Law, disrupted

John is joined by Júlio César Bueno, Partner and Head of Litigation at Pinheiro Neto Advogados, one of the most highly regarded law firms in Brazil. Júlio explains some of the unique characteristics of the Brazilian civil justice system, including the ability of lawyers to have ex partecommunications with the judge and the severe limits on pretrial discovery. They discuss the burdens imposed by Brazil’s enormous docket (over 83 million pending cases) on the system, including the lengthy delays, the extremely short time allocated for oral argument or witness examination and the resulting importance of winning cases through written submissions. They also discuss how these burdens have led to an increase in arbitration, particularly in infrastructure and merger and acquisition disputes, as well as the increasing digitalization of the entire court system.  Finally, Júlio explains that disputes over mergers and acquisitions, corporate shareholder disputes and environmental litigation are the most rapidly growing areas in Brazilian civil disputes. 

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

Guests:  Robert Zink, former head of the U.S. Justice Department’s Criminal Division, Fraud Section and partner in Quinn Emanuel’s Washington, D.C. office and Steve Madison, former federal prosecutor and partner in Quinn Emanuel’s Los Angeles office. 

John, Robert, and Steve follow up on their August 2023 podcast about the four pending criminal actions against former President Donald Trump. They discuss how events might play out if , as seems likely, Trump is convicted in one or more of the cases.  They discuss the current timeline of each case and which will likely go to trial before the November election. They also discuss the consequences of possible convictions in each case, including the range of potential sentences, the procedures involved in sentencing, and the likelihood that he would remain free on bond.  They also discuss the impact any potential convictions would have on his ability to remain on the ballot, possible challenges to enforcing any sentences should he win the election, and the possibility of obtaining pardons, whether by himself or President Biden for the potential federal convictions or by the Governors of New York or Georgia in the state cases. They also discuss a potential Constitutional crisis if he were to refuse to report to prison and potential solutions such as a special sentencing to home detention or delayed prison time until after presidential term.  

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Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Dennis Hranitzky, partner in Quinn Emanuel’s Salt Lake City, New York and London Offices,  Head of the firm’s Sovereign Litigation practice and Co-Head of the firm’s Global Asset Recovery Practice.  They discuss various kinds of litigation, arbitration and collection actions against sovereign states. They discuss collection cases against sovereign states resulting from those states’ default on debt instruments, the challenges faced by creditors who hold out after most creditors agree to a debt restructuring arrangement with the sovereign, recent proposed legislation any other government actionsfavoring sovereigns, the current sovereign debt crisis, and concerns about opportunistic funds who seek profit by collecting on devalued sovereign debt.  They also discuss investor state arbitration generally, for example, after a company has invested in a project in a country and the country fundamentally changes the terms under which the investment was made, such as radically raising taxes as Spain did with respect to renewable energy projects after 2008. They discuss the position taken by the EU that EU courts cannot enforce arbitration awards against EU nations even when the nation entered voluntarily into an arbitration treaty and recent indications that the United States government supports the position of the EU.  Finally, they discuss litigation against sovereigns unrelated to sovereign debt, such as litigation against state sponsors of terrorism including the lawsuit Quinn Emanuel recently filed against Iran on behalf of victims of the October 7, 2023 Hamas attacks. 

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by David A. Nelson, a partner in the Chicago office of Quinn Emanuel & co-chair of the firm’s National Intellectual Property Litigation Practice. David is widely recognized as one of the most successful patent trial lawyers in the United States. They discuss how trying patent cases is different than trying other commercial cases. 

They also discuss how to win patent cases at trial including the importance of developing common sense explanations for technical arguments, developing a consistent narrative from the beginning, and using fact witnesses to bring life to your technical arguments.

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Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Jim Wilkinson, Executive Chairman of TrailRunner International and Former White House Director of Communications.  They discuss the art of preparing witnesses to testify before congressional committees which is very different than testifying in court. This includes the importance of researching the members of Congress who will question the witness, knowing the discussions occurring in online forums each member frequents, and the four to six categories of questions they are likely to ask.  Using specific examples, they also discuss the importance of knowing and using “megatrends” in public opinion, the advantages of having a few key metaphors or “haymakers,” and the importance of preparing three or four “pivot points” to turn the force of an aggressive question away from the witness.  Finally, they discuss the role counsel can play in preparing the witness including researching evidence that makes the witness’s points, helping the witness to make their key arguments cogently, and providing confidence that their testimony will not create any legal jeopardy.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Major Ben Wahlhaus who serves in the International Law Department of the Israel Defense Forces.   They discuss the application of the international law of armed conflict to the current operations in the Gaza Strip, including the sources of that law and the role that the International Law Department of the IDF plays in trying to assure compliance. They also discuss the three cardinal principles of targeting: distinction (which prohibits intentionally targeting civilians or civilian objects), precautions (which requires taking all feasible measures to mitigate civilian harm), and proportionality (which for each individual attack requires balancing the anticipated military advantage against the expected civilian harm) and the rules, procedures, and policies the IDF has in place to follow these principles in every attack.  They also discuss the distinction between war crimes and crimes against humanity and apply both legal standards to the actions of Hamas and the IDF after October 7.  They discuss Major Wahlhaus’ day to day activities as a lawyer adviser to the IDF.  Finally, they discuss the action South Africa brought before the World Court alleging that Israel is currently engaged in war crimes as well as genocide, including the Major’s role as part of Israel’s defense team and the evidence presented concerning Israel’s efforts to mitigate civilian harm.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Hisaya Kimura, Senior Counsel in the Tokyo office of Nagashima Ohno & Tsunematsu. They discuss aspects of the Japanese legal system, including Japan’s historical adoption of the German civil procedure system and subsequent incorporation of elements, such as cross-examination, of the American system. They also discuss how Japanese litigants typically exchange multiple detailed briefs covering both factual and legal issues in detail for years before trial followed by trials that last less than a day with only one witness testifying for each side. They also discuss key differences between Japanese and American litigation, including the absence of discovery, juries, and punitive damages in Japan as well as the application of the beyond reasonable doubt standard in civil litigation. Finally, they discuss recent changes to the legal profession in Japan, including the expansion of Japanese law firms beyond litigation to include advice on regulatory, M&A and competition issues, the expansion of leading Japanese firms into international markets and the impact foreign firms have had by opening Japanese offices.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Temi Omilabu, an associate in Quinn Emanuel’s New York office.  They discuss her remarkable journey from her childhood in Lagos, Nigeria, to becoming a trial lawyer at Quinn Emanuel, including the adjustments she had to make moving from Lagos to first Florida then Texas, her years at Case Western University where she earned her Master’s degree in Bioethics and her work after graduating for two global health-focused nonprofits.  They also discuss her love of advocacy and storytelling that led her to law school, her internship in the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office and her post-law school fellowship in the General Counsel’s Office at Yale.  Finally, they discuss how Temi’s interest in litigation lead her to Quinn Emanuel’s New York office,  where she immediately started working on depositions and on multi-district litigation and went to trial in a pro bono case within her first year with the firm.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Emmanuel Givanakis, the CEO of Abu Dhabi Global Markets Financial Services Authority (ADGM).  They discuss the growth of the ADGM as a leading international financial center based on its unique structure as an independent free zone within Abu Dhabi in which English common law directly applies and judges from the UK and other common law countries hear cases in an independent common law court.  They discuss the role the ADGM plays in diversifying Abu Dhabi’s economy away from the oil and gas industry, the importance of providing legal certainty to attract investors, and how the ADGM  chose aspects of corporate, insolvency and financial services legislation from the UK, Australia and international financial regulatory groups to craft its own financial legislation that reflected international “best practices” that would be familiar to investors from any continent.  They also discuss how the ADGM has implemented legislation regarding FinTech, digital assets and carbon markets and how AI can promote regulatory compliance.  Finally, they discuss challenges the ADGM may face in the future including the possibility of a global recession, geopolitical issues in the region, as well as the importance of allowing capital to move freely into and out of the region.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Leslie Zhang Weihua, Vice President and General Counsel of United Energy Group, China, one of the largest independent oil and gas companies in the world.  They discuss Leslie’s extensive experience in international legal affairs, including his experience as general counsel for both large state-owned enterprises (SOEs) and private companies in China.   They discuss the differences between providing legal services for SOEs and private companies, including the additional procedures SOEs must follow in making business decisions, the strategic issues in addition to return on investment that SOEs must consider and how rate sensitive SOE’s procurement procedures are and how that applies to hiring counsel.  They also discuss the expectations that Chinese clients have with respect to counsel finding creative solutions to regulatory issues, the rates paid for unsuccessful legal projects, and responsiveness in providing legal analysis. They also compare Chinese and Western law firms with respect to training, expertise, and specialization while noting the ongoing expansion of Chinese firms into international work and the Chinese government’s policy of encouraging the continued development of international arbitration centers in Hong Kong and Singapore.  Finally, they discuss the role lawyers can play in improving relations between the United States and China including the importance of recognizing the risks and costs of decoupling.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Sean Grimsley, Partner at Olson, Grimsley, Kawanabe, Hinchcliff & Murray LLC, one of the lawyers who represented the plaintiffs in the case in which the Colorado Supreme Court made the historic ruling that former President Donald Trump is not eligible to be elected President in 2024.  They discuss how Sean became involved in the case which his firm filed the day after it first opened its doors, how the case progressed rapidly as a special expedited state court proceeding under the Colorado Election Code, and the bench trial that concluded less than two and a half months after the case was filed.  They also discuss the fact witness who testified about the events of January 6, 2021 and the battle of historical legal experts on the original meaning of Section Three of the 14th Amendment which provides that no person may hold federal office if they previously took an oath of loyalty to the United States and later engaged in insurrection against it.  They also discuss the defenses asserted that the Colorado Election Code did not apply, that the Presidency is not an “office” within the meaning of the 14thAmendment, that this was a political question under federal constitutional law, that the only actions complained of consisted of protected speech under the First Amendment, and that the events of January 6 did not amount to an insurrection.  Finally, they discuss the expedited  appeal of the trial court’s decision before the Colorado Supreme Court, the likelihood that the U.S. Supreme Court will review the case and the status of similar 14th amendment  suits in other states

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Michael Nosanchuk, an associate in Quinn Emanuel’s New York office.  They discuss Michael’s unique journey from studying screenwriting, to driving a taxi in New York City, to his time in sustainable farming to ultimately becoming a successful lawyer working in the premier art disputes practice in the world. They also discuss how these experiences prepared him for his career in law, including how driving a cab taught him cultural fluency, farming taught him patience and perseverance, and screenwriting taught him the importance of carefully crafting an emotionally moving story and telling the story in limited time. Finally, they discuss what led him to join Quinn Emanuel, including its heterogeneous collection of driven people and Michael’s observations of how art disputes differ from other kinds of litigation.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Yixuan Zhu, an Associate in Quinn Emanuel’s Beijing office with a unique expertise in both Chinese and American law.  They discuss Yixuan's background studying law and passing the bar in both China and the U.S., including her experience conducting high stakes investigations in China for multinational companies involving the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and other anti-bribery laws, her decision to join Quinn Emanuel’s Shanghai office, and her studies at both Harvard and the University of Indiana.  They also discuss Yixuan's experience in Quinn Emanuel’s New York office including representing KKR in a trial over an important real estate transaction and her role in expedited multi-billion dollar litigation in Delaware Chancery Court in the first busted deal case of the Covid era, including her cross-examination of the other side’s expert at trial.  Finally, they discuss her experience helping Quinn Emanuel open both its Shanghai and Beijing offices, her status as probably the only Chinese lawyer to have cross-examined a witness in a Delaware Chancery Court trial, and her suggestions to leaders in both countries on how to better understand the other.

After this podcast was recorded (but not because of it!), Yixuan was elected to partnership in the firm

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Eric F. Grossman, Chief Legal Officer and Chief Administrative Officer of Morgan Stanley.  They discuss the current legal issues facing General Counsel at major international institutions including how generative AI and machine learning will impact legal services and how companies interact with their clients; when companies should speak out on social issues; and the current regulatory push regarding financial disclosures, antitrust concerns and climate related issues.  They also discuss ESG efforts including the impact of such efforts on employee morale, the capital commitments necessary to transition to sustainability and the importance of accuracy in disclosing ESG commitments.  They also discuss cryptocurrencies, including building the infrastructure and trading and the relatively slow adoption of blockchain.  Finally, they discuss areas of increasing legal risk, including risks facing businesses built on business models that assumed low interest rates and the opportunities for distressed asset investors and bankruptcy practitioners.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Tom Montagu-Smith, KC, with 3 Verulam Buildings.  They discuss practicing in the Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC) Court, including the rationale for creating the unusual DIFC court system where the United Arab Emirates allow foreign lawyers and judges to decide disputes on its sovereign territory, Tom’s experience writing the rules for the Court which are modeled on the rules for the English Commercial Court, and the very recent growth of similar financial free zones and court systems in other jurisdictions.  They also discuss the backgrounds of the judges, the Court’s jurisdictional rules and the mix of cases that are generally brought before the Court. Finally, they discuss some of the interesting issues that have recently arisen in the DIFC Court including whether to allow malicious prosecution actions, the extent to which principles like Sovereign Immunity and the Act of State Doctrine will apply in the DIFC, where to draw jurisdictional lines between the DIFC Court and local courts, and the possible extension of the jurisdiction of the DIFC Court to other economic free zones in the UAE

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Cyril Shroff, Managing Partner of Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, India's largest full-service law firm. They discuss the unique characteristics of the Indian judicial system, including the broad jurisdiction of the Supreme Court, the overwhelming backlog of cases, the need to improve the infrastructure of the judiciary, and the importance for litigants to obtain interim relief. They also discuss the increasing role arbitration plays in resolving significant business disputes, particularly arbitration in Singapore, London and the UAE. Finally, they discuss the key growth areas for business litigation in India, including environmental litigation, data disputes, including generative AI and privacy cases, and corporate governance disputes.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Richard East, Founder and Senior Partner in Quinn Emanuel's London office.  They discuss Richard’s extensive experience litigating in the Abu Dhabi Global Markets (ADGM) court, including Richard’s experience winning the only case that has gone all the way from beginning through trial and judgment in the ADGM. They discuss the ADGM Court’s unique features as a common law English court within the Abu Dhabi court system, the broad jurisdiction rules, which allow companies present in the ADGM to sue and be sued by foreign defendants, and the extremely modern digitized court facilities that allow parties to present their case efficiently through electronic transmissions. They also discuss the NMC Healthcare case, where Quinn Emanuel’s actions in the ADGM Court played a crucial role in protecting the company from creditor claims and facilitating a restructuring that allowed the company to emerge and trade as a solvent group.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Luke Nikas, Partner in Quinn Emanuel's New York office and Co-Chair of the firm's Art Litigation and Disputes Practice. They discuss the intersection between art, the law and art disputes more generally. The also discuss the Knoedler Art Gallery case, where Luke represented the President of the Gallery,  and the legal and factual issues that surround authenticity disputes. They also discuss the relationship between collectors, dealers, gallerists and art advisors. 

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by James Bremen, Partner in Quinn Emanuel’s London office and Chair of the firm’s Construction and Engineering Practice.  They discuss the complexities of construction litigation and arbitration, including the difficulty of litigating hundreds, if not thousands, of alleged breaches or deviations from the original contract, the ripple effect one change can have on a project’s schedule, and the issues a party must consider when deciding whether to terminate a contract.  They also discuss the multiple parties and jurisdictions that may be involved in a dispute, the wide variety of experts who often testify, and the importance of selecting attorneys, mediators, arbitrators, and, when possible, judges who are familiar with this practice area, including the language and the specialized contracts involved.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Christopher Bogart, Chief Executive Officer, Director and Co-Founder of Burford Capital and Derek T. Ho, Partner at Kellogg, Hansen, Todd, Figel & Frederick, P.L.L.C.  They discuss how Derek obtained a $16 billion judgment, the largest ever in the United States that has not been overturned on appeal, against Argentina on a claim for breach of contract.  They also discuss the role Burford played in financing the litigation.  In the 1990s, when Argentina wanted to privatize its nationally owned oil company YPF, it faced investor skepticism due to its troubled history of nationalizing private companies.  To address those concerns, it structured the YPF offering to include a right of shareholders to have their shares repurchased by Argentina at an agreed upon price if Argentina ever retook control of YPF.  In 2012, Argentina retook control of YPF, but refused to repurchase the remaining public shares at the agreed upon price.  John, Christopher and Derek discuss the role Burford played from the outset of the case, Argentina’s assertion of foreign sovereign immunity, and Argentina’s other defenses.  They also discuss the summary judgment process and ruling, the three day bench trial composed entirely of expert witnesses, and the status of post-trial motions and appeal.

Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fm
Host: John B. Quinn
Producer: Alexis Hyde
Music and Editing by: Alexander Rossi