this. And we're going through all the large we know conversation Hall at the big convention center. And they have an opportunity for questions. So I'm not very shy. So I raise my hand I stand up. And I and there's a board up there with all the different panelists. And I go Excuse me, Mr. Mrs. National Fund leader who's making all these decisions? How do you determine and what do you use to evaluate your funds based on ESG? Information? Because we want to know we're trying to learn like, how do we do this? What's our story about our client,
Michelina Roth 08:40
and this is the breakout session on ESP fMRI, you're the experts,
David Roth 08:46
give them just like all 1000s of advisors, this is the moment you all are gonna go here. And they looked at me and they said, Oh, just trust us. And I said, I'm sorry, I must rephrase my question. Well, I wanted to know what specifically you do that says that fun versus this fun under your umbrella is ESG. And I'm thinking in the back of my head, what do you change light bulbs and the security standard? And now all of a sudden, your ESG? Because that's an LED versus you know, the old style? And again, there's Oh, no, you know, we're just that's a core of our nature. It's who we are. And I'm going back to like, well, if you were my neighbor, I would look at how you live and do everything. But since you're a large manager, having worked in management firms with this, like, there's a lot of back behind the scenes work that goes in. And if you can't tell me the process, that probably means there is no process because if that moment, you would probably be singing your praises, like thank you for asking. Let me just, you know, give you all the overall sales that we're always told not to do with the, you know, too much, that was just lacking. And so we just sat down like disheartened, like, we can't be ESG because we couldn't find it. We didn't know where to go where our national conference we're getting no answers. And then someone comes up and says this what happens?
Michelina Roth 09:57
Yeah, another financial advisor. ever said that? Thank you for asking that question. That was a ridiculous answer that they gave you. And I'm, you know, want to share what I know. And, and that was the beginning of getting involved in in the ESG community and feeling wasn't like, Hey, your clients from me or there's a competition, it was just, I believe in what I'm doing from this other advisor. And I will help you and I will show you what I have learned over the last 30 years. So,
David Roth 10:28
and it was really one of those moments where I went from Doggy Dog Commission's base, I'm going to steal your client, if you're not there to take the phone calls, because your person sitting next to you is going to take that lead to way we're ESG Sri advisors, we're here to help each other, better the planet better the world. And I'm going to show you everything that I do. And oh, by the way, I'm in a different chain. I'm not getting any override on you or anything else. But I'm going to open up the entire toolbox. And she did was a she in this case, and she just loved on us. And it was one of those most refreshing moments because we were just down and out like how we build this business. How do we do it? There are no answers. That's an
Gabe Rissman 11:08
amazing story. And I don't know if I've ever heard a clear, like, this is the moment or I need to do something. And you had that guardian angel that that came in. I've I've also the reason why I love being in this space, is we found that as a technology provider, people want to welcome you into the community, we found that people want to, like, everyone loves being introduced to the ESG study group and just forming these bonds, because it's a shared mission, which I guess you don't really see as much across the industry. So I think that's really cool. And you've been a big part of, of being part of our community, which is really amazing. What were some of the things that maybe surprised you? Or what were the biggest roadblocks that you've had to overcome that this advisor and then others in the community as you continue on your journey?
David Roth 11:53
Well, you'll remember us trying to get your state onto our platform took about 13,000 years, I think was well over a year. And I think I was the only advisor ever asking to get something like your information your platform in and why our due diligence departments like, but why why do you want this and we had to walk them through and educate them. And that I think they now finally see why why is it important? Because it's a data tool. And we need that information that was lacking, that the other mutual fund managers didn't have the time that the industry is shifting towards. So that's been a part of is trying to push the envelope. And we're going against these stereotypes of if you're an ESG, you're gonna take a haircut, if you're an ESG, you're only gonna have two or three options, you're not gonna have anything available, you're not going to really get the data because no one's really providing anything. All of those things have been disproven for the most part. And I think clients are now able to make better choices, because there's data points available.
Gabe Rissman 12:55
So it seems like having a tool to show the data was a really crucial part. And now we're getting a lot more people requesting that. But when you were getting started, you're right, it was totally new, and no one knew why you need an ESG tool. Was it also difficult to find investment options? Was it difficult to have that conversation with clients about financial performance? Was it difficult? Did you ever have to do things like come up with an SSRI policy statement, war, war, all the things that maybe you didn't even think about? Or what were the biggest challenges in in making that transition?
David Roth 13:28
I think once we heard from the other advisor, they already kind of Blazing that trail, a lot of those other roadblocks that would have been kind of like insurmountable, we're already kind of clear, because we're able to build upon those were before us. So there are industry leaders that have been doing this 30 and 40 years plus, that when we look at what they've brought to the table over those years, we're really standing on their shoulders. Yeah. And it kind of makes us pause and go as we meet new advisors or other opportunities, it's our responsibility to share that same data. And that leads from the standpoint of there's plenty of business, we need to operate from the sense of abundance versus scarcity so that others can do what we were so fortunate to get introduced to.
Michelina Roth 14:13
Yeah, it was actually relatively easy. I feel like once we got past that initial hurdle, we haven't faced that many roadblocks. I mean, certainly there. There are little difficulties, but mostly it's been, it's been pretty easy to find. And to serve clients.
David Roth 14:29
We moved from that, you know, just trust us thing to now trust but verify with the data. And then as the world has changed, we as a firm have come out with statements of support for different areas, that sometimes some of our clients that were earlier on before we made kind of the switch to be, I would say big tree hugging firm that we are realized, oh, maybe you're a little bit too ESG for us. So we came out with a support during the riots and different things with the plan. Lives Matter.
Michelina Roth 15:01
Right after George played smarter, we put out a statement in support of Black Lives Matter. And we lost a client over that. And we were actually it was, I mean, I was completely okay with it. But it was, it was hard to lose that relationship.
David Roth 15:16
But we kind of pride ourselves as a firm, I can count on literally two hands in the last 10 years, the number of clients we've lost for whatever reason other than passing away, right? So when I lose a client, when we lose a client, I'm emotional. But I'm like, Whoa, what happened? We're and this is not one of those that we know the family, there's all that it was just, we've gone a direction that's taking them a little too far. And but we're okay with that. As a firm, we have to push that envelope, we have to do what we believe in, or otherwise, we're just not a firm. We're just, you know, faking it. And we won't fake it.
Gabe Rissman 15:50
As you delve more into ESG. What was it like having those conversations with clients that were already working with you before you started talking about this? How did you have that conversation with clients that were
David Roth 16:01
not involved, and we introduced them to ESG, it was almost like a breath of fresh air, because some of them didn't know what they didn't know. And here's that relationship. Most clients want to work with you as a firm as whatever, because they trust you. They like the branding, or they trust you as advisors. So when we come to a client, and we're sharing with our overall client base, they had no idea what these acronyms meant. But we had the education, we had the background, we had their backs, we had that best interest piece, that fiduciary thing, before people were forced into doing it, we're already thinking, this is already good for you. Let's talk about this. So if you could make this decision based upon your values, and if we can show you that it probably isn't gonna hurt you on diversification and performance. Why wouldn't you want to do this? Because it's not as telling you your values. It's us asking you, Mr. Mrs. client, or entity or nonprofit? What are your values? What's important to you? What do you want to stand with? What do you want to stand against? And if we can make that happen? Would that be okay? That piece has been very powerful.
Michelina Roth 17:06
And I think there's been a shift in these last few years, people, people don't want to not know anymore. They don't want to hold their noses, they. So they're very refreshed to hear oh, I can know what's happening. And I can feel good about it. And I'm still going to be okay.
Gabe Rissman 17:24
michelina, can you talk about when you were even talking about your philosophy and raising your children? It was helping people find their purpose? What does that look like? What's an example conversation? How do you do that with clients to be able to figure out what ESG means to them?
Michelina Roth 17:40
So we started the conversation by saying, you know, our values aren't necessarily going to be the same as yours. There's lots of hard questions in this industry, we go through sort of an inclusion exclusion process where people can choose, you know, big oil, private, for profit prisons, what things do you want to exclude, some of those things like nuclear, for example, are not going to be the same for for everyone. That's okay. What we what we say is, we really, truly believe if we, if we're going to change this world, collectively, together, we're going to change it so that our children and our children's children have a planet and have a future. We have to as individuals, we have to say, something's important to me, and I'm going to act upon that. And even if we're not all making the same choices, just by listening to our inner voice, and being true to ourselves, like the planet will be better the world we live in will be better. We can't I think we had a long period where people just sort of were numbing themselves and saying, I can't live in this world and do what I believe and live my true, you know, heart's desires for lack of a better expression. I can't do that. And I think that that just breeds hopelessness, if we want to plan it, hope is what we need. So. So that's kind of how we start the conversation is saying, you know, what do you believe in and we'll help you do that.
David Roth 19:01
And I think one of the things that we've been end with with clients is, well, there's this decision of how to include or exclude or divest from, but that doesn't even touch on the shareholder advocacy piece of it. So you can go into and say, I don't want to be an X, Y, or Z. And I'm going to hold my nose if I have to buy a plastic toothbrush, because that's the only way that toothbrushes are coming for it's hypothetical example, right? But you can then decide, I'm going to go to those makers. And we want to put a shareholder piece with and say, Let's not make those things out of plastic anymore. Can we do with bamboo or make them out of cement, whatever it is, right, the right answer, and move that bar. And so when people hear there's a dual prong approach to this, and then we add in comprehensive financial planning with the diversification, we're actually talking about the holistic side of it. They're like, wow, why are more people not doing this? And my question to answer that is like, I don't know, I think if more advisors realized it wasn't that hard to do, I think they would do it. It's just they don't know what they don't know. So this kind of a service to come out and talk and share. If people hear this and go, What are you all doing, call us, we'll tell you, we're not going to hide anything. Because there's how many people in this world that need to make this a better place. We need more people doing this more firms.
Michelina Roth 20:18
And I think most people who are in financial advising are hedge because they care about their clients, right? They want to help their clients live their best lives. We just became a certified B Corp, and the B Corp model is considering all stakeholders, right? So that's clients, that's, that's profit. But that's also sourcing materials, fair trade all of those issues. And it's I think, if you're dealing with your financial advisor, you already want to help your client just ESG allows you to expand that and say, you know, we can help all parts of this equation, and we really come to work every day, super excited and energized. And so I feel like it just could be that for so many more advisors.
Gabe Rissman 21:00
Do you want to tell a couple of examples, stories of maybe even with clients that don't come in knowing that they're all in on ESG? But you can work? Through that? I think that'd be really cool to share?
Michelina Roth 21:12
Do you have someone in mind or situation?
David Roth 21:15
So we've had, I'm going to do some very unfavorable stereotypes, some just put my disclaimer out there. I wouldn't say that there are a few typical clients that may say, we just want profit, right? All we're looking for is return. I hear you, David michelina, that you're kind of touchy feely, and you know, you want to worry about this and that, but we're looking at you for you know, just make sure our retirement accounts there. And we have plenty to spend. Well, we were able to show some numbers and say, Okay, well, if we went this direction, you're gonna get this kind of return. If we go this direction, we'll get that kind of return. And not to say, you know, that whole disclaimer, past history future performance piece, but we're able to line him up and go, you know, what some of the things that we may lean, say more green ESGs arrived, keeping pace, outpacing maybe even way superior performance, or boards that are going to be more receptive to some of the shareholder efficacy pieces, or maybe companies that may actually be here in 30 years, versus people that have just depleted the resources or the industry sector they're in? Where would you want to be when you look at the board of directors don't make up the planet, the resources and all that. And oh, by the way, that piece that you're talking about profit may get sucked along in there as well. And maybe we say it's gonna be better. Some clients are like, absolutely. But don't tell me about all that other stuff, I just wonder about the profit. But either you got us there. So we are kind of, you know, I won't say force feeding, but it kind of feels like you are a little bit because you're like, right, now we can say the numbers are really strong. So if it pivots for those clients, we've got to, you know, stop and rebalance and look, but you know, right now, it's killing it. So
Gabe Rissman 22:57
there are plenty of people convinced by the thesis that ESG is just better investing?
Michelina Roth 23:03
Well, I mean, I think, you know, COVID is a strong example of that, if you were a corporation that wasn't really caring about their employees going into going into a pandemic, then then how do you survive, right, you have to some of these things, just it just makes sense. To me, if you're considering everybody, you're going to be able to last the long haul and profit tomorrow is really nothing if it's not profit, and sustainability for the long term.
David Roth 23:28
And I would say all the advisors on this call, especially if they're listening, because it's you know, the your estate spin in it, realize there are billions of dollars moving from traditional investments over to more of the ESG tranches, if you will. And the big wire houses, there's a reason why they're buying up everybody else out there that has that something, something ESG in them, or some kind of screening values based, because they have to have an answer to retain their clients. So as we look at the next 150 years, whatever it is out there, you know, global investing, if we're not aware of what's going on the planet, we're not going to be here, folks, you know, we've got to shape up and figure this out. And, you know, one of the stories I tell when I'm talking to high school to kids is my theory of you know, the Pottersville versus bay of Bedford Falls, right, which which side of that story you want to be in from, It's a Wonderful Life, you know, and I look back and go, that movie wasn't a big hit, when it came out. It took however many years for it to become irrelevant, you know, ESG now is becoming irrelevant. It took a while for it to get there. But we're at the stage where if we don't all show up, because, you know, mas calm people on the phone, and George needs money. You know, our planet needs help. And we've got to decide which way we're gonna go. And these are those moments where people are gonna watch us. And so you've got to be on visible and honest with your clients. If you've got a passion for leaving something for people behind, stand up and change what we're doing. And this is one way we can do it in our industry is by where we can invest in how we invest, you know, and then we take it to our local communities and our neighbors, but the time is over for somebody else is going to do it for us. Nobody else is going to do it for us.
Gabe Rissman 25:11
Yeah, I'm loving what you're saying, I think that a lot of people will really resonate with that as they're listening to this call. And a lot of people want to know how they can contribute and make a difference. And that's what gets a lot of advisors interested in ESG. There's obviously, people getting into man, but sometimes the advisor drives it based on their values and what they really want to do. So I think that when you believe it, and have that passion, and can speak like the way you do, I'm sure your clients are really receptive to that. Because they, I mean, they get alongside that inspiring comments and realize that they're not sacrificing, or likely not sacrificing returns and getting something that's really more powerful and being part of a movement.
David Roth 25:52
And that's not to say, we haven't had clients walk in the door and go, thank you for sharing, but we really want to do this or that and we look and go, that's not us, and they walk right out the door and they go somewhere else. That's okay. You know,
Michelina Roth 26:04
for most people, knowledge is power, right? So we had, we were talking to and it's one of my issues I'm passionate about, and it was for this person too. And she said to me, that's that's kind of a little bar to just say, Oh, I'm out of out of immigration detention for profit prisons. And I said, You know what, it is a really low bar. But gosh, at least if you care about that, is that something you're gonna show up? Or maybe even protests on the street? Don't you want it out of your investment portfolio? And, and I think a lot of people really just haven't known Oh, I didn't, you know, I had no idea how heavily I was invested in these things that I am adamantly against. So not, you know, knowledge is power. And people are not willing, I think less and less people are willing to just not
David Roth 26:51
know. And I think whether you've kind of asked a couple different ways gave, is that, following the clients and their values, you know, it, it touches on the point of that greenwashing, like, what is greenwashing what is out there? How do you trust but verify that our industry is in a prime situation where we need to have what the FDA had to go through versus natural foods versus certified organic foods, we need clear, auditable statements. And if you're talking Sarbanes Oxley, back in the accounting days, where you are held liable for and responsible for your actions of a firm, if these are true statements or not, we need that in investing. So that we can then say you say this is this, but it's not certified organic, because you're doing all these other things, to simplify it for advisors, and ultimately for clients. Because it's too hard. It shouldn't be this hard that you shouldn't have to dig as hard as we had to dig to get this, you know, we're 3040 years into as an industry. We now need standards.
Gabe Rissman 27:54
couple thoughts and responsible both, you said I think they tied together really well. Last year, there were four major surveys that came out from from giant asset managers. Showing that I mean for decades and decades, the entire history of ESG ESRI financial performance was the big concern among investors for ESRI. But now, for the first time last year, greenwashing and data quality are the biggest concerns among retail and institutional investors. And having a way to show instead of you can't have that trust me argument anymore. Well, that inspired you from the start, that's not going to fly and it shouldn't have ever flown. And I think what you're saying michelina About the for profit prisons, there's a lot more data and knowledge that is out there that clients can find on their own. And if advisers don't have good responses and information themselves, and that's, that's an uncomfortable position they can be and we hear that all the time where advisors are getting educated by by their clients, and they then are inspired to know more. And michelina one last request for you to face Dave while your
David Roth 29:05
bodies have to get close. Good thing we're married, right, we're not getting our problems.
Gabe Rissman 29:14
That's a great point. Um, so if you have anything that you wanted to say in response to that, go for it. I also would love to hear what you currently find to be the most challenging parts of ESRI that you're that you're encountering with clients now.
David Roth 29:29
So I think my biggest thing that I hear, or what I'm seeing from clients that they don't know, is they're buying what I would consider the greenwashing Hey, you know, our old fun family came out with something and I'm okay. And without even naming names, have fun. Everyone has these stories, they can do the research. And you may be in a fund that the fund itself could be phenomenal. But what about the parent company? What about all the other holdings? What about everything else that it's doing? And you can say, Okay, I'm buying my water from a company that has fantastic water, but another side, they're spitting uranium out the doors, right? They're poisoning the water down the road. It's there's a greater impact than just saying that one does check out well. But what about the next one that you're related to Mr. Mrs. Business Owner or board? Are you doing that same thing across the board? Or are you just putting out something so you retain clients? And that's a bigger ask. And some of those large firms have stepped up and supported some shareholder advocacy things that I sit back and go, thank you. That's fantastic. You are really coming to the table. But it was great for that 32nd marketing piece. What are you doing now? What's that next step? Come on, let's get on board because they can make the change in this world as larger firms. You know, we're a small shop, we can help folks, we're not going to change the planet based on the way we got certified as a B Corp. They could, although I will say
Michelina Roth 30:55
I think I think part of the problem all along and people feel like our world is just so big. And you know, what can I do with my little bit, my little tiny investments, everybody feels like they're too small. But really, that's not true. Like you and I, and our neighbor. And each of our clients, we're pushing the bar, we're having that ripple effect. And really, that's all anything ever was, is a ripple effect, you know, of in a positive direction or a negative direction. But what each of us does matters. And I think that that's what we bring to the conversation is it's not just, it's not just, oh, no, I'm just one tiny little frog in the pond, it doesn't matter what I do. No, it does. And you make a difference. And you push those shareholder advocacy conversations, each of us does.
Gabe Rissman 31:43
I love what you're saying. And this is, in terms of how Yes, you can scale as a movement. We found that like three is the tipping point. And I'll explain what that means. We found that when three clients or one really big one asks their advisor for for ESG, they start signing up for demos with us, and they start looking into actual solutions, only three clients out of maybe 100, whoever knows. And then with fund managers, you get three financial advisors, asking the fund manager about their shareholder advocacy asking their fund manager about why are you investing in for profit prisons, whatever else it might be, it really does not take that much because people know that this direction things are headed. So they get a couple squeaky wheels. And they'll get the grease and and you will see that that's what we've seen empirically is that only a little bit of action, and a little bit of using your voice can lead people to really start considering this deeply and trying to come up with solutions.
David Roth 32:46
And that's why we fought our broker dealer so hard to get platforms like you on our platform, because we were going to use you some way, this way or the other anyway, it wasn't so much for our clients, it's for the other 5000 advisors on the platform that then are a part of the larger platform that can roll up and now you're talking, you know, 80,000 advisors really could if they actually asked you, oh, it's already approved. So if you're on this call, and you don't know what your broker dealer has, call your broker dealer, and ask them, it may be already approved by a sister organization somewhere in your tear. So just asked and see what's there.
Gabe Rissman 33:22
Love that. And also, I just wanted to touch on what you were saying earlier about the intentionality of affirm, it sounded like that is I could very much understand that being a really important but a difficult communication challenge. That is not just what your fund is investing in. But it's who's behind that fund. And what firm are they a part of? Do you find that clients are receptive to that kind of logic? Or is that something that they struggle to wrap their minds around? Or what's what's that like?
Michelina Roth 33:52
I think it goes back to knowledge. I think people are really receptive to that they want to know, and there's so much to absorb in this world and our media's news cycle and all of that. So if we have those answers, they're like, yes, please, please let us know. And we will continue the conversation.
David Roth 34:10
Yeah, it's like a client wanting to give to a charity, we can go out there and check out your charity evaluation tools, and you go, Wow, this charity really is taking every dollar you give them maybe a penny or two, and it goes to the boots on the ground for the activity that it's about. That's what we need an ESG. That's what your tool allows us to do is we're able to say, let's drill into this and find out what is it. And then when those holdings keep popping up on all those different values that the client wants. We may not know what the symbol or the ticker is, but we know what the values are that it's getting alerted. And we're able to say it hit on 28 out of 300. Is that enough for us to change or it may just be it hit on one that one hit may be enough for us to move and divest or invest depending on what the criteria is we're looking at. So the facts because otherwise we can't look at the data and the industry and the commodity and what's going on the world and understand what Responding to clients lives, we have to rely on services and tools to allow us to bring those all together for the clients and act as the quarterbacks if you will, for their financial futures.
Gabe Rissman 35:11
Love it. We are running up on time. The last question that I have is your thoughts on where ESG is headed?
Michelina Roth 35:21
Well, I mean, I think the movement is just gonna continue to grow. It gives me a lot of hope, I think hope is really the most, the most promising thing we can do for our world. So I see it growing.
David Roth 35:36
So I'm gonna take it back to where it started. For me, high school in Germany. There were beer purity laws there that I was 17 That shouldn't have known about, but I knew about, and they're still there now. And you don't have to go to Germany and get a certified beer. It's just the way it is. There's just this is how you do beer. And you can do it the right way. I think ESG is going to get that point where it's not going to worry about greenwashing and this tool. It's just we do it the right way. So we need to live on our planet the right way, and stop looking for all these things that tell us, here's how you act. We know how to act, we just need to do it. So I think it's just going to continue to grow.
Michelina Roth 36:15
And I think people want that more and more. I mean, I think it's really exciting to see this movement growing and I think it holds a lot of answers for our planet.
Gabe Rissman 36:25
Love it. So hey, you said that if people want to reach out they should. They should contact you. What's the best way to do that?
David Roth 36:31
email. Go to the website fair planet advisors or info at fair planet advisors. put your questions in. We'll share what we know.
Gabe Rissman 36:41
Thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate this conversation. I learned a lot actually again, and love to hear your stories to that they're sort of really incredible.
Michelina Roth 36:51
Thank you, Gabe. It's so nice to talk to you. We appreciate so much what you're doing
David Roth 36:54
need to get a sax player in your background Miles is good. But you know alto tenor sax, that's the way to go.
Gabe Rissman 37:00
You're playing you're talking about heartstrings right now. I grew up playing trumpet. I got this poster. Oh, I'll move the camera a little showing Miles Davis, for my Bar Mitzvah is Bar Mitzvah gift. I was a trumpet player. And the only reason why I was a trumpet player is I couldn't make the sound on the read. But I am such a big fan of the saxophone. I have so much sax envy. It's, it's why
David Roth 37:22
you're gonna love this third or fourth grade. I'm at school in Pittsburgh and they'd have the band people come out. I'm like, I want to play trumpet. And they put my mouth on trumpet like, Oh, you're gonna play a sax. I'm like, I want to play trumpet. So I played sax through college and all that. And so a little bit of a ying and yang there.
Gabe Rissman 37:40
Yeah, that's what is the opposite situation. So who's your favorite trumpet player
David Roth 37:46
than trumpet? I don't really like him. I'm all sax now. All right, Mr. Wood. You are right.
Gabe Rissman 37:58
It's pretty well send me some of your favorite hits because I'm always looking for new Stax music, so that'd be great.
David Roth 38:07
Sounds good? Yeah, I listen to a lot of day Sandborn so you might get some of that.
Gabe Rissman 38:10
Sounds good. Thank you so much for joining.
David Roth 38:14
But see you bye bye.
