Count Me In®

In a rapidly evolving accounting landscape, how can professionals demonstrate their skills and experience to stand out? Certifications! In this episode, veteran accounting educator and President of HOCK International, Brian Hock outlines the immense value of professional certifications for career-long growth and development. 

Learn how certifications like the CMA provide a standardized body of knowledge to showcase specialized expertise. Discover how the right certifications position you for success as technology and demands transform. Gain perspective on certifications as a strategic investment in your future, increasing opportunities and earning potential over the length of your career. 

Brian draws on extensive experience preparing accounting students and professionals for certifications to offer advice on overcoming barriers like cost or study time. He provides encouragement that passing rigorous exams like the CMA, while requiring dedication, is very achievable with the right preparation and planning.

If you're looking to get strategic and maximize your career potential in accounting, this episode is a must-listen! You’ll come away motivated to pursue professional certifications and equipped with insights to choose the right certifications for your goals.

Full Episode Transcript:
 

Adam:            Today on Count Me In, we have a great episode in store. Our guest is Brian Hock, president of Hock International and an experienced accounting educator. Who has been teaching finance and accounting certifications for over two decades. Brian provides keen insights into the value of professional certifications like the CMA, and how they can benefit accounting professionals throughout their career.

He discusses the importance of certifications in demonstrating specialized knowledge and skills, as well as how certifications, like the CMA, help professionals stay current in a rapidly changing business landscape. Brian offers advice for overcoming barriers to obtaining certifications. Emphasizing the long term career rewards, that make certifications a smart investment. With technologies and an evolving talent gap impacting the accounting field, Brian's perspective is extremely timely. Now, let's welcome Brian Hock.

Adam:            Well, Brian, we're really excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast today. And, just to jump right in, can you share with us, with our listeners, why are certifications so critical, especially in the field of accounting?

Brian:             Well, first, Adam, thanks for having me. It's great to be with you. The question of certifications is one that is very important for somebody's career. And the way I explain it is that there are however many thousands and thousands of universities around the world, and they all have different quality of an accounting program, accounting professors, the classes that they teach. 

And, so, just because somebody has an accounting degree, we aren't really in a position to know what that person knows. What they studied, how they studied, how well they did. But a certification is a specific body of knowledge. A specific syllabus that is the same for everybody who takes it anywhere in the world.

And, so, the term certificate, it's a certification because it's that standardized test that everybody who's passed it has passed the same content. And, so, it's a person's way of showing what they know separate from their university. Because a lot of universities may be very good universities, but they're not known outside the city, the region that they're in. And nobody outside that city or region is aware that the person has such a strong accounting education or finance education. But a certification shows that.

Adam:            It does, and, I think, we're hearing that a lot more. Especially, in the world of accounting, with so many different things happening. So many new technologies coming out there. One of the biggest things we're hearing about is things like the talent gap. So how are certifications helping bridge that talent gap, especially in the finance and accounting sector?

Brian:             Well, a good certification helps bridge that by staying current, and this is something that I know CMA does. I've been teaching CMA for almost 25 years, and it's a number of syllabuses that I've taught. Because what accounting and finance professionals need to know, what they're using on their job, has changed over time. 

And, so, with IMA doing such a good job of keeping the CMA syllabus up to date and relevant. That is part of that talent gap being addressed, by making certain that the people that come out through CMA have those skills. And the obvious example is AI wasn't in the syllabus 20 years ago, but it was put into the syllabus in 2020.

And, so, technology is a big one, as technology changes. As the skill set that people need to use that technology changes, data analytics, visualization, are in the syllabus now, but they weren't ten years ago. And, so, a certification that keeps its syllabus current addresses that gap by making certain that the people who come out of that certification have those current, and practical, and relevant skills that are needed in the market today.

Adam:            Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Now, you have been in this accounting space, in the certification space, teaching people certifications for a while. How have you seen that demand change over the years, and what trends you see us going towards in the future?

Brian:             I think one of the things that's happened, and continues to happen, is more and more what I would call a specialty certification. You take something like CMA, and it's accounting and finance, at a fairly broad scope. It's not specific to receivables, or payables, or bookkeeping, or a specific type of banking.

But now you have certifications that are specifically about fraud examining. You have certifications that are about a controller position or a specific element of a business. And those are wonderful certifications for people that are a little further along in their career. That have some experience and know what it is that they're going into.

But when we talk about young people just starting their career. The certification that they need is one that's going to keep as many doors as possible open for them, as long as possible. And when I talk to a university student, I say, "Well, if you know that you want to go into investment banking, then that's the certification you need to pursue."

"If you know that you want to go into some particularly niche area, then, find that specific niche certification."

But most people, until they've been five or 10 years in their career, don't know what they want to do for the next 20 years. And, so, there are niche certifications that are developing, which are for later in somebody's career after they know where they're going. But we still have the same certifications around th...

In today's episode, host Adam Larson is joined by the esteemed authors of the 2023 Curt Verschoor Ethics Feature of the Year titled "The Value of Civility" - Amanda Marcy and Doug Parker. Get ready as they delve deep into the importance of civility in the workplace and its connection to professional ethics and ethical standards.

Did you know that even seemingly inconsequential or inconsiderate words can violate workplace norms? In this fascinating conversation, Amanda and Doug shed light on various aspects of civility, including its impact on workplace morale, productivity, and employee commitment. They also explore the role of leaders in promoting a culture of civility and providing guidelines for employee conduct.

Through insightful discussions and real-world examples, you'll gain a profound understanding of how civility not only enhances workplace harmony but also influences ethical decision-making. So whether you're a leader aiming to foster a respectful environment or an employee dealing with an uncivil boss, this episode will equip you with the tools to navigate challenging situations. Tune in today!

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. Today, I'm thrilled to have Doug Parker, Assistant Professor of Accounting at Western Carolina University. And Amanda Marcy, Assistant Professor of Accounting at the University of Scranton on today's show. They are authors of the award winning article, The Value of Civility. Which examines the important relationships between ethics, professional standards, and civil behavior in the workplace.

Doug and Amanda will share insightful perspectives from their research, on how a culture of incivility can negatively impact organizations. What leaders can do to promote civility, and advice for handling uncivil bosses or co-workers. Their expertise provides a crucial framework for maintaining ethical principles, while nurturing a respectful and productive work environment. 

Doug and Amanda's thought-provoking article underscores why self-awareness, open communication, and thoughtful leadership are vital for organizations seeking to uphold integrity. I'm excited to dive into these critical issues with them. Please join me in welcoming Doug and Amanda to the show.

Adam:            Well, Amanda and Doug, I'm really excited to have you on the podcast today. You, guys, are the authors of an article called The Value of Civility, which is the Curt Verschoor, Article of the Year. And we're really excited to talk about that. And, so, maybe we can start off by explaining how civility in the workplace is related to professional ethics, and the ethical principles and standards. And we're going to be talking a lot about ethics and standards, today. But maybe we can start a little bit about maybe how civility works and maybe what is civility. Because it's not a word we hear every day in every workplace.

Doug:              Well, it's definitely not something you hear every day, but it's something you witness every day. Especially when you watch media or any news outlets, you'll see incivility at its best. But the basic concept there is it's, basically, an exchange of seemingly inconsequential or inconsiderate words, that violate the conventional norms of workplace conduct.

In other words, it's not, necessarily, direct attacks. It's more of texting on your cell phone while someone's trying to convey a point or real low intensity behavior meant to harm others, without maybe even recognizing that you're doing it. Sometimes it can be words that we say that can harm others. Derogatory comments, ignoring their opinions, belittling their opinions, I think, is a big part of incivility. And we do witness it quite a bit in everyday society.

Hopefully not in everyday workplace society, but you see it a lot in terms of society. Go to the counter and just watch people do their orders. Where something's done wrong or not as quick as they think, and you'll see those uncivil acts begin to take place in there. Any additional thoughts on that, Amanda?

Amanda:        I would say one thing to remember is that ethics contributes to how, like Doug said, we treat each other on a daily basis. So civility, at its heart, focuses on honesty, fairness, self-control, and prudence. Therefore, if we don't have civility, then we can never truly act ethically.

Doug:              It definitely requires to be mindful of a place, time, and how you speak. I think we must concentrate on what we say and how we say it. So I found this neat, little, article by Joan Dubinsky, from Clemson University, and she stated that, "Civility and ethics are cousins, they're not twins." In other words, they're not the identical same thing. In other words, you can be civil and still act unethically. So you can take an unethical course, but do it very civil.

So in the South we say, "Bless your heart" that's uncivil words. It's meant as a derogatory term, but it's done in a very civil manner. So you can act in an unethical manner and still act civilly. However, you can't be uncivil and be ethical, at the same time. So it doesn't work both ways. So if you're uncivil, then, you're definitely not acting civil or ethically toward others. Treating other with respect and care is really foundational to ethical leadership. Leading in a manner that respects the rights and dignities of others.

Adam:            Mh-hmm, yes, it sounds like everybody should be listening to this conversation. Especially if we look at just how people treat each other in the streets, in Twitter, to each other, and how they talk to each other anywhere. This is a wider conversation, than just the workplace. But if we look at the workplace, how can that lack of a civility affect a professional workplace. If we don't have those things? I think you've kind of covered that. But if we look at just a workplace, how can it affect if we don't have those things?

Amanda:        One thing to consider is it will, obviously, break down workplace harmony. Because you could have employees attacking each other, I don't want to say physically attacking each other. But attacking each other, maybe they're physically attacking each other, I don't know. Either subtly or intentionally which, again, can result in low employee morale, decreased productivity, stuff of that nature.

It could also result, in the end of the day, of employees having less organizational commitment. So they may be more apt to leave the firm just because they're not comfortable being there anymore, in that type of environment.

Doug:              Yes, and if you really read the paper and look at some of the comments, so I'll go to that, it says that, "The impact of incivility, it makes you less motivated to do a good job or get a job done as fast as possible." Well, in that are you acting in the most ethical manner? I mean, if your motivation to do a good job, that's not really ethical, especially, for your clients or for your employer in that.

The future of accounting is here, and it's automated! In the latest episode of Count Me In, we unravel the world of accounting automation, AI, and the exciting changes that technology is bringing to the industry. From enhanced efficiency and productivity to the ethics and potential challenges of integrating artificial intelligence, this episode covers it all. Our expert guest, Jesse Rubenfeld, CEO and Founder of FinOptimal, will discuss the way accounting is being transformed, the new skills professionals need to master, and the fascinating possibilities that full automation offers. Tune in, level up, and discover what the future of accounting holds!

Connect with our presenter:
www.finoptimal.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jesserubenfeld/

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome, listeners, to Count Me In. Your go-to destination for insights into the future of finance and accounting. Today, we have a special guest with us, Jesse Rubenfeld, CEO and founder of FinOptimal. He is an expert in accounting automation and AI. We delve into a conversation that may redefine how you perceive your profession. How is automation shaping the accounting landscape? What are the new skills that financial professionals must adopt? And what does the full automation mean for traditional jobs in the field? Sit back and join us in this exciting journey, as we explore the transformation of accounting in the age of automation.

****

Well, Jesse, we're really excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast, and today we're going to be talking about automation and accounting. And to start off, maybe, at a high level, we can talk a little bit about how has automation really impacted the accounting and finance industry, and what benefits has it really brought to it?

Jesse:              Well, I think it's really been a benefit to the profession, that's the headline. It's taken it from a place where there was a lot of manual block and tackle. To an elevated role where the accountant, the finance professional, can be a thought partner and spend most of their time analyzing and adding value to the message that they provide to management, to the CFO, to investors, to whoever it is. Because they're spending less time managing spreadsheets, or uploading things, or doing data entry, and more time being smart.

Adam:            Yes, they have more time to focus on other things. Maybe we can talk about what are the specific kinds of automation, that are really impacting those operations. You mentioned some things that are taking us off of spreadsheets. But are there other things that are really impacting it?

Jesse:              Well, in this situation I like to differentiate between accounting practice automation and accounting automation. Accounting practice automation involves task management workflow. Facilitating review and approval of work papers, tracking time spent on clients. It benefits the accounting firms, but it doesn't, drastically, increase capacity. And it's only beneficial for internal accounting teams, at a certain size.

Now contrast that with accounting automation, which involves calculating and recording journal entries, reconciling transactions, generating reporting. This benefits accounting firms and their clients directly. It increases capacity for firms, and it increases speed and accuracy so the clients aren't sitting around waiting for answers. 

Internal accounting teams can benefit from this early on. One person can benefit from this. One person can do the job of five, whereas it's unlikely they'd use accounting practice automation in a one-person finance team. We also like to distinguish between automation and automation assisted. Automation assisted means it's faster than fully manual, but it's still manual at lots of parts. Whereas automated means one event triggers all of the subsequent actions, automatically. And I like to illustrate this with a side-by-side example.

Okay, let's say you're using HubSpot, the CRM, and QuickBooks Online. You close a sale, you have to invoice for the deal and then you have to account for it correctly. And deals, sometimes, have different payment terms. "I'm going to pay all up front, I'm going to pay monthly." And they have different agreement lengths; annual, quarterly, month to month.

An automation-assisted process looks like this; a deal is marked closed, one. Accounting gets an email, they fill out the details in a spreadsheet that contains a revenue waterfall schedule. They make sure the formulas are correct and then they copy down through all of the columns, et cetera. And then once a month they go book an entry in QBO.

Whereas automated, fully automated, means the deal is marked closed, one, in HubSpot. Data flows from the CRM to QBO automatically. The invoice is sent, automatically, and the invoice is coded in a way that the revenue can, automatically, be recognized in the appropriate periods. That's what we're doing for our clients, full automation. Does that make sense?

Adam:            Yes, that makes a lot of sense. And, so, as you're describing those two things, the full automation is almost eliminating traditional jobs that have been in the finance function. So when you were talking about this full automation. There are new skill sets that are involved that are needed for it, and you've seen lots of articles. But maybe we can talk a little bit about that. What are some new skills that accountants are going to need, going into the future? Because full automation is on its way, in a lot of the functions.

Jesse:              Totally. Again, the headline here is it's elevating the high performers of yesterday. So that today they can do more, better what they're already doing. In terms of new skills, it comes down to more systems and data analysis. SQL, for example, in our case, Python, if you really want to go crazy. I long ago went crazy. But I think that in the past, somebody who could do the higher level work of managing, of communicating financial pictures to important stakeholders like the CFO, the CEO, investors, they would do that, but they'd spend a lot of time preparing for those things.

It would be a major event to get ready for a board meeting. And the amount of time that it took to do that right, was a barrier to entry of competitors for their job. Whereas now they don't have to spend that time preparing for it. Meaning they can use automation to do a much better job, of keeping things ready for the board meeting in real time, all the time.

But it also means that it's not as hard for someone to come along with the same skills and replace them. Because they no longer have the luxury of designing their own really convoluted, excessively complicated process, that another skilled accountant can't come in and replace. So it's a double-edged sword. But, overall, it's making everybody more productive and therefore is good for business and the accountant.

Adam:            Yes, it is good for business because it helps your bottom line, it helps get things done more efficiently. But I can imagine that changi...

Dive into the fast-paced and exciting world of artificial intelligence with our podcast series! Join our expert guests, Dr. Mfon Akpan and Dr. Scott Dell, as they unravel the mysteries of AI, explore the cutting-edge developments in language models like ChatGPT, and discuss the massive impact of these technologies on industries like accounting. From the thrilling acceleration of AI adaptation to ethical concerns and security implications, this podcast explores it all. Tune in to stay at the forefront of one of the hottest topics in technology today!

Connect with our speakers:
Dr. Mfon Akpan - https://www.linkedin.com/in/drmfonakpan/

Dr. Scott Dell -  https://www.linkedin.com/in/drscottcpa/
SF Magazine Article by our speakers

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we're diving deep into the world of AI. A subject that has been making waves across industries. Transforming the way we work, communicate, and think. With me are our esteemed guests; Dr. Mfon Akpan, Assistant Professor of Accounting at Methodist University. And Dr. Scott Dell, Assistant Professor of Accounting at Francis Marion University. They bring a wealth of knowledge and insights into AI's history, its current impact, and what's on the horizon. 

We'll discuss everything from AI's phenomenal growth; to its applications, ethics, security concerns, and much more. So buckle up and let's embark on this fascinating journey into the digital revolution.

Adam:            Mfon and Scott, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We're really excited we're going to be talking about AI and ChatGPT, and all that comes underneath that. And we're really excited to have this because this is a very hot topic, and people are talking about it. You see articles about it every day. You see updates, you see leaders writing letters saying, "Let's stop all AI for six months." Et cetera. Maybe we could just start at a high level. What is AI? What are these chat bots? What are these things doing for us?

Scott:              Amazing tool, and thank you for having us. It's a pleasure to be here and to share. I'll kick things off, Mfon, if it's all right. This artificial intelligence has been around for over 60 years. So you say, "Wait a minute, why is it so new?"

Well, what's new is the capabilities because of the computing power we now have. And the tool is amazing; it is changing life as we know it. We haven't seen the likes of this since the printing press. It's an environment that can really do things, change work, augment work, replace work, but makes things better. Your thoughts, Mfon?

Mfon:             Yes, and I think some of the excitement around it is that we haven't seen this type of growth, in a platform as well. So you think about it was released, November 30th 2022. Five days, the platform got a million users. So you think about in 2010, it took Instagram two and a half months to get to a million users. So there's a lot of excitement, and then there's a lot of acceleration and speed around the platform, as well.

Scott:              As a follow up to that, 100 million users mark was reached in two months. Compared to TikTok, I think, it was nine months to get that far, that fast. So it has been an amazing adaptation of the technology.

Adam:            So maybe we can talk a little bit about how does it work. And, then, from there, maybe, talk about what benefits it may have for the accounting profession as a whole.

Mfon:             Well, it's a language model, so it has an interface. So you're able to go to the platform, you go to the website, and you're able to ask it questions, or you can copy and paste information and ask it to do things. So from the profession side, if you're asking it to solve problems. You can ask it to solve a problem, or you can have it write an email, write a letter, it can produce content for you.

Scott:              And as Mfon mentioned, it is an LLM, one of those three-letter acronyms, a large language model. But what it does is it projects words. So it looks at the previous word and it says, "Mm, what would the next logical word be?" 

                        Which, sometimes, if you've ever played the game of telephone, as a kid, sometimes, you get to the end of that line and nothing resembles how it started out. And that sometimes happens, as well, with the ChatGPT and GPT-4 environment. Because it is projecting with probabilities, "Yep, I think this is the next word." And sometimes it's dead wrong. It's called hallucinating, it's the actual technical term.

Mfon:             It does hallucinate. But what's so fascinating when you use it, it is projecting. But I guess it feels like you get the impression that it's thinking, even though it's not thinking. So you can ask it questions and it will give you answers, so there's that interaction. But it is projecting and it does, sometimes, hallucinate, or make up answers, give you false information. 

Scott:              And the fear I really have, in the hands of professionals, we can, probably, take a look and say, "Oh, this isn't quite right. This is illogical." But for a novice, and for newbies like our students, they will look at this and say, "The English is so good. It just flows so, logically, it must be right." And it's not, although, often enough it is right. So there's a balance.

Adam:            Yes, so talking about people using it. Obviously corporations, people within corporations, within organizations, are using it. Within the accounting profession are using it, and people are having to create policies. There are new workarounds coming out there. People are saying, "Okay, you can use this, but you can use it for that."

I saw one example, where somebody put in a fake balance sheet and said, "Analyze this for me." And it gave a really interesting analysis. Then, you have to worry, "Oh, am I putting somebody's data into this thing?" And you have to worry about those things. And, so, how can this tool be used for management accounting? In the accounting space, obviously, without giving away too much personal data?

Scott:              Security consciousness is we need to be there. I mean, you're hearing about the deepfakes. I just heard about a scandal in Hong Kong, a banker that sent millions of dollars, based on what so...

In today's challenging business landscape, organizations need to adapt, innovate, and maximize efficiency more than ever. In today’s episode of Count Me In, we dives into the heart of support functions within organizations, discussing the current markets in 2023 and the inevitable squeeze that many businesses face. Our Guest Kevin Herring, president and founder of Ascent Management Consulting, discusses how you can leverage expertise within your organization as cuts and reorganizations loom on the horizon. Kevin will unpack the role of accountants, finance, IT, HR, engineering, supply chain, and more in optimizing the resources they have in the organization. Discover how you can shift your mindset, change how you operate, and bring your expertise to bear on critical situations.

Connect with Kevin:
https://ascentmgt.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/the90dayturnaround/

Full Episode Transcript:

Adam:            Welcome to another episode of Count Me In. Today's world is filled with uncertainty, and with 2023 looking like a challenging year, organizations are feeling the squeeze. Our guest, today, Kevin Herring, president and founder of Ascent Management Consulting. Brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to our discussion, on support functions within organizations. 

We'll explore how businesses can optimize their existing resources, transform their thinking, and redefine roles to survive and thrive in these turbulent times. It's time to reimagine your organization's potential. So let's dive right into this essential conversation.

Kevin, I want to thank you so much for coming on the Count Me In podcast. I'm really excited to have you on. As we talk about support functions within organizations. And as we both know that the markets, in 2023, are not looking great. The futures are not looking great. And it's going to put a squeeze on many organizations. And can we start talking about, within organizations. How you can leverage expertise, within your organization, as cuts and reorganizations are going to have to start coming?

Kevin:            Yes, that's a great question. How do we do that? And I think that you're right. Everything that we read, everything that we hear CEOs are saying that they're hunkering down. They're planning for a rough 2023, possibly 2024, and they really have to maximize, maybe, a better way to put it is to optimize the resources that they have in the organization to get through it. And our support functions play a critical role in that. 

Every organization has a lot of natural slack in the system. And, sometimes, we don't realize it until we really start to drill down and look at what's working, what's not working, that sort of thing. And what we find is that when you talk to people, when you talk to teams, and ask them, are they contributing everything that they could possibly contribute to the organization? 

Not are they working as hard as they can, but are they contributing everything? Do they have capabilities that are not being used? Do they have information, understandings of things that are not being tapped? And the answer is almost always, "Absolutely, yes. I'm doing the best I can with what I have, but I could do so much more for the organization, if they just let me."

And people and staff functions play such a critical role. Accountants, finance folks, IT, HR, engineering, supply chain, all those functions can play a huge role in maximizing or optimizing the use of our resources. The people that actually produce the product. The people that actually interface with the customers directly. And one of the ways they can do that is really to take a different look, maybe, than they have, historically, about their role in the organization. 

So here are a couple of ways to do that. One is to think, when I go to work each day, how do I see myself? And this is not just a semantic exercise. But do I see myself as an accountant who just happens to work at XYZ manufacturing company, for instance? Or do I see myself as an XYZ business person, who happens to bring accounting expertise to the organization? And it's a different way of thinking about my role, "Why I'm here?"

"What am I supposed to do in this organization?"

Am I just supposed to perform a bunch of tasks related to accounting? Or am I actually supposed to do things that, sometimes, might even stretch me a bit outside of my area of expertise. To help the business, overall, to be successful and to look for those opportunities? 

And, so, when we do that, we start recognizing that for an organization to get the full use of our expertise. We need to think of ourselves in terms of how can we bring our expertise to bear on the critical situations that the organization is dealing with. The critical issues they're dealing with, "How do I do that?". And that's a consulting role, that's not an activity role. That's not a compliance or regulatory role, that's a consulting role. 

That's where we're looking for ways that we can help those who are in the core business. To produce more efficiently, more effectively, to satisfy the customer better. To produce better products, higher quality, optimized, profitability, reducing cycle time, all those sorts of things, delighting the customer. Those are all things that anyone in a support function has the ability to help with. If they think of ways to apply their expertise in solving existing problems, and preparing the organization to handle possible future issues. 

So that's a shift in thinking, it's also a change in how we operate. Because now, if I'm a consultant, I need to learn how to be a consultant. I need to learn consulting skills. I need to learn how to identify opportunities, diagnose problems, gather data, assess it, and determine how I can solve that problem. Or determine if maybe I don't have the expertise to solve it. Who might have that expertise, and be willing to source that for those in the core business that are struggling. That's a different role, for a lot of people.

Adam:            That is a different role. And it's almost like within your internal organization, your title may be Chief Financial Officer or Chief Staff Accountant. But what you're saying is that your mindset needs to be that of a consultant, to better help the organization. So how do you start changing that mindset so that you can better help?

Kevin:            Yes, well, first you have to decide who your client is. And this is a problem for a lot of people. Most people, when you ask them, "Who's your client?" They point to their boss. That's the client or the boss's boss, the CEO or the CFO. That's who they really serve in the organization, and that's not an effective mindset to have.

Sure, those people play a critical role, but as bankers, really as bankers. People who provide the assets, the resources, the budgets, the tools and supplies, and things you need to be able to take your expertise and apply it to the core business. They want a return on those assets. So they're going to extend the resources for you to be able to use them in a productive way, for the organization. 

And, so, that begs the question — Who is the real client? Well, the places where you ca...

In this riveting episode of the Count Me In Podcast, we dive into the complex world of cybersecurity within the accounting profession. Join us as we sit down with Tom Woolley, CEO of Today CFO and Founder of  Today Cybersecurity, who has navigated the transitions from corporate industry to founding his own cloud accounting firm, and then into cybersecurity for accountants. Discover the biggest challenges faced by organizations today, from integration headaches to the buffet of software solutions. Whether you are a Fortune 100 company or a mom-and-pop shop, you'll gain insights into striking the right balance with technology to ensure information security. With regulations tightening, get ahead of the curve with expert advice and real-world solutions. Don't miss out on this episode – tune in now!

Connect with Tom:
* Website: www.todaycybersecurity.com
* Tom's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-w-2b6256173/
* Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/todaycyber
* Twitter: https://twitter.com/todaycyber_
* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/todaycybersecurity/
* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/today-cybersecurity/

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:    Welcome to another enlightening episode of Count Me In. Today we have an exceptionally exciting conversation lined up for you. Our guest today is my fellow podcaster, and an author on Amazon's bestseller list, Tom Wooley. He has expertise in corporate accounting. Spanning sectors like pharmaceuticals, oil, and gas, and now he's making waves in the realm of cybersecurity. 

From big corporations to small businesses, the tech landscape is ever-changing, and Tom's insights are here to guide us through it. We'll discuss;

1. The rapid shift to remote work. 
2. The challenges of secure information handling. 
3. The complexities of selecting the right software. 
4. And the impact of new regulations. 

Buckle up, as we explore how technology is shaping the future of accounting. Tom, welcome to the show.

Adam:            To start off, I just really wanted to, maybe, you can talk a little bit about your background and how you got here.

Tom:               Hi, Adam, thanks so much. It's a pleasure to be here. So I've been an accountant for 15 years, in the corporate industry before starting my own firm. I started off in pharmaceuticals, and then went to oil and gas in more of the financial analysis role and a lot of management accountancy. One of the things I used to do a lot of was whenever we would acquire a new company, we had to look at their financial systems. What they had in place, and then integrate them into our SAP financial system. All their historicals, and then get them trained, up and running for the future.

So I got a lot of experience, and had a lot of fun working in accounting technology in my corporate career. And then decided that, "Hey, there's a lot of technology to be brought or to be moved over and implemented in the small business accounting world as well. Smaller firms need just as much tech, if not more, sometimes, than the big guys. And with the way the technology world is moving, especially, with everything going over to the cloud.

I decided to start my own cloud accounting firm, back in 2015. And, then, when everybody started going remote, in 2020, I decided that was a good time to pivot again and go into cybersecurity, for accountants. And help other people tackle some of those issues that we saw as we transitioned to a lot of people working from home, remote, and just coping with a very wild and flexible world, over the last couple of years.

Adam:            Yes, it's been a very wild and flexible world. There's been so many things happening with everybody working from home, and all the challenges that organizations face. And cybersecurity is something that's in the news every day. You see ransomware attacks, and so many different things that's affecting so many organizations. 

Maybe we can start by talking a little bit about what are some of the biggest challenges you see organizations facing, when it comes to cybersecurity.

Tom:               Absolutely, there are a couple of things that really hit home. It's how to keep everybody working in a fluid environment. Where you can access all of your information securely. How can you find your clients' information securely? How can you receive it from them securely? We work in a time where we've got so many different communication channels. We have to actually tell our clients what is a safe and good way to get your information over to us. 

And when we started transitioning from working in the office to working from home, the biggest challenge that we faced, and that other accountants are facing is–how do you go mobile with all of that? How do you keep it in the cloud and know that it's secure? And, really, importantly, how do we instill that trust relationship with our clients. So that they know that their information is in good hands? And we started looking at so many different software out there. 

The second challenge is with a huge buffet of cloud software. Which one goes with which? How does it integrate? And it really came down to what does the process look like, for internally and externally with our clients? And that's what we hear a lot; is which software should I use? 

How do I implement it? 

There are some all-in-ones out there. Should I piecemeal, together, best in class? And there are just so many solutions. Accountants don't have time for that, especially, during tax season, which has been basically year-round for the last couple of years.

Adam:            Yes, I can only imagine. And also the biggest challenge, too, is if you're a Fortune 100 company, you have a lot more financial ability to get a larger software. A big all-in-one software. But if you're a smaller organization, or a Mom-and-pop shop, it's a lot harder to implement those bigger softwares. And, so, trying to find that challenge; how do you balance that depending on which organization you're with?

Tom:               Yes, that's a great question. There are smaller softwares like QuickBooks Online and Dropbox, that people, typically, use when they're starting off. All the way up to SAP or NetSuite when they're the Fortune 100. So it really comes down to what is the budget and how customizable does it need to be.

Something like NetSuite requires not just getting the software, but hundreds or thousands of hours of customization, and implementation, and training. And what we really want to go for is finding out how the firm is interacting interna...

Unlock the mystifying world of cryptocurrencies and blockchain in this enlightening episode of Count Me In. Join our guest host Kelly Richmond Pope, accounting Professor and author, as she speaks with Lamont Black, an Associate Professor of Finance at DePaul University.  They navigate us through the complexities of blockchain technology, its relevance to accounting and financial services, and the turbulent landscape of cryptocurrency exchanges. Lamont takes a deep dive into how blockchain serves as the foundation of cryptocurrencies, elaborates on its inherent security and transparency, and paints a picture of its significant role in the future of digital commerce. We will also unpack the rise and fall of crypto prices, the risks involved, and how to safely engage with cryptocurrency exchanges. No matter whether you're a finance professional grappling with the challenges of a rapidly digitizing economy, or a curious listener wanting to unravel the world of cryptocurrency, this episode is an invaluable resource.

Connect with Lamont and Kelly:

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/lamontblack/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-richmond-pope-cpa-83689a5/

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome to another enlightening episode of Count Me In. Where we delve into the pressing issues shaping our world and the business landscape. Today, we have the privilege of hearing a wonderful conversation between our guest host, Kelly Richmond Pope, accounting professor and author, and Lamont Black, an Associate Professor of Finance at DePaul University. They discuss an issue that is at the forefront of finance innovation; cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology.

Lamont brings his vast knowledge and expert insights to help demystify these complex topics and explain their relevance to the finance industry. So whether you're a CFO, a controller, a finance professional, or simply a curious listener, prepare for a deep dive exploration into the world of blockchain and cryptocurrencies. Let's get started.

Kelly:              So Lamont, thank you so much for joining me, today. And if you could start by just introducing who you are.

Lamont:         So I'm an associate professor of finance in the Driehaus College of Business at the DePaul University. So I'm one of your colleagues.

Kelly:              You are one of my colleagues. And, so, I want to welcome you to the IMA podcast series. And I have been working with the IMA, a little over a year. Working in research and thought leadership about ethics, corporate governance, risk, and you know my favorite love, fraud. And as we watch the news, read the news, what has just been in the news, so much, in the past, I'd say 18 months, is this really weird word called cryptocurrency. 

And when I came to you, originally, about trying to understand what in the world is cryptocurrency. What you shared with me was how important it was to understand blockchain. And what I want to do, today, is have you really break down the importance of understanding blockchain. Because what I think the world is getting a little scared about is when you keep hearing about cryptocurrency, these exchanges that are falling apart. And, I think, everybody is really skeptical of this concept of cryptocurrency.

But what I know you feel is, though, people might be scared of that. But you still need to understand the soundness and the value of the underlying technology, which is called blockchain. So could you tell us a little bit about what blockchain is and why we need to know about it as managerial accountants?

Lamont:         Yes, so blockchain is the platform behind cryptocurrency. And blockchain is a technology, that, I think, everyone should be trying to understand. It's really a system of shared record keeping. So if you think about how we now live, in the information age, most of what we do is involving data. That data is being stored and shared using different systems, today. Whether that's on the cloud or other types of servers, and the blockchain is a way of sharing information. So that it's recorded on a shared ledger. 

So you can really think of blockchain as a system of accounting. And what makes it different is that rather than these ledgers being held in a private form. Different ledgers on different institutions that, then, have to communicate, blockchain cuts across all those silos. It's a way of recording information across an entire network. Sharing that information with the network, that makes it very secure, very transparent, and very efficient for sharing information. 

So as we move deeper and deeper into the digital economy and e-commerce. I think every organization should be trying to understand how do we store and share information on the internet. I think blockchain is likely that next platform. And, so, even in the world of accounting, this is where things are likely headed.

Kelly:              So that's a great explanation, and it really makes me feel a lot more comfortable in understanding that. Although, I hear all this craziness about cryptocurrency, and cryptocurrency is just where you shouldn't put your money. You've made me feel a lot more comfortable about why I need to understand blockchain. But let me digress, for a second, what in the world is going on with all that we hear about FTX, and the collapse of these exchanges? What is that conversation even about? And how does that affect or how should it affect our opinion of blockchain?

Lamont:         Yes, so cryptocurrency is the money that is transferred across public blockchains like Bitcoin and Ethereum. And, so, people can own Bitcoin and Ethereum as digital assets, and crypto prices ran up, dramatically, during COVID. There are different arguments for why that occurred. 

But one of them would be the amount of monetary stimulus. As people had all these different sources of income coming in. Let's say through stimulus checks in the form of fiscal stimulus, that money flowing into the economy. A lot of that ended up in crypto. And, so, Bitcoin almost reached $70,000 for one Bitcoin by late 2021. And as we moved into this year and our economy started to slow, inflation started to rise, largely as an outcome of COVID, crypto prices started to collapse. 

Now, some people focus on the collapse of the crypto market as being something unique. But I just would point out that the stock market also entered bear market territory in the first half of this year, and in particular, tech stocks. So tech stocks are very risky. And, so, speculative assets during an economic slowdown, those prices tend to fall the most. 

I view crypto as a form of technology. It's the frontier of technology. So, to me, it's no surprise that as risky assets have sold off this year, crypto has gotten hit the hardest. Now, as it relates to the exchanges, that's really been the problem this year. Because most people when they buy crypto, they buy it on an exchange like Coinbase, here in the US, or FTX, which was an offshore exchange headquartered in the Bahamas. 

No...

Join us in this episode of Count Me In as we welcome our esteemed guest, Nykema Jackson, Head of Reporting, Policy and Technical Accounting at Airbnb. As we navigate the tides of remote work, hybrid models, and the aftershocks of the 'Great Resignation,' Nykema shares her insights into the art of staff development and leadership in these changing times. Discover how organizations can keep their staff engaged, foster open and trusting relationships, and leverage technology for connectivity and team building. Nykema also delves into the importance of empathy, clear vision, and timely feedback in creating a culture that inspires employees to stay and grow. Tune in to decode the leadership formula for the new world of work.
 
Connect with Nykema: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nykemajackson/

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Hello and welcome to Count Me In. The podcast that brings you the latest insights and practical advice on leadership, accounting, management, finance, and business. I'm your host Adam Larson, and today we are delighted to have Nykema Jackson with us. With a rich background in consulting and a significant leadership role in corporate America. She's here to share her views on the pressing issue of our time; staff development and leadership in the era of remote and hybrid work models. 

As we explore the new paradigms that have emerged in the wake of the Great Resignation, let's dive into the conversation to learn how we can foster engagement, trust, and growth in these transformative times. Please join me in welcoming Nykema to the show.

[00:00:43]       < Music >

Adam:            So, Nykema, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We're really excited to have you on, and today we're going to be talking about staff development and leadership. Which is a big topic today because in the last three years we've seen a lot of changes. With the change to working from home. And, then, now, as things have gone back, going back to hybrid. And we've had terms like The Great Resignation and quiet quitting being thrown at everybody. 

And, so, as we're talking about that, can we maybe discuss, from your perspective, how do you see an organization can keep their staff engaged and continue to develop them in the midst of all this?

Nykema:        Sure, and thanks so much for having me. One thing that I've seen in my career, and I've come from a consulting background and, currently, I'm in corporate America working for a company. I've seen that individuals need leadership that knows and is very intimately versed in the mission of the company. That is invested in their employees. And investments from a learning and development perspective, as well as investing in them as a person. 

And, so, COVID has brought around this environment where we've merged lives. We had our work cells before we had our personal cells, and now those things have come together. I find that it's critically important to recognize and acknowledge that in people, and to support them down both avenues. And when someone feels invested in and developed, and they know the mission that they're marching towards. I feel that turnover is less and you can get around the big resignation.

Adam:            So I completely agree. As you continue to engage people, they will stay where they are. But, then, there's also the quiet ones who aren't really as engaged with what's happening. You can develop, and you can pour yourself into the people who are engaged and want to be there. But how do you grab those folks who are not quite there and want to be there?

Nykema:        So one of the things I do, personally, are one-on-one check-ins with my directs, and sometimes I do skip levels. You'd be amazed that for those quieter ones, how much they open up in a one-on-one environment. I think people need to know from leadership, and I feel like sometimes we get lost in our own trajectory and progression. We don't realize that as we rise in the ranks, there is a level of intimidation for people. So you need to make it an open-door policy, and you need to make people feel comfortable to come to you. And one way to do that is to develop relationships. 

But it takes a concerted effort on the leader to make time for that. Because it's not that time is on our side in a lot of situations, and COVID has created an additional barrier around that. Where people can't just pop in your office, they can't just see you in the hallway. They can't just strike up a conversation around the coffee machine. 

They have to be deliberate and intentional on making those relationships and fostering that along the way. And the only way to do that is to schedule the time. So that it can start to become organic. Where they feel more comfortable with their relationship, with leadership, and they'll come to you naturally.

Adam:            Yes, it's almost like you need to create some open-door Zoom call or open-door office hours on Teams, where people can just pop in at any time. Where they're able to do that, and the technology is out there. And how has technology helped you in the midst of the COVID era and able to reach out to people?

Nykema:        So, for me, COVID has opened up a whole universe of additional time, for me, it's saved me a commute. So I've been able to use technology, in a way, to connect with people, and I make it less transactional. So some folks get a little intimidated by being on screen. 

And, so, one thing that I've done is I don't multitask while I'm on calls. I silence my email so that I can really focus on individuals. And with the use of technology, we're able to do teaming events virtually. Sometimes we'll do happy hours, where we'll send a bottle of wine to individuals. I haven't done that on my current team, so don't tell them. 

But in the past, I've sent bottles of wine, or if there's something that they like around coffee, or something, gourmet, I would send that, and then we would have a virtual outing. And it gives people the flexibility to still be there for their families, and their children, and whatever extracurricular activities that they have. But we can, literally, pick any time of the day to do this now. Versus sequestering it to the end of the day.

Adam:            Yes, our team did a virtual wine and painting. Where they sent the wine and the painting thing, and then the person did it through Zoom and show us. And we'd all sit there painting, and drinking our wine, and it was actually quite fun. More fun than I realized it would be, doing it virtually. I never thought it could be like that.

Nykema:        Absolutely.

Adam:            Do you have any other examples of how you've been able to develop your team, in the midst of the COVID era. Even before the COVID era, where it was difficult for the team members to connect.

Nykema:        So one th...

In this illuminating episode of the Count Me In, we sit down with our esteemed guest, Janis Parthun, VP, Advisory & Project Services at RGP. She is a leading voice in the world of Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG). Dive into the intricacies of ESG, understand its importance in a business context, and explore its different facets - from the environmental to the social and governance perspectives. We also delve into the challenges companies face in implementing ESG strategies, discussing the evolving regulatory landscape and offering insight into the best practices adopted by forward-thinking businesses. Whether you're an industry veteran looking to refine your ESG approach or a newcomer eager to implement an ESG program, this episode is brimming with valuable insights.

Connect with Janis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janisparthun/

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome to another exciting episode of Count Me In. Today we have a special guest with us, Janis Parthun. VP, Advisory and Project Services, at RGP. She is an expert in the field of Environmental, Social, Governance or ESG, as many of us know it. 

Janis brings a wealth of knowledge providing a fresh perspective on the complexities and significance of ESG. She will walk us through the intricacies of ESG, discuss its growing prominence, and share valuable insights on its implementation. So if you're looking to understand ESG better, and how we can add value to your business model, this is one episode you won't want to miss. Let's dive right in.

Janis, we're really excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast. As we go into today, we're going to be talking about ESG or Environmental, Social, and Governance, and we hear a lot about that. IMA talks a lot about that. We've been publishing articles. There's a lot of things happening in the industry. But maybe we can start off just at a higher level and talk about what does it mean, what does it represent, in an organization?

Janis:              Yes, Adam, happy to do that. The term ESG or Environmental, Social, and Governance can really differ just depending on who you speak to. But I'd like to establish some initial background here. Where environmental focuses on the company's impact on the environment. On the risks, and opportunities associated with the impact of climate change on the company, its business, and its industry. 

Social may focus on the company's relationship with people and society, or whether the company's investing in its community. And governance focuses on issues such as how the company is run, and possibly connect to executive compensation. 

So ESG has been an important element to organizations approach to create value, as part of the business model, and just to the greater society impact. But what does this entail? Is what I often hear. And to elaborate a little bit more, a company's overarching ESG program will likely have top priorities determined around ESG matters. With goals, which includes metrics and possibly targets for future outlook has been set and established.

To reach the goals and the targets, the company may have various initiatives and action, in order to support the goals. For example, a company may have climate change as one of its ESG priorities or material topics, and a goal to reduce emissions with the target of 40% by 2040. The organization, then, may have an initiative or a project to convert all transportation fleets to electric vehicles, as a strategy to reduce the emissions. 

But when we're discussing ESG, at the overarching program or program level, this is applicable across multiple material topics or priority topics. Now, the topic of ESG is not new, and there are significant funds and investments around this. 

Currently, over 96% of the S&P 500 already, voluntarily, publish sustainability reports in some form or fashion. But an increasing interest from parties to invest, and companies wanting to communicate or report on ESG. Regulatory and standard-setting bodies are also paying attention to how companies are reporting on ESG matters.

Adam:            Definitely, and you see a lot of the bigger organizations implementing it. But smaller organizations may not quite be ready or there, yet. And if you are one of those organizations that are saying, "You know what, I want to jump into this, get into this." What are some steps that a typical company might undergo to establish an ESG-type program? Is there a specific, strategic, approach that you need to take when you're implementing that?

Janis:              Yes, that's a great point, Adam, and there is a recommended strategic approach to this. So the other aspect to think about is the ESG strategic roadmap or steps that companies, typically, may undergo to establish an ESG program. First, is really having to determine materiality. This is driven by stakeholder and market input, industry profile, business strategy, and suggested standards and frameworks. And, then, setting goals and targets and execute on the reporting. 

So establishing process and oversight to have that accountability, and report or update related to performance metrics. And, then, establishing quality control. Establish process and governance to ensure the quality control of the data that's collected or reported, and of course, reevaluate in that cycle. 

But, more often than not, companies are encountering challenges, during the midpoint stages of executing on the ESG program strategy. And this includes adhering to regulations, standards and frameworks, and just trying to stay current and up to date. There are several in the horizon, and it's a lot going on for companies to navigate through.

Program management and governance, having organizational governance over the ESG program, and monitoring and tracking against existing goals, appropriately, and evaluating progress. For example, do you have a governance process around adding or revising priorities or metrics? And monitoring the actions or involved in ESG committee that helps govern the goals set and tracked. And data quality management; is the information reliable? 

For example, is the information collected comprehensive to the metrics being tracked? Such as inclusive the various regions and markets. Is that information reliable? Such as is it trackable or include supporting details. And with each of these challenges, it's important to pull the right resources in to help and address.

Adam:            Before we get too much into the details of program management and those challenges. You've mentioned, a few times, about different regulating bodies have been watching in certain areas. There are regulations and new standards coming up, and that can be challenging for anybody and everybody. A lot of people are overworked. People are getting stressed out, and the idea of having more regulations to follow can be very stress inducing. But, maybe, you can talk a little bit more about how it's affecting companies and what people can expect?

Janis:              Yes, I can, definitely, elaborate that a little bit more, Adam, and dive a little bi...

Welcome to a brand-new episode of 'Count Me In' where we break down complex financial concepts into simple, understandable terms. In this episode, we unravel the mysteries of cryptocurrency and explore its volatile nature. We're joined by Jason Cozens, the CEO and Founder of Glint, who shares his insights into the current state of the market and explains why cryptocurrencies have become such a significant player in the global economy. Plus, we dive into the golden alternative, exploring how gold has held its purchasing power over thousands of years and how innovative technologies, like Glint, have made gold a feasible medium of exchange. Whether you're a crypto enthusiast or a gold advocate, this episode is packed with valuable insights that will help you navigate the world of alternative currencies.

Connect with Jason: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncozens/

Full Episode Transcript:

Adam:            Hello and welcome to another episode of Count Me In. Today we're diving headfirst into the complex and ever-evolving world of cryptocurrencies. We're excited to have Jason Cozens with us. The CEO and founder of Glint, a global fintech platform. 

He's an expert in cryptocurrencies and alternative currencies, and he'll be sharing his extensive knowledge about the current state of the market. Why cryptocurrencies exist, in the first place, and their inherent risks. He'll also shed light on the appeal of gold, as a stable, risk-off asset, and how it's been modernized for everyday transaction with technologies like Glint. So if you're curious about the state of cryptocurrencies, or the power of gold, as an alternative, this episode is a treasure trove of information. Let's dive in.

Jason, I just want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Really excited to have your expertise around cryptocurrencies and alternative currencies, in the market. And maybe we can start off by discussing cryptocurrencies and the state of that market, as it stands right now. 

Jason:             Yes, sure, well, I mean, before we start looking at exactly the state of the market, now. I think it's also important to understand why the market even exists and, then, just to touch on that for a second. Why do we even have crypto currencies? 

My movement into alternative currencies started in 2008 like a lot of people's journeys did for this. Where they realize that banks are not risk-free deposits of funds. When you put your money in the bank, it ceases to be yours. That money is put at risk, and it is lent out, it's a liability of the bank. And that's a problem for people and a problem for businesses that have money, and want to be able to put it into those banks. And, of course, we get all kinds of insurances from the FDIC et cetera. 

But, at some point, they're going to change the rules, and they've already passed legislation called bail-in rather than bailout. Which means that when, next time, there's a banking crisis, instead of the government's bailing out the banks. They might say to, actually, "We're going to do bail-in this time." 

Which means that if you've got a significant amount of money in the bank, they swap that for shares in the bank. Which you may or may not get back in a few years' time, and that's what they did in Cyprus, they tried it. They've passed the legislation. So it's something we've all got to be cognizant of. And, then, of course, inflation, and very few commentators are talking about one of the biggest drivers for inflation, of course, is money printing. And inflation is now rip-roaring through the economy, it's affecting individuals. It's affecting businesses.

I thought it was bad back in 2008, when governments are trying to keep it at around 2%. Over my lifetime, the dollar has lost more than 85% of its purchasing power, let's just think about that. 85% of its purchasing power, and that was before actually the surge in inflation, I calculated that. 

And, so, there's a need or people have been looking for something to hedge against systemic risks. They've been looking for something to hedge against inflation. 

And, also, generally speaking, the financial system is getting better at payments and cross-border payments. But, again, they're looking for efficiencies with that, too. So that's why we're in this space. 

Innovations around Bitcoin, model a lot on gold and other types of cryptocurrencies now, like Ethereum and even stablecoins, of what created what was a $3 trillion market. And, obviously, what we've seen this year is that $3 trillion market completely collapsed to below a trillion dollars. Which is a huge drop for anybody involved in the cryptocurrency industry.

But, yes, one trillion is still better than the kick in the teeth, and it's a significant industry, still, and I don't see it going away. And there's been a huge amount of money invested in that. But we all know it's been volatile. We've seen that volatility on a weekly, sometimes, daily basis. We've seen huge swings in the value of Bitcoin. For instance, it's gone down from $65,000 down to, I think, we're currently at about $17,000, something like that. And, again, that volatility is huge. 

But previous to that, of course, we saw huge gains. I mean, it went from three or $4,000, over a few years up to $65,000. So you can see the attraction and why people got involved in that. Hey, it's this fantastic growth story, and we can handle the volatility in the belief that that growth story is going to continue forever. 

But, I think, what happened when Russia invaded Ukraine was really telling. It was the time when we saw that, actually, cryptocurrencies are definitely what I consider a risk on asset. They're a speculative asset that may or may not work, may or may not stand the test of time. There's lots of optimism around it and, certainly, lots of ideas around how it can benefit society. But it's very much still a risky asset, as opposed to say something about other alternatives like gold, which are just considered slightly more boring, but risk-off assets and stuff. 

So when the Ukraine was invaded by Russia, then we saw the crypto price plummet, and we saw the gold price go up, for instance. But there's lots of advantages around this. Apart from even the hedging against inflation and the hedging against the systemic risk, and the payments technology, just generally speaking. 

The tech, the ability to program these currencies, is what's exciting a lot of people, isn't it? So I definitely think that crypto is here to stay. But we've all got to understand what it is and understand its nature. 

Adam:            Yes, we do have to understand what it is. Because you don't know it, it doesn't seem as solid as something like holding money in your hands. But then we all know that money doesn't have any backing anymore. And, as you've already mentioned, the inflation and the things with banks can be can be risky, as well. So as organizations are looking at to getting into alternative currencies, are there benefits that they can look at? You've already mentioned a lot of risks, but there have got to be benefits to getting into this. 

Jason:             Yes, ther...

Get ready for part two of our insightful ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) discussion on the Count Me In podcast. Our expert panel, Douglas, Dan, and Catie, unpack the pressures and fraud risks inherent in ESG reporting, offering invaluable insights gleaned from real-world scenarios. But it's not just about identifying risks; they also provide practical guidance for those embarking on their ESG journey. Learn how to start with what you have, concentrate on materiality, and establish a robust, cross-functional ESG team. Tune in for an essential roadmap to navigate the complexities of ESG reporting in today's business landscape. This is one episode you won't want to miss!

Connect with our speakers:
Catie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ctserex/
Dan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-mosher-8552519/
Doug: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-hileman-fsa-crma-cpea-p-e-6abbb71/

Download the reports mentioned into today's podcast:
Achieving Effective Internal Control Over Sustainability Reporting
Managing Fraud Risks in an Evolving ESG Environment

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. Today we have part two of Unraveling ESG. We're joined, again, by Catie Selex, Douglas Hileman, and Dan Mosher for the completion of their conversation. Now, if you didn't hear part one, I encourage you to pause right now and listen to that first. In today's episode, we explore the challenges and risks of ESG reporting, including the potential for fraud.

Our experts delve into the pressures companies face and discuss real-world examples of how well-intentioned sustainability efforts can sometimes lead to misreporting and potential fraud. But it's not all about the pitfalls, they also offer essential guidance to those new to ESG. Emphasizing the importance of starting with existing resources, focusing on materiality, and setting up the dedicated cross-functional ESG team.

Don't miss this invaluable conversation, so let's get started.

[00:00:55]       < Music >

Dan:                Doug, I mentioned the ACFE's Fraud Triangle earlier, and I'm eager to hear some of your perspectives on applying that Fraud Triangle to ESG. 

Doug:              Thank you, Dan, it can be done too. It's a familiar construct, and I was fortunate to be an in-house at a Big Four when Sarbanes-Oxley hit. And at the very beginning of designing internal controls and testing internal controls, we had to consider the possibility of fraud.

We had to design controls to prevent fraud, in audits we had to detect fraud. 

Being an environmental specialist, and then with the IIA coming out with changing their IPPF, their framework, to require testing for fraud. I've been testing for fraud and considering fraud for 20 years, in the environmental space since 2002.

It looks a little different for ESG, but not as different as you might think. There is pressure, pressure can be, "We've got to get this report out."

"The customer wants this answer."

"We have to say, for example, that our products didn't come from Bangladesh, so what the heck? How will they find out?" There's so much pressure. I see that people are involved in ESG, in this non-financial reporting, as an add-on to their jobs. It might be 20% of their job, and it's the 20% between 120 and 140% of what they're supposed to do. People are under, and companies, are under tremendous pressure to put the right answer out there. 

They have the opportunity to do so because the controls are not designed, and have not been implemented with the potential for fraud in mind. So where there are weak controls or no controls, the opportunities are there. I see this comes into play, also, when data and information comes from outside the organization. 

There's this tricky thing where so much of what we do, in ESG, is not only what the organization controls but what the organization can influence. There are some challenges there, how do you control what you don't control? 

So the opportunity is there because the controls can be weak or nonexistent. And the rationalization can be, "Well, everybody does it." 

Or "It's not about money, it's about prestige."

"It's not really this, we want the award." We've seen, for example, there's a magazine, an organization, that rates colleges, the 10 best colleges in each thing. And we've started to see, in recent years, where the colleges are even fudging the information to get the prestige of being in that award. That may have secondary effects for how many people go to that college or what they're willing to pay for tuition, but that's fraud. 

In my book, if you submit data and information that is incorrect, or inaccurate, or misleading, with the intent to deceive at the expense of others. Especially if that turns into actual or potential financial gain, I call that fraud. So that applies on all three sides of the triangle. It's just a matter of thinking about this ESG and non-financial world and how that can happen.

Dan:                Excellent, Doug. Yes, maybe, just to add a couple of extra points around those pressures and incentives. Today we are seeing that there is incentive compensation for certain executives that is linked to various ESG measures. If you think about that and the opportunity for management override of certain controls that are out there, that's a great incentive. 

If you're going to get paid a bigger bonus because of greater ESG metrics, and your ESG, for example, your emissions information is held in Excel spreadsheet, which in many cases that is the case. I saw a survey, not so long ago, of more than a thousand executives saying that, I think, it was 86% of them had their emissions data just sitting in a spreadsheet.

And if you could change that with a few keystrokes, at the executive level, to boost your bonus, someone might do that. Other things I think of are from an incentive or pressure standpoint. Things around ESG-linked bonds or credits where there are a key performance indicators and you're required to maintain those metrics, to maintain certain interest rates or payment on your bond. Those things are out there and they're going to influence some portion of those that are held to them. Catie, maybe, you have some other thoughts around this as well?

Catie:              Yes, Dan, so one of the things that we're seeing in ESG, especially because people are so compelled to make great strides on their data and to make progress towards their targets, in a very quick manner, is there's an emerging market of solutions that some are absolutely l...

As highlighted in the recent COSO publication on Internal Controls over Sustainability Reporting, good governance and systems for sustainable business activities and ESG reporting require attention to potential risks around fraud and greenwashing.  Reflecting Grant Thornton’s recent report on control activities related to these risks, join us as we take a dive deep into the world of Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) in business with our latest episode of the 'Count Me In' podcast. Hosted by a panel of experts, which includes Catie Serex, Douglas Hileman and Dan Mosher, our podcast uncovers the truth behind ESG, its importance in today's business world, the challenges it presents, and importantly, its potential role in fraudulent activities. Tune in for a fascinating conversation on ESG reporting, corporate purpose, sustainability, and the latest trends affecting investors, employees, and stakeholders alike. Don't miss this chance to stay informed and ahead of the curve in the ever-evolving world of business.

Connect with our speakers:
Catie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ctserex/
Dan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-mosher-8552519/
Doug: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-hileman-fsa-crma-cpea-p-e-6abbb71/

Download the reports mentioned into today's podcast:
Achieving Effective Internal Control Over Sustainability Reporting
Managing Fraud Risks in an Evolving ESG Environment

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Hello, and welcome back to another enlightening episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we're diving deep into the complexities of Environmental, Social, and Governance, ESG, with a distinguished panel of experts. We're joined by Douglas Hileman, an experienced sustainability consultant, with over three decades of experience in environmental management systems, and internal controls. 

Alongside him, we have Dan Mosher, a seasoned professional who excels in helping businesses navigate the complexities of sustainability and environmental risks. Last but not least, we welcome Catie Serex. A leader in environmental, health, and safety, auditing and management who assists businesses in integrating sustainable and socially responsible practices. 

Today's discussion will delve into the importance of ESG, the challenges businesses face in managing ESG data, and the potential risk of fraud in ESG reporting. Here we go, let's listen in together.

[00:01:00]       < Music >

Doug:              And one of the things that we might kick off is with a very basic question of what is ESG? Dan, when people ask you this, how do you answer?

Dan:                Well, it really is a big umbrella, and I'll ask for some help from Catie in this regard. But ESG stands for Environmental, Social, and Governance. And, so, lots of things under that environmental area. Everything from waste management and air quality, climate change. From a social perspective, it could be your human capital management, health and safety matters. Governance, I think of anticorruption, data risks, and the like. So it really is a broad title when we say ESG. Catie, do you have some things you'd like to add to that comment?

Catie:              Yes, Dan, you definitely covered the gamut as far as some of the phrasings and the terminology, and really the topics that fall under that ESG umbrella. What I would want to add is that ESG is certainly one of the buzziest words in business today. But you might not know that ESG is, very simply, the newest iteration of concepts you've likely known for a long time. It's been previously known as corporate purpose, sustainability, even philanthropy. 

But what differentiates ESG from these previous versions is that it now represents the closest alignment, to date, of business operations, so think about your tangible assets. To those intangible elements of business that drive value. And, in this case, I'm referring to things like customer loyalty, labor environments, community engagement support. And because of this connection, ESG is moving from a nice-to-have to a need-to-have for companies, but also their investors, their customers, and other key stakeholders like their employees.

Doug:              I also think of ESG as a convenient taxonomy for all things non-financial. Many people have published those pillars or the word clouds that's in the ACFE report, and what topic goes where. For financial reporting, we know where sales goes and we know where EBITDA goes. We know where those are in a format and how to put the data and information together for clarity 

and reporting. For all things non-financial, it's just such a sprawling array of topics that ESG serves for one reason, in one way, as just simply a taxonomy. And there are some issues, such as climate change, like Dan mentioned, that really transcend more than one category, if you will. But for purposes of just where do you find it, and how do you manage it, and it can just serve as a taxonomy. Catie, to your point, on how to organize some processes, some controls, some recordings to understand what the organization is doing.

Dan:                And I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the various channels in which this information is being put out there in the public. Catie, maybe you have some thoughts around the wide scope of that.

Catie:              Yes, so in terms of the reporting side of things and getting to the nuts and bolts of what, I'm sure our listeners are interested in, in terms of, what am I on the hook for? There are a lot of reporting frameworks out there that are guiding folks. And I know that that's been a point of confusion for people is understanding, there are all these different acronyms out there. That I can report to like SASB, or the Global Reporting Initiative, GRI, Task Force for Climate-Related Financial Disclosures or TCFD. There are a lot of frameworks out there, but the field is narrowing. 

So some of the communication that we've been seeing from these wider umbrella frameworks, are that they are working together to consolidate. To make things a little bit more straightforward, and to make things a little bit more uniform across the reporting landscape. But that's currently in progress, and this is just a result of this being not in nascent stages, but still in its growth period, and really honing down what are the things that shareholders, regulators, and such need to see when it comes to these ESG disclosures.

Dan:...

Discover the secrets to unlocking employee engagement in this eye-opening episode of the Count Me In Podcast. Join us as we welcome Sarah Rubenstein, Chief Accounting Officer at Clearway Energy, as she shares valuable insights into employee engagement, strategies to transform disengaged employees, and the importance of creating inclusive communities within the workplace. Don't miss this chance to learn how to maximize productivity and employee satisfaction in your organization!

Connect with Sarah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-rubenstein-a724632/

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In today's episode, we're thrilled to have Sarah Rubenstein, Chief Accounting Officer at Clearway Energy. With us to discuss the crucial role that employee engagement plays in an organization's success. 

Sarah brings her extensive experience in cultivating positive work environments to the table. Offering valuable advice on identifying disengaged employees, implementing effective strategies to boost engagement, and the benefits of fostering an inclusive, collaborative workspace. Stay tuned as we uncover the keys to unlocking a happy, productive, and thriving work environment.

Adam:            Well, Sarah, thank you so much for coming on the Count Me In podcast, today. We're really excited to have you on, and today we're going to be talking about employee engagement and all that that encompasses. And maybe to start off, maybe, you can start by defining what is employee engagement to you.

Sarah:            Sure, to me, employee engagement is how positive people feel about their work, and we measure that in a lot of different ways. But, really, I'm lucky, the company that I work at, we survey our employees every year, regarding employee engagement. And we ask some really good questions that were developed by very smart people at Harvard, and Yale, and Stanford, that tell us how engaged people are. 

And, so, we're able to evaluate, and a lot of the questions relate to things like management, leadership, integrity, work-life balance, workload, allocation, autonomy, and things like that. And all of those factors really tell us how engaged our employees are.

Adam:            That's interesting, and when you mention engaged, a lot of times when you see discussions about employee engagement. You see engaged employees versus disengaged employees. And, so, maybe we can start by talking about that a little bit. Because you have your engaged employees, and you can usually tell who those are. But the disengaged maybe a little harder to see, or maybe not so hard, depending on what they're not doing, I should say.

Sarah:            Yes, sure, and the first indication we have, that some employees are not engaged, is that they don't answer the surveys. So we don't get 100% participation. So that tells us that some people feel like maybe their voice won't be heard, even if they answer. And those people, usually, just have a negative outlook, maybe, on what type of work they're doing or their future within the company. 

And, so, a lot of times, you lose the engagement when people feel like there's no career development path for them, or the work that they're doing isn't valuable, or they're not being told that the work that they're doing is valuable.

Adam:            And that can be very difficult for an employee, especially, when you don't feel like you can't move up in an organization. How do you take somebody who is disengaged and try to get them to be engaged?

Sarah:            That's a great question, and, especially, when you don't have a development path for a person, it is really challenging. And, so, what we try to do is we try to provide a lot of personal and professional development opportunities. And we talk to our employees about how those types of opportunities can help them develop themselves. Whether for this particular company and role or just in general for their career. So we try to offer them opportunities to learn and also to, maybe, work in an area that isn't related to their job. 

So we try to look for things we call stretch assignments. Where there might be an opportunity in another group, where someone needs help with a special project, and that might give that individual the opportunity to learn new skills that they can put on their resume, even if it doesn't give them direct path to promotion. So we try to demonstrate what we can offer the employee, even if it isn't upward mobility, and that maybe we can't keep them forever, but we can keep them a little bit longer, and that helps us overall.

Adam:            Yes, because it shows that you care and that you're engaging with them, even though they seem to be disengaged. And, so, it encourages them, even if there is no upper mobility at that moment.

Sarah:            Right, because everyone is looking for some type of personal development, even if they don't see a future for themselves at that company. So we try to offer something for everyone. If you don't see yourself as a leader at this company, that's okay, we'll work with you on how you can make yourself a better employee and a better person. So that, at least, we can keep you around, and have you feel happy to be working at the company for the time being.

Adam:            Mh-hmm, that makes a lot of sense. So maybe we can focus a little bit on what are some benefits, to organizations, to creating an engaging environment?

Sarah:            I haven't read all of the studies, but there are numerous studies that show that engaged employees are better employees, they're more productive. Of course, we know that hiring new employees, and training them, and getting them up to speed is very expensive and time-consuming. And, so, it benefits us to take the time to develop programs to promote employee engagement. Because, overall, we end up with better productivity and just a better workforce.

Adam:            I mean, that makes a lot of sense to want to have a better workforce, especially, when they're engaged. And, so, maybe, we can talk a little bit about what do you need to look for, especially, when your team is not engaged. Are there certain signs that you can look for? Obviously, you mentioned you can tell people are not engaged when they're not taking a survey. But then what are other signs that you can look for, within your team, if you can talk a little bit about that?

Sarah:            Yes, no problem, I think, there are  a couple of different signs that I look for. Generally, I look for people who aren't participating in the conversations, who don't speak up in meetings. People who have been doing the same work for an extended period of time. 

And, of course, you look for the signs of people who are not responsive. They're taking a ...

Join us on the next Count Me In as we delve into the world of accounting and finance with Megan Weiss, YP and General manager, FAO services and host of the CFO weekly podcast at Personiv. Learn about the talent shortage in the accounting industry, the benefits and challenges of outsourcing, and how recent events have impacted the profession. Don't miss this insightful conversation about the future of accounting and how companies can adapt to thrive.

Connect with Megan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megan-weis/
Check out the report mentioned in today's episode: https://insights.personiv.com/reports/cfo-talent-survey-report

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. Where we explore the world of accounting and finance with industry experts. Today we're thrilled to have Megan Weiss join us. With a rich background in accounting and consulting, Megan currently leads the Finance and Accounting Division at Personiv. She's here to share her insights into the talent shortage, in the accounting industry. The pros and cons of outsourcing, and how recent events like the Great Resignation and quiet quitting have shaped the profession. Let's dive in and learn from Megan's wealth of expertise and knowledge.

So, Megan, I want to thank you so much for coming on the Count Me In podcast, today. And I wanted to start off, a little bit, by if you could just give us an overview of your background and how you got to where you are today.

Megan:           Yes, sure, and thanks for having me. So I graduated with an undergraduate degree in accounting from Kent State University. I managed to pass the CPA in my final semester of school there. So right after school, I went to work for Deloitte & Touche, one of the Big Four accounting firms, and I was with their audit practice. I stayed and served my time for about three and a half years. 

When I left there, I went to work for Pricewaterhouse Coopers in their transaction advisory services group. Where we were looking at helping organizations who were getting ready to purchase a business or sell a business, just to determine if it was a good fit. If they were paying a good price for the business. 

From there I went to work for British Petroleum as a financial analyst. I left there after a couple of years to work for Accenture and that was back in 2003, and that was when I was introduced to the idea of outsourcing, it was pretty new back then. Not a lot of companies were doing it and the ones that did do it were very large enterprises. 

So I stayed there for 13 years, and while I was with them I went back to school. I got my MBA from Duke University. I left Accenture to then work at a small boutique consulting firm here in Dallas, Texas. It's called Everest Group, and it is a consulting group that focuses on outsourcing service providers and companies with shared service providers. 

And, so, my role there was to focus on finance and accounting and I was really looking at the service providers, and their visions for the future, and where the finance and accounting outsourcing industry was headed. And, then, while I was there, I did a project for the company I am at now, it's called Personiv. And the project I did for them was to take a look at lines of service that they should consider getting into. 

So, although, they'd been around since the mid-'80s, finance and accounting was never really on their radar as something that they should maybe venture into. So during the course of that project, finance and accounting was one of the things that we suggested that they branch into. And, so, when they decided to go down that road they reached out to me, brought me on to start it up. 

So I've been here now for five years, it's been a really exciting journey. It's like being in a startup organization, but with the backing of a company that's been around for 35 years. So that's how I got to where I am today. I feel like it's a good culmination of everything I've done to date.

Adam:            Yes, that sounds great. You've had quite the story going of a bunch of different places, but it shapes who you are and how you see everything in the accounting world. And one thing that you and I had talked about is that there is a talent shortage, in the accounting and finance world, when it comes to having to outsource, it's because you have a talent shortage, and it's been around for over 15 years. Reading articles of people saying, "Oh, it just showed up during the pandemic." But as we talked about your experience, previously, you're saying, "Well, no, it's been around for a long time."

Megan:           Yes, I mean, I would say it's been around for, at least, the last two decades. When you've read top challenges for CFOs, over the last two decades, talent has always been one or two, on that list. And, I think, it really started way back in the early 2000s, when they decided that they would make accounting a five-year program. In order to sit for the CPA, you needed a master's degree, and that's, maybe, when people stopped going into the study of accounting.

And, really, it's been around and becoming more and more of a problem, every year since. And back in 2015, the AICPA, which stands for, actually, American Institute of Certified Public Accountants, and they were predicting that by 2020, 75% of their members would be retired. And I know not every accountant is a CPA, but that's a good indicator of where the profession is headed. 

And, then, you add, on top of that, millennials and Gen Z's, who are looking for more meaningful work. And accounting, historically, has not necessarily been seen as an area that is conducive to meaningful work. So, yes, it's, definitely, been exasperated in the last three years since COVID hit, but it's been a problem for a long time coming.

Adam:            So if you're in an organization and you recognize that, "Hey, I need more talent in my accounting team." What are some benefits that they can see when they think about outsourcing their accounting and finance team?

Megan:           Yes, well, in the years past, outsourcing was really about just cutting cost, and it was all about the cost, savings. But, today, it's really about opening up a new pool of talent. A pool of talent that's equally qualified as the talent you would find, if you could, here in the United States. 

So, yes, it really is just a wonderful way to find very talented accountants. And on top of that, if a client chooses, I mean, you can have 24-hours coverage. You can have people that work here in the United States. You can have a team that works over their days, which is on the other side of the world.

So you're basically getting 24-hours coverage. But a lot of times, consultants or outsourcing providers, have people that are willing to work nights. 

Because that's not uncommon, in India or the Philippines, where a lot of this outsourcing is done, for people to work overnight in support of U.S. companies. 

And as I mentioned, ...

Dive into the world of fintech with our latest episode of the Count Me In podcast, where we discuss the transformative power of financial technology for businesses of all sizes. Join us as we chat with Joe Keeley, the CEO of Justify, a company dedicated to accelerating the fintech potential of software platforms. Discover how companies can leverage fintech tools to reduce costs, enhance revenue, and offer new services to their customers. From the giants like Amazon and Starbucks to small businesses, the opportunities are endless. Don't miss this insightful conversation that will change the way you think about the financial landscape.

Connect with Joe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joekeeley/

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. Today we have a special guest, Joe Keeley, CEO of JustiFi. Joining us to discuss the world of fintech and its impact on business. We'll explore what fintech really means?

How companies can harness its potential, and why it's important for businesses to understand the various tools available in the fintech toolbox. Joe will also share are some fascinating success stories and insights on how companies can thrive in this financial, technology-driven world. So let's get started and delve into this exciting world of fintech.

So, Joe, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast, today. We're really excited to have you on and we're going to be covering the topic of fintech, and that is a big buzzword in the industry right now. And I was hoping that we can maybe start with defining where you fit in the fintech world, and we'll continue on from there.

Joe:                 That's great, thanks for having me, Adam. And it is, I think, fintech is one of the biggest buzzwords that's out there. It's been said by leading venture capital firms that every company should be or will be a fintech company. So it's like, "Okay, well, that's a lot of pressure."

So first of all, I think, we need to step back and say, "What is that mean?" I mean, it's just an abbreviation, just flat-footed, first, it's financial technology, which can mean so many different things. But, for us, the company that I lead is called JustiFi and we exist to do just that. To accelerate the potential or the fintech potential of other software platforms. 

So in that context, it turns out that a lot of companies that are out there, one of their major, or their biggest, or only economic engine is not actually selling the product, or the service, or the access, then, that is there in plain sight. 

So, for example, software platforms, there are many software platforms that sell a SaaS fee, and they charge you to use it. But that is simply the Trojan horse to get funds flow. So they're making money on payments. They're making money by offering additional fintech products like embedded insurance, embedded lending, card issuing. 

So when you think about interchange that, deliberately, opaque monster that no one really seems to understand. You can make money and participate on interchange, by lowering your costs and keeping your price. And you can make money on interchange by participating at being high, too, by issuing cards. So there's just a lot in there. But, ultimately, what we do as a company is help platforms with their economic engine being fintech, and we provide infrastructure and a team to help them do that. 

But it's interesting for all companies, not just software companies, to think about and try to understand what are the different tools in the fintech toolbox, 

and how could they be applicable to your business, big or small? Whether that be through cost reduction, or an area that's typically not talked about by finance and accounting professionals is enhancing the revenue.

Adam:            Totally, and I think the other part of the problem that we run into, with every company being a fintech company is that, you and I were touching on this a little bit before we started recording, where does it live? Your IT team has to manage it and finance has to touch it, but nobody really owns it. And how can you really fully manage it if no one really owns the software, when it's within your company?

Joe:                 Yes, and that is a really big issue. And part of our JustiFi, we have what we call our tech infrastructure, but we also have an engaged fintech team. Where we have a dedicated chief payments officer. A chief fintech officer that's available to our clients because they sit in between finance and accounting, and product and engineering or IT at a particular company. But I would think one of the things that I would really encourage and if multiple people own something, to your point, Adam, then nobody owns it. 

But to finance and accounting professionals, to really take the ownership of how can we and challenging the status quo. Does this 3% need to be 3% when we collect or how could we think about differently on lowering cost? 

How could we think differently on what adjacent revenue streams could be available to us. Where you're enhancing the offerings to your customers? It may not be the core product but, ultimately, it's been said that on every dollar in commerce, there's up to 10% of that. So a thousand basis points that is available and leaks out, whether that's in fees-in fees-out, early pay discounts, all of these different things. 

So I would encourage from a strategic perspective, it's one that finance and accounting can own this. Implementation of how it's working is more product and engineering.

Adam:            Of course, an example that comes to mind is I just saw an article, a couple of days ago. Where Amazon is going to start accepting Venmo as a payment option. And if the big behemoth, Amazon, can start accepting Venmo as a payment. What possibilities are there for every company to accept different types of payments, and be more creative using technology?

Joe:                 That's right and, sometimes, you're accepting a type of payment like Venmo or a buy now, pay later, and it's actually a more expensive payment method. Those are more expensive payment methods, then credit card and debit card, and then bank transfers, and ACH, going all the way down. And you do that because you're trying to get more customers or you're trying to ease the customer journey, the customer experience. 

But in terms of every company being a fintech company, you want to make those choices with your eyes wide open. Because what if you could monetize or make money on that payment flow? And it takes certain kinds of architecture to do that. But just understanding the space, it's the first step. Why are we doing something? 

What is it actually going to cost?

And there's just an immense amount of opportunity that exists there. But basis points can matter at scale, they very much matter at scale.

Adam:            Yes, especially, when it's affecting your bottom line in the long run. Es...

Dive into the world of ESG (environmental, social, and governance) at IBM with our latest episode of Count Me In. Today we discuss the challenges and successes of implementing ESG objectives in a global corporation. Join our Guest John Mahoney, ESG External Reporting Project Manager and hear how IBM's commitment to sustainability, open communication, and cross-functional collaboration is driving positive change and shaping the future. If you want to learn how to navigate the complexities of ESG and unlock new opportunities, don't miss this episode! 

Connect with John: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmahoneycpa/
IBM Impact: IBM's ESG Framework | IBM

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In today's episode, we're joined by John Mahoney, an ESG external reporting project manager, IBM. He shares his unique journey and insights into the company's approach to ESG integration. We discuss the importance of having the right company culture. Support from leadership, and cross functional collaboration to make ESG initiatives successful. So sit back and relax and let's explore how IBM is uniting for a sustainable future.

Now, John, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We're really excited to talk about ESG, and ESG at IBM. And, so, many professionals, in this space, have been reluctant to engage with ESG for a number of different reasons. But maybe you can start with talking about what your journey is, was to get here.

John:              Of course, and my thanks to you, Adam, and the IMA, for having me. I'm excited to be a part of the Count Me In series, it's really great. In terms of my story, I'd say I've had a relatively conventional accounting background, in that I spent the first chunk of my career in public accounting. Splitting my time between audit and advisory services.

Where I was fortunate to have the chance to work with some really great clients, and help them navigate through complex and challenging topics. Spanning from the adoption of accounting standards, acquisitions, carve-outs, stocks implementation, as well as, some SEC reporting jobs. 

So I was really grateful to have seen so many different things, early on, in my career, in public, and I knew I wanted my next role to be dynamic as well. So I was very thankful to have landed at IBM. First joining the Accounting Practices and External Reporting Organization, which is really a consultative group focusing mostly on technical accounting consultations, as well as the preparation of IBM's periodic SEC filings. 

I had always enjoyed the reporting aspect of the job, and helping companies craft their stories and messaging to external parties. So I knew I wanted to stay close to that and I was grateful that the opportunity at IBM afforded me that. So, as you can tell, I don't have an ESG background, but I did know I wanted to continue to explore new topics. And with all of that being said, I had been keeping an eye on the energy in the ESG space, and I had expressed interest to stay involved wherever possible within the group. 

So when the opportunity arose to make it a full-time job, I jumped right in headfirst. And really saw this as a great chance to apply the skills that I've been working on, thus far, in my career to a new area and one that was not only hyper relevant, in the time, but also deeply purposeful in terms of subject matter. 

We spend a lot of time working on dollars and cents related topics and working through financial statements, and this was just a really exciting opportunity to apply my skill set in a different forum. 

So, well, I can't speak to reluctance, personally, I'd even venture to say that we're probably passing the point of reluctance. But for those that are hesitant, I'd encourage everyone to engage and start exploring the topic and draft standards. 

While it is gaining more momentum as a topic, there's still only a small amount of accounting folks that are focused on it currently. And with the rules still being written, it's a great chance to get in on the ground floor and establish yourself as a go-to person, not only within your organization, but really the space at large. So really excited to be a part of the journey, and keen to see where it takes me and all of us at large.

Adam:            And I'm really excited to hear about your journey, as we've heard other people's journeys when it comes to ESG. I find that everybody's journey is different and I feel that that brings a real diversity of thought into the ESG space. Which is needed in something that's growing and something that's just starting out, you need to have many different perspectives.

John:              I couldn't agree more, and everyone I've engaged with have been coming from a diverse background. And some folks have that key SEC reporting or accounting footing, and other folks, perhaps, have spent more time in true-blooded ESG functions, if you will. I think between the pending rule on SEC climate, the Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive in Europe, the ISSB standards, we just haven't seen anything of this magnitude all at once. 

So bringing together a diverse group to really tackle this watershed moment for the profession. It's going to have broad impacts on not only finance and accounting organizations, but organizations for years to come.

Adam:            Yes, definitely, so when organizations bring on ESG into their organization. You have to start combining the ESG objectives with the overall objectives of the organization. How does IBM go about harmonizing those objectives?

John:              Yes, so, no surprise, IBM is a large company. We've got more than 280,000 employees, globally, operating in more than 170 countries. So with that scale, and for the scale of most large companies, there's always countless initiatives and objectives that need to coexist, simultaneously. 

We are lucky in that IBM does have a great legacy with ESG just as it relates to climate. We incorporated our first environmental policy in 1971, and began reporting on CO2 emissions as early as 1994. But truly have a deep history in all three pillars of ESG. So that legacy is great, in that it not only gives us a head start in navigating the landscape and proposed rules. But it also has helped establish responsibilities within the organization, as well as avenues for communication between groups. 

So really fortunate to have that legacy. But even with that head start, recent activity in the ESG space comes with even more and it adds incremental objectives that we all need to navigate. Including pending regulations that I've mentioned. Rating agency requests, shareholder needs, analyst inquiries, and countless other internal and external factors. 

So really important to emphasize how important that open lines of communication and regular touch points with different functions are. And, also, the importance of educational sessions to bring awareness of what other functions are managing and striving towards.

Leadin...

In this episode of the Count Me In podcast, host Adam speaks with Matt Druckman, an expert in the field of crypto accounting, about the challenges of accounting for digital assets. With no authoritative guidance in place, Matt explains the framework of best practices and opinions that have been pulled together to guide the industry. However, as the nature of crypto and digital assets is changing rapidly, there is a need for increased vocalization and guidance from regulatory bodies such as the FASB. Matt also highlights the complexities of cost basis and accessing and making sense of data, which can present challenges for accountants as they try to categorize and report on digital assets. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the field of crypto accounting and the future of accounting for digital assets.

Connect with Matt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-druckman-60a21938/

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. The podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. In today's episode we explore the world of crypto accounting with Matt Druckman, currently, the Vice President of Business Development at Soft Ledger. A company focused on helping companies get their data faster. 

Despite the existence of non-authoritative guidance, there is still no clear framework for crypto accounting. The lack of clarity is due to the, constantly, evolving nature of digital assets. Which are not easily categorized within traditional accounting practices. Join us as we navigate the Wild West of crypto accounting and discuss best practices for accounting, in this rapidly changing field.

Matt, thank you so much for coming on the Count Me In podcast today. I'm really excited to be talking to you about crypto accounting. And, as everybody knows, Bitcoin has been around since 2008. But when you look at the authoritative guidance there is none, it feels like the Wild West. And maybe, as an expert in the field, you can talk a little bit about what it looks like to be in the crypto accounting space.

Matt:              Great, thanks so much for having me on, Adam. Happy to get into this a little bit with you. You're exactly right, there is not authoritative guidance, yet, on the topic. What we have is non authoritative guidance. We have this framework of best practices and opinions, that have been pulled together that folks are following. 

There's a really good practice aid that the AICPA put out on accounting and auditing digital assets, and that's proven to be very helpful. But there is not this authoritative framework for people to follow. So everyone's still figuring this out and the nature of crypto, and digital assets, and their evolution is it's this breakneck pace. Things are changing on a daily, weekly, basis. 

So there's, definitely, a need and an increased vocalization to have this guidance in place. And it does look like the FASB is really starting to take a harder look at this, we'll probably get into it a little bit later. But there's been some momentum, recently, specifically, in October, but right now it's still early days.

Adam:            So when we think about accounting. It's been the same since the 15th century, when the first accountants came into place and they were writing their entries. The accounting has pretty much been the same at its core. And when you look at digital assets, they don't really fit that core. And, so, what does that look like, especially, prior to this FASB vote that happened in October of 2022?

Matt:              Yes, it's a great point. And, so, you have this new asset class, digital assets, come into play here, and we need to figure out a way to account for them. And, I think, that's where some of this complexity has really arisen, is trying to figure out where to put these. And then once you put them there, what guidance are we following? And there, probably, isn't a one-size-fits-all and that's what's happened. 

And, so, currently, or prior to this vote, digital assets, for the most part, were treated as intangible assets, and following the guidance within ASC 350. And, so, as a result, you also need to follow the impairment guidance that exists, and it doesn't quite match up with the economics of what's taking place with a lot of these assets. Where you have these very active markets, readily available prices. 

And, so, the idea of marking down an asset, and pairing an asset, when there is an event, which would theoretically be anytime the price drops below cost. You're never going to be able to write that back up. And that just doesn't quite make sense, in terms of how people are viewing these assets, and how they're using them, and they're leading to some very material impacts on financial statements. 

And, so, that in and of itself is an area that people have been very vocal about, and trying to take a better look at how these should be classified and updating how we're accounting for them.

Adam:            So, Matt, are there any more complexities that accountants have to be aware of, as they're really getting into the nuts and bolts of this accounting?

Matt:              Yes, the cost basis piece is definitely a tricky one that we've addressed, and that can present a lot of issues, especially, with higher volumes. But another one that should be known is just the accessing and making sense of your data. It sounds like something that should be so simple. 

You have these series of transactions that are taking place on an exchange, or within a wallet, or on a blockchain. And you're just assuming that you can pull that data down, easily, and it's all going to make sense, and everything's going to be nicely categorized and classified the way you want to see it. And that's really just not the case, at least, not in all cases, some have better data outputs than others.

But, especially, as you start to get into more complex transactions and, maybe, you're getting more involved in DFI's, or dealing with NFTs, or just different less-plain vanilla transactions, if you will. Being able to make sense of the data that you're pulling down, and tag that properly, and ensure that that's going to be getting into the system in a way that you want to report on it. 

It can be a bit manual. There could be a process that needs to take place, to make sure that you're properly categorizing everything and getting it into the system. It's not just going to pop out of an exchange or another data source, and everything's going to be nice and neat. So I think that going into it, knowing that there's going to need to be some work there and probably some processes that need to be ironed out. 

Certainly, if you have maybe a little bit more of a sophisticated operation, and you're capable of putting a business logic layer on top of that data before it gets into your platform. A system like ours, like Soft Ledger, that's programmable via API, that's one way that data could be ingested. 

So there are some things to help automate that and smooth that process, but it can be a bit manual. I would think that in the future, as there's more reg...

Graham Stanton and Edgar Thomas co-founders of Advise  join Count Me In to talk about the current state of the market for accounting technology and the status of the industry today, which is constantly evolving. They discuss the lack of innovation in the accounting technology market and the pain points that practitioners face when using traditional tools. They share their vision for changing the status quo and making the accountant's job easier by reducing manual processes and reporting financial data more accurately and timely. The podcast also highlights the challenges of getting practitioners to adopt new technologies and the need for reimagining tasks to automate and reduce time spent on them.

Connect with our speakers:
Graham Stanton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grahamstanton/
Edgar Thomas: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edgart1/

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In today's episode, we have Graham Stanton and Edgar Thomas, the co-founders of Avise. A company that provides accounting technology solutions. Both my guests have seen many pain points that accountants face daily, and have worked hard to build solutions that address those pain points. 

Despite the available innovation, practitioners still use the same tools from 15 to 20 years ago because of the lack of penetration by newer tools. Both Graham and Edgar share their vision of making an accountant's job easier and reducing manual processes. Join us as we discuss how technology can help accountants and the challenges they face, adopting new technology.

Adam:            Graham, Edgar, I just want to thank you both for coming on the podcast, today. We're really excited to have the co-founders of Avise on the podcast with us, today. And today we're going to talk about accounting technology. And I figure we could start off by discussing what is the current state of the market for accounting technology, and the status of the industry, today? Because it's constantly moving and evolving.

Edgar:            Yes, thank you, Adam, really appreciate you having us both on, today. And, yes, it's a topic that we both feel very passionately about. For me, as an inactive CPA, but a practitioner that has worked with a lot of accounting tools, I've seen it from both sides. 

So, right now, as an entrepreneur, building a solution that solves a lot of the pain points that I saw in the marketplace. But also the pain points that we're getting feedback from our current clients and prospects of our own. It is an exciting time to be looking at it because there is a lot of innovation going on today. But quite, frankly, practitioners, today, are doing a lot of the same thing and using a lot of the same tools they were using 15, 20 years ago. Because there's been such little penetration by the tools out there, today, available. 

So when I was practicing as an in-house accountant, a lot of the tools I found lacked the vision or the understanding of what a practitioner needed to do. So they were focused more on FP&A and other finance functions. But didn't really focus on improving the lives of the core accounting suite. That the accountants had to do their jobs in on a day-in and a day-out basis. 

So if you go and talk to an in-house accountant, at a company, and they talk about their close. And they say that it's five days, it's 10 days, it's 15 days, or maybe even 30 days long. And when you, actually, dissect the things that they're doing, you immediately see opportunities for improvement based on the tools that are available today, but are not available to the accountants, yet. 

So that's one of the things that I feel very passionate about. Changing that and making it so that the accountants benefit from a lot of the tools and a lot of the innovation that we see elsewhere in the finance tech stack. 

So when it comes to tools like the ones we're building at Avise it's really focused on how do we make the accountant's job easier. To close the books, report out the information, the financial data more accurately and in a timely fashion, and reduce a lot of the manual processes.

Graham:        I'll add to that a little bit. Obviously, Edgar and I share this vision here, and when we were getting started there's a lot of real pain coming through in our discussions. I previously worked somewhat cross-functionally and had a lot of experience with the tools that the marketers get, and that data engineers get. Ultimately, FP&A was starting to get, and, for whatever reason, the accountants have been at the end of the line.

And there's been a lot of attitude of, "Well, accountants are paid to do this busy work, so what's the problem here?" And it's unfortunate, and, thankfully, accountants are starting to wake up and saying, "Well, it's the year 2022, almost 2023, we don't need to put up with this anymore."

Adam:            And I think sometimes the biggest thing is that if it's not broke, they don't want to try to fix it. We've been doing the same thing and using the same technology for 15, 20 years, as Edgar was saying. But why change things up and mess it up? What do you guys think is the biggest problem with the current technology, the state of the technology as it is today?

Edgar mentioned some of those things, people are trying to cut down the close, and those are some of the big problems that they're dealing with. But what's the problem with the actual technology that you think is causing them to not adopt it as fastly as possible?

Edgar:            Yes, I can take this, I like the way your insight there is that, for a lot of folks they accept this status quo as, like "This is the way things are and should be, or will continue to be." One of the things I really enjoy about my job today is that as we show our tool to folks, the response is very common one. Where it's just like, "Oh, I didn't even know that that was possible, or I didn't even think about how much time it took for me to do that task."

So a simple thing like a reconciliation month in and month out, may take an accountant 30 minutes, an hour, 2 hours, and it's just an accepted part of the job, "My job is to reconcile an account."

But then when you reimagine what a reconciliation is, and you automate a lot of the components of that reconciliation, and reduce that from 30 minutes down to five minutes, a light bulb goes off. It's just like, "Okay, these are minutes, hours, of my life that I can get back, and I can do more value added things for the business besides a lot of these things, which are, quite frankly, busy work."

So one of the things that we've come across is that there's a lack of knowledge. I've never seen this before among my accounting friends. I've never seen something like this before. And then it's like maybe a hesitation, like you said, "If it isn't broke don't fix it." If I know the system has been around since 1970 and, literally, my predecessors have been doing this, I know it works, and I will continue to do it. 

So it is a really exciting journey that we've been on at...

IMA is celebrating International Women's Day on March 8th to commemorate the cultural, political, and socioeconomic achievements of women.  In this special Count Me In podcast Yvonne Barber, CFO, HR Knowledge Source, discusses how the pandemic affected female small business owners and how some used management accounting strategies to help them become more  resilient.

Connect with Yvonne: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yvonnebarber/

Episode Transcript:

Margaret:       Hello, and welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Margaret Michaels. Every March, IMA celebrates International Women's Day. A day recognizing the unique contributions and accomplishments of women. 

Embracing equity is the theme of this year's celebration. Questions of equity are prevalent when speaking about women and the workplace. Nowhere is equity defined as the promotion of justice, impartiality, and fairness. Within the procedures, processes, and distribution of resources, according to IMA's Diversifying U.S. Accounting Talent Report.

More important than in the realm of small business. Where female, small business owners account for 21.4% or 1.24 million of all small businesses in the U.S., according to the Census Bureau. 

Today, I am here with Yvonne Barber, CFO of HR Knowledge Source and IMA's Small Business Committee Chair. To discuss how the pandemic affected female small business owners. And how some used management accounting strategies to help them become more resilient. 

We will consider the challenges these owners face in a competitive, post-pandemic business environment. And the ways strong management accounting principles, can help them operate their businesses more efficiently and profitably. Thank you for being here today, Yvonne.

Yvonne:          Thank you for having me.

Margaret:       So I guess we'll start with looking back at the pandemic. Which really did bring a lot of attention to small business owners and their challenges. At the height of the pandemic, you worked for Blue Abacus Solutions. An accounting services firm specializing in small businesses. Small businesses took a huge hit during the pandemic. With quarantines, social distancing rules, and employee turnover affecting their ability to operate and stay profitable. 

According to the World Economic Forum's Global Entrepreneurship Monitor, female small business owners were hit harder than men. With women 20% more likely than men to report business closures, due to the pandemic. Can you offer some perspective on why female-owned businesses were especially at risk?

Yvonne:          Sure, in addition to the resource that you mentioned. I've researched this topic to develop a better understanding of the challenges faced by small businesses. So that the IMA's Small Business Committee, where I serve, can offer the support needed to the small business community. 

And I found that the biggest factor to be the lack of access to funding and capital. A majority of female entrepreneurs self-fund their business. And this can limit the ability to scale their business or invest in the needed resources, to improve operations. 

One of the things that small businesses, in general, struggle with is looking forward at what's coming, as opposed to reacting to what's currently on their plate. And I think that is where a lot of small businesses found themselves. 

They just weren't in a position to handle what the pandemic served out to them, and that is one of the biggest factors. But among that, bias among customers was also listed as another factor. 

Now, this may not be a great obstacle for some women. Especially, here in the United States, I think we've made a lot of progress in that area. But I found several studies, throughout the world, that found customers are less likely to purchase goods or services from women-owned businesses. 

So there's a variety of reasons that women were impacted as they were. And I think it's difficult to offer a one-size-fits-all approach to this. I think, instead, it's good to look at each individual item. And address as it pertains to your business, as a female-owned business or a small business owner in general.

Margaret:       Yes, those are great points and I think the funding issue is very top of mind. And that's really interesting, the bias, I never thought about that. But women experience bias in a lot of realms. So it shouldn't be surprising that it's also prevalent in small business ownership and customer choices. Those are great points.

Yvonne:          Yes, that surprised me as well. Just because my perspective here, being in the United States, I think that we've learned to navigate that a little better. But in that The Small Business Committee, we serve a global membership. I am interested in what the challenges are for our membership. All over the world, not just here in the United States. So that was surprising to me. But it was helpful to see the information, so that I'm in a better position to offer what's needed for our members.

Margaret:       And the IMA's Small Business Committee does a great job, with helping members who are struggling with these issues. In fact, IMA's Small Business Committee published two important reports, to help guide small businesses through the COVID crisis, and to help them stay resilient post pandemic. 

I wonder what differentiated the businesses, who managed through the crisis versus the ones who failed? And from your perspective, why is it difficult, when you are a small business owner, to address both short-term crises and long-term strategy?

Yvonne:          I think the businesses who survived focused on sustainability and leveraged strong relationships, and a diverse network of sources to meet their needs. Those who prioritized relationships were just better positioned to survive the storm. The relationships include the customers, suppliers, as well as employees. And it can be tough to think about tomorrow when you're just trying to survive another week. 

I know a lot of small business owners. I know they're just trying to make payroll. But making short-term decisions that impact the long-term sustainability of a company, they may seem to help the short-term, but ultimately they do end up hurting the company.

Margaret:       I think that's something that even mid and large-sized businesses grapple with, is that balance between the short-term and the long-term. And not having those short-term decisions affect your ability to operate in the long-term. So that's absolutely on point. 

And now, as the immediate crisis of COVID passes, new risks are also emerging for small businesses. These include worker shortages, failure to embrace digitization, inflation, and supply chain disruptions. And without the resources that larger size companies enjoy. How can small businesses mitigate these risks?

Yvonne:    &...

Today we're excited to have Robert Cooke, the founder and Principal Architect of 3Forge, a New York-based fintech company that focuses on solving complex data problems in the accounting world. Robert joins Count Me In to share his story about his lifelong passion for computers and his journey to founding 3Forge. He breaks down the three buckets of data that the company focuses on: real-time streaming of data, asking computers about data, and data entry. Robert emphasizes the importance of having the right technology in place to analyze data properly and shares his experience working with various organizations to solve their data problems. Join us as we explore the fascinating world of fintech and data.

Episode Transcript:
 

Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. The podcast, where we examine all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I'm Adam Larson, and I'm excited to introduce our speaker today, Robert Cooke. Robert is the founder and principal architect at 3Forge, a New York-based provider of data visualization and visualization technology. Today, Robert and I discuss his passion on the interrelationship between computers, people, and data. And describes the future trends he expects to see in data management. 

Businesses of all sizes can gain value through using data to optimize and streamline their business. And we discuss how the technology chosen plays a role in driving a competitive advantage. Let's listen in to learn more.

Well, Robert, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We're really excited to talk about you and your organization, and fintech. And before we go there, I just wanted to start with maybe you could tell a little bit about your story and how you got to where you are?

Robert:           Okay, yes, great, Adam, thanks for having me on today. So my story is I'm a lover of all things computers. I've been into computers my whole life, ever since when I was a little kid. I went through the natural learning curve, which is, originally, I wanted to build video games, and this is in the early '80s. So I was focusing on what does it mean to write efficient code and things along those lines. And then later on, we had this club, and in the club people could buy sodas and buy candy bars, and things like that and it was like a Boy Scouts equivalent. But it was all being paper-driven in terms of the accounting and everything. And I felt, "Well, this is a great opportunity for computers."

And that's when I realized, wow, computers, as a kid, I always saw video games, and I realized these really are business machines, they can really help streamline things. And, so, our little club was actually, probably, one of the first grade school clubs to, actually, be managed through electric accounting. 

Now, I'm embarrassed by the system I built at the time it was very hardcoded for sodas and candy bars, but it still got me started on the concept. So I've really spent my whole life thinking about, abstractly, what it means to connect humans to data. And that can take you in a lot of places. 

And then I ended up working in fintech, it was Bear Stearns, it was in 2002. And I was head of infrastructure at the dark pool Liquidnet. My work product has been at many of the tier-one banks, but all the while it's been this, I would say my story has been one of interest in computers and interested in how humans and data interact.

Adam:            And that's a huge part of, especially, in the accounting world. Where you have to understand where your data is and what your data is doing. To be able to visualize it properly, to give the right reports to your CEO and all of those items. And, so, we all understand how important data is. What does your organization, what does 3Forge do in terms of data? How do they look at data?

Robert:           Well, I look at data, I've actually broken the problem down into three buckets. I think two of which are very important for accounting. But to be exhaustive, I'll go through all three of them. The first bucket is what I would call real-time streaming of data. And that is not necessarily as important for this conversation, but it is something that we focus on as well. So the idea is, as data is taking place somewhere you want to be able to have that streaming in, and as a human be able to read that in real-time. 

An example I could give is, if you think of, at this point, cars are pretty advanced. That dashboard in your car, that's real-time streaming information coming to you, telling you your speed limit. You don't have to ask the car, "What's my speed limit?" It's just always showing it to you, that's real-time. I think very cool things could be done in accounting with that, as you start to move into workflows, but I'll digress on that. 

The second thing is what I would call asking your computer about data. And, so, a very simple analogy would be you simply go on to Google and you type in, "Who is Adam Larson?" And then it comes up and gives you an answer. That would be you, a human, invoking a question, asking the computer and the computer comes back, that's the second thing. 

And then the third thing is data entry, which is pretty much what it sounds like. The ability to fill out a form, hit Submit and send that. And then that goes into the computer. Maybe it goes through some validity, maybe it goes through some workflow process, with the ability to enter data. So, to recap, we break it into three buckets– 

1. Data moving in real-time.
2. The ability to ask questions about data.
3. And the ability to enter data. 

And I think one of the cool things is, and this is like decades to come up with this answer. It almost seems embarrassing because it seems so simple, at the end of the day. But once you've thought about it in those three buckets, you can really start to tackle just about any problem that comes your way. And, frankly, accounting has some of the most deceptively, challenging problems there is. 

I mean, some of the systems that I've seen built on our platform are way beyond my understanding, to be quite frank. You know what I mean? But there's a lot that goes into it.

Adam:            Yes, there is a lot that goes into it. So that just goes to show it's really important to have the right technology in place, at your organization. To make sure that you can analyze your data properly. What have you seen as you've worked with many organizations. As they come to you with different problems and having to work through their data issues?

Robert:           Well, it's interesting because it goes without saying that Excel is the predominant piece of software being used. And Excel, I'm sure if I look, I've got five monitors here, I'm sure if I look around enough I'll find Excel up on one of them for something. 

And, I think, Excel is an incredibly powerful tool for certain activities, especially, if you're trying to mock things up quickly. You're trying to aggregate some data, maybe determine interest rates, something like that it's very good for that. 

But I do think it has a tendency to be overused, to the point of abused, and I think a lot of people would agree. But a...