Fantasy+Girls Podcast

Em and EJ get their act together long enough to rehash the best stories they consumed in books and screen over the past year. Stay tuned for a deep dive into Bunny, Saltburn, Poor Things, among others, and a BIG ANNOUNCEMENT from Em about what to look forward to in 2024. 

As we wrap up the summer, E. J. and Emma have completed their summer reading and are ready to report back. Emma assigned E. J. to read Bunny by Mona Awad, a speculative/horror cult favorite with shocking twists and a lot of takes. Bunny, we have a lot to talk about. Egregious spoilers ahead. 

FANTASY+GIRL is going back to school with a series dedicated to the nostalgia of summer reading assignments! For the series, Emma C. Wells and EJ Wenstrom will be challenging each other with SFF books to read, and then come back to discuss.

Keep going--Emma and EJ have already announced what they're challenging each other to read first: 

Tune and and read along to join the discussion in the next episodes:

• What EJ is Assignging Emma to Read
• What Emma is Assignment EJ to Read

FANTASY+GIRL Podcast is back with a new series celebrating summer reading! Emma and EJ are
choosing a book for the other to read. The duo will then lead a deep dive into the chosen stories on the podcast! Which book did Emma choose for EJ?

BUNNY by Mona Awad. Emma chose this book hoping to appeal to EJ’s love of weird—but well
written—speculative fiction. EJ loves Catherine House and Her Fearful Symmetry—and Emma thinks
Bunny fits nicely with those titles (even if it is a bit weirder…possibly even darker?). The story has dark academia vibes with a dose of Mean Girls…but with magic and monsters. Sort of…

How can you join the fun? Easy! Read Bunny, and let the Emma and EJ know what you think!

You can comment on their social media or email them at fantasygirlpodcast@gmail.com

Bunny, we can’t wait to hear from you!

FANTASY+GIRL is going back to school with a series dedicated to the nostalgia of summer reading assignments! For the series, Emma C. Wells and E. J. Wenstrom will be challenging each other with SFF books to read, and then come back to discuss. Here, E. J. reveals what she's challenging Emma to read first, and why.

EJ is assigning Emma to read HOW TO LIVE SAVELY IN A SCIENCE FICTIONAL UNIVERSE by Charles Yu.

EJ has been a Charles Yu fan for years and this was the novel that started the obsession. This story starts with a time travel repairman stuck in a mutliverse full of tropey playfulness that any science fiction fan is going to get a kick out of, but underneath it, this is a story about a man trying to untangle the mess left behind when his father mysteriously disappeared, and what that means for himself and his mother left behind.

(Hint: EJ loves audiobooks but says to read this one in print because of the mathematical formulas and creative use of space on the page)

How can you join the fun? Easy! Read How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe and let the Emma and EJ know what you think!

You can comment on their social media or email them at fantasygirlpodcast@gmail.com

In which we ramble on about random things we like and a few things we don’t. 

NOTE: FANTASY+GIRLS stands with the HarperCollins union.

• Wow! It’s been an entire year since Emma and EJ hosted their last episode of SFF Girls. Last we saw our heroes, they were in a cabin in the Georgia mountains, drinking and making s’mores.
• Em plugs TikTok bc why not?
• It has been a good year for speculative fiction—but especially horror. 2021 was the year for Rom-Coms—but 2022 is all about the horror (and okay—rom-coms still reign supreme…but horror is having a moment!)
• Em shares how she went on sub in 2020 with a dark book, and it didn’t do well because no one was in the headspace to deal with a really dark book—but now it seems readers (and editors) have come back to the dark side.
• EJ talks about films like BARBARIAN, THE MENU, and NOPE. 
• Female cannibal stories are also having a moment. Em talks about the cannibal to smutty smut pipeline. 
• Em read WE WERE EARTHLINGS. Em suggests checking the trigger warnings before beginning this book. 
• The second book was BONES AND ALL—the book came out in 2015, and the movie was released recently. BONES AND ALL is a warm, coming of age story—except she eats people she cares about. Again, check the trigger warnings.
• Next up was TENDER IS THE FLESH. Holy crap. This book broke Em. 
• Em says the ending of the book is bad—but not BAD as in not good. Bad as in everything. Devastating.
• Next up for Em was A CERTAIN HUNGER—but after TENDER IS THE FLESH, she had to take a break from dark books, and this is how she discovered Ruby Dixon and alien corn. 
• EJ read and liked the book MANHUNT by Gretchen Felker-Martin.
• MANHUNT is a futuristic dystopian where there are no men. 
• The book centers on trans characters who are attempting to navigate this post-apocalyptic world that is being ransacked by an army of TERFs who are trying to reorganize society.
• Em asked EJ what horror movies she watched in 2022 that made her stand up and take notice.
• EJ segways into mentioning the amount of really good content that came out in 2022 and how it was almost too much—talk about decision paralysis. 
• EJ points out how she is over big franchises—simply because of the sheer amount of content. She says the exception is WANDAVISION. 
• Em asks if she has seen DOCTOR STRANGE and says that Marvel did Wanda very dirty in that movie.
• Em asks EJ if she watched HOUSE OF DRAGONS. EJ hasn’t and Em says she believes it is worth sticking out the slow first couple of episodes because it gets good…but adds that EJ could probably just wait for next season.
• Em points out that Matt Smith is in HOUSE OF DRAGONS—and Em was a huge Doctor Who fan, so it was fun to see him in this completely different role.
• EJ points out that there was a big announcement in the DOCTOR WHO universe. The next Doctor was announced and will be Ncuti Gatwa—who will be the first Doctor Who of color.
• EJ asked Em if she is still following Doctor Who and Em explains how she hasn’t watched as much as she usually does. She wanted to really like Jodi Whitaker—the first female Doctor Who—but felt the writers did the character dirty and couldn’t sink into any of the story lines.
• Of course, we must talk about WEDNESDAY. Em is still watching—but EJ devoured the entire series. Jenna Ortega is perfect as the titular character.
• EJ and Em make plans to unpack the series once Em finishes the show. EJ isn’t 100% with how the story arc wraps up.
• We must talk about STRANGER THINGS. EJ points out that it ended on a cliffhanger—and Em says she didn’t remember that. Em thinks that EJ missed the release of the second half. However, since this episode wrapped—Em has concluded that EJ is correct.
• Em keeps calling Vecna, Vecnal. Oops.
• Em really is just inventing STRANGER THINGS facts at this point. 
• Here is a link to an article that summarizes what EJ and Em are discussing and gives detailed information in case, like Em, you are a bit foggy on the subject: How Many Kids Were In Hawkins Lab (& How Many Are Dead?) (screenrant.com)
• STOP SAYING VECNAL. Lol.
• Em brings the conversation back to horror in 2022. She follows a Big Five editor on Tik Tok who does publishing question and answers. One of the questions was, why have so many witch books come out recently.
• The editor (on TikTok as @bhvide) speculates that the books that are coming out now were written by authors who got their first spark of an idea for the stories years ago during the women’s march. Witches have long been a symbol of women’s pain and rage and one of the slogans chanted during the march was something like, “We are the granddaughters of the witches you couldn’t burn.” 
• Em asks EJ about her witch novel. EJ worries that she is missing her moment, since her novel is not yet out. Em says that she doesn’t think EJ has anything to worry about—witches aren’t going anywhere. 
• EJ asks Em if she watched OUTER RANGE on Amazon.
• OUTER RANGE science fiction with a Western motif. 
• EJ explains the general concept of the story. 
• Segway into WESTWORLD and then THE TIME TRAVELER’S WIFE.
• PAPER GIRLS got an Amazon adaptation. EJ has loved the comic for a long time and says that the Amazon adaptation is spot on. Sadly, it is already cancelled.
• Segway to SFF books. 
• EJ read BOOK OF NIGHT by Holly Black. Em is in the middle of it right now!
• Speaking of Holly Black, EJ saw her and got her book signed and the National Book Festival. 
• WHAT BIG TEETH by Rose Szabo came out in 2022. Em points out that it has an Addam’s Family vibe. 
• It reminds EJ of WE HAVE ALWAYS LIVED IN THE CASTLE by Shirley Jackson.
• Em brings up the book BUNNY—which is one of the strangest books she read in 2022. EJ says it sounds right up her alley (Em agrees).
• EJ and Em talk about their TBR which includes books such as:
• JUST LIKE HOME by Sarah Gailey
• THE DAUGHTER OF DOCTOR MOREAU by Silvia Moreno-Garcia
• EVEN THOUGH I KNEW THE END by C.L. Polk
• In 2022, Sabaa Tahir, who has written in the fantasy genre, won the National Book Award for her contemporary novel, ALL MY RAGE. She is the first Muslim woman to win the award.
• This episode wraps with a tangent about Book-Tok (bookish tik tok) and how authors should give it a try.
• Another quick trip to movies including THOR: LOVE AND THUNDER.
• A brief recap of THE BOYS. 
• And finally—the space opera, western noir: COWBOY BEBOP. 
• 2022: The year of SO MUCH content. 

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Welcome to the Star Crossed Lovers episode. EJ researched to find out what *really* qualifies as star-crossed-lovers and Em just winged it (which is pretty obvious because at least one of her picks barely counts). The phrase comes directly from Shakespeare and the ladies discuss the classic trope—which brings EJ to her first pick for the podcast: SAGA. 

Saga is a loose interpretation of Romeo and Juliet set in the realm of a futuristic space opera. This comic is one of EJ’s favorites.

Em’s first contribution is dark and sad (perfect for a Valentine’s Day special, no?). Her pick is the movie NEVER LET ME GO. The movie is based on Kazuo Ishiguro's bestselling, Booker Prize short listed novel with the same name. Em hasn’t watched in a while and thinks it warrants a rewatch. She had no idea what she was getting into the first time. Listener, you won’t either!

EJ and Em muse how this year’s picks are so much darker, even though Em’s pick last year *was* a BLACK MIRROR episode (San Junipero).

EJ’s next pick is the THREE DARK CROWNS series by Kendra Blake. This YA fantasy novel focuses on triplet Princess’s who are to be the next generation of Queens. HOWEVER they don’t all become Queen. In fact, they don’t all get to live. They spend their lives studying magic to prepare for a deathly duel. There is a lusty, dark relationship that can go nowhere good. Except, listener, it is so so so good. Check it out! 

Em chats about how, while researching, several movies from childhood came up. A few titles that kept popping up were Enemy Mine (who doesn’t love a good self-reproducing, bipedal, reptilian-humanoid?) and EDWARD SCISSORHANDS.

Em’s next real pick is SONG OF ACHILLES (bc of course it is). Em is obsessed with Madeline Miller’s take on this myth, which is evidenced by the long, long explanation she gives.

EJ mentions THE NIGHT CIRCUS. Marco and Celia *are* the definition of star-crossed-lovers. Em has a hot take that may not be super popular about Marco, but the hosts agree that the book is beautiful and one of the best written pieces of literature they’ve read.

A title that EJ kept coming across was WUTHERING HEIGHTS. EJ vehemently disagrees that Heathcliff and Kathy are star-crossed. They are simply terrible people. This is the twisted book of Em’s heart. Em would love to do a modern retelling but there is no way—these characters are so toxic. If a better writer does it—she’d love to read it (hint hint). Around the 23 minute mark, Em gives a very long, rough retelling of the story and pretty much ruins it—but she can’t help it. She loves it. (Correction: Em says that Heathcliff marries and that isn’t true. He impregnates a woman and refuses to marry her thus ruining her in society in the book.)

Em’s next pick is (surprise surprise) DOCTOR WHO: River Song and The Doctor. Everyone’s favorite Time Lord and River Song are in love—but they have different timeline’s as they travel through time and space. What are lovers coming from different timey-wimey directions to do? Keep a journal and don’t give spoilers, of course! This is Em’s favorite story arc. The story begins in Silence at the Library (which is an episode with Doctor 10).

EJ is reminded of THE TIME TRAVELER'S WIFE. (Correction: Em says that this is her friend Rhonda's absolute favorite book, but that may not be true). The women discuss how involuntary and compulsory time travel creates star-crossed-lovers.

EJ’s next pic is LEGEND by Marie Lu. This book is YA Sci-fi at its best. The book features the haves and the have-nots. June is a prodigy whose entire life goal is to catch this most-wanted criminal who is seen as uncatchable. Day…is that criminal. They fall in love without realizing who it is they are falling for. 

Em’s final pick is THE REINCARNATION BLUES by Michael Poore. In this book, Milo, is trying to live a life worth reincarnating to the next level of existence. Every time he dies, he meets death (literally meets them). Spoiler: They fall in love. What can you do when the person you love is death?

EJ’s number one pick is none other than THE HUNGER GAMES. Does it even get more star-crossed than Katniss and Peta? You tell us!

Shop the list of recommendations from this miniseries at BookShop.org

Not Your Scream Queen

Episode 2: HE LOVES ME HE LOVES ME NOT

• We are back with our mini series featuring women in horror aptly titled NOT YOUR SCREAM QUEEN..
• Your two ADHD diagnosed hosts agree that this is the most focused mini-series they’ve accomplished yet, and they are feeling pretty proud of it. Of course that might be because the “work” involved has been a delight! 
• Em has loved the research for this series. Watching horror movies? Who wouldn’t love it?
• Em doesn’t typically take a deep dive into horror—she takes them at face value. This exercise has made her think about them a little differently.
• In college, EJ took a class where she’d actually have a “lab” that was watching a film, and then the class would be dissecting and discussing the movie. Pretty awesome.
• The women discuss how there is a literary equivalent in some films and EJ suggest (rightfully) that we have reached a point as a society where we should discuss films and their artistic merit the same way we discuss novels.
• Em admits her absolute love of movies. All movies. Artistic and terrible—her early video store days left a huge impression on her. 
• They jump right into today’s episode: He Loves Me He Loves Me Not.
• EJ first watched HE LOVES ME HE LOVES ME NOT during her college days, around the early 2000s.
• EJ was wandering the aisles of Block Buster with college friends. They were looking for something to new to watch and had liked Amalie. The friend group recognized the leading actress from Amalie and decided to give this one a shot…they had no idea what they were getting in to.
• The geeks give a run-down of the plot of He Loves Me He Loves Me Not.
• The movie is split in two parts: HER point of view and HIS point of view. EJ and Em dissect how this works in the film.
• Emily is so enthusiastic that she basically interrupts EJ every five minutes (lol). She has no regrets. :P 
• They discuss Erotomania—a real diagnosable mental illness that inspired this movie. It is a rare diagnosis.
• EJ discusses problematic tropes that this movie brings to mind. 
• EJ compares the film to the show Crazy Ex Girlfriend and how it calls out common, problematic tropes.
• The medical student that is in love with Angelique during the entire movie has his own problems. EJ and Em chat about how he thought it was fully okay to steal a human heart for Angelique. What?!?
• They discuss why the mental illness aspect of the movie didn’t feel wrong.
• What would happen if the movie was gender flipped? 
• Is this movie a horror flick or a Psychological Thriller? EJ thinks that it is nudged into the horror category because of the human heart and the creepy murals. They agree that the movie definitely walks the line between the two.
• The consensus is that you could be COMPLETELY fooled into thinking this is a rom com from the opening scene.
• The movie is not without its problems—it is twenty years old—but EJ and Em agree that it is entertaining and they’d suggest to friends. 
• EJ finished Little Fires Everywhere by Celeste Ng and enjoyed it, and is now beginning the Hulu show. She thinks it is a pretty solid read and show adaptation (so far).
• Gareth Frank (a DC author) is in a writing group with EJ, and his book THE MOMENT BETWEEN—a psychological and metaphysical thriller recently released. EJ was an early beta for a draft and enjoys having the finished product in her hands.
• The pressure of the Libby list is REAL—EJ warned Em—but she didn’t realize. Now, Em is reading against the clock. 
• Em is reading a book called CONURE WOMEN by Afia Atakora. Em fell in love with the beautiful cover and chose it to read without even reading the back blurb. The book is very literary and takes place in the years before and after slavery. Em is very much digging the writing style, as well as the story of intelligent women and their story of survival.
• Next up on Em’s list is THE YEAR OF THE WITCHING by Alexis Henderson. She’s excited about it. Who doesn’t love a good witch story? 
• Don’t forget about our bookshop on bookshop.org. 
• Link to the Fantasy + Girl Bookshop: https://bookshop.org/shop/SFFGirlPodcast
• Stay tuned for the next episode where the girls chat about the movie MA.

• Right from the get-go, Em and EJ agree there’s an important topic that, coming out of the My Favorite Apocalypse series, we have not touched on enough: Cannibalism. It only comes up a few times every episode, we promise to do better. 
• Which brings us to JENNIFER’S BODY, our first pick for the miniseries.
• But put a pin in that, Em has some ideas: Since we’ve decided to focus this new miniseries on women of horror--writers, directors, actors, and more--she suggests calling it Not Your Scream Queen. That or Spooky Girls. 
• EJ is ready to roll but has no clue what movies these are--because they’re not. They’re title ideas for the series. Hello. 
• Not Your Scream Queen hits instant icon status.
• The full series will feature a close-up assessment of five different horror films. They don’t necessarily have feminist themes, but they’re all told by women to varying degrees. Which is perhaps somewhat feminist in itself? 
• Horror tropes have become so misogynistic within pop culture (not by genre!) that anything that deviates from that misogyny feels like it is inherently making a statement. 
• Em notes that growing up, if there was a girl in a horror film, by the end she was sure to be covered in blood and half naked. And those films aren’t always trash, but when that’s all that ever happens, come on. 
• EJ adds that if you’re not even playing with your tropes, and merely rehashing, where’s even the fun in that?
• In this series, Em and EJ are here to examine this issue and have some good spooky fun. 
• The films chosen for this series are female-written, directed, led, produced, or touch on “female” themes (or at least themes broadly considered female). We aimed for two of three of these for all films included.  
• And, most of them, we’re going in blind--including our first pick for today’s episode, Jennifer’s Body, starring Megan Fox and Amanda Seyfried. 
• Em remembers in the early 2000s when Megan Fox spoke out about her mistreatment during filming and auditioning for TRANSFORMERS by Michael Bay, and how she got blown off for it. She had to wash his car in a bikini for the audition. So cringey. 
• Now with #MeToo and the evolution of the conversation of women’s equal treatment, this would never be acceptable, but then, no one wanted to hear it. 
• We all owe Megan Fox an apology. 
• And, we like to believe, we’ve come a long way since this film released in 2007--not so very long ago!
• So let’s start with a synopsis: we snagged ours from Wikipedia.
• First of all, this film had an incredible cast! Not just Fox and Seyfried, but also with appearances from a pre-fame Chris Pratt,  JK Simmons (and out of typecasting to boot), Amy Sedaris, everywhere you turn there was a big name. Even most of the guys who play Jennifer’s victims were very familiar looking. 
• Not to mention, writers and director Diablo Cody--indie queen of JUNO, YOUNG ADULT, TULLY … a brilliant lady. 
• And of course, the film has earned a cult following since its original flop release. 
• For Em, there were a few reactions, and one was a hard cringe at the accuracy of this film’s reflection of being a teen in the 2000s -- the hair, the styles, the slang…. save us from our former selves.  
• The other big takeaway: In what universe is Amanda Seyfriend the “plain” best friend? 
• They at least tried with the classic 90s trick of giving the gorgeous actor glasses to make them a nerd. 
• Em observes the film starts with Seyfriend’s character, Needy, in jail after the events of the movie--she’s a kicker. Okay. But that line never circled back to any bigger meaning. 
• Was it because she’d always been the sidekick? She offed the person she was sidekick too?
• And let’s not forget The Kiss. A kiss between Jennifer and Needy was prominently featured in the film’s trailers, and it was a clear effort to pander to the teen guy horror cliche crowd. 
• But in the context of the film, and per Cody’s commentary, Needy was written to be a little in love with Jennifer from the start. Maybe romantically, but also could be taken to be that complicated way teen girls relate to each other--there’s always that one girl everyone seems to adore, or perhaps want to trade places with.  
• There was an obsession between Needy and Jennifer, and a codependency that was very complicated and twisted. 
• It says a lot about female friendship, about high school dynamics, about developing our own identities.
• Em suggests the film is a portrait of a toxic friendship. 
• Even though Needy was second fiddle, but still Jennifer won’t do anything without Needy. There clear rules to their dynamic, including what to wear and how to look, to ensure those dynamics stay in place. 
• EJ calls out that we’ve all been there. We’ve all internalized these kinds of unspoken rules to social dynamics, especially in high school. 
• The film is set in the small town Devil’s Kettle, where there is a waterfall with a whirlpool that sucks things in, and no one knows where the things that fall into it end up. 
• At the start of the film, Jennifer drags Needy along to a bar to see a band playing there. Early 2000s setting, so it’s emo rock, naturally. 
• Jennifer’s flirting with the band, and Needy hears the band talking about Jennifer while she’s getting a drink, calling her a virgin tease who won’t put out. Needy tries to defend her friend by telling them she is a virgin and you should be ashamed of yourselves. 
• EJ says as soon as the band leader opened his mouth, all she could hear was “Rape, rape, rape,” from his first words. 
• There’s a fire in the bar, and in the chaos after, Jennifer gets in the band’s van with them and drives away, despite Needy’s warnings and begging. 
• And for most of the movie, viewers don’t know what happened to Jennifer that night. But she returns as essentially a succubus, possessed by a demon. 
• Spoiler alert: The band tries to sacrifice a virgin to satan because that’s the only way to get ahead in the music business. And Jennifer was not, in fact, a virgin, so everything went awry. Apparently in which case, you are embodied by a demon. 
• Em really wishes the film had gone a different way. Really, a demon? Versus being killed? If she had then turned that demonic force against the band itself in a true revenge, Em would have been all about it. But instead, she ends up preying on relatively innocent teen boys who had nothing to do with it through the rest of the film. 
• EJ wrestled with it too, but landed on the idea that trauma passes forward. The film goes out of its way to make it clear the guys Jennifer murders in her warpath are not, themselves, evil, as the band members were.  
• If you looked at the story without the horror elements, it boils down to a woman who suffers a major trauma, and then takes it out on all men, and her friend’s efforts to stop it, tears them apart. 
• It’s notable that despite everything that happens over the film, Needy is still driven to vindicate her friend in the end, and finally turns the revenge on the band in the end. 
• But let’s talk about Jennifer as a character. 
• EJ loves a character who sucks as a human, so she was here for Jennifer and her shitty ways. And she likes that both the hero (Needy) and the villain, or at least the literal monster of the horror arc (Jennifer) were both women -- rare for a horror film!
• She also appreciated that Jennifer and her return by demon possession upended the trope ...

• FANTASY+GIRLS
  
  My Favorite Apocalypse Ep 4: The Apocalypse Goes Goth
  
  
  • EJ and Em have been gone…for a while. It is now July—months away from when they began the series in April
  • EJ and Em talk about how things have changed since the miniseries began. 
  • EJ and Em discuss the Black Lives Matter movement, how it is necessary, and how it is changing publishing. The hosts discuss easy ways that you can support Black authors and creators.
  • Em and EJ discuss the twitter hashtag #publishingpaidme on twitter and how it revealed the pay gap between white authors and everyone else, especially Black authors in the same genres. 
  • Em says it is imperative that the SFF genre embrace diversity so that we can experience weird and wonderful stories. EJ explains how this benefits readers and consumers—how everyone benefits when there are more seats at the table filled by diverse authors.
  • Em gives credit to the creator of the #publishingpaidme twitter hashtag, author L.L. McKinney. EJ loves all things Alice in Wonderland, and the hosts chat about how good L.L. McKinney’s a new series based on the classic novel, A BLADE SO BLACK, looks. 
  • EJ asks readers to check out #OwnVoices books and explains exactly what that means and why that is important.
  • EJ suggests listeners check out BlackAndBookish.com
  • EJ suggests DREAD NATION by author Justina Ireland. The historical fantasy/horror is a fresh take on zombies/zombie hunters. The book manages to be a zombie book that also examines the historic time period and slavery, but is also accessible and modern.
  • EJ’s second books suggestion is THE POPPY WAR. The hosts take a tangent down Libby lane. They adore Libby—who wouldn’t? It’s amazing. The Libby app will cause you to read faster because it is a race to read the book before the library takes the book back off of your device. EJ has checked out the POPPY WAR three times because Libby keeps taking it.
  • Em says she has been making a cognizant decision to read even more diversely. She is about to give her book picks, but takes a very on-brand detour to say she has been working on a darker work of fiction herself, as well as watching darker shows and even reading darker fiction. EJ jumps on board and says her current show is HANNIBAL.. 
  • Em says that since she has been writing such a dark book, she has been trying to read some fluffy, fun reads to keep her mind right. Em explains she is also currently reading five books at one time (ADHD has perks). Her current read is I WANNA BE WHERE YOU ARE by Kristina Forest. 
  • EJ just finished THE HAUNTING OF HILL HOUSE. Em suggests taking a Shirley Jackson deep dive.
  • Em explains that she knows she is supposed to be talking about the apocalypse, but her current reads have been all over the place. Recently, she has finished CIRCE by Madeline Miller (which is Em’s favorite book of the year so far). Then she read a vampire book. Then a DEXTER book.  Then a horror book titled, THE RETURN by Rachel Harrison. Em read MY LOVELY WIFE. 
  • EJ asks Em if she has heard the buzz about MEXICAN GOTHIC by Silvia Moreno-Garcia. EJ has FOMO. She wants to read it so bad. Em wants all the gothic stories forever and ever.
  • Em has a MEXICAN GOTHIC story. Em has been anticipated this book for months and months. She is about to start the audiobook.
  • EJ is super excited about the book CATHERINE HOUSE by Elisabeth Thomas.
  • Em loves the comps—NEVER LET ME GO is amazing.
  • Em is ready to dig into MEM by Bethany C. Morrow.
  • WESTWORLD SPOILERS AROUND THE 25 MINUTE MARK.
  • Em confesses that she thought she would thrive in the current environment, but now knows she would actually die pretty quickly in a real apocalypse.
  • Em’s next book recommendation is FRANKENSTEIN IN BAGHDAD by Ahmed Saadawi. 
  • EJ says how many people have retreated from the current world into romance novels, however she has fallen into dark, thriller, horror genre novels/shows.
  • Em commiserates that she often falls down the dark-fic rabbit hole. Sometimes after a binge, she thinks you need to almost read or watch something light to shake off the morbidity of darker books.
  • Full circle to Hannibal. EJ loves it—though it is admittedly gruesome.
  • HANNIBAL SPOILERS AROUND THE 28:20 MARK.
  • EJ tells a gruesome Hannibal plot point that has Em unable to cope.
  • The take another (on-brand) detour to Hannibal.
  • Why are our hosts still talking about cannibalism? Who knows? 
  • Em has watched every WUTHERING HEIGHTS adaptation available to stream. She knows she shouldn’t, but there is something about the toxic/terrible relationship between Heathcliff and Catherine.
  • EJ points out that JANE EYRE is in many ways the opposite of Wuthering Heights. Wuthering Heights is no restraint or boundaries—basically two codependent people being terrible to each other, while Jane Eyre is all restraint (but still a terrible relationship—if you can even use the term relationship).
  • Em says they got a message on Facebook asking for an episode on BATTLESTAR GALACTICA and CONTINUUM. 
  • EJ burst Em’s bubble about how we are two seconds from not having new television. 
  • The hosts take a quick detour to discuss all of the television shows they have watched, want to watch, and must watch.
  • The show ends abruptly—but it was a lot of fun! 
  • Goodbye and KEEP YOUR ZOMBIES. 

Shop the list of recommendations from this miniseries at BookShop.org

FANTASY+GIRLS
My Favorite Apocalypse Ep. 3: And We’re All Out of Bubble Gum

Note: This episode was recorded in April, before the murders of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor at the hands of police, and the subsequent protests. When Em and EJ talk about the current state of the world, they are referring to the very beginning of quarantine. FANTASY+GIRL Podcast stands behind Black Lives Matter. For our full Black Lives Matter statement, commentary on its impact on publishing, and how to support black authors, see the opening of episode 4 in this miniseries.

It is about to get really wacky on here! 

• Picture this: it’s the ’80s. Perms. Bleached mullets. Bruce Willis still had hair and your favorite hosts were only babies! There’s all kinds of movie goodness that came out during this time. But what she chose is C movie deliciousness that has somehow achieved cult status online. Em discovered this movie during a Halloween parade and has wanted to watch it ever since and she finally had an excuse (as if she needed one!).
• Em sets the scene: Imagine your mullet is blowing in the wind. You mosey into town in your acid washed jeans…also you’re a dude. You roll up to a homeless camp that somehow has an outdoor television with cable. But every so often there is static as something breaks illegally into the signal to proclaim, “They are among us and we are only safe because we don’t know about them! Wake up! They live!”
• Em is talking about the cult classic THEY LIVE! 
• The main character of the movie refuses to believe in the scrambled random cable messages until one day when he picks up a random pair of sunglasses and suddenly he can see the truth! They live among us! Aliens disguised as humans! Ah!
• With these random tech sunglasses you can read all of the subliminal messages that surround you in daily advertising. 
• This is the movie that gave us the one liners “You look like last week’s cheese dip!” and “I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum…and I’m all out of bubble gum!” and “Mama don’t like no tattle tales!” and “Life’s a bitch and she’s in heat.” 
• There’s no explanation of why the aliens are here, or why we care the aliens are here. The movie definitely isn’t plot heavy and if you love plot holes and senseless action scenes and a definite ’80s aesthetic, this might be for you! Just…don’t overthink it. It’s pretty terrible in a drinking game kind of way.
• Em admits that it is more pre-apocalypse than true apocalypse. And it definitely isn’t post-apocalypse.
• Em says the movie has quite the online following once she began digging into it.
• EJ’s pick is also pre-apocalypse. She asks Em if she is familiar with INVADER ZIM.
• EJ was obsessed with Invader Zim in college. It was her first binge watch—before binge watching was a thing. EJ lets Em know she can still find Invader Zim online on youtube.
• EJ gives us the premise: there are aliens who are planning to execute Operation Impending Doom 2 (bc Operation Impending Doom 1 failed). 
• Their entire hierarchy of alien power is based on height. We meet our invader, Zim, who is the reason the first Operation Impending Doom failed.
• Invader Zim gets sent to Earth (just so his leaders can get rid of him…although he thinks he is on an important mission.) Every episode is about taking over the world. EJ proclaims that it has one of the best soundtracks of any animated show.
• EJ says the show has a very PINKY AND THE BRAIN feel. Em is here for it—she loves Pinky and the Brain.
• Em asks EJ if she saw the animated movie Home because the people who wrote it must have been fans of Invader Zim. 
• Em asks how could they forget HITCHHIKER’S GUIDE TO THE GALAXY by Douglas Adams? EJ says it’s one of the few stories that begins with a true apocalypse—the destruction of the Earth. If Em remembers correctly, the world was destroyed to make room for an interstellar highway and Earth forgot to file paperwork to avoid being destroyed. However, the dolphins knew what was up! 
• Em talks about how people are still super fans of this series and you can still spot stickers on people’s cars that say, “So long and thanks for all the fish,” and, “Don’t panic!” It makes Em super happy and EJ interjects that it’s always relevant.
• Em admits that all of the episodes are running together and she wonders if they were supposed to research sweet apocoli. Who knows?
• Em brings up for LOOKING FOR A FRIEND AT THE END OF THE WORLD with Steve Carrell and Kiera Knightly. 
• EJ brings up the heaviest, artsy, moodiest apocalypse movie: MELANCHOLIA. Melancholia is dark the entire time, however it was visually beautiful.
• EJ says that the movie was more about beautiful scenes than plot. 
• Em still struggles saying Apocalyptic. Can she even talk? Quarantine brain!
• Omaha comes up again! This time because of their amazing nonprofit movie theatre. The movie theatre focuses on film education and offers talks with directors and info sheets. This theatre meant a lot to EJ (as does Omaha in general).
• Em takes a trip down memory lane to the early 2000s and the awesome cartoons that debuted. Her favorite was THE GRIMM ADVENTURES OF BILLY AND MANDY, about a goofy sibling duo where the sister, Mandy, is best friends with the Grimm Reaper. It was amazing.
• EJ asks Em if she remembers HOMESTAR RUNNER and Em decides that EJ and her little sister are basically the same person.
• The hosts talk about their real-life apocalypse. Em mentions that her kids are on spring break but that means absolutely nothing during quarantine. EJ talks about how she and her hubs structured their entire lives about living outside of their studio apartment, so learning to exist inside the space 24/7 has been interesting (but also good).
• Quarantine has definitely shifted how people view their lives.
• Em tells a funny story that is probably TMI about her husband and a video conference. It could have ended badly…thank goodness for good luck!
• Things take a serious turn. EJ mentions knowing people who have been very negatively impacted by COVID. Em says that they are joking around to help others relax and smile, but the show is in no way making light of the actual situation—they’d never discount the trauma some people are facing.
• EJ is happily surprised at how creators are getting creative to help entertain people and lift spirits (specifically online sing-alongs and the Disney sing-along on television). 
• The girls talk about finding the balance of staying positive and protecting your mental health, but also not living in bubble of denial. 
• EJ mentions BookShop.Org. 
• BookShop is a sort of non-profit where you can buy books and designate a bookshop in your community to receive the funds from your purchase. The shopping experience is amazing—so much better than Amazon. 
• EJ vetted BookShop.org for an article and it is legit. There are amazing curated lists of books based on many different things. The mood is very similar to walking into a real bookshop. It wasn’t created specifically for quarantine—but came out just in time.
• Em cannot wait until she can go and eat some Indian food and walk around a bookstore. She misses normalcy.
• EJ suggests curating lists for the podcast for Bookshop.org. It is a great idea and will happen! 
• Hit us up with your favorite apocalypse! Leave us a review! Until next time! 

Shop the list of recommendations from this miniseries at BookShop.org

FANTASY+GIRLS
My Favorite Apocalypse Ep. 2: Radioactive Carrots

Note: This episode was recorded in April, before the murders of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor at the hands of police, and the subsequent protests. When Em and EJ talk about the current state of the world, they are referring to the very beginning of quarantine. FANTASY+GIRL Podcast stands behind Black Lives Matter. For our full Black Lives Matter statement, commentary on its impact on publishing, and how to support black authors, see the opening of episode 4 in this miniseries.

What is the plural of apocalypse, anyway?

• Signed and approved—the plural of apocalypse is apocolypti. And can it be bad if there are chicken enchiladas involved? There are still no zombies—which is kind of disappointing but probably a good thing.
• Em chats about the movie version of I AM LEGEND and how fun it was. It was loosely based on the story (novella?) I AM LEGEND by Richard Matheson. Em re-reads it every few years. It was the first book that Em read in the apocalyptic genre that made her go, “huh?”  She talks about the difference between the movie and the book and explains the monsters from the book to EJ and how the title makes so much more sense in the book.
• EJ wonders, as an author, how it would feel if Hollywood takes your story and completely changes it. Em thinks that even though the book was written long ago, that the book and the movie evoke the same feeling. There were a lot of similarities with a majorly different ending. 
• It reminds EJ of the TWILIGHT ZONE episode where the woman is having her face done (episode: EYE OF THE BEHOLDER. Original: 1959. Remake: 2002)…except if they ended the episode before the big twist.
• EJ says it’s like the entire point is gone. 
• Em is a Twilight Zone super fan. EJ, too. The girls geek out about it for a moment and discuss the Twilight Zone episode TO SERVE MAN. EJ watched it in grade school, which led to a Twilight Zone club at school where kids gathered to watch episodes at lunch.
• Em would have killed for geek friends. She tried to explain it to her jock friends, “You don’t understand! They were serving man! It was a cookbook!” only to be looked at as if she were bananas.
• Em circles back to THE SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE bc it reminds her of IT’S A COOKBOOK! 
• EJ points out that maybe Em has a thing for cannibal tales (as a joke!). The girls crack themselves up.
• They begin chatting about THE WALKING DEAD. EJ thinks Em should give it another shot.
• Em loved the zombies but bailed when it got to the season where survivors were trapping and cooking each other. She noped right on out.
• Em tells a story about her dad letting her watch whatever she wanted when her mom was working nights as a nurse. She recalls watching TOTAL RECALL(the original) and her dad pausing it and making her cover her eyes every so often. But she peeked and was mesmerized (scarred?) by the three boobed alien.
• Pros and cons of three boobs? There are many!
• EJ’s take on the apocalypse is RESIDENT EVIL. They have the BEST monsters.
• Resident Evil released in 2002, but seems very 90s. EJ was never a gamer so she wasn’t familiar with the content.
• EJ says it is so campy and over the top, but the monsters are truly terrible. She would never survive in that particular apocalypse. Em says no one would bc the monsters are constantly evolving.
• Em tells the story of watching the last installment at the theatre with her sisters at a midnight showing. They were the only ones in the theatre and were so loud and obnoxious—it was great!
• EJ wants to be Alice. 
• EJ says she could survive the Walking Dead apocalypse. Em says that she thinks that she could—but isn’t sure she would. After a year of zombies, no electricity, no toilets, or antibiotics, she isn’t sure she’d want to keep playing.
• Em asks EJ if she ever read LILITH’S BROOD by Octavia Butler. (Possibly disused during the Halloween episode).
• Em hasn’t re-read it probably in ten years, but she can still remember so much of it because it is THAT GOOD.  Mankind has ended, but survivors wake up on a spaceship manned by a nomadic alien race called the Oankali. Em says it is the most bizarre thing she’s ever read but also the most interesting.
• The way the Oankali survive is by inter-breeding with new species. They are peaceful and do not force themselves or take over—but they offer their way as an alternative to Earth’s dying planet. 
• Em says she is making the plot sound campy, but truthfully it is a heartfelt, strange book. It is the kind of book that makes you really want to meet the author because it is so involved that you know the person who came up with the world has a lot of going on with their imagination.
• EJ brings up COWBOYS VS. ALIENS. EJ says it is TOO MUCH but also SO GREAT. Em is always down for a Weird Western.
• The movie is ridiculous and you either lean into the weirdness or you get out.
• Em brings up the campy comedy show, THE LAST MAN ON EARCH. Em binged the entire thing—she says it isn’t the best show ever, but is highly entertaining. The episodes are only about twenty minutes long and they don’t require much thought. They are dumb and the characters are all morally gray, but it works. If you are looking for something to make you laugh, check it out. However, it does end on a cliffhanger. Em says it doesn’t require being very engaged to watch.
• EJ says SANTA CLARITA DIET also ended on a cliffhanger and that she will never get over it.
• Things take a turn as the girls bring up GILLIGAN’S ISLAND. EJ loves Gilligan’s Island. 
• EJ was obsessed with Land of the Lost. Em asks if there was a remake with Will Ferrell in the early 2000s?  EJ has blocked it from her memory.
• EJ’s most vivid memory of LAND OF THE LOST is an episode where the family was being haunted by the spirit of their dead mother. It was strange and possibly scarred EJ (lol). EJ doesn’t do scary.
• BACK TO GILLIGAN’S ISLAND. Your hosts think that HBO should make a Gilligan’s Island remake, but make it gritty. Instead of a movie star—make her a porn star. The Howells would either be Silicon Valley, or disgusting Trump types. Or the complete other direction and have a characters based on Beyoncé and Jay Z. The girls would totally watch it.
• Em wonders why such a random group of characters were all on the same boat? Why would millionaires like the Howells ever pay for a three hour tour on Gilligan’s boat? IT MAKES NO SENSE.
• EJ tells Em not to overthink it but Em insists it’s weird—they had coconut phones but no toilet paper! EJ asks if Em remembers the episode where they ate the radioactive carrots. 
• EJ tells how the Gilligan crew ate radioactive carrots they find on the island for no reason. Em says that maybe their favorite apocalypse is Gilligan’s Island. 
• EJ explains the episode while Em cracks up. 
• Em wonders which apocalypse really would be her favorite—but she has nothing. She has major quarantine brain.
• EJ explains the difference between post-apocalypse and apocalypse. 
• Em brings up GOOD OMENS. 
• EJ says it is the first one they’ve talked about where there is actually the apocalypse.
• Em blanks out bc all she can now think about is David Tenant. (Understandable!)
• EJ mentions how PREACHER begins with an asteroid that is supposed to hit the earth.
• Em says that it has been on her watch-list forever. EJ says she has mixed feelings about the show because the comics are so much better. She says the show explains too much and slows down the plot. The comics are bonkers, ...

FANTASY+GIRLS
My Favorite Apocalypse Ep. 1: Don’t Eat the Soylent Green Show Notes

Note: This episode was recorded in April, before the murders of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor at the hands of police, and the subsequent protests. When Em and EJ talk about the current state of the world, they are referring to the very beginning of quarantine. FANTASY+GIRL Podcast stands behind Black Lives Matter. For our full Black Livse Matter statement, our commentary on its impact on publishing, and how to support black authors, see the opening of episode 4 in this miniseries.

The world is ending and the girls are wondering: Is this how you pictured the apocalypse?

• Em wonders why our current situation isn’t more Mad Max and less yoga pants. Beyond Thunder Dome scarred her and that is where her mind goes when you say apocalypse. EJ admits to only seeing the Fury Road, but Em says she has no idea if the originals are good or not, bc she was a kid when she watched them.
• EJ and Em admit that they have quarantine brain. How do you even podcast?
• The theme of the new series is MY FAVORITE APOCALYPSE.
• Em goes first. She says her pick isn’t her favorite—but it is one of the more interesting. She says her husband’s fav is ZOMBIELAND. This takes a quick tangent into zombies. Em doesn’t think she would last long. She is more of a SHAWN OF THE DEAD girl. The zombies are slower so she would stand a chance. EJ says fast zombies would be how she died—she doesn’t belong in that world.
• Em mentions the book THE FOREST OF HANDS AND TEETH by Carrie Ryan and the interesting way that slow and fast zombies are explained in the book. Surprise—it has nothing to do with decay.
• Your hosts commiserate about what exactly the current apocalypse means and how slowing down isn’t terrible, though they feel guilty saying that since so many people are sick.
• Em’s apocalyptic pick is SOYLENT GREEN. She sets the scene for the movie that is from the 1970s but takes place in futuristic New York after a climate catastrophe and overpopulation. She first saw the movie in a seventh grade science class when her teacher just showed scifi all day and didn’t teach. EJ is understandably jealous—she had to actually learn at school!
• No spoilers in the notes for SOYLENT GREEN—but Em recaps the movie and the big plot twist at the end (okay one spoiler: THE SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE! THE SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!) 
• Em tells a Facebook story from a few years ago. She accepted a request from a guy from high school—but she moved 13 times between fifth grade and senior year so she admits to not always remembering everyone. EJ wonders how Em learned anything. Em says she didn’t, lol.
• The guy ended up being a huge conspiracy theorist, and so Em commented THE SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE on one of his especially outlandish theories and he got mad and unfriended her, but she was just glad someone got the obscure movie reference.
• Em admits, that if she lived in a post-apocalyptic world and the government was offering weird—but free and nutritious—food, she’d probably just eat it and not ask questions. She asks, Do you wanna know what is in your hot dog? EJ doesn’t!
• They move on from cannibalism references because the joke doesn’t land, lol.
• EJ’s turn! She brings it with the book: SUPER SAD TRUE LOVE STORY by Gary Shteyngart.
• EJ sets the scene by filling Em in on the novel’s setting: a world where society and country are deeply entangled with corporations. She explains that it is similar to when church and state were the same, except instead of church, it is private corporations.  Plastic surgery and medical tech can help you to look and live however you want as long as you can pay for it, which has created an even bigger socioeconomic gap. At the core of the plot between the main characters is a love story. The protagonic works at a medical tech company that is super popular—EJ compares it to the Apple of the future except the accessories are for your own body. 
• The protagonist is jaded and doesn’t buy into the culture of maxing out your own body which makes him relatable to the reader, but a complete loser in his fictional world. The protagonist falls in love with a woman within his company. Much of the book is told through emails. While the romance is happening, the world in the background is super unsettling.
• EJ compares it to our current situation and how we are all plugged in all the time. In the book, she explains, you have a pendant and whenever you go anywhere—like a bar—you are logged in and geo-located. Everyone else can see who you are and where you are and what you are about, then rank you as a human. Em says it gives her a Black Mirror vibe. EJ agrees.
• This futuristic world is overrun with clickbait…which is kind of what we are living with now.
• EJ gives spoilers for SUPER SAD LOVE STORY.
• Em brings up MINORITY REPORT and the retina scans that were a prominent plot device of the movie. EJ jokes that we are two seconds away from that.
• The hosts realize that many of their favorite media and stories are apocalypse themed. EJ brings up BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER and the constant Save the World plot.
• Buffy is so campy and kitschy but eventually you will love it, they agree. 
• Em asks EJ about the transition in Buffy from the movie to the series. 
• EJ asks Em is she knows about SCOTT PILGRIM’S PRECIOUS LITTLE LIFE and Em says she is familiar but not fluent.
• EJ tells of how Scott Pilgrim inspired her love for comics. It all started in Omaha… (Because of course it did!)
• The co-workers who introduced EJ to comics were not your snotty, comic mean-geek-boys, but were very nice. One of the guys owned every single Scott Pilgrim issue and loaned them to EJ. She’s been hooked on comics ever since.
• Em asks how the Scott Pilgrim movie holds up to the comics.
• EJ says it is enjoyable but it is heavily stylized—so you have to be into that. 
• BRAIN FART! EJ tries to remember the name of a particular anime. [Note from post-recording: It was SUCKER PUNCH.]
• Em mentions how apocalyptic fiction was very popular for a hot minute and she was here for it…but as much as she loved it—a lot of it runs together for her now.
• Em describes the book LIFE AS WE KNEW IT by Susan Beth Pfeffer, though she can’t remember the name of it on the episode.
• EJ mentions another comic she loves by the same author as Scott Pilgrim (Brian Lee O’Malley). It is called SECONDS. Both Seconds and Scott Pilgrim are coming of age tales, though at different points in the differing protagonists’ lives. (Scott Pilgrim is in his 20s while the protagonist of Seconds is in her 30s).
• Seconds is a graphic novel about a woman and a house elf.
• Em asks EJ if she remembers the old PLANET OF THE APES.
• Em grew up watching them becaus her dad owned a video store (shout out to Crosby World Video Rental & Book Exchange!). Em says she doesn’t suggest the old Planet of the Apes. She suggests the remakes. She had fond memories of the old movies but did a re-watch several years ago and the first one was fine, but then they got really weird about atomic bombs and underground societies wearing fake-face masks. She remembered (from childhood) as a comedy. It definitely is not a comedy.
• EJ asks if Em remember when Rodriguez and Tarantino did a double feature in the early 2000s. Rodriguez did PLANET TERROR. It features Rose McGowan as the main character in a zombie film. McGowan’s character has a leg as a machine gun. Em excitedly remembers the promotion for it and EJ is still here for it.
• Em never saw the movie but remembers the character (she got a promo sticker at a Bloc...