Dads With Daughters

As the societal landscape continues to evolve, it's crucial for dads to have open conversations and seek understanding when it comes to supporting youth in the LGBTQIA+ community. In a recent episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, David Samson, a father and advocate for LGBTQIA+ youth, shared his experiences and insights. From fatherhood to the work he does at Time Out Youth, Samson shed light on the challenges, triumphs, and the importance of creating a supportive environment for LGBTQIA+ youth. In this blog post, we explore key takeaways from the conversation to provide guidance for dads looking to support their children and other LGBTQIA+ youth.

Fatherhood: A Journey of Understanding and Acceptance

Fatherhood is often described as a journey, and for David Samson, it’s a journey filled with unique challenges and triumphs. Samson emphasized the importance of creating a supportive community for fathers raising daughters and navigating the complexities of fatherhood. He underlined the significance of not parenting alone and highlighted the need for fathers to engage with other dads for support and guidance. 

For fathers of LGBTQIA+ youth, Samson’s perspective offers a valuable reminder that parenthood is an ongoing learning process. Each child’s journey is unique, and it’s crucial to provide unwavering love and support no matter what. Samson beautifully articulated the joy and challenges of being a father, touching on profound moments such as the first day his son went to school, demonstrating the emotional layers of parenthood.

Supporting LGBTQIA+ Youth: Challenges and Opportunities

When discussing his work at Time Out Youth, Samson highlighted the vital support they offer to LGBTQIA+ youth. From mental health services to housing support and community engagement, the organization serves as a beacon of acceptance and advocacy. The issues faced by LGBTQIA+ youth are complex and varied, ranging from homelessness to societal unacceptance. Samson discussed the challenges faced by trans and nonbinary youth, emphasizing the crucial need for understanding and support in today’s society.

Through his insights, Samson underscored the impact of the recent years, including the COVID-19 pandemic, on LGBTQIA+ youth. The increased periods of isolation and trauma have highlighted the critical need for supportive environments and understanding from family and the broader community. Dads of LGBTQIA+ youth can leverage resources such as Time Out Youth and PFLAG to enrich their understanding and create safer, more supportive spaces for their children.

Embracing Change and Acceptance

An essential aspect of Samson’s narrative is the potential conflicts parents may encounter when their children come out. He emphasized the importance of choosing to support and believe in one’s child, even when it challenges long-held beliefs. Samson acknowledged the internal struggles but emphasized the necessity of prioritizing one’s child over preconceived beliefs. Dads in this situation can find solace in resources like PFLAG and Trevor Project, which offer guidance and support in navigating conversations and acceptance.

Educating and Advocating

A Call to Action for Dads Samson highlighted the importance of being actively involved in youth-serving organizations and advocating for the LGBTQIA+ community. By participating in local prides, engaging with neighbors, and opening conversations about acceptance, dads can foster inclusive communities. Being present and supportive serves as a powerful start to effecting positive change in society.

The conversation with David Samson offers valuable insights and guidance for dads looking to provide support and understanding for their LGBTQIA+ children and other youth. As fathers, embracing change, practicing patience, and committing to learning and understanding are essential in creating inclusive environments for all children. By engaging with resources and proactive conversations, dads can empower themselves to be unwavering beacons of love and acceptance for LGBTQIA+ you

Navigating fatherhood while supporting LGBTQIA+ youth presents its own set of challenges and responsibilities. However, by acknowledging the significance of acceptance, education, and advocacy, fathers can create an environment that nurtures and uplifts all children, regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity. The conversation with David Samson provides a compelling and informative starting point for fathers to embark on this journey and become stalwart advocates for LGBTQIA+ youth.

Through empathy, openness, and a willingness to learn, dads can play a pivotal role in shaping an inclusive world for their LGBTQIA+ children and others in the community.

In conclusion, Samson’s insights and experiences highlight the transformative power of loving and supporting one’s children unconditionally, thereby forging a future that embraces and celebrates diversity and inclusion in all its forms.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]:
Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:
Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong independent women. Doc. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to sit down with you, to work with you, to be able to talk to you Dog. About this journey that you and I are both on. I've tie told you before, I've got 2 daughters myself. I've been where you are at, And I know that every day is a little bit different, and every day is a journey. The biggest thing here that and I say this over and over again to you is that the You don't have to do this alone.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:54]:
It is so important to know that there is a community of fathers out there that you can reach out to, that you can talk to. The You don't have to go alone and think that you have to father alone because that's really lonely, and that is really Docs. It's something that that that a lot of times as society, we've kinda feel like we have to man up. We have to the Figure it out for ourselves and you don't. So that's why it's so important that every week we sit down, we talk, we learn together from other their fathers from other people with many different resources that they're sharing to be able to help you on this journey that you're on. Every week, I also love being able to bring you different guests, the different people that have had different experiences that are fathers that have resources that are here to help you Doc. To be that dad that you wanna be in today, we got another great guest. David Sampson is with us today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:49]:
And David is a father. He is the He lives down in North Carolina, works for a organization called Time Out Youth, and we're gonna talk more about that today. The David has worked to raise over $30,000,000 in funds to support nonprofits, but he works with youth to help youth in many different ways. And the And the things that he's doing, especially in the intersection of working with LGBTQ youth, I think is really important because the All of us are working with different kids. Our kids are maybe in that same community, and we have to be able to support our kids no matter what. The So it is important to understand and to know, you know, what David has learned along the way in working with youth, the But also learn about his own experience in being a father as well. So I'm really excited to have him here. David, thanks so much for being here today.

David Samson [00:02:41]:
Hey. Thanks so much. It's so great to be here and to be able to share some perspective with you and the great folks who are listening and who you're supporting. I really appreciate it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:50]:
I appreciate you being on. And 1st and foremost, we gotta talk about you being a dad because you are a father of a son. I wanna turn the clock back in time. I wanna go back to that first moment that you found out you were going to be a the Father, what was going through your head?

David Samson [00:03:01]:
I have a 5 year old son. Gosh. When I found out I was gonna be a dad, it was At the end of a very long journey, Jasper was born via surrogacy. So the planning for him to come really was Decades worth of work, honestly. It was, you know, saving money and planning and trying to understand what it meant to be a gay dad in this world. We had just no marriage equality. So we were sort of in the midst of a transition as a country, but I always knew the From the day that, really, I became an adult that I wanted to be a parent. So to have that opportunity to have and and raise such an an amazing boy was a dream come true, no Quite honestly, I remember the 2nd we got the positive pregnancy test, I was just, like, in tears.

David Samson [00:03:48]:
And I don't think I stopped crying from that point until Dom. The 2nd I held them in my arms for the 1st time, it was really magical.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:56]:
Now I have to ask this question because I think the You have that glow and that that magic. As you said, it's magical when you're holding your child for the 1st time, but it's not always roses. It's not always the Positives. The there's ups and downs to parenting, and you have to learn along the way how to balance all of that. Talk to me about what's been the hardest part the for you in being a father.

David Samson [00:04:19]:
So it's I feel like it's different for every parent. Right? Like, Jasper was the easiest infant. He really was. You know, we sleep trained him. And from the time he was 12 weeks old, he was sleeping 12 hours a night. Like, it was unbelievable. And then he turned 3. And when he turns 3, it was like, oh, This is what everybody is talking about because up until that point, I'm telling you, he was the easiest kid. Even when he learned to walk and, you know, was running around, he was still pretty the Cautious. He didn't you know, wasn't too reckless, didn't injure himself or do anything, but, man, he really found his space when he turned 3. The And kinda since then until now, it's I feel like we've gotten our our punch of tough parenting. So we've learned to set boundaries. We've learned, the Kinda what it means to push back, and we've learned a lot of his tricks along the way. But it's a different experience for everyone, but infant, easy. Toddler, tough.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:22]:
So as a father, what would you say has been your biggest fear in raising a child in today's society?

David Samson [00:05:28]:
Feel like I'm always gonna say the wrong And I think that that is a fear that every parent has. You know, I think back to to my childhood, and there are A lot of things that my parents said to me that stuck. So I always try and pause a little bit before I speak. I listen to him. I try and look at him and and try and figure out what he's going through in that moment and what he actually needs As opposed to looking at him throwing a tantrum on the floor. So, yeah, I feel like just really thinking about the words that come out of my mouth, really Understanding the impact that everything that we say as parents have on our kids. But, yeah, it's a it's a fear I live with every day that I'm gonna traumatize them somehow say the wrong thing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:14]:
I smile at that because I think that I think every father feels that way, that what we say, what we do is going to, as you said, scar them, the Make you know, do something that's going to impact who they become. And I think that it's the Possible that there are things that you can do definitely that could scar them or impact them, but they're pretty resilient. The And they definitely forgive more than and they forget things a lot more so than we do. So just to give you some some perspective.

David Samson [00:06:47]:
I appreciate that. Yeah. I've learned how to apologize more as a parent than ever than at any point in my life. Like, I've gotten really good at saying I'm sorry to my son because I think that's really important. Right? Because you're always wondering, is this the moment that he's never gonna forgive me for Slightly raising my voice, and I'm like, oh, I just you know, I curl up like a kid in the corner. I really do. I'm like, I want you to be okay. I want you to feel love, and I don't want you to to, you know, to feel this energy that I'm giving off right now in this sort of heated moment.

David Samson [00:07:19]:
So, yeah, thank you for that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:21]:
The Now one of the things that I I just mentioned was the fact that as a parent, as a father, you do have to find that balance for yourself the To be that engaged dad that you wanna be, but then there's also the pull to the work that you do and the things that you do to provide the family as well. So talk to me about balance in thus far how you have had to or what you have had to do To balance both work and raising your son.

David Samson [00:07:51]:
Yeah. Because he can't do one without the other, Right. As it turns out. And I've had progressive responsibilities in my role here at Time Out Youth. I I started in the midst of the pandemic as the director of development and then the director of advancement. Now I'm the the chief operating officer. So it's not like my my work has gotten less. It's gotten much more.

David Samson [00:08:11]:
So I find myself really Struggling at times to have the time to to dedicate, but you have to. Luckily, I work for a wonderful nonprofit who understands that work, life balance is incredibly important. They know Jasper. They love Jasper. They see me as a person, first here at Time Out Youth and not a number in, you know, no Some big corporations. So I I'm lucky enough to have a supportive work family who respects my home life. I start my day by getting up with him or he'll crawl into bed with us and curl up for 20 minutes, no If that ever ends, I'm just gonna lose my mind because those are the best moments, but it's really nice to start my day with him. The You know what I mean? I just get to start my day with my son, and it centers me immediately.

David Samson [00:09:01]:
You know? And then I get up, and I read my work emails, and my brain gets going, and then I have to stop again, and I have to make breakfast for him. And then I have more moments with him in the morning. And then it's no A struggle getting him ready for school and packing his backpack and rushing around and getting out the door, but then more moments in the car. So I think that truly finding those steady moments throughout the day when you're together, even when you're in the midst of, you know, your busiest time at work or whatever it might be. Truly just capturing and having those very few moments with him, even if they might be fleeting, are Incredible opportunities to bond as parents, and I really value them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:44]:
It is really important to find those moments, Dom. As you said, the the opportunities to make those specific bonds with your child. Now you have 1 child. Now the What do you do individually as a dad to be able to make that connection, to develop that connection with your son? The Because we know that each child is unique, but that your children may have very different interests in very different ideas of what is fun than what you may think is fun. So what do you do to be able to build that unique relationship the that you want to have with your son.

David Samson [00:10:23]:
No. You're exactly right. He's into totally different stuff than I was when I was a kid or I am now. I was a music major in college, so I had this, like, grand vision that my son was gonna come out and be a the A pianist or a vocalist or something, and that is not happening, which is sort of heartbreaking for me. My husband bought us a the Piano for my birthday last year. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna teach Jasper how to play the piano. He's gonna sit down with me. Like, You know, like, my mom sat down with me and taught to you know, taught me to play the piano.

David Samson [00:10:57]:
He doesn't care at all. Nothing. Now he can he knows where middle c is. We've done a few lessons, but he would much rather go do, like, LEGO robotics, which is, like, So far outside of the realm of anything that I was interested in or am interested in. So I feel like for a while, I tried to push him into things that were in my comfort zone, but it has nothing to do with my comfort zone. It's about supporting him and the things that he wants to do and Really fostering that that passion and that fire in whatever it is that he wants. So he's only 5. Right? So we're still in the midst of, like, the Trying to figure out exactly what it is that he likes or what he's good at or what he thinks he's good at.

David Samson [00:11:39]:
So we still try and push him in as many different directions as we can. But when he latches onto something and when we can kinda see the wheels turning in his head, It's really exciting. And we latch onto that with him, and we get excited for him. And we're already finding ourselves, like, the Pushing him towards the things that he really loves and, you know, just going all in with him as much as we can.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:04]:
Well, that's so fun. And and maybe there's some intersection there. Because if he likes the LEGO robotics, you maybe you can do some stop motion type things where you bring music to the robotics that he builds And do something fun like that.

David Samson [00:12:18]:
Yeah. Look inside the piano lid and see the hammer. Right? Like, yeah, it's super cool. It's all connected. They'll figure it out. We'll help them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:25]:
Now You mentioned the fact that you are or I mentioned the fact that you are a part of Time Out Youth. You talked about that as well and the organization itself. Tell me more about Time Out Youth. I know it's been around since 1991. It's serving LGBTQIA plus youth, but tell me more about the organization, What your mission is and how you're working with youth in many different ways.

David Samson [00:12:49]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So you mentioned it has been around since 1991, and that's right. The We are the oldest in the Carolinas, and we are also the biggest in the Carolinas. In between, Washington DC and Northern the Florida. Time out youth is the standard of LGBT youth centers on the East Coast. So our mission, is to support LGBTQ the youth by offering vital programs, fostering unconditional acceptance, and creating safe spaces for self expression through leadership, the community support and advocacy. So we do that in a number of ways.

David Samson [00:13:23]:
Our bread and butter are youth 13 to 24 the Here in the Charlotte Metro region, we have mental health services, free counseling services. We offer really vital housing support the Services here at Time Out Youth. And then we have social interaction space. So 5 days a week, we offer programming whether virtually or in person here in the center. The And then Fridays Saturdays, we have drop ins space. So Friday nights are for our big kids, so 18 to 24. And then Saturdays are for our younger youth who no We're 13 to 18. So on any given day from the time we get here at 10 o'clock up until school's out, We're usually offering housing services, job search functions to our kids who are houseless or have been kicked out of their homes due to unacceptance.

David Samson [00:14:12]:
So in in that time period, we're really seeing a very specific group of kids. And then in the evenings, it's anyone's guess. These are kids. So we might have 30 or 40 kids who are coming in and just wanna hang out and play video games, or we might be having a trans specific group That evening or talking to our our youth who identify as asexual, any number of things can happen at any given moment here. Along with all that, we also offer community engagement work. So we have a really fantastic community engagement manager who goes out into the community, the Works with educators, administrators, corporations, small businesses, you name it, and helps to educate folks on the best way To serve LGBTQ youth when they're not within safe space of our 4 walls. So last year, she educated 2,000 community members here in the metro regions. It's really a full slate of services that we offer our youth as well as our community.

David Samson [00:15:09]:
I'm really proud of and the work that we do.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:11]:
Now you work with a lot of different youth or your organization does as well, and I'm sure you do as well. And the Things have changed over the years. I know many people that were very silent when I was growing up and did not the Come out until college or beyond because of the unacceptance in society. I'm seeing much more now the In the generation that my children are in, that at least children are very accepting and are much more accepting the than they would have been when I was a youth. So as you're working with these youth, what are some of the big issues the that they are bringing to you. You talked about homelessness, but what are some of the other issues that are really prevalent in today's LGBTQ youth that other people may not be aware of.

David Samson [00:16:05]:
Yeah. You know, you're right that things have changed, especially politically. Right? What has not changed is that there is still rampant unacceptance in the form of religion, in the form of the Family structure that is unsupportive traditionally of our youth and that sometimes these kids have no place to go. Those kids are always going to exist. Docs. Whether we turn the clocks forward 50 years, there's always gonna be something. And especially for our trans and nonbinary youth, Especially here in the south. Things are very different in New England or California even than they are here in North Carolina.

David Samson [00:16:45]:
The In North Carolina, there is a a really large movement to really isolate our trans and nonbinary youth because as we've seen at no Any point throughout this movement, people don't understand, and they're just scared of what they don't understand. So we really work hard the To help people understand what our youth are going through, how to support them, and who they can be as people just to make These kids not feel so alone. These feelings of isolation, especially after 2020 and 2021 when a lot of our youth were forced To stay in unsupportive homes around the clock 247, there's a lot of trauma that happened in those years that were unraveling. And as our youth reemerge and, you know, come back into the building still, there was a lot that happened there that that we need to work through, and and we're working hand in hand every day with those youth to try and figure it out with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:37]:
Now there are dads out there that may have young kids, the may have kids that are struggling right now and trying to figure out who they are and try or they know who they are, but they're the Scared to come to their parents with that reality of who they are themselves? Are there specific things that you would recommend to dads, To parents that could help to create that atmosphere in the home that would allow for them the For that home to be that accepting place. And the 2nd piece of that is if personally, as a father, you have the Views that are contrary to typically accepting LGBTQ, but your child comes to you the And says, I am this way. I feel this way. I am this person. How do you reconcile that Doc. And are there resources that can help you to move and to a accepting of the person in that sense, Even though you may still have those fundamental beliefs that are at opposite ends.

David Samson [00:18:44]:
Yeah. It's an internal struggle. I'm not that person, but I I understand that those people exist. You know what I mean? It makes total sense. My dad was the An air force colonel. He was in the air force for 30 years, and I grew up around this toxic masculinity that really invaded a lot of our family life. And so as a young person coming out, I was terrified.

David Samson [00:19:09]:
I was absolutely terrified. My mother's a pastor. I get it. No. It turns out that they were incredibly accepting, and I had nothing to worry about. The But that's just not the case. But I there's a choice to be made. Is your kid gonna come first? And I know that sounds harsh, but, truly, Doc.

David Samson [00:19:29]:
Is your kid gonna come first? Do they come above these beliefs that you have developed for yourself your entire life? The Are you willing to change for your child? Because your child is not going to change for you. They might pretend. You know? They might pretend until they're 18, but the You're running such a risk, and how sad to run the risk of losing a child just because you, as an adult, who should have the skills the change. You're just so unwilling. So, yeah, there's a choice to be had, and there are great resources out there. PFLAG, which stands for the Parents and friends of lesbians and gays. There's a chapter in every major city in the United States and no A lot of smaller cities in the United States. So go to pflag.org and find resources to help you as a parent Navigate that with your child.

David Samson [00:20:21]:
It's incredibly important. You know, we started this conversation with me saying I was always scared I was gonna say the wrong thing. It's the Really easy to say the wrong thing to someone who is so fragile in the coming out process, whether they're coming out as gay or lesbian or Brands or nonbinary or whatever it is. There are very specific things that you can say that are not gonna help and that will just Make your child feel even, you know, more isolated and even more of an outcast than they already feel like they are. Dogs. So it's important to be careful and to really consider every step along the way the impact that that that you're gonna have on your child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:00]:
I think it's so important, and, the You know, I've talked to other fathers that have youth that are at many different aspects of the spectrum in regard to the Whether they are they're they're gay, they're lesbian, they're, you know, they're asexual, they're trans, and They go through their own journey just like their child goes through a journey of better understanding. And I think one of the things that I hear from I've heard from them many times is the The some of the times, the challenges of pronouns and changing your brain to think in different ways. And I think one of the things you said earlier is so important, especially when you have a child that is LGBTQIA QIA plus and they come to you and start talking is to be honest and open with them and say, I'm gonna make mistakes, And I may use the wrong pronoun. I may say something that's going to upset you, and we need to be able to the Talk and communicate and be willing to have this type of conversation so that I can learn just as you're learning about who you are.

David Samson [00:22:14]:
Yeah. It takes an extra layer of patience sometimes, and I totally get it. Like, you know, a teenager is still a teenager. Right. So if you tell a teenager, like, be patient with me, they're not gonna be patient with you. They're a teenager. But I get it. It's this extra layer.

David Samson [00:22:29]:
And the the pronouns conversation, It's the easiest one to have. You're gonna make mistakes. Absolutely. It's okay. You say sorry. You correct yourself. You move on. That's it.

David Samson [00:22:38]:
You know what I mean? You don't make a big deal. Those struggles that people have with with pronouns are not about the person that is asking you to use the correct pronouns as about themselves. I'm named after my dad. I understand that if I changed my name to him, Dom. That would have seems like some sort of slap in the face because he gave me his name. That happens all the time. But, again, That's not about him. Like, it's a choice that you as a parent have to make to respect your child and to believe your child and just listen to your DIL.

David Samson [00:23:11]:
And I hope that the majority of people out there do that and understand that truly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:16]:
Now for dads that are out there that the May not have a child that is a part of the LGBTQIA plus community, but they want Docs. Support the community, and they want to support other youth, other friends of their children. What's the best way for them to advocate or to support the The community from a external perspective.

David Samson [00:23:39]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So find your local, youth serving organization, LGBTQ youth serving organization. They're smaller in a lot of places, but they're incredibly vital resources. You can go to our website, which is no Time at youth dot org, and we have a resource section where you can go find local pflag chapters. You can go read Trevor Project studies. I mean, Trevor Project also has an the amount of resources, including crisis resources throughout the United States. So but, really, go support those organizations and show up where you can.

David Samson [00:24:12]:
Show up at your local prides. Show up in support of your youth at schools and out in the community, and just Be there as a supportive face and as a smiling face. Showing up is half the battle. Right? So really just being there is is Enough sometimes.

David Samson [00:24:28]:
Well and the other thing that I think that I'd throw out there is as you get involved and if you bring your families and have them be involved, the You can start having conversations and start to allow your children to better understand the The people that are around them and that there are differences, and that's okay, And that it normalizes things as well.

David Samson [00:24:54]:
Yeah. No. Absolutely. It's the know your neighbor campaign. You can put a the Face and a name to all of these different labels that society has put on us. So, yeah, having those conversations is an incredible first step. Doc.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:07]:
Now, David, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

David Samson [00:25:15]:
Oh, boy. Ready?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:18]:
In one word, what is fatherhood? Floating. When was a time when you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father.

David Samson [00:25:26]:
The 1st day that Jasper went to big kids' school, he gave me a hug, he turned around, And he walked in that front door confidently.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:37]:
Now if I was to talk to your son, how would he describe you as a dad?

David Samson [00:25:42]:
I hope that he would see Me as the caretaker. My husband is the fun dad. He plays with him not more, but better than I ever could. I think That. I think I'm the caregiver. I don't know. That's a tough one.

David Samson [00:25:58]:
I cook and I drive him to school and, you know, I clean. I I feel like that's my zone. You know what I mean? So I don't know. Ask me in 10 years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:07]:
Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

David Samson [00:26:09]:
My dad. He was incredible.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:12]:
Now you have given a number of pieces of advice, resources that dads can take and can use for themselves. The As we finish up today, what's 1 piece of advice that you'd wanna give to every dad?

David Samson [00:26:23]:
Be patient with yourself. We've talked a lot about mistakes in this conversation. Know that you're gonna make mistakes And learn to forgive yourself and know the importance of apologizing to your kid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:35]:
Well, David, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your story and for telling us more about Time Out Youth. I really appreciate the work that you and your organization is doing, and I wish you all the best.

David Samson [00:26:49]:
Thank you, Chris. I appreciate you so much. Thank you for having me on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:52]:
If you've enjoyed today's episode of the dads with daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are the Figuring it out as they go along. And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. The Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step road maps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, the But more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together.org. If you are the Father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:41]:
We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat, and it's Full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents. The the mind blast, calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Donuts. Get out and be the world, choose them. Be the best dad you can be!

In a heartfelt and insightful episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, best-selling author, pastor, and evangelist Kelly K shares his personal journey of parenting, step-parenting, and maintaining faith in the modern world. Joining the host, Christopher Lewis, Kelly K offers valuable advice and wisdom on the importance of consistency, faith, and instilling self-worth in children. Let's delve into the key highlights of this enriching conversation.

Consistency in Parenting and Faith:

Kelly K underscores the significance of consistency in parenting, emphasizing the need to instill godly principles in children despite the evolving landscape of parenting approaches. His message of open and honest communication, treating children with respect, and nurturing self-worth resonates deeply in today's world. By sharing his personal experiences in guiding his daughter through challenging relationships and finding solace in the teachings of the Bible, Kelly K encourages parents to embrace a steadfast approach in shaping their children's lives.

Parenting Daughters and Instilling Self-Worth:

Christopher Lewis delves into Kelly K's experience of being a father to daughters, acknowledging the challenges of instilling value and self-worth in them. Through Kelly K's candid narrative of guiding his daughter through difficult relationships and ultimately witnessing her find a godly partner, listeners gain invaluable insights into the complexities of raising strong, independent daughters. This segment serves as a reminder of the pivotal roles fathers play in shaping their daughters' identities and fostering their resilience.

Using Social Media as a Mission Field:

Kelly K's unexpected journey of utilizing TikTok to spread messages of religion and spirituality unveils a fresh perspective on engaging with a younger demographic. By viewing social media as a mission field and voicing the initial hesitance followed by a divine calling to connect with the platform, Kelly K presents a compelling narrative of adapting to novel ways of spreading faith and values.

Authentic Content Creation and Faith:

Emphasizing the essence of authenticity in content creation for the younger generation, Kelly K touches upon the significance of making biblical truths relatable and comprehensible in today's society. His success on TikTok is attributed to providing a fresh perspective on biblical teachings, underscoring the impact of authenticity and relevance in reaching a global audience through social media.

Empowering Through Devotionals and Writing:

Kelly K's transition to becoming an author and the motivation behind writing "Think About That for a Minute, Volume 2, a 40-day devotional for a fresh perspective" further exemplifies his unwavering commitment to sharing God's word. Addressing the pressing issue of biblical illiteracy in today's generation, Kelly K's dedication to crafting devotionals that resonate with his audience signifies an empowering endeavor.

Navigating Step-Parenting and Family Dynamics:

Kelly K's poignant account of his step-parenting journey sheds light on the complexities and rewards of building strong family bonds. His emphasis on displaying love, grace, and mercy towards stepchildren serves as a testament to the transformative power of genuine relationships, offering guidance to individuals navigating similar challenges. 

Kelly K's profound insights on parenting, faith, and embracing modern platforms to spread meaningful messages serve as an inspiration to parents, step-parents, and individuals seeking to integrate faith into their everyday lives. His unwavering commitment to instilling self-worth, resilience, and values in children resonates deeply, affirming the enduring impact of love, grace, and faith in our journey through parenthood.

In conclusion, this episode of Dads with Daughters with Kelly K imparts invaluable wisdom, serving as a guiding light for individuals navigating the intricate roles of parenting, step-parenting, and living a faith-driven life. For more engaging conversations and insights on fatherhood, join the Fatherhood Insider and the Dads with Daughters Facebook community. Visit kellykministries.com for more information about Kelly K and his transformative work.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]:
Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:
Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Docs. Really excited to have you back again this week. I love being able to sit down and talk to you every week about the journey that you're on the In raising those daughters of yours. Every week, we have a great opportunity to be able to listen, to learn, to the Walk on this path together. And I say it's a path together because, you know, I've got 2 daughters. I know you've got daughters. You're listening because Dogs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:48]:
You're passionate about your kids, and it is so important to be open to learning because there's no one right way to father. Dog. It's so important that you are open to be able to listen to others and listen to their experiences because you may find some kernels, some things that are Dom. Help you along the journey that you're on as well. I love being able to also bring you different people, different guests, different men, women, Dog. And others that have had different journeys, that they've been on different journeys themselves, that have different experiences and different resources that they can share with you. And today, Dog. Got another great guest.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:27]:
Kelly Kaye is with us, and Kelly Kaye is a best selling author, pastor, and evangelist the Whose passion is traveling the world telling people about Jesus. Kelly Kaye has made a huge impact internationally by leveraging social media with daily the Teaching videos on TikTok. Kelly's unique style of speaking and communicating the Bible has captured the heart and attention of 1,000,000. The He's also got a brand new book that he's working on. He's authored a couple of different books including Think About That For a Minute, the Volume 1 and volume 2, get lit, stay lit, spread it, and reckless love revolution. So it's got a brand new book that we're gonna be talking about as well that he's just finishing up, gonna be sending out into the world here very soon. But the Above and beyond that, he and his wife, Lindsay, have 5 children, and 3 of which are daughters. So we're gonna be talking about his own journey the As a father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:23]:
Kelly Kaye, thanks so much for being here today.

Kelly K [00:02:25]:
Man, thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute honor.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:28]:
It is my pleasure having you here today. And one of the things that I love Dove. Doing. 1st and foremost, I wanna turn the clock back in time. You've got 5 kids, but we're gonna focus on those 3 daughters that you have. The Think back. We're gonna turn the clock back in time. What was the first reaction that you had when you found out that you were going to be a father to a daughter?

Kelly K [00:02:48]:
So first, let me explain. My oldest 2 daughters are actually my stepdaughters. So my oldest daughter is 23. Her name is Brennan, Dog. And then my middle daughter, she's 19. Her name is Avery. And then I have an, 2 year old daughter named Jet. Now I gotta tell you this, though.

Kelly K [00:03:04]:
Dog. I remember my my wife when we were dating, you know, she asked me, does it bother you that I have 3 kids? And in the moment, it was without hesitation the that I was able to say not at all. It didn't bother me at all because I had the most amazing stepmom in my life that you could ever I'm telling you, she was she raised me since I was 2 years old. Never treated me like I wasn't her child. The always included me. I never felt that she was not my mom. Right? And so I just kinda knew that god gave me her for a reason. And when I started dating somebody seriously that had children, it made sense to me, like, okay, god.

Kelly K [00:03:41]:
You gave me this stepmom because I'm gonna have to repay the What she gave to me to these other children, I didn't think I was gonna have to do it times 3, but god's got a sense of humor like that. So, honestly, when I found out I was gonna be a dad, it's Dog. Different than most people because, I'd already met these kids. That brings up another issue, though, is that Brennan, when I started dating my wife, Docs. She was 7 years old, and she thought that I was the enemy. She thought that her relationship with her mom and dad the Ended because of me, which that was not the case at all. They've, you know, long been split up before we started dating. But I had to make a choice to say, yes.

Kelly K [00:04:19]:
I I still wanna do this with her even though she was Making life pretty miserable for all of us for a short amount of time, but I just always knew. Haley, god gave you an amazing stepmom, and it's gonna be your job Docs. To pay that back. So to answer your question, what did I think? I just kinda knew. That's what god wants me to do. He wants me to be a father, and he wants Daughters and to speak their worth and value into them. And it doesn't matter if they have my blood or DNA or not. Dog.

Kelly K [00:04:47]:
That's what's amazing about God's family is that he picks and chooses. He puts you together for a purpose, on purpose. And so, to be honest with you, I was very Doug. And happy about the task at hand.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:57]:
So one of the things that you had talked about was that Brennan and you had the build that relationship because she saw you as that enemy. And there are other dads out there that are stepping into relationships or they're stepping into the That rule of being a step parent, maybe a little bit scared about that as well because of stepping into that, not knowing what to expect. Doc. Talk to me about what you had to do with Brennan to be able to heal that relationship, to build that relationship, to be able to get to a point the Where she didn't see you as that enemy, but saw you as a father.

Kelly K [00:05:36]:
Absolutely. Domino's. You know, here's the thing. Because I I get it. It it can be intimidating when you come into a relationship and there's already kids there, and you're not the father. Man, I get it. Dom. The first thing that you have to remember and the first thing that I tried to keep on the front of my mind is that I chose them.

Kelly K [00:05:52]:
They didn't choose me. So a lot of times, we can get into these relationships Dom. Because we love the mom, we love the woman, and then the kids don't really reciprocate that. Well, they didn't choose this, so you need to remember that. So there needs to be a Doubt. Ton of love, a ton of mercy, and a ton of grace for those children because this is brand new to them too, and they didn't do anything wrong to deserve this. They didn't pick you, the So you need to come in with as much grace as you can. So, you know, I let her be herself.

Kelly K [00:06:18]:
I let her air her frustration. I let her say and do what she needs to do. I mean, within reason. I'm still gonna be the father, and I'm still gonna keep things in line. But at the same time, I gave her space, Docs. And I let her talk about it. I let her tell me how she felt because the truth is I knew because of the relationship I've had with my stepmom that there's gonna come a time in the future Doc. Where she realizes who the dad is.

Kelly K [00:06:41]:
Yeah. I may not be the biological father, but over the next 20 years or so, Doc. She's gonna see me at every basketball game. She's gonna see me every single day. I'm gonna be the one paying for her supplies for school. I'm gonna be the one taking care of what and and there's gonna come a day where it's gonna Dog. And she's gonna say, oh my gosh. I missed it.

Kelly K [00:06:59]:
I didn't understand then, but I understand now. And it was when that day came for me, it was so amazing. Dog. And what's really cool now is that Brennan and I are best friends. We are the closest out of all my kids, she and I. Matter of fact, just a couple nights ago, we went to dad daughter date. I took her the dinner. We went shopping.

Kelly K [00:07:15]:
We went to a movie, and that's just something we love to do together. We have an extremely close and tight relationship now, but Dog. The only reason that we are able to have that is because I allowed her a ton a ton of mercy and grace at the beginning because I knew She didn't choose this. I'm choosing this, and I need to let her develop and come into this on her own. If we come in and try to make them feel awful and tell them how horrible they are for being that way, They don't understand that, and all you're gonna do is divide your family even more, and you're gonna put gaps and drive wedges Dog. Between everyone. So, really, it's just you've got to love them on their level because they're not able to love you at your level yet, and it's just that understanding that's really gonna help bridge that gap.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:56]:
The I really appreciate you sharing that. Now I talked to a lot of dads that have daughters. One of the things that I hear from a lot of dads is a fear. The And in the fear for you might have been a little bit different because you're stepping into being a stepdad and dad to a existing family. But the A lot of dads say that there's specifically some fear to raising daughters specifically. What would you say has been your biggest fear In raising daughters.

Kelly K [00:08:24]:
Oh, man. You know, I think my biggest fear is sending them out in the world with a feeling of being undervalued. Doc. Especially when you you come in as a step parent, they already have this sense of reject rejection. They're already gonna be carrying that around that Dog. My dad, for whatever reason, he left. And I get it, you know, from being from a divorced family as well as I carried around that weight Dog. Forever of what did I do? Why didn't you want me? How come you didn't love me when that's not really the case? So my fear was coming in to this.

Kelly K [00:08:54]:
Dog. They have this feeling of rejection from their own father. Whether it's validated or not, they're still gonna carry it. I didn't want them to leave the house Dog. At 18, 19, 20 years old still carrying that, that was probably my biggest fear is that I want them to make sure that they know who they are, who god says about them, and that they are worth so much that they don't have to just go give themselves to the 1st person that that wants them because they don't feel any value. That's the last thing I want. Was another daughter that's a statistic the of teenage pregnancy or or just somebody that that just allows themselves to be used. That breaks my heart to see girls and women like that, and that's what I didn't want to put out into the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:31]:
The Now one of the things that is always interesting for me because as I said, I've got 2 daughters myself. The You've got 5 kids, and every parent of multiple kids has to be very intentional Dog. About what they're doing to build those relationships because every child is completely different, and the You have to understand what those differences are. So talk to me about what did you have to do to build those the Relationships uniquely with every child to be able to be the dad that you wanted to be.

Kelly K [00:10:07]:
For sure. Well, I mean, again, the Grace, man. If I gotta come back to 1 word over and over, it's gonna be grace. It's understanding each child is different just like you said. They're not all gonna receive love the same. They're not all gonna receive no discipline the same. So it's really spending time getting adjusted to each child, learning their personality, what they enjoy. So what I would do is, you know, with with Brennan, you Dog.

Kelly K [00:10:28]:
Know, she loves to go to movies, so something I would do special is just make sure I would take time out to to take her to a movie, to take her to dinner. That's what she really enjoys. My son, Chase, Dog. Also my stepson, which I'm referring to them as step kids to you. I've never referred to them as step kids in front of their face or to them not one single time. That's another thing. If the coming into a relationship with kids, do all you can to make them feel like like they are yours. Whether they're calling you dad or not, you refer to them as your kids.

Kelly K [00:10:56]:
I'm telling you that does something their self esteem. But so just when I was getting to know them, I knew that's what she liked. Chase, on the other hand, he doesn't like to go do movies and stuff like that. Dog. Would have to find other things that he enjoyed. Or if if Avery likes to get gifts, you know, I'll buy her something and bring it to her. It's really just understanding each child is different, what is their love language, and then try to communicate with them on that level. That is gonna be so big.

Kelly K [00:11:20]:
What we can do, though, as adults and as parents is that the We want to love and speak to them the way that we want to be loved and spoken to. And we don't realize sometimes that that can actually be very damaging if their the Love language is quality time, and they wanna spend time with you, but yours is gifts, and you just show up with gifts all the time. Man, that's great for you. You feel like you're really knocking out of the park, but really all they wanted was Doc. Go to a movie or go to the park or just spend some time. And now that I feel neglected or less valuable to you because you're not the time with them when, really, in your mind, you went above and beyond. Right? You love to buy gifts, so you're showing them love. But it's not about what you want.

Kelly K [00:11:57]:
Dog. What they need. So it's really spending time getting to know them. I mean, our our generation has this horrible problem of just handing kids a phone or an iPad and tell them to go away. The Don't bother me. Go be on this device. We don't even know our kids. We wouldn't know how to parent them or love them or correct them properly because we don't even know who they are.

Kelly K [00:12:14]:
The We need to actually spend time getting to know them, and your kids are awesome people. They're amazing. Spend time with them. You will be the with the things that they say, the things that they know, the things that they're picking up on, and it gives you so much insight into their lives and into how Don. To be the correct parent for them, we just ignore that so many times, and then we wonder why we can't relate to our own kids. And, really, for a lot of us, it's our own fault at times.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:37]:
The Definitely so true, and it makes me think back to my own kids and and trying to better understand who they are. And I've only got 2. So the Being able to have 5 at at very different ages is definitely a challenge. Now talk to me about about that because the The way that you have to interact, the way that you have to father your 2 year old is gonna be very different than the Your interactions with Brennan. And so having the that very diverse age range of kids and wide age range of kids, the How do you see yourself fathering in a different way, parenting in a different way, and how do you maintain that?

Kelly K [00:13:15]:
That's a good question. You know, we were pretty intentional About letting the 3 older kids get a little older before my wife and I had children together only because I had this fear the If I have another child, I don't want to love my biological children more than the other 3. Yeah. I mean, there's there's a love there that that it it just it is what it is. You're gonna love your own child different than your stepchildren. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just that the eternal nature, you you know? But we can't let that be seen to those other children. We I don't want them to feel that way.

Kelly K [00:13:51]:
So the We were intentional about letting them get a little bit older first before we even tried just because I didn't want that. So that was part of it. So by the time that we had the Jackson Jett. The other 3 were a little a bit older. They understood. We were pretty established with our relationship, so it was okay. Yeah. It it's been a big difference the Raising an 8 and a 2 year old now versus a 23 year old, 19, and an 18 year old.

Kelly K [00:14:15]:
And, really, it's it's the Trying to keep it in perspective. Just because I've changed, I can't treat these 2 too much differently because I don't wanna paint some picture Docs. Sure. It's my older kids that I love them less or differently. So it's it's really a a juggling act of just trying to be consistent. However, if you will train your kids up the In in the way that that God tells us to and you follow the bible, it's all gonna be pretty much the same. It's gonna look pretty much Docs. Yes.

Kelly K [00:14:40]:
You're gonna grow and you're gonna change and you're gonna do things differently. But if we're consistent in just honoring god with his word, You should see some consistency in the way that we raise our children as well. Right? We're still installing godly principles into them. We're still speaking value into them. Dog. We're still letting them know who god has called them to be. So you have this element of it all looking the same even though is it the same? No. Not at all.

Kelly K [00:15:05]:
I've changed. You know, when I was in my twenties parenting, it looks a lot different than me in my forties parenting. So it's really just trying to find that consistent thread and make Docs. Sure that all of your kids and your entire family sees what you're doing. That way, they have some grace for you too, understanding that, hey. You're growing. You're changing. And I I'm just very open with my kids.

Kelly K [00:15:23]:
There's nothing I won't talk about. And I tell them, yeah. I did this with you. I'm sorry I did it that way. I was young and dumb. I'm doing it this way now. I wish I would the done that with you, and they they have grace for you. I'm telling you, if you will be open and honest with your kids about any obviously, there's some things you don't wanna Dog.

Kelly K [00:15:38]:
Talk to your kids about. But I'm just saying, on the whole, talk to them like they're real people, not somebody below you or beneath you. Give them the respect that you want given to you. Doc. And, man, they will have grace for you when it comes to parenting because they see how much you love them and that you're really pouring into them. And so many parents don't do that Doug. Today, and it's just a cultural thing that we just kinda push our kids to the side. And, man, it breaks my heart because your kids are amazing people.

Kelly K [00:16:03]:
I've said it before, but I'll keep saying it again. Your kids are awesome.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:06]:
The So with 3 daughters, it's not always going to be easy. You talked about one aspect of your experience in being a father to a daughter that that was not the easiest the When you first were in the lives of your first 3 kids, talk to me about or you with raising daughters, what's been the hardest part the Being a father to a daughter.

Kelly K [00:16:26]:
You know, the the hardest part, it's just gonna keep coming back to that value. Now was it the hardest part because I feared it Dog. And because I kept thinking about it and fearing it, that that's what I had to deal with, or is that just what all girls go through? I don't know. But the hardest part has been in the that value into them. I watched Brennan go through high school, date some real, quote, unquote, winners the That just really broke my heart that she was with them, and I saw the way these boys are treating her. And I just had to keep trying to tell her, Brennan, you're worth more than this. This is who you are. And I kept trying to show her in the word of god.

Kelly K [00:16:58]:
Dog. This is who god says you are, and you're valuable, and you're worth more than this. It's worth stating yourself for somebody, and and it took man, let me just give some hope to some of you. The If you are watching your daughters make these bad mistakes, there is hope. There is hope. Keep speaking truth into them. Listen. It's not your job to change anybody.

Kelly K [00:17:16]:
Only Jesus can. Dog. It's not your job to save anybody. Only Jesus can. Your job is to keep speaking the truth and showing them who Jesus is in their life. And that's what I kept doing with Brennan through each boy. Doc. Every time she would come to me crying about some guy that cheated on her or did her wrong, I just kept instilling that value of who god says the She is.

Kelly K [00:17:33]:
And I'm so happy to tell you that 23 years old, she'll be 24 next week. She is engaged to the most amazing, godly man that we are so the that he is about to join our family. We are thrilled to have him a part of our family, but we had to watch her go through terrible relationship after terrible relationship until Docs. She finally figured out her value and her worth, but she did figure it out. So, yes, that was hard. Yes, it was Dog. Scary. But, man, it's so good to know that the bible is true to its word, and that when you train up a child in the way of the lord when they're older, they will not depart from it.

Kelly K [00:18:06]:
Dog. And to see her marrying a godly man means so much to me, and I'm so excited and so happy for her. But it did go through struggles of us having to take her bedroom door off Dom. For a year, having some hard conversations and and groundings and dealing with broken hearts and but, man, keep speaking the value. Even if they don't Docs. See it. Keep going till you're blue in the face because eventually, it's gonna quicken them. They're gonna remember your words.

Kelly K [00:18:29]:
They're gonna remember what you said. And, man, to see that it it worked out and it the Panned out the way God said it would is just man, it's beautiful to me. But that's the hardest part is just getting them to understand their value. There's something about Docs. Being girls and women and guys too, but I think women deal with it more of just understanding their their own worth and really who they are and who god made them to be. That's just the way the devil really attacks women, and it's our job as men of God, especially godly fathers and husbands, is to keep instilling that value not only into our daughters, but into our wives Dogs as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:00]:
So I mentioned that you are a pastor, you are a staff pastor at Limitless 405 Church in Oklahoma. The And one of the things that you have really done to connect not only with your own parishioners, but the Even broader to a much broader audience is bring forth scripture, bring forth the bible, bring forth the religion and spirituality to social media, and you have attacked that on many different platforms, but specifically the On TikTok. And I guess going through becoming a pastor yourself, I don't know if you would have ever thought That this is where you would end up. Maybe you did. But talk to me about being a pastor and being able to the Share what you're sharing now to a I'm gonna say a young demographic because there's not a ton of people our age the that are on TikTok. There's some, but a much larger of the audience is very young. And but you're relating to them, and you're bringing a message that the Has to be relatable because of the numbers that you're seeing. So talk to me about that and maybe what you had to do to be able to to the change the way that you thought about preaching, about being a pastor, to be able to bring this to a broader audience like that.

Kelly K [00:20:24]:
You know, first, Docs. I'll just be honest with you. I did not want to get on TikTok. I don't even like first off, I just thought it was people dancing. Alright? And I was like, oh, well, I don't wanna I can't even dance anyway. Why do I need a TikTok? Duck. But my wife for years was like, Kelly, you need to get on TikTok. And, god started speaking to me, and I just knew he wanted me to get on TikTok.

Kelly K [00:20:41]:
So when god starts telling you, the You can ignore your wife, but you can't ignore God. Right? So, eventually, I said, alright. So, actually, it was a year ago. It was last December when I got on TikTok. Here's the deal, though. The I see social media as the mission field, and I think everybody should. You know, we we send people overseas, and we raise all this money for missions, and we're sending people to go preach. The But understand, the Internet, your phone is a mission field in itself.

Kelly K [00:21:06]:
You can reach people from all over the world right there on your phone. The The truth is people are holding their phones, scrolling all day long watching videos and content. It's just how it is. And you can have people that get mad saying, oh, this the The world isn't what it used to be, and I wish these kids weren't doing you can get mad all day long, but it's not gonna change anything. You can get mad or you can do something about it. And the said, you know what? I'm gonna do something about it. I see this as a mission field. If everybody's sitting there watching videos and scrolling, I'm just gonna put something in front of them that's worth watching.

Kelly K [00:21:34]:
So here's the deal. How do you keep yeah. Because I'm I'm old. I get it. Fair enough. How do you get a younger audience to engage? I mean, I'm getting between 23,000,000 views a week on Domino's. The only way that's possible is, for 1, you need to understand that this generation, they're looking for real, and they want real.

Kelly K [00:21:52]:
They recognize real. So if you get on there trying to be fake, trying to be somebody that you're not, they're gonna notice it right away. Nobody's gonna watch your content. Dog. So for 1, I've never tried to pretend to be something that I'm not. 2, I get on there, and I just answer questions that people have that I think Pastors aren't really talking about. You know, I've done videos on, you know, why do we go to church, how do we know Dog. This is the right religion.

Kelly K [00:22:16]:
What does god say about divorce? Do dogs go to heaven? I mean, I've touched on every single topic that you can think of Dog. Because that's what real people wanna know. They have real questions, especially people that are afraid to go to church because they feel judged. They have all these questions, and they don't know where to go for these answers. Dog. So I'm just giving them biblical truth in a way that they can understand because I just speak like it's me and you. And I never the Understood. When I was graduating seminary, I had classmates that would go and preach these big sermons using all this the Greek and Hebrew and these big words.

Kelly K [00:22:50]:
Like, they were trying to flex on everybody, and I never understood that, like like showing off their knowledge. Dog. I thought that we went to seminary so that we could understand complex subjects and then make them easy for others to understand. I thought that was the point. Dog. So what I do is I try to take these tough subjects that the Bible talks about, and then I try to find a way that anybody at any age, Dog. Any race, any level can connect to, can relate to, because that's what we're supposed to be, all things to all people. Right? We're not supposed to be a stumbling block.

Kelly K [00:23:20]:
We're I'm not if I just got on TikTok the started using all my Greek and Hebrew, trying to make these flashy messages. No one's gonna watch them. But the fact that I look like everybody else, I sound like everybody else, And I'm giving you what you want to know in a way that you can understand it. People connect with that, and they keep watching. You know, I I do scriptures that everyone have read a 1000000 times,

Kelly K [00:23:41]:
I'm just giving a fresh perspective on it because I'm making it fit today's society. I'm not changing the word of god. How did Jesus teach? He told stories. Docs. He used things that people understood from their day and age, and that's the exact same thing that I'm doing. And it's just working. Now I gotta give God all the credit the Who am I? Or I'm just some crazy looking dude on the Internet. God is doing all the work.

Kelly K [00:24:02]:
I'm just trying to be obedient. So that's how I got started and how I've been doing this thing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:07]:
So I also talked about the fact that you also have taken those messages and you've become an author as well. And you've got a brand new book that is gonna be coming out very Docs soon called Think About That for a Minute, volume 2, 40 day 40 day devotional for a fresh perspective. Talk to me about the Not only this book, but talk to me about what led you into wanting to move into writing. I've been an author before. Door. I've written I've written a book myself. It's not easy.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:39]:
It it takes a lot of time, a lot of patience, a lot of effort. The So was that calling that made you say, I need to bring these messages out to the world, and what is now bringing you Doc. To writing this new book to help people in a different way.

Kelly K [00:24:54]:
I never thought I was gonna be an author. I never wanted to be an author. Docs. I barely graduated 8th grade English class, man. But it was in 2016 when I released my first book, Reckless Love Revolution, and the only reason I wrote it is the god laid it so heavy on my heart to write that book that I didn't know what else to do. So I wrote that book, put it out. It did alright. It sold the Between 510,000 copies, something like that.

Kelly K [00:25:16]:
I mean, that's over a 5 years span. And then after I wrote reckless love, I wrote get lit, say lit, Docs. Which is about how to get on fire for Jesus and not burn out. I wrote that one because as I I'm a full time traveling evangelist. I'm the associate pastor in our church, but Dog. 3 weeks out of the month, I travel and preach to other churches. And what I noticed around the country, everywhere I went, is I was seeing burnt out Christians Dog. Everywhere I went, and it was breaking my heart.

Kelly K [00:25:41]:
So I wrote this book about getting on fire and staying on fire because the truth is we can live on fire 247. We don't have to burn out. So Dog. I write those 2 books. They did okay. Like I said, a few 1,000 copies. Nothing crazy. Then I start praying, alright, god.

Kelly K [00:25:56]:
What Dog. Do you want me to write next? And I really felt like God was saying, Kelly, the words of Kelly Kaye aren't gonna change anybody's life. The It's my word that changes people's life, so feed my sheep. And I said, okay. And then I remembered Psalms 1 1 through 3 that Docs. Says that if we meditate on God's word day and night, we will prosper in all seasons of our lives. Here's the problem. Most Christians aren't prospering.

Kelly K [00:26:18]:
Why? Because they're not spending time in the word. The truth is we live in the most biblically illiterate generation of all time. People do not know what the Bible says because Noah. Nobody's reading it for themselves. So I really felt like God was calling me to feed the sheep, meaning give them his word. So I said, alright. I'll write this 40 day devotional. Now I was finishing it up right at the time that God called me to get on TikTok.

Kelly K [00:26:40]:
So I've been on TikTok for about 3 months. I had about 50,000 followers. The I released that book. Now my other 2 books, like I said, did about 5 to 10000 copies each, something like that over, you know, span of 5 years. Dog. I was expecting this one to do the same. But as the TikTok following kept growing, at the end of every video, I would just say, hey. If you like this message, check out my new book.

Kelly K [00:27:00]:
It's a 40 day devotional. The That book started selling like crazy. Like, it started selling around 200 copies a day simply because of the views on TikTok. Doc. And I knew when I wrote that, I called it volume 1 because I just had a feeling god wanted me to write more of those, and now I totally see why. The response from that the 1st devotional. And I I call it think about that for a minute based on Psalms 1 because all you're doing is meditating on god's word. That means thinking about it.

Kelly K [00:27:26]:
That's all it is. Dog. I'm giving you a scripture each day to think about and meditate on so you get the word in you. The response from that book has been insane. People saying they love the fresh the perspectives and and the way that I break down scripture and and tell stories. So naturally, writing another one was just the The next thing to happen. So it's completely finished. It's just going through the editing and the finalization period right now, volume 2.

Kelly K [00:27:51]:
Dog. And I think we've already told probably close to 500 preorders for that book. So I I cannot wait to see what God is gonna do with it. But, man, just seeing people every day write Docs. That they've given their life to Jesus, so they got on fire for Jesus again or rededicated their lives simply because they got in that book and it the It just helped them with their walk with God. Man, that's what it should be anyway. You don't need my book. All I did was give you a scripture, and I helped you meditate on it daily.

Kelly K [00:28:17]:
All I did was help you fulfill the Bill, the promise God gave to you that if you will get into his word and meditate on it day night, you'll prosper in every season of your life. It's nothing that I did. The I just gave you the word and made it simple. I'm telling you. It blesses me that this book has done so good. And what even blesses me more than anything was that Docs. It wasn't anything that I did. I just gave them God's word.

Kelly K [00:28:38]:
You know, I wrote 2 books trying to knock it out of the park myself, and they were wildly mediocre. And then here, I just Give god's word, and it's a huge hit. And it's like, god, you're so good. You you know exactly what people need. They don't need me. They need you, the that's what I give them. So that's why I'm so pumped about this new book about to come out because it's just more of what already worked, more of God's word.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:59]:
So as you think about the future, what's next?

Kelly K [00:29:02]:
Dog. For me, all I wanna do is I wanna keep traveling, and I wanna keep preaching. I wanna keep writing I I just want to get Jesus in front of as many the people as I can. It just there's a passion. It just burns inside of me. I want to see people get set free. I want people to understand the freedom that Jesus paid for on the cross and that eternity doesn't start in heaven. It starts here on earth, and you can have an abundant life here.

Kelly K [00:29:28]:
We don't have to wait till we die to have the blessings that god's got for us. I want people to step in to the amazing freedom and just the relationship Docs. They can have with Jesus. And, I'm not slowing down. So, I mean, my calendar is already filling up for next year. I'm gonna keep making videos every single day. I'm gonna keep writing books. Dog.

Kelly K [00:29:46]:
I have plans to go to all 5 regions of Africa this next year, to go to Tokyo, to go to Australia. Man, I'm just gonna put Jesus in front of as many people as I can. That's what's next Me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:55]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5 where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Kelly K [00:30:02]:
Let's go.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:02]:
In one word, the What is fatherhood? Love. When was a time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Kelly K [00:30:10]:
The day that the Britton and I were driving in the truck, and she said, I finally see that you've been my dad all along. And that was just Dog. My heart slowed up. It was just the greatest moment remembering all the pain and trials we went through while she was growing up to see that doc. We finally had the relationship that I'd wanted since day 1. That was it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:30]:
Now if I was to have your kids here, you know, I was talking to them, how would they describe you as a dad?

Kelly K [00:30:36]:
They would say that I the think I'm funny. He thinks he's funny. That's what they would say. And they think I am too. They just won't let you know that. But I'm I'm hilarious. I got the best dad jokes. Docs.

Kelly K [00:30:45]:
Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:45]:
Are any dad jokes good?

Kelly K [00:30:47]:
Every single one of them, I tell it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:50]:
Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Kelly K [00:30:52]:
My stepmom. Knowles. She passed away a couple years ago at 55, but I still think about her every single day when it comes to being a parent. She showed me what it's like Dog. To love. No matter what, she showed me what it looks like to be a Jesus follower. She showed me what it looks like to love like Jesus. She's been my biggest inspiration as a parent for sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:11]:
The Now you've talked about a lot of different things today, things that you've learned along the way, things that have helped you to be a better dad, and you've given a lot of piece of advice. As we finish up today, what's 1 piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Kelly K [00:31:23]:
Give grace, give mercy, and instill value. If if you will do those things right there, if you will give your kids grace, show them mercy, and you will teach them who they are, the I'm telling you when they grow up and I've I've got kids that are 2, and I've got kids that are 24, so I've seen it play out. If you will do that, you will have some godly the Adults, godly kids that grow into amazing godly adults. And what you want is for your kids to do the same thing with their kids and sell value, Doc. Show mercy and give grace and just keep that cycle going. That way, your kids aren't gonna have to break off horrible generational curses that you pass down. The We get to choose what we pass on to our kids. Be intentional about it when they're little so you're not having to fix it later when they're adults.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:07]:
Now, Kelly Kaye, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here for the your story. If people wanna find out more about you, where should they go?

Kelly K [00:32:14]:
You can go to kellyk ministries.com. You can get my books there. You can find all my socials there. Honestly, you can Google Kelly Kaye Ministries or Kelly Kaye Preacher, and you will find more than you care to find about me. I promise you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:28]:
Well, Kelly Kaye, I just wanna say thank you again for your time, your passion, and for sharing your own journey as a father today.

Kelly K [00:32:35]:
It's an honor. Thank you for Daughters. Having me. I really enjoyed our time together and hope we get to do it again.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:39]:
If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information the that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step road maps, the and more. You will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together .org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:26]:
Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters the And be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:38]:
We're all in the same boat, the and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. The Dogs. Presents. Bring your a game because those kids are growing fast. The time the just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, Domino's. Be the best dad you can be.

Fatherhood is a unique journey that provides an opportunity to shape the lives of our daughters. In a recent episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, JP DeGance, the president of Communio, shared valuable insights on fatherhood, relationships, loneliness, and the importance of community in raising daughters to be strong and independent women.

Impactful Moments of Fatherhood

In the podcast, DeGance shared his experience as a father to eight children, highlighting the significant impact of fatherhood on his life. He emphasized how his relationship with his daughters has shaped his perspective on parenting. He touched upon the realization of a different connection and relationship with his daughters compared to his sons.

Understanding the Unique Bonds

DeGance discussed the importance of forming unique relationships with each of his children despite their different personalities and age ranges. He highlighted the significance of spending quality time with each child individually and fostering connections that are tailored to their individual needs and interests. This approach emphasizes the importance of understanding and supporting each child in a personalized manner.

Challenges of Raising Daughters

The discussion delved into the challenges of raising daughters in the modern world, particularly in terms of relationships, healthy partnerships, and the impact of societal changes on their well-being. DeGance shed light on the implications of the current cultural trends on daughters' perceptions of relationships and the importance of guiding them to discern healthy and meaningful connections.

Insights on Loneliness and Community

DeGance's organization, Communio, has conducted extensive research on loneliness, uncovering concerning trends in societal well-being. The study revealed alarming insights about the epidemic of loneliness and its impact across different demographic groups. Particularly, the podcast emphasized the importance of community and mentorship among men, highlighting the profound impact of having connections outside the family unit to combat loneliness and reinforce purpose in life.

Cultivating Meaningful Relationships

One of the key takeaways from DeGance's insights was the emphasis on cultivating healthy, purpose-driven relationships within the family and the broader community. He stressed the significance of modeling a parent-centered home rather than a child-centered one, highlighting the role of the marriage relationship as the foundation for trust and social trust in children.

Guiding Fathers to Be Present

DeGance shared invaluable advice for fathers, encouraging them to live life with their children and actively engage in their lives. This guidance underscored the importance of being present and actively involved in children's lives, especially during their formative years.

In conclusion, JP DeGance's insights provide a comprehensive understanding of the impact of fatherhood, relationships, and community in raising strong daughters. His perspectives on building unique connections with each child, navigating the challenges of parenting, and the significance of community involvement offer valuable lessons for fathers striving to raise empowered and resilient daughters.

As fathers, our role in shaping the lives of our daughters extends beyond mere presence. It encompasses creating a supportive and purpose-driven environment, fostering meaningful connections, and nurturing strong, independent women. Through prioritizing father-daughter relationships, active involvement, and community engagement, we can contribute to the holistic development of our daughters and empower them to navigate the complexities of the modern world with confidence and resilience.

By embracing the insights shared by JP DeGance, fathers worldwide can deepen their understanding of their pivotal role in raising strong, empowered daughters and actively contribute to their daughters' journey toward a fulfilling and purposeful life.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad who wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, an interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts but, more importantly, with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]:

Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Docs. Really excited to be back with you again this week. Every week, I love sitting down with you and being able to talk to you about this journey that we're all on called fatherhood. And it is a unique journey in many ways, but it doesn't have to be. There are so many ways in which we can learn and grow from the offered from the people that are around us, from other fathers, and this show is all about connecting you with other people's experiences to be able to help you to be the father that you wanna be and to help you to raise those strong independent women the that you have in your homes. Every week, I love bringing you different guests, different dads, and different other individuals with resources that can help you to do just that. And this week, we got another great guest with us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:12]:

JP DeGance is with us today, and JP is the president of Communio. He is also the founder and president. I should say, let me step back. JP DeGance is with us today, and JP is the president and founder of Communio. And we're gonna talk more about the organization and some of the things that they've been finding inside, like, a recent study that just came out about loneliness. And we're also gonna be talking about the fact that he's a father of 8. And I was talking to him before we started today and said that it just kinda blows my mind because I think 2 is enough for me, but 8 is a whole new game. So I'm excited to have him on. JP, thanks so much for being here.

JP DeGance [00:01:52]:

Hey, Christopher. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here with you. Thank you so much.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:57]:

It is my pleasure having you here today. I love that we're able to talk about fatherhood and Communio. I guess, 1st and foremost, I wanna turn the clock back in time. I love being able to have this power when when I talk to people and being able to turn the clock back. And I know you've got 8 kids. I'd like to go back to that 1st moment. That first moment that you found out that you were going to be a father to a daughter, what was going through your head?

JP DeGance [00:02:20]:

You know, for us, it was number 3. And I'll tell you. It was funny. I told my wife brings this up to me all the time. She says, I see, oh, I'm gonna treat, you know, my kids the same. I'm gonna, you know, my son's daughter's gonna be the same. And then, I had my daughter, and I realized, we have a different connection, a different relationship. And I love my girls.

JP DeGance [00:02:42]:

I've I've we're we're all tied up. Chris for four boys and four girls. It's about as evenly distributed as you can. But being able to bond with my daughters and having daughters, I'm confident, makes me a better a better man. It causes me to want to be more in comparison to my sons, who I'll rough up. I relate a bit differently to my daughters, and it's been beautiful, not great. And my wife has called me out on it quite a number of times that you don't really treat them the same. Later on, I got a quote from my father That I love. He's like, you treat all of your children equally.

JP DeGance [00:03:18]:

You don't treat them the same. And I think that there's a lot of a lot of wisdom in that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:23]:

I love that. Now a lot of dads that I talk to I talked to a lot of dads over the years, and a lot of dads say to me that having that daughter in their life. Is not only an amazing thing, but it also brings some fear with it as well. And I guess for you, As you look at the fact that you have eight kids four girls and four boys, what has been your biggest fear in raising daughters?

JP DeGance [00:03:47]:

Nobles. Because of my work, and you mentioned some research that we've been doing, I run an org and a ministry that really seeks to equip churches to champion and encourage healthy relationships, marriage, fatherhood, and healthy fatherhood. And as I've gotten into the data, you can't help but understand That there is a retreat from marriage that's occurring that's gonna affect our sons and daughters, and that means something, especially for our daughters and how they grow and Dom. And and how they discern healthy relationships. I think the culture has cheapened relationships and meaningful relationships. And so coming alongside my daughters to help form them is so that they can know what the healthy guy looks like and how to avoid problematic relationships and toxic relationships, and then form friend groups, right? That reinforces that. Right? My mom used to say, you know, you are. I'm sure I'm not the only one whose mom said this. Right? You are who your friends are, who you associate with.

JP DeGance [00:04:51]:

You often reflect in terms of your personality and who you are. So those are just some of those things that, you know, recognizing. You know, the reality is is even at Conley, and you think about college, no, today's college is now 60% women, 40% men, and in the last, most recent most recent class. And what that actually mathematically means as a dad is it's gonna be actually harder mathematically for our daughters to find a guy who is of historically speaking woman marries someone of the same academic attainment level. And that means, if her daughters pursue college, it'll become harder to identify someone just because it just becomes a math problem. These are just some of the things I think about.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:30]:

Now with eight kids, I know that even with twoo kids, each child is very different. I'm sure that with eight kids, you've got many different personalities and many different perspectives. And as you father 8 children, you have to build those unique relationships with each one of those kids in different ways. How do you do that, and how do you balance being able to build those unique relationships with each of your children, especially based on the age range that we're talking about?

JP DeGance [00:06:04]:

We spend a lot of time together, a lot of our social time as a family. And the kids enjoy being around each other. These kids we, we fight. The kids fight. Right? The kids argue, and that's all normal. But I will say our 18-year-old, our 17-year-old, and our 15-year-old are strange in that they don't complain when it's family time and we're Doing something social and fun. That said, it's it you're absolutely right. It's critical to find that time where you can spend time together individually with dog.

JP DeGance [00:06:34]:

A child. So I do a number of things. I travel for work, not infrequently, and so I try to bring one of my kids with me on a work trip Periodically so that there it's just with dad. If I'm going out, I have to go to Montana periodically, and that's a fun place to go and drive around and see the natural wonder of that heart of the country, and I'll do that. I've I've had to go on trips to Denver. I'll take one child. And one of the things that we'll do is try to do different types of rites of passage kind of experiences with our with a kid with our children when they hit a certain age, particularly, like, right before puberty, you know, they go on a trip. With me.

JP DeGance [00:07:10]:

It's a son who goes with me, and the daughter goes with mom. And we make a trip away, and we do a bit of the bird and the bees, conversations and, you know, how life is gonna be changing and really try to lay the groundwork there. Then when they graduate high school, we've done this once Now. We'll be doing it again this summer. We've taken our oldest. We've just selected that point to be just a trip with an experience that we just do with a high school graduate and celebrate that moment, let them know how important that moment was and their achievement and and and, obviously, in our as a family of 8, really appreciate that time when it's just me and them Or me and my wife and my child. And so those are some of the ways. And then you, you know, every child, you're absolutely right.

JP DeGance [00:07:57]:

Every child is different. Right? They need different things. Okay. I've grown to notice that my sons and I are studying this area; they want to know If they're competent, they wanna know. If I think that they're competent, they're they're they're effective. They can do they can do things. And so frequently, that's part of how I reinforce the My sons and my daughters so frequently wanna know if, and they range again from age 4 to age 15. They wanna know if they are actually beautiful. Are they being reinforced? I think they're certainly reinforcing your self-image and, Letting her know that Dad knows that they're they're a beautiful young lady, beautiful inside and out, and that's important in a way.

JP DeGance [00:08:39]:

They react differently, my sons and daughters, on these things, and I've seen that as really important for my daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:45]:

We talked about fears and how raising kids can be smooth sailing. It can also be challenging at times. What's been the hardest part for you In being a father to a daughter?

JP DeGance [00:08:57]:

Yeah. The hardest part of being a father to a daughter. My kids have struggled with dyslexia, sons and daughters. And realized that the traditional school model for us wasn't wasn't working for my daughters. What it wasn't working for my sons. I ended up having a series of conversations with a businessman that I thought very highly of, and he helped me open my eyes to thinking differently about education, particularly educating my daughters. Right? In the end, it led us to decide to alter what we were doing. We ended up Moving into a homeschool model where we could allocate capital for the kind of tutoring they needed and the kind of pace in the areas they needed.

JP DeGance [00:09:40]:

And that's been a really good thing. I think mom is really good at handling things like ways to dress and what have you. And so I don't have to do much of that. My wife is all over the stuff, and the and the girls, That's been a good thing for us, and the girls, I think, have, with some reluctance, taken to mom's guidance on such Dutch Things. Mom dresses well, and so they see that you can dress beautifully elegantly, and you can also dress modestly in those ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:12]:

I mentioned that you were the president and CEO of Communio, and you sort of started to talk a little bit about what Communio is and what it focuses on. Tell me more about Communio, and then we'll talk about some of the research. I wanna hear more about the organization first.

JP DeGance [00:10:28]:

Sure. So we function like as a business to business, a b to b, so to speak, as a business model. So our customers always and everywhere, the local church. Okay. We equip the local church to evangelize through the renewal of healthy relationships, the Marriage, and the family. And a major part of, obviously, that is fatherhood. And so we do that through Coaching churches, training churches, and evidence-based strategies on relationship health. We do help produce No.

JP DeGance [00:10:59]:

A transformation in the mindset of pastors in the church is that investing in the strength of your marriage or your relationships is something everybody does. If you wanna be healthy, happy, and holy, no. And then that's what that's what one ought to do. And a big thing is part of that message is for men. Right? Heavily, on dads. If I love my children, One of the best ways for me to love my children is, whenever it's possible, to love the mother of my children more than my own children because when I do that, it spills over and has lifetime benefits on our children.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:33]:

I mentioned the fact that your organization had been doing some research into loneliness. So talk to me about That and why your organization chose to start doing research on this topic.

JP DeGance [00:11:46]:

I've been startled like many of the Folks who've who've looked into space; we've got shortening lifespans. We are, as a country, when I was a kid. When you were a kid, people talk futurists saying, you know, maybe we're gonna live to a 100 or maybe a 110 in the future. It'll just be normal. No one ever thought 40 or 50 years ago that people would be short, living shorter and shorter lives. And that's that's where we are, particularly men as of recently, but it's also women. And we're heavily divergent from similar countries. So if you look at other countries of high wealth, we are having a sharp decline in our lifespan.

JP DeGance [00:12:20]:

That has a heavy relationship to the loneliness problem. In 2008, the first year in the United States, the surgeon general said that we had an epidemic of loneliness, and it's only increased. And so we work with our client churches to a small number of factors, no And one of those is loneliness, and there's something called the UCLA summary loneliness index. It's a 3 question tool that when you use it, depending on how you answer it, no If you score 6 or higher on it, you fit the public health definition of loneliness, which means your lifespan is basically the difference between dying in your the Mid-seventies to dying in your late fifties or, you know, right at sixty. Okay. And that's how significant it is. And and so.

JP DeGance [00:13:03]:

We wanted to make folks aware of what's going on with it. And, well, one of the things that stuck out sadly is some of the findings were it's not who you think Dog. Is lonely. Right? You would think it would make sense that it's the elderly and it's the widowed are the most likely to be lonely. And the reality is that the loneliest folks in the survey were the never married in their thirties and also the divorced in their thirties. Those were the two loneliest groups. They were lonelier than widows, and there was the loneliest group of widows were widows in their Fifties, which makes sense, and widowers and widows in their fifties, which makes sense. It's premature to have lost a spouse.

JP DeGance [00:13:46]:

That age, or maybe you're a recent empty nester, and so there's a major life change. But even still, someone who's 30, the 4-year-old who's never married, or 33 who's divorced. They're actually lonelier by a significant margin than those folks and Docs. Making sure, you know, when we talk to our client churches, like, this is something you need to be aware of. Right? Like, this is as a pastor, Doc. If you're talking about the importance of forming a heterogeneous community between singles and married, divorced and widowed, the Young and old. That should be a normal part of life in thinking through how to form those kinds of interlocking communities. The folks can have meaningful relationships and have the kind of purpose that flows from meaningful relationships that undo all of the horrible health effects of loneliness.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:34]:

So, a part of the Organization that this podcast is all about is called Fathering Together, and we talk about the importance of building community. And this show is all about raising our kids. I think that things that you just said are things that we need to reinforce with our kids in many different ways. As your organization delves deeper into not only some of the causes and the groups that are being affected to raise the consciousness of society around us, it will be able to start making changes internally. But are there things that your organization may have identified that, as parents, we should be aware of To be able to reinforce with our own kids as they're getting older to help them not lead that lonely life the As they

JP DeGance [00:15:22]:

get older. Yeah. You know, first, it's critically important, and this is gonna sound to some listeners paradoxical. One of the most important things is not to build Not. A child-centered home, but a parent-centered home. And I mean that in the sense of whether there's a marriage in the home or you're parenting with a spouse, Dom. The most important relationship is the spouse. And when that happens, a child can actually feel safe and trust That our ability to form social trust, one of the big things that social scientists have uncovered is that our levels of social trust in America are in rapid decline.

JP DeGance [00:15:55]:

We first learned to trust others based on those most primal relationships with our parents. And then when we see it model the Father to the child, but then when the child sees the dad relating frequently to the spouse. And so what's key is to model a life where, no, you know, it's easy. Right? I've paid kids, but you can do this with two kids. You can revolve your entire life around youth sports, youth activities, academic competitiveness, anything that you want, whatever you want to turn fashion into the idol, I think. The reality is that when it's a child-centered home, You raise people who will become self-centered later. Okay? Because they see themselves, hey. The most important people in my life communicated that I was the most important person in my life.

JP DeGance [00:16:48]:

And then now I'm going out into the world, and I'm the most important person in my life. No. And the paradox of happiness is living for the other. We're wired deeply to live in some in a sacrificial way to not go out of our way for the other. That's what love is. And so I think a key in raising our daughter's dog. They see that we love their mothers and that we model the kinds of healthy friendships that should be in our lives. And then, obviously, that doesn't mean that you don't do your sports, and it doesn't mean that you don't want your child to be competitive and great at what they're doing.

JP DeGance [00:17:25]:

No. But rightly ordered is the key here that these things are held, intention. There's moderation in such things. So sometimes there is a hard decision that needs to be made that as a husband, right, I need it's maybe not the best thing for my marriage that I I don't see my wife For thirteen weekends in a row because we're doing travel sports every weekend. I'd not say that that being in a hyperbolic example. Right? And then if you're you're a single dad, okay, you're an unmarried dad, Then I think that that's important to model a life of moderation. Right? So that a child can see and live a life of moderation where the child is Nuts. Encouraged and supported by that relationship between father and daughter, if I can't trust that my dad's there for me, it spills over into lots of other areas of my life later as I grow up.

JP DeGance [00:18:15]:

And I can't then trust that a future person who pursues me, as a man pursuing your daughter in the future, It's harder for that daughter to trust in the relationship. It's harder for her to trust certain friendships or business in relationships Dog. So much of who we are is formed in our family of origin.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:34]:

Appreciate that. Now, as you think about relationships with other men, In regard to the importance of having bonds with others as well, what is your study found about the importance of having those connections to people outside of your family that Can help you to stave off loneliness?

JP DeGance [00:18:57]:

Yeah. Look. I'm a huge fan. I'm a big believer in mentorship and community Among men. So I have had a friend group of other dads that range in age, that are ranged about a dozen years older than me and Dog. About a dozen years younger than me. And we're actually on a text thread together, and we'll text each other. We'll get together periodically, Socially, mostly, but sometimes we do, what you would consider a Christian small group activity, but it's certainly a mix.

JP DeGance [00:19:27]:

And I have benefited so much from just being pals with dads who have some kids who are Doubt. 10 years further ahead of the journey on me and being able to talk to him. Nothing structured and formal,, you know, being able to Go over for a barbecue and a beer and talk and talk about challenges of fatherhood and the Thinking of being thoughtful about forming our children is just incredibly important and incredibly important within the realm of loneliness. Right? There's so many, so many men. We are Wired, Richard Reeves wrote a book on boys and men. He's actually a progressive scholar but spends a lot of time writing about men. Dog. And it's his argument that I'm I kinda persuaded on that in a lot of ways, masculinity in its social manifestation is no A bit more fragile than femininity, and his argument is that you know, we're wired for purpose.

JP DeGance [00:20:22]:

Humans are wired for purpose. Right? And we derive our sense of purpose most frequently from being a husband and then being a father. Okay? And when we walk through life, and we got those 2 things out of our life, what you're seeing doc Is ex what researchers identified is this epidemic of loneliness because and you've got an explosive growth in opioids and substance abuse, men died, and liver cirrhosis. Doc. All of this is what happened. It's the social manifestation or the psychological manifestation of social phenomena where you no longer have that sense of purpose is now void, no And

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:54]:

it needs to be filled with something.

JP DeGance [00:20:54]:

And frequently, it's found in forms of escape. And our role as a dad Should be for anybody listening; this should be a place where I derive a deep, deep sense of purpose in my life. Ideally, the Best outcomes occur when you're a married dad. But then, if you're not a married dad, then it's how do I find ways to function in a healthy way as frequently as I can as a single dad. And understand this is deeply who you are, Dog. And you've created another person. A daughter shares your DNA, half of your DNA, and her self-image, her mental health, her future decisions on who she couples up with, who her spouse is, her future feelings of loneliness or isolation or the lack thereof, Doc. Wrapped up in her relationship, whether you like it or not with her.

JP DeGance [00:21:47]:

And so that should actually, I don't share that to scare any of the listeners. No, I show that to encourage you and just know you've got a big job. We've got big jobs as dads. We're not replaceable. Nobody else can serve that role as a dad. And so the Latin phrase, be a man. We have to step up and be a man.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:06]:

You sharing that. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood five. We're gonna ask the Five more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

JP DeGance [00:22:14]:

Yeah. Go ahead.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:15]:

In one word, what is fatherhood?

JP DeGance [00:22:17]:

Fun. I don't know. I feel like it's a lot of fun.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:19]:

When did you finally feel like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

JP DeGance [00:22:24]:

I read a book to my teenagers. I read we do a lot of read-aloud books, no, And we've done stuff like Tolkien and Baham. I picked a book called How to Avoid Falling in Love with a Jerk. And I told my kids, and I told my daughter. I told my teenage boys and my teenage daughter that I read to them. I told them, look. It's too late for your mother, but it's not too late for you. And my daughter, at the end of it, okay, this is about as high praise as you can get. From a 14-year-old, she said, Dad, this is the 1st book you read to me that was interesting.

JP DeGance [00:22:51]:

And so I felt like knowing my daughter, that's, like, spiking the football. She's like, this is the greatest thing ever is what what that Dawson. So I felt like that was a major win.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:58]:

I love that. I haven't read that book, but I think I might have to check it out.

JP DeGance [00:23:01]:

It's a great book. Read by my friend John Van App. He's a great scholar And a student of human relationships.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:07]:

Appreciate you sharing that. Now if I were to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

JP DeGance [00:23:12]:

I think they would say I'm the Don Juan. But I also know, you know, they'd say fun and that dad likes to teach us. And so because when we're eating dinner at the table, I'm usually we're doing pop Dog. Quizzes, whether it's on matters of deep importance or or matters of college football. It just depends.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:30]:

Who inspires you to be a better dad?

JP DeGance [00:23:32]:

All 8 of my kids. I feel an awesome responsibility that I know Doc. No one will have a greater impact on our likelihood of living a healthy and happy life later than me and certainly their mother. But there's a lot of data. It says, particularly for our daughters, that there's this outsized major impact that dads play, and so I just can't help, but when I see my kids in the morning, especially my little 4-year-old, I can't help. Lucy, my youngest, is a daughter, and she runs the house, as my older kids all know. I

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:16]:

You've given a lot of pieces of advice today. As we finish up today, what's 1 piece of advice you'd want to give to every dad?

JP DeGance [00:24:21]:

Live life with your children. And I mean that song, The Cats in the Cradle and the Silver Spoon. A little boy, blue, and the man on the moon. When you come home, son, I don't know when. I think so. Many times, it's so critical for us to abide and be around our children and enjoy when they're little to be with them And in the things that they love to do. Even though it may not be the most fun thing for us when our little ones are little push yourself to find the joy in playing and condescending to your daughters when they're really little. And because as you do that and continue to do that, As they get older, they will want to spend time with you, and you will want to spend time with them.

JP DeGance [00:25:02]:

The thing that I've gotten the most joy out of is actually these teenage years. Now that I am a college freshman, all of my teenagers actually enjoy spending time with me, and they like spending time with their friends. But when it's time to do something, they look forward to it. And they're okay with an occasional Friday night or Saturday night and dad, I'm watching some games with dad or or spending some time with dad. And that's all built on years of living life with them from a young age.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:31]:

Well, JP, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey, for sharing this study. If people wanna find out more About you, about your organization, where should they go?

JP DeGance [00:25:40]:

Go to communio.org, particularly to get the study, which goes into the slowness of data, the Goes into a lot of interesting stuff. Particularly, it goes into a lot of research on fathers' impact on faith practice, Which for dads who are interested in understanding that, it's communio.org backslash study. It's the relationship with our earthly father. That has an impact on whether or not you believe that there's a heavenly father out there who loves you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:08]:

Well, JP, I just wanna, again, say thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing and being able to help fathers to be able to see the importance of finding that community around them, and I wish you all the best.

JP DeGance [00:26:18]:

Hey. Thank you so much, Christopher.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:20]:

If you've enjoyed today's Dads with Daughters podcast episode, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the resource for any dad who wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. The And the Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, an interactive forum, step-by-step road maps, and more. You will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out atfatheringtogether.org.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:59]:

If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis:

Dad's with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters And be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis :

We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents. Bring your A-Game because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

In a heartfelt and candid conversation on the Dads with Daughters podcast, Mack Brock, a renowned Christian musician, opens up about his fears and hopes as a father raising daughters. Emphasizing the need to protect and nurture his daughters into strong, independent women, Brock highlights the importance of understanding and engaging with each of his three kids in a way that resonates with their unique personalities and interests.

Balancing Public and Private Life

As both a musician and a parent, Mack Brock acknowledges the challenges of balancing his public persona with his private family life. He discusses the importance of creating a sense of family unity by involving his kids in his work and ministry, providing them with a glimpse into his passion and dedication to music while maintaining a healthy boundary between his public and private life.

Embracing Change through Fostering

The conversation takes a poignant turn as Brock shares his family's decision to become foster parents. The Brock family's journey began with a temporary foster placement that has since evolved into a long-term arrangement. Mack and his wife have navigated difficult conversations with their biological children about fostering, emphasizing the impact and importance of being adaptable and supportive as a family, irrespective of the changing dynamics.

Nurturing Resilience and Emotional

Well-being Brock delves into the emotional complexities of fostering and the potential impact of reunification with Z, their foster child, with his biological parents. The family has consciously chosen to shift their mentality from a temporary arrangement to embracing Z as a beloved member of their family, regardless of the duration he stays with them. They discuss the possibility of reunification and the potential need for family and individual child therapy to navigate the emotions and challenges that may arise.

Music, Obedience, and Family Unity

Mack Brock's music career and success have been a result of taking small obediences to the Lord and being open to opportunities as they arise. His commitment to faith and artistry is interwoven with his dedication to nurturing his family, demonstrating the harmony between his professional pursuits and familial responsibilities. The Brock family's journey reflects the utmost importance of faith, humility, and optimism in overcoming the challenges of parenthood and fostering.

Mac Brock's thought-provoking insights and exemplary approach to parenting inspire us to embrace the challenges and joys of nurturing strength, resilience, and compassion in our children, whether biological or foster, amid life's ebbs and flows. His unwavering commitment to music and family shines a light on the transformative power of faith, love, and unwavering devotion in shaping a wholesome and nurturing family environment.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad who wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, an interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts but, more importantly, with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]:

Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love sitting down with you and going on this journey that you and I both are on in raising those strong, independent women in our lives, and we can't do this alone. We have to have community, we have to be able to listen and learn the stories of other fathers around us. And through those stories, you and I can become stronger fathers ourselves, and we can be more engaged. We can be better intentional fathers to our daughters as well. I love being able to be on this journey with you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:06]:

I love being able to bring you different dads and different people every week from so many different walks of life who are fathering in different ways. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. There's no one right way to father. Every one of us does it a little bit differently, and that's okay. We can learn from each other, though, and know that Even if you started on 1 path toward fatherhood, you can pivot. You can change. You can make adjustments along the way because, Especially as your kids are young, they're gonna be forgiving, and they're going to accept you who you are, but you have to be willing to change too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:43]:

And you have to be willing to move in that other direction and be willing to say, you know what? This is not working. Or, yeah, this is working. And keep going. So this week, we got another great guest with us. Mac Brock is with us, and Mac is a is the CEO of Proverbs 31 Ministries. has 3 kids. He also has a ton of worship songs that you may or may not have already heard, and we're gonna talk about that music too. And that includes Foods, an RIAA-certified double platinum single, Oh Come to the Altar, a platinum-certified Do It Again, which amazingly has over 129,000,000 YouTube views, and a gold track resurrecting that has 49,000,000 YouTube views. I can't even imagine that many YouTube views, But I would love to have that many YouTube views. But we're gonna be talking about his music as well as well as talking about his journey as a father. Mac, thanks so much for being here today.

Mack Brock [00:02:41]:

So good to be here. I need to correct one thing. It's it's my wife who is the CEO of Proverbs 31. She is the boss lady. I'm just a musician. All I do is write and sing songs. My wife is, like, the superstar, rock star that kinda handles things that are way above my pay grade. Well, I

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:00]:

appreciate that because we gotta give credit where credit's due. And, Meredith, keep up the awesome work. Keep rocking it. You can tell Mac is on your side, and we're all on your side. The So Mac, what I love starting these opportunities to talk with an opportunity to turn the clock back in time. Wouldn't that be great if we just had the power to snap our fingers and we could go back? But we're gonna turn the clock back in time to that first moment, that first moment that you found out that you were going to be a dad to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Mack Brock [00:03:29]:

Man, for both of my kids, I have a son first and then a daughter second. And for both of them, I was very wrong on the gender. I thought I was gonna have a daughter first, then I thought for sure I was gonna have another son. And so finding out I was having a daughter, it was just such a little bit panicky because I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to handle girls. I don't know how this it feels very scary and overwhelming. And then when she came, it was even that was even more magnified of like, alright. What am I supposed to do? But over the years, Step by step, day by day, I feel like me and my wife have learned together how to raise our little girl.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:09]:

Talking about fear, I talked to a lot of dads. And especially dads with daughters, I hear constantly that there is some fear. There is some fear about stepping into the role of being a father the To a daughter. As you've had your daughter in your life and you reflect back on that, what was your biggest fear or what is your biggest fear in raising a daughter? Dog.

Mack Brock [00:04:30]:

I think, you know, we naturally have that protection instinct. And so there's just like, I want to protect her from everything. I wanna protect her from the world, the And, and that's not reality. We can do our part, but, eventually, you know, our goal is to raise up women and to raise up strong women who are independent and can go out into the world. And so I think it's still not I don't know if fear is the right word, but it's still on my mind the know my heart a lot of, like, navigating that, and how do I pour continue to pour into her and to steward her magical imagination, her creativity, and then also steward her strength And Steward, we're growing in to be a woman of the lord and and a woman that is confident and believes in herself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:24]:

I did mention you're a father of 3, and you have 3 different kids with different personalities, and different needs.

Mack Brock [00:05:31]:

All different. Very different.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:33]:

As You look at all 3 of your kids, and you look at yourself as a father, I know that even with two kids, I have to Be engaged with my kids in different ways. I have to understand them differently to be able to spend that unique time with them. To be able to build those relationships, what do you have to do to be able to not only, You know, be the father you wanna be, the husband you wanna be, the musician you wanna be, but what do you have to do to be able to build those unique relationships with each of your kids?

Mack Brock [00:06:09]:

The Yeah. That's such a good point because it is so wild how vastly different my daughter and my son are, the two oldest. They come from, you know, me and my wife, same DNA, same the Same everything, and they are so different. And so I've had to learn just like everybody, they have different interests, different Hobbies and different ways to connect. And so, for my son, it's a lot of playing Fortnite. It's a lot of we have the same sense of humor, so we'll watch Docs YouTube videos where we'll kinda sit and enjoy something together. And my daughter is so different. For my daughter, it's a lot of Reading stories together or sitting down and playing LEGOs together and just having that kind of playtime.

Mack Brock [00:06:53]:

Dog. And even, like, bedtime routines are, like, way different between my kids. You know, my daughter really likes to, like, lay in bed and snuggle and talk and tell the stories to each other. My son was kinda never that way. But I've realized, man, this is like a small the Way to build, like, a deep connection with my daughter that is hopefully building and planting seeds and building a foundation that will last, Like, the rest of our lives in our relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:20]:

I love that because I think you're right. I mean, I think you have to go with the flow in so many ways, and you have to be willing to understand and get to know your kids, what makes them tick, but also what makes them light up the And add more fuel to that fire while at the same time, as you said, stewarding them the in other directions to be able to help them in many different ways. As you look at the fact I said, you are a musician. You live a public life in that way. People know you and your music, and they at least feel like they know you and know your music. Doc. Me about separating that and being able to live the public life while at the same time Protecting the private life while at the same time having your kids see that public life and understanding Who you are publicly versus privately.

Mack Brock [00:08:19]:

Oh, I totally know if I even know how to answer that question because I feel at the core of what I do, I'm just like a worship leader. Dog. You know, I don't feel like this, like, big artist or anything like that. Like, For my career, and my calling in life is to Lead worship, and sometimes that's at our local church in Charlotte. But a lot of times, it's me traveling out and going out, you know, across the country and across the world to lead worship in other places. I think a big thing for me that's always been at the forefront is that I've been very careful for my kids not to ever feel like it's ministry and the church that takes their dad away, and that's, like, the bad thing. You know? Like, my dad's a pastor, and he was very, very good about that. Like, I grew up not hating the church because it kept my dad busy. Like, my dad was very, very good at Connecting the family to everything that he was doing, and I tried to do the same. And so, you know, whether it's, like, bringing my kids along no travel with me or whether it's just, like, having open, constant conversations about what I'm going to do or what I get to be a part of. And so for us, it doesn't feel totally like there's this public persona, and then there's this private persona as much as it feels like this is what your dad does. This is his calling in life. This is when he goes out, and he sings about Jesus, and he tells people about Jesus. And my kids, in some respect, get to feel like they're a part of what I do. And so it's not just me going out and doing my job. It's like Doc. Our family is a part of this thing. And even with my wife's ministry and her running Proverbs 31, it's one big, like, unit of, like, this is what our family's calling are these different ministries that we get to be a part of. And I think just having conversations, allowing our kids to feel somewhat a part of that. I don't know. It's been really special and cool for us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:15]:

Now, raising sons and raising daughters are very different things in many different ways, And it takes a different touch. It takes a different perspective and a different way of parenting. What's been the hardest part for you in being a father to a daughter?

Mack Brock [00:10:34]:

I think, going back to what I said earlier, that I want my daughter to be. She's our creative. She's our magical thinker. She lives in, like, this like, her own world of, you know, just constantly creating stories. She's a songwriter. She's only 8, but, like, that's one of the ways that we connect. And so I think, as I said earlier, I think it's like learning to the Steward that and the learning to pour into all the things that make her magical and make her special and the Finding ways to just, like, cultivate and build that into her while at the same time wanting to build strength the in her. And that's one of the things like, my wife is such a strong woman, and she's such a she's just tough.

Mack Brock [00:11:17]:

And I lean on her of, like, how can we cultivate that in Cyrus' life and in Cyrus is hard. How can we make her have that same kind of bigger that my wife has without the Kind of hardening of the soft parts that Cyrus has? She's such a soft, tender, special spirit. And so it's just navigating those 2 things. Docs. It's tough now, but I think it's gonna be even tougher as she gets older and, like, learning how to just navigate that. I think another hard thing, just to be Totally real, is when you have a busy job and when you have, like, a demanding career, whatever it might be, traveling a lot or just, you know, busy at home. It's those moments where your daughter says like, hey.

Mack Brock [00:11:57]:

Will you do this with me? I want you, you know, can you come and sit down and play Legos with me? And you're worn out and tired, and you're like, no. Honestly, I just wanna I need to veg out for a minute. And it's hard to say, like, No. I have got to value and treasure these moments that my daughter is like she's verbally requesting, like, I want a connection with you, and it's the putting down your, I guess, your own, like, rest to make sure you're still, like, getting those connections with your kid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:26]:

So important. And I have definitely had those experiences where, as you said, You come home. You're just wiped, and your kid says, will you do this with me? And you just wanna say, I just need to the Sit down.

Mack Brock [00:12:42]:

And I fail a lot. I'm, you know, I mess I failed that test a lot, but it's something I've been challenging myself with a lot more, too, and just being aware of it And saying like, man, when when your kid is just asking. You know? And it's usually a very simple thing. They're not always asking, like, hey. Will you take me To this or take me to go do this? It's a lot of times it's just like, hey. Will you sit in my room and play with me?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:04]:

As they get older, that's when they say, will you take me here? Will you take me there? Right.

Mack Brock [00:13:09]:

Right. I'm not quite there yet. Yeah.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:10]:

I get that. I completely understand that. So I know that one of the other experiences that you and your wife have had has been in the foster arena and that you stepped a number of years back now into the world of being a foster parent too. And you've had a son come into your life that way. And so talk to me about that journey and what made you and your wife choose to step on that path and bring him into your life.

Mack Brock [00:13:42]:

Yes. Just a quick rundown. So we have, our oldest son, the biological son, Harvey, he's 12. My daughter, Cyrus, is 8. Then in 2020, we decided, we got our foster parents' license and decided to start fostering. And we got a little boy come to live with us named Z, and he's been with us for about three and a half years now.

Mack Brock [00:14:02]:

Fostering was always something that was on my wife's heart, and it wasn't really on mine. But it was kind of like, I'll take the classes, and I'll read the books and take it one step at a time, and ultimately, It became a big portion of my heart as well of, like, feeling the call to do that. And yeah. And so it was just a lot of little yeses that ultimately led to, like, the big yes of you get the phone call, and they're like, hey. We have this little boy. He's five months old.

Mack Brock [00:14:31]:

He needs a place to stay for the immediate future, then we'll figure out what's next. In the immediate future, a week turns into a month, turns into six months, turns into three and a half years. And so that has been, it's been a gift for us. It's been a challenge, obviously. I mean, just having a 3-year-old is a challenge. So that is what comes with the territory. But I think one of the things that is talking about parenting and all that aspect is there's been a lot of the healthy but also, like, difficult conversations with our bio kids of saying like, hey. Like, we're bringing in Doubt.

Mack Brock [00:15:06]:

This other person that's gonna take a lot of our attention, and he's gonna have a lot of things that we have to focus on. And that's gonna take attention away from you, or that's gonna take the time away from you. And so even just being honest about the realities of fostering or the realities of adding another kid to your family. Those have been healthy conversations. It's also just been the reality of, like, they're difficult. Those are difficult things for kids to go through, and it's led to a lot of, like, just good connections. And I think it's interesting because, for my wife and me, that's something that we say yes to.

Mack Brock [00:15:42]:

And when we decided to say yes to it, we wanted to bring our kids in, explain to them, here's where we're leaning. We want to make sure y'all feel comfortable with this as well. And they're kids, and so it's not like they can totally create here's my consent, and here are all the things of, you know, all these the arguments or whatever, but they were very excited about it. But it's something we've had to continue to have conversations about throughout the whole journey, and the Three and a half years that Z has been with us continue to have conversations about where they're at, how their own heart is feeling, how their own emotions are feeling. Sometimes they're up, and sometimes they're down, but thing is the openness of the conversation has been the best thing for us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:22]:

So talk to me a little bit about being a foster dad and how that differs for you from how you parent your other kids, if it is different. I'm sure that there are people who hear about or know people who have fostered, but they don't know How you have to parent in either the same or different way.

Mack Brock [00:16:45]:

So when Z first came to live with us, there were a lot of obstacles right from the get-go, but you're loving him like you would love any baby, and and you would love any child that's in your care. And I think to be totally transparent and vulnerable a little bit; there was a time early on where it was like, you know, part of fostering is the goal ultimately is reunification with bio parents. That's the goal. And so it is, by definition, like a temporary thing. And me and my wife, the We felt ourselves a little bit switch into this mentality of almost, like, just caring for this child instead of bringing this child in as our son for the time that he was with us. And we felt that in our hearts even if it was, like, unspoken. And we had to have a conversation with each other very early on of, like, hey. Are you feeling this way? Like, I don't like I don't like that I'm feeling this way.

Mack Brock [00:17:38]:

And I think that we have to switch our mentality and switch our heart. Like, we can't treat this as temporary. Even if it is temporary, We can't treat we have to treat z as our son, and we had a very open conversation about that as a couple of saying, like, we're gonna make the decision. Like, We're gonna love him like our son. We're gonna treat him like our son. Our mentality, our heart is gonna treat him like he is ours, Whether it's for 6 months or what it's become now, you know, where he's been with us for a long time. And that was such a pivotal switch for us mentally in the way that we were able to, like, just love on him. And he is my son.

Mack Brock [00:18:16]:

And even if it's temporary, it's something that I had to make sure I felt that in my heart and expressed that to him.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:24]:

I can only imagine, especially I mean, he's been there longer than some placements Probably would happen. And as you said, you put your whole heart into him as your son and Not as just caring for someone in a temporary capacity, and you've had your those conversations with your own children the As he came to live with you, but they're seeing him as a part of the family too. And there may come a day when Z goes back and is reunified. And I'm sure that while there's probably some training that they try to put you through, It's not gonna be easy. And have you thought about that in how you and your wife and your family will be able to reconcile with that as well?

Mack Brock [00:19:11]:

Yeah. I mean, that's the reality with foster care, and those are heavy things for a child to walk through. And so we definitely had a lot of conversations of, like, what if this happens? What if this happens? How how are we gonna handle it? And there are a lot of resources for, like, the Family therapy and group therapy and then individual, like, child therapy to, like, walk through just even, like, the grieving process If you have to walk through something like that. And so we've had a lot of those conversations. We haven't had to walk through that personally. We've had a lot of friends that have a lot of foster Parent friends that have had to go through that. But, yeah, we haven't had to cross that bridge, but we've definitely talked a lot about what are the steps we would need to take. If that came to pass.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:56]:

I mentioned at the beginning, you are an artist and, as you said, a worship leader and an artist. So talk to me about that story for yourself, and what drew you into wanting to be not only A worship leader but beyond that, an artist that has 100,000,000 views on YouTube and having people that are really connecting to the music that you're putting out into the world.

Mack Brock [00:20:25]:

Yeah. I mean, I grew up in the church, like I said before, and so I grew up. My mom's a musician. She's a drummer and grew up around music and ministry. That was, like, my whole life all growing up. And so naturally, kinda led into, It's just a part of my life and one of the things that I was constantly, like, in front of me.

Mack Brock [00:20:43]:

And when I look back, me and my wife, we've been married for 17 years. And Dog. Even in our marriage, when we look back, we didn't have these grand here's our 5-year plan, our 10-year plan, our 15-year plan for our marriage or for even my career or anything like that, it was it's a lot of the step by step the Small obediences to the lord when they're in front of us that I feel like has led to where we're at now. And so that led to Doubt. We moved to Charlotte to be a part of Elevation Church when it was first getting started to pouring into that ministry and and writing those songs and then stepping Dog. Of Elevation Church into, like, kind of a solo career. It was just something that was, like, always stuff that was always in front of us, saying yes and trying our best to be obedient with what was in front of us. And so now we look back, and we see, wow.

Mack Brock [00:21:37]:

Look at what the lord has done. Look at it's amazing, and and it's wild. And it's Crazy to to see what he's done, but it was never, and we're both planners. Me and my wife are both type a. We like goals. We like to have a plan. We like to know what's ahead of us, what we're working towards, but it's pretty crazy to see that even with all of our own personal goals or all of our own, like, dreams, It all boils down to what's in front of us, being good stewards of what's right of what we have today, the And being obedient to what we have today, and that's kind of what's led to where we're at now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:13]:

I love that. Now you talked about the fact that you started Elevation Church, and you worked with Elevation the church, and then you broke off into that solo career. And I'm sure there's, as you talked about within foster care, I'm sure that you put all your heart and soul into elevation. And then, as you broke off, there's probably some grieving that happens. And not having that one church that you're there all the time and you're part of, and now you're putting your heart and soul into the solo career in the music itself. But talk to me about the difference there for you And now going from being at the church and worshiping at that church to now being in the solo career, not having the same community that you're constantly being a part of, but you have a broader community now that you're a part of and sharing the gospel with.

Mack Brock [00:23:06]:

Yeah. I mean, I'm such, and I grew up playing in bands. I love being a part of a team doing, like, Mac Brock, quote, unquote. It's, like, never, like, in the cards for me. I was like, that sounds awful. But when we felt like the lord was calling us to step away from elevation. It wasn't to pursue a solo career. It was just we felt like we were supposed to be obedient to that calling of stepping away, not sure what was next.

Mack Brock [00:23:32]:

But then it naturally led to me continuing to write songs, me wanting to, like, the Still create music, and so that's kinda what led to even where I'm at now. And, yeah, it is different. It's like you said, there there is a different type of community. No. There's a different type of team that I'm a part of, and I still have lots of musician friends that still travel with me, or it's not necessarily, like, a Part of a specific, you know, worship ministry, church, whatever, but there's still a core group of people that are Still, like, heavily involved in what would I do, and I don't feel like I'm alone or solo in that sense, which I'm very, very grateful Dollar.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:10]:

Well, I know you've got a new album out. Just Like You've Always Done is your newest album that's out. And I guess Dog. Talk to me a little bit about the writing process and what you do to Bring these new, not only the new songs but these new albums out into the world, what you have to go through personally To be able to not only come up with the inspiration but be able to put them all together than to create the new album for your fans.

Mack Brock [00:24:42]:

The hardest part is is, the Like, the songwriting aspect. You know? There's just a lot of writing, and it's a lot of reworking. And, I mean, there's so many songs that come into the process of making, like, a full album, which I'm, like, still, like, kind of in the middle of. I'm still navigating, like, what songs are gonna be on, what's, you know, what songs are getting cut. So there's it's such a long process in that respect. Even today, I was kinda, like, pacing around the house, and Meredith could tell, like, she's the She's like, something's, like, going on with you. I was like, man, I had just had I can't crack this 1 song that I'm, like, working on. There's something about it that I gotta, like, penetrate to fix it, and I can't figure it out right now, and it's bothering me.

Mack Brock [00:25:23]:

And so there's just a lot of, like, that digging and the the next layer. You know? Because, Basically, there's a lot of songs that start, and you write it with a group of people, you know, hit a couple of people, or you write it by yourself. That's almost like the easy part is to, like, start a song and get it going. But it's the next layer of digging and trying to figure out, like, what's the best version of the song? Am I really communicating in the most efficient way or the best way that I want to communicate? And so it's that digging. And then when you have the song done, then it's like, how do we want it to sound? And, you know, how are we gonna get it out? Doc. So there's just so many different layers. Every step of the way, there are so many different ways to make a song succeed and make a song, like, work or make it not the best version of itself, which I've done several times.

Mack Brock [00:26:14]:

And so it's just being diligent and persevering through the process, knowing that it is just a process. And so I love the process, as frustrating as it can be, as discouraging as it can be. Like any creative, You go through this cyclical thing of, like, I think this is awesome. Oh, wait. This sucks. Oh, wait. No. It's not as bad as I thought it was.

Mack Brock [00:26:36]:

The Oh, okay. It's not as great as I thought it was gonna, you know, like, there's just this cyclical thing, but I think being aware of that for me helps me know the This is part of the process. I just gotta, like, push through and keep working, keep digging. And I'm always grateful for when it's finally done and out, and I'm able to, like, release it out into the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:54]:

I love that. And people have not heard the music on this album. What should they be looking forward to the most, and what do you hope that people are gonna take away from the music?

Mack Brock [00:27:03]:

So the album is still kind of in progress. I released the song just like you've always done. That's the 1st single for the album. And then the album releases early next year. And there are a lot of songs that I just am, like, so excited for people to hear. But just like you've always done, the song that's out now has been such a great I think that's a great start to the song because it's thematically, or it's a great start to the album because the Thematically, it hits so many things that I'm very passionate about. One of the biggest things that I'm passionate about is remembering and declaring them and helping people focus on just the faithfulness of God. Because if you're a dad out there, you know that seasons come and seasons go, and there are the highs, and there are lows, and there are mountain tops, and there are dollies.

Mack Brock [00:27:45]:

And it's so easy to get your mind or your eyes off of the Lord no And to be discouraged and to feel like whatever season you're in, if you're in a down season, it's never gonna end. And so just to be reminded of, like, the consistency and the steadiness of who Jesus is in our lives and trusting that, I find so much hope in that. Dog. And there are so many songs on the new album that kinda touches on that as well, and so I'm very excited about it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:12]:

Well, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood five, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Mack Brock [00:28:18]:

Okay. Let's go.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:19]:

In one word, what is fatherhood? Chaos. When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Mack Brock [00:28:27]:

Honestly, this past week, I was talking to Cyrus came with me to a band rehearsal. And at the end of the night, we had a big prayer time. And when she was driving home, just hearing her process, what we talked about in our prayer time, how she talks to Jesus and what she does when she's feeling anxious. No Just even having that conversation with her, I don't know if that felt like I've succeeded as a father, but it was a big win.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:50]:

If your kids were here and I was talking to all 3 of them, How would they describe you as a dad?

Mack Brock [00:28:55]:

Not cool. I'm always trying to tell my kids that I'm a cool dad, and They don't believe me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:02]:

Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Mack Brock [00:29:04]:

I've got several friends that I look to often and see the way that they're raising their kids and the relationships that they have with their kids that are, like, teenagers now or college that very inspiring, and I'm constantly, like, the Asking. Alright. Help me in this season. What I'm doing now helps me cultivate these relationships that you have with your kids now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:25]:

You've given a lot of pieces of advice, a lot of things people to think about today; as we finish up, what's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Mack Brock [00:29:33]:

Be as present as possible and be even for me, I travel so much with my work, but I've worked it out in a way that that when I'm home, I can just be present, and I'm home a lot. And so just be present and make yourself, like, seen and known, and make sure that your kids know that you're seeing them and knowing them. It's just so easy, even when you're home, to be on your phone or be locked in on Netflix or whatever it might be, and I do. I'm guilty of all those things too, but I'm challenged myself, and I'm challenged to make sure that my kids know that I see them, that my Them. Kids know that I'm there present with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:05]:

Well, Mac, I want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your own journey today and for sharing the things that you've learned as you've gone through fatherhood. If people wanna find out more about you, about your music, or about Meredith's organization, whatever it may be, where should they go to find out more?

Mack Brock [00:30:23]:

I mean, you can go to MackBrock .com, but there's also just Mac Brock on Instagram or Mara Brock on Instagram. That's where you'll find us. We're there a lot.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:32]:

Well, Mac, thank you so much for sharing your story today, and I wish you all the best.

Mack Brock [00:30:37]:

Thank you. This is great. Appreciate it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:39]:

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad who wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. The And the Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, an interactive forum, step-by-step road maps, and more. You will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out atfatheringtogether.org.

Dr. Christopher Lewis:

Dad's with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters And be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis :

We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents. Bring your A-Game because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

In a recent episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis delved into an insightful conversation with guest Dai Manuel, focusing on the unique challenges of fatherhood, maintaining resilience in relationships, and embracing whole-life fitness as a means of self-improvement. As the father of two daughters and an advocate for holistic well-being, Dai Manuel shared his experiences as an "on-demand dad" and discussed the emotional journey of transitioning into the empty nest phase. In this blog post, we'll explore the valuable insights and practical advice shared by Dai Manuel on navigating fatherhood, fostering resilient relationships, and pursuing holistic fitness for a fulfilling life.

Fatherhood and the Empty Nest Phase

Dai Manuel candidly shared his experiences of fatherhood, particularly as his daughters have grown up and moved out of the family home, leaving him and his wife as empty nesters. As a father, he discussed the emotional challenges of letting go and acknowledging the everlasting nature of parenting, even as children grow older and become independent. He highlighted the importance of recognizing the evolving role of a parent and the continuous support needed by children, even into adulthood.

Resilience in Relationships

The conversation also delved into the impact of empty nesting on the relationship dynamics between parents. Dai Manuel emphasized the need for intentional, consistent, and persistent efforts to build resilience in relationships, especially during the transition to empty nesting. He shared insights on the importance of using specific language and establishing a dedicated weekly date night as effective tools for strengthening the bond between partners. Dai's recommendations of relationship books such as "The 5 Love Languages," "The Four Agreements," and "Conscious Loving" serve as valuable resources for maintaining healthy and resilient relationships.

Navigating Parental Concerns and Relationships

Dai Manuel reflected on the challenges of navigating parental concerns, particularly in his youngest daughter's relationship. Drawing from his experience in men's coaching and relationship work, Dai shared a meaningful conversation he had with his daughter about recognizing toxic behaviors in her relationship. He emphasized the significance of stepping in as a father to help children perceive situations that they may not fully understand. Additionally, he recommended the book "The Way of the Superior Man" and highlighted insights from it, which played a pivotal role in his conversation with his daughter.

Embracing Vulnerability and Whole Life Fitness

Dai spoke about the impact of vulnerability in fostering deep connections with his daughters and in his relationships. This vulnerability extends beyond parenting and into his brand new podcast, "The 2% Solution," which focuses on whole-life fitness. He emphasized the significance of engaging in physical, emotional, spiritual, relationship, and financial fitness as essential components of a fulfilling life. The podcast aims to provide actionable strategies that can be implemented in as little as 30 minutes a day, focusing on areas such as releasing trauma, clarifying values, and using fitness as a catalyst for overall well-being.

Taking Action for Holistic Well-Being

Dai Manuel's encouragement for incorporating a nutrient-dense green smoothie and 30 minutes of brisk walking into daily routines is a practical example of taking action for holistic well-being. He emphasized the positive impacts on sleep, stress management, food choices, physical changes, and metabolism, urging listeners to embrace these simple habits for positive transformation.

In summary, Dai Manuel's insights offered a wealth of wisdom on navigating the empty nest phase, fostering resilient relationships, embracing vulnerability, and pursuing holistic fitness. His commitment to supporting fathers and individuals in their pursuit of well-being serves as an inspiration for all. As we navigate the complexities of parenthood and seek personal growth, Dai's advice and experiences serve as a guiding light for creating meaningful connections, building resilience, and embracing holistic well-being through intentional actions.

Download Dai's Green Smoothies here

Learn more about Dai here

In the spirit of continuous improvement, the Dads With Daughters podcast extends an invitation to join the Fatherhood Insider and the Dads with Daughters Facebook community for ongoing support, resources, and connection with fellow dads.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]:

Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. I am really excited to have you back again this week, every week. I love being able to sit down with you and talk to you about the journey that you're on, share some of my own experiences, and really delve into the things that are challenging you and bringing people to talk to you about the journey that they have had the And things that they can offer to help your journey be even smoother than it may have already been. Every father comes to fatherhood in different ways. There's no one right way to father. We've talked about that numerous times in numerous episodes, Dog. And it's so true because the way that you fathered, the way that I fathered, is going to be just a little bit different. But that doesn't mean that we can't learn from one another.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:07]:

That doesn't mean that we can't be vulnerable with one another and talk about our challenges because there will be challenges. It's not always going to be the Roses. It's not always going to be easy, but if you surround yourself with people who will help you, we'll lift you up. That is only going to help you be a stronger father and be there, more engaged, and a better parent in the end for your kids. Every week, I love being able to bring you different guests, different men, different people who have lots of different experiences that they can share with you. This week, I am really excited to be able to bring back the Repeat guest, Di Manuel, who is with us today. Di is a repeat guest. As I said, he was first with us on May 18th, 2020.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:58]:

It's been two and a half years. Been quite a while. Things have changed in Dai's life, and we're gonna talk about some of those changes that have happened. We're Doc. We're also gonna be talking about some of the things that he's doing right now to support dads and people to be able to really change their mindset, Dog. Think about not only fitness, wellness, and more but really changing your mindset to moving yourself in the right direction toward whole body fitness. And when I say fitness, it's not just about exercise, so we're gonna talk about that too. Di, thanks so much for being here today.

Dai Manuel [00:02:31]:

Chris, man, I gosh. The Last time we chatted was, like, a new lockdown. It was. Crazy, right, to think about wow, dude. This is awesome. I mean, it's, no, but it's funny, right, because we're connected online. Right? Like, I see you show up in my feed regularly. I see each other commenting in different groups.

Dai Manuel [00:02:49]:

So I feel like We've been there all the time. You know? So it's, but it's nice to be here in this formal, wow, return guest. I mean, I'm just honored to be back again. I'm like, wow. Do I have something extra to talk about? I'm sure gonna try.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:03]:

Well, as I said, things have changed since the last time we talked. And the last time we talked, your kids were you had one that was graduating. You had another that was still in high school and getting ready to keep going on in high Doc. Since then, they've both been out of the house. They're both doing their thing. They're adulting in their own ways, and now they have grown and flown. And I guess I wanted to talk a little bit about that and some of the new reality for you and your spouse and to talk about some of the things that you've had to do as your kids have moved out of the house to now be able to still be a be their dad, But maybe in a little bit different way.

Dai Manuel [00:03:47]:

DOD, the acronym. I'm a dad on demand. Alright? Docs. It's quite literally. You know, when I think about it now, my kids, are quick to ask for help when they need it, But that's about it. Otherwise, they're exerting their independence every which way they can. And you know what? Right on. Because I mean, I remember when I was 18 and moving away from home.

Dai Manuel [00:04:10]:

I moved all the way across the country. You know? At 18, I graduated high school, and I was okay. Peace out. I'm gone. Dog. And I literally went from Toronto, you know, like, on Ontario all the way to Vancouver, which is the furthest I could go on the West Coast. And so I remember the excitement, the exhilaration, but also the fear, right, associated with all that. Now, with my daughters, they're both still in the province, which is awesome.

Dai Manuel [00:04:32]:

So they're within distance. My one daughter, you know, literally an hour away. My other daughter is about 6 hours away. So I don't see them as much as I'd like to. Of course. That transition from them leaving home, That move-out day, because we moved them. We did. We moved both of them into the universities, one on campus, the other one renting a room and shared home.

Dai Manuel [00:04:53]:

And just the act of moving them and then driving away. It was really hard. I didn't realize how challenging it was gonna be. I mean, I remember my mom just bawling your eyes out that day that I was leaving to get on the plane to move to Vancouver. Right? Like, I remember just losing it and being like, What's up, Mom? What's wrong with you? You know? Like, don't worry about it. It's not like I'm dying here. I'm just I'm just moving. I get it now.

Dai Manuel [00:05:19]:

I get it. And, obviously, I didn't bawl like my mom did, but I shed some tears. There was this feeling of a clap and just being all choked up. And that's just the, I guess, part of life. Right? We all process it a little bit differently. It was much harder on my wife, full disclosure. It was definitely more challenging for her, especially when our 2nd daughter moved away because now it was, like, the 20 years of having kids around to no kids around. And what should be the 1st to say that I'm kind of a big kid?

Dai Manuel [00:05:44]:

But, anyway, I at least clean up after myself. But it's been just an interesting last few months. We're in a great place now. We talk to the kids regularly. We always have a Sunday night Zoom call, all of us on the call. We do message. We have a very active WhatsApp Family feed that we're constantly sharing. We also have a family feed on Instagram for us to share some of the funny posts that we're consuming.

Dai Manuel [00:06:04]:

And so there's lots of regular the contact still, but it's not that face to face like I was used to. So all that being said, it's just, I hate the cliche, but I'm gonna say it anyways. You know? Such as life, and it just goes on. Right? So but, yeah, that's that's more or less, you know, the update over the last few months because it's it's been interesting. The One

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:22]:

of the things that I guess that I wanna follow up on and ask you about there is the fact that you and your wife are now empty nesters, the We're gonna say Right. You're out of the house, and it's just the 2 of you now. And that is a transition for many as you have gone from a dynamic of the 1st 4, then 3, and now just the 2 of you. How has that changed your relationships, and what have you had to do? To be able to fill that gap and maybe even reconnect in some ways now that the kids are not there.

Dai Manuel [00:06:56]:

Great question, Chris, because I also know that this is well, let's be honest. This is a big issue for a lot of couples. You know? When the kids move out of the house, I mean I, and I hate to say this, but we all sorta know what the underlying Reality is here. And a lot of times, parents stay together until the kids leave the home. I remember my parents, they did that for the longest as they could, but they eventually got to a place where it's like, no. Dog. My dad's mental health, my mom's mental health, they needed to split. But I know that it went on for years, trying to keep the family unit together. Even though the relationship between the parents, you know, was not something to emulate.

Dai Manuel [00:07:32]:

You know? Like, you could tell there are issues. So this whole piece around relationships and that dynamic constantly variable relationship, this romantic relationship, you know, between my wife and I, I have to be well, then I'm gonna share with you. You know, there's 1 thing that's helped us navigate this really well. And what I mean by that is it's the resiliency to deal with stress. That's what we're all looking to improve In every aspect of life, right, like resiliency, you can make yourself more resilient, being consistent and persistent enough To build up certain tolerances, if you will, or buffers. Right? And what I mean by that is, obviously, if you do some of that exercise and work out fairly regularly, You're gonna be on the far end of healthy. Right? So if you get sick or an injury, you're gonna shift back a little bit, but you might go from being uber-healthy to healthy. So you have a bit more buffer where, you know, some people might be struggling to be healthy.

Dai Manuel [00:08:23]:

They get a major injury or sickness. Woah. They go to unhealth very quickly. And so it's, again, building up resilience in all these different ways. And when it comes to our relationship, there's one thing that I think's given us a lot of resilience as a couple. And I think we might have shared about this before, but Chris, I use a certain type of language. Anybody who sees my social or hears me talking about my wife, I always say we've been dating for x amount of years. Like, I've been dating my wife now going on 23 years.

Dai Manuel [00:08:50]:

I am very selective with that language. I'm intentional with that language. Because my wife today, Chris, is very different than the woman I met almost 23 years ago. But if I didn't intentionally, with a lot of diligence and patience, but also a wanting to constantly reconnect. Rediscover all those aspects that are shifting in us if I didn't do that, obviously, that idea of growing apart. Is a reality, but we wanted to grow together, not apart. And for that, we had a dedicated date night that was nonnegotiable.

Dai Manuel [00:09:27]:

Both of our calendars every week, Saturday night, 5 to 11. Boom. Nonnegotiable. Like, we have friends that call us, and they'll be like, oh, no. It's Saturday night. We can only ask Diane Christie if we ask them as a couple. You know? It's not like one or the other. Dog.

Dai Manuel [00:09:42]:

But this has been really a godsend for us. You know? Like this dedicated evening every week, doesn't matter how busy life is, the How much chaos is going on around us or for us or into us. Right? We know we have this little oasis to look forward to where we have that intentional energy shared with each of us, between us. And so that has been one thing that has really helped us with the resiliency in our relationship. There are other things as well. For, I recommend people read the 5 love Languages and the four agreements, two great books that I highly recommend, and there's also a book called Conscious Loving. Those are three key relationship books I recommend to anybody and everybody who listens to me, and quite frank, you don't need any other relationship books. If you had those 3, you've got everything covered.

Dai Manuel [00:10:26]:

The Okay? But that's really it. That piece that's allowed us to sort of sustain that part of us, you know, as a couple. And since the kids have left, It's been even more important to honor that weekly date, if you know what I mean, because it is interesting because it was just so many opportunities for us to do things during the week When the kids are around. When the kids weren't there, all of a sudden, it's like saying yes to, you know, she might come home late after work, or I might do an impromptu workout with a buddy or Go for a bike ride. Like, before, we would have had this time to come together and meet and start preparing dinner, etcetera, and that's not happening as regularly now. And so intentional date night is even more important now than it was when we had kids, which is interesting. And I know some people are thinking, oh, that's Different, but, no, it's true. It really is true.

Dai Manuel [00:11:08]:

Because I can see how couples grow apart when the kids go away. I really do see that. So we're doing our darndest not to let that happen.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:15]:

You talked originally about the kids and how you are letting them fly and that they are they're dads on-demand type of aspect. Dog. Talk to me about what you've had to do to let go because for many men, for many fathers, you want to still be a part of their lives, and you want to stay engaged, but as you said, dad on demand, and you have to give them that space to be able to do the things that they need to do to adult, to learn, to grow, but that's not always easy. So talk to me about what you've had to do to be able to get into that mindset or get yourself in that place where you can let go.

Dai Manuel [00:12:00]:

Wow. That's a great question. That's a really, really great question. And, you know, I'm like, geez. I wish I could've listened episode that gave me this information before. You know? So with us, actually, I'll bring it back a step for a second. The Wonder, how do I present? Well, I'm just gonna say it as it is. You know? Whatever.

Dai Manuel [00:12:19]:

I'll let that it'll come out in the wash. My daughter's both dating. Okay? They both had some boyfriends boyfriend. My eldest daughter just went through her 1st big breakup, so she's sort of in that state of being single again and figuring out what that looks like, but she's been in a long-term relationship for over three years with the same guy and great guy. We, like, became part of our family quite literally. And so us as his parents, Obviously, we could be very naive and think, wow. I thought they'd be together forever. You know, it's like she's barely 21.

Dai Manuel [00:12:50]:

Right? Forget about it. But There was that feeling of wanting to protect them emotionally and psychologically, being there to console them, to protect And guard them against any negative. But that was something that we had to try, and it's been easier for me than my wife. The Okay. She's had a hard time with this because we both have an idea of how she can handle things better. How can you handle the breakup a little bit better? What's the intention? Where are you going after this breakup? Like, really just asking some very specific questions that are challenging, but to also help her be more reflective, But also learn from this experience because that's the thing with kids. And, I mean, we can all probably attest to this. We've been in the exactly same place where it's like Done.

Dai Manuel [00:13:34]:

Moving on. Right? And it's like, well, listen. The only way we prevent patterns from happening again and again is you have to recognize there is a pattern or Set some intentions before a pattern is created. And so we found that wanting to have these conversations with our girls is very, very present for my wife and I, and we've had to stop trying to force those conversations. That has been one of the hardest things for us is to just let go and let them live their lives. Let them make mistakes because we see them making them. You don't believe me. Do you see what I'm making? I'm like, dude.

Dai Manuel [00:14:08]:

I've done that one, like, 10 times. You just listened to me. Maybe I could have saved you some Doesn't matter. They wanna do their thing, and it's been the hardest thing, man. Like, honestly, I struggle with it a lot. But a little case in point: As parents, I don't think we can ever 100% let go. We can. At least, I don't believe I can.

Dai Manuel [00:14:25]:

I think that would be impossible because I'm until the Day I die, they're still gonna be my little girls. You know? Like, I could be a 100-year-old. They could be, like, in their seventies, and they're still my little girls. Right? Like, whatever. I'm still gonna parent, though. And here's the thing. My youngest daughter has been in a relationship for a couple of years. The Guy's a really nice guy.

Dai Manuel [00:14:45]:

He's stand-up-ish, but he is young. Maturity isn't quite there yet because, I mean, they're both under 20. Right? Like, they're they're just young. But we've recognized that there's been some signs of toxicity in the relationship. Certain tendencies in communication, Dog. The way they talk to one another, the way that they communicate through text or TikTok or whatever they're talking through. Right? Like, There are just certain aspects that aren't respectful. And in fact, because of our knowledge and experience, you know, like, I work with a lot of men and I do men's coaching, etcetera, etcetera.

Dai Manuel [00:15:18]:

I've also done a lot of work for the last 15 years on myself when it comes to relationships. So I'm much more in tune and mindful of what I'm observing. And people are probably familiar with the four apocalypses. Right? The writers of, and I'm not talking about the biblical sense, but I'm talking about the relationship killers, You know, like stonewalling, right, or gaslighting. And there are certain habits that are killers when it comes to relationships, And that growth that we can actually experience being in a healthy relationship, you know, and we sort of, and it's often based around fear and insecurities and just not knowing a healthier way the doing things. We've started to recognize in our daughters some of these tendencies, whether they're on the receiving end or sometimes they're on the dishing end. And I had this great conversation with my youngest daughter where I don't normally meddle in relationship conversations. Okay, Chris? I don't.

Dai Manuel [00:16:09]:

I don't talk about that. I'm very surface when it comes to talking about relationships, and because I just know that that's something that they gotta work through, but also, being that they're girls, They relate better with my wife when talking about relationships. My wife is great with that. She likes dealing with that. So I know I'm sort of, like, the backup pinched hitter when needed. Okay? And I was needed. Coach put me in because we could tell that there was something very wrong, and there was a pattern that we wanted to deal with and address. I sat down with her.

Dai Manuel [00:16:37]:

You know, both of us are sitting there, but I just started to explain some of the things I was observing in her boyfriend, But also things I was observing in her, how they started to compromise on some of their values. Some of the things that they were attracted to initially are now becoming so biased to one way, meaning very controlling type of things, wanting to know where they're at because they're also in a distance relationship right now. So some of these added pressures have now been added in, and so we brought this up with her and educated her, but also empowered her with some language around this. And this is the win. A week later, she came back and said, I had a conversation with them, and it went amazing. We're both working on it. Like, just to see them take that, which was really sensitive, especially Giving them some relationship advice, right, or coaching or mentorship, but seeing her receive it and then actually go and try to apply it. It was like A very proud moment for me when I got them to pat me on the back.

Dai Manuel [00:17:30]:

I was like, yeah. It went. But even my wife, after the fact, she's like, you know what? That was exactly what she needed to hear. I don't get involved in those conversations very often, but when I do, I'm very specific in what I'm observing and try to share it in a way that's not antagonistic, more reflective, and more inquisitory. Right? Like, I'm here to ask more questions to help her come to that discovery. And so everything that I'm sharing right now, hopefully, is just giving people ideas of ways to maybe navigate some of the harder conversations because this is really when we start talking about vulnerability, right, and that ability to utilize vulnerability as a skill to deepen connection and understanding and relatability. So, yeah, that's really it right there. But I mean, I don't know if that answered your question fully, but I touched on it from both sides of the fence.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:15]:

I think that so often, dads would not step into those conversations because you wanna give them that space. You want them to learn and grow. You want them to sometimes fail, but I love what you said there that there are times when you need to step in, and you need to show leadership, and you need to be able to help your child to be able to see things that may be right in front of them, But that they can't see.

Dai Manuel [00:18:43]:

Exactly. Spot on. And to be fair, I also the There's a book I recommend to a lot of men, and you could be a father or not a father. It doesn't matter. This book will be relevant, but it's called The Way of the Superior Man by David Dita. And just so you know, I know when I brought that book home the 1st time, my wife's like, what a chauvinistic book. She just looked at the title, and it does. It sounds extremely chauvinistic, But it is not what you think.

Dai Manuel [00:19:07]:

The way the superior man is really about this idea of what it means to be a great man or how to continuously evolve into a better version of oneself. But this speaks from a man representing a man's standpoint in their viewpoint. Great book. And so I had just reread that. So There were also some insights that I gleaned from that that I remembered from a couple of the chapters that was literally I could put it side by side what my daughter was the in her relationship. It was like the exact example shared in the book. So that also helped me with articulating, but also painting the picture. Sure.

Dai Manuel [00:19:40]:

But also Chris is the big one. And to echo exactly what you said, this idea about vulnerability and being able to step in, I shared some of my own past experiences where either I was on the receiving end or on the giving end and explaining how it made me feel and how it affected my relationships in the negative. So, being able to share that intimate knowledge with my daughter was also a piece that I could see just in her eyes when we were sharing that. It was just like it registered. Like, it was like, okay. I get it. This isn't like it's just a problem that I'm dealing with. This is a problem that everybody deals with.

Dai Manuel [00:20:11]:

Even my dad dealt with it. And I think one thing I've had to take The heart is I've been very selective about some of the past stories I share with my kids. You know? Like, until I did my TEDx talk a couple of years ago On vulnerability, but actually speaking about my challenges with alcohol for a good 15 years of my life, my daughters had no idea about that, and a lot of the things I shared in that talk. And I remember the day I gave that talk to them as a dry run-in one of my rehearsals the week before I actually went on the stage to do it. And remember their tears welling up and crying from a place of love, understanding, and respect. And, that was the best hug I ever had. In fact, the delivery of my TEDx Duck was far better than the one I did on the stage. But, again, it's all about this idea of sort of tapping into some of these emotions and learning how to better articulate them.

Dai Manuel [00:20:58]:

It is not easy at all. Full disclosure: it's hard, but it's also extremely worth it. And so I'd want to encourage and invite people to start doing it. Don't worry. You can't Chew this up. Okay? You can. Just the fact that your kids see you trying, wow, it will be inspiring, and it will bring you closer together with your kids.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:15]:

Speaking of that TEDx talk, it makes me wanna transition and talk a little bit about your brand new podcast because you did just the Share that TEDx Talk on your podcast, The 2% Solution. And I guess, first and foremost, I mean, you've been out there for quite some time. Dog. You know, you've shared videos and, you know, you've done a lot on fitness and working with men and women, just people that want to live healthier lifestyles. And Now you've brought what you have been sharing from an exercise end, wholesale cyclical Doc. To the point of now talking about what you're calling the 2% solution. Talk to me about that. What is your goal with this podcast? Why now? And why is it important to get this message out?

Dai Manuel [00:22:02]:

Thanks, Chris. Well, first of all, my book that was published a while ago is now Doc. It was called the Whole Life Fitness Manifesto, and it was a resource that allows people to better understand how to get started with creating more whole-life health and well-being for themselves. And what I mean by whole-life fitness is that fitness is an action. It's an activity that will help move the needle forward in certain areas, in particular, health areas. Right? Like, we wanna see blood pressure decrease well. Start walking 5 times a week for 30 minutes a day, you know, drink some extra water, and increase your fiber intake. Wow.

Dai Manuel [00:22:36]:

Look. All of a sudden, those markers start to improve. So we can quantify things quite nicely, But we can also qualify based on how we feel once we've achieved the result. But this is more than just physical fitness. We can talk about emotional fitness. We can talk about spiritual fitness, Relationship fitness, and financial fitness. Right? This really implies the activities we're doing to see those areas get stronger, Healthier, and more resilient because it does imply intentional actions to see the results through. But a lot of us get confused.

Dai Manuel [00:23:08]:

What's the best action to start with? How often do I do it? The How do I do it? Why the hell do I even rather do this? You know, like, there there's all these big questions that sometimes we just skimp over. We don't give the the necessary Dime or attention to really get clear with ourselves on what's the path in front of us. A lot of the time, we just feel like we're bushwhacking. We got a big machete, and we're just trying to get our way through it as best we can, but it is not a very efficient way to travel. You're gonna get really tired, and you probably will give up because it's not very fun. The Whole Life Fitness Manifesto teaches people how to leverage 2% of every 24 hours. That's where the 2% solution comes in. 2% of every, 24 hours is almost almost 30 minutes a day.

Dai Manuel [00:23:49]:

So it's really 30 minutes. I just tell people 30 minutes. I'm rounding up a little bit, but it's 30 minutes a day of intentional activities to see your physical body, your mental and emotional body, as well as that spiritual body. And all these parts of you gain resiliency. Get healthier. The 2% Solution podcast is just an extension of that where I'm now talking to different guest Docs on different subjects and sharing some great actionable tips and strategies that can be applied in as little as 30 minutes a day. To see improvement in the area that those subject matter experts are speaking to. Also, on every Monday, I've got a Monday motivation, super short. The Episode is always less than 7 minutes, which sets you up mindset-wise for the week ahead.

Dai Manuel [00:24:34]:

And then Fridays, I have Fit Tip Fridays which sets some healthy intentions for the weekend. Because I know Mondays and Fridays are important days to get the mindset right. Monday for the week that we're about to experience, the Friday because usually, the weekends are when people let themselves go. It's a weekend, which is a break from the week. You know? It's like my vacation from the week, and that's often where I find my clients would let their guard down, their intentions down, and awfully undo, unfortunately, a lot of what they did during the week. And then they start the week over again, feeling like they're right back at 0 again. And it's like, oh, no. Let's. I'm gonna help you with this.

Dai Manuel [00:25:09]:

And so those 2 short episodes on Monday and Friday are really to get the mindset in the right place And give you actionable tips and tricks and strategies to take in the weekend. So it's 3 episodes a week. And why? Because I want to the Fire, motivate, and educate people, and I am always gonna strive to do it in a fun way. And what better avenue than a podcast? So that's Really It.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:29]:

So you've put out a number of different episodes already, many of which have been the chapters of your book in talking about some of the things that you should be thinking about. Dog. And you've gotten to almost pretty much the end of the book in regards to those episodes. So what's next, and what is coming next the As you go down the path, you talked about the Monday Friday, but you're gonna have that midweek episode too. But what's the plan for the future?

Dai Manuel [00:25:56]:

Well, there are a few different aspects. I've recognized that this is really my own frustration. So out of my own necessity, I felt this idea is every time I have a guest on, we co-create an action sheet, a 1-page actionable sheet That summarizes the key things shared in the episode but also gives some actionable steps to start to implement the Some of the things talked about, and all those activities will always be less than 30 minutes a day. These resources will be accessible in the 2% Collective, which is the community of the 2% solution, and it's free for people to join. And, because, again, I want people to have access to the information so they can do something to see life get better. Because life only gets better when you start doing things. Okay? You can sit there and try to manifest the best life in the world, and that's great. You might have a very positive mindset, but unfortunately, just thinking about things doesn't necessarily make things Happen.

Dai Manuel [00:26:54]:

So we need to think about it. We need to reflect on it. We set some intentions, but now we go forward and do something. And so that's really the premise of the Podcast is to inspire people to do the right things for the right reasons to produce the right results. And in that, I feel I'd live in my purpose. Like, really, that's what it boils down to. I feel very fulfilled putting this kind of content out. And so in the future, I've already got over 100 people that have applied to be a guest.

Dai Manuel [00:27:18]:

So I've got plenty of amazing experts in so many different areas. I just recently had a conversation with somebody about some of the best strategies to release trauma In a healthy, constructive way, as well as how to use fitness. I just talked to somebody about the 3 best questions to ask if you wanna get very clear on what your values are. So there are all these sorts of types of people that are gonna be coming on to share this wisdom. And so, yeah, I'm just excited to be the conduit to get people the right Stop.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:44]:

So let's talk action then. Right now someone, you know, so a person's listening, they're hearing this, they're saying, okay. I'm gonna check out this podcast, but today, I'm listening, and I wanna do something. I wanna do something to just start moving in the right direction. What's one thing that they can start doing today that'll start to kind of turn the tide in helping them to find that whole life fitness for themselves.

Dai Manuel [00:28:10]:

Well, there are two things I ask people to do a lot of the time. 22 little things. 1 involves fuel. The second one involves activity, and the 2 are not mutually exclusive, by the way. Okay? They tend to feed each other quite literally. But the first one is to start your day with a green smoothie. Just every day, have a green smoothie. People are like, well, what kind of green smoothie? What do I put in it? Don't worry.

Dai Manuel [00:28:31]:

I've got a free book on that. I've got a recipe book with 10 of my favorite green smoothie recipes. It's free. People can have it. I'll provide you with the link, Chris. You can share it in the show notes. So everybody's listening, you can get a copy of this. So there we go.

Dai Manuel [00:28:44]:

Get rid of that excuse. Right? I don't have the time. Yes. You do. Because here's the thing. It's starting your day with this injection of nutrient dense Food. And it's in a liquid form, so it's easier to consume. You can do it on the fly because I hear so many people; oh, I don't do breakfast because I'm just too busy.

Dai Manuel [00:29:01]:

Just, like, I can't. Mornings are too chaotic. Gotta get the kids to the school. I gotta do this, that. Yo. You need a good meal to start your day. A green smoothie is the best that I found, it works great for my lifestyle. I've been doing this for over 15 years.

Dai Manuel [00:29:15]:

This is how I start my day every day, and it's awesome. And I tell people, do it for two weeks and tell me it doesn't make your difference. So that's the challenge. Throwing down the gauntlet right now. Okay? Do it for 2 weeks. Now, 2nd to that, if you wanna really get even more out of this 2-week commitment, I invite people to walk for 30 minutes every day Outside at a brisk pace. I mean, it's not just some sort of saunter. Right? Like, you're you're going with the intention of elevating the heart rate a bit, Doc.

Dai Manuel [00:29:42]:

So you feel like you're actually working. And so just 30 minutes, and I always say listen to a podcast like Chris', you know, or some the piece of information. So you're at least injecting something positive into your mind while you're doing your walking. I know it's technically 3 activities, but it's really just 2, but 2 are as one. So that would be it, and I invite people. Just do that for 2 weeks. And I know they're probably thinking, well, I mean, I don't have to work out at the gym. I don't have to, like, you know, measure my food.

Dai Manuel [00:30:06]:

Like, the Hell no. Okay. Like, it's about doing something that's realistically going to move the needle, but also, I want you to feel how simple it was to move that needle. I want people to experience a win that feels more effortless to attain. And this is believe me. After 2 weeks of doing this, you're gonna start to sleep better. You're gonna be managing your stress better. You're gonna be making better decisions around your food because you start your day with something healthy.

Dai Manuel [00:30:31]:

It gets the energy in a great place. When you're feeling great, you don't wanna stop feeling great. So you instinctively will start to choose different fuel sources just automatically because of how you're feeling. Also, because of the movement, you're gonna start to see physicality change. Your heart rate's gonna get better. You're gonna handle stress a little bit more effectively because you're actually releasing a bit of stress. You also start to boost your metabolism. So you start to have more metabolic health, meaning that you're using a lot more of those calories you put into your body as well for a healthy thing.

Dai Manuel [00:31:03]:

These are just some of the high-level stuff that you can expect within just as little as 2 weeks. And then after two weeks, oh, believe me. There are so many different things you can do, but that's a great place to start.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:12]:

Well, I appreciate that. I love that you threw down the gauntlet, and we'll definitely put a link in the notes today with your green smoothies and definitely, challenge Domino's. People to take you up on that challenge. Now if people wanna find out more about you, about your podcast, Where should they go?

Dai Manuel [00:31:30]:

On my website, Diamondwell.com or any social platform, Diamondwell. It's a nice thing about having a really Weird unique name. It's unencumbered everywhere. I'm the only one, but Dae is a Welsh name for David, dai. Manuel is Portuguese. It's m a n u e l. If you can spell it somewhat right, don't worry. You'll find me.

Dai Manuel [00:31:50]:

But as far as social, I'm most active on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Those are my three primary platforms. The primary ones that I tend to hang out on the most are my website, where I have lots of content and free resources. Over 1500 articles I've published over the last ten years. We're all geared toward helping people optimize their happiness, fulfillment, and joy in life. And so I always say, hey. Good luck, but it is a bit of a rabbit hole. So, when you go down the rabbit hole, be prepared. You're gonna get lots of great information, but you might find you're losing some time.

Dai Manuel [00:32:19]:

And I've had people message me like, oh my gosh. I was in there to read 1 article, and I ended up being on there for 2 hours. So, like, I always say thank you. And then, 2nd, thank you. Anyways but thanks for asking, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:30]:

Although, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today about you and your daughters, the challenges that have been happening at your own home, and how each of us can find fitness in our own lives in small, independent ways; I wish you all the best.

Dai Manuel [00:32:46]:

Chris, thank you, and it's an honor to be back. Thank you for having me back, but I can't wait To switch roles and have you as a guest on my podcast; I'm throwing down another gauntlet. Boom. So those that are listening, You make sure you follow up with Chris to make sure he's getting on my podcast too. Anyway, I can't wait to have you on to talk about being a father with daughters, but especially the organization that you've cofounded, Fathering Together, and some of the amazing things you're doing there because that is something that we all need to learn more about, and I can't wait to have you on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:18]:

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the Dads With resource for any dad who wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. The And the Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, an interactive forum, step-by-step road maps, and more, You will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out atfatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:04]:

Dad's with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters And be the best dad that you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:16]:

We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents. Bring your A-Game because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and musclemen. Get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

In a heartwarming and candid episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, the seasoned comedian Chris Zito shares his experiences, triumphs, and struggles as a father. From navigating through his daughter's remarkable accomplishments to supporting her through a significant life transition, Zito's journey as a dad is touching and inspiring. Join us as we delve into the insightful conversation with Chris Zito, exploring his approach to being a supportive father, a dedicated advocate, and a successful entertainer.

Becoming a Father at 19

Chris Zito's journey into fatherhood began at the tender age of 19. He openly discusses the initial fear he felt about not being capable of loving his child and the challenges that came with being a young parent. Zito's honest reflections shed light on the anxieties and uncertainties that many young fathers may face, emphasizing the importance of addressing these fears and embracing the journey of fatherhood with openness and resilience.

Navigating Fear and Challenges

As Chris Zito's children grew and reached different life phases, he grappled with ongoing fear and challenges. He discusses his unique approach to living with and understanding fear, highlighting the significance of staying present and acknowledging past successes in overcoming fear. Zito's wisdom is a source of encouragement for fathers who may be confronting their own fears and uncertainties in the parenting journey.

Unique Relationships with Each Child

One of the most endearing aspects of Chris Zito's story is the distinctive relationships he has built with each of his children. From a daughter living in an RV to a son living far away with two daughters of his own, Zito's ability to connect with his children under various circumstances is both heartening and relatable. His lighthearted approach to sharing jokes and experiences of fatherhood with his children serves as a reminder of the importance of maintaining strong, supportive connections with kids, regardless of the physical distance.

Supporting a Transgender Child

A poignant and significant part of Chris Zito's narrative revolves around his daughter's transition. Zito grappled with his initial reactions and fears, ultimately emphasizing the importance of support and understanding for his daughter's journey. He provides a candid glimpse into navigating medical appointments and finding a delicate balance of support and time for his daughter. Zito's experience shines a light on the complexities of parenthood, especially when it entails providing unwavering support for a child going through a significant life transition.

Balancing Comedy with Family Life

As a seasoned comedian, Chris Zito challenges incorporating his family's experiences into his stand-up material. He acknowledges the delicate balance between honesty and humor, especially when it comes to integrating his daughter's transition into his comedy. Zito's honest portrayal of this balance resonates with many fathers navigating similar professional and personal juggling acts.

Chris Zito's journey as a father encompasses a multitude of emotions, challenges, and triumphs. His resilience, unwavering support for his children, and candid storytelling serve as a source of inspiration for fathers everywhere. Through his experiences, Zito underscores the significance of being an engaged and supportive father, especially during adversity and change. His heartfelt anecdotes and wisdom on navigating fatherhood create a heartwarming and insightful narrative for Dads with Daughters listeners to embrace and appreciate.

This podcast episode sheds light on Chris Zito's personal experiences and invites fathers to contemplate their journey in raising strong, independent daughters. With humor, compassion, and unwavering dedication, Zito epitomizes the essence of fatherhood - a journey filled with love, challenges, and immeasurable growth.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]:

Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to actively participate in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, Independent Women. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, we're on a journey together. This is an opportunity for us to talk and work with one another. And every week, I love being able to sit down with you and talk about the journey you're on To raise your daughters. And I've mentioned this many times, but as you get older, as your kids get older, there are going to be those phases, those ebbs and flows, the ups and downs, and I love talking to you about this. It's important that we talk about this because there's no one right way to father. There are many ways that you can father, and you can learn about the many people around you, but also, every week, I love being able to have different dads joining us and different people who are joining us that can help you along that journey, and you can learn from them as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:20]:

This week, we got another great guest. Chris Zito is with us, and Doc. Chris is a father of 4. He definitely has kids that are grown and flown. We're gonna talk about that. But definitely, we're going to have some opportunities to learn from his own experience and help you in the journey that you're on. Chris, thanks so much for being here today.

Chris Zito [00:01:37]:

My absolute pleasure, Chris. Thanks for inviting me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:39]:

It is my pleasure having you here today. I love to start by first being able to have the power to turn the clock back in time. And wouldn't we all like that at at points in time? But I would love to have you go back to that 1st moment. That first moment that you found out you were going to be a dad to a daughter, what was going through your head?

Chris Zito [00:02:02]:

Well, first of all, I was 18 when I got that news. I was 19 when she was born. You know, I always joke that Dog. I went to college for 1 year. I majored in psychedelic drugs and got my girlfriend pregnant. So it was not the ideal way to begin fatherhood. Dom. But the other thing I always say about her is that she was unexpected but never unwanted.

Chris Zito [00:02:22]:

Because even growing up, Dog. I knew I wanted to be a father. I wanted to have my own family. I just didn't expect it to start as early as it did. And, of course, I also had no idea exactly what I was in for. Doug. I used to make this joke in my stand-up act about how her parents were freaking out. My parents were freaking out.

Chris Zito [00:02:39]:

She and I weren't even freaking out as much Docs. Because we had no idea. You know, I said to my dad, we're in love. We don't need money. He said, oh, that's great because you won't have any. And, of course, he was right; the poverty got boring in a hurry, but so that was hard. I didn't know that it was gonna be a girl until she was born. This was before gender reveal parties, and even people found out through ultrasound what the gender was gonna be. But so, for me, it was a typical first-time father.

Chris Zito [00:03:07]:

Doc, I had no preference. I wanted a healthy child, and so that's what we got. And I should work as I often as I do in just about every conversation. That Baby grew up and today has a Ph.D. Doctor Kagoshawl, as I often refer to her. That's her married name. And so I like to throw because I gotta tell you, Chris. When something like that happens, I blame the parents.

Chris Zito [00:03:27]:

Like, to take a little credit if something goes

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:29]:

right. Right? You definitely wanna do that and take credit where credit where you can, but also help to raise up your daughter and shout from the rooftops, Docs. When things are going well, especially in this world of social media, sometimes that's good, and sometimes that's bad. It's not always a good thing, you know when people tend to see only the positive things that are happening in people's lives, but, you know, it is something that we deal with. Now I know that; as you kinda said, you didn't know what you didn't know. And every dad goes through that as you go into it. And a lot of dads that I talk to talk to me about being fearful, Especially when it comes to having a daughter. So what was your biggest fear in raising daughters?

Chris Zito [00:04:11]:

Well, I can tell you that while her mother was pregnant. And I had never been a father before. I had this fear that I wouldn't love this kid. I mean, that was something that just kinda came out of nowhere. I honestly thought, well, what if the baby is born and I'm just kinda, nah, whatever? Now, of course, that was not the case. It was much more like love at first sight. It was an immediate connection. It was, as I'm sure you've heard a lot of fathers say, that's up there with the best days of my life, especially her because that's when I became a father.

Chris Zito [00:04:38]:

But, of course, I Dog. I had this feeling of wanting to protect her and wanting to the early part of her life because I'm a guy in recovery. I'm a recovering alcoholic, And I got sober when she was about 7 or 8. So the 1st part of her life, I wasn't as thoughtful of a father as I would become later on in her life. So a lot of times early in her life, my big fear was that, do I have enough booze in the house because they don't sell anything on Sunday? But I also had a lot of fear of financial insecurity, the Constantly chasing rent, and, I mean, we probably moved every year the 1st 5, 6 years of her life because the rent would go up, And then we'd go out and get a lousier apartment until things started to get better. And when I talk now to young dads, I talk a lot about that fear because I was a young kid. I was derailed in my college career. I didn't have a career.

Chris Zito [00:05:28]:

I was barely employable. We didn't have any money. But one of the things that I learned as years went by, and I've met so many fathers over the years. And now that I talk to dads, I find that that man becomes a father for the 1st time later in life. Let's say a guy's pushing 40, and he gets the news that he's gonna be a father. He has a career, some money in the bank, and a dog. And when I talk to these guys, they express the same fear that I remember having, and that's what I tell young dads. Like, it doesn't matter your circumstances.

Chris Zito [00:05:59]:

No, this fear is gonna come up because you always feel like, is it enough? Is it am I giving my kids enough? Am I gonna have enough? Are they gonna be well-fed? They're gonna be well dressed? Are they gonna be well educated? Are they gonna be well prepared to have a successful life? I mean, Those are huge questions. That's a really big thing, and that's what makes the job so important. Those are big, big questions.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:22]:

They are big questions, and I think every dad struggles with them. You know, your kid goes off after high school to whether it's to college, whether it's to trade, whether it's to work, And you start to see them spreading their wings a bit, and there's a fear at different points in your kids' lives. The fear that you have when your child is first born, as they go to school for the 1st time, as they get into middle school, as they get into high school, as they go off into college, the Each of those phases, each of those times in their life, the fear is just a little bit different. And then as you're I'm I'm sure, and you can you can the Talk to this a lot more than I can right now. Once your child gets beyond high school and whether they've gone to college or not, then They go out on their own for the 1st time. There's more fear. And so I think that fear doesn't just end for a parent. It's always there.

Chris Zito [00:07:18]:

Well, that's why I mean, I feel like, you know, we're never gonna be able to eliminate those fears completely. So what I tried to learn how to do, and I learned a lot of this in recovery, is learning about what causes the fear, how to live with the fear, and how to diminish the fear. And the thing about fear is that everybody that you meet, when I talk to dads about their fears, I maybe don't know their specific fear, but I know where it lives because all fear lives in the future. Everything we've ever been afraid of, it's always something that hasn't happened yet. So one of the first things I point out to these dads is we're here together tonight. Every fear you've ever experienced, whether it came true or not, every disaster, every catastrophe, every emergency, every difficult situation you've ever faced, you made it through. You made it through all of those, and the evidence is that you're sitting. We're all here together tonight.

Chris Zito [00:08:04]:

So we've all made it this far, and that's something that's important to remember when a fear pops up In my day, so first of all, talk a little bit about mindfulness. I don't like to use that word because it kinda conjures up this sort of DATSON. It seems so complicated, but the way I put it is, I'd like to keep my head where my feet are. And so then I'm living in the now. So if I'm in the now, what's gonna happen next, dogs? It isn't as fearful. Doesn't create that fear. The fear comes when I'm thinking about what's gonna happen next so much.

Chris Zito [00:08:33]:

But if I'm the Keeping my head where my feet are, it's not gonna happen as much. I can stop, and I can pause, and I can remember all the evidence that's behind me that tells me I'm gonna be able the get through whatever's coming next. And that's immensely important to remember. It's so easy to forget when the fear comes up that, oh, yeah. I faced this fear before, and guess what? And you know what? Everything worked out. Maybe not the way I thought it would, but we're still here. So that's the good news.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:58]:

That is the good news. Now I mentioned at the beginning that you've 4 kids. Each one of your children is different from one another, and they come, as you talked to me before, from 2 different marriages. And so every father with multiple kids has to be able to develop those relationships in unique ways and maintain those relationships, the has to build them throughout their kids' lives and maintain them throughout their kids' lives. Talk to me about what you had to do as your kids were growing, but even now that they're adults, you have had to do to be able to build those unique relationships with each of your children.

Chris Zito [00:09:33]:

Well, they all live in such different situations, too, So it sorta comes naturally. Like doctor Coggeshall, who I mentioned, she and her husband sold their house, and they bought an RV. And they live in an RV. They both work, Doc. Remotely. They're both well-educated. They're both professionals, but they work remotely. And so they live in this RV.

Chris Zito [00:09:51]:

It's like them in an RV park, And they're the only ones under 70. You know? Almost the only ones under 70. And so whenever I talk to her, it's about that life that she's chosen, And she just sounds so happy doing it. It just blows my mind. I get off the phone with her. I guess she just sounds so happy. You can't ask for more than that. Now my son, who's about to turn 40, has two daughters.

Chris Zito [00:10:14]:

He's given me two granddaughters. Now that's the great news. The bad news is they live in Pensacola, Florida, and I live in Massachusetts, Dog. I get to see them that often. And he and I talk a lot about being a dad. He's the only one of my children that has children, and so I always joke with them. You know? I always tell them, you know what, Ben? You gotta remember. You come from a long line of dads.

Chris Zito [00:10:35]:

So make sure that you're, you know, I mean, the name of my podcast, and my talk is Doc. Like it's your job, and so we talk a lot about fatherhood. It was typical. I had that same experience when I became a father. My relationship, the way I saw my father, changed dramatically quickly once I became a father. So he and I talk a lot about His daughters and the younger one I hear from all the time. With today's technology, she sends me these videos on Facebook Messenger, and she'll reach out. And we FaceTime all the time.

Chris Zito [00:11:06]:

The other one just turned 14, and she has about as much time for me as she has for a dad. So now the ones that are home, my daughter Mackenzie is the 23. She's about to graduate from college. Her big concern is trying to find a job in her field and maybe move out. And so my wife and I tried to reassure her. We don't have a calendar where there's no clock ticking. You know what I mean? I think she feels like the day after she walks to get a degree, her bags are gonna be packed at the front door, so we try to reassure her because I don't know if you've looked at rents out there or you know. I mean, it's it's hard for kids to get out on their own. It's harder than ever.

Chris Zito [00:11:41]:

And then, the baby is a senior in high school, and she is openly trans. She came out to us about a little over two years ago, And she is just now starting her medical transition. So when you see her, she sort of presents as gender nonconforming, but Dog. She is, and she just signed with a modeling agency because she's 6 feet tall and 140 pounds, so she's built like a runway model and has long, Thick, wavy hair. And so she's been navigating a lot of that, and that's a lot of our conversations are just making sure that She gets to her medical appointments, that all of that stuff is covered, that she understands everything that's happened, that we all understand each other, that she continues to get that sort of support the Hey. We're with you. We don't use her dead name. We had pictures of her when she was little Vincent, and I've asked her multiple times, hey.

Chris Zito [00:12:35]:

You want me to get rid of these pictures? Dom. Because that's something that because we've, you know, studied up on this, and I don't know. She's very patient with us. She's very relaxed about that sort of stuff. I think that she's kind of like, no. That's, that's that was me. That was me. I'm okay with those pictures.

Chris Zito [00:12:51]:

So those are the kind of things that we deal with a lot with her. And then, of course, the usual high school Duff. How are your grades? When are you gonna be home? Who are you gonna be with? Trans or not, she's an 18-year-old girl, and so there's still a lot of those same concerns.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:04]:

So talk to me about that because you had 3 other children that conform to the gender that they were at birth. Dog. You have a 4th child that throws a little bit of a curveball, and you and your spouse have figured that out and have worked through that. But others who may be just starting this process may be trying to figure it out for themselves. What does that mean for our family? How do we best support our child? You know, what can we do to be there for them? What did you have to do to be able to get to the point where you're at now . I can see I mean, you are supporting your child. You're supporting who they are, who they're becoming. It may not have started there, But that's where you've ended in the end.

Chris Zito [00:13:48]:

You know, for us, my wife and I, we almost immediately started walking this tightrope of giving her as much support as we could muster but also taking our time, and that was our big concern. Well, we don't wanna rush into this. What we found out very quickly is that there is no rushing into this. Doc. If you have an adolescent that's transgender, there is no rushing in. There has to be a therapist in place. There has to be a pediatrician, a primary care physician, and a pediatrician. There has to be a neuro-psych evaluation.

Chris Zito [00:14:16]:

There have to be preliminary meetings with a pediatric endocrinologist. And if you've ever even tried to get an appointment with your primary care physician. You can imagine that all these appointments and developing a relationship with all these different people takes time, And so there was a lot of time where we sort of eased into this. The other thing that I found, this is the thing that I'm probably least proud of about all, is that one of the things that we always have to remember when something's happening to our child is that it's happening to them because I have a tendency the take on what's happening to my children like it's happening to me, and it isn't. And so when v came out as transgender, I remember thinking, jeez. You couldn't just come out as gay. I've been waiting since you were, like, 5 years old to tell me that you're gay because people barely raise an eyebrow. And it seems like transgender now is a hot-button issue.

Chris Zito [00:15:06]:

If you go back to 2000, marriage equality was a big issue in that presidential election. That was the big Culture war wedge issue. And right now, as we're sitting here, transgender youth is the big wedge issue, You. And there's so much misinformation and so much fear and so much confusion about it. So I was so afraid for her, and I still am. I'm always afraid that she's going to be bullied or harassed. We're very fortunate that we live in Massachusetts. I mean, you can't sell a health insurance policy in my state unless it covers gender-affirming care.

Chris Zito [00:15:44]:

That's how progressive the state is. And so we feel very safe. In that way, we feel that our government is not gonna be attacking us. We don't live in fear that our state legislature will pass the Laws that will make it illegal for Vida to get the care that she's already begun. And because we've also had the experience That almost textbook when you read about what the medical associations have found out about transgender kids is the This was a kid that was sullen, alone, depressed, self-harming, ended up doing inpatient treatment, suicidal ideation. Today, this is a kid that's relaxed, smiles easily, great sense of humor, excels in school, good friend. Everything you would want for your teenage kid, that's what's happening with this kid now. Self-assured and confident.

Chris Zito [00:16:32]:

She is a powerful example to me because part of what I experienced was I felt like I had to come out Because I was afraid to share this information with certain friends of mine because I knew that if they reacted a certain way, I'd lose them. I was afraid that I would share with a buddy of mine. Oh, well, when they asked about Vincent, oh, Vincent is now v. Vincent has come out as transgender, and and v is a a girl now. Dog. And if they reacted poorly to that or didn't support it, I knew that I would lose that person. Now I can happily say that Dog. So far, that hasn't happened, and I had to live with that fear.

Chris Zito [00:17:08]:

That was a new fear that I had to live with. And then I had, but I also had to remember, like, the I don't have to come out because it's her. She's the one that has to come out. She's the one that has to live with us. Watching her maneuver And live her life, and it's something to see. She does it. And, well, what can I say? She's my kid, so I'm a little biased, I guess, but she's a badass.

Chris Zito [00:17:31]:

I'll tell you that. She really is.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:33]:

So talk to me a little bit about that maneuvering when you talk about having to come out yourself and be able to share your own truth and your child's truth to people around you, but you also are in a very public profession. You are a radio host. You are a dad. You are an individual who is doing stand-up comedy. You know, people know of you, know your person, your persona that they know on, the You know, the radio waves, and they get a certain perspective of who you are, and they box you in that way. You now become the advocate for your child in your own life, but at the same time, you've got a part of yourself that people don't know. So talk to me about that journey that you had to go on and kind of the reaction that you've received from your friends, the public, etcetera as people start to to learn more about your own life.

Chris Zito [00:18:34]:

Well, it's an interesting thing. My relationship with my listeners is a really interesting thing Because radio is such a personal medium. I mean, when I'm on the air in the morning, most of the people who are listening are sitting in the car by themselves, and it's just us. And it feels very personal. And, of course, I'm a typical morning radio host. I talk a lot about my wife, Elizabeth. When I do the up she's with me. People will be like, oh my god.

Chris Zito [00:18:58]:

You're Elizabeth. And they will ask her about certain incidents I've discussed on the air. Dar. She's kind of gotten used to that over the years that she knows that people are gonna think they know her, you know, because of the stories that I tell. And so they think they know me too. And when I'm on the air, it's a version of myself. It's very close to my real life when I'm on the air in the morning. My stand-up is a little different.

Chris Zito [00:19:19]:

You know? Comedians notoriously lie for comedic effect, whether it's an exaggeration or whether it's a complete fabrication. I mean, I have stuff in my life. That is, you know, everything I do is told in the 1st person when I do my stand-up, but some of it's a complete lie. It never happened. You know? I mean, that's the classic thing. You know? The comedian gets on stage. Hey. A funny thing happened to me on the way over here. Nothing happened on the way over here.

Chris Zito [00:19:45]:

Nothing. I drove here, and I got here, and everything is fine. But so that's why sometimes, with Vi, I don't talk about having a transgender child in my stand-up act Docs. It's just because I haven't figured that out yet. I haven't figured out how to be honest and funny about it at the same time. The closest thing I found is that quip about saying you couldn't just come out as gay. I think there's something there about how this is now the thing that's got people upset. Whereas you go back 25 years. For 30 years, it was the same thing with kids coming out as gay. And I don't know.

Chris Zito [00:20:18]:

I feel like so often in my act, I don't mention the All the kids, or I'd use sorta generic pronouns for v. But I also still have this stuff about living with a 16-year-old boy and what that's like. About how 16-year-old boys have nothing to say. You know, sleeping with a 16-year-old boy could be like an oak tree. Oh, what a sparkling conversationalist. And that stuff, sometimes I still use those jokes because It just is, and that's always been when I talk about my kids in my stand-up act, there's always a lag, you know, because I have these jokes about them that I know work, and people are paying to laugh. And so I do the stuff that I know they're gonna laugh at, and there's a lag because I just don't. I don't have a 3 or 5-minute chunk of funny stuff about My youngest being transgender. I just don't have it yet.

Chris Zito [00:21:02]:

And until I do, I won't be doing that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:05]:

In talking about standing up in that regard, I mean having to the humor in life around you. You know, there are definitely things in life where there is humor, and you can bring that real-life aspect. But the As you said, comedians can lie about that as well to bring in the dramatic or humor into the act itself. Talk to me about reality versus the lie, we'll say, in how your kids have been a part of your stand-up and how much they want to be a part of the stand-up.

Chris Zito [00:21:41]:

You know that it's funny that you asked that because they all have different reactions to that, depending on what I key in on. Yeah. Like, with my son, I talk about how he was destructive growing up. He still comes over to my house and breaks stuff. The kid owes me money. Ate me out of the house and home. So it's not exactly where his older sister, I talk about how she grew up and got a PhD. Dog.

Chris Zito [00:22:03]:

So he's like, really? You keep there's nothing about me, dad, that so but now, the Like with my 23-year-old, there was an incident that happened where the bit almost wrote itself, and it's a bit that absolutely crushes. It was probably 2 years ago now. Now, see, it's another late in my act; it's always a few months ago. She dragged us into the kitchen. You know? This is the idea of living with a kid this age that's almost done with college. You're not gonna ground her. She's technically an adult. She has her own money, and this actually happened.

Chris Zito [00:22:31]:

She pulled her mom and me into the kitchen. She opened the fridge. She goes, I wanna show you guys something. Do you see that yogurt? I put my initials on that yogurt because I bought it with my own money. And so my wife and I kinda looked at each other and smiled. My wife goes, well, honey, maybe Dad and I put our initials on all the other food in the refrigerator. How would that be? And then, of course, that's what happened. And so in the in the act, I say, I have a better idea.

Chris Zito [00:22:52]:

I'm gonna put my initials right on the fridge, Dodge. And then I had a real brainstorm. I'll just put my initials on the front door of the house. How do you like me now? And then she changed her tune and said, you guys can have some of my yogurt if you want. So, but that is based on an actual thing that happened, and you know? So it's really just a little bit of it. It just extrapolates it. You know? Play it out to the A little further than it went. And as embarrassing as you might think that is for her, she's been to my show a couple of times with girlfriends of Hers, and she's, like, nudging them.

Chris Zito [00:23:19]:

Like, this is it. This is the joke I was telling you about. That's, this is me. That's me. That really happened. So she's pretty excited about it. And for Vi, I tend to not do the stuff about the 17-year-old boy if if she's in the audience. I just leave that out, or I do something.

Chris Zito [00:23:32]:

I have other stuff that's about her that I just use, they or just I just avoid the pronouns. So although she's told me straight, she's very open. She's like she's she's like, you can talk To anybody you want about the fact that I'm trans. Anybody you want. She's very open about it. So that's what I mean. She's a power of example. She's probably more open about it than I am.

Chris Zito [00:23:52]:

Doug.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:52]:

So you are a busy guy. You are people know you, like I said, publicly, and they know your voice, But then they may know you in person in that regard too, or they feel like they know you, but you are busy, and you're wearing a lot of hats. You're doing a lot of things. You've got the podcast. You've got your radio show, you've got your standup. You know, you're you're doing a lot of different different things. You're hustling, and you're busy. So talk to me about as you had your kids, as they were getting older, how did you balance all of that and find that balance in your life To be able to be that engaged dad that you wanted to be. Well, for me, that's just a matter of where my priorities lie because that's one of the things that I Never talk about is work, life balance. It's not just because that's there are a gazillion speakers out there talking about work-life balance. I don't believe in work-life balance. I talk about the Life work balance. I flip it around. In fact, when I first had this thought, when I was developing this talk and the idea for the podcast, I thought about life-work balance. So I just Googled life-work balance, and you know what came up? One million pages about work-life balance.

Chris Zito [00:24:59]:

So when you look at the phrase work, like balance, it literally puts work first, and so that's why I think it's important to flip it around. And I know that it's made a difference in my career because of the priorities that I've set. Over the years, my oldest daughter growing up, we'd be watching TV. I'd see a comedian on TV that's Doc. His own special or, you know, here you know, it's, is there he is on TV on a sitcom? And I would say, hey. I know that guy. That guy featured for me when I used to travel when you were really little before I got into radio, and I was traveling, headlining comedy clubs, this guy middled for me. And she would say to me one time, she finally told me, Dad, how come you know all these guys on TV, but you're not on TV?

Chris Zito [00:25:35]:

I laughed, and I said, because of you. Okay? It's because of you. And it's because I chose to the Get into this radio career so that I could still make people laugh and sleep in my own bed every night so that I could be around for my kids. You know, when my grown kids were growing up, I mean, I coached little league. I coached basketball, sort of. I didn't really coach basketball. I was just there kind of as the Wrangling children because I don't really know basketball, but I was active in my church. I taught Sunday school.

Chris Zito [00:26:07]:

I was, like, the acolyte director at this 1 church For a while, you know, so I was, involved with my kids, and the kids that I have now, I mean, well, my daughter, neither one of them are athletes, but my 23 year old daughter played the Topball in high school. I showed up at those games, and that I'm I'm very fortunate because of the radio job. It's morning radio, so I'm done by early afternoon. And listen. There's been there's plenty of days where I'm really dragging ass by dinner time because I get up at a ridiculous hour to do my regular job. But the other thing that is so important to remember, I think, is that this idea of showing up for your kids is a relatively short time if you look at your whole life. And my thing is that those crowd clickers that you get that you see the like, when you're young and going to nightclubs, you'd see the doorman use it to count heads. And to me, it's sorta like when you have a baby, the universe gives you one of those, but it has a big number on it, or it seems like a big number.

Chris Zito [00:27:03]:

And every time you show up for your kid, you click the And the number goes down. And, well, guess what? Eventually, the number gets to 0, and they're gone. There's no more showing up to do. You're hoping they'll let you show up, You know, because they have their own life and they're busy and, you know, you hope you have a decent relationship with them and you have their love and respect, they still want you to be a part of their life.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:21]:

Doug. So true. And it does go by very fast. And, hopefully, by the time your kids leave the house, you have created an atmosphere and a relationship with them that will be maintained and continued as they get older, as you get older, because that's important. That doesn't mean that you can't change the relationship so that if it's not where you want it to be when they first go off to graduate school or so on and so forth, but that it can change, and you can change it, and you can put more effort in To be able to rebuild that relationship. So I always put that out there as well. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood five, where we ask the Five more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Chris Zito [00:28:07]:

I'm ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:08]:

In one word, what is fatherhood?

Chris Zito [00:28:10]:

Commitment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:11]:

Now when was a time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Chris Zito [00:28:17]:

Oh, maybe when I watched the oldest one walk for that PhD. Although, I mean, I joke that I blame the parents with her, but, honestly, she is a self-made woman. I wasn't there footing the bill. Doug. She worked all the way through undergrad and graduate school, worked the entire time. And, I mean, She worked her tail off, so I don't know. Maybe the best contribution I gave her was the work ethic. You know? Understanding that, you know, you could just keep your eyes on that goal.

Chris Zito [00:28:44]:

I'll tell you something else. There was another time when the 23-year-old was not the guy that she was with now but a guy that she was with previously. When she broke up with this guy and why she broke up with him, I felt like, wow. She is standing up for her own values and refusing Doc. To be treated a certain way, she has strong boundaries around what she'll accept and what she won't, and I took some credit for that. She gets a lot of that from her mom. Dog. Mom is somebody with strong boundaries, so that was good stuff.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:14]:

Now, if I were to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

Chris Zito [00:29:18]:

Present, I hope. Funny. They would definitely describe me as funny because I get more laughs from my kids than most dads do. I think to present the Patient. I think the ones that are living in the house now might say, patient. My older ones, maybe not as much. I was younger, and I didn't have any money. I was Scared about the landlord back then, which put me gave me a shorter fuse than I have now.

Chris Zito [00:29:41]:

But so, hopefully, the ones that are coming of age now would stay patient.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:44]:

Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Chris Zito [00:29:46]:

Well, Doc. You touched on a tough one there for me because it's my own father who's gone. So I think that it's a special thing for me because I am in recovery, Dog. And I was a guy that when I was still a drunk, an active drunk, I had complete indifference towards this guy. And then, eventually, Doc. Through my recovery, he became the best guy I knew, and it wasn't because of a big transformation that he went through. Let's put it that way. So we got to be very close later in his life, and he lived to be almost 96.

Chris Zito [00:30:19]:

And boy, oh, boy. That was the December of 2019, he passed. So I don't know if your parents are still around, but mine are gone, and it's I don't expect to ever get over it. I just have learned to live with it. But when I still talk to him sometimes, and I I try to think of what he would do or what he would say.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:38]:

You know, I think just like you said earlier, when it comes to the fleeting time with your kids, as you get older, you have to remember that time with your own parents is fleeting, and we don't know how long we have. And I think that that is important to understand as well because I think that for anyone that has living parents, if your relationship is not strong and they're getting older, Revisit it and try to see if there's any way to salvage it. You know, sometimes that's not a possibility, but Sometimes there is. Being able to have that parent in your life As you can and as you will is important and will continue to be important as you get older.

Chris Zito [00:31:25]:

100%. I couldn't agree more. And I I've known men that have not been able to get to that place before their own father passed, and it's a tough one.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:34]:

And you've talked a lot about A lot of different things that you've learned along the way. As we finish up today, what's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Chris Zito [00:31:42]:

Well, you know, Docs. Still, for my own talk, one of the last things I say is to remind guys to dad like it's your job because it is your job. When you go off to work, that's your side hustle. I mean, it's so important to provide for your family and be a part of your family. You know, this idea of the dad that's, You know, that old cliche that it's probably 75 years ago of the dad that comes home from work, sits down, he's reading the paper, or he's the watching sports, and he doesn't really even know his kids or where you know, which one's which or where they go to school or what. That's not what it was like when I was growing up in my house. Even though my father was of that generation, he's a World War 2 veteran, but he was a very devoted dad, a very loving father. I think maybe because my mom Dom was sort of sickly.

Chris Zito [00:32:29]:

He had to step in and do a lot more parenting than other men of his generation. So that's what I would say be engaged with your kids because It's so great. It's so great to get to know them, and there's nothing like it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:42]:

I love it. You mentioned your own podcast. And you mentioned the fact that you're a radio host as well. People wanna find out more about you and what you're doing. Where should they go?

Chris Zito [00:32:52]:

Go to ChrisZitoSpeaks.com. That's where they can find out everything about me as far as my speaking career. There are little excerpts from the talk. There's a video on there. There are some testimonials. Meals. There's a way to reach out to me if you wanna book me to give a talk. Chriszitospeaks.com.

Chris Zito [00:33:07]:

If you wanna hear the radio show, I mean, if you wanna hear me cracking wise talking between songs Dogs the kids are dancing too, then you could just go to the go to the Iheartradio app and just search my name, and my show will come up, and you can listen at any time. You can listen to Dog. Anywhere in the world, Chris. That address, again, the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:24]:

Oh, and you do have the podcast as well, and people can find that.

Chris Zito [00:33:27]:

Yeah. The pod is called Dad Like Your Job. It's available on the iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcast. Dad Like It's Your Job publishes every Thursday. As we're recording this, the latest issue The latest episode features you. So there you go. So check that out.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:43]:

Well, Chris, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here for everything that you're doing to support your own kids, to be a great example for other dads, and to challenge and help other dads Along their journey, and I wish you all the best.

Chris Zito [00:33:57]:

Same here, Chris. I really appreciate the invitation. It's great to talk to you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:01]:

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, an interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more. You will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together .org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:47]:

Dad's with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters And be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. we buy the presents. Bring your A-game because those kids are growing fast, the time goes by just like a dynamite blast, calling astronauts and Firemen, carpenters, and musclemen get out and be in the world. Choose and Be the best dad you can be.

In this episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, host Christopher Lewis welcomes Sean Harvey, the Chief Compassion Officer and founder of the Warrior Compassion Men's Studio. Sean is passionate about helping men heal their wounds at a soul level to embrace the truth of who they are. He co-founded Project Compassion, a coalition of culture transformation, masculinity, and compassion experts, focusing on working with police departments and military services. Sean recently released his book, "Warrior Compassion: Unleashing the Healing Power of Men," which serves as a roadmap for men's soul healing and systems change.

Sean shares his journey into men's work, a 10-year transformational path that started when he worked for Eileen Fisher, a women's fashion company. He discusses the impact of the company's feminine leadership on men and how it led him to engage in men's work. He also emphasizes the importance of a soul-level approach to healing and compassion, acknowledging that men need to heal unmet needs, limiting beliefs, and past traumas.

Christopher and Sean talk about breaking down barriers related to words like "vulnerability" and "compassion," emphasizing the need for an environment where men feel safe to open up. Sean highlights the importance of self-compassion and loving oneself unconditionally as a catalyst for positive change within families.

They discuss Sean's book and its guided journey, outlining various components of healing and transformation. The book is an on-ramp for men to engage in meaningful conversations and contribute to the transformation of society's oppressive systems. Sean encourages men to find a community where they can go deep and connect with others to combat loneliness and isolation.

In their conversation, they explore how embracing deeper connections, intimacy, and love can lead to healing and transformation, allowing men to become more patient, reflective, and present fathers. They also stress the significance of having a community of men who check in on each other.

This episode reinforces the importance of community, compassion, and self-discovery as essential steps for men on their journey to becoming the best dads they can be and healing themselves in the process.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, you and I are on a journey together. We're figuring this out as we go along. There is no one right way to father, and there's not one right way to go through life as a man as well. And, You know, every week, we have opportunities to be able to talk about this, to be able to delve a little bit deeper into this, to see what each of us can do to be Engaged, present, and be a part of our family's lives. And I do that. We do that Through talking with other guests as well.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:01]:

And every week, I have the pleasure of bringing different people on with different Experiences coming from different walks of life that are able to provide you with Tools for your own toolbox that can help you to start thinking about things in different ways and potentially framing things in different ways that will help you To be better in all sense of the word. This week, we've got another great guest with us. Shawn Harvey is with us. And Sean is the chief compassion officer and founder of the Warrior Compassion Men's Studio And Symphonia Facilitator Studio. And he is actively involved in contributing to men's work communities around the globe And he's passionate about helping men heal their wounds at a soul level to begin to love the truth of who they are. Sean cofounded the, Project Compassion, a national coalition of culture transformation, masculinity, and compassion experts Developing a compassion centered system change model and consulting approach for police departments and federal law enforcement agencies, Military service security forces and defense. And most recently, he has a brand new book called Warrior Compassion, Unleashing the healing power of men that was just released, and this book really offers a road map for men's soul healing As a catalyst for systems change. I'm really excited to have him on to talk more about the journey that he's been on to help men around the world And about this brand new book, and I'm excited to have him here today.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:46]:

Sean, thanks so much for being here.

Sean Harvey [00:02:48]:

Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:50]:

It is my pleasure having you here today. Love what you're doing. Love the the the concept. Like, I wanna turn the clock back in time because You've done a lot of different things that have led you to where you are today. You and I you and I were talking about all the different degrees and all the different aspects and all the things you've done in your career. But I guess first and foremost, as I talked about the fact that that you are the chief compassion officer and founder of Warrior Compassion Men's studio. So talk to me about Warrior Compassion Men's Studio and this work that you've been doing over many years to Work with men at this, maybe I could even say visceral level of being able to talk to men About things that not every man wants to talk about. What led you to that, and what led you into working with men at this level?

Sean Harvey [00:03:39]:

Well, I, I appreciate the years you've added to the experience. This has really been a 10 year journey. So on my 40th birthday, I was I was As a college professor, I was working on Wall Street. And on my 40th birthday, I gave it all up because I lost my heart and soul in the job, and I resigned. And within 2 weeks, I went to work for a fashion company, Eileen Fisher. And it was there that my whole life turned upside down. It was like it basically Saying yes to that role changed the trajectory of my life and brought me to men's work. So actually working in a women's fashion company brought me to men, which Hey.

Sean Harvey [00:04:16]:

Hey. I think there were 3 pivotal moments in my experience at Eileen Fisher. 1, I just to get the job, I had gone through an 8 month interview process. And on my 1st day I started the job, my 2 bosses sat me down, and they said they said to me, Sean, we we wanna acknowledge that You have proven yourself in the interview process. We now want you to stop proving yourself and learn how to be who you actually are. When you interviewed with us, you showed us your heart, and you showed us your polish. We hired you for your heart, and we wanna see less of your polish. We don't care about your accomplishments.

Sean Harvey [00:04:49]:

We wanna see who you are. And so that really, I think, was permission to be able to start going on my own journey. Then they the company sent me to an art for 5 months in Canada To learn how to incorporate the arts in a creative facilitation, and so it's part of my work. And it was the 1st weekend that I was there that I really heard the call to work with men. And and I and I had gone to work for Eileen Fisher to not have to work with men ever again. So knowing that I was being called to work with men. I knew this was above my pay grade, and I knew this was on some sort of spiritual path, and it was more of a calling. And so I just started following the spiritual breadcrumbs.

Sean Harvey [00:05:30]:

And the third, I became the head of personal transformation and well-being for the company. And I started noticing in the company how men were being transformed by being in an organization, in a company that was 83% women, That was really built on feminine leadership and and the business model was based on feminine energy. And the men would say to me now we would talk about the ways we were changing, It would often start with either my wife said or my girlfriend said that I listen differently. I'm more patient. I stopped needing to do right all the time, and I started to be more curious. I started to express my emotions more freely. And they the men started noticing that they were tapping into their creativity differently, and they were solving problems in new ways. And last, and I think most important, they would tell me they felt more comfortable in their own skin because I think there's a freedom that was allowing men to just kinda come into who they really were.

Sean Harvey [00:06:22]:

And I said, you know, we need to kinda bottle this and take this out to more men as opposed to the 200 men that work in this company we only accounted for 17% of the organization. And so with that and and there were also a lot of spiritual teachers and guides, and there was A lot of spirituality at work. I knew if we're gonna do real work with men, that's gonna be healing work. It had to be done at the soul level, and that's what led me to seminary. And I went to seminary for the sole purpose of working with men and really creating a men's ministry of sorts, which is essentially what I'm doing. And 2 days after I said my vows, I received the next call, which was to work with police. So I was moving from New York to Asheville, North Carolina, From East Harlem, New York to West Asheville, North Carolina. And it was the chief of police of the Asheville Police Department.

Sean Harvey [00:07:09]:

There's a video that I received, and then it was Post George Floyd, there was a there was a Black Lives Matter protest. Police were called in. They destroyed a medic tent. They made national news, and this was a Call to reform the department and if if members of the community wanted to be part of police reform efforts. I emailed the next day because in seminar, they say when you hear the call, you say yes no matter what, even if you don't think you're qualified. But because of my credentials and my background, that led to a 1 on 1 with the chief of police. And In our conversation, he asked me 2 things. He had 2 asks.

Sean Harvey [00:07:42]:

Can I help him deepen the level of compassion for his officers? And can I create conversations between community members and officers that humanize each other for a new relationship going forward? And I said yes It's what I do. And that ask led to a group of us finding each other. And the, you know, members of the FBI, Someone on our team is the former head of the FBI National Academy at Quantico, military officers, culture experts, masculinity folks, And we all came together and formed this national initiative. And as I had started coming into the men's work and started to see that this was My area, you know, working with police, military, defense, and working with really, when I left Asheville moved to DC, and everyone that was reaching out to me, they were they were operating they were working in hypermasculine systems. So police, military, the NFL, all of these places that you could consider male dominated, traditionally masculine or hypermasculine, And really bringing this message of compassion into the fold. And I think at the at the root of of the healing, you call it soul healing, you call it compassionate healing, What is how to help men deepen their level of compassion?

Christopher Lewis [00:08:59]:

Let's talk about that a little bit because sometimes for men, words can be triggering When you talk about being vulnerable, being compassionate, using some words can throw up roadblocks in front of us As men. And some of that comes from the way that we grew up. Some of it's society. There's lots of different pieces. So Talk to me about in the work that you do, either 1 on 1 or with groups. How do you start to break down those barriers that those words potentially Can build so that you get to the inner core and the inner person underneath.

Sean Harvey [00:09:43]:

So I would agree that these words can be triggering, and I'm very intentional about the language I use. And because I believe Language can be used to reclaim and reframe. And so if it is trigger triggering or activating, I get curious about what that's about. But at the same time, I I think part of it, For me, that allows me to come into the spaces is is is a combination of energy, the energy I bring in, the invitation I offer, The approach that I take and my story. And I've been able to go to some of the Craziest communities or or or wildest communities where I would not expect to be received, and I'm able to be Dave, I'm able to be heard. In the probably 7 years 7 or 8 years I've been doing this, not 1 person has ever objected to what I'm saying. I've never gotten feed pushback on the message. And I think part of that is my approach.

Sean Harvey [00:10:41]:

I think part of that is that I speak to the yearning of men that they can't articulate. And I think it's something that men are often craving yearning yearning for. And then when given the right that they can hear, there's a receptivity. I found early on, it's not about the head on collision. It's the drive by. When I've gone to the direct jugular of the issue, That doesn't usually bring bring folks in. But if there's an opening that guys can see themselves in and I think where we are, especially because I I am a I am a queer, progressive New Yorker who works with conservatives and then the right wing echo chamber. And I work with From conservatives to white nationalists and far right extremists on their healing work.

Sean Harvey [00:11:26]:

And the common thing I hear is that they find me nonthreatening, and they feel safe opening up. So that becomes less about the words I use and more the environment I create For them to be able to feel safe enough to be able to start to explore. And I and I think the other pieces and I I think a lot of a lot of what I've seen And a lot of this type of work is someone showing you the way, which I think can we're like a man to constrict. This is the way to be a man. This is what manhood is. This is the definition of masculinity, and I don't do any of that. I come from a place of I mean, as a professor, I was always using Socratic method. I'm just Always asking the questions.

Sean Harvey [00:12:07]:

And I believe this is more of an inquiry that for each man to define The definitions for himself based on his own experience, and, also, this is really the work of helping him find his own truth, Not for him to acquiesce to a narrative or a truth that defines sin, where we've had enough folks Giving us in a society, giving us definitions of the should, of how we should be. And I am always saying, let's just break the script and say, alright. So Who are you? And those sorts of things, I think, just create openings for the conversation and also is has to do a lot of bridge building across the conservative and progressive divides. And coming in without an agenda has opened a lot of doors to be able to have those types of conversations.

Christopher Lewis [00:12:56]:

So one of the things I probably should have asked at the beginning is that you work on healing. Define for me what your definition of healing is and why the men that you're working with or many men may need some healing in their life.

Sean Harvey [00:13:14]:

When I was writing the book and we were coming up with the title, the book was written out of out of a program at Georgetown. And we talked about this, that For a lot of men, they're hearing the message that they have to change because something's broken. They're broken. Something's broken. And we, you know, we said, no. That's not what it is. Many men are wounded because we're human. The challenge is a lot of us are wounded, but we don't have access to the healing.

Sean Harvey [00:13:40]:

We don't have access to the ways of connecting, reaching out for self care. When we look at the rates of suicide addiction, violence, Depression, trauma. The numbers for men are are continue to rise and are typically Double or triple more than women. And at the same time, when we start to look at them for police and and military and vets, Those numbers even go higher. And so I think it's that the healing is and what I I define it in the book, healing our our unmet needs, Our limiting beliefs and our shadow. And the traumas we've experienced, the wounds that we faced from early in in our lives as well as Things that happen or the experiences we've had in our lives that we just keep going and and don't deal with it, don't dwell on it, And don't give attention to it and think that everything will be fine. And the reality is it carries with us. So my book really reflects my healing journey, and then I really dissected all the different components from my healing journey That I can be think could be helpful for men could be anything from connecting to nature, finding community with men, Learn relearning how to play to, you know, ex exploring psychedelics, healing the inner child wounds, healing the You know, the list goes on and on of what I incorporate into the book, but it's really just offering a road map of these are different ways you can think about Healing, and you can really be in an inquiry for yourself of what's gonna help you discover your own truth beyond the protective layers that you've created From conditioning and life in general.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:20]:

I know you work with all types of men. Some are fathers, some are not. For the men that you work with that Our fathers, how do you find that this work helps them to be Either more engaged or more present or more themselves within that family dynamic.

Sean Harvey [00:15:40]:

I think it's the first thing I said about How what men say how they were transformed Ryan Fisher. They become more patient. They're more patient with their kids. They're more patient with their wives or or partners. They listen differently with with a different level of of understanding. They have an ability to self manage their anger. They're more reflective. And, Ultimately, I believe this work is about deepening your own.

Sean Harvey [00:16:03]:

When we talk about deepening compassion, what what I'm really talking about 1st, starting with your own self compassion. And, ultimately, what this book is about is helping men learn to love in a new way from and, I just gave a sermon last week. It was called From Love With Conditions to Unconditional Love. And when you can move from an intellectualized version of love with conditions To a visceral experience of unconditional love, that's gonna have a ripple effect in your family and for everyone in your family.

Christopher Lewis [00:16:31]:

We've been talking about the the book that is out now, Warrior Compassion unleashing the healing power of men. And I know in that book, it is a guided journey. It's It's talking about your own experience, but also the work that you've been doing. As you are putting this book out in the world, I know how much time and effort it takes to write a book. I've I am an author. I know that it is a passion project for many, many hours and many, many weeks and months and sometimes years. So as you put this out into the world, what is your biggest hope in regard to those that are reading this and what you want them to take out of the book.

Sean Harvey [00:17:13]:

I see this as an on ramp for men to come into the bigger picture of How we're transforming society and that an organization development practitioner by training systems thinker. When I look at when I see the world that is crumbling before us and the systems that are crumbling around us, the oppressive systems, that this is an on ramp for more men to be part of the conversation. This is an on ramp For men and women and those beyond the binary to be able to come together in new ways and solve problems deeper and Solve problems in a new way from a level of deeper consciousness and collective wisdom. To get to that place of deeper consciousness and where love is at the root of How we reframe systems, being able to have more men engaged in that by doing their own work, doing their healing work. Because I think right now what we have is society of a lot of men in power who are holding on to power from a place of wounding, not a place of healing. And so, ultimately, that has been my driver for all of us and for us to be able to get to a place of moving from fear based control to love based liberation in the ways that our systems Some institutions operate in the world.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:20]:

One of the things that comes to mind as I think about this work is that for many men, it may be that They don't know where to start, and they know that something needs to change. And in the book, I'm sure that there are some specific steps. But If there's one thing that you would want men to start doing right now as they look at their own life, As they look at the lives that they have with people around them, what's one thing that they should start doing today or that they can Start implementing today within their own life that can help move them and move the needle in that positive direction.

Sean Harvey [00:19:02]:

Yeah. I always say that the 1st step, and it's the 1st step I outlined in the book, find a community of men where you feel safe going deep and that the the group of men can hold each other and Ugly crying in front of each other. Because I think the biggest you know, when we talked earlier, what's one of the the big healing needs? And I think One of the biggest epidemics in our society, in in Western culture in the US, specifically, is isolation and loneliness for men in general. You know, certain general's reports just came out. We have epidemic of loneliness in our country. And what I find is We're this is really moving from disconnection, isolation, loneliness to deeper connection, intimacy, and love. And one of the first places we can start is by coming into community with other men and breaking down these ideas that we are the only ones Suffering or struggling with x and giving voice to the suffering that men are experiencing in silence. And so by just Coming into community and having the deeper types of conversations, either joining a men's group or there's a lot up here.

Sean Harvey [00:20:07]:

Philadelphia, a lot of guys I know, we go hiking on a regular basis, and it's just an opportunity to connect, to share. And then everything else kind of can start to come in when you just start to name what's been unspoken in your own life and hear from others who are doing the same and realizing that You have more in common with more men than maybe you've imagined.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:28]:

Yeah. That's what one of the reasons that we have the fathering together communities that we have is to bring men together to allow for them to be vulnerable, to allow for them to make community. But I will say that there are many other groups that are out there that you can join that will give you that small group mentality where you don't won't get that in a Dads With Daughters by Father and Together Facebook community that has a 130,000 members. Right? But For some people, you know, being in a large group is a step 2. So finding your tribe, finding that group, finding the people around you that you're Comfortable with that you are willing to go deeper with is important because I think I know even personally that many Of the things that we talk about, many of the people that we we surround ourselves with are very surface level. Even as you get into being a father, That tends to be the case. You talk about the positive things. It's that Facebook effect, and you don't always go Deep and really talk about the things that you're struggling with. But if you have even 1 person, 2 people that you can rely on, that you can go to and and check yourself. It's so important. And it is such a Release for yourself to have someone outside of your family that you can talk to and say, you know, I don't know if I'm doing this right or not Because we don't have to. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. As a father, as a man, you don't have to do this alone. You can surround yourself with other people. That'll help you.

Sean Harvey [00:22:07]:

I wanna add to what you just said though, when you said for you as the man to check. I think the other part of it is when you find that other men are checking in on you. You I find that that's one of the most powerful things when you realize someone else is looking out for you and someone else is checking in and you're on someone else's radar when It can be very easy to feel like you're all alone.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:28]:

Such a true thing. I have done that with with people around me, and it's not people that specifically that I've said, hey. I'm gonna check-in on you, but it's just calling out and saying, hey. What's going on? How are you doing? And Every time I do it, I mean, it seems like it's appreciated, and you never know where the conversation's gonna go. But But I think that it's, it's a powerful thing that and it's a gift that you really give to others when you get when you do ask that and you Give them the opportunity to unload a little bit in that way. Well, Sean, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for this, for what you're doing, for this Project that you're putting that you have started and this book that you've put out there. If people wanna find out more about you, about the book, Where's the best place for them to go?

Sean Harvey [00:23:16]:

I think the the easiest is go to my website, warrior compassion.com. If you wanna get the book, it's easy to find it on Amazon. So we're compassion, unleashing the healing power of men, and then you can you can find me through the website. You can you can get the book on Amazon, and everything that you'll need is there.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:33]:

Oh, Sean, thank you. Thank you for the work that you're doing, for engaging all of us men in these conversations, pushing us Out of our comfort zone a little bit here to think about things in different ways, to challenge us in many different ways, and I wish you all the best.

Sean Harvey [00:23:49]:

Alright. Thank you so much. It's great to be here.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:51]:

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child Comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information That will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step road maps, And more. You will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together ...org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:37]:

Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters And be the best dad that you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:49]:

We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents. Bring your AK because those kids are growing fast. The Time goes by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters,

In this episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast we welcome Jonathan Ramirez, a new father, project intern at Icstars in Chicago, and artist. We discussed Jonathan's journey of fatherhood, starting with the emotions and fears that come with being a new dad. Jonathan reflected on the overwhelming love he felt when he first learned he was going to be a father to a daughter. He also shared his concerns about raising his daughter in a world where women can be disrespected and undervalued. His fears included navigating the challenges his daughter might face due to gender bias and helping her through heartbreak.

The conversation shifted to Jonathan's vision of introducing his daughter to his culture, family, and values. He emphasized the importance of family and respect and shared his determination to instill these values in his daughter. He recounted his own childhood experiences and how his mother's reliance on family helped them through difficult times. Jonathan also acknowledged the value of respecting and empowering women and wants to teach his daughter that societal norms and gender biases do not define her worth.

Jonathan shared some of the unique experiences he had working at a restaurant. Jonathan mentioned how he initiated conversations with patrons who had children, seeking advice on fatherhood. He learned valuable insights, such as the importance of bouncing a crying baby, finding a babysitter, and the significance of balancing work and family life. 

Jonathan also shared his challenges in balancing his roles as a new father, intern, and restaurant worker. He talked about the struggle of leaving the house to go to work and the strong desire to spend more time with his daughter. Despite the challenges, he developed a routine of bonding with his baby girl after returning home.

Jonathan opened up about his past and the anger he once harbored towards his own father. He reflected on his journey to forgiveness and acceptance, realizing that his father was just a human dealing with difficult circumstances. This personal growth has allowed him to become a more positive and loving father to his own daughter.

The conversation concluded with the challenging topic of how Jonathan plans to discuss his nine-year prison experience with his daughter in the future. He shared concerns about how to broach the subject and whether to reveal this part of his past.

This episode offers you a candid and heartfelt conversation about fatherhood, family, and the challenges and triumphs of raising a daughter in today's world. Jonathan's journey and personal growth provide valuable insights into the complexities and responsibilities of being a father.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Everyone, this is Chris. Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be Strong independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, you and I are on a journey together. We have this opportunity every week to be able to talk, to learn, to grow, And to help each other to be better fathers. And I love going on this journey with you because no matter if you have kids that are brand new Or if they're in their teenage years or if they're adults, you're always gonna be a father, and there's always gonna be something that you can learn. Always gonna be something that you can do to be able to stay engaged, stay present, and do all kinds of things to be able to stay in the lives of your kids, And that's what's the most important. I love bringing you different guests, different dads, different people that are walking different paths, But they have things that they can share with you to help you in this journey that you're on.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:12]:

This week, we've got another great guest with us. Jonathan Ramirez is with us, and Jonathan is a father to a brand new daughter that was born in August of this year. So Brand new dad. He's also a project intern at Icystars in Chicago. He's a freelance Photographer. He's done been doing that a little bit. He's done a lot of different things. We're gonna talk about some experience that he's had working at a restaurant and learning from other dads.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:42]:

So we're gonna have a great conversation today. Really looking forward to be able to have him here and to share his experience With you, Jonathan Singh. Thanks so much for joining us today.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:01:51]:

Thank you so much, Chris, for that introduction, and I'm honored to be here. I really, really am. I enjoy Podcast I've watched already. A couple when I heard about it, and I got some great advice through here. Thank you for having me.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:04]:

Now usually, when I have dads on, they're not always As young of fathers in regards to the fact of having their child just recently but one of the first questions that I love to ask to turn the clock back in time. Now you don't have to turn it back as far probably as some of the some of the dads that I talked to. But let's turn the clock back To that first moment that you found out that you're going to be a dad to a daughter, what was going through your head? Yeah.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:02:29]:

It's not that far ago. I think I felt the same way When I heard of the heartbeat, like, as soon as they told us the gender, my heart melted. And I was like, I'm stuck. It's over with. I already love Her mom so much, and I do everything, anything I can. I just know that same love was gonna be the same for my daughter. Like, it's gonna be a little mini hurt, And I'm like, I I'm not gonna have time for myself anymore because I I run around now like crazy for Savannah, and now I'm gonna be doing it for Bella Rose for sure.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:01]:

Now I guess for you so far, as you think about being a father to a daughter, There, I talked to a lot of dads and a lot of dads say that there's some fear that goes along not only with being a new parent, but being a father to a daughter as well. What's your biggest fear In raising a daughter.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:03:16]:

That's a good question. I've been thinking about that every single day since. There's several fears. Number 1, I've seen so many people just Disrespect women just because they're women. No. Like, just the fact that they're a woman, they all they'll tuck over them or they'll belittle, and In the conversation, I see Savannah when I see my daughter, to be honest. And she is someone that's been spoken over over and over and over. And and her voice Might be small, but she has a lot of value in what she does say because she's incredibly intelligent.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:03:49]:

She's in College right now, I have to be a psychiatrist, but I see how she's been treated. I've seen how she's been treated by her teachers, her professors, just because she's a female. I've seen how she's been treated by her exes and my own sister as well growing up with her. She's only, like, 2 years younger than me. I mean, I've seen how tough It is for women and the differences for men. And my fear is I don't know how I would explain how to teach her that, how to teach her that, look, What how they see you, how they treat you is not because of the view. It's a social norm that's evolved over time, and I wanna be able to Show her how to overcome that. But not being a female myself, I don't know exactly how she would do that.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:04:33]:

Like, mine would be theory, not Experience. So I guess that is one of my fears. Another fear is just her coming to me and telling me how heartbroken she is for the 1st time. And I know she's It's only 2 months, but, yeah, I think about it. It's like, man, am I gonna have to go and, like, like, go talk to someone's parents and be like, hey. You check your kid or Something I don't know how far I'm gonna go. I'm gonna be the crazy dad. You know? So I just don't wanna see her with her tears looking at me, looking for A solution, and I don't have one. And I'm afraid that I that when she comes to me for that help, that I'm clueless. I don't wanna be the clueless father. I wanna be like, okay. Let's Let's figure this out together, you know, and let's go find you whatever you need. I think those are probably the fears that I've actually been thinking about. I'm sure there's probably others that I haven't thought about because I'm, you know, a new dad. But for now, these are the things that flag my mind, I guess, every now and then when I think of the future.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:33]:

One of the things that I would love for you to talk about too is you have a child now, and every person as they enter into fatherhood have To define for yourself what it means to be a father, but then also what it means to be a part of A family, a culture, and being able to inculcate that into your own children and Allow for your children to be able to understand what it means to be a part of the larger family Whether your larger culture. For you, how do you hope to introduce your daughter as she grows older to Your culture, your family, and be able to instill the values that are important to you.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:06:20]:

So that is one of the main things that I, hold very highly is family, is respect, And, also, I think I was just going to be involved like I usually am because our family is pretty big. And so there's certain parts of our family that have disappeared and fallen off. That's because they just don't feel like they wanna come out to the parties or Not just parties, but get togethers, celebrations, and what have you when the whole family gets together. I did that growing up. Every single Christmas, we went on as as a whole family, like cousins, aunts, uncles. And not only that, When my mom was going through hard times and we couldn't find the rent or we got kicked out of the house or she couldn't get to work because she just got in a car accident. I got in, like, 7 car accidents. Sorry if you're listening to this.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:07:12]:

But the thing that instilled in us was she was always able to rely on that family. She was always able to call her sister, my aunt or her brother, my uncle, and I seen it with my own eyes how powerful that was. When we didn't have the rent to afford an apartment, I mean, we went to my aunt's house and lived there for a couple months. And that growing up was huge to me. Like, man, this is the power of community. This is the power of family. And I hope I'm not Able to not pay the rent and having to show her that way. But I do wish to show her that family is important by being involved In families that and maybe even helping other family members.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:07:55]:

Maybe that's the way I can show her. I'm glad you said that because now I have that solution in my head for whenever that does come about. But, another thing is the respect. That is something that a lot of people don't I feel. I don't know. I don't wanna generalize, but I feel like respect has not been a priority A lot of people in recent times around me, around people I talk to. And and that's I wish I could teach her that, but not in a way that I was taught. I guess I would have to ask other fathers because I I don't have the answer how I would do it because I haven't done that experience yet. But the experience that I had, I did not feel like that was the right way to learn respect. And

Christopher Lewis [00:08:36]:

Do you have any ideas? I know you said you wanna talk to other dads, But you said that there are things that you do not want to pass on. What are some of those things that you don't want to pass on that are, or you're trying to break the cycle In a way

Jonathan Ramirez [00:08:49]:

I'm gonna give you a little bit of backstory before I answer that question. My mom's a single mom, and I was 4 years old. My brother was 3 years old, And my sister's 1 year old, and my mom is a single mom. And she had to work 2 jobs to afford everything. That was the position I was in when My mom needed help at home. And who is she gonna ask? She's gonna ask her oldest son, and that's me. So I was the one who had to get my brothers and sisters up or sometimes they have to get me up. But most of the time, I was cooking for them, and I was always rushing because my mom was always rushing me, and that's something that stuck with me.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:09:25]:

I feel like I gained a lot of good things out of that through those experiences. Like, I love being on time. I do not like being late, and it bugs me to the core. I mean, like, team management. I call it team management, but, really, it was just me telling my brothers, god. Let's go. We're going. We're late for school. You know, I'm only a year older than them, And I'm yelling at her, get ready. What are you guys doing? You're gonna get me in trouble with moms. And it has affected me because, like, Savannah is the total opposite. She It's late everywhere she goes, and it bugs me and bugs me to a point where it's not a good thing. It's like, come on, babe. I swear we said we're gonna be there 5 minutes go, and I do not wish to pass that along to my daughter. I don't want that that stress to consume her because she feels that she needs to be on. Savannah is so carefree, and I envy her for that.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:10:17]:

And I hope our daughter can find a in between, like being on time and respectful, but not stressing overly too much like I do. And the only way I can see that actually Me not actually passing the answer is working on myself. I'm a role model, and I don't wanna be the role model that says and not does.

Christopher Lewis [00:10:37]:

Appreciate you sharing that. And it's definitely you know, each father, each person that has a child brings their own History, their own baggage, the things that they have to work through, and it's not always easy. And Some people have more than others that you have to be able to work on internally. You have to work with other people on. And as you think about that for yourself, it sounds like you do have some that you're working on and that you're going to continue working on to make sure that That you break that cycle, and and that's a good thing. So I just commend you for doing the work. It's not gonna be easy, But it is a day by day thing that you'll have to work on as you are trying to be that best dad that you wanna be.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:11:23]:

Thank you so much.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:24]:

Now I know that You are doing a lot of different things. You are, you know, you're an intern at IC Stars. You are I mentioned you're a photographer, but you also worked a restaurant, I mean, you're you got a lot of plates in the air. You're a dad. You're supporting your your significant other. So talk to me about balance, and how do you balance all of that And still be able to stay engaged with your young daughter.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:11:48]:

Actually, I have put up the photography hat because I actually do paint and sips. I have my own business, and I am currently trying to only do libraries For free. I wanna turn into a not for profit because libraries were my own my escape as a childhood, and I wanna give back to them. And the way I balance it is so I still work at the restaurant. I work every weekend. So I gotta break down my schedule to Monday through Friday From 8 to 8, I'm a IC stars intern, and I get there an hour early and sometimes more Because I take the bus at 5:30 in the morning. And when I get home, I don't get home till around 9, 9:30 at night. And that's the time as soon as I walk in, I say hi to Savannah, give her a hug, and I let her know that I miss her.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:12:42]:

Throughout the day, I text her that I love her, and we keep Keep each other updated, but the first thing that I do right after is I hold my baby. And I spend time, 30 minutes to an hour depending on how long I get stuck staring at her because I just love staring at her. I mean, I could get lost just messing with her, just looking at her and Playing with her little hand. She's so tiny, but I know I still have work to do. So I make sure I spend that time So she can see my face. I don't want her, 4 months down the road, be like, who's this guy? I haven't I haven't met this guy yet. So I make sure she sees me every night. I got really great advice I'm a doula.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:13:19]:

And then she said, when you get home, create that routine with your daughter. And I took that to heart, and I have been trying my very best Every single night I get home to hold my baby right after I give my hug and my kiss to Savannah. Then Saturday, I work a double At Cooper's Hawk, almost every Saturday, and I don't start till 10:30 to 11. So the mornings is my time to be with the baby, and that's when I get to give Savannah a break from Constantly feeding and waking up to put down the baby, that's my time to shine. I I wake up really early every day anyways. So I'll get up early around 5, 6, 7, depending on how I feel. Because Saturday is like the day or depending on if the baby wakes up. But if the baby wakes up that morning, I make sure I'm the one who holds her. I get the baby bottle and I feed her. I let Savannah sleep in basically because she is a notorious person, she before the baby, she would sleep until, like, 3 in the afternoon, and now she can't do it. And I feel so bad. But on those Saturdays, She gets to sleep in, then I go to work. And then when I come back, I do the same thing. I hold my baby right after being with Savannah for a bit. And those Saturday mornings, I also make breakfast because I know Savannah deserves, you know, that treat. Not a treat, but Savannah deserves Me being more involved, and she's doing something incredible for me, and by holding down the house and the things that I can't take care of myself for now. And then Sundays, I try to only take 1 shift at the restaurant, and I try to move it either afternoon or night depending on what we have planned. Like this Sunday, we have a double date with another couple that we had met, and that's another great advice I got from the restaurant.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:15:01]:

They're like, hey. Remember, you guys are a couple that you need to go on dates and stuff. So since the baby's so young, we met a couple that has also a very young baby. I think their baby is only 7 weeks older than ours. And so we're we're gonna have like a play date for the babies, which they're not really gonna play, but it's more like for us to get together and enjoy some time Together as a group. And and my business, I don't try to over schedule myself because I do have a lot of things on my plate. So for the pan sips, I try to do 1 every 2 to 3 months so I don't overwhelm myself. It's not about the money. Yeah. The money's great, But I need to think about my family. I just I wanna be able to be there and not just support. I wanna actually be there.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:45]:

So you've been mentioning the restaurant, and I know that that's one of the things that you do as you mentioned, and It takes up quite a bit of time, but as you've been working there, you and I were talking about that you've been doing some kind of really kind of unique things as your A significant other was pregnant. And before your child was born, you started talking to people and asking people questions, And you learned some things, and you mentioned a couple other things. But talk to me about some of the biggest things and the biggest takeaways that you took From those conversations that you had in the restaurant with those patrons.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:16:23]:

Of course. I mean, there, they throw baby showers, And, I'm a banquet server at times, so I've gotten to to see people excited, waiting for their baby, but I've also seen I love patrons with kids already. And so I serve about, I wanna say, 15 tables a night. And out of those 15, maybe 13 of them have kids. And every single table that I see with kids, I do ask them, like, hey. I'm about to be a father. And they're like, oh, congratulations. I'm like, man, is there any advice that you can give me as a new parent? And a lot of it was the same, was, yeah, you gotta look tough for yourself.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:17:03]:

You have to make sure that When the baby's crying, you don't squeeze the stomach, you pat her on the back. Like, I got these, like, very specific things that I think they were dealing with and that they were struggling with That they told me about the one that really got to me and that really works for me, actually, like, I've been doing it is, Look. When you try to figure out what the baby is crying for and you change her diaper and you've burped her and you've fed her and everything's done and she's Still crying? Just bounce. That's all they want. They want you to hold her and bounce, and I do. I I get up and I I just, like, kinda Bend my knees a little bit and bounce a little bit, and she just loves it. And I'm like, oh my gosh. I will that guy I thought that that advice at the moment was just, Oh, this guy's a whack job.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:17:49]:

But no. I mean, that guy's a genius. I mean, it worked wonders for me. And, I mean, one of the craziest things I heard Was, like, find a find a babysitter or something. Grease as much milk as you can, and that was crazy at the time. But now that I'm in the moment, I see why. I understand why we need to freeze the milk because She don't have to keep getting up. I could help her out now.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:18:15]:

I was like, oh, don't worry, babe. I could feed her. You know, I can't magically produce milk. So now that she froze some, I can actually help her. I can actually be there for her, and I think those are the main things that I really, really utilized. And and I'm still asking. I I tell everybody, hey. I'm a new dad. You know, like, I try to get new advice every day I go.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:35]:

I love that you did that because that's not something that everybody would think about doing, but it's a great concept and it's definitely Allows you to build a community around you that you can turn to, and and that's important. Now we've we've talked about that so many times on the show, The importance of having a community of dads around you that you can turn to. Whether they're they're close friends, whether they're just people that you know that you could turn to, Whether it's family members, whatever it is, it's important to have that for yourself because it it does make sure to give you things that you can then turn to. And when you're struggling because there's debt I there's always gonna be a point in time when you will struggle as a dad, as a new father, as a father, as you're going through the different stages in your child's Life, there will be times that you will struggle, and it will get better, then it might get worse. And, you know, there's this kind of roller coaster that you end up being on with your child, And you just have to know that that's coming, but having people around you is definitely going to be something that is going to help you along the way. As a new dad right now, What would you say has been the hardest part for you in making this transition into being a new father?

Jonathan Ramirez [00:19:45]:

Hardest thing is leaving the house. I wanna be there. I wanna see her for steps. I Wanna see everything. I mean, I'm waiting for that moment where she laughs. Like, for the first time, I haven't heard her laugh. I've seen her smile. I don't know if it's For gas, it's because she's seeing me, and it's just that's the hardest part.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:20:01]:

When I'm at work, I know that I'm doing it for her. Now I know that I'm working. I'm doing this for my daughter. I wanna be there. I wanna be able to hold in my arms. I wanna be able to take it to work with me. And I do with pictures. Both my screensavers have my daughter.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:20:16]:

So every time I pick up my phone and, you know, as a human species now, we pick up our phones very much. Check my laptop. My work laptop has a picture of my daughter, so it makes me miss her more, actually. But, also, it keeps her in my forefront of my mind. And I think that is especially the most hard I could do the late nights. I could do the 4 hours of sleep, because I do it for work. So I could definitely do 2 hours of sleep If it was for my daughter, I know it'd be tough, but the toughest part is actually walking away, is not being there. Because I think that was The number 1 thing that I told myself since I was a kid, that I wasn't gonna be like my father.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:20:53]:

My father disappeared at 4, and, I mean, That was the 1 person that's supposed to love and care for you, to walk away and not be there. That was very detrimental to me growing up. It stuck with me. And I know that I'm not leaving for selfish reasons, and I know I'm leaving to better her life. But the fact that I'm leaving, it hurts me every time. I want her to see me there. I want her when she looks up crying, she sees her dad. Like, man, this is the guy that's gonna support me.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:21:20]:

He's always there. He's standing by my side. And I got plenty of time. I know I'm thinking of the words, but that's how I feel inside. You know, I'm not I don't think that constantly, but it's the feeling is that I gotta walk away, and I hate it.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:33]:

I wanna unpack that a little bit because you just made a a statement that I think Not just you have dealt with, but there's other fathers that are fathering in a way to forget some of the wrongs of their past And some of the things that their own father may have based on them in some way, but that the baggage, Again, like I mentioned earlier, that they carry. Now that you are a new father, have you been able to reconcile any of that baggage with your own father? And if not, is that something that you hope to do in the future?

Jonathan Ramirez [00:22:09]:

There is a moment in my life that I I didn't make very great decisions, And that was because I was very angry person growing up. So I was, sexually molested when I was 15, and that's another fear. And I didn't mention it earlier because that's just It's, something that I think every father fears maybe because if it can happen to me as a man and it's already happening so much to women, That scares me so much. And that right there caused me to hate my father so much because he wasn't there to explain to me what happened. He wasn't there to show me how to avoid those type of situations, and I blamed him. And I I was so angry. And then I started to blame god. And, like, why'd you give me to this person that that doesn't care about me and then allow this to happen? And I've done a lot of things that out of anger that I wasn't proud of.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:22:59]:

But during after one of these Major I I don't wanna call it a mistake because it was a decision that I made that I had to deal with with major consequences, which was 9 years of prison. And within those 9 years of prison, Within the 5th year, I heard this video, and it said that anger is like poison. You're drinking the poison, though. You're not poisoning the other person. You wish the other person to to die from this poison, but you're drinking it yourself and only killing yourself. So when that has said that I was in a mental state already where I was kinda locked up. I was moved removed away from, like, emotional stress, And I was able to unpack that in my head, and that led me to the realization that, look, my father is just a human being. There is nothing this man Could have done differently to change the circumstances around me.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:23:52]:

He could, yeah, he could have told me things. He could have taught me a bunch of things, But it doesn't change the circumstances that I would have been in. It wouldn't change the environment I would have been in. I'd have still made my own decisions. And he's just a man. He couldn't predict that. And so I reconciled with him as soon as I got out to the So the dislike of many of my family members because they haven't you know, I haven't dealt with that themselves. But I'm like, look, I don't I'm tired of hating.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:24:19]:

I'm tired of Blaming others, what I gotta do is for myself and my family. And when I found out that I was gonna have this daughter, I was so, like, jubilant, happy, ecstatic because now I could do all the things that I thought a father should be. And hopefully, it's enough, you know, because I can't change those things that are uncontrollable. Those things are gonna happen or not. And I just hope that she knows that I'm supportive of her no matter what happens in her, and I'm there by her side always.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:48]:

Really appreciate you sharing that. It's, definitely It moves you from pain to that acceptance and understanding that I mean, being able to reconcile, I'm sure, lifted a burden Or hopefully both of you to be able to move forward and be able to, as I said earlier, to be a better dad because You've been able to do that. Now you talked about the fact that you had 9 years in prison, and at some point in time, that's gonna come up. It's gonna come up. You're gonna talk about it. You're going to bring it up and have to have those conversations with your own daughter about the mistakes that you made in life That led you there. Have you thought about that and how you think that you're going to be able to have those type of conversations?

Jonathan Ramirez [00:25:33]:

Yes. I have thought of that. And Savannah and I have spoken about these things, and it's just I haven't came up with an answer. I told Savannah, look. Let's just keep it from her. I don't want her to know. And when she finds out, we'll we'll get to it then. But I know that's not a good, route to take because then it's gonna be like, hey. Why are you hiding this for me? But I don't know how to explain to her. I just feel like I don't wanna make it a normal thing either. And I don't want her They run and tell their friends, oh, yeah. My dad's in prison and this, and like, I don't want her spreading that. And like my dad's cool kind of way, because it isn't. I don't have the answer of how I would do it, but I definitely have thought of just letting her know when she's like 14 And like on a birthday and be like, hey. I wanna tell you a few things that I think you're old enough to hear now, or like go with the moment. If I feel like the moment's right, then we're bonding to use that moment.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:26:25]:

Like, I wish I would have the right answer to them, and that's another phase. Like, is she gonna reject me? She'd be like, what? Because my nephew he thought I was in police academy when he was visiting me in prison. My nephew was born the same year I was In prison. So he's only met me in prison for the 1st 9 years of his life. And this whole that whole time, he thought I was in a police academy. And I believe it was when he was 7, my brother's like, hey, I think it's about time. We start telling Brian because he's starting to ask questions. And, like, he started noticing, hey.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:27:04]:

Why do we have to do this when we Go visit uncle Jonathan. We gotta go through checks and stuff. And it was a hard conversation because he was in the visiting room, and I'm like, hey. Yeah. I used to be a bad guy. Because that's what you call them, cops and robbers. And like, oh, you can catch the bad guys. And I'm like, you know what? No. I didn't catch the bad guys. They caught me. I was a bad guy. And it's because I made a lot of wrong decisions out of anger. Like, anger is the number one thing that I I keep playing back to that I have been really working on myself with, and I've gone a long way, but I know I still have a lot more to go. And hopefully, that conversation goes like it went with my nephew because he is so lovable. He told me, don't worry, uncle. When I become a cop, I won't arrest you. I was like, oh Oh my god. That kid is the bomb. But I mean, like, he loves me so much and he his did not change at all. He loves me. He misses me. Every time he sees me, he gives me a big old hug, and and I just hope my daughter is the same. She's standing and or she doesn't come up with her own narrative on how things went down, and I would be able to explain that to her in a conversation or something.

Christopher Lewis [00:28:17]:

Be points in time Where have those moments, those moments that you have connection, those moments where there are Concerns or things that have happened in your daughter's life that you may be able to relate back to your own experience and be able to say, this is what happened to me. And you don't wanna go down that road and have those type of conversations about what you learned along the way. And maybe it's through stories, And maybe there's some ways to be able to build some stories together and teach her through story As she's getting older and share some of those stories with her in a a trickle down approach, you never know. I can't say that I had that same but you definitely are right. I think if she finds out on her own, there may be more feelings of betrayal In the sense of not knowing you the way she thought she did. So I think you've got that right in that concern that you've Got in your own mind. And it's not an easy thing to do, an easy thing to talk about, but maybe there are other dads out there that you can connect with that have had the same can talk about how they did it for themselves, and that may be something too down the road that you might be able to learn from other dads in that regard. But I do appreciate you sharing that.

Christopher Lewis [00:29:34]:

We always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood five, where we ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Jonathan Ramirez [00:29:42]:

I'm ready.

Christopher Lewis [00:29:42]:

One word. What is fatherhood? 

Jonathan Ramirez [00:29:44]:

Leadership.

Christopher Lewis

When is the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father To your daughter.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:29:51]:

Well, it might sound silly, but when I first burp there, I'm like, man, I did it. I mean, like, I was so nervous about holding her patting her back. Am I doing it too much? Or am I hurting her? And she let out this big old belch. I'm like, yes. I did it.

Christopher Lewis [00:30:07]:

Think down the road, maybe 7, 10 years down the road. Was to talk to your daughter then, How would you want her to describe you as a dad?

Jonathan Ramirez [00:30:15]:

Supportive, loving, kind, and always there for her.

Christopher Lewis [00:30:19]:

Fears you to be a better dad.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:30:21]:

Just my sense of family, my own sense of family. Like, I want our family. I see so many fathers that fall short, not because They're not doing the right things, basically, but because of that cycle. And I don't wanna carry that baggage. That's what it is. This baggage. We all have baggage, and I've seen time and time again how How fathers bring that into the mix, and that inspires me because I wanna start the new cycle. I wanna start a new cycle that shows that, look, We can do it.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:30:47]:

We can do this. We don't have to repeat the same mistakes our fathers made. I think that inspires me a lot that there's some just fathers out there that are doing fantastic things. Seeing them like you right now, this is inspiring. I mean, like, you are an inspiration because you're helping fathers and you're getting that information out. I would have never known this existed if it wasn't for me talking about my daughter with Brian. And Brian, as a father to daughters, like, hey, Check this out. You know, it's Chris.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:31:17]:

He's doing great things. That's inspiring, seeing fathers getting together and just my own personal sense of family. Like, I really love that. That makes me feel so good that there's people out there pushing this issue forward, and it's really awesome.

Christopher Lewis [00:31:31]:

You've given a lot of piece of advice today, things that you've learned along the way so far as a new dad, but also things that you've learned from other fathers. As we leave today, what's 1 piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Jonathan Ramirez [00:31:42]:

There's no way that you're a bad father. There's no way you're a bad father unless that's what you're going for. That is my advice. I know that sounds weird, but I thought before I had my baby that I I was gonna be a bad father because I'm a felon. I don't have a great career. I'm poor bro. I'm gonna be the worst father ever. Like, how can I be a great dad? But you're not A bad father for those things.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:32:08]:

You actually are a good father for worrying about those things, because you're actively thinking about your kids And their welfare and their well-being. And that alone makes you a good father because there's so many fathers out there that don't even care. They don't care. They don't wanna think about Their kids is they rather think about themselves. And I feel like if you're thinking that, oh, I'm gonna be a bad dad, You're on the right path. You're on the right path. If you think that you're gonna be a bad father and you're worried about that, you're on the right path. Stop thinking that though because you're a great dad, and that's the number one advice I can give somebody.

Christopher Lewis [00:32:45]:

Oh, Jonathan, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your Story for sharing your baggage that you are carrying into fatherhood and that you're working through in your own way, and I truly wish you all the best.

Jonathan Ramirez [00:32:58]:

Thank you so much, Chris, and thank you for having me out here. This is awesome. I appreciate it.

Christopher Lewis [00:33:04]:

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to Check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information That will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step road maps, And more. You will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together ...org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today.

Christopher Lewis [00:33:50]:

Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters And be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy in presents and bring your a k because As those kids are growing fast, the time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and musclemen get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best

In this episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast we welcome Paul Glezer to the show. The episode focuses on Paul's journey as a father, raising his daughter, and navigating the challenges and joys of fatherhood.

Paul Glezer shared his unique journey into fatherhood. He described the moment he found out he was going to be a father and how it made him feel a mix of joy and an out-of-body experience due to the simultaneous passing of one of his musical heroes. Paul also shared his initial reaction to finding out he was going to have a daughter and the overwhelming happiness he felt, envisioning her as "daddy's little girl" and "daddy's little princess."

The conversation delved into some common fears of raising daughters. Paul mentioned the fear of not knowing what it's like to be a little girl and dealing with the challenges unique to daughters. He reflected on his experiences of navigating the complexities of fatherhood and appreciated the early development of his daughter's strong personality and ability to engage in conversations and tackle life's questions.

As his daughter has grown, Paul shared that they bonded over physical activities. He talks about their shared love for gymnastics and how they trained together using gymnastics rings. He highlights the satisfaction of being able to share those moments and connect on a physical level.

The discussion also touched on the peaks and valleys of fatherhood and the challenges Paul faced when his daughter's security and self-esteem were threatened. He emphasizes the importance of guiding and building resilience in children, even when it's emotionally challenging.

Regarding the balance between personal and family life, Paul stresses the importance of filling one's own cup and setting personal goals for self-care. By ensuring that they take care of themselves, fathers can be more present for their children and partners.

The conversation also explores the "Girl Dad" hashtag and the special bond between fathers and daughters. Paul believes in a unique connection between fathers and daughters, whether it's a perceived phenomenon or reality. He expresses his love and pride in being a girl dad.

The episode concludes with a discussion about Paul's initiative, The Art of Healthy Parents and Your Hero Life. He explains how the group focuses on providing advice and support to fathers to help them maintain their physical and mental health, enabling them to be more present for their families.

Paul offered advice for dads who are hesitant to change their health and lifestyle habits, emphasizing the importance of starting with easy wins. He encourages them to take small steps and build on their progress over time.

The Art of Healthy Dads serves as a valuable resource for fathers looking to improve themselves and their relationships with their families. 

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Hey, everyone. This is Chris, and welcome to Dads with Daughters, where we bring you guests to help you be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong independent women. I'm excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, we have an opportunity to be able to connect, to be able to talk, and And be able to walk on this path that we're on together. I've told you in the past, I've got 2 daughters myself. I know you've got daughters if you're here, and Every dad's journey is just a little bit different, and it's important. It's important to be able to connect. It's important to be able to hear these differences and be able to hear the way in which Different dads are fathering because there's no one right way to father.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:57]:

There's no one right manual for how to be a father, But we can learn from every dad around us, and it may not be easy to go next door and talk to that dad next door And be able to admit when things are aren't going the best, but sometimes you can listen and you can take in some different Thoughts, some different perspectives, and build a toolbox for yourself. And that still doesn't mean that you have to do it alone. It just means that you have an opportunity to be able to learn, to grow, and to be able to help yourself to be able to be that dad that you wanna be. That's what this show is all about. Every week, I love being able to sit down with different people, different dads, different experts that are bringing different types of experiences to the forefront that will help you to be able to be a better father.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:52]:

We've got another great dad with us today. Paulie Glieser is with us today, and Paulie is a

Christopher Lewis [00:01:58]:

father of 2. We're gonna be talking about his journey as a father himself. He lives in Melbourne, Australia, and we are I'm really excited to be able to learn from him and his experiences and to welcome him to the show. Paulie, thanks so much for being here today.

Paul Glezer [00:02:12]:

Thank you so much for having me on the show, Chris. It's an absolute pleasure to be here, and, thanks Making the time in the evening over in Michigan.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:20]:

Well, I appreciate you giving me some time in the morning where you are that we we found that there's about a 14 hour difference Between where I am and where you are, but I love being able to have dads from all over the world to talk with them Because every dad's journey is a little bit different, and I love starting these conversations with a opportunity to To go back in time, to turn the clock back, we'll say. And I'd like to turn the clock back all the way back To that first moment that you found out that you were going to be a father to a daughter, what was going through your head?

Paul Glezer [00:02:53]:

Well, firstly, before we delve in, I just wanna Congratulate you and your community on what an incredible document you're preserving for fathers, specifically of of Girls out there and daughters because it's a really special connection between fathers and daughters to be able to grow, develop, and To have, you know, these stories to be able to reference is is really special, so thank you for your contribution. So The moment I found out I was a father was a different time to when I found out I was a a father of a daughter. The moment I found out my wife was pregnant with our child. It was the same day I found out one of my musical heroes passed away. It was a very Weird time that, like, to have that amazing experience of getting that information, I was just overwhelmed with joy. If you were to isolate that and then, there was this kind of, I suppose, out of body experience between this birth and death realm that was going on in my, inner world as well. But then fast forward to the birth of our child Finding out I always said during the gestation period and the the pregnancy, I didn't have a great preference over whether it was a a boy or a girl, Son or daughter. And when we found out that our child was a daughter, we didn't find out previous to the birth.

Paul Glezer [00:04:16]:

I was just, I don't know. Something within me just was like, I'm so happy. This is a girl. She's gonna be daddy's little girl, daddy's little princess, and I was just overcome with Emotion, overcome, cried for days.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:29]:

I've talked to a lot of different dads, and dads tell me that not only is there fear in Becoming a father just in general, but there a lot of times for dads with daughters, they say that there's a fear of raising daughters in some ways. What What would you say has been your biggest fear in raising a daughter?

Paul Glezer [00:04:47]:

Firstly, I would say my biggest fear of raising children in general has been I've never done this before. And you can't read any manual that is gonna give you a blueprint because you are A complete unique individual, and the fruits of your loin are completely unique individual. So that was, like, completely disarming but liberating In the same way, because I knew that anything I did was gonna be right and wrong depending on how we kind of danced through the sea of life together. And then there was the added complexity of me. I've never been a little girl before, so I don't know what it's like to of the challenges associated with being a little girl, and it's just amazing. You know? I I say at the beginning of her childhood, I always So fatherhood at the beginning is it's there's no doubt. It's it's not easy, but it's simple. You keep your child alive.

Paul Glezer [00:05:39]:

You sleep when they sleep. You change their nappies. And then once they start to develop these little personalities, all of a sudden, they're Challenging you there, having these opinions on life, and I've got a feeling my daughter had opinions earlier than Some. And it was great to be able to have these conversations with her and to tackle life's bigger questions at an early age.

Christopher Lewis [00:06:03]:

Now your daughter is 5, and during those years, as you said, your child starts to have their own personality. You start to identify things that make them tick, make them excited, make them happy, make, you know, the things that they enjoy doing. And those may or may not be similar to things that you enjoy doing as well. What would you say is the What are the favorite things that you and your daughter like to share together?

Paul Glezer [00:06:30]:

I'm a very physical person. I enjoy using my body a lot. And From the moment my daughter was born, she was just glued together really cohesively. She walked early. She ran early. She did sports early. She did everything where she could express herself physically in quite a cohesive manner, and she took that and she ran with it. Pardon the pun.

Paul Glezer [00:06:52]:

We were able to share That experience of expressing ourselves physically together. I get my gymnastics rings up in the back of our house, And we experience learning different training technique as a father and daughter. We'd experience different gymnastics moves together. Growing up, 80, My daughter was probably more kind of gravitating towards mom for a period of time. I want mom to put me to bed, I feel like I I was sitting on the bench for a little while and just enjoying the supportive role that I had. And this is not a woe is me story. It's just The reality of the way it is and ebbs and flows. And and of late, she's given me the ring in, and she's daddy's little girl of late.

Paul Glezer [00:07:34]:

And I'm, like, Rolling up my sleeves, and I'm like, okay. This is daddy's time to shine. I want daddy to put me in a bed. And this is gonna come in various different, peaks and troughs and, stages in in life. But right now, I gotta tell you, the connection that I am having with my daughter, Being able to share the small things in life with her has been truly remarkable and also very validating for me because my daughter looks at me and She says, daddy, what do you think? I'm like, yeah. This is nice.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:04]:

Onto it now because as they get into their teenage years, it might change. You never know.

Paul Glezer [00:08:08]:

I'm sure.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:09]:

So as your daughter has has gotten older, as you have already said, there's been peaks and valleys. There's been ups and downs. There's There's different phases, different stages, and with those comes some challenges along the way as well. It's not always going to be easy To be a parent, as we all know, what would you say has been the hardest part for you in being a father to a daughter?

Paul Glezer [00:08:33]:

I'll use my, I suppose, my most Recent experiences as guidance. Having any kind of difficulty where my daughter's security as an individual is threatened, and that can be through having being left out of a playing circle between 3 kids for a day. That just goes so deep to my heart, and it Breaks me into a 1000000 different pieces because I'm sitting there thinking, I know what it's like to have experienced something like that in my childhood, feeling unvalidated, Feeling threatened, feeling like you're less than in a social environment. And for your daughter to experience something like that At such a young age, which I'm sure every son and daughter will experience in their life, as the father of a daughter in that protective mechanism that is inbuilt in us, I feel, becomes really, really upgraded and becomes, like, super intent. And then my rational mind comes into play and says, well, this is an exercise of resilience. How is she gonna be able to tackle this? How is she gonna be able to endeavor to be able and our role as parents or my role, I saw as a dad is to be able to guide her, give her examples of how this has affected me in my life in the past, And see how she takes it and runs with it. And it's been incredible to just see how this tiny little baby 5 years ago has developed this, Not just this ability to be able to think independently for yourself, but to be able to look at unique situations And then riff on them and grow before my very eyes. It's remarkable.

Christopher Lewis [00:10:08]:

I know that you're a busy guy. You know, you are an entrepreneur. Where you are doing a lot of different things and balancing those things, balancing the different hats that you wear As a father, as a husband, all the other hats that you also put on, talk to me about how you balance all of that So that you are present and that you are engaged and able to be there for your daughter.

Paul Glezer [00:10:33]:

So the one thing I've learned, and I've learned this The difficult way, the uncomfortable way at the beginning of parenthood is I need to be able to fill my own cup up, whatever that looks like, In order to be available for my children, for my partner, for my friends, I need to be able to feel full myself. And feeling full Criteria wise, now can be very different to what it felt like when I was 20 years old. But being conscious of what that looks like, Setting those goals, filling my own cup up, and then knowing that when I'm, coming home from a day at work and I'm with my children and my daughter, I can and this doesn't always happen 100% of the time, but I can put my phone down. I can leave it and just be completely and actually present with my daughter. And I've and I've realized that taking your children on big holidays does not excuse not being present For the small transient moments in their life, I actually feel like those 5 minute bursts of transient Connection consistently put together far more powerful experience for your children than going, I don't know, taking your your children to club med or whatever it might k.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:48]:

So true. So true. And those little moments add up to big moments, and they and kids reflect back on them. And what I've come to find is you can't get those moments back. And if you are completely checked out, If you're on your phone, if you're not there, if especially when your kids want you to be there, then As they get older and they don't want you to be there, they remember you not being there too. And it's So important to be able to, especially as your kids are young, to invest the time in to build that solid relationship So that as they get older, they know that you're there, that you can always that they can come to you. And as they Stretch their wings and look for more autonomy that they still will come back, and they still want you around Even though they want that autonomy at the same time.

Paul Glezer [00:12:49]:

I couldn't agree more. Well said. And to me, the the word that comes up when you are discussing something like that is trust. Them trusting you to be attentive, present, and available for them in these times in their life. They may not look or appear to be the most Vulnerable times in a a kid's life that it's like every time you are attentive, it's like a a dollar in the bank, that trust, mechanism that you can flex, that muscle that you can flex between yourself and your daughter. And I think that has a compound interest that you said can probably That probably rates its benefits later on in life as well.

Christopher Lewis [00:13:28]:

Appreciate you sharing that. Now I've been talking to a lot of dads recently about a hashtag that keeps coming back up. It's been around for many years, and you may see it in your neck of the woods. You may not. But the hashtag girl dad has been around for Quite a few years now. As you hear that, and it may mean something to you, and it may not mean something. But what does that mean to you? What does being a girl dad mean to you?

Paul Glezer [00:13:51]:

The hashtag Girl tag to me really just it it's hard to explain in words, but to me, there appears to be a very unique and special bond Between a father and his daughter. And, you know, you've got 2 daughters. And I have a daughter and a son, and they're both incredibly special to me. But I can my relationships with both of them are unique, and I definitely see the connection between my daughter and myself. There's something inherent between what a daughter kind of experiences with her father. Whether I perceive it in my own mind Or it's reality. I'm not sure that yeah. I can definitely say that special bond between a daughter and dad.

Christopher Lewis [00:14:35]:

Well, I appreciate that. Now I mentioned at the beginning that you have been doing some of your own work with other men, with other dads, and you have a group Called the art of healthy dads, and you're working as you said to me prior to us starting to talk, You've been working in kind of physical and mental health spaces and and trying to help dads in other ways. I guess, Talk to me a little bit about this this group that you've started, the Art of Healthy Dads. You know, why did you decide that this was something that you really wanted to to start For yourself, for others, especially as an offshoot to because I know that you also were the founder and owner of Hero Life as well. So talk to me about why you started this group and why was it important for you to start this group?

Paul Glezer [00:15:26]:

So I I mentioned that when I first Became a father. Well, first, let me rewind a little bit more. A lot of my friends became fathers before I did, and I saw A certain consistency in health decline amongst my friends who became parents, both physically and to a certain extent mentally and emotionally. It was a it's a lot to take on board the transition from not being a parent to being a parent. And I saw that, and I was I thought to myself, From a physical standpoint, I've been a health coach for 20 years, and I thought to myself or at this time, 15. And I thought to myself, there's no way I'm gonna drop the ball on This one. I've got all the knowledge. I've got a lot of experience in training people, All the nuts and bolts associated with nutrition, la la la.

Paul Glezer [00:16:16]:

Needless to say, I dropped the ball when I became a father. The transition was So far out of left field for me, I really, really struggled with it. And it took me some time for me to pick up the pieces and to understand that This is such a delicate fine balance to being able to give to be able to serve yourself and to be able to give to yourself so you can be available for your family so you can be the best person you can possibly be for your children and for your loved one. And this entity of family is Consistent of so many different entities, there's yourself as an individual with who you need to nourish unapologetically. And then if you're in a partnership, There's the partnership between yourself and your partner that you need to nourish as a separate entity, and that needs the spotlight that it deserves as well. And then you have the unique relationships that you're developing between yourself and your children that also need a spotlight. Now if you're transitioning From a 20 something year old or a 30 an early 30 year old who's, I don't know, kicking around playing footy and whatever you're doing, you're pretty much You are the center of your universe. Right? And you don't have a great deal of mind, space, and or care for those around you because you don't need to.

Paul Glezer [00:17:32]:

And then all of a sudden, you're thrusted into this universe where there are so many different things going on that need to be nourished. It's a massive transition. And the catch 22 is You can't be as available for these people without you being able to fill your own cup up, and that's one thing I learned very, very strongly. So I've started this group to be able to be a mouthpiece from my own experience, to be able to offer advice and or have a forum where men can express and exchange ideas between each other to be able to be as healthy as they possibly can embody and in mind so they can be able to be the most present, the most giving people they can be in a family environment.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:17]:

So talk to me about the group itself and what people are gonna find if they decide to join.

Paul Glezer [00:18:23]:

The the IFF Healthy Dads is a free forum and group where I basically, I cycle points of advice In my own experience and anecdotes from in my own experiences to challenges that I may have experienced in my own life And or I may have had with clients that I work with. That generally expands upon a number of different pillars, That is exercise or movement, nutrition, lifestyle advice, which is a massive one, and I could break that down The the 2 because people may just think to themselves what's lifestyle. And then there's mindset as well, which is the filter that Really embarks upon or that affects everything that I just spoke about before. So to touch on lifestyle, that really is being able to understand what Your unique characteristics or challenges are for you as a busy working dad. So if person a is a 9 to 5 or Nowadays, 8 to 6 or 7 worker who just doesn't have the time to be able to give to themselves And to their family. And my job is to be able to sit back and actually understand what their ideal week would look like And how we can get towards that weight as quickly as possible. How can we identify gaps in their schedule where they can give to themselves? How can we stack Certain habits. So we can make them as effective as possible and actually give them the opportunity to grow in health And also develop that presence of mind and consciousness so they can actually come back to their families and be able to give more and be more present.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:01]:

Comes to changing Your health changing kind of those habits, it does take time. It does take effort, and it's not always easy. And I think From some dads that I talk to, that's sometimes some of the things that get in the way of making those changes. For someone that is in that rut that that they just don't feel like they can start moving in that right direction, What are some easy things that you would say to them that they can start doing right from day 1 that can help to move them And move the needle in the right direction.

Paul Glezer [00:20:38]:

Well, I think he hit the nail on the head when he said the word easy. It needs to be an easy win. As human beings, we have a an internal dialogue that can really talk ourselves out of success, this self sabotage Narrative in our minds. And I've been dealing with dads now almost exclusively for about 4 years. And we had this amazing way of being able to just spell certain possibilities from our minds because we feel guilty for putting ourselves first in certain situations. But if we can make that win easy enough and achievable enough, then we use that habit to build on itself. So if you're looking to as a father, let's say you set a goal of running a marathon and you haven't run-in 5 years. Well, That that's fine.

Paul Glezer [00:21:27]:

It's great to have goals, but let's reverse engineer that goal back towards really tangible Habits that you can build 1 upon the other, and that might be for some person, it might be going for a jog around the block. For another person, It might be going for a walk every morning. For another person, it might be just putting your shoes on. And that might seem ridiculous to Somebody, saying, well, putting my shoes on, but that's just exercising that muscle of you being able to say, right, my intention Is in 5 years' time to have a marathon under my belt, well, what happens if I just put my shoes on for the next week? And then the week after that, I go for a walk for a month. And then the month after that, I am running around the block For 5 minutes, and you build up so on and so forth, and you become 1% better every day until 5 years down the track, You're running a marathon, and it doesn't it seems like it's impossible at the point in which we our minds are at, but we need to be able to Look at this and not overestimate what we can achieve farther down the track.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:36]:

So it sounds like you're working with men day by day, Step by step as they work toward finding that goal for themselves, but then helping them to achieve that goal And this group is just 1 piece of the puzzle. Am I reading that right?

Paul Glezer [00:22:51]:

The group out of Healthy Dads is for men. It's a community that men can exchange ideas with one another. It's something that I'm very passionate about, offering as much advice as I possibly can. You mentioned hero Tribe or hero life, that's the service that I offer for people who are after accountability, support, And framework to be able to achieve this on a personal level. I sit down with individuals and almost take a complete inventory of their life, understand what's happening on a personal level dynamically with their partners, if it's relevant dynamically with their children, And understanding exactly how we can develop solutions to be able to, Move the needle ever so slightly in every department of their life. It's remarkable what happens after you do it for just even 1 or 2 months. How unbelievable these men don't even recognize themselves after a couple of months.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:53]:

I really appreciate you sharing that. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Paul Glezer [00:24:03]:

Ready.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:03]:

In one word, What is fatherhood? Trust. The time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Paul Glezer [00:24:11]:

The very moment she was born.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:13]:

Now if I was to talk to your daughter, how would she describe you as a dad?

Paul Glezer [00:24:17]:

I would like to think caring, unapologetically affectionate, doting, And at times challenging, although she may not have used those words.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:27]:

Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Paul Glezer [00:24:29]:

My daughter does. My children do.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:31]:

You've given a lot of piece of advice, things for people to think about and to challenge them in different ways. As you think about all dads that

Christopher Lewis [00:24:42]:

that are out there, what's 1 piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Paul Glezer [00:24:42]:

First thing that comes to mind is everything in parenthood, everything in childhood is a phase. Everything in human existence is a phase. So the, quote, unquote, bad times where your children are continuously waking up throughout the night refusing to go to sleep like my youngest son did last night, that's a phase. And whilst it feels like you are in the depths The despair and you feel like you're never gonna get out of it, it will eventually come to an end. And, likewise, when everything is humming along perfectly, Your children are just doing exactly as they are told. That will also naturally conclude, and the next cycle will begin. And This is, to me, just like a really great kind of mantra that that I tell myself, regularly to help myself survive the difficult times And to really be present for the good times, to be able to to use them, and also be present for the bad times because whilst They're challenging their their their growth.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:44]:

Paulie, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your own journey. If people wanna find out more about you, about your group, Where should they go to find out more?

Paul Glezer [00:25:53]:

The best place to go would be a couple of resources. There is www.yourherolife .com. I can also give you the art of healthy dads URL if you would like as well as my Instagram. Instagram URL is paul_glazer, g l e zed e r. The the group of the art of healthy dads is facebook.comforward/groupsforward/

Christopher Lewis [00:26:20]:

Out of healthy dads. We'll put long links in the notes today to make sure that you have those so that you can find Paulie And be able to connect with him if you want to. And and, Pauley, again, thank you so much for your sharing your own journey today, for sharing your own perspectives, and And the ups and downs of fatherhood for you as well, and I wish you all the best.

Paul Glezer [00:26:42]:

Thank you so much, Chris.

Christopher Lewis [00:26:43]:

If you've enjoyed today's Episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best Dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, Step by step road maps and more. You will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out atfatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today.

Christopher Lewis [00:27:29]:

Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared To helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:27:41]:

We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy Add in presents and bring your a game because those kids are growing fast. The time buzz by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen,

In this episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we welcome Malcolm Newsome, a children's book author from the Chicago area to the show. We discuss Malcolm's diverse background in software consulting and cybersecurity. They dive into Malcolm's children's book Dear Star Baby, which is inspired by the loss of two unborn children and reflects his personal journey as a father of five.

The conversation explores Malcolm's experiences as a father, especially when it comes to parenting daughters. He shares his initial excitement upon learning he would be a father to a girl and his mental and emotional preparations. They discuss the fears fathers often have when raising daughters and the significance of fostering a unique bond with each child.

The episode delves into how Malcolm balances his busy life, including work, writing, and being a father to five children. He emphasizes the intentional decisions he's made to prioritize family time and be present in their lives.

Malcolm shares his approach to building unique relationships with his daughters and how he embraces their individuality. He highlights the importance of letting them be themselves and supporting their interests, whether they align with traditional gender norms or not.

The conversation takes a heartfelt turn as Malcolm discusses the grief he experienced after the loss of two unborn children and the societal pressures fathers face when dealing with such tragedies. He acknowledges the need for more open conversations about pregnancy loss and offers insights into how he processed his own grief and found support in unexpected places.

Malcolm introduces his forthcoming children's book, Sydney's Big Speech, which tackles the issue of shattering stereotypes and empowering young girls, especially black girls, to speak their minds confidently. He shares the inspiration behind the book and how he's using it to create a positive legacy for his own daughters and young readers alike.

Finally, the episode concludes with a glimpse into the author's personal connection to his books, sharing touching moments when his children experienced and embraced the stories he wrote. Malcolm reflects on the emotional impact of writing these books and how they've strengthened his bond with his family.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Hey, everyone. This is Chris, and welcome to Dads with Daughters where we bring you guests to help you be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong independent women. We're excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We have a great opportunity every week To be able to talk and walk on this path together of raising daughters. It's not always easy. It's not always going to be that Straight and narrow path, but it's important it's important to have these conversations, to talk, to know that you're not alone, And to know that there are other dads just like you that are struggling through it, that are working through it, that are working to be the best dad that they can be, and that's what this podcast is all about. I love being able to talk with you every week and bring you different guests Bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that can help you to be that better dad That you can learn from what they've gone through because every father's journey is just a little bit different, And there's no one right way to father.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:24]:

So being able to listen to other dads and to connect with other dads is definitely something that All of us need to be able to be the best dad that we want to be. So today, we've got another great dad with us. Malcolm Newsom is with us. And Malcolm's a children's book author from the Chicago area, and he has worked in a lot of different areas. He used to be a vice president of a software consulting firm and now works in cybersecurity. But on top of that, like I said, he's a children's author. We're going to be talking about 1 book that he wrote called Dear Star Baby, and that book is a book that was written After the experience that he had with the loss of 2 unborn children. And we're also going to talk about that.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:13]:

On top of this, we're going to talk about another book that he has coming out in the near future, and we're going to be learning, of course, more about his own journey as a Father of 5. I'm really excited to have him here. Malcolm, thanks so much for being here today.

Malcolm Newsome [00:02:27]:

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I really love that intro. So much of what you said is true and resonates with me.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:33]:

Now I know you've got 5 kids, 3 boys, 2 girls. And I'm gonna focus on those girls because, you know, this is the Dads with Daughters podcast. So I want to turn the clock back in time And go to that 1st moment, that first moment when you found out that you're going to be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Malcolm Newsome [00:02:53]:

I actually did not find out Until she was born, and this was very intentional because at the time that she was born, Was just as the gender reveals were gaining popularity, they've been around, but they were really starting to become a much bigger thing where people were doing these much more elaborate gender reveals. And my wife and I made an a very intentional decision in that we did not wanna find out prior to. And This was, I I think, an important decision because as we'll get into, I always saw myself as A dad to girls, and I always wanted a daughter even from my high school days. And so we fast forward. We're in that moment. My wife gives birth, and, you know, it's just it's the it's it's almost those that moment of, like, feeling like Time is slowing down. Everything's in slow motion because I'm waiting for the doctor to say, you have a And it's it's a baby girl. You know, it's one of those that it's it's hard to capture the feeling.

Malcolm Newsome [00:04:08]:

It's hard to capture the emotion and all of that, But I can see it. You know? I can play it over and over again in my mind, and it's so vivid, but it's also, yes, in slow motion.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:18]:

Oh, I know that the first 3 kids that you had were boys, and you've now had 2 girls as well. Talk to me about the difference And what you had to do to parent and father and maybe a little bit of a different way for your daughters Dan, you may have had to have done with your sons.

Malcolm Newsome [00:04:41]:

One of the things that I told myself fairly early on is that I really wanted to kind of avoid the sort of stereotypical or typical mode of raising a girl, like, You know? So I very intentionally would never call her princess, for example. I was not super into, like, Oh, we're gonna do a bunch of girly things. I really did not wanna do that. And To that end, I decided also early on that so when my first son was born, I gave him the nickname mister chairman. And Then my so when my 2nd child was born, I was like, okay. What's what's that nickname gonna be? And so that ended up being mister president. The third one ended up being mister Monarch. And so now we have this this trend of nicknames, and I and I wanted them to have nicknames that were ones that where they could see themselves in positions of leadership and influence and all that.

Malcolm Newsome [00:05:45]:

And so I I made the decision early that I there like, no. There would be no princess. Like, I'm not using that. And I gave my first daughter The nickname, miss director. And throughout her growing years, I started to realize it doesn't matter what I say because she ends up being girly girl, all about princesses, All about pink and glitter and shiny things and stars, and I'm like, she is who she is, and that was none of my doing because I really tried the hardest I could to to give a different perspective. So, nevertheless, it's fun. In terms of how I parent them differently, I don't know. I it's a hard question to answer From the standpoint of I really have tried my best to mirror what they show me in terms of who they are, even from early ages.

Malcolm Newsome [00:06:45]:

And so if they're into you know, like I just mentioned with my daughter, if, you know, she's into dolls and stuff like that. So, alright, let's Support that, but she will run outside and play in dirt and play in mud and pick up bugs and all that. And so I'm like, alright. I'm here for that too. Right? And She loves gymnastics and flipping and stuff like that. Alright. I'm here for that. And and so what I try to do is let them be who they are and encourage Who they are to the best of my ability.

Christopher Lewis [00:07:16]:

Thanks so much for sharing that. You know, one of the things that a lot of dads have daughters tell me is that When they have their daughters, especially if it's a first time dad, but sometimes if it's a first time father of a daughter, that there's some fear, some fear That goes along with raising daughters and stepping into that new role of being a father to a daughter. What would you say has been your biggest fear In raising

Malcolm Newsome [00:07:41]:

daughters. My biggest fear is knowing that they're growing up in a world in a Society, that is going to devalue them. My biggest fear is evil lurking around the corner. Unfortunately, I rehearse all of the Potential terrible things that happen to women. Everything from cat calls to harassment. And that's not just women, that's girls too. Right? And so that starts at an early age. Those are my biggest fears with regard to raising girls, and so I don't know that that will ever go away, but a lot of the way I parent is to try to plant seeds in them Such that such that they can navigate the cruelties of this world.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:25]:

Now I mentioned the fact that you're a children's author. You work in cybersecurity. You're a busy guy. You've got A lot of things going on, and you've got 5 kids. You're balancing that. You're you're wearing a lot of different hats. Talk to me about balance And what you had to do to be able to balance all of these things that you do with also being able to be that engaged Father that you want to be.

Malcolm Newsome [00:08:50]:

Balance is a hard thing for me. I think that ultimately though, usually, the way I answer that question is The way I think about balance is that often means that there's a lot of things I don't do and there's a lot of things that I cannot do, and so I'm I feel like I'm kind of Often or have often, at least in the past, made intentional decisions to preserve family time, to preserve Creative time to preserve reading time, like those sorts of things. And so that means that I don't regularly go out for night Nights on the town just hanging out with buddies. That that means certain things. That means I don't watch a whole lot of TV or spend a whole lot of time on social media So that I can be present, things like that. So these are intentional trade offs that I make. That means I needed to say no to certain opportunities, Again, to preserve family time and preserve the priorities that I have in my life.

Christopher Lewis [00:09:45]:

Now you mentioned you have 5 kids. I said you have 3 boys and 2 girls. And one of the things that comes to my mind is that every father has to be able to find ways to build those unique relationships with their kids. You've got your 3 boys and 2 girls. Talk to me about what you had to do with your daughters to be able to build those unique relationships With each of them knowing that every child is a little bit different.

Malcolm Newsome [00:10:14]:

Yeah. That's such a good question. Unfortunately, that my wife Also values that, and we both value this, like, individual connection and individual time With our children, and we and so that is something that we think a lot about. And so what we have done is and we really honestly should do it more than we do, but, Usually, it works out to be a couple times a year. We'll we'll do, like, daddy daughter dates or Mom son dates or whatever or just daddy child date sort of thing where even if it's just going to get like, an intentional going to get ice cream With just one of the kids or something like that that set apart something that we don't normally do to try to have individual alone time with our Kids, and I feel like that's probably been the most helpful thing is because once you sort of get Them away from the normalcy of life, you see different sides of them too. They show up in a different way, and it's it's really kind of fascinating to see. So, yes, we try to do that. Things with my daughters, I've done you know, I mentioned ice cream.

Malcolm Newsome [00:11:23]:

We've done daddy daughter dances, stuff like that, Pedicure pedicure dates or just going mini golfing, things like that. Just going out to have some fun.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:32]:

Mentioned at the beginning of the show that you are a children's author. You have a book called Dear Starbaby that you wrote after the loss of 2 unborn children. And I guess first and foremost, What I'd like to do is go back and turn things back just a little bit to have you give me the story. Tell me about the impetus for the book, why you decided you wanted to step into the realm of writing a children's book, But then let's talk about this topic. It's a painful topic. It's a topic that that everybody talks about. Why did you delve into this topic And move into this area to write about this painful topic.

Malcolm Newsome [00:12:16]:

The moment where I put it together that I feel like I have something to say On this topic was when a fellow publishing colleague posted on Twitter just that She had been struggling with her miscarriage, and it was this sort of, we need to talk about this more, and she was kind of Making a bold stance and sharing about it, and it was that sort of like, yeah, you know, nobody talks about this. And That was true of my own experience where when we suffered our 1st major miscarriage, it was Kind of like all of a sudden, I started to find out, like, oh, this person's experienced that too. Oh, this person. Oh, this person. And then But you don't find out until you're going through it. And hopefully, you've you know? And not everyone finds out like that, but and so it was like, wow. There's this whole mystery To this horror that's happening, estimates of, like, 1 in 4 people. And so I had since our first miscarriage, I had done so much processing and had talked to folks here and there that had also lost babies and struggle to mostly men, and I felt like I had at least in those conversations, I felt like I had a perspective that I wanted to share.

Malcolm Newsome [00:13:35]:

And where this Also is important as it relates to the daddy-daughter conversations because our first miscarriage was After our 3rd son was born, and the thing that I struggled with the hardest again, going back to the fact that I always wanted A girl. The thing that I struggled with the hardest was, what if that was my daughter? What if that was her and I never get to meet her? And so through that Pain and that grieving process, that processing, I started to realize that for myself, the hardest part of this whole thing was Confronting the fact that I had an expectation of a future reality that now was not going to be that, Now I had to kind of rectify because, at least for me, when I got the news my wife is pregnant, I'm like, okay. It's a done deal. Pregnancy loss was nowhere on my radar, And so so I start organizing my life around these hopes and dreams, this sort of to me, in my mind, it was like an automatic thing. And yeah. So then I had to regroup. And so a lot of that for me is also representative book, the Kind of wondering and wishing the hopes, the dealing with, I wonder what this could have been, but it's not going to be that anymore. That was the hardest thing for me, and that's what I also try to represent in the book, where which I felt like maybe others Would resonate with as well.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:03]:

No. You're completely right that when you talk about this topic, it's not something that many men talk about. I've heard women talk about it, and it seems like there is community around women that they can find and support for women as they go through That process for themselves, but a lot of men seem to bottle it up. And they don't always Surround themselves with support in that regard. For you personally, as you were going through that for yourself, how did you find support? And how did you find that support and balance that support for yourself while at the same time your wife was dealing with her own loss And you were dealing with that together. So in all of that, you and your wife were grieving.

Malcolm Newsome [00:15:50]:

I think the reality is I probably would not have done it very well had it not been for a couple of really good folks That I had in my life. And because, let's face it, one of the things about our society is that most of us are taught as men To just like, you gotta move forward. You gotta take care of everything. You gotta make sure the family's good. You gotta make sure there's a sort of sentiment that, at least, I grew up with That that you don't you don't buckle under pressure. You just need to keep going. Right? And I think, at least in my experience personally and my experience talking with other men, is that they've Felt similarly and that it's almost this sort of sentiment that we grew up with that there's no time for grieving. You gotta push through and be the support, And like I said, fortunately, it worked out for me in that the job I had at the time, the woman who was running our HR, I let her know because, you know, I go into work, and I'm like, alright.

Malcolm Newsome [00:16:50]:

This is what's happening. I need a little bit of time off here, and She recognized correctly, and she asked me if she could connect me with another guy who at the company who had experienced Loss as well. And she got my approval for that. I said, sure. Yeah. I'm happy to check with him and see if he's willing to share all this. And So almost right away, I had another male and somebody that I respected and trusted that I could connect with. He provided resources.

Malcolm Newsome [00:17:21]:

He he was a sounding board. He was somebody that I could talk to, connect with. And so I felt like I was kinda lucky in that regard Because it's so much the norm that, to your point, men are sort of left out of the equation even today that Men are sort of forgotten about. No one really checks on them, see how you're doing, etcetera, etcetera. But, yes, my experience was kind of, In many ways, the opposite of that, in that I had the I had the good fortune of connecting with this, another man who had dealt with it, and he checked in on me for For some length of time, and that was a beautiful thing.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:58]:

Now as you and your wife were grieving, you're also a family. And as parents, You're grieving the loss of your child, but you're also parenting your other kids. And they may or may not understand what's going on Depending on how much they knew about the pregnancy upfront. So talk a little bit about that. So talk a little bit about that And how you and your wife had to help your kids process this. And it might be that it was this book that helped you process and help them to be able to understand what was going on. But how did you deal with this And help your kids through that loss.

Malcolm Newsome [00:18:38]:

It was one of those things that we did the best we could because we went Looking for resources, and there were none in terms of how do you address this with kids. None that we found anyway. And The the the the sort of the premise of the book is taken exactly from that experience of us sharing With our young boys at the time, they had been asking for a new sibling. As a part of their Christmas gifts That year, let them know, like, that's how we announced it to them, was on Christmas. And Then we fast forward, you know, about a month, and that's when the loss occurred. And so now we had to we it was basically, like, taking we had to, like, Take their Christmas gift back. And so the conversation is hard on its own, but when you layer it When you layer on that sort of excitement that we had built up, that additional excitement, there was no playbook for us. There was no playbook, and that set the stage for the premise or plot of this book of, hey, child's excited, And then all of a sudden, we've gotta break the news to them.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:53]:

Now you also mentioned that you found resources for yourself, some of which had been shared with you from your colleague at your work. I'm sure there were some other resources that your wife found for herself. Were some of the most beneficial resources that you found for your wife, for your kids, for you that existed and maybe still exist?

Malcolm Newsome [00:20:14]:

You know, the funny thing is I don't remember the titles, and largely because they were not resources for me. They were mostly resources for my wife that I kind of read bits and pieces of. And the biggest help for me at that point in time was The connection with this other guy that we got a chance to talk through it. But, yeah, the unfortunately, I don't remember titles, all that. It ended up being this thing where I had to for me, it was the conversation. And then just for me, it was Recognizing that I needed to process, and I remember making a very intentional decision to Not push it down, but to really sort of work my way through it mentally to keep it there and to Try to figure out, okay, what what are my big struggles here? And, again, that came out through the conversations. So While I would not call it therapy, it sort of filled that void, or I suppose helped in a way that, like, therapy would.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:19]:

Now I mentioned at the beginning of this book that you have a new book coming out called Sydney's Big speech, and that book, as you told me, is very tied into being a dad to a daughter. Tell me more about the book, and what What made you decide to move into another children's book in a completely different topic?

Malcolm Newsome [00:21:37]:

What folks will probably see of me as they follow my kind of publishing journey is that many of my early books are sort of like family, daddy daughter sort of themed, or at least There's these sort of there's these sort of overlays between, like, the dad and daughter relationship, and that's coming out of a couple places. That's coming out of this, My love for children, that's coming on my love for family and especially being a girl dad, but they're also still young. My youngest Right now I was 4, and I learned early that the time that it takes to publish a picture book from from when that book is acquired is typically about 2 years. And so a lot of my early inspiration or that first story well, motivation for For even pursuing publishing in the 1st place was that I wanted my kids to have I wanted my kids to have access to some things that I've That felt like was not entering the world and probably would never enter the world. And so I'm kind of writing for them, but I'm writing also for Those that might be similar to them in some ways, or I'm writing for this sort of projection of what if They are this way. What sort of message do I wanna leave for them? And that was Sydney's big speech. That's where Sydney's big speech came from. It came from this place of Girls, especially black girls, tend to be put into this place of, like the Stereotype is that typically they're loud, boisterous, and then from there, there's a sort of Projection in terms of what they might do in their lives.

Malcolm Newsome [00:23:22]:

This is a societal kind of thing that I'm speaking to. I wanted to cut through that, And I grew up with and around, like, my mom and my sister, for example, that were not boisterous. They were very quiet, Much more introverted, but yet they'd still did phenomenal things, and I wanted to show that. And also the backdrop, I'm thinking I don't know what my daughters are gonna be like. I don't know if they're gonna be more quiet or introverted or if they will struggle with public speaking or anything like that. So on the chance that they do, I want them to have this story. And that's effectively what the story is about. It is Sydney who is, on her 1st day of school.

Malcolm Newsome [00:24:09]:

She needs to stand up and introduce herself. She freezes, and the words won't come out. Right? And so then the story then becomes about she gets she gets this assignment to give a speech, And the story then becomes about her process of, like, she knows what she wants to say, but will she be able to say the things That she really wants to say, and they're very big things. Where where the dad part comes in is She and her dad have this special bond, and he's the one who encourages encourages her and presents her with some famous luminaries and shows them their speeches. These are speeches from Carol Moseley Braun, Condoleezza Rice, Shirley Chisholm and vice president Kamala Harris. So it's a way of taking inspiration from These phenomenal black women who have transcended who have left marks indelible marks on America's history, but along the way, they They sort of also had to overcome certain things as well. So that's the premise, and we don't see other parts of their They're family in this. It's really just Sydney and her dad and the special relationship that they have.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:34]:

Love the concept. Love the perspective as well. One of the things that I wonder when I think about this is for this book as well as your previous book. You have your own sounding board right there at home to share the stories with. What kind of response have you gotten in from your kids For both of the stories that you are putting out into the world.

Malcolm Newsome [00:25:57]:

Some stories I share with them and some I don't. The Dear Star Baby, I did not share with them while it was in development, but I did share it with them after we got the physical copies. And This was very instrumental for my older daughter because we also had not really talked to her about miscarriage and about our the loss of the children that we had. And so this was also Her first introduction to pregnancy loss and the reality that she's got some siblings in the stars. And the way that she experienced the book, internalized it, and then would Talk about it would bring me to tears because it's like, okay, she got it. And I remember one moment where we were leaving a restaurant, and this was After I had the book maybe for about a month or so, and I had to read read the story to her several times. But We're leaving a restaurant. She points up to a star in the sky, and she's like, that's our star baby right there.

Malcolm Newsome [00:27:04]:

And I was like, oh, man. Like, you almost took me out. You know? Like, I was almost out for the count right there, but so that was Amazing. Sydney's big speech, this is another one that I know I shared it with them. Once I got the the digital work, I did read it to them, and they enjoyed it. I think it's also gonna be one that when they have that book in their hands, they'll be able to experience it in a different way. Kids oftentimes are very tactile, so it's a little bit different, like, when you're reading something on a screen versus holding in the hands, and they can flip through it and they Take time and point to the thing and all that. But a part of this experience that they don't really know and that I'll be able to share with them is that in my early drafts of writing this story, I would I would be holding 1 of them or 2 of them, whatever, would be, like, in my lap doing whatever, watching TV or whatever, and I'm, like, drafting it on my phone While I'm with them and so there was one moment in particular with my youngest who was still an infant at the time where I'm, like, holding her in my lap, and this was the very 1st draft.

Malcolm Newsome [00:28:17]:

I finished the story. It's like the last line, and I just start weeping, sobbing. And this is not something that she'll remember necessarily because she was an infant at the time, but that's how much the story meant to me. And this is now a sort of legacy that I'll be able to share with her because I was thinking of her As I was writing this, every line was for them, and that conclusion was like, okay. There it is. And I can't wait to share that story with them, like, when we get the physical copies, and then I read it to them.

Christopher Lewis [00:28:55]:

Oh, this book sounds like a book that is definitely going to be a special one for the family. I appreciate you sharing that. And I look forward to seeing the new book hitting the shelves and being able to encourage others to read this for their families, for their kids, Because I know it's going to help them in many different ways. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood five, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a Dad, are you ready?

Malcolm Newsome [00:29:23]:

Alright. I'm ready.

Christopher Lewis [00:29:24]:

In one word, what is fatherhood? Love. When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter? Haven't. Now if I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad? Silly. Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Malcolm Newsome [00:29:41]:

My dad.

Christopher Lewis [00:29:42]:

Now you've given a number of pieces of advice, number of things that you've learned along the way. As you think about all dads out there, What's one thing that you'd want to leave with every dad?

Malcolm Newsome [00:29:54]:

I think probably 2 things come to mind, and that is the first is I believe what our families need the most from us is the real, True vulnerable us, and when we show up that way, they get to see our love, our passion, But they also get to see where we struggle. They also get to see our fears, those sorts of things. Patience is another thing that I'm kind of I feel like I'm constantly working on, but that I encourage and exhort other males just patience, especially with young kids. Well, all kids, Patient. And then the 3rd is pursue wisdom, and the reason why I say that is because Our world is loaded with so much. Our perceptions have been shaped, you know, really by the world mostly, right, our society. And The only way that I think we can really combat that is to spend time with that and, like, dissect. Okay.

Malcolm Newsome [00:30:56]:

Where did this come from? Does this have to be true? Does this have to be true of my children or my family And all that. And so that, I think, comes from pursuing wisdom.

Christopher Lewis [00:31:06]:

Malcolm, I just want to say thank you for sharing what you've shared today, for putting it out there. If people wanna find out more about you, where's the best place for them to go?

Malcolm Newsome [00:31:16]:

You can find me on most of the socials, primarily Instagram And now threads. I'm not as active on x, but you can also and that's just Malcolm Newsom at any of those, malcolm.newsom. I also have a website, malcolmnewsom.com, which is also very easy to find me there. And If nothing else, then you could either Google Dear Star Baby or Sydney's Big Speech, and you'll find me as a result of those. And I should mention too that Sydney's Big Speech will be out will officially release in February, but presales Are available now anywhere books are sold.

Christopher Lewis [00:31:57]:

Again, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here, for sharing all that you've gone through as a father, And I wish you all the best.

Malcolm Newsome [00:32:04]:

Alright. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Christopher Lewis [00:32:06]:

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are Figuring it out as they go along. And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step road maps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, But more importantly, dads like you. So check it out at fathering together.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together.

Christopher Lewis [00:32:55]:

We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

Malcolm Newsome [00:33:04]:

We're all in the same boat, and it's full of tiny passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. Astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and be

In this episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we welcome Cordan James, the newly appointed executive director of Fathering Together, a 501(c)(3) organization that is the host of this podcast. 

Cordan James is a father of three, one of whom is a daughter and he opens up about his journey into fatherhood, sharing his excitement upon learning he would be a father to a girl. He recounts his preparations, both financial and mental, and the steps he took to ensure he was ready to provide and protect for his family, emphasizing the importance of mental health in his journey as a father. Cordan reflects on his past experiences as an army veteran dealing with PTSD and the importance of maintaining his mental well-being as a parent.

The conversation also discusses fears that fathers often experience in raising daughters, with Cordan acknowledging the fear of failure and the concern about maintaining a strong bond as his daughter grows older. He highlights the significance of intentional parenting and creating a unique connection with his daughter. Cordan elaborates on the special activities and shared experiences that have strengthened their bond, from touching moments and engaging in activities to volunteering together as a family.

The discussion further explores how Cordan balances the demands of work, running his own business, and being the executive director of Fathering Together while prioritizing his family and centering his life around them. Cordan's approach to work and family life allows for effective balance and aligns with the organization's mission.

Cordan shares his journey into the Fathering Together communities and the impact they had on his perspective of fatherhood. He attributes his decision to become the executive director to the example set by other fathers and the dedication to fatherhood that he witnessed within the community. He discusses his vision for the organization, emphasizing the importance of equality, breaking the stigma around fatherhood, and supporting fathers in being intentional in their roles. Cordan underlines the significance of fathers knowing they are enough and having a support system to drive positive change in the perception of fatherhood.

In conclusion, Christopher acknowledges the ongoing work required to change the perception of fatherhood and praises Cordan for stepping into the role of executive director to lead the organization into its next phase. The episode is a testament to the importance of fathers' roles in parenting and the community's dedication to supporting one another on this shared journey.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to Dads With Daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughters' lives, raising them to be strong, Independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We have an opportunity to be able to Talk together, work together to be able to support each other in this journey that we're on in raising daughters. Such an important journey, such an important job that we all have in being fathers of daughters. And I love being able to sit down with you every week, to be able to have these conversations, to be able to work with you and talk to you, to hear from you About the things that you are dealing with, the struggles that you're dealing with, whatever it may be. Every week, I also love being able to bring you different guests. People that are walking this journey alongside you or have resources that'll help you to be an even more engaged dad, A better father in the end.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]:

And this week, we've got another great guest with us. Corden James is with us today. And Corden is the brand new executive director of Fathering Together. We've been talking about Fathering Together for years, And Fathering Together is the five zero one c three organization that this podcast is a part of. And Corden joined our organization, Okay. Actually, quite a while ago, but joined us as the executive director just recently. And we're gonna get to know him a little bit more. But first and foremost, We've got to get to know him more as a father first, Cordan, thanks so much for being here today.

Cordan James [00:01:52]:

Absolutely. Honored to be here, Chris.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:54]:

It is my pleasure having you here today. I love being able to talk to different dads about the experiences that they've had. You got 3 kids, one of which is a daughter. I wanna go back in time. I wanna turn that clock all the way back to that 1st moment that you found out that you were going to be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Cordan James [00:02:10]:

I was excited. I've always wanted to have my daughter. Just as soon as I found out, I, you know, I started the books and finding out all I could about raising a girl. First of all, just having a baby, period, and what my goals and responsibilities are. And then, you know, from that kind of plan in my legacy as far as being a father to her, getting myself set up and financially stable and my mental health in the right place. And yeah.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:33]:

When you said that you needed to get your mental health in the right place, talk to me about that. What did that what does that mean to you, and what did you have to do to prepare yourself?

Cordan James [00:02:40]:

Well, Chris, I am an army veteran. I, you know, spent 5 years active duty army. So when I speak of mental health was really making sure that I had my anxiety in check, my PTSD that I experienced at war and just from life, being able to just find my calmness, find my spirituality, And, you know, I think most of all, just being able to to be present for fatherhood. You know? There's no there's no workbook when it comes to raising children, Raising a daughter. I'm used to raising boys, and I think that's a it's a different approach raising a daughter.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:14]:

As a veteran, as someone that has dealt with PTSD. There are other dads that are dealing with that as well, and some may have Dealt with it and and really worked through it. Others may have set it to the side and are still working through it themselves. Talk to me about the journey that you had to go on and what you had to do to prepare yourself and get through, Like you said, in getting yourself mentally ready, but to work through that PTSD that that you Have in your life. And I say have, because I know that it's a constant journey. But talk to me about what you had, what you have to do on a daily basis, On a regular basis, what you had to do prior to your daughter being born to be able to work through that PTSD.

Cordan James [00:04:03]:

Absolutely. I think coming home from Iraq, it started off with Therapy. Being able to meet with my VA therapist on a regular basis, setting that up. I would say another important thing for me was, fitness, Being able to to check my health, being on a regular workout schedule, and, you know, some of the other things like doing things for myself. I think after serving in the military, you know, there's 1% of us Serve in the military, so it's not like I'm able to walk around every day with people that who share the same experiences as I do. So that, you know, that vetting myself, Finding security within my own self, getting on a great schedule that took care of me first before I'm able to pour out for my children and my my partner at her mother, you know, that it took reading some books on how to how to speak to children, you know, on how to to get to their level, to bring a level of understanding. The normal development of a child was important for me to understand. Right? Having anxiety and PTSD.

Cordan James [00:04:57]:

Sometimes, you know, screaming from a child can be very triggering. When you're not able to control the situation, you're not able to calm my child down. Those are things that I faced as a father.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:07]:

So in having this in your life And having this as something that you're constantly working on. How do you talk to your kids about PTSD And what you're dealing with, because mental health is not easy to talk to anyone about, but let alone when you live with individuals or have people in their life and they don't understand what's going on. So how do you or how have you Been able to talk to your kids about this so that they understand it and that they understand what you're going through.

Cordan James [00:05:38]:

I think probably the one of the most pivotal times for me was In waking up with my child, kinda had a rough start to to the day, and I was having a very rough time commuting with her. And I had just looked looked in the very back of the seat, and I told her, hey. Hey, baby. Daddy's gotta process something, and it's gonna it's gonna look differently than what you're used to seeing, but I feel like I'm gonna cry. And at that time, I had I had found out about Emotional freedom techniques or tapping. And so I had let her know that if daddy's gonna process something, that I'm okay, but I'm gonna tap and let these emotions out. And I went through that. She asked if I was okay.

Cordan James [00:06:12]:

I ended I did end up breaking down, having some tears and some some calming affirmations to reassure myself that I was in a safe place And that I was okay. And I think the you know, we talk about modeling as a parent, modeling the behavior of processing my emotion. Right? I set aside time to process it. I did my tapping, which is my self care, right, caring for myself. You know? And I think where most paid off was a few weeks later, I remember hearing her get frustrated, and, I looked over at her, and she actually began to do the exact same tapping that I was doing. And so I think, you know, she's 9 now. I wouldn't say that she necessarily understands PTSD, but she does understand that when there is an emotion, that you process That you feel it so you can heal it. And I think that's been the most powerful thing between us.

Cordan James [00:06:57]:

It's improved our communication styles. It's improved my ability to say that I'm Sorry for overreacting or or projecting something that I may be feeling onto her. So it's made for a great communication the older that she gets.

Christopher Lewis [00:07:10]:

Talk to a lot of dads about having daughters, and one of the things that I hear from a lot of dads is that there are fears When it comes to not only fatherhood, but especially fears when it comes to raising a daughter. Now you said earlier that You knew how to raise a son, but that you needed to learn about how to raise a daughter. So as you think about Fear. Can you think about raising your daughter? What was the biggest fear or is the biggest fear that you have in raising your daughter? You know,

Cordan James [00:07:39]:

I think in all the conversations with other fathers, I think I would have to Echo the fear of failure. I remember some work that we did together a couple years ago, Chris. We asked, what would you not want your children to say about you or about your parenting? Right? And I think being able to be there so, you know, I would never want my children to say that I wasn't there, that I wasn't present, that I constantly use these opportunities to teach Instead of to get to know them, the fear of failure with her, I think, comes from I think everybody loves to tell me that As your daughter grows older, that she's gonna fall away from you, that there's going to be this huge disruption in life and she's not gonna like you. And I think as a young father, that was very daunting That this relationship could dwindle as she gets older. I think it really put it in the perspective of the work that I'm doing with her today, and I call it work because it's very intentional with her. From the way that I speak to her to the way that I stand around her when she was smaller. She's kinda tall now. She's 9 and she's 5 foot.

Cordan James [00:08:36]:

So she comes to the bottom of my chin. But as she was younger, you know, it it took me getting down to a knee. They say, you know, getting down to their level as you are the Parent, get down to their level, and they might hear you a little bit differently and better and and receive what you're saying more. Little things like that helped me soften my approach with her gave me I you know, it allowed room for more play, more discussion, for more ways to connect, whether it was painting nails together or Playing in the park or our favorite thing to do is literally walking on curbing, walking on the sidewalk and the very you know, the little curves. I don't know why, but we've just always had this little special moment. We can do that for hours and just laugh and, you know, just connect with each other.

Christopher Lewis [00:09:16]:

Now you have 3 kids. Each one of them is completely unique. They are different points in their lives, and you have to do what you can do to be able to develop those unique relationships With your kids, what do you do to be able to create that unique bond with your daughter?

Cordan James [00:09:32]:

I think that's a great question. If I had to look on a day to day, I say, Especially now, it's a habit of finding a way to connect with her no matter what. And whether it's when I pick her up from boys you know, if we start in the morning, I take her to boys and girls club. As soon as we wake up, it's very intentional with Hey, baby. How did you sleep? We get our cuddles in. We're very big cuddlers. So, you know, that's something that's part of our security is is Touching and hugging and kissing and yelling I love yous and the music choices, having little dance parties. Those are constants in our home.

Cordan James [00:10:02]:

That is just part of our Family culture now. So when I say connecting, especially as she gets older nowadays at 9, it's I hosted a sleepover last week. She had her best friend over and, you know, I had a girl's night with them, and then we had a great morning the next day. Their friend left, but Just providing creating new spaces for her to grow. It might be asking something very specific about her day. Definitely don't allow for just the, how was your day? Oh, it was good. Well, I wanna know a little bit more, so I'm gonna ask some questions that are open ended and and joke with her and and find some commonality. I think, at this point.

Cordan James [00:10:38]:

I appreciate the ways that we connect, and I appreciate the way that it comes back as well. She's definitely a little mama. She'll if dad's sick, she'll look after me. If sometimes she wants to Feed dad while we're eating dinner. She wants to feed me fries or something along those lines. So just those beautiful ways that I would never expect her to do those things for me, but she has it in her heart and in her soul. Other things we've done to connect is, like, community service. A few years ago, we faced a divorce Together and the separation of that in different homes and coparenting schedules, and I found that volunteering together was our biggest Connection.

Cordan James [00:11:15]:

I didn't have the money in the world to be able to take her to to do everything, but we would go to churches and volunteer our time, setting up pantries, Feeding the homeless, litter pickups. She got very involved in my own work as a mover or even as a mentor. She's been present for all my mentorships And business meetings and and thrills so forth.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:38]:

Sounds like special bonds and special times and definitely an opportunity to be able to make those connections and memories that will last for a lifetime, which is always exciting and important. You're really busy. You're a busy guy. You have got a lot of things going on. You You're running a business. You're now the executive director of Fathering Together. So there's a lot of things that you're gonna have to balance, a lot of hats that you have to wear. How do you balance work and raising your kids?

Cordan James [00:12:04]:

It's interesting because if we look at the history of Korten James and fathering together, So about 2019 is when I processed my divorce, and 2019 is when I also found Dads With Daughters. So it has very much led me to be this executive director. And I say that from the sense that since I joined fathering together, I've centered family first. My life today as a entrepreneur and now as the executive director of of Fathering Together, my family is still the center, more so today than it ever has been. I worked more corporate America, and it never fared well. I was always the father that would be present for my daughter didn't go to dentist without me. She didn't go to doctor's It's without me being able to pick up from school or if there's a sick day, I'm present for it. I would say so Over the few years, it's been a I've been able to center around my kids.

Cordan James [00:12:56]:

As a as a entrepreneur now owning my own business, I can take the day off. We can take a mental health day today. She's 9 now, so she can come to work with me. I have plenty of opportunities where she comes to work with me on a Saturday for a couple of hours and move some boxes my customers and tells my employees that she's the boss of them because her dad's the boss. So just, again, centering family first has has always been the priority, and finally being able to make that come true amongst the fears of not being able to. As a father, again, somebody who has to provide and protect, You can't just drop the job. You can't take large risks that may cost you your time with your children. So it's definitely paid off over these last few years.

Cordan James [00:13:38]:

Now it's I'm I'm home when I want to be with enough time for her and I. My evenings are set aside and I, and, it couldn't be a better feeling.

Christopher Lewis [00:13:48]:

You started getting into your journey with dads with daughters, dads with sons, fathering together. Talk to me let's go back to 2019. What was going on that led you to the communities? What how did you find out about the communities, and how did you get involved first as you were joining our communities?

Cordan James [00:14:10]:

Honestly, I think I might have connected with Brian somehow on Facebook. I don't know if we actually talked to each other or if I found Dads With Daughters first. I'm pretty sure he invited me into Dads With Daughters. And from there, we became friends and talked more, and I finally was able to meet you. And, You know, I think it was just when I look at Dads With Daughters, the Facebook group, I don't even know how many thousands of people were in that. So it was very it was very grassroots. There was new projects. I think we were starting off with Dove Men's Care.

Cordan James [00:14:41]:

I always recall the self esteem project that we did with them, which was kinda like my 1st intentional thing with my child. I think we talked a lot about fathers knowing their legacy as far as careers, But what is your legacy as a father? So I think it was all those conversations that brought me to a deeper understanding of who I really want to be as a dad. Not just My child's here, and we're gonna go day by day. But just an intentionality to my thought process, the way that I speak, and it drives everything of who I am as a dad today. So just great conversations, the groups, more conversations with Brian, watching you and Brian raise your daughters who are older than mine. I think for once in my life, I actually had like minded individuals when it came to fatherhood. Fathers who, you know, intergenerational, who knew what they were doing and why they were doing it. Being able to hear their mistakes and their triumphs Gave me a better perspective on what I wanna do and how I wanna be.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:38]:

So you're sharing that. Now over the years, you got more involved. You Started to engage with other people. And at some point, you decided that you wanted to take that next step to, be considered for the executive director role. What made you decide that you wanted to take this larger step To lead the organization into the future.

Cordan James [00:16:00]:

I mean, this sounds cliche, but first of all, the example that you and Brian set as fathers has always been motivational, inspirational to me. In my work since 2019, I'll be you know, starting my own businesses and becoming a youth and family mentor, teaching social emotional learning, and And learning peer support and having I think it was you know what? I think it was it was a lot of the leadership opportunities that Brian and you gave Within the group, from different speaking engagements, the different panels, the workshops that we held, just and then just to find that there's more fathers, there's new fathers, there's Other fathers out there that are looking for much of the same. So I think this vision today of having our school based chapters and our community chapters And our online our virtual presence and our in person presence just makes sense. Fatherhood is definitely again, My life my number one is fatherhood, and then my work comes second. And I think being able to not only teach and learn alongside other brothers Has been good for my mental health. I think today as the executive director, it's beautiful just as you know, whether it's different post within the group of dads looking For support or whether it's a a children's issues or child support or just basic support for the day to day grind of being a father, It's the narrative that we continue to talk about. Just wanting to push that further and further into new areas, into new homes, And being able to mix with mothers as a lot of my work before as a youth and family mentor started off with mothers who typically didn't have fathers present. It's just that dedication to fatherhood realizing that the work that we do today matters.

Cordan James [00:17:40]:

And I think on a global level, we're creating Spaces and making changes for things that we may never see happen. But it takes all of us at the table to have these conversations. So hats off to you.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:51]:

I appreciate you say saying that, and and it's definitely been a labor of love for Brian and I. But, definitely, as You step into this role, and now that you're in this role, and as you look at the organization and you have a vision in your mind Where you are hoping to lead the organization and work with the board of fathering together to lead it forward. What is your vision. Where are you leading the organization, and what are you hoping that fathering together can do In the future

Cordan James [00:18:20]:

It's about equality, I think, at this point. We are at the table with mothers and fathers, speaking about our rights, Speaking about the roles that we have in the home, I would love to continue to see fathers understanding their roles alongside their partners, Alongside their children, again, it's the intentionality of being a father that I most enjoy with this this vision of fatherhood is fathers who are intentional in what they're doing, fathers who are supported. Also, this vision of being able to break that stigma around fatherhood that we aren't just breadwinners. I love that you guys are are so extravagant on that point, That we are more than breadwinners, that we are more than our suits and ties, that we are more than our careers. I think it's important that fathers know that they're enough, That they have all that they need, and I think a support system to change excuse me. A support system to support these new changes It's just the pinnacle of what fatherhood needs.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:13]:

Definitely have a ways to go. There's not a right answer here, but it's definitely 1 step at a time and we move forward Just as that in regard to the fact that, you know, we have to we have to do the good work. We have to Build those relationships, build the connections, and be able to move the organization forward. And I appreciate that you were willing to step forward to lead the organization into the next phase of its existence. It's important for an organization like this to have different thoughts, different ideas, different Perspectives that can be shared by so many, and we work very hard to have a very diverse board that that we can utilize to be able to help us do that too, and I know that you're gonna be able to help us in so many different ways. Now we always finish our interview with what I like to call our fatherhood five, where we ask you 5 more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Cordan James [00:20:07]:

Yes, sir.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:08]:

In one word, what is fatherhood?

Cordan James [00:20:10]:

The first word that came to mind was leadership. I feel that on a daily basis, whether it's starting the day getting her off Or just when she's asleep at night, knowing that she's feeling loved and safe and that she's had a good day, that she's educated, And she has a beautiful relationship with her mother, and we have a beautiful co parenting relationship. Yeah. I think on a daily basis, I feel The sense of accomplishment in raising her.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:37]:

If I was to talk to your daughter, how would she describe you as a dad?

Cordan James [00:20:41]:

I would think she would say her dad is a goofball. I don't think she takes me too serious these days. I think she would say that she knows that she's loved, Does she know she can always come to her father?

Christopher Lewis [00:20:53]:

Fires you to be a better dad.

Cordan James [00:20:55]:

You know what? I have again, I have to bring this back to fathering together. It's the fathers in fathering together. When I log in Every day, several times a day, and I see the 127,000 dads we have in Dads with Daughters, and I read through the you know, I approve the post. I think it's great that we get approved the post because I get to see them first, so that's always a gift. Once it's approved, you know that there's gonna be a unanimous amount of support. There's gonna be different opinions, but that is always gonna be respectful. And I think I look forward to to seeing more fathers, to hearing their stories As those challenge me to be a a more calmer father, to be a more intentional father, they challenge me to be more present, and that's all I can ask for.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:34]:

Given a lot of piece of advice today. As we finish up today, what's 1 piece of advice that you'd want to give to every dad?

Cordan James [00:21:41]:

One piece of advice I would Give to every dad would be to take care of yourself. Look out for you look out for yourself. I think I think we have to get back to having a healthy outlet. You know, I think oftentimes we're on this go you know, I always think about how I'm always on as a father. I'm always tuned in to my kids. I'm always working for my kids. I'm finding new ways to support my partner in raising our children or duties around the home, And I think a lot of dads that I see need a moment to take care of themselves, whether it's, you know, a good gym routine, their spirituality, Being able to talk to a therapist, being able to have a good friend around to listen to you, to call upon, to rescue you at times as a man, Take care of yourself.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:27]:

Oh, Cordan, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your journey with your daughter, but also Thank you for stepping up and being willing to step into the executive director role for Fathering Together. We're really excited To have you on board, to have you a part of fathering together, and to lead the organization forward, and I wish you all the best.

Cordan James [00:22:49]:

Excellent. Thank you so much. It's been an honor to be here. It's an honor to lead forward fathering together, and I look forward to what we continue to do more of.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:57]:

The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best Dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, Step by step road maps and more. You will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out atfatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:40]:

We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters And be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy Add in presents and bring your a game because those kids are growing fast. The time Buzz by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, Be the best dad you can be. Be the best

In this episode of the "Dads with Daughters" podcast, host Christopher Lewis welcomes author and parenting expert Michelle Icard. The podcast aims to provide resources and support to help fathers be the best they can be in raising strong, independent daughters.

Christopher introduces Michelle Icard, highlighting her extensive experience as a writer and her focus on parenting topics. Michelle is the author of several books, including "14 Talks by Age 14," "Middle School Makeover," and her newest book, "Eight Setbacks that can make a child a Success." She's also a parent herself, with two young adult children.

Michelle shares her journey into writing and parenting support. She mentions that her initial foray into writing was sparked by a teacher who recognized her writing skills when she was a 9th grader. This experience helped her identify herself as a writer, even though it wasn't her primary focus at the time. She later developed a social leadership curriculum for middle schoolers, which became the basis for her first book.

The conversation transitions into discussing Michelle's focus on middle school children and the challenges they face during that developmental stage. She explains that middle school is a critical time when kids are building their adult brains, bodies, and identities, which can lead to both internal and external struggles. She emphasizes the importance of understanding this transformative process.

The podcast delves into Michelle's book "14 Talks by Age 14," where she provides practical guidance for parents on how to approach essential conversations with their children, from topics like sex and sexuality to friendship and risk-taking. The book includes conversation scripts, conversation starters, and tips for initiating discussions with children who might not always be receptive.

The conversation evolves to discuss Michelle's latest book, "Eight Setbacks that can make a child a Success." Michelle explains that she identified eight archetypal setbacks that children commonly face during their development. These setbacks include the rebel, the daredevil, the misfit, the ego, the loner, the sensitive one, the black sheep, and the benchwarmer. She emphasizes that children may move through different archetypes at various stages of their lives. Michelle's three-step approach to handling setbacks—contain, resolve, and evolve—is discussed in detail.

The podcast highlights that the book is not just for parents of middle schoolers; it's relevant for parents with children aged 8 to 18. Christopher emphasizes the longevity of the lessons Michelle provides, which continue to be applicable as children grow into young adults.

Michelle expresses her desire for parents to feel relief after reading her book. She wants parents to understand that the challenges their children face are part of the normal developmental process. She emphasizes that mistakes and setbacks are opportunities for growth and learning.

Christopher encourages listeners to connect with Michelle through her website, michelleicard.com, and her Instagram profile. He also mentions her Facebook group, "Less Stressed Middle School Parents," which is relevant for parents of middle school and high school children.

The episode concludes with a message of encouragement for parents to embrace the challenges and setbacks their children face, recognizing that these experiences contribute to their growth into capable, confident adults.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads resources and more to help you be the best dad you can be. Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week you and I are on a journey together and it's a great opportunity for us to be able to talk one on one about the journey that you're on and raising your daughters, it's not always going to be easy. It's not always going to be a simple journey. There's going to be bumps in the road, but that's why we're here. We're here to walk alongside you as you go through this and hopefully give you some tips, some hints, some resources, some things that you can draw on, some tools for that toolbox that you carry with you that will help you in that journey that you're on.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:03]:

Every week I bring you different guests, different people from different walks of life, dads, moms, other resources that will help you to be able to do just that. And that's what this show is all about. This show is all about helping you to walk this journey. And I am so happy that every week I get to have that opportunity with you. This week, we've got another great guest with us today. Michelle Eichert is with us today. And Michelle has written for the Today Show Parenting Team, NBC News, Learn, CNN Science and Wellness and The Washington Post. She's the author of a few different books, one called 14 Talks by Age 14 and Middle School Makeover.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:46]:

And we're also going to be talking about a brand new book that she has written called Eight Setbacks that can make a child a Success. And I'm really excited to be able to talk to her because she is a parent herself. She has two young adult children, and also all these topics are definitely relevant to the journey that thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to chat our parenting experience. So Michelle, thanks so much for being here today. I'm really excited to be able to have you on and to talk about not only the new book, but some of these other books too, because I think all of these topics are ones that we probably could have multiple podcast episodes on because they're definitely issues and things that we deal with as parents. I guess first and foremost, I'd love to go back. I said that you have a brand new book that you have called Eight Setbacks that can make a child a success.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:48]:

But before we jump into that, you've had three different books that you have written and I would love to kind of go back in time because all of these are talking about kids, they're talking about parents, they're talking about working with kids. Talk to me a little bit about your background that led you to wanting to be a writer. Because I've written books, I know how much time and effort it takes, and it is definitely a passion project to get these things done. So talk to me about the journey and what made you decide you wanted to be an author. T

Michelle Icard [00:03:55]:

The first book came out in 2015. Prior to that book, I had been working in this field with young adolescents and their parents and their schools because I had developed a curriculum, which I called a social leadership curriculum, and it was for middle schoolers, and it started in 2004. So my kids were two and four at the time. My kids are now 21 and 23, so they have really grown up through all of this and have been wonderful guinea pigs for me personally and professionally to help me figure things out. But I started not thinking that I would write a book. I always knew that I loved writing. And I will say that there was a moment in my life when I was a 9th grader and I felt like most 9th graders probably do, which is I had a big question mark as to who I was. And I didn't really know who to be friends with or how I wanted to present myself or what I thought about things. I was really floundering. And we were given an assignment in 9th grade English to write a short biography, a two page story from our life, and I did it. And I was a nervous kid. I was a very anxious, nervous kid, as probably many writers were.

Michelle Icard [00:04:33]:

And so I handed in my paper, and it came back with all these red marks on it. And I panicked because this happened to be a teacher at our school who was known for being very loud and very aggressive, and he might throw a book across the room. The teachers could do that kind of thing. And so I saw the red marks, and I thought, oh, please let me just be swallowed up by the earth. I can't take it. And at the top of the paper, he had written a minus you are a writer, period. And everything changed for me in that moment. I thought, oh, my gosh, this is who I am.

Michelle Icard [00:05:08]:

Thank goodness someone told me who I am, because often we're afraid of giving kids labels, but I tell you, sometimes it's wonderful to be told. I think you're a blank. I think you're a diplomat, I think you're a writer, I think you're a musician, I think you're an artist, I think you're an attorney. I think whatever. That felt so good for me. But in any event, I tucked that away as just sort of a pleasure practice. I liked to write kind of for fun. I did this curriculum, so it was more businessy writing than anything, and then I was giving a lot of talks about the program and the effect it was having on kids.

Michelle Icard [00:05:45]:

And parents were saying, we love that you have this for our kids, but what do you have for us? We need something. So the first book was really born out of that request, and that was middle school. Makeover that's a primer for parents, just sort of how to get through middle school easier. And from there, things kind of started to snowball. Talk to me about middle school because I've talked to teachers before about being a middle school teacher. Middle school age is an interesting age. It's definitely a can be a challenging age for parents. It can be challenging age for teachers as well as kids.

Christopher Lewis [00:06:18]:

And as you said, you started to do your curriculum and your writing when your kids were very young, but you were focusing on the middle school age. What was it about the middle school age that really drew you in and kept you in that space as you wanted to not only help the kids, but help then parents of that age of child?

Michelle Icard

I have always loved coming of age as a concept. I love it in pop culture, I love it in movies, I love Ya books. I've always been fascinated by that. What happened that sort of spawned this curriculum. As I was out to lunch with some girlfriends and we were all talking about how hard middle school was for us, and each of us had a successful private business that we were running, and we were happy and we were in great relationships, but we said you couldn't pay us to go back to middle school. It was so hard. And I thought, that's unfortunate, and I want to learn more about why that is.

Michelle Icard [00:07:17]:

So I'm very curious, and I just did a deep dive into what makes coming of age and early adolescence so hard when it looks so fun on TV and in books, such a pleasure to consume at this age, but was so miserable to go through at that age. So I just am fascinated by what I call the middle school construction project. So it's a time when a kid is building the three things they need to become an adult an adult brain, an adult body, and an adult identity. And that is what drives most of my work. That's really interesting. I've had middle schoolers. Mine are now either in high school or college. Yours are past this age, too, but parents aren't always told that.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:06]:

And that is something that once you say it, I can't unhear it. But it is definitely something that I think that parents do need to hear. And I'm sure that in that first book that you wrote, you delved deeper into that to be able to help parents to kind of flip that switch for themselves, to reconceptualize those middle school years.

Michelle Icard

Yeah, there's something beautiful about the chaos, I think. So you have these early years of adolescence where your body is going through tremendous change, where your brain is restructuring and rewiring in preparation to become an adult brain, and where you are trying to figure out your own sense of self and your own sense of identity. And what that means is really figuring out who you are apart from your parents. So to a parent, that can look contrarian or rebellious or rude or disrespectful, but to a kid it's a really important and clunky clumsy practice of trying to say who am I by myself. Because really what kids need to do is become independent.

Michelle Icard [00:09:15]:

That's our hope for them. And yet we're also incredibly uncomfortable with the how of that process because it just doesn't feel good when a kid doesn't do it gracefully. And they mostly don't do it gracefully because they're very new to it. How could they do it gracefully for the first time? So they're going to be rude and they're going to be forgetful and they're going to be self centered. And that's all just critical to figuring out who they are separate from the people who raised them. They come back around, though. That's the nice part. They do come back around.

Christopher Lewis [00:09:48]:

Now, you started with that first book. You moved into the 14 Talks by age 14. And I guess let's talk a little bit about that book because you moved from helping parents to better understand those years to then something a bit, I'm going to say, very tangible in regard to specific things that you should be talking to your kids about. And I know that not everyone has read this book. Can you talk to me about what led you to this and how you identified those 14 Talks? Was it because of the conversations you had with your own kids or was it something different?

Michelle Icard

The 14 Talks came out of a desire to help parents with what I think is one of the hardest parts of parenting. They were saying to me over and over again, yeah, I get it. I get that I'm supposed to talk to my kid about X, Y or Z, but tell me the words. I don't know what to say.

Michelle Icard [00:10:42]:

And also my kid won't listen. So I don't know how to get my kid to pause and listen to what I'm saying about sex and sexuality or friends and when friendships don't go the way they're planned or risk taking or any of that stuff. So I wanted it to be super practical in the sense that there are scripts in the book and you can read them and at least be inspired by them and then make them your own. But it gets you over that sort of stage fright of how do I begin? It also contains things I call conversation Crashers and Conversation starters. So things that if you take this approach, your kid's going to roll their eyes and walk out of the room. So don't. And other ways that you can successfully begin a conversation with a kid when they're at an age when they're pulling apart and they don't really want to listen. So that's sort of the crux of the book.

Michelle Icard [00:11:31]:

And the way I came up with the 14 is I have a parenting group on Facebook and there are 12,000 members. They're from all over the country. It's a private group, but anyone can join. It's called less stressed middle school parents. If anyone listening, wants to pop over there, come hang out with us. I'm working really hard to make it a very supportive corner of Facebook. I asked them, what are the things that, you know, you need to talk about but are struggling with with your child? Created a massive list, rented an airbnb, put each thing on an index card, and covered the floor of the airbnb and walked around like I was solving a crime, actually, until I saw trends where things should be clunked together. And that's how I did it.

Christopher Lewis [00:12:12]:

So very practical. I love the fact that you used your group as your sounding board, and I can just see you in my mind's eye walking around that airbnb trying to find and being like, AHA, I found it. Exactly. I can link Deodorant with whatever over here, and we can make it work. I know we can get that into one conversation. Yeah. So you left that book and you now have a brand new book called Aid Setbacks that can make a child a success. And I think one of the things that I think is challenging also in these years is the fact that, like you said, little things can become very big things very quickly, and something that for us would be like, not a big deal is a huge deal for kids during these years.

Christopher Lewis [00:13:10]:

Whether it's friendships, whether it's a grade, whether it's somebody just says something the wrong way and it's internalized. They can really derail not only a day, but a month, a year. It can really lead kids down that rabbit hole very quickly. And as parents, I know I've had those situations where you're trying to reel them back out and when they've hunkered down and shut that door, sometimes it's very difficult. However, you do need to still be able to provide them with the skills to build that armor for themselves in many ways to help them to be resilient for the future. So talk to me about what led you into this now next book that has built on the work that you've done previously and how it's different from the first two books.

Michelle Icard

So this has really been an evolution with these three books, from very foundational, practical information you need to understand what your kid is going through to very practical, communication based writing on how to talk to your kid about these very tricky topics that they will encounter to a broader, almost more academic look. At? What does it mean to come of age back to that concept that I love so much? And how do you usher your child across the threshold from being a kid to becoming a responsible, happy, young adult? And I think many of us culturally, societally, are just getting it wrong.

Michelle Icard [00:14:53]:

And it's because we don't have a manual or directions that say, this is the way kids become adults. And we so often just think, I guess they pass their classes or they get a driver's license or a job, and that makes them an adult. And those are all good things that we want for our kids, but they are not the recipe. And so this book is really introducing what I believe to be based on a ton of research that other people have done and that I've sort of aggregated what I believe to be the recipe for how kids become. Successful, happy, competent, confident adults and what we need to do to make that possible for them and not to stymie them in their challenges.

Christopher Lewis

I know that one of the things that you introduce in the book is your three step approach for any kind of failure. Can you talk to me about that and how you came up with that, but also maybe how you use that with your own kids and how you've seen it kind of play out in real life. 

Michelle Icard [00:15:59]:

So, yeah, I'd love to talk about that. The three steps are contain, resolve, and evolve. And I came to this process after interviewing families all across the country about experiences of failure that their kids had gone through. So they ranged from sort of subtle, like my kid had a loss of confidence and that was scary to watch for a while to dramatic or shocking or dangerous. My kid ended up in the hospital because they drank too much alcohol, or my kid got suspended from school because they broke rules or these kinds of things. So a wide variety. I looked at all of those and then I thought about, well, how do each of these families get through it? I asked them things that worked for me, for people I know, and did more research, which I love to do. So I came up with this process that I think fits all of them. And the first step is contain.

Michelle Icard [00:16:50]:

And that means you've got to just sort of put a tourniquet on the problem. You've got to stop the bleeding. So if something is coming at your child that's problematic, maybe there's a bully in the school. Maybe your child is using technology in a way that's not appropriate. Then you may have to contain what's coming at them. Or if your child is making decisions that are dangerous for them, you may have to contain the child. And that means, look, you're going to stay home this weekend. We got to figure some things out because it feels like the world's getting a little too big and dangerous right now.

Michelle Icard [00:17:21]:

So that's the first step. A lot of times parents will go, good, I'm done, I've contained the problem. That's probably all I need to do. That's putting a band Aid on. But you really need to fix the wound underneath there. So that's the next step. And that's resolve. And in the book there's a big menu of items that parents can look at and talk with their kids about and then based on whatever challenge they're facing, they can pick one or two and that's taking action to fix the problem.

Michelle Icard [00:17:49]:

So that might mean that an apology is necessary. It might mean that the kid has a misunderstanding about how something works in the world and they need more education or they might need professional consult or they might need an opportunity to negotiate for something that they want. So there's a big list that they can choose from. This is important because taking action is what keeps kids from feeling helpless when they're experiencing a challenge. We don't want that. And the third step is evolve. And I think it's the most important. And that's where we put this in the rear view mirror and don't keep revisiting it so that this doesn't become the headline of a kid's childhood.

Michelle Icard [00:18:26]:

It just becomes something they experienced and learned from and then they can move on. So important because as I said earlier, I mean the fact that some of these things can become that headline and kids at this age, at least in my experience, will hyper focus. And like I said, sometimes the small things become so big that they don't know how to make them small again. And as parents, I know there's been many times where I've had to reframe and I've had to work with my own kids to be able to help them to, as you said, contain and then resolve and to evolve. I didn't have those words, but I was doing that in my own way. 

Christopher Lewis [00:19:25]:

So it's interesting that you frame it in that way. Now, you can tell you've done a lot of research, you've talked to a lot of people that have led you to putting this together. And you talk about eight setbacks. Define a setback and what does that mean for the child and what does that mean for the parent?

Michelle Icard

So whatever you call these setbacks or failures or challenges, I tend to think of them as experiences with failure. So that word failure makes some people really uncomfortable, therefore didn't make it on the title because I didn't. And also I didn't want a kid to see the book in their parents possession and think, oh, you think I'm a failure? So I was cautious about leading with that. But throughout the book, I describe ways in which kids fail. And there are these eight archetypes that I came up with after interviewing all of these families and they are the rebel. So that's failure to follow the rules. The daredevil that's failure to take care of your body. The misfit is really the academic misfit.

Michelle Icard [00:20:18]:

So that's failure to perform in school the way that people expect you to. The ego is failure to show concern for others. The loner is failure to connect with your peers. The sensitive one is failure to handle your feelings. You're easily overwhelmed, maybe anxious. The black sheep is similar to the loner, but the black sheep fails to connect with their family so oftentimes the black sheep will have a robust peer group socially who they like and hang out with. But they feel like the odd person out among their family members and the loner feels like the odd one out among their peers. And often their parents will substitute in as their friends.

Michelle Icard [00:20:56]:

And then the final one is the benchwarmer. And they have a failure to believe in themselves. So they are like you guys play, I'll sit here and watch. I'm not really good at that. You guys are better at it than I am. So from all of those, you may recognize your kid as one of these sometimes and then they become another one a little bit later. I can tell you from my own youth, I was sometimes the bench warmer, I was sometimes the rebel and I was always the sensitive one. Really anxious little kid.

Michelle Icard [00:21:27]:

So kids will pass through these at different times. There'll be one and then there'll be another. They may be a couple at the same time, but this contain, evolve or resolve. Evolve is a way of keeping them from identifying as that forever and learning that they can be more than that and that you see them as more than that. It's interesting is that while this has been written for a middle school age child, the way that you define and that you're talking about these phases or these archetypes, I could say that I see it in high schoolers too. And I think that it seems like that even if your child is not in middle school, that the things that you're teaching here are things that will only continue as they continue through high school, maybe even into some years of college as they get older. Absolutely. And I'll tell you, I've done this work for 20 years and I've been in the middle school realm very squarely for almost all of it.

Michelle Icard [00:22:33]:

But this book is actually for parents of kids through high school. So your instincts are right and it is for parents, really of kids ages eight to 18. So that's my setback to overcome, I guess. People see me squarely as middle school because I've been doing it for so long, but now I'm really bringing in some high school topics. So you'll find some topics that are elementary age appropriate and some that are very high school and beyond, as you say. So you have built building blocks in regards to the books that you've been writing, you've been researching this for many years and working with parents for many years on all of these different topics. As you have been looking at all of these different aspects, you're at this point in your life with your own kids and in the research that you've done, what gaps still exist for you and what do you want to look at next? Well, this is real fantasy world stuff, but I am really interested in kind of a memoir. I know that that's a departure from everything I've done so far, but that 9th grade writer who had to write that family story, I think about that a lot.

Michelle Icard [00:23:46]:

And my mother passed away last year and my birth father passed away last year. I have a stepfather alive who I have considered my father for most of my life. And you go through these phases of parenting your younger kids and for a while then you're sort of parenting your parent, especially if there's an illness or they need more help from you. And all of that arc of parenting my own kids to parenting my parents, it's brought up a lot of stuff that I'm like, oh, this is kind of an interesting new way to explore concepts of parenting through personal stories and memoir. But that really is the stuff of fantasy at this point. That would be five or ten years off, I could imagine. But I do think it would be a really fun thing and creative thing to explore.

Christopher Lewis

So as people pick up this book in your mind, what is the one or two things that you're hoping that every person takes out of reading this?

Michelle Icard [00:24:56]:

I'm so happy you asked that because with all of my work and with this book especially, I want you to feel relief. I think you're going to feel relief. I think if you are worried because your child is one of those archetypes that I mentioned, and you're so scared that your kid is never going to have confidence and they're not going to make friends with people who treat them well. Or you're scared your kid's never going to care about somebody else. They're so selfish. Or they're never going to take care of themselves and they're going to get hurt. Whatever it may be, I want you. To pick up this book and start reading and take a deep breath and sigh a sigh of relief knowing that every single family is going through something similar to what you're going through. And we all have these same struggles and emotions, and if we can lift the veil on that sort of nervousness and embarrassment around the very normal, natural things that happen to kids when they're growing up, I think we will all be much happier and more comfortable and more satisfied as parents.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:48]:

I appreciate you saying that because I think that the word that you just used at the end, I think is important. Being satisfied as parents, because I think we walk through life as parents many times, and we do our best to raise good kids, kids that are making a difference in society, that are helping others. We try to give them the values that are important to our family and do all these other things. But then, I don't know that we always ask or think about are we satisfied with the work that we do and satisfied with how our kids are turning up? We definitely get worried about whether the kids are turning out the way that we hope that they are, but I don't know that we always think about that.

Michelle Icard

My plug is that if you're worried about raising good kids, I think good kids screw up a lot, and I think that makes them really great adults. I mean, I have an example in the book, and I'm not going to get into it right now, but a story about my coming of age and the decision I made that was disastrous, that taught me one of the biggest lessons of my life. That fills me still with regret and embarrassment. But I am so happy I screwed up in that way because I learned so much about myself.

Michelle Icard [00:27:16]:

If you are constantly living in the world of ease and perfection, you really don't grow and you don't learn about yourself. So unburden yourself of the worry that you're raising a good kid. If you see them screwing up, you're probably raising a great kid. They're probably learning a ton along the way. So I want to leave parents with that sense of and

Christopher Lewis

Michelle, if people want to find out more about you, about the book, about your community, where should they go? 

Michelle Icard [00:27:56]:

I'd love for people to find me on Instagram. If you're on Instagram, it's just my full name, michelleicard. It's two L's, and it's spelled like Icard I-C-A-R-D. So I'm on Instagram. My Facebook group is less stressed middle school parents, but we have tons of high school parents there now, too. So you can find me there and then connect on my website, which is just my name, Michelleikerd.com. I will put a link in the notes today for these different sites. But then also we'll make sure that we have a link to the books so that you can check them out for yourself and find them, because I know they're all out there. And these books will definitely help you whether you have middle schoolers or not. In this new one, like Michelle just said, even if you have up through age 18, it's definitely going to be a book that you're going to want to check out. And even if you have little kids, prepare now because there's going to be times when you're going to need some resources at your fingertips. 

Christopher Lewis [00:28:48]:

So, Michelle, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for your time today, for being here, for doing all of this. Work and making parenting easier because we all need it. And I truly appreciate that you have done it and I wish you all the best.

Michelle Icard

Thank you, Christopher, and thanks for this podcast.

Christopher Lewis

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out The Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And The Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on Fatherhood.

Christopher Lewis [00:29:28]:

Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step, roadmaps and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out@fatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes. Today Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them present. Bring your A game because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men get out and be the one to now be the best die you can be. You're the best dad you can be.

In this episode of "Dads with Daughters," host Christopher Lewis introduces the show's mission, which is to provide resources and support for fathers to become the best dads they can be, especially in raising strong, independent daughters. He emphasizes the importance of the journey fathers embark on in raising their daughters and acknowledges the ups and downs they may encounter. Christopher encourages fathers not to go through this journey alone and highlights the abundant resources and people available to help them improve their parenting skills.

Christopher then introduces the episode's guest, Elizabeth Usovicz, who is the past Rotary International director, the chair of the Girls Empowerment Global Task Force for Rotary, and a Rotary International Women of Action honoree. The main focus of this episode is Rotary International's Girls Empowerment Initiative, which has been ongoing for three years. Christopher explains his involvement as a Rotarian and the reason for discussing Rotary's initiative in the context of empowering girls.

Elizabeth provides an overview of Rotary International, its history, and its mission, which centers on humanitarian service both locally and globally. She emphasizes Rotary's role in creating positive change in communities and mentions that Rotary has over 1.4 million members worldwide.

The discussion shifts to the Girls Empowerment Initiative. Elizabeth explains how Rotary's then-President, Sheikh Meta, initiated this focus three years ago. The goal was to enhance girls' well-being, education, safety, and economic opportunities worldwide. The initiative's broad scope allows local Rotary clubs to adapt projects to address specific challenges faced by girls in their communities.

Elizabeth shares examples of successful projects, such as providing gender-specific latrines in schools to improve girls' access to education. Another project involves donating feminine hygiene products to local food banks to ensure girls have the necessary resources for their menstrual hygiene. These projects highlight how even small-scale efforts can have a significant impact.

Christopher and Elizabeth discuss the initiative's goals for the current year and its vision for the next five years. They emphasize the importance of expanding partnerships, fostering collaboration, and integrating girls' empowerment into Rotary's core activities.

Towards the end of the episode, Elizabeth provides recommendations for individuals who want to support girls' empowerment. She encourages people to connect with their local Rotary clubs, collaborate with schools, and become mentors or role models for girls. Elizabeth emphasizes the crucial role fathers play in shaping girls' perceptions of relationships and encourages them to be positive role models.

Christopher expresses his gratitude to Elizabeth for her dedication to empowering girls worldwide and highlights the impact of her work.

The episode concludes with Christopher reminding listeners to check out the Fatherhood Insider, an essential resource for dads seeking guidance on their parenting journey. He encourages fathers of daughters to join the Dads With Daughters Facebook community and looks forward to having more inspiring guests in the future. The episode ends with a call to action for fathers to be the best dads they can be.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight Dads resources and more to help you be the best dad you can be. Hey, everyone. This is Chris, and welcome to Dads with Daughters, where we bring you guests to help you be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, you and I are on a journey together. We're on a journey to raise our daughters and be able to raise them into the strong, independent women that we want them to be. I love being on this journey with you because for you and I, it is a journey.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:45]:

There's going to be ups. There's going to be downs. There's going to be things that happen that we're like, what the heck? And then there's going to be times where things are going really smooth, and this is a big but you don't have to do this alone. And that's the thing that I keep telling you every week, is that you don't have to father alone. And that's important because there are so many resources, but there's so many people around you that can help you to be a better father. And that's why every week, I love being able to have you listen in. And I bring you different guests that have different perspectives, different things that they offer to be able to help you be the best dad that you can be. Sometimes it's other fathers that are fathering in different ways.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:31]:

Sometimes it's other resources that are out there that are there for you to tap into to help you this week. We got another great guest with us this week. Elizabeth Yusuf is with us. And Elizabeth is the past Rotary International director, as well as the chair of the Girls empowerment global task force for Rotary and a Rotary International women of action honoree. Today we're going to be talking about Rotary International. If those of you don't know what Rotary is, we're going to talk about that, too. I will be very upfront and say I am a Rotarian, proud to be a Rotarian. Been a Rotarian for quite a few years, and I am currently the president of our local Rotary Club.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:16]:

And I love talking about Rotary. Haven't really talked to you about Rotary before, but the reason that we're talking about this and that we've got Elizabeth Usovicz on today is for the past three years, there has been an initiative within rotary to focus on girls. Empowerment. And that ties in very well to the work that you and I are doing every day. To be able to empower our own daughters and the girls around our daughters, and beyond that, to help them to be successful in life. I'm really excited to have Elizabeth here and to talk about this great initiative. Elizabeth, thanks so much for being here.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:02:57]:

Oh, it is my pleasure, Christopher, to be with you. Thank you for inviting me.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:01]:

It is my pleasure having you here. I guess, first and foremost, I said that I'm a Rotarian and I could talk about it, but I'm going to let you talk. Why don't we step back before we talk about this initiative? Talk to me about Rotary. What is Rotary? And then let's talk about why did Rotary start this initiative, this girls empowerment initiative, three years ago?

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:03:23]:

Well, I should start by thanking you for being president of your Rotary Club. That's a huge honor. And presidents are really the lifeblood of Rotary and Rotary clubs. But many people know about Rotary, perhaps from grandfathers or fathers who might have been members. And we've come a long way since that time. Rotary was founded in the early 20th century, and so we're over 100 years old, and Rotary is a member organization that is organized by clubs. And our primary mission is humanitarian service to other people in our communities and around the world. We are proactive people of action who create positive change in our communities and in the world.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:04:13]:

And in the process of doing that, we are also creating positive change in ourselves. We're over 1.4 million people around the world who are proudly members of Rotary, and we welcome everyone to join us. So if you don't know about Rotary, you can go to the Rotary website, you can locate a club in your community, and they will welcome you to attend a meeting to get to know them and maybe become a member if it lines up with what's important to you. We'd love to have you.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:48]:

So, three years ago, the then Rotary International President and I should step back and say that every year there is a Rotary International President, that Rotary International President sets goals for themselves. And three years ago, one of the Rotary International President's goals was to focus on girls empowerment. Now, that's a broad topic. Can you talk to me about why that was an important topic for that International President and what girls empowerment truly means in the global context of Rotary?

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:05:26]:

Well, it's a big topic. It's a broad topic. And, yes, I'll start by saying that the President of Rotary is a member, a volunteer, an unpaid member of Rotary who is nominated to serve in that one year term. And it's very typical for a President to have specific initiatives for one year that are close to their hearts. Three years ago, actually, now almost well, it was in 2020 when we started. He was president elect. Sheikh Meta from India, met with some of his incoming board members and said, I really want to focus on girls empowerment in the coming year, and I'd like to put together a task force, and I'd like you to serve on it. And he did appoint me chair.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:06:22]:

And at that time, Rotary had done any number of projects around the world. We do literally in the Tens of thousands of projects globally every year. And many of those projects had a component that served to provide resources to girls. But we didn't really focus on it. And he felt very strongly that focusing on girls'empowerment, particularly in terms of education, in terms of health, was a very important priority for him. And it did start, as you've mentioned Christopher, as a very broad agenda. His objective was simply to have Rotary clubs and Rotary members around the world to engage in projects that enhanced the health, education, safety, well being and economic opportunities for girls. So it was wide open.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:07:14]:

And because Rotary operates differently in different parts of the world, some of the issues that girls face, let's say in India or in parts of Africa, are very different from what they experience in Australia or in northern Canada, or in the United States. And so it was very broad so that it could be adapted locally. It was very popular, extremely popular. Rotary members around the world embraced this initiative like nothing I have ever seen before, to the point where it was so popular that last year's president, our first woman president, Jennifer Jones, decided to continue it. I'm not 100% sure of this, but based on the research I've done, this has never happened before in Rotary history. That a presidential initiative from one year carried over into another. And now we are in an unprecedented third year of carryover because the engagement has been so high, it has been so rewarding for Rotary members and their partners, non Rotarians and other not for profit organizations, that it will continue into a fourth year next year. So this has grown in a way very organically because people have seen a need, they have met a need.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:08:40]:

The need has been appreciated in those local communities. It has continued and will continue into a fourth year and beyond as it becomes part of the fabric of what Rotary does around the world.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:53]:

So you mentioned that many Rotary clubs have taken up the mantle of this goal and have implemented programs, implemented initiatives. Can you give me some examples of some successful initiatives that have been implemented by Rotary clubs that truly hit this initiative at the heart of the goal itself?

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:09:20]:

Yes, absolutely. And as I mentioned, the initiative and the projects that clubs choose to take on vary depending on the part of the world. But I'll give you a great example from India. It's also a type of project that 20 years ago I was part of initiating in Malawi, Africa. So the need is continuing. One of those is that in many parts of the world, simple things like sanitation, segregated bathrooms in schools for children are simply not available. And simply on the basis of not being able to have a safe and sanitary place as a restroom for girls can prevent many of them from going to school. And so many of the projects that we have seen over the past three years have been focused on water and sanitation in schools and creating those gender specific latrines or bathroom spaces so that girls have the privacy that they need and can inspect spend a day in school.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:10:32]:

It's hard to believe that something as simple, a basic need, as simple as a bathroom can be pivotal to education. But in many parts of the world it is, and that has had a huge impact on keeping girls in school at a critical time. I'll give you another example of a very simple project, because sometimes what I have heard from clubs in North America sometimes is, well, we don't really have any issues that we can address in our communities. But if you drive by any high school in any community in the United States, about 25% of the girls in that school are missing two to three days of school every month because they do not have access to the products they need to manage their own feminine hygiene. And if you look at those communities, every one of those communities has a local food bank. And I've talked to many executive directors of food banks, community food banks, and the one thing that they have all told me is they never receive enough feminine hygiene products as part of the donations that Rotary clubs and other organizations may provide to them. And when they do get those products, they can't keep them on the shelves. There simply is not enough for demand.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:11:58]:

So what I have seen in many clubs is very simply adding those feminine hygiene products to the donations that they would make on a regular basis anyway to a local food bank. So a project doesn't have to be enormous to have an enormous impact. And there are just so many challenges that relate or keep girls out of school that addressing those issues can make a huge difference, because really, education is the key. Education and also aspiration in what to study, is also key for girls to become empowered women and to really be well represented across trades, skills, and professions.

Christopher Lewis [00:12:46]:

So being the chair of this global task force, you have people from around the world that are all coming together. You're talking about a vision for this group as a whole as you look to the future through this year with this international president and beyond. What are your main goals as a task force for this year and what are your goals as you look at the next, let's say five years?

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:13:15]:

Wow, that's an excellent question. And for something that has grown as spontaneously and organically as this initiative has grown, that is a challenging question to answer. In terms of the task force. First we looked at the data from rotary partner organizations like the World Bank, UNICEF and the Gates Foundation, among others, and so that we were really well informed on what the issues were and then ensured that that awareness of those issues was part of the resources that clubs were able to access as they decided which projects might be appropriate for their part of the world. But having said that, one of the things that the task force did is we created a network of people, Rotary volunteers that we call ambassadors. And I would estimate that there are over 200 ambassadors or assistant ambassadors in parts of the world who are there to create momentum, create that awareness, and build interest in doing projects that are focused on girls empowerment and also providing them with the resources that they need. And so that building that network and keeping that network expanding has been a primary goal of the task force in terms of where do we go from here? Partnerships are very definitely the place that we go from here. We've seen trending over the past year a number of clubs and other larger Rotary organizations called a district, a collection of clubs, a geographic collection of clubs who are partnering now both with each other, with other clubs.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:15:08]:

So multi club projects, we're also seeing those clubs partner with organizations that have specific expertise in dealing with those issues that girls face. Rotary has tremendous hands, hearts, and minds. We are the feet on the ground. And when we partner with those organizations with specific expertise, the impact is incredible. So we hope to continue that. As I said earlier, it's unprecedented to have what was structured as a one year presidential initiative now continue into a third year and into a fourth year. So the task force objective at this point is to examine and explore all the ways that we can integrate this girls empowerment beyond an initiative, but into the fabric of what Rotary does.

Christopher Lewis [00:16:04]:

We've been talking a lot about Rotary specifically, and not every listener is a rotarian. Are there things that people can do to support not only the initiative, but also to support girls empowerment in general that you would recommend?

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:16:25]:

Yes, there are. And certainly, as I had mentioned when we began our conversation, that looking up where local clubs meet in your geographic area and connecting with them, whether you join or not, is one way to connect with a club and to initiate a project or join a project in your community that is focused on this important area. Other things that can be done are definitely connecting with the schools in your local communities. The guidance counselors, the principals, the headmasters, those are the people who can best inform on what the needs are within that education sphere. I think that also there's a great deal that we can do in terms of some of the issues that girls face by focusing on prevention as opposed to rehabilitation. And I'm thinking about human trafficking in particular, where there is a great deal that we can do within our own communities to make citizens aware of what some of those signs are that a girl might be at risk of trafficking and also educating girls on what those signs might be. Because if we can prevent, then obviously then we don't have to do as much in terms of rehabilitation. And so I think those are very important ways.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:18:03]:

I think it's also given your organization and given the audience for this podcast, that obviously being a great role model for girls and really being an ally to girls, whether they are girls within your own family, within your own neighborhood, elsewhere in your community, often that micro mentorship, that micro role model. Just that one phrase you might say to a girl who maybe has not had that kind of encouragement in their lives before can make a difference. And I know in Rotary we all have stories about how that has happened. I have numerous times over the course of my career and my service in Rotary heard later from a girl that just that one thing you said to me ten years ago that resonated with me and it gave me hope and it gave me a focus. And I think also anytime that we can introduce a girl to someone who could be a mentor, a role model, that kind of exposure that a girl may not get at home or may get at home, but could be supplemented, having as many good role models as possible is really important. And that's something that we can all do as individuals, is to just be on the lookout for that and to encourage and support girls in that way.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:38]:

Definitely agree with you. I think that there is so much that we can do in regards to providing mentorship, providing someone for girls to look up to, whether it's yourself, whether it's connecting girls in your community with others that can help them to get to where they want to be and let them see a path to the future. That's so important and definitely something I know that I've done with my own daughters, to try and help them and see opportunities that may exist, not to push them, but to guide them, to help them and to let them still make decisions that are right for them. And that's important. And I think it's a role of any father to be able to be that guide and to help their child and the children around them, to be able to find that path for themselves in that regard.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:20:39]:

And you know this much better than I as a father. But that role of being a father is so pivotal and so important to children just in general, but for girls as well, so much of their impressions and their perspectives on what to expect from men and in their relationships with men are largely founded on the example that their fathers provide. So it's incredibly important, what you have just said really resonates.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:11]:

Elizabeth, people want to find out more about this initiative. Where should they go?

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:21:16]:

That is a very good question. And right now, the location of this information on the Rotary website can be found most easily by Googling Rotary presidential initiatives. And on that page for this year, for example, our President Gordon Mcinelli, who is incredibly supportive of this initiative, lists all of his initiatives, including Girls Empowerment, and there are resources that are listed as well on that page. That is one of the places to go. In addition, on the Rotary International Facebook page, which includes a number of the important work and the service opportunities that Rotary offers, there is also information there about the Girls Empowerment initiative. But really, because this is such a localized implementation of this initiative, really the best place is to go to a local Rotary club in your community and to connect with the members who are working on this project in ways that are meaningful in your community.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:30]:

Elizabeth, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for all the work that you're doing to empower people in the world, not just girls, but empowering people in the world to empower the girls in their communities to be able to find success in all aspects of their life. It is such an important initiative and such an important thing. I say that as a father of two daughters, but I know that there are so many fathers out there that once they know about this, I think they'll be very happy to hear that there is this work that's happening. So thank you. Thank you for doing this, and I'll put some links in the Notes today for where people can find those initiatives, and I wish you all the best.

Elizabeth Usovicz [00:23:14]:

Thank you so much. Christopher it's really been an honor to be able to talk about this, and I would just say that the work that we do, we all do it together, so it's always a we proposition. And as you said at the beginning of this conversation, you don't do parenting alone. You don't do fathering alone. None of this work is done alone, and I just feel so honored to be a part of it.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:38]:

The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step, roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out@fatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the Notes today. Dads With Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week.

All geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be. We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny, screaming passengers. We spend the time we give, the lessons, we make the meals we buy them present and bring your A game because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite glass calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the one to now be the best dad you can be be the best dad you can be.

In this episode of the "Dads with Daughters" podcast, host Christopher Lewis emphasizes the importance of fathers supporting and guiding their daughters to become strong, independent women. He shares his own journey as a father of two daughters and his motivation behind creating this podcast - to learn from others and help dads navigate the challenges of fatherhood together.

Christopher introduces his guest, Rodney White, a father of three from Kansas, including two daughters. Rodney discusses his initial apprehension when he found out he was going to be a father to a daughter, particularly due to his lack of experience raising girls. However, he highlights the value of adapting and learning from the journey.

One of Rodney's biggest fears in raising a daughter is helping her navigate the challenges of the middle school years, where girls often face insecurity and peer pressure. He emphasizes the importance of building his daughter's self-confidence and self-worth through individual activities that challenge her and allow her to develop resilience.

Christopher and Rodney discuss the balance between work and family life, with Rodney expressing his commitment to making time for his kids despite potential career sacrifices. He shares how he prioritizes spending quality time with his daughters, supporting their interests, and being present in their lives.

They delve into the challenges of letting children fail and learn from their mistakes, which can be difficult for parents who want to protect them. Rodney acknowledges that allowing his daughter to experience consequences is essential for her growth and development.

The conversation also explores what it means to be a "girl dad." Rodney reflects on how being a father to a daughter involves setting an example, providing support, and helping her navigate a world that can sometimes be challenging for girls.

Rodney emphasizes the parallels between parenting and sports, particularly the importance of instilling a strong work ethic and teaching children to handle success and failure gracefully. He believes that these lessons from sports can translate into valuable life skills.

The episode concludes with a discussion of the joy that comes from hearing positive feedback about your children's behavior and character from others, reinforcing the importance of raising good people in a sometimes challenging world.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads resources and more to help you be the best dad you can be. Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week, and as always, I love being on this journey with you. You know, I'm a father of two daughters and this podcast was created somewhat cathartically to be able to learn from all of you, but also to help you in this journey that you're on, because all of us are on an individual journey, but we don't have to be on this journey alone. We have so many other dads around us that have gone through this, that are going through this, and we can support each other and learn from each other. And that's what this podcast is all about. It's all about the fact that you don't have to do it alone.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:03]:

You don't have to go it alone. You can talk to people around you, but you can also listen to people and listen to their experiences, take things that work and incorporate them into your own lives. Every week I have a great opportunity to be able to sit down and talk to different guests, different dads that come from many different walks of life but are doing fatherhood in a little bit different way. And they are able to share with all of us the journey that they've been on, the things that have worked, maybe things that haven't worked, and help all of us to be able to do what we can do, to be able to be the best dads that we want to be and that we can be. This week, we've got another great guest with us. Rodney White is with us today and Rodney is from Kansas. He has three kids. He has two daughters and a son. And I'm really excited to be able to talk with him today, to have him here and to learn from his experiences. Rodney, thanks so much for being here today. 

Rodney White

Yeah, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. It's my pleasure having you here today.

Christopher Lewis

I love being able to talk to different dads, and one of the first things I love doing when I have these conversations is to turn the clock back in time. And I'm going to turn it back a few years back to that first moment, that first moment when you found out that you were going to be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Rodney White [00:02:29]:

Well, to be quite honest with you, I'll never forget the day. And the reason why is because I was a father of a son first. And I say that because my son, which I love him to death, 15 years old at the time, was, I believe, three, maybe four at the time, and was a lot. Let's just say when my youngest daughter was born, she wasn't something that we had planned and so we were a little freaked out. The reason I say that is because my oldest daughter so I have three kids. My oldest daughter's 22. I adopted her when she was at the age of seven. So I never really had that first through seven years. And my son was a lot like I said, and he was a boy and he is a boy and he's just 100% boy and go, go.

Rodney White [00:03:03]:

And be honest with you, my wife and I were like, I don't know if we can do this. I don't know if we can survive a second one. Obviously being as young as we were and knowing what I know now, we were going to be okay. And we figured out but knowing that we were having a daughter, I didn't know what to think. And the reason I didn't know what to think is because the youngest of four boys, so I grew up with no sisters a mother, but my mother was more the father figure. She was the disciplinarian and all of that. So I was honestly I was freaked out because I didn't know what to do. And what I mean by that is hair right now she's twelve years old.

Rodney White [00:03:35]:

So I'm going through some changes there. All of those things were running through my head like I have no idea how to raise girl. And so yeah, freaked me out for a little bit and quickly just settled in and realized that it's a new opportunity and we were going to learn. So yeah, I mean, obviously excited but scared to death because I was the youngest of four boys and I had no idea what I was doing.

Christopher Lewis

Really understand that. I have heard that so many times from so many dads that you walk in and there's definitely some fear there. And I hear it a lot with the dads that I talk to that have daughters that there is some fear. What would you say has been your biggest fear in raising a daughter?

Rodney White

My biggest fear, to be quite honest with you, is now I really didn't have any fear with my youngest because it was so easy to be honest with you. And I say that not the girls are easy to raise, but I always say if we would have had her first, would have had 15 more. My biggest fear is probably right now she's going into the middle school world. And I have one that went to the high school world that didn't have the greatest experience in the world. And to be honest with you, just that world of insecurity that girls come into, not that guys don't and boys don't have it. That middle school world is just so brutal and I think it's so life changing. My biggest fear is navigating her through that to make sure she comes out with self confidence and makes the right decisions and all of those, but from zero to twelve, there was no fear. I mean, she's been awesome, but this has always been my fears getting to this age. And we're here right now.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:01]:

Talk to me about that, because like you said, you want to build her self confidence, you want to safeguard her as she's going through that middle school process. What have you or are you doing to be able to not only prepare yourself, but helping your daughter to prepare for the reality that is middle school?

Rodney White

Yeah, so really the only thing that I can say, I mean, I had a really good friend of mine that was an MMA and boxing coach, and sports has always been a passion of mine. That's where my foundation raises. And I had my son in boxing and just training, nothing crazy, wasn't actually participating in fights, but what I noticed and what my friend told me was individual sports. And I say sports because that's where the world I live into. It could be anything individual. If it's learning an instrument, if it's doing something that's really hard by yourself that you have to get better at by doing it consistently raises self confidence. So I think that's what I've done is try from five years old on up, is try to build her self confidence, self worth, in something that going through hard things. We talk about that all the time. We can do hard things. And understanding that she is much more than what the world's getting ready to tell her that she is. So we just try to do single activities. If it was gymnastics, if it's singing, she's done musical things like that. Just try to do things to really build her up and let her know that she can do anything. And that sounds so cliche. You can do anything you want.

Rodney White [00:06:21]:

You really can. But I wanted her to be able to do that outside of a screen, outside of a phone, outside of an iPad, and something that she had to fail at. Because I don't think as parents, we let our kids fail enough and then let her build her up and give her support and let her see that, man, that was hard. But look how much better I am now, because I think that's the confidence builder. Going into middle school, when you feel like you know yourself and you know that you're struggling in math and somebody says something or whatever the case may be, you already know that work side. So we just try to create work ethic, I think, and just some of that inner strength, it definitely does. And I think that you definitely have to do that and you have to adjust along the way as you see how your child is thriving or is struggling, and you adjust as they go through the experience. And you have to just have open dialogues about what's going on.

Rodney White [00:07:13]:

Sometimes that's easier said than done, especially as they get into those teenage years and would rather be in their rooms than sometimes talking to mom and dad. But that being said, if you have created the environment for a child to know that you're there, to know that you're willing to help and be there, you know that they're going to come to you if and when they need that as well. And that's one of the cool things I like. Again, I'll go to the sports side because that's the world we live in. But we did it last night. We went to pitching lessons and it wasn't about the pitching lesson. I actually told this to my wife. It's not about the pitching lesson. It's not about going and getting better at the sport, which we tried to do, and we put it with the right people. But I had a 35 minutes car ride with my twelve year old on the way there and I had a 35 minutes car ride after endorphins were already flowing, so she was more talkative on the way home. We got an hour and ten minutes to sing Taylor Swift or Me Poke fun at Taylor Swift or have fun or hear about her school day and all of those things. And she couldn't open up a package of fruit snacks at lunch and she told me all about that. So that to mean that was worth every bit of it. So just trying to do that, I get that time, and I think that's so important. I know that you are a busy guy. You work full time and you're raising two kids still in the house.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:31]:

Talk to me about balance and how you balance what you're doing on a daily basis and how you're balancing that with being engaged with your kids.

Rodney White

Yeah, it's really hard. I don't know that I do a really good job at it, to be honest with you. One of the struggles that I have is not going all in. And I say that because when we go, I always tell them, I don't care what you do, we're going to go do it. Well, I told you my son Box, my oldest daughter, she played basketball for a little bit and then my youngest daughter played softball and then she did musicals. So whatever we're going to do, we're going to do it at 100%. I'm going to go find you the best people and we're going to put you around it. We're going to go try to be really good at it. The hardest part for me is making sure that I've still got time at home. For my wife, I struggle really bad with that because she doesn't have the same mindset as me. She is at home, and when I say same mindset, she's not as obsessed with the sports world as I am and that's okay. And she does a good job of supporting me. But I say that because being able to manage it, I have taken less jobs or less money to make sure that I'm around my kids that I can get off at 430. I could probably double my salary right now tomorrow if I wanted to go and work all the time. And I refuse to do it.

Rodney White [00:09:41]:

So I just make it a priority. I think that's probably the biggest thing I can tell you is I make sure that they get my full attention. If it's something at 06:00, I'm going to make sure that I'm done at 05:00 so I can get home and get them taken care of and things like that. So I guess the answer to the question is I make it a priority to make sure that they're getting the time that I think that they should get. But it's hard, man. Sometimes I go into work early, not often, but to be able to get out of work early. Or it's one of those deals that you just have to let you use the word adjust. You have to be able to adjust and sacrifice.

Rodney White [00:10:15]:

And one of the things I've never allowed myself to do was sacrifice my kids time. I only get it one time. So I'm going to make their games, I'm going to make their practices. I'm going to make whatever it is and whatever it takes. And that's important because putting yourself out there, being present, being willing to be interested not only in the things that you are interested in, but the things that they are interested in, is so critical because you're going to be able to create even stronger bonds with your children when you do that. The other part of that is making I try to really make sure that while we do all of that stuff, that I want them to be a kid too, right? So we make sure that they go to birthday parties. We make sure that they are outside and they're spending time with their friends and things like that. Because I think some people can get caught up and I do too sometimes. And you get caught up in just trying to do all the right things. But sometimes they got to be a kid too, so they got to be able to do a little bit of both.

Christopher Lewis

So important as well. And I was just going to say, let's be honest, not everything that our kids love doing are things that we're going to like doing. But that doesn't mean that you don't still take the time to learn more about it and to understand why they like it. Because that's going to show them that you're invested, you're interested, and that you're willing to do it. They'll know if you like it or not. They're going to know whether or not you are passionate about playing Barbies or not, but just being there and knowing that Dad's willing to do that is just part of the things that are going to make or break that relationship.

Rodney White [00:11:59]:

I said it earlier and she's actually going tonight for a tryout for the musical at our local high. And she's been in three. It is not my world, it's mom's world. I don't mind it though. I actually learned to enjoy it and I think that's really what it is and I believe this with my whole heart. While sports is something that I love, and I'm super glad that my daughter got into softball and I can teach it. It's a world that I played baseball growing up and yeah, it fits. My oldest daughter didn't, she played basketball, she didn't love it. I recognized it, gave her the opportunity and was like, hey, you don't have to do this her sophomore year in high school. But my daughter's going to the musical and we're going to make sure that same thing, right? Just because it's not softball, it doesn't change that, hey, I'm going to make sure that I'm off early. I'm going to make sure that she's got a presentation on Friday at 05:00. That's what we're going to be there and we're going to be there in the front row and all those things. So yeah, it's crucially important. We talk a lot about, especially with sports. And I tell all my girls I coach as well, so I help coach my daughter's team. So I'm around a lot of 1112 13 year old girls and we talk to them a ton about this is what you do, this is not who you are.

Rodney White [00:12:58]:

And we really make that because I think a lot of times they can forget that the success or the lack of success is where my love lies. And that's not it at all. And I try to focus on that. She's twelve, so she has a phone and you talk about again, we go back to the word adjust. We text a lot because that's her communication, right? That's the way she likes to communicate. And we talk, we have great conversations. But I really make sure that I text her probably once a week. Something in the realm of sports is not who you are, it's what you do. It's a thing that you do. I'm proud of you for X, I'm proud of you for whatever. So she can read that now. She may not respond because she's twelve years old or I may get a K or that was weird, dad or whatever, but making sure that they understand that just because of what we do, no matter what it is, that doesn't define who we are as a person. And I think that's important too. Very true and very important as well. 

Christopher Lewis

I think that one of the things that I would put out there is just the fact that there are going to be high times there's going to be low times in parenting, in parenting, any type of child, whether it's a daughter, a son, multiple kids, it's not going to be all roses. As you look at the time that you've had with your daughters, what would you say has been the hardest part of being a father to a daughter?

Rodney White [00:14:14]:

Patience. Letting them fail. I had this conversation, actually, today knowing, I think as us, as parents, at least, I feel like I can see the future. Right? And we all can see the future. We understand if you're walking down this road with the people that you're hanging out with or the certain things that you're doing, we know the consequences. They don't. Right? I have to remember that this is their first time being twelve, and it's not my first time being twelve. So I can see the future, and I'm an adult, so obviously, within reason, letting them fail. And sometimes my words don't mean anything until they actually see the consequence of whatever that consequence is.

Rodney White [00:14:47]:

And I think that's probably the hardest thing. And to be honest, I think that's one of the things that our world doesn't do a good job of is letting our children fail in a constructive way. My children, I say this, they have no adversity. They have no true adversity in life. So we try to create some artificial adversity. Right? That's what I do with sports. It gets hard, you're running or whatever, because I want them to fail. I want them to see that if I don't put the work in, then I'm not going to get X.

Rodney White [00:15:10]:

And actually, I want you to see that even if you do put the work in, sometimes you don't get X, because I think that's probably been the hardest part, is letting them fail and not jumping in and knowing the answers to the test and letting them put them on paper themselves. And sometimes you get a B, right? Sometimes you get a C. And I think it's so hard, and I see so many other people do the same thing, and I get it. I understand because we love them and we don't want to see know we know the answers to the test, but yeah, you gotta let them fail. And I'm not the greatest at it, but I work on it for sure.

Christopher Lewis

I know that you and I initially got connected through a tweet that you put out there that used the hashtag girl dad. And most of us all know that that goes back to Kobe Bryant and his daughter. And it's kind of kept going since then for you. What does being a girl dad mean to you?

Rodney White [00:15:53]:

So I'll start that off by today's Kobe Bryant's birthday. So being a girl dad means man, god. What does that mean? It's so much because I'll start off by again. I was the youngest of four boys, so I grew up never really understanding that girls had it different. Maybe I did understand it, but not truly. Not until I saw my daughters going through it when it comes from anything from sexuality and how men and boys think about females to the lack of support that their sports get or something of that nature. So being a girl dad, you go to Kobe, because Kobe is actually a pretty big influence on mine, like just supporting the hell out of my daughter. I think that's what it means, right? And understanding that the very first line of defense is me.

Rodney White  [00:16:42]:

And the very first person to love them, first male that's going to love them is me. So it's my job to show them what it's supposed to be like, what to expect, because the world doesn't do a really good job of that. It's my job to be respectful. It's my job to discipline. It's my job to raise them in a way that they feel adequate in this world. I guess it kind of sounds bad, but they get the short end of the stick and they really do. And I didn't know that until I had a daughter. And I feel like it's my job to build them from the ground up for a world that doesn't support them as much as they really should.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:17]:

It does. And I think that I asked this question because of the fact that I think that every dad sees that moniker as something different. And I think that it's important to understand that that the way that each of us internalizes what being a dad to a daughter means is going to be different. And that's okay. And that we do need to have a definition for ourselves. For some fathers, they may see being a father to a daughter as no different than being a father to a son. But then for others, there is a vast difference and that there is a different path that they walk. When it comes to raising a son or a daughter, I don't know the difference because for me, I've only had daughters. But for those that do have sons and daughters, this may feel a little different for them as well. So I put that out there just so that for anyone that is thinking about this, looking at this, that you have to define it yourself. You can learn from others and you can see how others define it for themselves, but that doesn't mean that that's the way that you're going to define it as well. Now, you have been talking about the fact that sports is a big part of your life. It's a big part of the life of your kids as well. The tweet that I mentioned was a tweet of you and your daughter practicing ball and she was pitching to you and throwing the ball around to you. I know that baseball and softball now is something that has been a big part of your life. And with your youngest daughter, that is a part of her life. What are some of the parallels that you see between parenting and sports that allow for you to be able to incorporate those into the work that you're doing to be a better father.

Rodney White

There's a song out there that says she thinks we're just fishing, right? And what that means is that dad and daughter are out fishing, and he's spending time with her. She thinks they're out trying to catch fish. He's understanding the time is so valuable. I think, number one, that's it. It's time, just spending time, no matter what, together. But one of the biggest parallels that I try to transfer is just work ethic. I mean, just we have to go do things that are hard sometimes, and we have to go to get a goal. Passion, I think it translates into life in general. I'm a big believer in passion. I don't care what it is. I mean, you can turn your passion into a lot of different things, but this world will beat you down if you don't have something that you're passionate about. So I think it translates into that. I think I have to do a good job of taking the coach hat off when I go home to be a dad, but also make sure that it's a responsibility. Right. So that parallels we talk a little bit about that at home, too, of making sure that I don't carry her softball bag.

Rodney White  [00:19:49]:

I don't make sure her well, sometimes this is a let them fail type deal. I try not to fill her water bottle up, but I'm not letting her walk out with that water. Right, but there's a lot of those things. But what I've seen, and I don't know if this is just the way that she was born, but she gets herself up for school. She makes her own lunch. She cares on what kind of grades that she gets. She cares. And I believe that those transition from us going to the ball field and doing the things that we did, it has nothing to do with wins and losses.

Rodney White  [00:20:17]:

It has nothing to do with what our team did as a team last year, because I couldn't even tell you what our record was. But does she pack her backpack? Does she treat others kindly when they fail? Does she learn how to pick them up? That's why I love sports, is because it translates to life so much that you have a teammate that struck out, and all of a sudden they're coming back in with tears in their eyes. And your job as a leader, as a teammate, is to pick them up and let them know they're going to be okay. Well, what about in school? What about when they're sitting there and there's somebody sitting by themselves and they're feeling bad? I would hope that she's going to go up and pick them up the same way so that's that transition that, to me, is vital for sports. I don't know. I'm sure there's other ways to be able to teach your kids that. But that's the avenue that I teach, and that's why I teach it, is because I want them to be able to take that and to be good humans. Because in the end of this whole deal, if I raise my kids and they're good people, then I win.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:04]:

It definitely makes a big difference when you get those people that come up to you and tell you things about your children that you didn't know that they have done or that they are doing that reinforce the values, reinforce the things that you have been trying to impress on them over the years. And I know in the past, for me, it just puts a smile on my face when someone comes up to me and says, your child did this. Did you know? And half the time I'm like, no, I didn't. But I'm glad. And I think that that reflects a lot in the work that you do day in and day out as a father.

Rodney White

There's not a better feeling in the world than that. I mean, there's absolutely in my house, we kind of joke around and say that you're guilty until proven innocent. And you get messages, you'll get a Facebook message or you'll get a message from a parent and you're like, your heart drops, right? Because you never know what's coming. And yeah, I mean, when you get those compliments, because I think you nailed it too. I don't know a lot of what my kid does outside of here. I don't know what she's doing at school all day. I don't know how she's treating people at the kitchen table. I can tell you all day long that she's the nicest kid in the world and that we've raised her to be this selfless servant of others and all of that stuff. I say that, but she very well could be a bully at school. I don't know. Until somebody tells me have no idea what's going on.

Rodney White [00:22:31]:

Again, I think there's a lot of parents out there that may be naive about their children and I might be naive about mine, but I think all we can do is the best that we can do and raise our kids the right way. To be kind to other people, to be nice to other people, to work super hard for a goal, whatever that goal might be, and have a goal and just hope for the best. Because the world sucks, man. I mean, the world out here is just social media. And every time we have a rule at home that nobody listens to, and myself included, is don't read the comments, right, because you're going to see negative stuff anywhere you go on social media. So if we just try to just want them to be good people and hope that those messages we get from parents are positive instead of negative ones, because to your point, there is. Not a better feeling in the world.

Christopher Lewis

We always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood five, where I ask you five more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? 

Rodney White

I think so.

Christopher Lewis

In one word, what is fatherhood

Rodney White

Love

Christopher Lewis

When was a time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Rodney White

I don't know that I have ever felt that way, to be honest with you. I'm always chasing it. I'm sure there's times, but it's really, really hard. So honestly, I feel like a failure of a dad and more times than I feel like I'm a good parent. But they always say that if you feel like a bad parent, that's because you're a good parent. And I believe that. And that's just because you're disciplined, you're doing the right thing. So I don't know. I don't know that I've ever truly felt that. It doesn't mean that it's not true. But I'm pretty hard on myself when it comes to something to think about is to go to your own children and ask them that question and see what they say, and they can be your biggest critic or biggest fan, so they might give you some good feedback. Depends on the day.

Christopher Lewis

Speaking of your kids, if I was to go to your daughters and ask them, how would they describe you as a dad?

Rodney White

Passionate and crazy. I think those are the two words they would describe me with, for sure.

Christopher Lewis 

Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Rodney White [00:24:17]:

That's a great question. I have a really good friend group, two guys that have children as well, a little younger than me, great people, some of the most amazing people I ever have. And I'd say maybe they do. That was always there for me, too. So I think trying to impress him right, trying to make sure that I'm doing right through his eyes, too, is always important. But I don't know, that's just tough question.

Christopher Lewis

You've shared some of your own experiences, different pieces of advice, things that people can take in and think about for themselves as we finish up today. What's one piece of advice you'd want to give to every dad?

Rodney White [00:24:55]:

Stay patient. And it's the advice that I have to give myself, not everything. Pick your battles there's. Absolutely pick your battles. You can't fix everything. You have to let them fail. And if it's not going to matter five years from now, don't spend more than five minutes on it.

Christopher Lewis

Great points and great thoughts. I really appreciate it. If people want to find out more about you or follow you, where's the best place for them to go? Yeah, they can go to Twitter is probably the best spot.

Rodney White [00:25:18]:

@Rodney1904 on Twitter. It's a lot of sports. A lot of my kids. It's a lot of other kids as well. So I try to do the same thing for other kids in our community, especially the high school kids. Really big passion of mine. So, yeah, I'll make you laugh over there, too, sometimes. 

Christopher Lewis [00:25:32]:

Rodney, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for everything that you're doing to raise your kids and to help other dads as well. Thanks for sharing your story and I wish you all the best.

Rodney White

No, I really appreciate the time and reaching out. Thank you.

Christopher Lewis

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out The Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And The Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on Fatherhood.

Christopher Lewis [00:26:07]:

Through our extensive course, library, interactive forum, step by step, roadmaps and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out@fatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes. Today Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them present. Bring your A game because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men get out and be the one to them. Be the best dad you can be. You're the best dad you can be.

In this episode of "Dads with Daughters," host Christopher Lewis welcomes Oggy Brewer, a biology teacher and father of four, to discuss the challenges and joys of being a father to daughters. Augie shares his personal journey and insights into building strong relationships with his daughters and fostering their self-esteem.

Oggy's initial surprise came when he thought he was having another son, only to discover he was going to be a father to a daughter. He reflects on the initial panic and uncertainty but emphasizes the importance of adapting and learning as a parent.

One of Oggy's biggest fears as a father of daughters is ensuring their self-esteem remains high. He discusses the delicate balance of being firm, supportive, and uplifting in their lives.

To build unique relationships with each daughter, Oggy emphasizes the significance of being present in their lives, connecting with their interests, and spending quality time with them. Whether it's playing basketball, taking drives, or simply being present, he believes that connecting with his daughters is an ongoing challenge but a crucial one.

Oggy shares memorable experiences with his daughters, including family trips to places like Glacier National Park and Dale Hollow Lake. These trips provide opportunities for bonding and creating lasting memories.

Balancing his role as a biology teacher and a father of four, Oggy discusses the importance of setting boundaries and making a commitment to be present with his family when he's home. He believes that being a positive example and showing hard work can also influence his children positively.

As daughters transition into their teenage years, Oggy acknowledges the changes and challenges in maintaining strong connections. He stresses the importance of continuous effort and being adaptable as a father.

Oggy delves into the concept of being a "girl dad" and highlights the significance of building positive relationships with daughters, fostering their self-esteem, and using powerful, uplifting words.

Augie introduces "MoPo for Life," a concept he developed during the COVID-19 pandemic. MoPo stands for "Max Out Payout," emphasizing the importance of identifying daily purposes and maximizing efforts to achieve them. Oggy has written a book titled "MoPo Max Out Payout: Living the MoPo Life, MoPo the Day," which encourages readers to reflect on their daily lives, set goals, and stay positive.

He also discusses how he challenges his own children to live the MoPo Life by helping them set goals and take actionable steps to achieve them, particularly in their academic pursuits.

Oggy extends the MoPo philosophy to his classroom, encouraging his students to identify their goals for the semester and holding them accountable. He believes that caring for students and helping them achieve their goals creates a positive impact.

Oggy shares his experiences of seeing kids embrace the MoPo message by wearing MoPo wristbands and actively engaging with the philosophy. He plans to expand his efforts by reaching out to sports teams and acting as a motivational speaker to spread the message further.

In conclusion, Oggy Brewer emphasizes the importance of connecting with others, like Christopher Lewis, to expand the reach of the MoPo philosophy and positively impact more lives.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads resources and more to help you be the best dad you can be. Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, you and I are on a journey together. I say this all the time, but it truly is a journey. What you and I are doing to raise our daughters is something that happens day by day, and it's not something that we can always plan for. There's going to be highs, there's going to be lows, there's going to be everything in between.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:47]:

But that being said, there are things that we can do to make it a little bit better. And one of the best ways, one of the greatest things that I would say for all of us to do is to surround us with other men that are doing this. Now, you may not feel comfortable going to that next door neighbor and talking to them about the way that they're being a father, but I'm glad that you're here, because by you being here, you have an opportunity to learn every week, and you have an opportunity to be able to take things that you're learning and incorporate them into your own lives. That's why every week I love having different guests, different guests here with me to share their own experiences in their own journey that they're on in raising their kids. And this week, we got another great guest. Augie Brewer is with us today. Augie is a teacher, a biology teacher, actually, but also does something that we're going to be learning a little bit more about called MoPo for Life, and we're going to talk about that as well. But he's a father of four with two daughters and two sons, so I'm excited to be able to talk to him today for you to get to know him and for us to kind of delve a little bit deeper into his own journey. Oggy, thanks so much for joining us today.

Oggy Brewer [00:01:58]:

Well, thank you for having me. I really appreciate come on. And what you're doing and being able to connect with different guys and dads and how we're raising our daughters. I appreciate being on. So thank you. It's my pleasure. My pleasure.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:14]:

And one of the things that I love to do, first and foremost, I want to turn the clock back in time. Your oldest daughter is 15. I want to go all the way back, all the way back to that first moment when you found out that you're going to be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head? Well, it's funny you asked this question, because my oldest is a boy. I have a son that's 18. And when my wife was pregnant with Olivia, in my eyes, in my head, I really thought we were having another boy, and really all the way up till delivery. And the doctor, when she was delivered, it was by c section. And when she was delivered, the doctor says, looks like a boy, and I'm behind the curtain.

Oggy Brewer [00:02:51]:

And so in my head, this is boy number two. And then those words come out. It's a girl. And I'm telling you, I wasn't sure what to do. I was in a little panic mode of like, oh, my goodness, my world has just changed. And so just trying to understand, okay, I'm going to be a father to a daughter now. And all the emotions and all the things that get stirred up when you have that thought, and obviously not having a playbook for, okay, what am I doing now? So that's the story of when Olivia was born. I love you know, I talked to a lot of dads, and a lot of dads tell me that going into being a father to a daughter, there's some fear there's some fear that goes with that.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:37]:

What would you say has been your biggest fear or fears in raising daughters?

Oggy Brewer

Yeah, I think one fear is just wanting to build up their self esteem and not wanting to be a person that brings that down ever. And so having a fear that maybe something I say or the way I react could bring their self esteem down, and I do not want to do that. So it's that balance of being able to be stern, being able to be encouraging and uplifting them, and also continuing to build that relationship with them, to build up their self esteem. I said you had two daughters, and both of those daughters are very unique individuals, and they have their own personalities, and you have to build different relationships with each of them, that you have to do that with all your kids. Yeah. What have you done to be able to build those unique relationships with each of your daughters? Sure. I believe the first thing is being present, making sure each day they know that I'm present there. And I know we're talking about teenage daughters, and being in a state of a lot of times, they don't make you feel like they want your presence with them all the time, but just because they give that indication doesn't mean that's a free pass to not be present.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:57]:

And so being present every day with them, I'm a man of faith, and I pray with them daily. I think that's important, that they know that someone's praying for them and praying over them and then just connecting with them with the things they enjoy doing. One of my oldest daughters, she enjoys playing basketball, so if I can get out in the driveway and rebound for her, I'm connecting with her that way. My other daughter really enjoys taking drives in the car, and so maybe even though as high as gas prices are. Maybe just getting in the car and taking a drive and spending time with her is a big deal. And connecting with her clearly understand that. My youngest daughter likes driving in the car as well, and she definitely loves being able to get out, listen to music, and just kind of get into some of the back roads. And sometimes we talk, sometimes we just kind of are present.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:51]:

And that happens in teenage years, but at least you're there. And as you said, you're present, you're engaged, and you're showing that you're interested in what they're interested in as well. Now, there are definitely opportunities throughout your kids lives that you have to be able to build memorable experiences, memories that will last a lifetime. What have been some of your most memorable experiences that you've been able to share with your daughters thus far as a dad?

Oggy Brewer

Yeah, I think we try to be strong family, doing things together as a family. And I feel like some of the trips that we have been on as a family have been good time to connect with them. We've taken a trip out west where we went to Glacier National Park and we do some hiking together. Those have been really memorable trips. We also enjoy going to the lake.

Oggy Brewer  [00:06:40]:

One of those places is Dale Hollow Lake in Tennessee, and those are two places, definitely the lake, being in the sun, riding on the boat, they really enjoy those things. And anytime we get a chance to do that, it's a blessing to be able to do it. Now, I know you're a teacher, and as a teacher, you have many kids that you are working with, that you're mentoring, that you have. And sometimes they become even more than just students because they become a part of your lives in many different ways. And then you go home and you are a father of four. Talk to me about balance, because being a teacher, there's not a lot of balance, and there is a lot of work that has to be taken home and there's that work that has to get done for the next day of school and so on and so forth. But how do you balance being not only a biology teacher, but how do you balance that with being a father to four and being able to continue to be present in the lives of your kids? So I've been teaching now for 21 years. It's my 21st year, and probably I think it was four years into it was when my son three years into it was when my son was born.

Oggy Brewer [00:07:56]:

And it didn't take long to figure out, like, hey, there's going to have to be some things that change here for you. Like, you can't just bring your work home, put it on the table, and sit and do your work all the time. So I made a commitment probably five years into it, four or five years into it, to my wife, hey, when I come home, I'm going to set my bag down and I'm dad, and I'm going to be present. If there is work that needs to be done, it'll be done once the kids go to bed. And now, as the kids have gotten older, they are in their rooms more on their own, by themselves. The time that we have together is really at the dinner table. And then if there's homework that they need help on, sometimes they will come to dad. But even in that, they're not always coming straight to dad, right? They want to be by themselves and to themselves.

Oggy Brewer [00:08:49]:

Now, I have some moments I can get into my work at times when they are home, and I do think in that they do see, man, dad does work, and dad is doing some things. So now I'm giving an example to them of putting in some hard work, even though, look, when it comes down to it, they've got my first, they're going to look to me first, and I'm going to give them my presence before I get the work in.

Christopher Lewis

As you said, you have two teenage daughters, and teenage years can be a challenge upon themselves. But as you look back at the lives that they have had, the experiences that you've had, what's been the hardest part of being a father to a daughter?

Oggy Brewer 

I think just the changes that occur, right? Because when they're little, you pull up to the driveway and they're waiting at the door, waiting to give you hugs, waiting to see you, and then there's an excitement, there a joy there. And then how do you maintain that joy as they keep getting older? If you can bottle that up and keep that going, you're doing something right. But again, the challenge then for me as a dad is as I've gotten older, and now there's not that they're not waiting at the door when I get home, but still connecting with them when I do get home. And maybe it's just a quick like, how's your day? Or did anything bring you joy in your day? We try to use that word joy because I love it. And connecting with them still as they've gotten older, and I feel like that's just a continuous challenge every day.

Oggy Brewer  [00:10:22]:

How can I connect with them? And I'm not the best at it. I'm still learning. I'm still growing myself as a dad, but that is a challenge for me every day. I think that that just continues as your kids get older and they move into different phases in their lives. You're going to have to figure it out as you go along. They figure it out as they go along. And you have to be willing to have that grace and to be able to know that you're not going to know everything and you're not going to know how things are going to end up, but that you keep working through it, and that's the only thing you can do, because things are going to change. And I'll agree with you that it is challenging as the kids get older and become more of who they are.

Oggy Brewer [00:11:14]:

But then, yeah, I guess I have to also think back to, okay, what was I like as a teenager as well? And was I present? Did I want to spend time with my parents, too? I think I ended up turning out okay as I got older. So I'm hopeful that as they get older, they'll come back. Well, one thing you say with daughters, or what I've always been told is your daughters are always going to be there to take care of you. They're always going to come back, and they'll take care of dad when that time comes. So we'll see. But I have hope in that. Here's hoping.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:56]:

Now, you and I met over a tweet that you put out there, and one of the things that you put in that tweet was the hashtag girl dad. And that's been around for a bit, was tied back to Kobe Bryant and his daughter and has continued since then to talk about the relationship between a father and daughter and pride with their daughters. As you think of that hashtag, that girl dad. Hashtag, what does being a girl dad mean to you?

Oggy Brewer

I believe it means building a positive relationship with my daughters, trying to help them develop a positive self esteem, and, as we said, just doing something that's connecting with them over and over. You've said self esteem a couple of times, and as a teacher, you see self esteem happening in many different ways, and then you see that in your own daughters. Talk to me about how you see self esteem in girls, your own daughters, girls that you have had in your own classroom manifest itself and what you've learned about what many young women need to be able to have that support and what we can do as fathers to best support that. Well, I believe words are very powerful, and the words that they're hearing has a powerful influence on them. And as many times as you can tell them they're beautiful, they're amazing, meaning it when I say it, not just using those words just to say them, but again, the words they're hearing. And so oftentimes and I see it at school, kids are getting tore down by other kids because of the words that are being used to them or around them. And so, man, what a light you can shine if you're using positive, encouraging words to my daughters or to the kids at school. They're hearing that, and I believe it does. It lifts them up, and it provides a light in their life. 

Christopher Lewis:

I mentioned at the beginning that you have something that you're involved in called MoPo Life or MoPo for Life. Talk to me about that. What is MoPo for life? And what are you trying to do to be able to engage fathers, parents, et cetera in this idea?

Oggy Brewer

Yeah, so during the COVID times when we were all locked in our homes, I decided one of the things I wanted to do was write a book. And I've always had that kind of on my bucket list. And this idea I have MoPo for life. MoPo the day. MoPo stands for Max Out payout. And so this is something you can use in whatever avenue you want. If you want it as a father, you want it as a teacher, as a coach, it applies. And the thought process is what's my purpose every day? What's the purpose that would be my payout and how am I maxing out to get that purpose? What are the things I'm doing to do that? So as a father, if my payout is to try to build a positive relationship with my daughters, then my Max Out has to be to be present, to spend time with them and to do things with them. The message MoPo is supposed to be positive. Again, I coined the phrase MoPo the Day and I use it a lot at school as well. And the other thing I've done with it is I've created a 365 day MoPo the Day calendar and it has a MoPo thought with a Bible verse every day and it's supposed to be uplifting.

Oggy Brewer [00:15:29]:

And I try to put a MoPo thought every day out on X to be uplifting to the people that are looking at that. And you did write the book called MoPo Max Out payout living the MoPo Life, MoPo the Day. I love that. Talk to me about for someone that's never read the book, what are some of the biggest takeaways that you want someone to take away from that book itself? One big thing is just looking at your daily life and trying to understand what's my purpose and what am I doing on a daily basis in that purpose? And then again, how am I maxing out to get it? So it's that message, it's also a devotional, it has questions throughout. So it tries to get the reader to think about their life and think about things that are going on. Also has a lot of Bible verses. So to connect with God and your faith and in all this, for me to be a reflection of Jesus as I share this, so it's to spread positivity, but it's know, just like you and I are doing tonight, to connect with as many people as you can. And man, you wouldn't believe how many times I'm somewhere and I just bring up this MoPo thought and all of a sudden I could connect with someone just by sharing this message.

Christopher Lewis [00:16:49]:

Talk to me about this concept and how you have challenged your own kids to live the MoPo Life and to incorporate that philosophy into what they're doing on a daily basis.

Oggy Brewer

Yeah. So with school right now they're in school, that's a big part of their life. So asking them, what is your goals here? To get out of each day, because I see this every day. A lot of kids just come to school because they're supposed to come to school, and there's not a purpose or a desire to be there all the time. And so the goal, again, is to talk to them before school starts. Like, okay, what's your MoPo for the year? What are we trying to accomplish? Maybe not for the year, but for this nine weeks, what are you wanting to do? So maybe it's to turn in all your homework for this semester, and by turning in all your homework, you're giving yourself a better chance to get a better grade. And I don't believe it's all about grades, but I do believe if you're going to be doing it, there's a purpose behind you doing it, and let's get the most out of it, giving them that challenge as they begin school.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:02]:

So that would be one example. I love that example, and I think that it's definitely something that is actionable, something that kids can take and be able to incorporate. How do you incorporate that into your classroom then?

Oggy Brewer

Yeah, so I will share that message, the MoPo message, with my classes, and again, I will give them a paper to fill out and say, what are you trying to accomplish this semester? And tell me how you're going to do it. And then I want to look at it, and I want to hold you accountable. I want to be a person in your life that's going to help you try to get what you want to get. You're writing it down, so it must be something that's on your heart or on your mind. And now, hey, you got somebody in your life that's going to help you try to reach that goal. And I think for a lot of kids, number one, them knowing that you care, if they know you care, then you can get a lot out of them.

Oggy Brewer [00:18:53]:

And number two, if them even knowing that they have people in their life that do care, obviously, being an educator, as long as I have, that's important to me, and that keeps me going. My juices flowing, too, as I teach. So I enjoy making that connection as we start the semester. And what kind of responses have you gotten from kids, your kids, the kids in your school, or others that have read the book? You know what's interesting is I've got these wristbands that say, MoPo the day. So that's another way I can connect with the kids. I share the message, and I hand out wristbands. And what's been cool is seeing the kids come back the next day and the next day, and they're wearing the wristbands. And so I know there is a connection there because they're keeping them on. If they weren't, there wouldn't be. But just knowing that and then also knowing as they've read the book or as they've heard the message, they want to keep coming back and connecting. And so that's just a positive thing each day to see them come in, to see them want to connect. And I know, okay, now we can go deeper, maybe in biology now with my classes and talk about something just because we connected with the MoPo. 

Christopher Lewis

You worked on this over COVID, you pushed this out there over COVID. You have expanded it. Now talk to me about where is this philosophy now? Where is this effort now, and where do you see it going in the future?

Oggy Brewer

Yeah. So, number one, I don't always know what direction it's going because it's like, what's next on the plate? For me right now, I believe what's next is just going either to sports teams because I coached basketball for a long time. I've taken a backseat a little bit to that now, but I like going and being a little motivational speaker to different teams. I got a lot of coaching connections, so I can call up a coach, say, hey, on Thursdays. You usually do a motivational talk. You bring somebody in from the community, and I'd love to come share a little bit of this motivation with your team. And so I think for me, at this particular moment, it's trying to connect more with other teams from other schools. And like I said, I don't 100% know what direction it's always going, but just by connecting with people like you, I get the message out even more. So I do appreciate connecting with you tonight.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:30]:

Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Fatherhood Five, where I ask you five more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Oggy Brewer

Yeah.

Christopher Lewis

In one word, what is fatherhood?

Oggy Brewer

Love

Christopher Lewis

When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Oggy Brewer

When I got the elf on the shelf for my daughter. 

Christopher Lewis

If I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

Oggy Brewer

I think they would say outgoing, someone that's graceful and someone that loves them a lot.

Christopher Lewis

Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Oggy Brewer

My dad.

Christopher Lewis

You've given a lot of pieces of advice today, things that you've learned along the way as we're finishing up today. What's one piece of advice you wanted to leave with every dad?

Oggy Brewer

Well, one of the things I was thinking about was when you have sons, you know they're carrying on your name, and they're going to carry that legacy on, and I want my daughters to do the same. I want them to carry the legacy of who I am on. And that doesn't mean they'll always keep my last name when they marry, but just in the way that they do life and the way that they connect with people and their faith. I want them to carry on the Brewer a legacy as all of their life.

Christopher Lewis

Oggy, if people want to find out more about you, about MoPo for Life, where can they go to find out more?

Oggy Brewer

Yeah, I have a website, it's called Mopoforlife.com. And you can get on that website and see what I'm trying to do. You can see my book, you can see the 365 day desk calendar and just look and see the things that are going on with MoPo. And that's MoPo. MoPo the number fourlife.com. Auggie, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:13]:

Thank you for sharing your journey with me and for all that you're doing to encourage not only your own kids, but all kinds of kids in your community to live their best life. And I wish you all the best.

Oggy Brewer

Thank you for having me on. It was fun to connect with you and thanks for the interview.

Christopher Lewis

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out The Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And The Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on Fatherhood.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:58]:

Through our extensive course, library, interactive forum, step by step, roadmaps and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out fatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dadswithdaughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes. Today Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week. All geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time we give the lessons, we make the meals we buy them present and bring your A game because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite glass calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men get out and be the one to now be the best dad you can be you, you're the best that you can be.

In this episode of the "Dads with Daughters" podcast, host Christopher Lewis welcomes Jacob Taylor, also known as the Fairway Father, to discuss the journey of fatherhood and how to raise strong and independent daughters.

Christopher starts by emphasizing the importance of learning from fellow fathers and their diverse parenting approaches, highlighting that there's no single right way to be a dad. He introduces Jacob as the guest, a father of two girls, and expresses his excitement about their conversation.

Jacob shares his memorable moment of finding out he was going to be a father to a daughter during a C-section when he announced, "It's a girl." He describes the immediate and intense love he felt, a unique kind of love that he believes can't be experienced elsewhere.

Christopher reflects on his own experience of becoming a girl dad and the journey of raising his daughter, who is now a college freshman, and how time flies.

Jacob talks about cherishing everyday moments with his daughters, from engaging in their hobbies to answering their innocent and thought-provoking questions. He shares a touching memory of watching a sunset with his daughter and discussing the concept of God, which left a profound impact on him.

The conversation shifts to the fears associated with raising daughters. Jacob discusses his initial fear of not understanding how girls think or act due to growing up with all boys. He worried if his daughters would connect with him or prefer their mother. However, he soon realized the misconception, as his daughters developed unique personalities and strong bonds with him.

Jacob offers insights into building individual relationships with each daughter by adapting to their interests and personalities. He highlights the importance of spending one-on-one time with each child and adjusting the way he interacts with them based on their preferences.

Balancing various roles as a father is a challenge many dads face. Jacob emphasizes the need to make thoughtful decisions about hobbies and activities that align with healthy family values. He shares how he reconstructed his hobbies to include his children and create opportunities for shared experiences.

The term "girl dad" has gained popularity, partly thanks to Kobe Bryant, who celebrated his role as a father to daughters. Jacob discusses what it means to be a girl dad, emphasizing the responsibility of setting an example for how daughters should be treated by men. He advocates instilling self-worth, self-image, and the idea that being a girl brings unique opportunities and strengths.

Jacob's project, Fairway Father, is introduced as a platform to encourage fathers to involve their children in hobbies, particularly golf. He believes that golf teaches valuable life lessons such as resilience, dealing with imperfection, and maintaining integrity.

Jacob elaborates on the parallels between golf and life, citing examples of how both involve facing challenges, making mistakes, and learning to adapt. He emphasizes the importance of patience and integrity, values that golf instills and that can be applied to life.

Christopher shares his daughter's experience of joining the girls' golf team in high school and how the mental aspects of golf and teamwork can provide valuable life lessons. The discussion highlights the broader importance of getting kids involved in activities they enjoy.

The episode concludes with a reminder of the significance of actively engaging with children, fostering their interests, and being open to learning from them as they grow. Christopher and Jacob affirm that it's not just about sharing your own passions but also discovering and nurturing what makes your children unique.

The Fairway Father project aims to encourage fathers to bond with their children through golf and other shared activities, promoting not only quality time together but also valuable life lessons.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads resources. And more to help you be the best dad you can be. Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, I love being able to be on this journey with you. Every week we have an opportunity to talk with one another, to walk with one another in this journey that we're on, to raise amazing girls into society today, helping them to be strong and independent, and helping them to find the success that we want for them in life. Now, I say that knowing that there's not one right way to do it. There are so many ways in which we can father. There's not one manual, but we can learn so much from the men that are around us, that are fathering in their own ways, who are learning from other fathers around them and learning from themselves as well. And we can learn from them.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:14]:

So every week, I love being able to bring you different guests, different people that are fathering in different ways that you can learn from, that you can take and be able to see what works, what doesn't work, and incorporate some of those things into your own lives. Today we've got another great guest with us. Jacob Taylor is with us, and Jacob is known as the Fairway Father. We're going to talk about what that is here today, but he's a father of two girls, and we're going to be talking about that as well, of course. And I'm just really excited to have him here today. Jacob, thanks so much for joining me.

Jacob Taylor [00:01:53]:

Oh, thank you for having me. I'm excited.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:55]:

I am excited to be able to have you here to talk to you about the journey that you're on. And one of the first things that I love doing is I love turning the clock back in time. So I'm going to go all the way back to that first moment when you found out that you were going to be a father to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Jacob Taylor [00:02:08]:

Oh, man. So we actually kind of went a nontraditional route and decided not to find out what we were having. And so the moment that I found out was actually in the operating room, we had a C section, and I actually got to announce to the operating room, it's a girl, and just soaking that all in with the realization of, like, this is real. I am a dad. This is my little girl. It was just incredible. I always tell people it's a type of love that you can experience anywhere else because it is an immediate, intense, full on love. Other relationships, you fall in love, you get to know them, but as soon as you see that little face.

Jacob Taylor [00:02:52]:

It is, I am all in. I will do anything for you no matter what. And it's only gotten better from them as well, which is just amazing to even say out loud and comprehend that.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:05]:

I'm smiling because of the fact that your journey in the start was very similar to mine, because we didn't find out as well. And we ended up in the emergency room doing a C section. And I got to say, the doctor is like, tell us what the gender is. So I'm looking and I'm like, oh, it's a girl.

Jacob Taylor [00:03:25]:

Yes.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:26]:

So, yes, I remember that very vividly. And that daughter is now a freshman in college, and the time goes by very fast. And as you said, for you, it's gotten better along the way. And your daughters are still young, but you've had those experiences, you've had those memories that you've been sharing with them so far. What would you say has been your most memorable experience that you've been able to share with them thus far as a dad?

Jacob Taylor [00:03:51]:

I think just having them involved in the day to day life, the hobbies, and just some of their questions that they ask at times, just the innocence and their questions kind of makes me stop and think through things I've never thought through before and just experience sunset differently. Probably one of my most cherished memories was watching a sunset with my daughter, and she was sitting there looking all around and asked me, did God make all of this too? And just seeing that go through her mind and getting to have that conversation with her was one of my favorite memories I think I'll cherish forever and has just again changed my outlook on every sunset, which is pretty cool.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:37]:

It's cool. And I think in becoming a father and becoming a father of daughters, there's some fear that also comes in there. I talked to lots of dads, and there's fear that comes with that. And it's not just fathers of daughters, but it's just being a father in general, too. But there is something to being a father to a daughter that I hear a lot of dads say that there is some fear there. What's been your biggest fear in raising daughters?

Jacob Taylor [00:05:00]:

I think my biggest fear, so I grew up in a household of all boys, brothers and cousins, all boys, so didn't really know how girls thought or act or anything until I got married, met my wife and got married. And so just the fear of will I be able to connect with her? Will I have anything in common with her? Or is she only going to be with Mommy? Is she going to want to do things with Daddy? And obviously, as my two girls gotten older, I've realized that is the furthest thing from the truth.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:30]:

So having two daughters at different ages, you have to build those unique relationships with each of them because the personalities are different and they're different people. So talk to me about how you build those special bonds between each of your daughters to allow for them to have those unique experiences and those unique bonds with that.

Jacob Taylor [00:05:52]:

Yeah, I think it's important, especially as the second one comes along because now you're splitting attention whereas the first child it's a lot easier because they are your sole focus all the time. And so I found it easier with my first daughter to have connections because I'm always with her, always one on one. And so when the second one came along I really make more of an attempt to have just one on one time with her and then finding things that she enjoyed more than what my first daughter enjoyed. They're different personalities completely. My first child is very intuitive and very serious and wants to learn and wants to know about every little thing whereas my second daughter is just goofy and fun loving and she just wants to run around and wrestle around and laugh and play and she doesn't need to ask questions. And so changing how I play with them has really helped connect with both of them.

Christopher Lewis [00:06:48]:

Now, as a dad you wear many hats. There are the things that you do for fun but there's the things that you do to be able to sustain the life that you and your family have. Whether that's some of the things that you're doing with Fairway Father or if it is the professional job that you have, the hobbies that you have within your life. But to do all of those different things, you have to balance and you have to find some type of balance. So talk to me about balance. How do you balance all of those different things to be able to stay engaged and present with your daughters?

Jacob Taylor [00:07:28]:

That is a tough one. Being a dad can bring on a lot of stresses that honestly you're not prepared for. Always tell people whenever they're looking to start that journey of becoming a father that you really find out how selfish you are with your time. And it's a big adjust because now all of my decisions impact my children. So the things that I choose to pursue impact my children. My hobbies that I get into impact my children. And so I have to be really diligent on choosing Hobbs that my children can participate in hobbies that are healthy, that I want my children to maybe follow in or to emulate or to have lessons from. And so that's really how I've had to kind of reconstruct.

Jacob Taylor [00:08:14]:

I could go out and hang out with the guys every other night and bar hop and do this scene. But is that really healthy for my girls to see and to have daddy away from them doing those things? Or is it healthier for me to get into a hobby such as woodworking that I can take them out in the shop and actually show them I'm doing and teach how to use the tools. And golf, I can involve them in that for it. They can ride in a cart with me. They can go to the range with me. I can teach them how to do those things. So I think reconstructing my hobby was the biggest thing for me to be able to still participate in their day to day lives and just having that selflessness with my time of realizing that I may have to miss out on a couple of things. And that's okay if it means spending more time with them and being more involved in their lives.

Christopher Lewis [00:09:04]:

You and I got introduced to one another through a tweet that you put out there. And I responded to it because you were talking about being a girl dad. And I saw a picture of your daughter and you and golfing, I guess for you, girl dad has been kind of a hashtag that's been out there for a number of years now. I kind of came into the light with Kobe Bryant and then went from there for you. What does being a girl dad mean?

Jacob Taylor [00:09:31]:

So, for me, I think being a girl dad brings in this added responsibility when it comes to being a father. I need to lead in a way that shows my daughters how they should be by a man. So I want to emulate how any man in their life should treat them. I need to walk that out with my wife. I need to walk that out with how I treat them, how I speak to them. I will not raise my voice to my wife or to my children if that's not what I want them to expect from other men in their life. I think I also need to really preach self image and self worth, unfortunately. I know a lot of women struggle with that.

Jacob Taylor [00:10:12]:

Being in the field that I'm in, I've studied that quite a bit. And trying to instill that you are worthy, that you have worth, that you are special as a woman, I think that's really a message that I have to carry. And then showing them that you have so many great opportunities because you are a girl. Because you are a woman and there are so many wonderful avenues for you, be it academics, sports, Hobies, whatever they want to choose to do that you don't use it in spite of being a woman, that you get to pursue this because you are a woman. You have special abilities that men, most men do not have that makes you so special. And so I think that's really kind of the drive that I have with being a girl dad is just raising them to be proud of who they are.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:04]:

I've mentioned a couple of times the hobby, the passion that you have for golf, and that you have a site called Fairwayfather. So talk to me about Fairwayfather.com and what you've created there? Why did you decide to start this platform and what are you trying to teach other dads through this?

Jacob Taylor [00:11:22]:

Yeah, absolutely. So Fairway Fathers is a new thing that I recently started earlier this year. And the purpose of it is to encourage other fathers to involve their children and their hobbies in their life and particularly golf, because I see that as such a great avenue, especially for young children, for young girls. I think there is just so many opportunities in that game. I think golf instills a lot of important morals. I think it instills character. It's one of the sports that you can hide yourself. It's one of those sports that really uphold integrity.

Jacob Taylor [00:11:56]:

Integrity is such a big part of the game and so I think there's a lot of values that can come out of that game. And so my goal with Fairway Father is just to encourage fathers or parents to get their kids out into that game so that they can learn lessons and also want to involve the fitness side of it, the nutrition side of it, setting healthy habits and lifestyle choices in front of your children and walking through that with them. Because making those choices are difficult at times and it's not always the easy thing to do, it's not always what you want to do, but you owe it to your children to walk that out with them. So Fairway Father is just kind of a way that doing carriage to help people understand how they can get into the game of golf and how they can get into other hobbies and lead their children through those things.

Christopher Lewis [00:12:45]:

So you mentioned the fact that you see a lot of parallels and things that can happen in the sport of golf that parallel life and parallel things in life that you're hoping to teach your own daughters and that you're hoping that other fathers can teach their children as well. Talk to me about some of those things that you have found as someone that has been in the sport and that enjoys the sport, but now that is trying to instill that in your own daughters. What are some of those life lessons that you're trying to impart?

Jacob Taylor [00:13:17]:

As we watch the pros play right now, it's coming to the close of the season and so really good tournament. We're watching these guys that are professional, this is their life, this is their livelihood, this is what they do every single day. And when you look at their scorecard, very often you see a perfect scorecard. You don't see a birdie on every hole, you oftentimes see bogeys. So even the best guys make mistakes and that's kind of the same way of life. We can do everything exactly right. We can go to the most, see the school. We study as hard, we can make all the great test grades, we can set up our 401 the best way that we know how to, all of these things that we can work on.

Jacob Taylor [00:14:04]:

But something may still happen. Can hit a sprinkler head. And as ball launched 30 yards over the green, and life works like that, too. You may have a car accident on the way to work that now you don't have a car. You may have an injury or sick that sets you back, and you may lose your job because of it. And life happens like that. There is no such thing as perfection in life. And I think golf really teaches you how to handle whenever something comes up like that, you kind of have to brush it off and move on to the next shot.

Jacob Taylor [00:14:37]:

So same thing with life. Someone gets thrown in your face if you sulk over it. Your next decision is probably not going to be as good, and then your next decision is probably not going to be as good. Or you can adjust your mindset and say, okay, this happened, it stinks. Here's what I'm going to do better next time. Here's what I'm going to change next time. I think golf is just a great life teacher. A lot of patience can be taught through the game of golf.

Jacob Taylor [00:15:04]:

And again, like I said, integrity is in the game of golf. And so I just think golf has such a great parallel with life if we really study the game and consider our life while we're out there playing the game.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:15]:

So talk to me a little bit about your kids are still young, and you've got what, four year old and.

Jacob Taylor [00:15:22]:

A two year old?

Christopher Lewis [00:15:23]:

Two year old. So teaching some of those lessons is going to be in kind of those incremental steps. What are some of the things that you've done so far, especially with your four year old, let's say, that have started to help her to understand some of these concepts.

Jacob Taylor [00:15:40]:

I think as kids, especially, they want to do it the right way the first time because they see maybe Daddy hit the ball and he hit it really far. Well, when I hit the ball, it doesn't go very far or I miss whenever I swing. And so you kind of have to teach them to laugh through their failures. Do it again, try again. Oh, wow, you hit it further than last time. And so I think putting it into perspective is really helpful when it comes to life lessons of it's not going to be perfect, and Daddy doesn't expect you to be perfect. Daddy is not perfect. Daddy does not expect you to be perfect.

Jacob Taylor [00:16:14]:

And so I love golf because there's just so many little lessons like that of we can practice really hard and we still mess up, and that's okay. That's the fun of the game. That's what makes the game fun, is the ball doesn't always go straight. And if it doesn't go straight, well, guess what? We get to go find it and hit it again, and we may see something really cool over by the water that we wouldn't have seen whenever we were in the fairway. And so just trying to make things fun, making golf attainable, making success isn't getting the ball in the hole for them. Success is making it three holes while still being excited and still being engaged.

Christopher Lewis [00:16:51]:

Now, you've been doing this for a little bit of time, and like you said, it's newer, but what kind of responses have you been getting from other people as you've been sharing this content out with them?

Jacob Taylor [00:17:00]:

I think I've gotten some encouraging responses from other fathers, and I think they've been encouraged to get their children involved in the game. A lot of times, golf is seen as an adult game or an older adult game. A lot of times we see a bunch of older men and women out on the golf course, and you never see children out there. And if you do, it's usually frowned upon, or they're in a cart playing on an iPad, and they're just there because Daddy had to watch the kid today, but he wanted to go golf. So I think a lot of fathers have been encouraged, it's okay if I take my kid out with me to golf or even to the Chipping Green or if I have a golf simulator, I can get them out there and hitting balls or out in the yard. And I think father has been encouraged by that, and I think it's hopefully emboldening them to take them out more and changing that narrative of kids are in the way kids are allowed. Wow, this is a great opportunity to teach the kids the game that we love so that the game continue to grow. I know the hashtag growthegame has become really popular lately, and that's what we're trying to do.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:11]:

I love that, and I think that I've seen in my own daughter's life. She joined the girls golf team when she was going through high school herself. She had never picked up clubs in her whole life and then decided, one day, hey, I'm going to go join the golf team. And I was kind of like, okay. And she had been a soccer player for many, many years, loved playing soccer, but there were things about soccer she didn't like, too. And one of the things she said about golf that she really loved was that it is a team sport, but it's all about mentally where you are. And you have to be mentally ready, personally ready to play a good game to then be able to support the rest of the teammates that are trying to mentally be ready to be on their game as well. And there's a lot of parallels there to life.

Jacob Taylor [00:19:06]:

Absolutely.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:07]:

So I really appreciate you sharing that, because I think that there's a lot of opportunity there for people to be able to whether it's golf, whether it's tennis, whether it's pickleball, whether it's whatever. I think what I'm hearing you say, Jacob, is the engagement piece. Getting kids active, doing things with you as a father, that's the most important piece. As you said earlier, maybe it's woodworking, maybe it's whatever it is. But if your kid is able to actively be involved with you, not only are they going to learn from you, but they're going to love that time together. I talk to fathers and daughters, and sometimes the daughters will tell me about the fact that they're the biggest Green Packer fan is because she and her dad would sit down on Sundays during football season. They would watch, and that would be the way that they bonded, and then that ended up rubbing off on her. And that doesn't always happen, but there are things like that where you have those bonds, those things, and sometimes you have to step back and figure out, okay, what is my daughter really like? What is she into? And how can I get into that too? Because it's not just, let's share everything that I like, but what does she like and get into that too.

Jacob Taylor [00:20:36]:

That is super important because I think it also gives your children a sense of their opinion matters to you whenever you do that, whenever you let them kind of lead. And it's a good chance for you to learn something new and grow in.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:48]:

That definitely is the case. And there's going to be many times in life as your child grows that there's going to be that ebb and flow, and you're going to have to be flexible and allow them to take the lead at times. You're going to take the lead at times, but especially as they get older, you're going to have to let them take the lead a lot more of the time because otherwise they're just going to pull away and then everybody gets frustrated. I've been there, I've done this.

Jacob Taylor [00:21:14]:

Listen, I'm taking notes now.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:16]:

We always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Fatherhood Five, where I ask you five more questions that delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Jacob Taylor [00:21:24]:

Yeah, absolutely.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:25]:

In one word, what is fatherhood

Jacob Taylor:

Journey

Christopher Lewis:

When was a time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Jacob Taylor [00:21:33]:

I'd say whenever my daughter saw something on TV that a boy was doing, and she looked at it and said, well, Daddy, I can do that too. Even if I'm not a boy, I can do that.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:44]:

Now, if I was to talk to your I'm going to say your four year old, because your two year old might not have a lot to say. Maybe you never know. How would your daughters describe you?

Jacob Taylor [00:21:54]:

I think silly would definitely be a word that would come up. I think she'd probably describe me as snugly because we love our morning snuggle together. My four year old and I and I think she would say strong because she knows that daddy works out and she loves coming out there with me whenever I work out.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:17]:

Now, who inspires you to be a better dad?

Jacob Taylor [00:22:19]:

I'd say I had fantastic role models in my life. My dad was a great dad and my mother was a great mother. But I think the person inspires me the most is my wife. My wife is just an amazing mom. I mean, just leads by example really pushes me to be a better person. And so seeing her, she actually stays at home with our girls. We're able to have her stay at home with my daughters. And so just seeing the effort that she puts into day to day life with my girls and how much she's able to teach them and just every day it seems like when I come home, they've learned something new and they're so excited to share it with me.

Jacob Taylor [00:22:57]:

And then just seeing how well she loves on them, even in times of frustration and times of stress, she just does a great job of still being lovable, being patient. And I take a lot of lessons from her and I think that really pushes me to step up and be a better father.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:14]:

You've given a lot of piece of advice today. You've shared a number of different things. What's one piece of advice you'd want to give to every dad as we finish up today?

Jacob Taylor [00:23:23]:

I would say take into account the actions that you're doing today because it's going to have generational impact. You're not only affecting your daughters, but you're affecting the next generation as well. If they choose to have children, they're going to take a lot of lessons that you've taught them and teach their children and that's going to be passed down the line. Be diligent in the choices that you make and the lifestyle that you live. Choose them over most of your lifestyle habits and you're going to see a lot of fruit from that because they are future. Going out, hanging out with friends, going out on the town like that is not your future. Your future are in the eyes of your little girl.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:02]:

Well, Jacob, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for all that you're doing to engage with fathers in fairway father. I'll make sure that people have the link, but if you're trying to find it, it's just easily fairwayfather.com. You can find it there. But I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today, your continual journey today. And I truly wish you all the best.

Jacob Taylor [00:24:27]:

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate it and this was an awesome time. I really, really enjoyed this.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:33]:

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course, library, interactive forum, step by step, roadmaps and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out@fatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes. Today.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:19]:

Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time we give, the lessons we make, the meals we buy them present and bring your A game because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite glass calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men get out and be the one to down be the best dad you can be be the best dad you can be.

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads resources and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:

Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, you and I are on a journey together. We have an opportunity to sit down together, to talk and to learn and grow from every dad that I talk to on the show. And the reason for that is that being a dad doesn't have to be a solitary thing. And so many dads that I've talked to over the years talk about the misunderstanding, the misconception, the kind of societal norms that sometimes make you think that you have to go it alone, that you have to man up, that you have to do all these things to figure it out for yourself. And that's really not the case. There are so many dads that are around you.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:09]:

There are so many dads that are doing the fatherhood thing, and you can learn so many things from them. So every week I love being able to talk with you, but also to bring you dads that are fathering in different ways, that have learned different things, both positive and maybe negative, that can help you along the journey that you are on as well. And that's an important thing because all of us need to understand that we're going to make mistakes along the way. All of us need to understand that we can ask for help. And even if you're not willing to ask for help, you can listen, you can learn, and you can find some new tools that you can add to your toolbox that will help you to be that dad you want to be this week. We've got another great dad joining us today. Craig Bennett is with us and Craig is a main head football coach down in Georgia, and we are going to be talking about his journey as a father of two daughters and learn a little bit more about him and about the experiences that he's had. And I'm really excited to have him here.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:20]:

Craig, thanks so much for joining us.

Craig Bennett [00:02:22]:

Thank you so much for having me. It's definitely an honor.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:25]:

My pleasure having you here today. One of the first things I love doing is I like to turn the clock back in time. And I know you've got two daughters. I'd love to turn the clock all the way back, all the way back to that first moment when you found out that you were going to be a dad to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Craig Bennett [00:02:39]:

Amazing. Just the guy would bless me with such a gift. And I had a brother and there was no daughters in our family, and so he had already had two daughters. My brother and so this was going to be the third granddaughter on our side of the family. So your typical response was, you're a football coach, you had a brother, don't you want a boy? And I said no. I really didn't. I did not care. And when it was a girl, I was elated.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:08]:

So like you just said, someone asked you, you don't want a boy? And you said, Nah, you didn't matter. It didn't matter to you. For you, why didn't it matter?

Craig Bennett [00:03:19]:

Mostly just because I just wanted a healthy child. I mean, that was a blessing from God. It didn't matter to me, boy or girl, didn't matter.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:29]:

So a lot of dads that I talked to talk to me about that when walking into fatherhood, but also walking into being a father of a daughter, that there's a little bit of fear that goes in there. Maybe there's a lot of fear, but there's some fear that definitely is there. What would you say was your biggest fear in raising daughters?

Craig Bennett [00:03:46]:

Probably being too hard on them. Honestly, just growing up on a farm and growing up, my brother, myself, both had opportunity to play college football. And so you had this rough and tough and macho world that we grew up in and just making sure that I was doing the right thing and doing right for her and to her and all of that, unpack that a.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:10]:

Little bit for me. So what did you have to do to be able to, as you said, not be too hard and to kind of maybe soften the outer shell a little bit that you might not have typically done well?

Craig Bennett [00:04:23]:

And I'll tell you, it really goes back to a moment in time, and not necessarily when she was born. We were in a playoff game and still was a young coach and still very immature. And it's very immature as a dad as well. And when you lose a game, you tend to bring that loss home and nobody wants to be around you. And I remember distinctly we lost a playoff game and my daughter, she was a little over one years old, and she comes running up to me and I'm mad and I'm frustrated that we lost. And she has her arms wide open and it hit me really like a ton of bricks that she doesn't care if we win or lose this game or not and why should I let my emotions impact her? And so that moment I decided that I was not going to bring those things home and that was really because of her.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:10]:

Did you have to do anything to be able to flip that switch? Did you have to do some work for yourself to be able to make that happen? Because for a lot of us, we can say it, but to make it happen takes some work and is not always easy work to do.

Craig Bennett [00:05:28]:

Yeah, and I'll be honest, I didn't. The look in her eyes running to me with her arms open, that was it for me. And it was either going to give up this thing you love in your coaching career or you're going to treat your daughter the right way and not take anything out on her that she has no control over whatsoever. So it was pretty instantaneous.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:50]:

Honestly appreciate you sharing that. Now you have two daughters. Everyone that has multiple kids tells me the same thing and I have two daughters myself. Personalities are very different amongst the girls and you have to be able to build strong relationships, but unique relationships with each of your kids. Talk to me about what you've had to do to be able to build those unique relationships with each of your daughters.

Craig Bennett [00:06:15]:

I think just understanding those differences and sometimes we want our lives easy and we want cookie cutter things where everything's identical and it just makes life easy and learned early on they were going to be very different and had to approach them differently, had to speak to them differently. Everything from schoolwork to athletics to social life, everything's different. And thinking, just accepting who they are and not trying to change them or mold them into being the bigger sister or being the younger sister, it was, hey, you guys are very different and we're going to accept that and move forward and do the best we can.

Christopher Lewis [00:06:53]:

So getting to know your kids, you get to also know the things that they love to do and you definitely have specific things that you love to do. As you look at both of your daughters, what are the favorite things that you like to do or share with each of your individual daughters?

Craig Bennett [00:07:13]:

And it's time, it doesn't matter to me. I don't really have a favorite thing I like to do with either one of them. It's just the time that we get to spend. And being a high school football coach, my time is very limited anyway. And so we made an early choice early in our marriage and being early parents to say the time we get, we're going to spend and not bring things home. And I gave up golf because I was 4 hours away from them and spending money and I wasn't very good anyway, so that was easy. But even simple things like, hey, if we're going to meet as a staff, we're going to meet in the mornings. That's when my girls were asleep and most kids are and it saved me some time in the evenings to be able to spend with them and it's just we enjoy being with them and I think they would say the same.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:02]:

So raising kids in general has its high moments. It's got its low moments, it's got everything in between. As you look back at the lives of both of your daughters, what's been the hardest part of being a father to a daughter?

Craig Bennett [00:08:15]:

Oh, gosh middle school. Just the emotions that young girls go through and the struggles of middle school and everything from what they wear every day to who their friends are and what sports they do or whatever, what classes they're in. That was a hard time, I think, for everybody, even parents of young men at that age. I think they're going through a lot of changes and just to be there, support them and help them grow into who they're going to be, hopefully. So that was a tough time.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:52]:

It is definitely a tough time. And I can think of both my daughters having to go through their own learning and own journeys and you want to save them from every single thing and you can't always save them from every single thing because they've got to learn and they've got to grow. But you definitely want to, and you want to lift them up and hold them and help them through it and tell them that it's all going to be okay. And it typically is, but at that point in time it's not to them.

Craig Bennett [00:09:22]:

No.

Christopher Lewis [00:09:24]:

Now, you are a busy guy. You are the head football coach for the Cambridge High School football team. And as you said, it takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of time, especially throughout the fall as you are working with your team and you are also working with other teams at your high school, as working with other athletic teams as well. And that takes you away from your family as well. So talk to me about balance. And balance is sometimes a bad word, but it's something that we all have to deal with, we all have to think about and all have to try to grapple with. How have you been best able to balance both work and being that engaged, present dad that you wanted to be?

Craig Bennett [00:10:13]:

And I'll be honest, I don't always do a great job of that. And that's something you got to work on daily and constantly. I would say. I try to compartmentalize everything at work. I'm going to be at work. Obviously, if those two need me, they know they're going to be able to get me. But when I'm at home, I don't bring the work home, I don't bring my computer home, I don't bring huddle home, video, whatever. I'm going to try to spend that time as much as I can with them.

Craig Bennett [00:10:41]:

You do say balance and people sometimes look at that and say there's never true balance, but if you don't work for it, it'll slip away from you. And I think I learned that, like I said early in my career, just say, look, if I can't get it done at school and get it done in the time that we're there and the time that we're spending, then it probably doesn't need to get done. And a lot of coaches, and I think I learned this early in my career as well. A lot of coaches say, hey, family is first your faith and then your family. But they wouldn't live that out. And football became ever so more important than family during the season. And it was hard as a young coach to say, well, you've told me family is important, but yet your actions don't show that. And so that's been one of my goals as a head coach.

Craig Bennett [00:11:25]:

I think sometimes you learn more what not to do through people you work for and work with than to do what they did. So I learned that early on. Look, if we're going to say it, we're going to try to live it out and make that important, make those decisions important, and the game will disappear for all of us, but family doesn't.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:44]:

You and I got introduced through a tweet that you put out there. I saw a tweet of your daughter, and you used that hashtag Girl dad that's been around for quite a few years. And I guess for me, one of the questions I would love to ask you is for you, what does being a girl dad mean?

Craig Bennett [00:12:02]:

Honestly, just pride. I mean, just pride in who they are. And it's something to me very special to be a girl dad. To say, I'll be honest with you, I didn't go with the trend a couple of years ago when it became really trendy, I guess you could say. But, yeah, it's special. There's a bond, I think, with dads and daughters that's incomparable, and I'm not throwing any other relationship away or anything like that, but it's a special bond.

Christopher Lewis [00:12:31]:

I'd be remiss to not have you brag a little bit about the image that I was talking about. And I saw an image of your daughter at Valdesta State and playing football for their team. Tell me the story behind how she got into playing football and now is playing NCAA football.

Craig Bennett [00:12:52]:

Yeah, it's unique. She played soccer growing up. She played soccer at four years old. And I got to be a little bit honest here. She played in a co ed league with little boys and little girls, and I would always give her a dollar for every little boy she knocked down. I probably shouldn't say that out loud. She was always very physical. So she would tell me she was going to play football and she'd be my quarterback, and we would laugh kind of joke.

Craig Bennett [00:13:14]:

And so this progressed throughout her young soccer career. And as a 9th grader, she said, I want to come kick for you. And I said, well, you're going to come out there and try it. I'll let you try. And the first extra point at a practice she made, and she made like, I think she was like 13 or 14 in a row, but her soccer schedule wouldn't allow it. And so her sophomore year, I'll never forget, she came up to me at school and she said, I just got my soccer schedule. I said, okay, good, that's great. What is it like? She goes, I can play football.

Craig Bennett [00:13:42]:

So I immediately took her to locker room and put a helmet on her and it kind of grew from there, to be honest with you, that she was a JV kicker for us as a sophomore and got to kick in a varsity game. We were up pretty big and she got to go in and kick in a varsity game, which was pretty cool because there's not too many in high school football that get to do that. And then as a junior, one of our young men got really sick and had to withdraw from school. He was our starting kicker. And so she kind of assumed those responsibilities. I think she was 90 out of 95 in two years as extra points. And she did some kickoffs. She had a touchdown saving tackle that helped us win a game on a kickoff.

Craig Bennett [00:14:25]:

And so she had some accomplishments with our region in Georgia, and we went and made the playoffs two years in a row while she was kicking for us. She wanted the opportunity, and it's tough, it's a tough deal to have a female on your football team and there's locker room that you have to deal with and dressing out at different places and all of those things. And so every coach I would send her stats to, every coach that I knew, I knew a lot of college coaches, and they would say, yeah, we'll take a walk on kicker, and I'd have to then text them, hey, Coach, this is my daughter. And it would kind of go radio silent. So long story short, I'm not going to tell you the whole story. She decided just to go to Valdosta State, who has been a Division Two powerhouse for many, many years. And we had a chance meeting with the Dean, and he had actually evaluated the officials for one of our playoff games. And we were like, well, our daughter kicked.

Craig Bennett [00:15:22]:

And so it kind of progressed from there. And they gave her a tryout and she made the team as a walk on last year. And now we just got told this week she's going to get the dress for home games. And if I'm not mistaken, I searched and searched. I think she's right now the only female on any NCAA roster.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:40]:

That's amazing. Congratulations to her and to your whole family and working with her throughout the years because it takes a whole family to make that happen. But good luck to her in this season. That is a great story.

Craig Bennett [00:15:54]:

Thank you so much.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:54]:

And the other thing that I think that really it goes into what you said, that she's breaking barriers by doing this too, and it's not going to be an easy road for her in being the only female on the team. And my hope for her is that she has people around her that are supportive on the team that are helping her to be able to manage that. She seems like a strong individual and can probably handle herself, but it's always good to have those people around her that will support that and support her and work to help to lift her up in that way.

Craig Bennett [00:16:34]:

Yes, sir. Absolutely she is. And I'd be remiss if I didn't say something about our state coaching staff. They have been phenomenal to her and treat her like a daughter as well as the young men on that team. They have accepted her, and she had earned a lot of that. But it's just a class program for how they've treated my daughter, and that's all you can ask as a dad.

Christopher Lewis [00:16:58]:

Definitely. Now, one of the things that you and I talked about goes back to coaching and a lesson that you learned as you were coaching a different sport. But can you tell me a little bit about that, what you learned as a coach of basketball that made you have to make some changes in your own life that would help you to be able to be a better dad?

Craig Bennett [00:17:18]:

Yeah, no doubt. My oldest daughter, she was a phenomenal athlete, played basketball, was a competition cheerleader. And so at that moment, I was a high school girls basketball coach. So she was around the girls a lot and always with us. And so she wanted to play basketball and be like some of those girls that she grew up watching. And I think that the thing that I regret is probably one of my biggest regrets is I was the coach. I was her coach. I never coached her.

Craig Bennett [00:17:49]:

I was never her titled coach, but I coached her in the car on the way home. I coached her from the stands, and that's the worst thing you can do. I know better as a coach. And so she decided to quit. And I go back to those moments that I was constantly coaching her instead of just enjoying watching her play and enjoying what she did. And she quit playing basketball, and she was really good. And so my regret advice, I guess, would be to tell Dads to enjoy it, let them grow up, and don't ruin it for them.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:23]:

As I did tell that that definitely impacted the way that you father and as your oldest that got older. Did you ever talk to her about that and reflect back on that and what was her reaction as she grew up and maybe her reaction now as you talk about it?

Craig Bennett [00:18:43]:

Yeah, I did. I apologized to her several times over and over again because I felt like I stole something that she really, really enjoyed, and I made it not enjoyable. And she was like, It's okay. Don't worry about it. It's no big deal. I just didn't want to play anymore anyway. I still truly believe that it was me that forced her to stop playing, but she went on to do some cheerleading and really enjoyed that. And now she's going into athletic training and she's back with me on the sideline right now.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:14]:

That's great. And I love hearing that she's going to be able to get to now work with you in a whole different way and working with you on the sideline, I'm sure that she's excited about that as well. And it's going to give you both an opportunity to grow your bond even further and get to know each other in a different way than you probably have before, too.

Craig Bennett [00:19:33]:

Yes, sir. No doubt.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:34]:

We always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Fatherhood Five, where I ask you five more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. You ready?

Craig Bennett [00:19:41]:

Yes, sir. I hope so.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:42]:

In one word, what is fatherhood love? Was a time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Craig Bennett [00:19:50]:

I hope in the near future, if.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:52]:

I was to talk to your daughters and ask them, how would they describe you as a dad?

Craig Bennett [00:19:58]:

Oh, gosh. Loving but demanding.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:00]:

Who inspires you to be a better dad?

Craig Bennett [00:20:02]:

Probably my dad passed away last November. That would be it been a lot.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:06]:

Of pieces of advice, things that you've learned along the way. What's one piece of advice you'd want to give to every dad that's listening?

Craig Bennett [00:20:14]:

Take it all in. And I know everybody says that and how fast it goes, but goodness, take it all in. The good, the bad, just enjoy the journey.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:23]:

Well, Craig, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your own journey. Thank you for sharing your daughter's journey with us as well. And I wish you all the best.

Craig Bennett [00:20:33]:

Thank you so much and it was an honor to be on and I appreciate it.

Christopher Lewis [00:20:37]:

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out The Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And The Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on Fatherhood. Through our extensive course, library, interactive forum, step by step, roadmaps and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out@fatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dadswithdaughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes. Today Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:26]:

We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week. All geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be. We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny, screaming passengers we spend the time we give, the lessons we make, the meals we buy them present. Bring your A game because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men. Get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

In this episode of the "Dads with Daughters" podcast, host Christopher Lewis discusses fatherhood, blended families, and raising daughters with guest Ryan Ottinger. They delve into various aspects of parenting and the unique challenges and rewards of being a "girl dad."

Christopher emphasizes the importance of understanding that fatherhood is a journey with its ups and downs, and it's crucial not to go through it alone. He highlights the value of learning from other dads and sharing experiences to become the best possible fathers to their daughters.

Ryan, a father of two biological children and three stepchildren, discusses the challenges and joys of blending families. He emphasizes the significance of setting a positive example as a male role model and ensuring a strong family-oriented upbringing. Ryan shares his experiences coaching his children in sports, emphasizing the importance of being present and involved in their lives.

The conversation touches on finding a balance between work and family life. Ryan talks about how having a flexible job with a short commute allowed him to be present for his children and attend their events, reinforcing the importance of making time for family.

Ryan and Christopher discuss the unique relationships they have with their children and the importance of recognizing and nurturing each child's interests and passions. They stress the value of quality one-on-one time with each child, tailoring their parenting approach to each child's needs.

The episode also explores the concept of being a "girl dad" and what it means to take pride in raising strong, independent daughters. Both hosts express their deep pride in their daughters' accomplishments and the fulfillment that comes with guiding them towards successful futures.

In the final segment, they touch on the emotional journey of leaving a child at college and the bittersweet transition as children grow and gain independence. Christopher emphasizes the importance of preparing children for adulthood and celebrating their readiness for the next chapter.

Overall, the episode provides valuable insights into fatherhood, blended families, and the joys and challenges of raising daughters, highlighting the significance of being present, supportive, and nurturing as fathers.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads resources and more to help you be the best dad you can be. Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast, where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women in really excited to have you back again this week. As always, you and I are on a journey together. We are working together to try to figure this fatherhood thing out. It's not always an easy thing, not always simple. We go through ups and downs and there's always going to be that in the lives of our daughters, but also the lives that we have. And we have to be able to understand and know how to ride that roller coaster as it goes on.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:57]:

Now, that being said, we don't have to do this alone. And it's so important for you to understand that you're not alone in this journey. And whether you're comfortable talking to that neighbor of yours that has kids or not, we're still here. And I love being able to talk to you every week and to bring you resources and other dads that are doing fatherhood in different ways because you can learn from every father that comes on this show to help you to be the best dad that you can be. This week, we got another great guest with us. Ryan Odinger is with us today, and Ryan is a father of two biological kids and step kids, so he has a blended family, so we'll be talking a little bit about that, but we'll also be talking a little bit about a few other things and learn a little bit more about him and about the experiences that he's had. And I'm really excited to have him here. Thanks so much for joining us.

Ryan Ottinger [00:01:59]:

Thanks for having me. My pleasure. Having you here today. One of the first things I love doing is I like to turn the clock back in time. And I know you've got two daughters. I'd love to turn the clock all the way back, all the way back to that first moment when you found out that you were going to be a dad to a daughter. What was going through your head? Amazing. I've never been more terrified.

Ryan Ottinger [00:02:17]:

Being a dad of a daughter is the longest roller coaster of joy and fear that you could be on in a great way in all aspects, but I knew how to be a boy and I knew how to be a man, but I didn't have any idea what to do with a little girl. And I was scared to death. But it turned out to be one of, if not the most rewarding experiences of my life. Fatherhood is a rewarding experience and definitely can be fearful as well. There's fear in not only having kids in general, but I talk to a lot of dads and a lot of dads say that there is fear that goes along with being a father to a daughter. What would you say has been your biggest fear in raising a daughter? My biggest fear is just as she moves forward. She's a freshman in college now. I've always tried to set an example of what a male role model should be in her life.

Ryan Ottinger [00:03:14]:

Whether it will be a teacher, a coach, future employer, husband, whatever the case may be that they should have a positive impact in her life. And I try to lead by example on that. I don't always get it right. That's part of parenting. If I could turn back the clock, there's probably a few things I would do different. But overall, she's amazing and I may take a tiny bit of credit for that, but she's been just a joy to father and she's made it easy. Our relationship has been nothing but friendship the entire time. We were best friends, always did stuff together.

Ryan Ottinger [00:03:53]:

I included her in my stuff, which I think is huge, and then also I wanted to be included in her stuff. We would take her when she was little to the mall and get makeovers and stuff like that, just her and I. And I think that's huge too. It has to be a partnership. It can't just be all that dad wants to do and sit and watch football or go fishing or whatever. But it doesn't always have to be all makeup and whatever she was into. We just kind of tried to find a good mix of what we both enjoyed and it worked out fantastic. I think it's important to be able to find those things that not only your child is passionate about, but you're passionate about too, that you can, as you said, kind of share both together.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:35]:

As you think about the relationship that you have with your daughter, what would you say is the thing that you love to share most with your daughter? I think that what I'm most proud about is just the person that she has turned out to be. She is all the good that I wanted her to be with very little, if any, of a negative as far as just being a good person, being a valuable member of society, being a good friend. And she loves family, which is a value that I've tried to instill. She makes time for us, she makes time for her cousins, step brothers and sisters, her brother. She's just always available and she puts family first. And I think that if I've taught her anything, that is probably what I'm the most proud of, is the fact that she is very family oriented. And I think she may be the type of girl who just once she spreads her wings after college, she may never come back to live in her hometown. But I think that we've dug enough roots that she will always value family and where she came from.

Ryan Ottinger [00:05:39]:

That's the only thing that we can do. And I have a daughter that's just like that. You and I both have freshmen in colleges, are in college. And I know that I don't believe that she will move back anywhere near where we are and she will spread her wings and fly and do amazing things in her life. But the thing that I hope too, is that she will always have those roots, always have the family to be able to draw from, no matter where she is, whether it's in Michigan, in Washington, DC. In the United States, or somewhere else. So I think that's all we can do as fathers, as parents, is to plant those seeds along the way and try to hope that they take root, as you said, because that will help them to only be more successful as they grow. Now, as we raise our children, there are times where you have opportunities to build really strong, memorable experiences, to have to build those memories with our children.

Christopher Lewis [00:06:50]:

What would you say has been the most memorable experience that you've been able to have thus far as a father to a daughter? I would say being able to coach her in athletics. She is in high school and all through her life has been just a superb athlete. And the opportunity to coach her and the opportunity for her to enjoy it, I've seen in the past, and I've been in parenting situations and coaching situations where they don't always blend. It's tough to treat everybody the same, whether it's good or bad. And she is such an amazing, hard worker. And to be able to coach her, see the learning process kind of going through her head, and then her incorporating that, it really touched me because a lot of it sometimes kids say, okay, and as kids, I was the same way. You probably figure that, you know, it a little bit better, especially as you get older. But she was always so coachable and just an appetite for knowledge in any subject.

Ryan Ottinger [00:07:49]:

And I think that's the thing that I will remember most about growing up as she was growing up, just being able to coach her and her really transferring that to whatever activity she was involved in at that time. I love that. I can say that I've never coached, but I always was involved with the team. And at times I was an assistant coach, though I can't say that I was really the coach. I would be there, I would engage with the kids, I would help the kids. I don't know that I had the skill set to be the full coach in that regard, but I tried my best. Being out there, that's just as important as anything else, just being involved, I think. Now, I know that you work in utilities.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:30]:

That's a challenging job. It can be a time consuming job. And you also made the comment that you try to make sure that you're present and that you were involved in your kids lives. Talk to me about balance and what you had to do to be able to find that balance between work, family and all the other hats that you wore. I've been at the utilities here in my hometown since 1999 and I've always tried to find a balance with my kids. And there were job opportunities that had a commute or involved travel. But the job that I have now is three minutes, four minutes from home. And I had the flexibility with a wonderful workplace.

Ryan Ottinger [00:09:13]:

If my kids ever were to fall ill at school, I could leave right away and go home, take care of them, no questions asked, and never missed a sporting event. Now, if we had emergencies, the normal schedule and the day to day balance, I was there when they got home from school. I was able to take them a lunchbox if they forgot it. I was able to take them practice clothes if they forgot it for after school. And I think that that is huge. And I think just being present, there's a lot of times where the kids would be on their phones in the living room, but I always love that compared to them going in their bedroom and closing the door, it's just being present and being involved with them, even if it's just sitting around in the living room. And now that they're gone, you really realize how every second is precious. And 1819 years, it seems like a long time, but in kid years it flies by and there's no do overs.

Ryan Ottinger [00:10:08]:

So I'd rather my kids get tired of me and I spend too much time with them as the opposite of them just wanting somebody to be there for them and not be there. It does fly by. I think people told me that throughout my life. Treasure the time because it is fleeting and it truly is. And I will echo that until I can't echo it anymore. Now, you've talked about a lot of the positive things. What would you say has been the hardest part of being a father to a daughter? Being able to relate. As far as the struggles that teenage girls go through with my son, I understood for the most part this is a trying time for all teenagers and they have a lot of difficulties that a person my age never had to deal with, with social media and everything that goes along with that.

Ryan Ottinger [00:10:52]:

But I always had trouble relating. So what I always tried to do was just listen. Just let her come home from school and go off about this or go off about that and be compassionate. Sometimes I didn't give her the right answers and sometimes you have to give the wrong what they don't want to hear because that's reality. But I always just tried to listen and if I couldn't relate, just be a sounding board for. And 15 minutes later, after she calmed down a little bit, she was fine. She just needed to get it off of her chest. And I think that was what I tried to do.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:25]:

The best is just listen and be a listening device and not have to give an opinion on every single thing. Now, I mentioned at the beginning of the show that you have a blended family. You have two biological kids, you have three step kids. And talk about challenges of raising your own children, let alone bringing families together. That is challenging in itself. Talk to me about what, as a family, you had to do to be able to start to bring those families together. When you did come together, it wasn't easy. But I also think that nothing in life that's going to have a long term reward is easy, because if it is, it's not as rewarding.

Ryan Ottinger [00:12:06]:

Having said that, it's difficult when you go from a single dad with a three bedroom house. And then we moved in together, and together we have 220 year old boys. My daughter hayden and Kobe are 20. Kobe is my son. Kylie is my daughter. She is 18. And then Reed is the youngest boy, and he's a senior in high school. And Sloan is my stepdaughter, and she's in 8th grade.

Ryan Ottinger [00:12:32]:

So unfortunately, their father has passed away. So I've been around for about three, four years now. And so I really think it's important that I pass on and show my youngest stepdaughter the relationship that I have with my daughter. And that way she also has. And this kind of refers back to what I was talking about earlier. She knows what a good father son or father daughter relationship is. She sees a positive male role model. She sees how I treat her mom and how I expect others to treat her mom, and that's how I expect that anybody in her future would treat her.

Ryan Ottinger [00:13:13]:

But moving in together, it's never going to be super easy. But her kids are wonderful, and my wife Melissa is wonderful, and my kids love her, her kids love me. We go on vacations together. We spend tons of time. So, you know, moving is stressful, just if you move in a normal situation. But when you're blending families and dogs that never met each other and that kind of that whole thing, there were some growing pains. Everybody kind of had to find their groove. But I think that's the biggest thing is you let everybody kind of carve their path and then you know, okay, this person showers every night at this time, so I've got to figure that out.

Ryan Ottinger [00:13:52]:

This person does laundry. It's just life. Living together with anyone's not easy. You have to have cooperation. And we found a good balance, I feel like. And now when we moved in together, all five kids were in the house. And then a year from now, there's only going to be one left. So she's going to get all the attention.

Ryan Ottinger [00:14:09]:

Whether she wants it or not. She's going to be the focus of both of us. So talk to me about that relationship with Sloan and what you've had to do to be able to maybe say, slowly step into a role of mentorship, a role of friendship, a role of connection. And I say all of that before I say a role as a father, because I'm sure that you have probably in your mind and outwardly said, I am a father. I'm not trying to replace your father. But how did you have to start building those building blocks with her after that initial move in? It was a process, but it was easy. She's very different from a lot of teenagers. As far as she was open and willing to a relationship, there wasn't any resentment or apprehension on her part for me to be a part of her life, which made it all the easier, because then if you have apprehension and then you have to find the balance as a bonus.

Ryan Ottinger [00:15:14]:

Dad, do I try harder? Do I pull back? Grant, where do I fit in this role? Because I don't want to be overbearing and try to force a relationship. But I also don't want to seem aloof and to seem like I don't want a relationship. So what I always try to do is Kylie, my daughter, was always in my back pocket, so we were always together. So what we tried to do is include Sloan on a lot of the stuff that we were doing together. But then I also made sure that I had one on one time for Kylie and I had one on one time for Sloan. So I think that when you're able to carve out time just for one child, it's more meaningful experience. Maybe not for the parent, because I love being with all my kids, but for the child, it just seems more special. But it's been a slow.

Ryan Ottinger [00:15:59]:

You're putting brick on brick and you're getting a foundation. We're great friends. We've got a great relationship. I don't know about being a disciplinarian just because at this point in life, she doesn't really need it. She's just that girl. And my daughter was the same way. If I said something and made a suggestion, 99 times out of 100 they go with it and we go down that path together and if there's a disagreement, we work it out. So I'm very fortunate that way that she's bought in the same amount that I bought in.

Ryan Ottinger [00:16:28]:

And it's a great relationship. You talked about the fact that with your kids you have to build those unique relationships, especially in a blended family. You have built relationships with your two biological kids. You've had more time with them. Now you've had three new kids that have entered your life and have become a part of your family as a whole. Talk to me about how you have been able to build those unique relationships with each child. Seeing that each child is unique and understanding that you have to build that relationship in a little bit different way. Anyone that has more than one child at home knows that there's no cookie cutter, even if you have I have stepbrothers that are twins and they're not even remotely the same and they weren't ever growing up.

Ryan Ottinger [00:17:17]:

They both had vastly different interests. So I think it's finding out what they're interested in and they're passionate about and exploring know. My stepson and I, reed had a we talked politics for about an hour and a half. My wife finally just went to bed and we sat at the kitchen table and with no TV on, no phones or anything, and just talked. There was no arguments, no disagreements, and it was fantastic. Now, if I tried to do that with my son Kobe, eight minutes into that, he'd be like, can we turn the game on or something? This is not interesting to me. So I think know with Sloan, she's got a huge passion for volleyball and she just started playing in 6th grade and she couldn't hit the ball straight for a million dollars. And just seeing her out in the driveway, I would set up makeshift nets where we put outdoor benches on top of garbage cans for her and then put cones in the yard for target practice and stuff like that.

Ryan Ottinger [00:18:12]:

I never played volleyball in my life. My daughter did. So I had a few ideas. But finding out what they're passionate about and adjusting your priorities to allow them to pursue their passion, I think that's the most important thing is you can give them suggestions. You can give kids a path to go, but if they want to veer off that path, just find a positive outlet for them to veer because if not, it could turn into a negative. But you can't say, well, I've always liked this, so you should like this. That's not how I wasn't into the same things my parents were in. So I think that's the biggest thing is finding what they're passionate about.

Ryan Ottinger [00:18:47]:

And even if you got to fake it for a couple of hours and put a smile on your face, that time is going to be so precious. When you look back on it, you can be like, you know what? I was miserable when I went. And they'll get a laugh out of it. And I'm sure that she can turn around and say, yeah, that one thing you took me to. That wasn't great either, but I did enjoy being there. I think that's the most important thing. 

Christopher Lewis [00:19:13]:

Appreciate you sharing that. Now you and I got to meet each other through Twitter and using the hashtag Girl dad. It is definitely a hashtag that's been around for a bit. Many people know it started with Kobe Bryant and his daughter and kind of built from there and ended up continuing to grow from there. As you think about the hashtag girl dad, what does being a girl dad mean to you? 

Ryan Ottinger [00:20:29]:

Being proud of your daughter, being proud of the fact that she's a female and she is going down a path of she's going to be a leader in the community, she's going to be a leader in whatever job or whatever path of life that she chooses, and to know that she's a valuable member of society. And the challenges of raising a daughter are large for a male role model, but the rewards are equally as large. And when things work out, it is the greatest experience in the world. And not to take anything away from being a father-son relationship, because it's amazing. My son and I are best friends, but when you raise a daughter, you know that there's an expectation that you need to set as far as role models go. And with Kylie, she's exceeded the expectations of the person that I wanted her to. You know, on that tweet that I sent out that you responded to, I kept saying for a month, she wasn't ready to go to college. She just wasn't ready. She's naive. She should commute all the gamut of emotions. And we get there and we get her moved in. And I was giving her a hug and I saw her walk off. She was not walking off, she was prancing off and couldn't be more excited. I'm sitting in my truck crying like a baby and I'm like, okay, I'm the one that's not ready. She's ready. I've done my job, which it's the most bittersweet experience in the world. You always want your daughter to be happy, but then you know, for her to be happy, you're going to be sad for a while. And that was the most difficult part, but it was also the most fulfilling. 

Christopher Lewis [00:21:27]:

Yeah. Leaving your child at college is definitely challenging, especially if they're farther away. But even if they're close, the relationship changes. You don't get to see them as much, you don't get to talk to them as much because their life is moving in a little bit different direction. And parents are told that you don't get to see it or know it until you actually experience it. And that is something that every parent has to experience in life. Whether it's that your child is going to college, whether it's that they're going into the workforce or the military or whatever it is post high school, something happens and they will change in some way. And as parents, as Ryan just said, we have to do what we can as they're growing up, to prepare them to fly, prepare them to be able to leave our homes, to be able to do things that are going to help them to be successful and to move forward in their life. Now, Ryan, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Fatherhood Five, where I ask you five more questions to delve deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? 

Ryan Ottinger

Absolutely.

In one word, what is fatherhood

Ryan Ottinger

amazing?

Christopher Lewis 

When was the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

I would say the minute she graduated, she graduated with honors, and I really felt like I've done everything I could do to prepare her for the next step, whatever that step may be in life. And as a parent, that's what we're supposed to do.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:40]:

If I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

Ryan Ottinger

It depends on when you want to talk to them. I would say I can be tough on them when it comes to work ethic. I'm a big work ethic person in general, but I think that they would say, overall, I'm fun, and I think that they see the joy I get out of being a dad. I feel like that's the only thing I've ever wanted to do when I wanted to grow up, other than being in the NBA, which was quickly realized that that wasn't going to be an option. I always just wanted to be a dad, and I feel like that's what I was quite honestly put here to do, is to be a father and is the greatest job and experience I could ever have. But I think they would just say I'm a fun loving guy, and I hope that if they had to do it over again, they would still choose me.

Christopher Lewis [00:23:29]:

Now, who inspires you to be a better dad? I have a lot of people. My mom, for one.

Ryan Ottinger

For a long time in my life, my mom was kind of raising us on our own and my sister and I, and so she kind of had to do a dual role, but she just showed me what parenting should be. I look back now and I see the sacrifices that she made for my sister and I, and I've instilled that into my parenting style. Kids first, always. If that means missing a guy's trip or missing golf or whatever the case may be, no regrets about it, no second thoughts about it. And it wasn't even an option to not be present for my kids. My stepdad was a vital figure. My dad was a vital figure of just being present. They still come to all my kids sporting events, my niece and nephew's sporting events, and Christmases and every holiday. We're always together. Our families are always together. So that's the biggest thing that I think I would take away, is just always just try to keep your family. Anytime you have an opportunity to be with them, be with them.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:13]:

You've given a lot of pieces of advice today, things for people to think about and things for people to consider of incorporating into their own lives as we finish up today. What's one piece of advice you'd like to give to every dad? 

Ryan Ottinger [00:24:39]:

Enjoy every second. We touched on it earlier. It goes by so fast.And the memory I want to share about my daughter is I'll never forget one time I was in a hardware store and she went with me, and she was at the age where I just had given up on trying to tell her what to wear. As long as she had some sort of shoes on her feet and her hair was somewhat combed, I think she may have been five or six at the most. And so she had these cowgirl boots on with pajamas, and it was noon, and we're in a hardware store and she's three aisles over just stomping up the aisle and making all kinds of noise. And I'm just like, oh, my gosh. And this guy beside me goes, hey, she won't be stomping very much longer in those cowgirl boots. You better enjoy it while you can. And it's just a random stranger. And it stuck with me from that moment on because I started to get frustrated because she was running around and that frustration just went away. It's like, you know what? She's a little girl having the time of her life. I can't get in the way of that. And so from that point on, I really just tried to cherish every single second that I was with her, and I'm glad that I did.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:26]:

Well, Ryan, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today. Really appreciate it. And if people want to find you on Twitter, where's the best place for them to go at Ryan_Ottinger. Nothing real fancy on that one.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:48]:

Well, I truly appreciate you being here today, and I wish you all the best. Thank you so much. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And the Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on Fatherhood. Through our extensive course, library, interactive forum, step by step, roadmaps and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out fatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes.

Christopher Lewis [00:26:31]:

Today. Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week, all geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time we give, the lessons we make, the meals we buy them present. Bring your A game because those. Kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite glass calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them. You be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

In this episode of "Dads with Daughters," host Christopher Lewis welcomes guest Alexandra Wyman to discuss the challenging topic of suicide and how to navigate the aftermath. The episode focuses on providing support and resources for individuals dealing with the loss of a loved one to suicide.

Christopher introduces Alexandra Wyman, an advocate and public speaker who experienced the loss of her husband to suicide in August 2020. She shares her journey and the inspiration behind her book, "The Suicide Club: What to Do When Someone You Love Chooses Death."

Alexandra recounts her life before her husband's suicide, emphasizing societal expectations of a successful life and family. She details her personal journey of meeting her husband, getting married, and having a child, which led her to believe she had achieved a successful life.

However, four days before their second wedding anniversary, her husband took his life, leaving her in shock and disbelief. Alexandra discusses her initial struggles, including the lack of consistent support and the need to make immediate decisions. She explains that during the early stages of her grief, she began documenting her experiences, emotional states, and any helpful strategies she discovered.

The conversation transitions to addressing the guilt and self-blame that survivors of suicide often experience. Alexandra emphasizes that it's challenging to predict or prevent suicide, emphasizing the importance of spreading love and checking in on loved ones who may be struggling emotionally.

Christopher inquires about how to support individuals affected by suicide from an outsider's perspective. Alexandra recommends being present for them and offering specific help rather than asking them what they need. She also highlights the significance of ongoing support beyond the initial shock period when most people tend to withdraw.

They discuss the complexities of explaining suicide to children and how to approach age-appropriate conversations about the topic. Alexandra emphasizes the importance of honesty and using concrete language when discussing suicide with children.

Alexandra mentions various tools and coping strategies she has relied on during her grief journey. These include therapy, journaling, meditation, exercise, reaching out to friends, and seeking information from blogs and books on death and grief.

The episode concludes with Alexandra's message of hope and resilience, encouraging those who have experienced suicide loss to keep moving forward and find meaning and purpose in life. She underscores the importance of anchoring to something meaningful as a source of strength.

Christopher mentions the significance of the "988" suicide and crisis lifeline, urging anyone in need to reach out for help.

Alexandra provides her website, Forwardtojoy.com, as a valuable resource for additional support, coaching, and information about her book, "The Suicide Club."

The episode offers valuable insights, resources, and guidance for individuals dealing with suicide loss, as well as those seeking to support loved ones through this difficult journey.

If you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads With Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most are figuring it out as they go along. The Fatherhood Insider is full of valuable resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step-by-step roadmaps, and more you will engage and learn with experts but more importantly with dads like you. So check it out today!

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:

Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight Dads resources and more to help you be the best dad you can be. Hey, everyone, this is Chris, and welcome to Dads with Daughters, where we bring you guests to help you be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. As you know, every week we are chatting together about how you can raise amazing daughters in your lives to help them be strong, independent women. And every week I love being able to chat with you about the journey that you're on and help you to learn from others. This week we've got a really great guest with us and I'm so excited that she was willing to join us today. We're going to be talking about a topic that is a little bit tougher. We're going to be talking about suicide and coming out on the other side of suicide.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:02]:

But it's important. It's an important topic and it's hopefully a topic that you may not have to deal with in your life, but it's important to understand what to do in these situations. So our guest today is Alexandra Wyman, and she is an advocate and public speaker for resources in the aftermath of suicide. After she lost her husband to suicide in August of 2020, she found a need to change the language around suicide and decided to write about it. She wrote a memoir called The Suicide Club. What to Do When Someone You love Chooses death. And you can find it on Amazon. I'm going to put a link in the notes today for you to be able to find that.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:46]:

She's spoken at many conferences about this and really worked to try to help others to understand this. So I'm really excited to be able to talk to her today, to be able to learn from her and have you learn from her and the journey that she's been on. Alexandra, thanks so much for being here today.

Alexandra Wyman [00:02:04]:

Oh, Chris, thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure to be able to speak with you today.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:09]:

It is my pleasure having you here today. And I guess let's start at the beginning because this as I said, it's not an easy topic to talk about. But talk to me about what led you to this book and the situation that ended up bringing you to being the person that you are now and talking to people and helping people through suicide.

Alexandra Wyman [00:02:33]:

Yeah, well, yeah, that's kind of a loaded intro there. I don't want to take up too much of your time on that, but I'll start with that. Coming out of college, I kind of bought into that idea with a successful life being. You meet a partner, you get married, you find your house, your white picket fence, you get your 2.5 children, your 1.5 dogs, you know the deal. And you get into a career, you stay there forever and then you retire, go travel, and then watch your kids and grandkids grow. That is so not how things went for me. So getting out of college, I just wasn't sure what I wanted to do. Had studied pre law, decided that wasn't the direction that was right for me.

Alexandra Wyman [00:03:12]:

Traveled a bit, did not have a partner house nor children, and then just continued on. Eventually did get my master's in occupational therapy and was getting pretty comfortable in the single life in my 30s when I met Sean. And it was happenstance I had sworn off, I was like, I'm over this. I'm not doing this anymore. And of course, that's always when the person comes into your life. And we had a very strong connection, just really hit it off. And being a little bit older, decided we didn't want to mess with all the niceties. Sometimes that comes with dating and getting to know each other.

Alexandra Wyman [00:03:47]:

So within about a year after meeting each other, we got married, bought that house, and found out that I was pregnant. And finally I thought oh, okay. It took me a little bit longer than other people I know, but let me check off that list of what this successful life looks like. And both of us were in our successful careers, and life looked great. And nothing is ever perfect, let me say that. There's nothing perfect about our marriage or our relationship. Like, there isn't really in any relationship. And then four days before our second wedding anniversary, sean ended up taking his life.

Alexandra Wyman [00:04:20]:

And talk about rug being pulled out from underneath you and looking at this going, Wait, I thought I got there right? I got to the successful life. What do you mean now he's dead. This is not how things are supposed to go. And then in addition to that, so not only is there massive grief, our son was just over one when Sean passed. And then there's some complications with trauma and additional drama from other individuals involved in the situation and trying to sort through all of that. And I kept finding that even initially, within even that first four to six weeks, where I just was like, what are the tools I can use for this? And I found that it's very inconsistent, the support that's available to individuals and survivors. And so in my particular personal situation, I was told there'd be an advocate from the county who would come and support me. And I had one conversation with that person and never heard again from the county.

Alexandra Wyman [00:05:11]:

So there's so much that has to happen. And often we say, don't make any decisions in that first year, and you have to make decisions immediately. Like day zero, I had to make decisions. So I started jotting down notes of things that I found helpful or didn't find helpful or ways that things that I was experiencing, such as cognitive overload or not being able to really function past a certain time or even eating. I started jotting notes over, I was able to eat today, I wasn't able to eat yesterday. And then I figured out that what I essentially wanted to end up doing was help someone else. So that whatever path I had to forge on my own because there wasn't as much support that someone else wouldn't have to go through that even three weeks after Sean passed, I got a phone call saying, so a friend's husband just died by suicide. Can you reach out to them and be a it doesn't stop.

Alexandra Wyman [00:06:00]:

Even though I hoped it would have stopped with Sean's passing, it didn't. And so people are passing this way still frequently. And so I decided that maybe if I could write a book or give tips and tricks of what I found worked for me, that maybe it would help someone else along the way. And so that's how the inception of the book came. Really didn't think I would ever publish it. And then it all just kind of fell into place. And here we are now being able to really talk and hopefully empower and encourage other people to have conversations and start talking more about this. Because as much as I'd like this type of death to go away, it isn't.

Christopher Lewis [00:06:34]:

One of the things that comes to mind before we get into some of the tips and tricks post suicide is, I guess, after this happened to you in your life, I'm sure there's a lot of questioning, there's a lot of things that probably go through your head of what should I have seen? Or were there things I could have seen that could have helped along the way? And I'm sure that there have been many people that have asked you questions that you've supported along the way and probably asked those same questions. What do you say to those individuals as they go through that questioning process?

Alexandra Wyman [00:07:09]:

It's so complicated because on the one hand, absolutely you're going to run through the scenarios. What could you have done differently? How could you have been a different support? Was there something I still go through that? Was there something I could have done the day of? I knew ahead of time what was happening and spent a considerable amount of time trying to access Sean before he passed. So there's so many different scenarios that you can run through and do that. And so there's a few different ways I look at this. One of the ways that I'll say is there aren't really obvious signs that someone is going to pass this way. As much as that would be very comforting and provide some safety and security, that our loved ones aren't going to go through something like this. There just isn't. That doesn't mean that if people are hurting that you can't reach out or check on them or ask them directly, are you thinking of harming yourself or being able to have tools to help, not confront, but help someone who you think is struggling.

Alexandra Wyman [00:08:08]:

Sean did have his own struggles and stress that were going on and I just took ask. I won't say I didn't ask the right questions. I think I just didn't provide enough of an avenue for him to feel more comfortable talking to me as he got to that point. And to be honest, I don't think there's any right or wrong way to do can't. I've had to work through holding on to the guilt around that. So it's easy to take on the responsibility that someone getting to this point, that it was any of us involved around Sean, that it was our responsibility to, quote, save him. The other thing I'll say is when it comes to questions around that, of thinking back on what we could have done differently or how to approach people, I'm just a big proponent now of just spread the love. Just tell everyone that you love them or how much they mean to you and really see people for who they are.

Alexandra Wyman [00:08:58]:

And I think that is a missing link that sometimes we just miss in general. So often it's almost as though we understand that someone is hurting when they've been hurting for quite a bit of time and just haven't known and then something like this can happen. So those are kind of like the first two ways that I go about it and when I'm asked or if I'm talking to someone about it. Shifting the death away from ourselves to the individual is one of the things that I recommend only because it is easy to take responsibility for someone else's actions and it is easy to wonder again what could we have done? You can always do something differently, but to what extent is it your responsibility to have done something differently? And the truth is, for my situation, I could have done something completely different in all the different scenarios and the outcome still could have been the same. And that's still hard to kind of wrap your head around. But when I was able to start shifting Sean's death away from it was something that happened to me and more to this person was in this much pain that this was what they ended up finding was their way to end their pain. For me, it created a bigger opportunity for compassion because it's not easy to get to that point and to have that immense amount of emotional and mental pain or physical pain. Whatever is going on, in my opinion, there's pain.

Alexandra Wyman [00:10:19]:

And an individual who gets to a point of contemplating suicide is that that's what they're seeing is the only way to end it at that point in time.

Christopher Lewis [00:10:26]:

So as you talked a lot right there about things that you had to do to be able to get through this. And I guess one question that comes to my mind is from an outsider perspective, when someone you know is going through this, not that person that has committed suicide, but the person that has been affected or the family that has been affected. From an outsider perspective, what are some things that others can do to best support those that have been primarily impacted? Not to say that everyone in that circle and the concentric circles are not being impacted in some way, but to offer that support, to be able to be there. Because like I said at the beginning, it's not an easy thing to talk about.

Alexandra Wyman [00:11:15]:

Very true. And that's such a hard question because I do think it's individualized. However, at the same time, I think what often happens is when we see someone who's hurting, we often look to that person to almost bring us comfort. So in my situation, I can say people are like, what can we do for you? How can we help? And it's this idea of, we can't fix it. We're watching someone hurt. And it's unbearable to watch someone in so much pain. And oftentimes what I need, you can't give me. I need him to walk through the door.

Alexandra Wyman [00:11:45]:

You can't do that for me. What I did find was helpful was when people would just reach out and say, I'm here for you when you're ready. And rather than leave it up to me to say, what do you need? I had people who are like, I'm going to bring you some food. I'm going to pick up your son and we're going to go. I'm going to offer babysitting for you. Just having that opportunity or that offer was very helpful. There are sometimes people are like, I'm coming over just to see how you're doing. That I found more helpful because in those moments of stress, it's so hard to make decisions, right? You're already making decisions, but you're still in shock.

Alexandra Wyman [00:12:18]:

There's so much that's going on emotionally and mentally and just trying to wrap your head around everything that is going on at once. And as I mentioned, my situation was not unique in the additional stuff that was going on and threats of legal action and having to figure out where we were going to live. I mean, all of these things that come up. And so just being there and also patient because I find and just like any type of loss or death, actually people are available in those first two to three weeks. What can we do? We're here for you. And then as the dust settles, most people go back to their lives. For me, it was the people who were still hanging around checking in on me after that who I found once I was out of my shock and actually had to start living again or trying to figure out how to live while also dealing with this massive amount of grief. Those people who would check in on me at that point in time were extremely helpful.

Alexandra Wyman [00:13:10]:

Again, just saying we're here for you was a good reminder to me of, oh, I can go ask for help. It's still hard to do, but to go ask for help and to reach out to those people and that's what I would say is it's almost like just being present for the individual and letting them know that you're there when they can handle having that relationship or figure out what exactly they need.

Christopher Lewis [00:13:33]:

So earlier you said that when this all happened with your husband that your son was one and that's pretty young and not everybody is going to have a young child. So your situation is probably going to be different than other situations as you've talked to others and worked through this with your own child and are probably still working through this with your own child. What are some of the things that you've learned about how best to talk to a child about this, whether it is their parent, a grandparent, or other family member or friend? What are some of the best ways in which you can help a child to work through this?

Alexandra Wyman [00:14:16]:

This is a great question and definitely still something I'm learning. My son asked about his dad about six months earlier than I was expecting. That was a nice Sunday morning and I went, okay, we're going to do this now. So from everything that I've heard read and also found in my own therapy is honesty really is the best policy. If we leave up too much and concrete honesty, that's age appropriate. If we leave too much ambiguity in what we're saying to the child, they're going to fill in the gaps. And I will say that I thought with my son that I was being really honest and concrete and have found I wasn't. So when I initially had the conversation with him, he was three and a half, and I said, Daddy chose to die.

Alexandra Wyman [00:15:01]:

He was in a lot of pain and didn't know how to ask for help. And a big thing that came up for me with this was I wanted to make sure that I was communicating to my son that if he was in pain to ask for help. And also to say if you scrape your knee and it hurts, you're not going to die. Pain does not equal death. So I tried to do that and thought I was very concrete and then actually have been working with a play therapist with my son to help with this process as well and have done some group therapy myself. And essentially what happens is they fill in that gap of, well, where's this body, where's this person? And so saying daddy did something to his body to make it stop working. And that's again, using age appropriate language. My son is four now, so still along that.

Alexandra Wyman [00:15:52]:

But there are different ways to kind of scaffold what that language would be depending on the age. But I've had a friend who didn't initially give her kids the honest answer and she said it was far worse than when she was actually able to sit down and tell them the truth. And even I've been coached that even for four, using the word suicide is okay because it gives them a word for what happened. Again, that concrete perspective. So I think being able to say Daddy died by suicide, which means he did something to his body to make it stop working, which I love that I'm able to say it now because I still haven't been able to say it to my son yet. I get a little of a clemped and then I'm like, oh gosh, I can do this. And he still asks, but with the support of other people. That's kind of the direction that I've heard, but definitely going with that level of honesty as early as you can.

Christopher Lewis [00:16:40]:

So what I'm hearing from you in this journey, and I'm going to use that word, this journey that you have been on since you lost your husband, your husband took his life, and you've had to move into what is your new normal. And I'm sure that's still evolving and it will continue to evolve. Talk to me about some of the things that you have had to and ended up putting in your book in regards to some of the tools, the strategies, the resources that you've had to rely upon that others should know about or should help and provide and to support others.

Alexandra Wyman [00:17:18]:

So tools change daily. I just want to start there because sometimes I don't know for your listeners, but I know for myself that I will pick a tool and I'm like, awesome, I found the magic thing that's going to make everything feel better. I'm going to use this every day and then I get to the next day and go, oh no, that doesn't work. So I'm a big fan of having a toolbox and finding which tool work on which day, and there's been lots of them. Therapy is definitely one that has helped with a grief specific therapist. I think that helps only because grief is so random and such a roller coaster that even now approaching three years where I'm like, okay, good, I'm great, I'm having a great day. And then I'll still get hit with something and go, oh, right, okay, I'm not where I thought I would be. And you were right earlier.

Alexandra Wyman [00:18:08]:

This is a journey and it's a lifetime journey. It just changes and morphs and certain things. I could maybe go a couple of years and feel great and then another year something will hit me harder. So it is very up and down. I have used so therapy, journaling, meditation, definitely screaming, done my own scream therapy. I have exercised, although initially I was encouraged very early on to exercise and I became like a child myself and told the doctor, you go exercise right now. It's hard for me to even get out of bed. But it is true.

Alexandra Wyman [00:18:43]:

It is helpful, even if it's just a short, slow walk. I have relied on friends to even talk through things to see. I've looked at blogs, researched all sorts of parenting books to figure out how to do this as a single parent. So there are lots of different ways to go about this. I think the main thing is to try certain things and definitely work through whatever is going on in front of you. Skirting around it, ignoring the grief or the emotions doesn't help at all. And in fact, all it does is kind of prolong that process. And it's horrible.

Alexandra Wyman [00:19:19]:

It's a horrible process. It's extremely hard, but it's very rewarding once you get to the other side. Oh, I even consulted a medium. Where am I going? I started reading all sorts of books on death. What happens in different cultures and how different people view death. I went down a whole rabbit hole on that. So I'd say quite the gamut of tools for the emotional piece. There's definitely some other things for kind of the business.

Alexandra Wyman [00:19:43]:

I don't know if you want me to go into some of the business stuff, but there is a lot to have to manage. But I think just take that first step forward of trying something is the.

Christopher Lewis [00:19:53]:

Most important for someone that is picking up your book and they are looking for some answers and wanting to get those resources that you've been able to capture and be able to identify for yourself. What are some of the biggest takeaways that you're hoping that people are going to take from the book itself?

Alexandra Wyman [00:20:12]:

Probably the biggest takeaway is that you can get through this. I had someone say that to me. It was actually one of the sheriff's officers who had to inform me that Sean had passed and she had lost her husband by suicide eight months prior. And she said, you're not going to believe me, but you can get through this. And she was right. I did not believe her. But it is possible. Taking 1ft in front of the other, finding something to anchor to, to help you on those days where it's ridiculously hard and you don't want to live, that does happen.

Alexandra Wyman [00:20:44]:

But finding something to anchor to that keeps you here, because when you can get through the sludge is what I call it. When you can get through those horrible feelings, when you can start to let your mind and body start to heal, it is worth it and you can find joy that's left in this life. It looks different. I'll say that how I view things now in life is very different than before. But it is possible to do that.

Christopher Lewis [00:21:08]:

Talk to me about that anchor, because I'm sure that you have to retether every so often and it may be even be on a daily basis. So what do you have to do to re anchor yourself now that you've gone through this? It's three years later, and you are looking toward the future.

Alexandra Wyman [00:21:25]:

Yeah. So initially, I'd say my anchor was my son. Very early on, I was aware that while I knew this situation was going to impact us, I didn't want it to dictate things for us. And I wanted to make sure that while I could talk to him about his dad, I didn't want his dad's death to just be hanging over him or over me. To the point where if I couldn't continue to move forward, how that would impact him and the anchor does change in a sense of now I can look and find a different meaning and purpose. My life was going in a very different trajectory before Sean died and realizing how it's different now and then finding meaning and purpose in that. And so while my son was able to help me work know that initial shock and get through those and he still is my anchor for sure. Finding that meaning and purpose of how I want to take the aftermath and my experience in this journey and be able to pay it forward and help other people has now become my anchor that's now become how I keep putting 1ft in front of the other.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:27]:

Well, Alexandra, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story, for sharing what you've gone through and for helping others that have gone through similar situations or may go through similar situations. Because this is kind of as I said at the beginning, it's a topic that it's taboo in society. It's hard to talk about, but it's important to talk about and to confront and to ask. I mean, I've gone through training at work, and we've talked about suicide and suicide prevention. And one of the interesting things is something that you said at the very beginning was the fact that if you truly think that someone is going to harm themselves, you need to ask that question. You need to say, Are you planning on harming yourself? And it's not something that you typically would go to a person and say, but it is so important. Are there other pieces that you want to leave for anyone to think about if they're concerned about someone, if they're concerned for themselves, that you would leave today?

Alexandra Wyman [00:23:31]:

Yeah, it's such a good question. I would say if you are someone who is hurting and feeling that this is potentially a way to end that pain, you're not broken, you're not defective, and there is some hope and help for you. And if you can take that step to actually reach out and just let someone know you need help to be seen, absolutely. I see you. Chris sees you. We're here to see you and to see that pain. You're definitely more than that pain. And for other individuals who are worried about their loved ones.

Alexandra Wyman [00:24:07]:

Like you said, Chris, ask the question. Shower them with love and see your person again for who they are and to tell them that you care about them, that you're there. And again, no matter the outcome. It's not our individual responsibility, because we all have that choice. But to just show someone that you genuinely care and are there for them is what I would say.

Christopher Lewis [00:24:28]:

And one of the resources that I will share with you is something that any of you should be able to access in your own area. And that's nine eight eight. Keep that number in mind. We have 911, but now you have 988, which is the suicide and crisis lifeline, and it is open 24 hours a day. They have multiple languages. And if you are hurting, as Alexandra said, if you feel like you need to reach out, have a lifeline, dial nine eight eight. Talk to someone, they will talk to you, they will work with you and they'll help you through it. And that is such an important resource that has not been there very long, but it is now available throughout the United States, and it is something that I would highly encourage any person to take advantage of.

Alexandra Wyman [00:25:16]:

Absolutely. Yes, please do, Alexandra.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:19]:

If people want to find out more about you about the book, where should they go?

Alexandra Wyman [00:25:22]:

So my website is Forwardtojoy.com, all spelled out. You can email me at alexandra@forwardtojoy.com. I'm on Instagram at Forwardtojoy. But definitely there are also additional resources on my website for any individual who's in this aftermath of trying to handle some of the business with the estate. There's also one on one coaching that I offer for going through this process. So definitely check out the website. That'd probably be the best way. And the book is on Amazon and on a couple of different websites as.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:51]:

Well, and I will put a link in there. It is forwardtojoy.com. As Alexandra just said, I love the quote that's on there. Life is unpredictable as a notion. What is predictable is how we handle what life hands us. And I think that is such an important thing to think about and to think about for your own self and how that impacts you and your family, because it is so true. Alexander, thanks so much for being here. I truly appreciate you sharing your journey, and I wish you all the best.

Alexandra Wyman [00:26:23]:

Thanks so much.

Christopher Lewis [00:26:23]:

Chris if you've enjoyed today's episode of the Dads with Daughters podcast, we invite you to check out The Fatherhood Insider. The Fatherhood Insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be. We know that no child comes with an instruction manual, and most dads are figuring it out as they go along. And The Fatherhood Insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on Fatherhood through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step. By step, roadmaps and more. You will engage and learn with experts but more importantly, dads like you. So check it out@fatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the Dads with Daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes.

Christopher Lewis [00:27:09]:

Today Dads with Daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week. All geared to helping you raise strong, empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be. We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them present and bring your A game because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite glass calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the one to now be the best dad you can be be the best dad you can be.