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    I'm Aware That I'm Rare: the phaware® podcast

    I'm Aware That I'm Rare: the phaware® podcast is devoted to raising global pulmonary hypertension awareness with dynamic stories from PH patients, caregivers and medical professionals from around the world. Through this series of impactful, insightful and, most importantly, hopeful stories from members of the global pulmonary hypertension community, we hope to further the global #phaware conversation as well as to capture, engage and enable misdiagnosed and undiagnosed PH patients because early diagnosis and treatment can mean the difference between life and death. Topics range from the importance of early diagnosis and global PH awareness, to the impact of clinical trials to how patient support and advocacy are paramount to battling this disease. Learn more about PH at www.phaware.global
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    Episodes (937)

    Sharon Tokonitz - phaware® interview 449

    Sharon Tokonitz - phaware® interview 449

    Six years ago, Canadian pulmonary hypertension patient Sharon Tokonitz was rushed to the hospital with a massive bilateral unprovoked pulmonary embolism. She discusses her road to recovery from being bedridden to returning to an active life thanks to pulmonary rehab.

    My name is Sharon Tokonitz. I live in Kingston, Ontario, Canada, which is 100 miles south of Ottawa, the capital of Canada. I ended up, September 11, 2017, going into the hospital by ambulance, with a massive bilateral unprovoked pulmonary embolism. A year before, I had gone to my family physician, because I started sweating. Now, it was July. It was hot weather. But something, in my mind, just didn't seem right with me. Because there's heart disease in my family, my family physician referred me to a cardiologist. He told me, "There's not a thing wrong with your heart," he said. "It's got to be your lungs."

    I saw him in September. By the time the referral went to respirology, it was November. Then from November of 2016 to July before I got an appointment with a respirologist, as soon as she examined me, she said, "Wow, there's a blockage someplace in your chest. Don't know what it is, but we've got to start testing and find out what's going on." That was July of 2017. On September 11, 2017, I went into Kingston General Hospital emergency, and had almost lost my life. The doctor said, "Why did you wait so long? Another couple of hours, and you wouldn't be talking with me." That's how quick it was.

    I spent the next eight months in hospital from ICU at Kingston General, and then they transferred me almost three months later, over to a rehab facility in Kingston. So I spent from September until May for the first round of being in the hospital. It wasn't really shocking, because I started sweating. Like I said, it was in July, so it was hot, humid. But every time I'd get out of the shower, it was like, I'd towel dry, and then it was just running down my face. I had this sense of doom or something that was like, something's not right with me, because I never felt like that before. I mean, I'd always been a person that never sat down, was always on the go. Nursing and raising two children, two boys, active boys, and just never sat down. Something just wasn't right. I thought that was the end of me.

    I had a wonderful respirologist. They were going to try to do surgery to remove the clots out of my lungs. But after all my testing, the doctor that was going to do the surgery said that it was not possible. I never did have the surgery. I still have clots in my lungs. But when I went to rehab, they got me up from being bedridden, up and going shopping at Walmart. The head of rehab, he ordered the walker for me. After nursing and being so active and on the go, and then there's a walker presented to me. I said, "Oh, I don't want that thing." He said, "We're going to get you up and get you out shopping and all." I said, "Oh, I'll never be shopping again." I was just so pessimistic that my life was done. I mean, they got me up, and like I said, I started shopping at Walmart and the local mall and whatever.

    Then the pandemic hit. Life during COVOD was very difficult. I was housebound. I wasn't going to doctor's appointments. Doctors were calling me at home. I wasn’t seeing anybody. I live in an apartment building with mostly seniors over 55. Nobody was visiting us. Families couldn't visit or anything. It was just everybody was on lockdown. I wasn't going to rehab. I was not seeing my respirologist. She was calling me with appointments, going over my blood pressure and my O2 on the oximeter. Physio didn't start back up until a year and a half after COVID started.

    So I was just in my apartment. The only calls I got was from my two sons. Life was rough then. It felt like you were bedridden again, almost. I started getting back to my clinic appointments, which I just have regular physical appointments all the time. Echocardiograms, and it just goes on and on and on. Then, because my respirologist, who is such a dear doctor to all of us, she does research 75% of her time. She works in critical care and ICU 100% of her time. She was doing clinics for pulmonary hypertension 100% of her time. She was never home, so she had to give up something to have a life of her own also. So she gave up her clinics. So I've been transferred now to the Ottawa Heart Institute.

    After the world opened up from the pandemic, things have gotten easier. I go to Walmart more. I'm going to my regular appointments. You start to see a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel, "Well, maybe I can start living again." The statistics have always been, you might live three years. Now it's come up, like four years, maybe five years. For me, it'll be six years in September, and I'm still going strong. Yeah, there's days that I'm so tired I can't navigate, days I can't breathe. But I'm stubborn, and away I go, with the help from the doctors and everyone else.

    You can get very lonely when you get this diagnosis, and you think that your life has ended right there. I shouldn't say it's nice to know that somebody else is in the same position, but when they are in the same position, we can maybe help each other out.

    My name is Sharon Tokonitz, and I'm aware that I'm rare.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com @phacanada 

    Episode 449 - Sharon Tokonitz

    Episode 449 - Sharon Tokonitz

    Six years ago, Canadian pulmonary hypertension patient Sharon Tokonitz was rushed to the hospital with a massive bilateral unprovoked pulmonary embolism. She discusses her road to recovery from being bedridden to returning to an active life thanks to pulmonary rehab.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com @phacanada 

    Saire Gonzalez, RN and Kimberly Hudson, RN - phaware® interview 448

    Saire Gonzalez, RN and Kimberly Hudson, RN - phaware® interview 448

    Kimberly Hudson and Saire Gonzalez are registered nurses with CVS Specialty Pharmacy who work with patients with pulmonary hypertension (PH). They provide support, education, and guidance to patients who are newly diagnosed with PH and help them navigate their drug therapies and lifestyle changes. They also highlight the role of caregivers and the availability of support groups for both patients and caregivers. @CVSHealth

    Kimberly Hudson, RN:
    Hello, my name is Kim Hudson. I'm a nurse with CVS Health Specialty Pharmacy working with the PH program since 2018. I live in Southwest Florida. I get to work with people and help them live a happy, healthy life with continued support for their pulmonary hypertension.

    Saire Gonzalez, RN:
    And I'm Saire Gonzalez. I am also a registered nurse with CVS Specialty Pharmacy. I live in Menifee, California, which is in Southern California. I have been with CVS since the beginning of 2021, so this is a new space for me. But I've definitely enjoyed being able to educate and provide support to the PH community. We're here to tell you what the day in the life is of a CVS specialty nurse for PH patients.

    Kimberly Hudson, RN:
    I find it so fulfilling as we get to know our patients. I love building relationships. We enter their homes, we learn about their lives, their milestones, even their daily struggles with pulmonary hypertension. We meet our patients that are newly diagnosed. We educate them on their drugs, their prescribed therapies from their doctors, educate and support.

    Saire Gonzalez, RN:
    In my case, I actually have an old coworker who joined CVS before I did and she just told me what it was that she did and I found that to be very interesting. I did work through COVID, so working bedside through COVID was something else for nurses. So I really wanted to go into a different avenue of nursing where I could still have that one-on-one connection with patients, but not have the burnt out experience that was happening during COVID. I feel like this is just a perfect space, because I get to specialize in an area and have that one-on-one connection with patients and still provide support and education. It's something that I've really enjoyed since coming over to CVS.

    Kimberly Hudson, RN:
    We meet the patients once they are fully diagnosed with pulmonary hypertension and they're prescribed their drug therapy. As nurses outside of the doctors' office, we are sometimes the eyes and ears for the doctors. We see things doctors don't often see from their office. We see their quality of life, what their needs are at home. We either meet them in their homes or at the hospital depending on their therapy.

    Saire Gonzalez, RN:
    Just to add on to that, it varies. Most of the time we do meet them in the home once they've been sent home from the hospital or just if they were diagnosed through seeing specialists but not necessarily being hospitalized. We also do see patients that are unfortunately very sick and do have to leave the hospital on infused therapies. Then we do have to start the education process in the hospital. So we see both.

    Kimberly Hudson, RN:
    I think mental health is a big part of their diagnosis. Their symptoms of PH really affect their everyday life. Changes are necessary in their life, whether they're willing to make them or not. It can affect them financially to not work or work as much, increases in medical costs. Even the side effects of medications can really affect their life.

    Saire Gonzalez, RN:
    For some people, it's a complete 180 to what their lives used to be. I especially find that for the younger patients, it's a big adjustment that they have to deal with because they're processing that this is a diagnosis that does not have a cure, that is progressive, and that they will see changes in their lives. Sometimes things that they were able to do before are things that they no longer can do. For example, for the patients that have to go home on infusions, something like being able to take a bath or go into a pool or go to the beach, a lot of these things have to be modified. Or maybe it's something that we take for granted, but something as simple as that can really take a toll on these patients because they go from "normal" to now having to deal with this disease.

    Kimberly Hudson, RN:
    I feel they are very resilient of being diagnosed with this chronic disease. They're either on oral, IV or SubQ therapies. As a nurse, I just try and teach them to be an advocate for themselves. We try and guide them to this level. We see them at the beginning of their journey. It is very scary. I just try to provide them with as much knowledge to give them the power over their disease as they can. I definitely think the caregivers play a huge role in this. They have a lot going on themselves. They have a lot to learn. I think a lot of responsibility does fall on them, so they need to be educated as well, and they need just as much support.

    Saire Gonzalez, RN:
    To add to that, I think the good thing is that there is so much support out there for this just with other people that have PAH. There's support groups and there's not just support groups for the patients, but we do see that there's support groups for caregivers. You could find local support groups or there's even virtual support groups where they meet once a month and just kind of have a space where they can express how they're feeling. So that's kind of nice. It can feel isolating at the beginning when they're diagnosed with something like this. But then when we're able to show them that there is a lot of support out there and there are other people that are going through this and thriving, I think that gives both the caregivers and the patients hope that they can still live healthy and fulfilling lives despite this disease.

    Kimberly Hudson, RN:
    We have also partnered with a platform called Unite Us. This platform provides different types of support to patients in different ways. We see the struggles that patients have firsthand going into their homes. Sometimes it's just the need for food or utility assistance. We provide different support groups that are available or transportation. It's groups in the area that offer assistance, not just to PH patients but to people in general. But we have partnered with this group for our PH team.

    Saire Gonzalez, RN:
    I've had experience with being present for walks. The good thing is that there's walks in big areas around here in California. We do have quite a few that are relatively travel-wise, easy to get to. Through these walks, we actually meet people in the community. From those walks, I've actually been able to present at support groups locally. I did one for patients that were in the Anaheim area, which is in Southern California. I have another one coming up for patients that are associated with the LA area. Also, it's a lot of networking that we do because we… or at least in my case, I'm able to go to our centers for our physicians where they do presentations for the community. We're also able to engage with patients in that sense, as well. You build networks, you build relationships. We do definitely let them know that the CVS nurses are available to do presentations for their support groups. That's kind of how we get those set up.

    Kimberly Hudson, RN:
    We have continued education that we attend continually through pharmaceutical companies, through different symposiums, support groups.

    Saire Gonzalez, RN:
    We also attend the conferences that are available. I know those are a little bit not as frequent. We do try to give the opportunity for all of the nurses across the country to have the chance to go to these conferences, so we know we have to kind of take turns. But the nice thing is that when a nurse goes out to these conferences, they gather all of the information that they obtained through our monthly meetings with all of the nurses across the nation or even just our regional meetings. We share what it is that we've learned. We do presentations within these monthly meetings that we have. So we definitely get to share that information with all of the nurses. We continually grow on the education that we were receiving throughout the year.

    I think that definitely during the holidays it can be a bit overwhelming because if there is that financial stress that you have already, because some of these therapies can be very expensive. Or if people are not working or not able to work anymore, there's definitely a financial stress around the holidays. Or even a lot of people travel to see family members around the holidays. I know that sometimes that can be a little bit more involved with PH patients that are either on oxygen or they're on certain medication therapies that do require more consideration when they're traveling. But the good thing is that we have resources for them, both financial assistance and also we do presentations on how to travel being PH patients and how to be prepared so that they don't have to stress over their ability to travel, that there are options for them to be able to see their families and not feel so restricted to just being at home.

    Kimberly Hudson, RN:
    When I encounter a newly diagnosed patient, I would have this little bit of advice. These drugs are not easy drugs to take. That's why they need our support. They need to be patient, they need to be resilient. They really need to trust us in the process. That's where I really like to be a support system to them, because it's not easy. It's a lot for them to take. It's a lot of side effect management. It's a lot of trusting their doctors. I'm very upfront with them in the beginning. I let them know that they do have a support system, not just in their family or their doctor, but in us. I like to be that person for them. I just feel if I can make a difference in one person's life, it's someone I made a difference with.

    Saire Gonzalez, RN:
    I think my takeaway would be knowledge is power. I think that no matter what disease someone may have, I think the more educated and the more informed you are on the condition that you have, the better that you can advocate for yourself and that you can manage it. I've definitely seen that difference where I've met patients that have done the research, have joined support groups, are constantly reading what's next, what's being studied. I feel like those patients have a better mindset with this disease. They're the ones that are actually reaching out to the doctors and saying, "Hey, I just read about this. What do we think about this?" So I think that that just applies to everybody. The more knowledgeable you are about things that are affecting your health, the better you would be to advocate for yourself and to maybe learn new ways of treating your disease or just managing it day-to-day. Especially when you're talking to other people that are going through the same experience as yourself, that they better than anyone know the tips and the tricks on how to manage day-to-day things.

    My name is Saire Gonzalez.

    Kimberly Hudson, RN:
    And my name is Kimberly Hudson. And we are aware that our patients are rare.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com 

    Episode 448 - Saire Gonzalez, RN and Kimberly Hudson, RN

    Episode 448 - Saire Gonzalez, RN and Kimberly Hudson, RN

    Kimberly Hudson and Saire Gonzalez are registered nurses with CVS Specialty Pharmacy who work with patients with pulmonary hypertension (PH). They provide support, education, and guidance to patients who are newly diagnosed with PH and help them navigate their drug therapies and lifestyle changes. They also highlight the role of caregivers and the availability of support groups for both patients and caregivers. @CVSHealth

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com 

    Raymond L. Benza, MD - phaware® interview 447

    Raymond L. Benza, MD - phaware® interview 447

    Dr. Raymond Benza, a Professor of Medicine at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, discusses dual therapy in the treatment of pulmonary hypertension (PH) through the concept of risk stratification. 

    Good day everyone. My name is Dr. Raymond Benza. I am a Professor of Medicine at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York. I am a Pulmonary Hypertension physician and researcher in risk stratification and genomics of the disease. Today, we're here to speak about the concept of dual therapy.

    Now, the importance of dual therapy, I think, has been conceived in looking at the data and looking at the outcome of patients who have been treated with monotherapy versus dual therapy. This has evolved using the concepts of risk stratification. As we know, risk stratification is now one of the most important ways in which we judge the severity of disease and then try to match the aggressiveness of our medical therapy based on that level of risk.

    Three main risk groups exist commonly, low, intermediate, and high risk. These are all based on mortality estimates. With a low-risk patient expected to experience a mortality rate of only 5% per year. An intermediate risk patient expected to experience a mortality of rate between five to 10%, and then a high-risk patient expected to have a mortality rate in excess of 10%. We use this risk stratification allocation, which are based on several multiparametric algorithms or formulas based on very common variables that we assess clinically; including functional class or natriuretic peptide levels, six-minute walk distance, and some imaging, and hemodynamic variables.

    We use these to classify our patient's risk before we start therapy. What we have found is that patients even deemed low risk, seem to do better with two upfront drugs as opposed to one upfront drug. This is a very important concept, because as many of you remember about a decade ago, we would start medication serially.

    We would try one drug and then if the expected functional improvements didn't match what we wanted, we would add a second drug and then wait a little bit and add a third drug. But we have really changed the way that we do that now based on these risk stratification schemes. So upfront patient treated initially would be with two drugs of different classes, most often an Endothelin Antagonist and a PDE5 inhibitor, irregardless of whether they were low or intermediate risk.

    Patients who are higher risk would be treated with upfront triple therapy. So an Endothelin Antagonist, a PDE5 inhibitor, and prostacyclin analog. Using these upfront combination therapies, we have found that the outcome of patients have improved significantly within each one of those risk categories. That's not to say that patients who are low risk may not benefit from starting one therapy. In fact, there's been a recent study that was published a month or two ago in the CHEST Journal that demonstrated that people at ultra-low risk usually indicated by a REVEAL score of less than five can continue to benefit from monotherapy. This has not been translated into the guidelines yet.

    So at this point, any low-risk patient according to the guidelines, to still get an upfront dual combination therapy in order to give them the maximum benefit to achieve low risk and to maintain low risk. That's our main concept now in our follow-up for patients with pulmonary hypertension. Usually at three-to-four-month markers, we will take a look at a patient in totality and calculate their risk scores. Again, either using the US system REVEAL or the European system, to see where they are in that risk continuum.

    If patients continue to be at intermediate or higher risk is when we will add additional therapeutics to their regimens. Perhaps switching a PDE5 to riociguat or adding a prostacyclin analog, or titrating a prostacyclin analog. Even if they're on triple therapy, we may start considering whether they may be eligible for transplantation or not, or if any of our new experimental protocols that come out with some new compounds.

    That's the good news for PH patients at this point, is that we have a lot of new drugs in the pipeline to treat this disease that really work on the disease in a different perspective than our older medications do. They really are now geared towards making the pulmonary vessels normal again, so not dilating them, but actually working on the meat of the vessel to make that vessel thinner and more compliant.

    I think that's really captures the essence of the use of upfront combination therapy or dual therapy. Now, again, is to drive patients even at the lower ends of risk to the lowest risk possible, to give them the best mortality and morbidity expectations over the subsequent year with the caveat that frequent reassessments of patients is required and frequent adjustments of medications to keep them or to achieve low risk is indicated.

    As always, thanks for listening. My name is Dr. Raymond Benza and I'm aware that my patients are rare.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com #phawareMD @IcahnMountSinai @RaymondBenzaMD

    Episode 447 - Raymond L. Benza, MD

    Episode 447 - Raymond L. Benza, MD

    In this episode, Dr. Raymond Benza, a Professor of Medicine at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, discusses dual therapy in the treatment of pulmonary hypertension (PH) through the concept of risk stratification. 

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com #phawareMD @IcahnMountSinai @RaymondBenzaMD

    Nancy Halnon, MD - phaware® interview 446

    Nancy Halnon, MD - phaware® interview 446

    Pediatric cardiologist, Nancy Halnon, MD, discusses treatment goals for pulmonary hypertension, the various routes of administration and the importance of using combination therapy to improve survival. 

    Hello, I'm Dr. Nancy Halnon. I'm a pediatric cardiologist at Mattel Children's Hospital at UCLA and I take care of a lot of kids who have pulmonary hypertension. I want to talk a little bit about the treatments that we use. I'll start with what the goals are for the treatment. It's not like an infection that you can use an antibiotic and kill the infection. Pulmonary hypertension is a disorder that's going to be with you. Depending on what causes it, there's probably not a way to cure it, so it's going to be a chronic disorder that you're going to live with for a long time. 

    Our treatment goals, therefore are going to have more to do with minimizing symptoms to make your symptoms more manageable, to improve your functional capacity, your ability to be able to do things, to exercise, to be active, to do regular living exercises and activities to work, to go to school, that kind of thing. Also, we aim to improve some of the hemodynamics, some of the physiology of the pulmonary hypertension. The goal of that is to protect the rest of your body that might be impacted by the pulmonary hypertension. To protect your heart a little bit, to protect your liver, to protect other organs. 

    We want to try to prevent clinical worsening if we can. Sometimes some of the treatments we use, maybe they won't reverse the disorder, but they can help to prevent it from progressing so quickly. Overall, we want to improve your quality of life and we want to improve survival. Sometimes the treatment of the pulmonary hypertension isn't so much to treat the pulmonary hypertension is maybe to help treat the heart disease that led to the pulmonary hypertension. Then, sometimes the treatment isn't for noticeable symptoms that you have, but to prevent complications in the setting of heart disease, especially patients who might have surgery or a heart transplant. In general, the targets are really the physiology and not often the pathology because we're really limited in what we can do about the pathology itself. 

    The choices that we make for the treatments are going to depend on a lot of factors. For example, you know how severe your disease is, the more severe your disease is, the more aggressively we're going to use medications and other therapies. Sometimes it's going to be based on what we have available to you, what's approved for use in your particular situation. Often most of the medications that we use for children at least they're partially tested but not really labeled for use in children. So we might be a little bit limited in how we can use it. The root of administration matters. There are inhaled medications for example, that the devices that are used for the inhalation are a little bit difficult to use for people who maybe can't follow instructions to breathe them in or inhale them in the right way. Imagine trying to use an inhaler with a toddler, especially one that has to be used in a certain way at a certain frequency and things like that. So we might be limited in what we can use based on the root of the administration. 

    Some people don't tolerate side effects from one medication or another medication and then we make choices based on that. Sometimes there's a preference for one medication or another from the patient themself. We can always discuss what might work out better for you. Sometimes the experience with medications, especially for the kids, certain medications that we just have a lot more experience with than others. So our comfort level as physicians in using them, we might have a preference for one medication or another because we're just more familiar with it. We're more familiar with the side effects. We're more familiar with adjusting the doses. We're more familiar in what kind of efficacy we can expect. 

    We often use multiple medications because they target different pathways of the physiology of pulmonary hypertension. So you can often have an additive effect. So one medication may do a little, a second medication added on may do a little more. Sometimes together they can be better than either of the effects alone. There's also the setting of clinical trials. Most of the medications are approved for adults first. They're tested in adults first. The absorption of the medication is known best for adults. The metabolism of the medication is going to be known best for adults. But there's a role for clinical trials for children, even if the drug doesn't eventually reach approval, at least it gives some supervised and experience in using it in how to administer it to kids, maybe using it, the timing of the administration maybe could be a little different. The route of administration, whether it's pills or it's crushed or not crushed or mixed with water or not or taken with food or not. Things like that might be different for children than they are for adults, and a clinical trial can help to address some of those differences in the way that it might be used. 

    The clinical trials that we do for kids also are targeted to demonstrate the efficacy, because the reasons and the severity and features of the pulmonary hypertension in children might be different, so a drug that works great for adults maybe won't work as well for kids and we'll want to know that rather than just use everything that there is because there. We'll want to know that it's actually helpful.

    The current approved and available treatments for pulmonary hypertension work along three pathways. One is the nitric oxide pathway. Nitric oxide is a chemical that your body makes and it's a very powerful chemical that causes blood vessels to dilate. The next is the endothelium pathway. Endothelium is a chemical that's made by cells in your blood vessels and it causes a lot of constriction of blood vessels. Sometimes constriction of blood vessels is a good thing to happen in your body, but in your lung blood vessels, it's not as helpful. So the drugs that target this pathway are going to oppose the effect of the endothelium. Finally, there’s the prostacyclin pathway. Prostacyclin again is a chemical that's produced in your body and it affects blood vessels as well, causing them to dilate, but using a different part of the cell physiology than the nitric oxide uses. So you can use all three of these different categories of medications together because they're all targeting different parts of the constriction and dilation properties of blood vessels.

    The drugs that target the nitric oxide pathway are going to increase guanylate cyclase. They're going to cause a very direct vasodilation, which means that the blood vessels relax. They work particularly well for the lung arteries, especially if you just use the drug as an inhaled drug. In the hospital, we use nitric oxide inhaled a lot. You can put it through a ventilator or you can put it in a nasal cannula. We use it a lot in inpatients in the hospital. It's not something that can be used outside the hospital, but it's very quick acting because as soon as you breathe it in, it's going to have effect and as soon as you take it away, it stops having the effect. 

    More practical for use at home would be drugs that help to prevent breakdown of phosphodiesterase, which helps to prevent the breakdown of the guanylate cyclase and allows the nitric oxide to stay around longer. So the drugs that work in this pathway are Sildenafil or Tadalafil. Sildenafil was the first drug that was found. Some of the original marketing for that drug was for erectile dysfunction, but it also allowed for that drug to be developed and created for the use for a more rare disease, pulmonary hypertension, when otherwise there just wouldn't have been as much motivation for a drug company to make something like that. 

    Sildenafil is the first. It's a little bit more difficult to use than Tadalafil because Sildenafil has to be used three times a day compared to Tadalafil, which you can take once a day, but there are some patients who prefer it. The side effects are pretty similar for the two drugs, usually a little bit of flushing, sometimes a little swelling, but usually pretty tolerable. Very, very, very commonly used. These are very available drugs again because they're used for other disease, so they're very easy to get. Pharmacies always have it, and so it's a great drug to start with. 

    There's some drugs that also stimulate the guanylate cyclase. The newest one is called Adempas. The chemical name is riociguat. It's a newer drug, which had more recent approval. There's not much information about using it in kids, so my own experience with it is a little more limited, but it also works through the same pathway. So you'd use either Sildenafil or Tadalafil or the Adempas, but you wouldn't use any combination of those. 

    The next category are the endothelial receptor antagonists. They bind the endothelial receptors and so prevent that chemical from engaging in the blood vessels and causing that constriction. There's several of these drugs, Bosentan, Ambrisentan, and Macitentan. Of those three, the Macitentan is probably becoming much, much, much more common to use, especially for older children and adults. It's a drug that you can use once a day. The common side effects for that are kind of similar to what you see with the nitric oxide pathway drugs, which is things like flushing, headaches, but there's also a couple of other side effects that are a little more particular to this group of medications, particularly the Bosentan, which is some liver toxicity. So that's why when if you're taking particularly Bosentan, you have to have blood work done pretty frequently to monitor for toxic side effects. 

    You definitely cannot take these drugs while you're pregnant, so if you're entertaining a pregnancy, you need to discuss with your doctor about that, because they're particularly toxic to a fetus. While you take the drugs if you're a female of reproductive age, you're going to have to have pregnancy tests monthly. So it's a little bit cumbersome to do it, but most folks, once they've started to get kind of in the rhythm of going for their monthly pregnancy test, it becomes a routine and it's not as bad as it sounds when you kind of talk about it on paper.

    These drugs are dispensed by specialty pharmacies, because particularly they do need to monitor for pregnancy and things like that. They're a little more paperwork intensive for the prescriber, and so you're going to want to make sure that your doctor's invested in being able to manage this sort of process. If you could benefit from it, but your physician just isn't familiar with it or comfortable with it or registered to prescribe it, you may want to discuss with them if there's other centers to help to augment some of your care so that you can have access to some of these other remedies. 

    The next group of drugs act in that prostacyclin pathway, and there's a big variety of medications in this category. Again, if you use one, you're going to use only one from these categories. These are drugs that we tend to use in patients with a little bit more severe disease. We might use one of the drugs from the first two categories in patients with mild or mild to moderate pulmonary hypertension, but these prostacyclin analogs are going to be drugs that are going to be more in the patients who have more severe and significant disease. One of them is Treprostinil, also called Remodulin. It's used mostly intravenously or by a little pump that's injecting under the skin. It's kind of like the little pumps that they use for insulin if you've ever seen those. Those are maybe a little more commonly seen in people, but it's a little pump kind of like that. That drug can be used subcutaneously. The pumps take a little bit of maintenance and care. They're not very hard to use. They're dispensed by specialty pharmacies who have nurses and other people who can assist with using these pumps and things like that. If it's suggested, you don't have to be that intimidated by it, you're going to be supported in using it. 

    Again, the side effects are going to be kind of similar to some of the other medications, headaches, flushing, sometimes some diarrhea, rash, jaw pain. For particular drugs, maybe other couple of other side effects. The side effect profile is a little more common for these drugs, but then again, their efficacy for somebody with really severe disease is also going to be a lot higher. So that trade-off is usually going to be worthwhile. Epoprostenol is Flolan. That's only used by IV. That drug has been around the longest of all of these, so there's a lot of experience with use of it. Selexipag is probably the newer of all of these, also called UPTRAVI. It's an oral drug, which is kind of a game changer compared to using a pump or using IV. It's really great because it's much easier to administer if you can just use pills. 

    When you use it, you titrate the dose up. There's common maximum dose, but you can go up quite a bit if you need to. The same with the Treprostinil. This drug does not have a pediatric labeling at this point and not a really great pediatric formulation. It's tablets, but the tablets come in a fairly small dose and you use multiple of the tablets depending on what dose you're going to take of the drug. 

    There's a clinical trial that's about to close, the SALTO trial, so we'll probably have a much better idea of how to use it best in children. But right now we do use it in children because it is approved for adults and we can extend its use down quite a bit. It's not something that we're going to use in infants or really small children quite yet until we have a little more information about it, about how best to use it, and especially if there's a formulation like a liquid formulation or something like that.

    Iloprost is a little bit different medication. It's used quite a bit for adults, a little bit less for children because it's a little bit hard to use. It's an inhaled medication. You have to use it pretty frequently over the course of the day, usually six to nine times per day. It takes five to 10 minutes per inhalation, so it's a little bit cumbersome to do. For that reason, it's maybe a little less popular than the Selexipag or the Treprostinil. Just imagine trying to get you through your workday if you know six times during the day you have to take a 15 minute break to take out your little machine and administer the drug, but it is effective and sometimes it's a better tolerated way to use it.

    So in general, these drugs, because of how complicated they can be to use, they're going to be reserved for more severe cases. Sometimes we have to switch from one version to the other depending on if, for example, you have intravenous administration and you have a problem with a line infection or something like that, you may be best switching off to one of the other administration routes with one of the other drugs.

    Pulmonary hypertension that maybe is short term, maybe associated with acute illness or something like that, you might only use something like the Tadalafil or the Sildenafil because it will have effect pretty quickly. You can use it for a short time and maybe something will resolve or something will get better, and then you might not need it again. So it's easy on, easy off. Medications from the endothelium pathway tend to take longer to have any effect. So if you're in a sort of acute situation, it's probably not going to have its maximum benefit for a few months. If we encounter a patient who comes in with undiagnosed or previously undiagnosed very severe pulmonary hypertension, we might start with all three medications all at the same time. 

    We'll use the nitric oxide inhaled right away. We'll use the Sildenafil or Tadalafil right away and start the Bosentan and start maybe the Selexipag or the Remodulin. The Selexipag and Remodulin take a little time to ramp up sometimes between a few days and a few weeks, even a month or two, depending on the side effects and how quickly we can titrate up. The Bosentan tends not to have much effect right away, but over time it will. So a more minor situation where you can slowly ramp up medications, you might start with Sildenafil, Tadalafil, one of those two and maybe Bocentin or Macitentan, and see what you do for a few months before using the more difficult to administer drugs until you figure out that you're not getting as much effect as you need. So it could be any or all the above. 

    Finally, there are drugs about to hit the market, we hope. Sotatercept is a brand new drug. It doesn't work in these usual pathways that have to do with vasoconstriction and vasodilation. It works more in remodeling the blood vessels and the blood vessel growth. It alters the balance between some of the proliferation and anti-proliferation signals in blood vessel wall formation. So it restores some of the normal growth and cell function to the pulmonary arteries. It's not been approved for clinical use for pulmonary hypertension yet, so it is not going to be available right now. The company has projected that sometime during 2024 it will probably reach approval. The trial data is completed for adults and it looked quite promising. It was people who were already on at least one or two of the other kinds of medications, and even above any effect that they had had from the other medications, it improved the six minute walk test distance. That translates directly into a daily living kind of effect, which is really, really good for patients. 

    There's a clinical trial in children being developed, should be starting soon. This drug is administered by injection initially, it's every three weeks. The long-term use is not really well described yet. The drug, it's still a little bit too new. The trials that were performed to try to get the approval from the FDA to use it for pulmonary hypertension were trials that looked at effect at 24 weeks. So only about six months of use. So long-term effects aren't really well described yet. It's just a little bit too new. 

    So, there's a lot of medications to use for pulmonary hypertension. Experience with kids is a little bit less, but with experience with adults is quite good. There's a long track record for some of the medications, but new medications on the way. Overall, it's often helpful to use medications from multiple categories. So rather than have a one and done kind of treatment mentality, using cocktails of medications can be really helpful. Overall, if you have any questions, you can always reach out to me. 

    My name is Dr. Nancy Halnon and I'm aware that my patients are rare.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com #phawareMD @UCLAMCH

    Episode 446 - Nancy Halnon, MD

    Episode 446 - Nancy Halnon, MD

    In this episode, pediatric cardiologist, Nancy Halnon, MD, discusses treatment goals for pulmonary hypertension, the various routes of administration and the importance of using combination therapy to improve survival.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com #phawareMD @UCLAMCH

    Angela Bates, MD - phaware® interview 445

    Angela Bates, MD - phaware® interview 445

    In this episode, Angela Bates, MD from Stollery Children’s Hospital, discusses the importance of incorporating quality of life into the management strategies for pediatric pulmonary hypertension patients. 

    Dr. Bates also talks about the importance of allowing patients to engage in activities they enjoy, even with limitations imposed by their condition, and the need for a multidisciplinary team to provide comprehensive care. 

    My name is Dr. Angela Bates. I am a pediatric cardiac intensivist who also takes care of pediatric pulmonary hypertension patients up in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. I just wanted to talk a little bit about what I've learned over the past several years as I've embarked on getting to know these patients and their families. I think one of the things that patients have taught me the most about is how important quality of life is in incorporating that in terms of our management strategies. It seems a bit counterintuitive for the physician to be talking about quality of life because, really, it's around what the patients feel is in the best interest of what they see as a management strategy that fits into their lives as well as the families. But I think they've taught me a lot about how we strategize around implementing different medication therapies, even in terms of constraints of different activities.

    What I've learned, especially with some of my sickest patients, is how you really need to listen about what's important to them in terms of what fits into their family. And how do you manage different therapies, even different investigations, timing of those things? How does that fit into the strategy to take care of these patients to still optimize them to have the best outcome? I think those of us that take care of pulmonary hypertension patients, those of our patients that live with it, those of our families, their family members that have pulmonary hypertension understand that this is a really severe disease. It's really rare. There's a lot of people that don't understand, what pulmonary hypertension means. Every patient is so different and quality of life becomes the most important in the sickest of the sick. We know that the only cure for a true pulmonary arterial hypertension patient is lung transplant, which is its own disease ultimately. So you're sort of trading one disease for another disease.

    So I think it's really important, especially in pediatrics, whether they're five-years-old, 10-years-old, 15-years-old, is to really listen to the patient and understand what's important to them. Because ultimately, if these patients go on to survive to transplant or don't, what’s going to be most important is how was their day? Did they get to do things that made them happy? Did they get to spend time with family? So we talk a lot about therapies. We're very fortunate, I'm very fortunate to get to practice in the era where there's a lot of oral therapies. So we really strive to push the envelope with oral therapies. We push our pharmacy counterparts to really try to advocate for getting drug studies in pediatric patients, but ultimately having access to oral medications. Then we really push our friends with different medications, such as United Therapeutics with Remodulin to how can we best support these families at home?

    I work in an environment where we see patients from all across Western Canada. So some of these families live really remote. It's not, again, quality of life-wise, it's not always the best interest for these families to relocate to a big center. So we try to work with families to offer medications that seem a bit extreme to be in a remote area, but can we set them up with a really good family doctor, a really good pediatrician? How do we incorporate how often they have to come down for visits? That sort of thing. So all of these things become, I think, really important in terms of what is quality of life for these families and for these patients. Then the other thing I've learned about, especially when we talk about treating with prostacyclins and with things like Remodulin, is how do we allow our patients to still get to do all the fun things that they want to do?

    So we all know that with Remodulin that there's limitations, even with subcutaneous sites or with central lines on things like water activities, for example. So a lot of our families, they really want to try to incorporate, how do we still incorporate swimming? Some of them are brave enough to try things like being on a boat, water skis. People think that's crazy that your patients are doing this. But us in the PH world know that, no, that's not crazy because these patients, if they're feeling well enough to do all these things, how can we safely support them to do these things? So sometimes it's as simple as hooking them up with other families that have been down this road and they have little tricks and tidbits and salient points of how can you still get your kids to enjoy these activities safely? Also, it's about listening and saying, "I'm not just going to plug my ears and say, 'No, you can't do that.'"

    It's like, okay, well, I know you want to do these things. These are what make you happy in your life. How can we work with you to make those activities accessible and safe? Sometimes it's as simple as, okay, you know what? Let's time your new site start with a pool visit, for example, that sort of thing. So I think those are really important things. Then ultimately, we have a lot of patients that are quite sick, but they're at home. I think one of the other things that I've learned is, no matter what, if you can facilitate that patient to be at home, I think that is huge. It's in the best interest of the patient, of the family. I think that they eat better, they sleep better, they're happier. Then, just having an honest conversation with families about, okay, what happens if? What do we do if?

    Sometimes it's being really honest and saying, "Look, the safest place would be closer to the hospital. But you know what? You guys are not naive to this disease. You're not naive to the things to watch for." Maybe we do weekly check-ins with the families, for example. So I think there's a lot of meet in the middle things that you can do to enhance quality of life. Then, sometimes what I've been learning a lot is we have some oral medications, at least in Canada, where, through different funding avenues, we can get access to oral selexipag. So for those of you that are familiar with it, it's a non-prostanoid analog of the prostacyclin group. We truthfully don't know how does that compare and stand up to things like epoprostenol or treprostinil, Remodulin. But can we advocate for certain patients that, for example, if they don't tolerate sites for Remodulin or they need a break from their pumps for a while, can we safely trial something like a selexipag agent?

    So just having that conversation with families and just being honest that we're still learning about these drugs, I think, is also, again, a huge advocate for quality of life for these patients. There's a lot of times where we have patients that, for example, we know that it's safest to do things in hospital, but they're like, "Listen, I think we can manage this at home. This is not our first rodeo." So finding some sort of a middle road on what's safest for the patient, but also what works best for the patient and their family. So sometimes that meaning that's drug conversions at home, or maybe it means that you're doing some more, now that we've got lots of different venues to do telehealth, maybe we do a few telehealth visits.

    Again, that always makes us feel a bit more uncomfortable because we're used to seeing our patients in person. But I think as you get to know patients and families and you know how honest families can be with you and you've built that relationship, I think then building a telehealth into the practice of seeing your patients can be very useful. Then, I think the other quality of life piece that I've learned about is what is the best in terms of investigating our patients? So I think most of our patients will say, "ECGs, six-minute walk tests, echoes. Those are bread and butter. We can do all of that." You start to talk about things that might need sedation like cardiac MRIs or the big, scary cardiac catheterization. Now you're talking, well, higher risk if you're needing sedation. Of course, our cardiac caths, I mean, at least at our center, we do general anesthetics for all our pediatric patients. That comes with a bit of more anxiety for our families.

    So I think pushing the envelope as to how frequently do we need to do a cardiac cath? Can we get away with the least invasive test for a while if we've got enough data based on the other imaging and what we see with our patient clinically? Then, with cardiac MRIs, can you get away with using child life to help you instead of using sedation? I think those are huge benefits. So I think that also speaks to the need for a multidisciplinary team that really knows this patient. So it's not just the physician that's so important in treating these patients, it's the whole team. So that includes your nurse practitioner, your clinic nurses. A really important part of our team is the social worker, the child life specialist, right down to the person doing the six-minute walk test, whether it's a physiotherapist or an exercise therapist.

    We even have really invested members of the team on our research side of things that get to know the families. I think all of those people are so important in listening to the families, picking up different components that help you to, again, mold that treatment plan around what focuses on quality of life for that family. So I've really learned a lot from just taking in what my team also learns from meeting the families and the patients. It's really interesting in our center, even our echo sonographers get to know these patients really well and are invested. So I think that can be really important feedback. And how are our patients doing with this strategy plan? How are they doing in general? Does this fit with what their quality of life goal and vision is?

    Alongside that is when we have a really difficult decision with a family in terms of an intervention or a treatment strategy. So for example, we've had some of our patients that were listing for transplant, they're really sick, idiopathic pulmonary arterial hypertension patients, they're on triple therapy and oxygen. Some of them have had different interventions like Potts' shunts and we're waiting for lung transplant and they've got really bad scoliosis and they've got back pain, but also in terms of making them a better candidate for a lung transplant. So we have a really difficult decision about do we go for scoliosis surgery? So including in that discussion, members of your team that know the patient very well and your physician and your nurse practitioner, the parents, the child, but also your surgeons, your anesthetists. Those are also really important things, I think, in terms of, again, addressing what makes this a best quality of life for the patient and the family, but talking really honestly and openly about what are the risks to this patient?

    I think the one thing that I try to always impress upon with patients and families is that I'll always be honest with them. I think that's a really important strategy moving forward, even though some discussions are really difficult. But I think honesty is always the best policy. But that's saying, "I can't promise you what's going to happen in the future, but I can promise you I'm going to walk this road with you." I think that's the best we can do. We're human as practitioners, but our patients and our families are human. So I think, to me, that's provided the best way to implement some of these treatment strategies. Then, I've got a couple patient examples where I've dealt with where there's been scenarios where we've had to really work together to focus on quality of life. I think the common one, and I won't just say a specific patient, but just going back to activity.

    So I have patients that want to water ski, they want to play baseball, they want to play badminton, they want to play volleyball, they want to go on hikes, they want to go camping. Sometimes that's one patient wanting to do those all. I say, "Great. Okay. I think that's excellent that you want to do that. How do we do that safely?" So you're on a Remodulin pump, you're on Remodulin through a central line. Okay, so how can we do that safely? Even though, yes, ideally you don't ever want to think about putting a PICC line or anything close to water in terms of infection risk, that sort of thing. However, this is really important to this family. This is really important to this patient. How can we facilitate that? So the biggest thing I've learned is hooking them up with families that have been through this. They can give them different examples on how do you access different tools that can make the line safe or the site safe, for example?

    Then, just working with the patients to say, "Okay, look, you just need to know your body and listen to your body. So you need to promise me that when your body says, 'This is too much,' you take a break." Even some things as simple as oxygen. We all know that oxygen can benefit our patients, but sometimes it's as simple as, well, okay, I understand that you're a teenager and you don't want to wear your oxygen the whole time. But can you promise me that when you're walking up the stairs or you're walking between class, that you try to put it on as much as possible? Or if you feel like you need oxygen, you take a bit of a time-out to put the oxygen on. Those are simple things that, even though it's sort of meeting your patients in the middle, which I think is important, especially in your teenagers where they need to have some autonomy over their care.

    Then, even trips. So camping is one of them. So how do we facilitate making sure they have enough oxygen on their trips going to somewhere like Jamaica? I've had family members that want to go to Jamaica. Okay, well, what's a safety plan? Where do they go if they get in trouble? Do you have enough supplies? Providing them with a medical letter. I think those are all important things where instead of saying, "No, you cannot go to Jamaica." 

    To finalize things, I think what I've learned most from my patients is quality of life has to be at the forefront of all of our decisions that we make with families. Again, I stress making decisions with families. Our job is to provide the best care, but that also includes keeping in mind, what is the best strategy that works within the life of that child and that family. I hope that we continue to get better management strategies to make this less onerous on families. But until then, we'll work with what we have. And again, focusing on quality of life to really guide those therapeutic strategies.

    My name is Dr. Angela Bates and I'm aware that my patients are rare.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com #phawareMD @pphnet @PHACanada

    Episode 445 - Angela Bates, MD

    Episode 445 -  Angela Bates, MD

    In this episode, Angela Bates, MD from Stollery Children’s Hospital, discusses the importance of incorporating quality of life into the management strategies for pediatric pulmonary hypertension patients. 

    Dr. Bates also talks about the importance of allowing patients to engage in activities they enjoy, even with limitations imposed by their condition, and the need for a multidisciplinary team to provide comprehensive care. 

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com #phawareMD @pphnet @PHACanada

    Vinicio de Jesus Perez, MD - phaware® interview 444

    Vinicio de Jesus Perez, MD - phaware® interview 444

    In this episode, Vinicio de Jesus Perez, MD discusses some of the most recent clinical developments in the field of pulmonary hypertension, highlighting new and ongoing clinical trials that are of great interest to the medical community as well as caregivers and patients looking forward to novel ways of treating their condition.

    Good day to everybody. My name is Dr. Vinicio de Jesus Perez. I'm an associate professor and staff physician at the Pulmonary Hypertension Center of Excellence located at Stanford University Medical Center. I am a physician-scientist passionate about understanding the genetic and molecular mechanisms of pulmonary hypertension to identify new treatment strategies based on genetic and molecular targets.

    Today, I want to tell you about some of the most recent clinical developments in the field of pulmonary hypertension, highlighting new and ongoing clinical trials that are of great interest to those who work in the community as well as caregivers and patients who are looking forward to novel ways of treating their condition.

    I want to highlight a drug that has been in the public domain for a while, and many people, including patients and caregivers, have probably heard of it, called Sotatercept. Sotatercept is a new drug that has completed phase II and III studies. It is at the point of being evaluated by the FDA for approval, which means that this drug may be entering our treatment armamentarium over the next year or so.

    What this drug does, which is quite different from the other 14 approved drugs we are currently prescribing to patients, is that while all the other drugs are vasodilators, these medications relax the blood vessels, allowing more blood flow, Sotatercept targets cell growth, the buildup of cells that ultimately closes the lumen through which blood needs to flow.

    We believe in pulmonary hypertension that as the disease progresses, more and more of the cell-rich lesions build up inside the blood vessels. The vasodilators primarily target vessels that are still functional, and even though they may have some vascular changes, they can still be open enough so blood can be diverted through them and reach the areas involved in gas exchange. However, as the disease progresses, these vessels, too, become burdened by these lesions, and ultimately the number of vessels available to carry blood to the lung becomes less and less.

    Sotatercept takes a new paradigm, which is rather than working on those vessels that can still be dilated, it's targeting vessels that are already occluded with the idea that if we can melt away the cell growth inside the vessels, we can restore the patency and allow more blood to go in. That will work very well for the heart, because the right ventricle will not have to put so much effort into getting blood into the lungs to get oxygenated.

    Sotatercept is an injectable drug given every three weeks, one injection that goes under the skin.  It's also different from other injectables like Remodulin or Veletri, which must be given continuously.  

    How does Sotatercept work?  Its origins can be traced to the discovery around 23 years ago of the most common genetic mutations in pulmonary hypertension involving the bone morphogenic protein receptor two, or BMPR2.  This gene is crucial to control the growth and viability of cells across the vessel wall. Mutations that result in loss or dysfunction of these receptors are associated with abnormal cell growth that leads to pulmonary hypertension.

    This drug restores an imbalance in the cells, where activation through other alternative pathways overwhelms the lack of this BMPR2 signal. Sotatercept is a ligand trap that binds to the activin proteins and prevents them from triggering these abnormal or pro-PAH pathways, thus restoring balance.

    We now have two clinical trials that have reported exciting results and have increased hope that we are entering a new age in how we treat the disease.  What we have found is, to highlight the most relevant findings, number one, that even in patients that are being treated with three different therapies, the medication can add more significant benefit, both in reducing pulmonary pressures, increasing six-minute walk, reducing the risk predictors for mortality, reducing hospitalization, and allowing patients to be able to do more and expect more from their medications. I highlight that over 60% of patients in both trials already had triple therapy, including subcutaneous and intravenous. 

    This medication can be added to provide a benefit that's in addition that can potentially allow patients to be able to carry out and have a better functional status beyond what can be offered for the current standard of care. This medication was also studied in patients who are on dual therapy and can be added as a third line agent, or triple therapy, indicating that it could be used as a third-line or a fourth-line agent. Now the big question is:  How late or early can this drug be started?  Two ongoing clinical trials are precisely exploring that.  

    Beyond pulmonary arterial hypertension, what other indications could Sotatercept help with?  One of the unmet needs in the field is Group 2 pulmonary hypertension, the most common form of pulmonary hypertension, associated with left heart diseases such as left heart failure, valvulopathies, and pericardial restriction. We currently have no treatment for Group 2 PH. 

    There's an ongoing clinical trial called CADENCE, which explores the use of Sotatercept to offset the impact of pulmonary hypertension in these patients.  Having a medication that can help improve outcomes and quality of life in these patients will be revolutionary. 

    Another area where Sotatercept could be helpful is treating pediatric patients with pulmonary hypertension.  As you all know, many of our drugs have been studied in adults, and only some are studied in children, creating many conflicts when figuring out the best dose and regime. Sotatercept is being studied in pediatric patients, which is a refreshing initiative, since we need studies to look at that unique patient population.

    There's a lot of excitement around this drug.  As I said, the clinical trial data is quite compelling. The data is currently being evaluated to the best of my knowledge by the FDA for potential approval. We hope to see this drug in the clinic over the next year.  

    The other drug class that is currently being studied in clinical trials is what we call tyrosine kinase inhibitors or TKIs. The best-known is imatinib mesylate, which has been tested in Group 1 pulmonary hypertension. Unfortunately, the drug was plagued with significant side effects, including head bleeds, which ultimately resulted in not pursuing this drug further. However, the drug did meet its primary endpoint in the clinical trial (IMPRES trial). So how can we get all the benefits of imatinib while bypassing the toxicity, which will prevent our patients from getting the drug's benefits?

    Over the last five years, we have seen the development of imatinib and another drug within that class called seralutinib as inhaled agents that the patients can use to deliver the compound to the lungs, much akin to what we have now with Tyvaso. Recently, the results from a phase II study of seralutinib, the TORREY study, were reported. The primary endpoint for this trial was to determine whether the drug could reduce pulmonary vascular resistance, an important surrogate marker for phase II studies. In the data analysis, the drug did meet that primary endpoint, again in a patient population representative of our current PH standard of care.

    With imatinib, we also have data now showing that, indeed, as seralutinib, these inhalable compounds seem to be safe, which bypasses a lot of the anxiety and concern rates due to the previous results that we had, including the phase III imatinib study that I referenced previously. These drugs are built on solid preclinical data and already robust clinical data showing clinical efficacy. These inhaled tyrosine kinase inhibitors could target cell growth and mechanisms leading to vessel obstruction. Now these two are the most advanced of the medications under investigation. 

    I want to close by pointing out other clinical studies that are either enrolling or are close to completion. The first study is the anastrozole study, also known as the PHANTOM study. This study is built on the premise that estrogen metabolites can contribute to pulmonary hypertension and may explain why females are more prone to develop pulmonary hypertension. The hypothesis is that anastrozole, an estrogen synthesis inhibitor, may reduce circulating estrogen in both men and women, thus allowing patients to gather benefits. Promising early clinical data supports this concept. We await the final results of the recently completed clinical study.

    The other study uses a serotonin inhibitor called Rodatristat, also an oral agent. This agent can inhibit serotonin, one of the best-known and well-characterized triggers of muscularization and vessel remodeling. We have failed to be able to target this molecule because most compounds cross the blood-brain barrier. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter required for normal brain function. What Rodatristat does is that it shuts down serotonin selectively in the body while leaving the serotonin in the brain alone.   Rodatristat is currently in a phase II study that is now active, and we are excited to see what the outcome is.

    The last study I will point out is a stem cell study. It's relevant because many patients ask me where stem cells are in treating pulmonary hypertension. There's a study currently ongoing in Canada. This study is called the SAPPHIRE Study. It's been going around for the last five years, where endothelial progenitor cells extracted from patients' blood are genetically engineered to express nitric oxide synthase. In other words, the cells can produce a vasodilator allowing the vessels where the cells localize to vasodilate. Since these are endothelial progenitor cells, the idea is that these cells can differentiate into endothelial cells and potentially grow brand-new vessels, an important concept since one of the major pathological hallmarks in pulmonary arterial hypertension is a progressive loss of distal microvessels.

    The trial is still ongoing. There's data already, phase I data was published now almost 10 years ago, that showed that this approach was safe and beneficial. Still, given the small number of patients in that study, this particular study that's currently ongoing, seeks to provide more solid definitive proof that this approach is not just practical but also safe.

    We can talk about a lot, including other therapies currently in development, but I have concentrated on those at the most advanced stage of development. 

    Thank you all for listening.  It's always a pleasure to share my time with you all. Thank phaware, for giving me the opportunity and emphasizing that I’m aware that my patients are rare.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com #phawareMD
    @PHatStanford  @Viniciodjperez 

     

    Episode 444 - Vinicio de Jesus Perez, MD

    Episode 444 - Vinicio de Jesus Perez, MD

    In this episode, Vinicio de Jesus Perez, MD discusses some of the most recent clinical developments in the field of pulmonary hypertension, highlighting new and ongoing clinical trials that are of great interest to the medical community as well as caregivers and patients looking forward to novel ways of treating their condition.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com #phawareMD
    @PHatStanford  @Viniciodjperez 

     

    Peter Leary, MD - phaware® interview 443

    Peter Leary, MD - phaware® interview 443

    Peter Leary, MD talks about factors that might lead to over-treatment, under-treatment, or "just-right" treatment and emphasizes that guidelines are important but there is no "one-size fits all" approach to treatment of pulmonary hypertension. 

    Peter Leary is the director of the pulmonary vascular disease program at the University of Washington. He also has a PhD in epidemiology and is very interested in clinical and translational research for patients with pulmonary hypertension locally, nationally, and internationally. 

    Hi, I am Peter Leary. I am a pulmonologist in sunny Seattle, Washington, focused on pulmonary vascular disease. I direct the pulmonary vascular disease program up here in Seattle, and I'm also a scientist really focused on clinical and translational research for patients with pulmonary hypertension.

    I'm excited today to talk about treatment. So at the end of the day, the entirety of my life is really focused on ways to try and help make life better for people with pulmonary hypertension in their families. Treatment is really central in that entire discussion. There has been an increasing push really over the last several guidelines to think about whether or not we're under-treating patients with pulmonary hypertension. Are we not putting them on enough medication to get good control of their disease and really get as much as we can out of the current drugs that we already have developed in pulmonary hypertension?

    I think that that is an important push. I think that there is data that has supported that. But I think at the end of the day, it's also important to realize that treatment decisions in pulmonary hypertension are incredibly patient-specific. There is not a cookie cutter answer that says this combination, this drug, this approach is going to work for every single person that walks in the door. So my goal today is to really think about those treatment approaches, think about those treatment decisions, think about where we may do better as individual patient and provider groups and where we may do better as a field moving forward in terms of thinking about this.

    I think any conversation about treatment really starts with are you treating the right thing? If you're treating the right thing, then you know the roadmap moving forward. I cannot stress how important this is. I cannot stress how often this gets confused in pulmonary hypertension. I think there are a couple big situations where this happens. I think there's a situation where people think that they have PAH and they don't have PAH, or their physicians think that they have PAH and they don't have PAH. In that scenario, you can add all the treatments for PAH that you like as aggressively as you want to be, and you will get all the side effects of those treatments and none of the benefit, because you're not treating the disease that you think you are.

    I would say that I see patients every week as new referrals who have been started on regimens for PAH, have gotten a lot of side effects, don't feel any better. Really the answer is taking treatments away rather than adding treatments for PAH and then trying to get them plugged in with the right doctor for their disease, whether that be COPD or emphysema or left heart failure, or any of these other things that masquerade with high pulmonary pressures.

    Part of the reason why started with this group in a conversation about PAH treatment is I already said that there's been a push to be more aggressive with our treatments for PAH. Part of that has meant a lot of patients who don't have PAH getting put on aggressive treatments. I think it's important as you're working with your doctor, as your doctor is thinking about things that may or may not help you to keep central that sometimes the right answer is not adding therapy. Sometimes the right answer is taking it away. That is very patient-specific, very individual and hard to put into a single mold.

    Moving on from that and saying, "All right, do we have the right disease? It is PAH. We think that PAH drugs are going to help a patient with PAH." Now it gets into a conversation about whether or not someone is sick enough to need additional therapy and whether or not they're comfortable with those therapies. At the end of the day, every drug is part cure or part poison. It's going to have some things that help your heart, some things that help your breathing, some things that give you more energy and feel better if you're treating the right disease. Then it's going to have side effects, those things that make you feel crummy, that give you a headache, that make you nauseated, that give you diarrhea. Some patients are comfortable with their quality of life and their disease control, even if their numbers are not where we want them as a doctor and they're more willing to take on what we would call poor disease control than take on additional side effects. That is a delicate balance.

    I would say my job as a physician is to paint as realistic of a picture as I can and say, "Your disease may not be under as good a control as we like. These are the options we have. These are the side effects." I have a lot of patients who go on these medications, feel better and find the side effects to be very tolerable. But at the end of the day, this is a decision that patients and their families and their doctor all need to work together to make because there's nothing worse than going on a therapy that you were unprepared for the side effects, you feel miserable, you stop, and then you have not really succeeded. That tolerance for side effects is another big part of the decision about therapy.

    Then are you sick enough to need that therapy? We have a number of risk scores that people have developed over time. You can look at the REVEAL risk score, the ERS risk score and try and decide, does the disease warrant additional treatment? If your disease is under great control, you might not need additional treatment. So this is the big overarching bin of how we think about adding treatment, how really there's not a cookie cutter and how working together you can come to a place where everyone feels comfortable with the path they've chosen, whether that be more aggressive treatment or whether that be less aggressive treatment.

    That said, taking a step back, that's what I do in clinic. That's the individual patient that I'm looking at. That's the conversation that I have a billion times a year. Taking a step back and looking at this as a researcher, we look back and we say, you know what? There are a lot of people that have PAH, that have severe PAH and aren't on all the drugs for PAH that might make them feel better. The question is, why? Why is it that that is the case? I think that that comes into a couple different reasons.

    Some of them are the nuances of that patient-physician interaction than I just described. Patients that say, "Ah, you know what? I don't want another medication. I don't want more side effects." So some of them are "undertreated" with the disease, really thoughtful, well-reasoned decisions of why somebody might not choose to do something. I think that's very defensible. I think these personal decisions that you make with your physicians are incredibly important. I don't discount those in the least.

    Sometimes though it's not that. Sometimes it's that a patient or a physician doesn't recognize how serious their disease is or how advanced it has gotten. So one reason for undertreatment may be that people aren't seeing their physicians enough or their physicians aren't ordering the tests; six-minute walk, BNP, echocardiograms, that really can kind of help identify how well the disease is controlled.

    If you don't see how serious it is, it's very easy to fall into a mantra of, "Oh, I'm feeling fine," even if everyone around you knows that you're walking slower than you did last year, or you're walking less far than you did last year, or you're not really doing those activities that you wanted to do as much.

    So one reason why people are under-treated is failure to recognize that the disease has progressed or acknowledge that the disease has progressed. I think that's a gap that we should be working to correct. Part of that is being in a group and seeing a provider that really knows to say, "You know what? We need to check all of these objective metrics. It's a pain, but there's probably going to be blood work with every visit. It's a pain, but there's probably going to be a walk test with every visit. It's a pain, but there's probably going to be an echo at least once or twice a year. It's a pain, but sometimes we need to repeat that right heart catheterization." Really those are making sure we don't miss the fact that the disease is progressing and might benefit from extra treatment.

    Then I would say a final piece of really why people are undertreated may just be the fact that pulmonary hypertension as a field is still not where we want to be, but there have been a lot of developments that have happened over the last 10 to 20 years. So the reality is that there are a lot of physicians that don't even understand the full range of treatment options that are available in pulmonary hypertension. So really making sure that you're seeing a physician not only that knows what pulmonary hypertension is, that knows what pulmonary arterial hypertension is, but is also seeing enough patients with pulmonary arterial hypertension that they know all the treatments that are out there. They know the ones that are currently FDA approved. They know the ones that might be being studied. They know the ones that might be about to be approved, so that they can know to reach for those therapies.

    So I think that is kind of that third leg of the stool right there. A lot of that really hinges on being tucked in with a group that knows pulmonary hypertension, being self-aware enough to know what your goals are. Do you want to walk further, have more energy, feel better? Are you willing to take on some side effects with that to get there? Really just kind of being open to the idea that the disease might progress and that you might have to check in and the approach might need to change and your meds might need to change. These are hard things to do, but important things to do.

    That really kind of pulls it together for me. So when I think about treatment, it's really not a cookie cutter approach. I don't ever look at a patient and say, "Oh my goodness, why are they not on two drugs or three drugs?" I always start from the place of, is it the right disease? Is that disease under control? How does this patient feel about that balance between side effects and aggressiveness of treatment? I think that when you do that, you can't go wrong as long as you have a good knowledge and a good background of what treatments are available. I really think the only places where people go wrong are if either they or their physician don't recognize that the disease is getting worse or they or their physician don't know the range of options that might be available for treatment. Thank you so much for listening.

    I am Peter Leary, and I am totally aware that my patients are rare and awesome.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com #phawareMD @uwepidemiology 

    Episode 443 - Peter Leary, MD

    Episode 443 - Peter Leary, MD

    In this episode, Peter Leary, MD talks about factors that might lead to over-treatment, under-treatment, or "just-right" treatment and emphasizes that guidelines are important but there is no "one-size fits all" approach to treatment of pulmonary hypertension. 

    Peter Leary is the director of the pulmonary vascular disease program at the University of Washington. He also has a PhD in epidemiology and is very interested in clinical and translational research for patients with pulmonary hypertension locally, nationally, and internationally. 

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com #phawareMD @uwepidemiology 

    Sanjay Mehta, MD - phaware® interview 442

    Sanjay Mehta, MD - phaware® interview 442

    In this episode, PHA Canada Board Director, Sanjay Mehta, MD discusses the recently updated 2022 ESC/ERS Guidelines for the diagnosis and treatment of pulmonary hypertension, the gaps in understanding and the reasons why.

    Hi everyone. I'm Dr. Sanjay Mehta. I'm a respirologist, or pulmonologist for some of you in the US, and I have an interest in pulmonary hypertension. I've had the great honor and fortune of looking after PH patients now for 30 years of my career, largely here in London, Ontario, in Canada, but initially started my training in work and research in Montreal at McGill University. 

    Besides looking after patients, I'm very much involved in the community, had the great honor and privilege of working with six special individuals, patients, and families in 2008 when we founded PHA Canada, and just this year celebrated our 15th anniversary. I had the great honor of chairing the organization for five years, and I was recognized as an eternal friend of PHA Canada.

    Our task today is to talk about something very exciting in the PH community, and that's the new International Clinical Practice Guidelines for Pulmonary Hypertension, published in 2022 by a combined organization, the European Society of Cardiology and the European Respiratory Society. So what is a clinical practice guideline and why is that important to patients, caregivers, and the PH community? 

    You can imagine the wealth of research in medicine is unbelievable and fantastic, but no physician can keep up with all the literature that's being produced in terms of excellent quality studies on how best to diagnose and treat people with lung disease, pulmonary hypertension, heart disease, cancer. This is why for probably more than 25, 30 years now, the clinical practice guidelines have become so well valued and so widely used. What it is is a group of experts who work in an area, like pulmonary hypertension, get together, sit around a table or a Zoom call, and they review the literature in the last X years, two years, five years, and say, "Okay, what are we doing right now and what do we need to change in terms of how we look after patients?"

    So we're excited because just last year, 2022, we had a brand new set of clinical practice guidelines come out from the combined European Society of Cardiology and the European Respiratory Society. So two large societies, cardiologists and lung specialists, respirologists or pulmonologists, all of whom deal with pulmonary hypertension. What they want to do is capture today, in a massive document of 150 pages, what's the best way that patients with pulmonary hypertension should be assessed, should be diagnosed and should be treated? 

    It's very important to recognize these guidelines tell us what's the standard that we all should try to follow, not for every patient, but most patients. That's because patients are unique. You might not fill into the boxes that the guidelines tell me that patients fall into, so I'm going to adjust the guidelines a little bit based on getting to know you as a patient. Obviously, your preferences, your values and wishes, but also the nature of your pulmonary hypertension. So that's why we need guidelines and why we're very excited to have the 2022 guidelines. I should mention, this is an update from the previous ones in 2015. So seven years is a long time in the pulmonary hypertension world. A lot has changed, and that's what these guidelines are focused on. 

    Let's talk about a couple of the key changes to the guidelines. First and foremost, diagnosis. When we're trying to diagnose pulmonary hypertension, we depend on you to tell us your symptoms, you're short of breath, you're tired, you might have swelling of your feet and ankles, you might even have more worrisome symptoms - chest pain or lightheadedness or passing out on activity. All those things make us think about pulmonary hypertension. Then, we want to do some testing. It's very clear for many years that the first test of choice when you're thinking pulmonary hypertension as a physician or as a healthcare provider is an echocardiogram, or in brief, an ultrasound of your heart. This is one of the best ways to look at the heart and say is it working normally or not? Is there perhaps clues to pulmonary hypertension? And if there are, why might you have pulmonary hypertension?

    So for example, it not only picks up pulmonary hypertension, it picks up why you might have it, such as a bad heart condition, like somebody that's had heart attacks in the past and now has heart failure. Or if you have an issue with one of your valves, that can cause pulmonary hypertension. Or perhaps if you're born with a congenital defect in your heart, that can of course also cause pulmonary hypertension. If you have none of those underlying heart conditions, then I'd look to see if you have pulmonary hypertension, how bad is it? There's several features to that, and the newest guidelines have helped us to be even more clear about how we use the echo to assess a patient who might have pulmonary hypertension. There is no definitive answer yes or no. What the echo can tell me, and your provider, is your probability of pulmonary hypertension. Is it low, is it intermediate, or is it high?

    If you come in with symptoms, you're short of breath, you have some swelling, maybe other symptoms, you might have pulmonary hypertension, but many other conditions also give you the same symptoms. Lung disease like asthma can give you those symptoms. Of course, heart disease like heart failure can give you those symptoms. So the echo might say, "You know what? There's no pulmonary hypertension. The right side of the heart, which gets affected in pulmonary hypertension, is perfectly normal." So if all of those findings are not there, then I say, "You know what? You have a low probability for pulmonary hypertension." We can essentially stop there and not worry too much about pulmonary hypertension. 

    In certain patients, let's say you have scleroderma with a high risk of pulmonary hypertension, I might want to think about in six months, in a year, maybe repeating an echo just to make sure it hasn't developed because you're at high risk. That's important for certain categories of patients like scleroderma, like somebody that might have a family history of pulmonary hypertension.

    But for the vast majority of patients without any particular risk for PH, if your echo says you have low probability, we can stop there. It doesn't mean we stop looking after you. We have to figure out why you might be short of breath. Is there lung disease, heart disease? Do you maybe need to get more regular with exercise? Or do you need to work on weight to improve your breathing? Often, many patients come to us with those symptoms, the echo is not normal. So you do have some risk of pulmonary hypertension. That risk depends on a couple of things. What the actual pressure that's measured is on the right side of the heart. If it's very high, that's very suspicious for high risk of pulmonary hypertension, and we of course have to go forward and figure out why you have high pressures in the lungs and the right side of the heart.

    If the pressure is not so easily measured or it's not that high, but the right side of your heart is not normal, if the right side of the heart is enlarged, or if it's working poorly, or if there's a valve that's leaking, the tricuspid valve, all of those are called secondary signs of pulmonary hypertension. You may have pulmonary hypertension. So those are also suspicious that you are at risk for pulmonary hypertension, either intermediate or high. So in simple terms, if it's low risk on the echo or low probability, let's stop there, not think about PH too much. If there's other abnormalities that make you either intermediate or high probability, we're going to go forward and figure out if you have PH, and then if you do have PH, why you have it and how best to treat you.

    In terms of treatment, it's very clear we have excellent therapies for pulmonary hypertension for most patients. It's interesting that we don't actually change a lot more in terms of your background illnesses. For example, if you have scleroderma, it's important that you have a rheumatologist look after that, but that doesn't change so much what I do for your pulmonary hypertension. But there is a category of pulmonary hypertension where it's really important that we look after the underlying disease, and that's a disease that's being recognized more and more, patients developing pulmonary hypertension because of what's called the drugs of abuse, for example, methamphetamines. But this also happens with cocaine and other drugs of abuse. It is highly recognized that if you get pulmonary hypertension from those drugs, that I can treat you with the pulmonary hypertension medications I have available for anybody with pulmonary hypertension. At the same time, if you continue the drug of abuse, you're not going to do as well. You're going to remain unwell in terms of symptoms, in terms of heart failure, and your prognosis is not as good. There's a higher chance you're not going to survive.

    So there's good data and the guidelines recognize this and now strongly emphasize if you have pulmonary hypertension related, for example, to amphetamines, you really need to do everything you can to work on that addiction, to try to kick the addiction with all the resources around. Because if you can do that, it's an incredible advance in terms of your own quality of life, symptoms, heart failure, and your prognosis. So it's really important that those underlying conditions are being addressed, be they drug abuse, be they lung disease. Some people come to us with lung disease and they have significant PH. If you have sleep apnea, that needs to be treated.

    If you have low oxygen levels, either when you're sleeping or when you're exerting yourself, that needs to be figured out and probably treated with oxygen to allow you to stay well. So all these other conditions are important, and the general term we use is comorbidities. Morbidity means illness. It means patients are complex. They don't just have pulmonary hypertension, they often have other conditions, lung, heart, liver, scleroderma, and it's really important that we provide complex care and thorough care to help patients deal with all of their conditions.

    Let's talk a little more about how to assess individual patients. When you come to me, besides understanding you as a patient and your illness, I need to really think about one important thing, which is if you have pulmonary hypertension and I'm going to treat you, how aggressive am I going to be? We are lucky that we have multiple medications. I work in Canada where we have 10 different medications targeted at pulmonary hypertension. My colleagues in the US have 13 different medications, and various territories around the world generally have access to some medications, maybe not as many, but most territories and most patients have access to some PH targeted medications. 

    So how do we decide? Do I give you one, two, or three? The challenge is, again, looking at you as an individual and saying, "Okay, what's the chance that you're going to do poorly over the next year and longer?" That's an assessment of your own risk. What's your risk of getting worse? And of course, at the extreme of not surviving? If I believe based on you, the assessment of your symptoms, your echo, the catheterization, that you're at low risk for getting worse the next year and dying in the next year, I can be less aggressive. I don't need to give you three medications, because of course there's more cost and more side effects.

    Conversely, if you're high risk, and that typically to me means you have more than a one in five chance of not surviving the next year, I need to be as aggressive as I can. Typically that means three medications, one of which really should be an infusion therapy with prostacyclin analogs, either intravenous or subcutaneous, under the skin, continuously 24 hours a day. That's the most aggressive treatment we have right now. Three medications including infusions, and if you're high risk, you absolutely should be on that treatment. If we agree, the patient and us, that that's their goals, that they're able to look after all these medications, especially the complex infusions, and of course that they can tolerate the side effects that they might suffer from these medications.

    In between low and high there's an intermediate category, and that's important because it means you're at some risk, but not high, but not as good as low. So most people believe that we should be fairly aggressive in the patients with intermediate risk of doing poorly in the next year, and that means typically at least two medications, usually pills, which is advantageous and more convenient. Sometimes a third medication, especially after the first couple of months if you're not doing as well as we would like, both you the patient and us, the providers, and then very much considering whether you need to go on to infusion therapies as well. It is important. More aggressive treatment is clearly more effective in pulmonary hypertension. Two drugs are generally almost always better than one, and three drugs are often better than two.

    Yet some people still do very well on a single oral medication. There is a role for trying a single oral medication in patients with pulmonary hypertension, but typically those that are more complex. So yes, you have pulmonary hypertension, but you also have significant lung disease, either scarring of the lung called fibrosis, or underlying COPD from smoking or perhaps sleep apnea, or you have underlying heart disease, a little bit of heart failure, valve disease, atrial fibrillation. So those patients we define now as pulmonary hypertension with comorbidities. Those other important conditions that affect you from day to day, and that of course affect you in the long term. We recognize that being too aggressive with PH medications in those patients is not always better. You may not respond as well and you may indeed have more side effects. So that's a concern. So in those patients, one medication is reasonable with very close follow-up, reassessing you and your risk of getting worse very much within the first couple of months and then repeatedly thereafter.

    If you're doing well on one medication, fantastic. We're happy. We can continue to follow. If you're not doing so well, then it takes a discussion about available therapies, do we try a second one, do we switch perhaps? All of those of course are individual decisions based on you as an individual. But really important, this risk idea at the baseline, when you first get diagnosed, helps us determine what initial therapy we would recommend and what most patients would agree to. That risk idea is really important, not just at baseline when you get diagnosed, but also over time. So every time you get reassessed by your pulmonary hypertension team, your risk of getting worse the next year is reassessed. If you're responding to treatments and now you're low risk, fantastic. It means whatever treatment we agreed to and you're on is doing a good job and we can rest a little bit, monitor you carefully, but let you be active and then reassess you in three to six months.

    If you're not that good, if you're still intermediate risk, or worse, if you're in high risk, then I'm worried that you haven't responded well enough to the first treatments. We really need to be more aggressive. It should be recognized that most patients don't get to low risk. In fact, most patients stay intermediate. About 70% of all treated patients stay at intermediate risk, so that's not great. We also realized that it was such a big group of patients, it was hard to define in that group whether some were okay and some were not. So the most recent guidelines have for the first time said it's not robust enough or clear enough to just have low, intermediate, and high risk. Let's split the intermediate into two, intermediate low and intermediate high.

    So now we have four categories of risk. Low risk, still fantastic. Whatever treatment you're on, we're happy. High risk, of course not very good. We want to think about being aggressive, infusion therapy or transplant. Similarly, if you're intermediate high, that's not good. Your chance of getting worse is quite significant, at least 10, perhaps 20% over the next year of not surviving, and we really want to think of you like a high risk patient and be as aggressive as possible with treatment. Conversely, if you're intermediate low, not as good as low but not bad. So there we have to make a judgment call. If we think you want to be more aggressive and we think we can be more aggressive with treatment, then fantastic. We have options available. If you on the other hand are comfortable, you feel better, and you're worried about the side effects of adding a third medication, then we can allow you to continue on, monitor you very closely, and see if you stay intermediate low, things aren't too bad, definitely don't want you to get to intermediate high, which might happen.

    So this framework is a little more robust, a little more discerning of how patients are doing between low to high risk and really help us fine tune the medications that we have available to help you. It is important that the risk is not complicated to figure out. It depends on our assessment of you essentially at the bedside in the clinic. How are you feeling? Are you short of breath when you do your everyday activities? Can you walk up a flight as stairs comfortably? If you can do your everyday activities quite comfortably, then I'm not so worried. That's generally tending to be low or intermediate low risk. If you can't do those activities, then I'm a little more worried. Similarly, I test your capacity on a six minute walk test, and if you can do quite well on the walk test, ideally more than 440 meters, that's an excellent prognosis because you're low risk.

    If you're pretty good, over 350 meters, but not perfect, that's still not bad. Clearly as the six minute walk distance falls, especially under 150, under 165, that's concerning. So all these things have very simple gradations, but they're very simple tests to do in the clinic. The final one is a blood test, and many of you might have heard of this blood test called BNP [Brain Natriuretic Peptide], and there's a derivative form called NT-proBNP, which is even better. In simple terms, we all have this floating around our blood, but at low levels because we're not in heart failure. In patients with pulmonary hypertension, if you're in right-sided heart failure, or specifically right ventricular heart failure, the BNP levels in your blood go up. So the guidelines have defined four categories. If you're under 350, low risk, up to 650, intermediate low risk, over 650 I'm worried, and over 1,100, that's really worrisome for high risk, that you're in bad heart failure and may not do well over the next year in terms of prognosis.

    So fairly simply in the clinic at the bedside, your symptoms, which we put together as the functional class, WHO or NYHA, your six minute walk distance, and the BNP together, three parameters help me understand your risk from visit to visit and very appropriately adjust treatment based on all the wonderful treatments that we've developed. 

    Talking about treatment, one of the things I've always believed personally and recommended to all my patients is exercise. There have been recommendations that most patients with pulmonary hypertension should be performing some kind of regular physical activity. Of course, we're cautious. Many of you know that when you push yourself too hard, you get lightheaded, you get dizzy, you may even pass out, and you may get chest tightness or pain. Those are all bad signs. The heart's not happy or the brain's not happy. All of us agree you should never push on exercise to get any of those symptoms. And yet getting short of breath on exercise is not dangerous. It's good for me, I try and do that regularly, and it's good for all of you. 

    The new guidelines in 2022 absolutely emphasize this. A strong recommendation that all patients with pulmonary hypertension should be assessed for regular exercise therapy, either as part of a rehabilitation program, where it can be monitored, or under the guidance of your pulmonary hypertension team, and then doing the exercise on your own, within those limits of not pushing hard enough to get worrisome symptoms. There's no question that regular exercise can improve your sense of wellbeing, your symptoms, clearly your exercise capacity improves, and there's even a sense that your long-term prognosis can improve. So I think it's really important that exercise rehab is now a strong recommendation.

    Other recommendations that have changed, importantly, is one that is now recommended to not generally do in PH patients, and that's treatment with blood thinners or anticoagulants. This has a long history of use in pulmonary hypertension. In fact, 25 years ago it was one of our only treatments for patients with pulmonary hypertension, and there are studies that people, in fact, on blood thinners did better. Prognosis was better, survival was better. The studies were never fantastic, and that was important, the limitation. More recently, some larger studies have been done, both European and American, and have suggested that the benefit of blood thinners is not so marked as it used to be, and largely because we have so many other wonderful therapies. So if you're on PH targeted medications, it's harder to show that another medication like a blood thinner also has a benefit. So guidelines are fairly strong, saying most patients should not be treated with blood thinners. There are a small number of patients that you might want to consider specifically.

    For example, if you've had blood clots, then yes, you should be on a blood thinner. Even if you've had surgery, pulmonary endarterectomy for blood clots caught causing pulmonary hypertension known as CTEPH, [chronic thromboembolic PH], then you should be on blood thinners indefinitely and likely lifelong. But the vast majority of patients who have not had blood clots and have PH from other reasons, like scleroderma or idiopathic, without a cause, really should not be on blood thinners, largely because of the risk of bleeding, which is significant over many years. 

    In terms of other treatments, we've chatted about the fact that most people should be on two medications. Some need to go on to three medications if they're not doing well on two. So the question often arises is if I have 10 medications and there's multiple options largely in three different families of medications, why should patients simply not just be on one medication from each of those three families targeting all the pathways which I can target to make your pulmonary hypertension better?

    That's a reasonable question. Should we be really aggressive upfront, give you three medications, and get you the best we can for the long term? So this has long been a discussion point in the pulmonary hypertension world, and an excellent study called the TRITON study in the last few years did assess exactly that, taking patients with newly diagnosed pulmonary hypertension, specifically PAH, pulmonary arterial hypertension, so not clots, not lung disease or heart disease, but idiopathic, heritable, perhaps related connective tissue disease, and saying, "Let's give all of you two medications. And in half of you, let's give you a third medication." I should emphasize, all of those are pills. So either two pills or three different kind of pills every day. And then do you do better if you're on three medications from the beginning?

    Well, the study was excellent, and it showed that everybody did very well in that study, either on two or three different pills over the first three to six months. There wasn't a big difference between the two groups until you looked at later, one or two years, where it seemed that maybe patients on three different medications did a little better, possibly. This was not a strong endpoint like the others. So the guidelines looked at this carefully and said, "You know what? It's very clear that two medications in the beginning are very effective." So the vast majority of patients do not need three medications. So we do not recommend starting three. Let's start two in essentially everybody, and then monitor carefully for the first three months, then six months. If you're not doing as well as you would like or as I would like, based again on that risk, then we can easily add a third medication. So very important that right now, most people do not need to start on three medications.

    The final thing in the guidelines I think is really important to recognize is what's the recommendation for the care you receive at the PH centers that you go to? It's very clear that PH centers often give the best care because of the expertise of the physicians, the very important collaboration of other healthcare providers, especially PH focused nurses, as well as often pharmacists, physiotherapists, and our colleagues, other physicians that help us, rheumatologists, radiologists, sometimes surgeons. That is the best care for PH, which is very well recognized. 

    It's also clear that all patients in a PH center probably should participate in some registry, a patient registry. What does that mean, a patient registry? Well essentially it means using a tool to collect your data on you as a person, your age, your sex, the kind of PH, the severity of PH, the treatments you're getting, and how you're doing with your PH over time, and collecting that data together with all the other patients at your center and all the other patients at the other PH centers in the country, in the US, in Canada, and why not globally?

    So such PH registries are being set up, are being populated with data from around the world already. So the US has one funded by the Pulmonary Hypertension Association, Canada has one called CPHR, and there's a couple of very large registries in Europe, COMPERA, as well as the French registry. The key is this, it's just a tool. If we have all that data on you and your kind of pulmonary hypertension and how you're doing, we can then use that to do research and say, "How are patients doing? Are they doing well enough? Are they doing better in this country or that country or on these medications or those medications," because maybe perhaps there's a better medication that people aren't using or others are using. So all of those provide important answers to questions that may be not as easy to do in just a simple research study.

    So this is an example of what's called real world data or real world evidence. Collecting data on actual patients, actual treatments, and what's happening in practice. That's very important. We have very, very good studies in pulmonary hypertension called randomized controlled trials. I take a bunch of patients, half get treatment A, half get a placebo or treatment B, and that teaches me something. But it's not the same thing as collecting data on thousands or 10,000 or 100,000 patients, which is what patient registries can do to provide even more evidence. So that's a strong recommendation from the guidelines. Relatedly, they also recommend that PH centers should collaborate with their local PHAs or pulmonary hypertension associations. Now hopefully all of you are connected with your local PHA. We have a fantastic PHA Canada, PHA in the US, and there's PHA Europe, PHA UK, as well as many others in the world.

    Those organizations are incredibly important because their mission usually, most importantly, is looking after you, the patient, and your caregivers, your family and friends, educating you about pulmonary hypertension, supporting you, advocating for you with government, with media, making sure you have access to medications that can help you if they're not all approved in your local territories or countries. As well, they all have individual purposes. Sometimes it's as simple as connecting patients and caregivers together, in conferences or webinars or zoom sessions, where you can see other patients that are dealing with the same issues you are and you don't feel as isolated, which many patients with PH when they first get diagnosed feel, when they think nobody else that suffers with the same thing because they've never heard about it. That is not true, as you know, when you connect with a PHA, which teaches you that many, many others are affected and want to connect with you and help you deal with your illness.

    So the guidelines 2022, not the last version, there's going to be more. But the most recent, the most current, the thorough, and the most exciting for the best guidelines, advice to me as a physician and others around the world on how best to diagnose PH patients, how to follow them, how to assess them, and how to manage them. In the end, all we want is the same thing. We want you to have the best quality of life for as long as you can, and to live as long as you can with the medications and approaches we have to treatment. So very important that you understand that, because guidelines are not written for me, they're written for me to help you, and it's a really neat idea that patients understanding guidelines can improve their care.

    If you go to your physician and say, "In my situation, what do the guidelines say that I should be on treatment wise, or what should I be having testing wise," that might challenge your doctors and your PH teams to say, "This is good. I like this collaboration between this patient and family, understanding that the guidelines are important and that there are other avenues to improve their care. So that partnership, you advocating for yourself, critically important, and guidelines can help you do that. It's been a pleasure as always to chat with you all. 

    I'm Dr. Sanjay Mehta. I have the great honor of being a pulmonary hypertension doctor, and that's because I'm aware that my patients are rare.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com @phacanada  #phawareMD

    Episode 442 - Sanjay Mehta, MD

    Episode 442 - Sanjay Mehta, MD

    In this episode, PHA Canada Board Director, Sanjay Mehta, MD discusses the recently updated 2022 ESC/ERS Guidelines for the diagnosis and treatment of pulmonary hypertension, the gaps in understanding and the reasons why.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com @phacanada  #phawareMD

    Karina Macias - phaware® interview 441

    Karina Macias - phaware® interview 441


    Pulmonary hypertension pediatric care partner, Karina Macias, discusses her son Tito's PH journey and why she dedicated her life to becoming a certified nurse assistant. Tito was named Stanford's Race Against PH 2023 Pediatric PH Courage Award recipient. #raceagainstph @phaatstanford

    My name's Karina Macias, and I am from Central Point, Oregon.

    I have two kids. My first son is Alexis, a 17-year-old. My second son is Tito, who's 15 at the moment, and he's the one with pulmonary hypertension. I do have a background in the medical field due to the fact of what I've gone through and Tito goes through all these medical issues. I pursued my career in becoming a CNA 2 (certified nurse assistant) at the moment. I am trying to become RN, LPN. Just learning with this pulmonary hypertension situation is very interesting. It's scary.

    I was 19 years old, a very young mom, when I had Tito. They had to induce me because he wanted to bake a little bit longer in the oven. This thing we found out with Tito was, at two weeks old, he was having discoloration, dark coloration underneath his feet, which were purple. We took him to his two-week checkup, where we found out that his oxygen levels were at 32%. Our doctor kept putting the little oximeter around his little toe, his finger, his ear, and our readings just kept getting lower and lower. We knew something severe was wrong with Tito at two weeks old, so they decided to admit us to our NICU.

    That night, we found out that something was wrong with his heart. We weren't quite diagnosed with a medical situation, but he was flown up to Emanuel Children's Hospital in Portland, Oregon. I couldn't fly with him due to the fact that he was so severely sick. There were about three nurses and two doctors that had flown down from Portland to come pick him up from Medford and fly him back up. That night, it was just the worst a parent could ever hear. They had to end up doing some type of heart surgery. Where that came from was that he had a right pulmonary artery that was very thin. They had to enlarge it because he wasn't receiving enough oxygen to the right side of his lungs. He was not getting enough oxygen to breathe. That's why his lips were purple, his feet were purple. His little fingernails were a little gray-looking color. We knew something was wrong. They ended up saying, with his heart condition, it was going to be fixed.

    Little did we know that three years later they were doing an echo every year for his birthday, and on his third birthday, we found out that there was pressure in his lungs. We were here locally at one of our clinics, where our team came down from Portland to do ultrasounds on him and do an EKG. We ended up being flown back up to Portland because Tito had just been diagnosed with these pressures that were so high, which was making his heart rate so much higher at being only three years old. As we were up in Portland dealing with his situation, we did find out that the doctors that had done his heart surgery didn't know how to treat his diagnosis because they'd never had a patient with pulmonary hypertension.

    We were doing our homework, doing our research in the internet, looking for doctors for the symptoms that he had, who we could see, maybe another doctor in Oregon, or see where we could be headed towards. But they did get him started on sildenafil, which is a drug that they use to allow the blood flow through the body. Tito was started at 30 milligrams at just three years old, and that was a little too much for him.

    As they were trying to figure out what was wrong with him, we were in the ER for a whole month after because his medication was just enlarging his liver. We were getting no results. Nothing was changing. He was actually getting worse. I kept doing my homework on the internet, just searching for doctors, looking for who could help me. We found a doctor in Bend, Oregon, so our doctors ended up sending a referral to that doctor, and that doctor from Bend, Oregon referred us to Stanford.

    Three days later, we were in Stanford. All these medical records already had been sent to them. We didn't know where we were headed. All I knew was that my heart hurt for my child because of how severely sick he was, and all I could do was hold my child who was crying day and night, day and night of stomach pain because he was tired. He couldn't even walk. Being as little as he was, he couldn't walk even from the bathroom, just to even have any energy to play at his age. He just wanted to be held and be asleep.

    We get to Stanford, and our doctors confirmed that he had moderate to severe pulmonary hypertension. They had to do lots of testing, of course, lots of echos, lots of EKGs. They did some labs. They did CT scans. MRIs they couldn't quite do it just because of how unstill he was and how little. So they confirmed the pulmonary hypertension.

    He was diagnosed around four years old. We got him started on TYVASO, which was a breathing treatment. We got him started on digoxin. They got him started on sildenafil, which they lowered his dose. We ended up starting on a Remodulin pump. So all these little bumps on this road just to deal with his pulmonary hypertension has just been something that we've learned throughout the process, how to care for him, what to look out for. Let me tell you, just any little thing with these kiddos even having a cold, we just got to protect them because they're very delicate flowers.

    Pulmonary hypertension is something that's scary. We're sitting here just dealing with his diagnosis now, medically, just with medication. Last year, we were told that he was not a candidate for a transplant due to the fact that he's also got another underlining health condition called Von Willebrand Disease Type 2, which is a bleeding disorder.

    With the bleeding disorder, with the transplant possible heart and lungs, which they were trying to do with Tito, just the fact of trying to even put him under the knife just sedating him, I think that's just the number one risk for him. Let alone, just trying to open the chest cavity and removing the organs and all the extra stuff that these special surgeons do, it's just too risky for him. So we are just praying maybe there's more medication to come out and just taking it day by day with him trying to keep him, we say, in a bubble, just so that he just doesn't get what is out there in the times of the flu, the cold, the COVID, even though he's caught COVID twice. It's just something we get to learn every day with him. With pulmonary hypertension, you learn something new every day.

    When we were first diagnosed at four years old, we saw Stanford, I want to say, almost every three months. They got us started on medication, and then they wanted to keep seeing us constantly to see if Tito's symptoms would get better. Throughout the years, as we've been following them for, I want to say 11, 12 years now, we do follow up with them twice a year, and there's been times where we have been flown down to Stanford in emergency cases here from our local hospital due to just little emergencies that we've had. One was his COVID. The other one was, he gets these bloody noses that we can't stop sometimes the bleeding, and we have to go to the ER. They infuse him. They clot his blood. There's been certain situations where he's had colds and he's coughing up blood and all this phlegm. It's just the fact that he's so prone with the hard coughing that he breaks all these little blood vessels in his esophagus, and they fly us down immediately.

    Our treatment within the years has just been medical with medication, where they've up-dosed his medicines twice a year as we go to see them in the summertime. Then the other time is right before he goes to school, which is in the fall. We go to have a follow-up. With Tito's situation, as we're current right now, his pressure and his lungs are still high, but he's stable, stable enough to where he can have daily activity to where he limits himself.

    Throughout the years as we've been being followed with Stanford, they've just increased his meds a little more as we go each year, and right now we are at max therapy with a couple of his medications, but we do have the hope that within the next year or so they will have something new coming out. As they're doing trials on adults, they do see some positivity to treat children now with pulmonary hypertension. So that's one of our hopes for us to start on these meds when they come out and they're approved by the FDA to prolong his life a little longer with these medications. So that's where we're at.

    When I was in school, and it started in the sixth grade, I did my sixth grade career report was a registered nurse. It followed me through when I was in middle school, my seventh year in middle school, my eighth grade, up until I was a junior in high school. I ended up doing all my reports on a registered nurse, so the medical field has actually always caught my attention. I didn't know I was going to deal with such a serious diagnosis with my own child. It's just really caught my attention to where I myself just to care for my own child, I just keep learning on how to take better care of him, what to look out for.

    We have had a couple of scary episodes where he coded in the cath lab. So all these things that you see, they do happen. I didn't know it would end up happening to us, but I sit here and I just soak up all this information. I just want to learn more and more every day so that I can take better care of him. It's just been something that I've always been so interested in.

    I feel for the families because I know what it's like to be in that situation. I've been in the hospital with my son for weeks, for a month, which is the most we've been in the hospital with him. I just want them to receive the care that they deserve. Even though it's not in the pulmonary hypertension field, but I still feel for my patients because I would want them to be taken care of as I would take care of my own kid, even if it's an adult, if it's a child.

    We do, rarely, on our floor, have some young adults, and we have seen some critical situations where their diagnosis is life-threatening. It's hard to not take that too personally knowing that I myself have to come home to a very sick child, which, on a daily basis, he does great and he's stable at the moment, but my son is on the back of my head when I get to see something because we do deal with postmortem care, all that type of situation. I just do what I can because I know that in my job scope and whatever I can do as a CNA 2, I will be able to take care of that patient how they're needed to.

    My name's Karina Macias and I'm aware my son Tito is rare.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com 

    Episode 441 - Karina Macias

    Episode 441 - Karina Macias

    In this episode, pulmonary hypertension pediatric care partner, Karina Macias, discusses her son Tito's PH journey and why she dedicated her life to becoming a certified nurse assistant. Tito was named Stanford's Race Against PH 2023 Pediatric PH Courage Award recipient. #raceagainstph @phaatstanford

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com 

    Mitesh Thakrar, MD - phaware® interview 440

    Mitesh Thakrar, MD  - phaware® interview 440

    Mitesh Thakrar, MD is a Clinical Associate Professor at the University of Calgary and the current Deputy Medical Director of the Southern Alberta Transplant Program. In this episode, Dr. Thakrar discusses titration of pulmonary arterial hypertension therapeutics.

    My name is Mitesh Thakrar. I'm a pulmonary physician based in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. I've been a pulmonary hypertension specialist and a lung transplant specialist now for about 12 years there. I work primarily at the Peter Lougheed Centre and Foothills Medical Centers in Calgary looking after patients that have both PAH as well as lung transplant.

    Today, a really important topic for us to think about and talk about is titration of our medications. Why we pick which drug we pick. Why we have different doses of our medications. What does that mean for a patient. And to just give an overview of what's available to us in the sphere.

    One caveat is that, in Canada, we have a certain list of medications that may not be reflective of what's available in other countries. There are some medications available in the United States, for instance, that we don't have access to. So, what I'm going to offer you today is fairly Canadian-centric protocols and procedures that we follow. When I was training in the UK, we had a totally different way of doing things. I think the wonderful thing about pulmonary hypertension and the small community we have. We all get together and we talk about why does my recipe work better than your recipe or vice versa. Then, we start to converge on recipes that seem to work for a lot of our patients. We can talk a little bit today about why we do what we do and why we pick what we pick.

    The first step of pulmonary hypertension management that we think about is obtaining the right heart catheterization. You'll hear us talk a lot about right heart catheterizations, or RHCs. Right heart catheterizations give us the data of what you look like in this moment in time from the inside, the part that we can't measure. We can measure a blood test called an NT-proBNP that tells you how stretched out your heart is. We can measure your six-minute walk test. But we can't measure the pressure in the heart in a reliable way. An echo is not bad, but really the right heart catheter tells us that.

    The right heart catheter also tells us potentially if you are in the very, very small group of patients that are what we call a vasoresponders. Those are patients who normalize their pulmonary pressures when we apply nitric oxide for a period of time. Those patients we have often and treat very, very differently. We put them on high-dose calcium channel blockers. We can essentially put them into remission from their disease for many, many years. But I think the right heart catheter also offers us some insights as to how one may actually respond to our conventional pulmonary vasodilator medications.

    We have three groups of medications. We have those that work on the prostacyclin pathway. We have those that are working on the endothelium and then those that work on the nitric oxide pathway. What I do personally is, if I see a patient who's improved a modest amount with nitric oxide, that tells me that that nitric oxide pathway is ripe for the picking. It's the pathway we want to focus on first and foremost in terms of improving pressure.

    The other thing that the right heart catheter can tell us about response to treatment is, again, the severity that we might see. If a patient comes into the right heart cath lab and they have very, very severe hemodynamics, now that might inform me to tell me that, hey, this is a patient that I probably want to get on three drugs right away as opposed to trying two oral medications. Those are the kinds of decisions that we make right then and there while we're in the cath lab.

    Once we get out of the cath lab, now we have a discussion with the patient. We've got two different options for PDE5 inhibitors. We've got riociguat in the background as well, which works in the same pathway. Which one are we going to pick? Similarly, with our endothelial receptor antagonist, we've got three different options available there. If we're thinking about a prostanoid, we've got a subcutaneous version, an IV version. How are we going to pick these things?

    The next step is to talk to the patients. We usually come up with a mutually agreeable solution. There are some medications that require really no titration. You're either on them or you're not. I personally like using those medications up front because there is no titration of some of our medications. Now that's great if you have really no other comorbidities, you have no other issues, you've just shown up with pulmonary arterial hypertension. But sometimes, we can use the titratable drugs to our advantage. We can say, "Well, I don't know, you might get side effects. I'm worried about those side effects and how you'd tolerate those side effects.” So maybe we use a drug where we're starting at the half dose because that's what we're supposed to do anyways. We're going to titrate you up. That gives us time to see if at a low dose are you going to have a side effect. If you don't, then we're slowly building up these drugs.

    Examples of those would include older oral medications like bosentan or ambrisentan. Some of our newer medications like riociguat or selexipag would do that, and all of our prostanoids work that way when we titrate them up. Depending on the patient in front of me and how severe their disease might look in the cath lab informs whether I want to use a titratable drug or an on-off kind of medication.

    One of the other things that I think about when I'm starting a medication is what is the chance that the patient is actually going to be able to undertake the therapy we're going to propose. One of the biggest examples of that is, unfortunately, we still get patients who show to our clinic with very, very, very severe disease. The sickest of the sick. Very severe pulmonary hypertension. Now, the guidelines will tell you, "Well, you should start this patient on triple therapy including a parenteral prostanoid. They should go on to either Caripul or Remodulin, so a continuous infusion of something.

    Now, you have a patient in front of us that we've never met who has a very severe disease, and we're going to commit them to a 24-hour a day therapy. Many of these patients are young who, up until they showed up, didn't have a diagnosis, didn't have a disease. They've never been sick a day in their life, and now you're giving them this life-altering diagnosis and life-altering treatment. So it does become a real challenge in some cases to identify patients in whom this is going to be a safe, long-term option.

    Some of these patients are going to either willfully or un-willfully choose not to engage with that therapy. It becomes potentially even more dangerous to have used it. That's a tricky space because you want to offer the best treatment, you want to offer the treatment that's going to improve their function and keep them alive, but we don't know. Are they going to be able to adhere to that and stick to that in the long run? That patient population is a coin-flip, to be honest. It's almost impossible to predict what's going to happen.

    A more traditional way that we get onto parenteral prostanoids, these are patients who you've known for a long time and, unfortunately, their disease continues to progress on our conventional oral therapies, and now we're having discussions about parenteral prostanoids. These patients you've known for a while, so we have a sense of understanding of what we think they're going to be able to do and not be able to do. The patients also have now developed their own resiliency and their own education about their disease. We have some patients that will just tell you, "No way, no, how am I ever going on a parental prostanoid," and the conversation ends.

    I think a more typical conversation we have with those patients is they say to you, "No way, no, how," and then you say, "Yeah, but can we talk about that? Here's why I think there's a 'yeah, but' to that and why maybe I can get you through this. We can support you." That's the key is for the patients to understand that they're not doing this alone. They're incredibly supported with our clinics. Once they start to understand what that support is, and you do it piecemeal, you start with, "Here's what the pump looks like. That's all you got to learn today. It's just what the pump looks like," and the next day is, "Here's what the drug looks like. Here's the vial. Here's how you draw it up." You just do it piecemeal. We find that we can get most of our patients that we've built that rapport and relationship onto a parenteral prostanoid quite successfully.

    Which one you pick? That is often driven by the patient. There are some patients that are incredibly worried about the line that is required with epoprostenol and say, "No. An IV infusion is not for me. I'd rather the subcutaneous one." Others are worried about the pain that comes with subcutaneous infusions and they say, "I'd rather have the line." Those discussions are a bit more nuanced, but most of the patients that we've known for a while we can get them onto these titratable drugs.

    Again, we remind them that, "We go very, very slow and will increase the doses as your body allows it and as you feel comfortable with. We're not in a huge rush. We don't have to have them on this drug tomorrow. We've got time." It's an easier conversation to have. It's a somewhat easier group to manage than the ones that, like I said, come in de novo. You've never met them. They're deer in the headlights themselves and are really just trying to wrap their head around the fact that they're going to be sick for the rest of their lives, let alone all the complexity of these drugs.

    The next consideration is once we have a patient stabilized on a regimen, one of the questions is when do we increase the dose, because there are some medications that we want to push the dose. There's some really good data, for instance, with pretty much all the titratable drugs that you want to try to get to either the highest dose that it's licensed for, which is the case for things like bosentan or riociguat. The goal is to get to those doses.

    There's other medications like selexipag where what was clear from the data was that you didn't have to get to the maximum dose, which was 1600 mcg twice a day, but you had to get to your maximum tolerated dose. What the selexipag data showed was it didn't matter. If you got to your maximum tolerated dose, you did just as well as somebody who got to 1600 mcg twice a day, because it seems to be that there are some patients that just need lower doses and can only tolerate lower doses of that medication.

    That's one of the keys that I always think about when I think about prostanoid therapy is maximizing the dose that you can tolerate. The same applies when I start thinking about parenteral prostanoids. If I have a patient who is not doing particularly well and we're on parenteral prostanoids, my first question always is, "Can I go higher with the dose?" The parenterals are great because they don't really have a dose limit. I'll increase the dose and I'll increase the dose.

    One of my mentors when I was training used to say, "What you want to do is you want to titrate the dose to the point where the patient actually feels quite miserable and then drop the dose 10%. In fact, then you might even want to try going up on the dose again. If they feel miserable again, come back down that 10%, and now you've got them on the right dose for now," and then he said, "But this is a disease that's going to continue to progress. At some point, you're going to want to go back up on the dose."

    I think that's one of the things that we tell patients early is that we're not going to sit back and rest on our laurels when we get you to where we need you to be. We're always thinking about, okay, should the dose go up again? Many times it doesn't need to. Patients get to a really good spot. They're very well treated. They're not having a ton of symptoms, but the moment they start to slide again, the next thing is to just keep going up on that dose. There is no limit with the parenterals, which is nice.

    The other thing that we think about as we titrate these drugs is at what speed are we going to do this? The speed is really dictated upon a couple of things. First and foremost, is how sick is the patient? If we have someone in front of us, like I said, who's walked in the door and are dying in front of us, we're going to crank that drug up really fast. We're going to get them as high as we can, as quick as we can. In the average patient, what we find is that, for most of our drugs, they have an indication and a label of how quickly you should titrate them based on what was done in the clinical trial. We generally stick to that recommendation. For most patients, that works out just fine.

    I do have a subset of patients who even that titration schedule is too fast. They get too many side effects if you go up too quickly. So usually, not prescriptively before I start the titration, but maybe as I'm going through the titration. If a patient calls and said, "Look, I'm scheduled to go up on my dose tomorrow, but I feel awful," just because it's been a week, it doesn't mean I'm going to say, "Well, you're going to go up on the dose regardless." We always would take that into account and say, "Okay, let's hold here for another week, but let's come back to this discussion."

    What is key in my opinion is, again, to remind the patients that that maximum tolerated dose is really important to get to. It's okay to have side effects. That's expected. We're going to manage those with you. Then we're going to try again. Some of our titrations, instead of the prescribed once per week, and if you're thinking about a drug like selexipag, for instance, that might take eight weeks to get to the maximum dose, well, I've had some patients that take 16 weeks or 32 weeks, and that's okay. We just remind them that we're here with you and we're just going to keep going as we can go.

    There really isn't a fixed schedule. Like I said, there's very few exceptions where I think you should go faster than what's put on the label. Those are really critically ill patients. For the average patient who's an ambulatory outpatient, it's either what's labeled or maybe even a bit slower.

    I'd like to wrap up by saying thank you for giving me the opportunity to chat about what I do and what we think about in the clinic every day. Titrating medications is a huge part of what we do. It's gratifying medicine. It's amazing to watch patients just get better and better and better with these drugs. Hopefully, this gives all of you as listeners an understanding of what we're thinking and why we're doing what we're doing, because sometimes it can seem like a bit of witchcraft and wizardry, but I promise you there's some thought behind it.

    These are the things that we think about as we make these decisions. Again, the most important thing is, of course, listening to our patients. Listen to what they tell you in terms of what their experience is and then running with that to make the next decision in the treatment plan together with them.

    My name is Dr. Mitesh Thakrar, and I'm aware that my patients are rare.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
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    Episode 440 - Mitesh Thakrar, MD

    Episode 440 - Mitesh Thakrar, MD

    Mitesh Thakrar, MD is a Clinical Associate Professor at the University of Calgary and the current Deputy Medical Director of the Southern Alberta Transplant Program. In this episode, Dr. Thakrar discusses titration of pulmonary arterial hypertension therapeutics.

    Learn more about pulmonary hypertension trials at www.phaware.global/clinicaltrials. Follow us on social @phaware Engage for a cure: www.phaware.global/donate #phaware
    Share your story: info@phaware.com @phacanada  #phawareMD