Minds Behind Maps

Ryan Abernathey is a Climate Scientist, open-source software developer and the CEO & co-founder of Earthmover, a company trying to simplify how scientific computing is done. Ryan also co-founded the Pangeo project in 2016, one of the major efforts to build better tools for scientific computing today.

Sponsor: Nimbo by Kermap

Try out Kermap's monthly mosaic viewer Nimbo for yourself

About Ryan

• Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Github

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• Pangeo
  • Xarray
  • Zarr
• Earthmover
• ERA5
• Books & Podcast recommendation
  • Crossing the Chasm by Geoffrey A. Moore (Affiliate Link)
  • The Data Stack Show

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(00:45) - Sponsor: Nimbo by Kermap

(02:20) - Ryan describes himself

(03:11) - From Oceanography to data infrastructure

(06:11) - Building an Company around Open Source

(13:33) - Product

(16:28) - The current Earth Observation data stack

(20:39) - Issues with today's approaches

(30:30) - Zarr

(33:30) - Friction with new technology

(38:23) - Climate science vs geospatial

(44:48) - Different sciences make different assumptions

(47:17) - Modeling Level of Details

(59:50) - Book & Podcast recommendations

(01:05:37) - Support the podcast on Patreon!

• Support the podcast on Patreon
• My video on an introduction to satellite images
• Website
• My Twitter
• Podcast Twitter
• Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
• Edited by Peter Xiong
• Find more of his work

Gilberto Camara was the director of INPE, Brazil’s National Institute for Space Research from 2005 to 2012, working there 35y in total and leading the use of satellite imagery to fight deforestation in Brazil, leading to what Nature declared “One of the biggest environmental wins of the 2000s”

Sponsor: OpenCage

 Use OpenCage for your geocoding needs with their API
 Geomob

About Gilberto

• Twitter
• Blog

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• Landsat 1
• MODIS
• Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, Brazil’s current president
• My interview with USGS’s former Director Barbara Ryan
• 1992 Rio declaration (particularly Article 10)
• BBC ‘Yes Minister’
• Nature article on Brazil deforestation initiatives
• Books & Podcast recommendations
  • The Great Transformation by Karl Polanyi (Affiliate Link)
  • The Rise of the Network Society: The Information Age by Manuel Castells (Affiliate Link)
  • Robin Cole’s satellite-image-deep-learning
  • Code & Other Laws of Cyberspace by Lawrence Lessig (Affiliate Link)
  • Techno-Feudalism by Yanis Varoufakis (Affiliate Link)

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction
(01:14) - Sponsor: OpenCage
(02:40) - Gilberto describes himself
(04:14) - Deforestation wasn't always a priority: Brazil in the 80s
(07:50) - INPE (Brazil's National Institute for Space Research)
(11:13) - Landsat
(23:15) - Forest Land doesn't have monetary value
(24:14) - Mapping Deforestation Doesn't Magically Solve Everything
(28:35) - Incentives
(38:06) - Open Data was the only way
(38:51) - Not everyone likes open data
(42:11) - The first real-time deforestation alert system
(46:43) - From data to actual enforcement
(55:15) - Avoiding False Positive Deforestation Alerts
(01:00:48) - Misunderstood Accuracy in Remote Sensing
(01:07:52) - The roles of current geospatial tools
(01:15:43) - Brazil made Landsat images openly available before the US
(01:20:31) - Getting Things Done
(01:33:51) - Private remote sensing companies
(01:49:50) - The right tool & the right data
(01:53:32) - Monetary motivations behind commercial GIS
(02:02:29) - The source(s) of innovation
(02:07:28) - Book/podcast recommendation
(02:12:56) - Opening just a tiny little last topic
(02:17:41) - Support my work on Patreon

Support the podcast on Patreon

• My video on an introduction to satellite images
• Website
• My Twitter
• Podcast Twitter
• Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
• Edited by Peter Xiong
• Find more of his work

Thomas Ager worked for 30y at the National Geospatial Agency on Radar satellite images and recently released ‘The Essentials of SAR’ a book breaking down Synthetic Aperture Radar for, as he puts it, “non electrical engineers”

Sponsor: Planet

Find more about accessing Planet's high resolution & high frequency images

About Tom

• LinkedIn
• His book: The Essentials of SAR (Affiliate Link)
  • Also available in Mandarin

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• My Interview with Iain Woodhouse: Understanding Radar Satellite Images
• Tom’s interview on Project Geospatial
• Mapping London’s deformation
• 70cm mapping of the Moon
• Book (and poem!) recommendation
  • Who Is Fourier? (Affiliate Link)
  • Project Geospatial: https://www.youtube.com/@Projectgeospatial
  • Fern Hill by Dylan Thomas

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(01:13) - Sponsor: Planet

(02:28) - Tom describes himself

(04:13) - National Geospatial Agency

(05:46) - Why should anyone care about radar images?

(09:52) - Why not just fly plane?

(10:54) - SAR in the 80s

(23:14) - Finding early use in SAR

(27:09) - Skepticism in new tech

(30:09) - Phase

(35:32) - Bringing poetry to physics

(42:01) - The most astonishing element of SAR

(48:41) - Future of SAR

(51:51) - The next step

(56:49) - The language issue

(59:45) - Tom's book

(01:02:46) - Tom's book dedication

(01:04:49) - Teaching

(01:07:40) - Getting NGA's approval on the book

(01:09:09) - Doing what people tell you not to do

(01:11:34) - Machine Learning in SAR

(01:15:55) - Book & Podcast recommendation

• Support the podcast on Patreon
• My video on an introduction to satellite images
• Website
• My Twitter
• Podcast Twitter
• Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
• Edited by Peter Xiong
• Find more of his work

Brian McClendon was one of the earliest investors & later VP of Engineering at Keyhole, which got acquired by Google in 2004. Brian become VP of Engineering and led Google Geo, overlooking the development of Google Earth & Google Maps. He also worked at Uber & is now at Niantic, which you might know for thri most popular app: Pokemon Go

Sponsor: OpenCage

 Use OpenCage for your geocoding needs with their API
 Geomob

About Brian

• LinkedIn
• Niantic

Shownotes

• Never Lost Again by Bill Kilday (Affiliate Link)
• Brian’s University of Kansas course: “Startups Rasing Money”
• @Home Network (Wikipedia Page)
• Keyhole Inc (History of Google Earth Wikipedia)
• Google Earth
• I think you can find a link to Google Maps on your own :)
• Nicaragua border story
• Books & Podcast
  • 3 Body Problem by Cixin Liu (Affiliate Link)
  • Marketplace podcast

Timestamps
(00:00) - Introduction

(01:16) - Sponsor: OpenCage

(02:42) - Brian describes himself

(03:33) - Getting into computer graphics

(05:15) - From engineer to building companies

(08:06) - The Beginnings of Keyhole

(12:42) - EarthViewer demo

(14:33) - Going through rough times

(21:00) - What made Keyhole so unique

(25:56) - How much of Keyhole's work is still in Google Earth?

(32:08) - Borders are hard

(37:20) - Changing borders

(43:15) - Google's rationale for spending so much on mapping

(45:37) - Use for Google Maps vs Earth

(47:22) - Google Earth Engine

(51:16) - Earliest Google Earth Image

(52:20) - Working at Uber

(57:03) - Self-driving

(58:30) - Project Ground Truth

(01:04:01) - Where is self-driving today?

(01:10:29) - Trains vs Cars

(01:14:15) - Niantic

(01:17:07) - Future predictions

(01:19:28) - Glasses over phones

(01:21:05) - The next iPhone moment

(01:23:33) - Using Tech to get people outside

(01:25:57) - Teaching

(01:28:11) - The need for tech companies outside the Bay Area

(01:30:21) - Remote work

(01:34:59) - Recommendations to students

(01:36:10) - Book/Podcast Recommendations

• Support the podcast on Patreon
• My video on an introduction to satellite images
• Website
• My Twitter
• Podcast Twitter
• Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
• Edited by Peter Xiong
• Find more of his work

Ariel Seidman is one of the co-founders of Hivemapper, a company building a map through selling dashcams & paying contributing drivers with the aim of competing with Google Maps. Ariel has a long history of mapping, working on Map & Search at Yahoo in the mid 2000s.

Sponsor: Planet

Find more about accessing Planet's high resolution & high frequency images

About Ariel

• Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Hivemapper

Shownotes

• Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson (Affiliate Link)
• Econ 102 with Noah Smith: https://www.youtube.com/@ECON102Podcast

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(02:29) - Sponsor: Planet

(03:43) - Ariel describes himself

(05:59) - Steve Jobs influence

(07:30) - Leaving Yahoo

(11:32) - Importance of owning the collected data

(14:15) - Hivemapper

(25:53) - Incentivizing contributions

(30:42) - So, Why crypto?

(33:23) - Public distrust of crypto

(39:16) - Building trust with contributors

(46:40) - Regulations & Privacy

(51:14) - Turning images into maps

(01:06:04) - Customer base

(01:16:26) - Bike support?

(01:19:11) - Most interesting users

(01:22:31) - Future predictions

(01:26:10) - Collaborating with car manufacturers

(01:27:47) - Book & podcast

(01:31:51) - Changes in Journalism

• Support the podcast on Patreon
• My video on an introduction to satellite images
• Website
• My Twitter
• Podcast Twitter
• Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
• Edited by Peter Xiong
• Find more of his work

It's the end of the year, so time for Christmas sweaters & looking back on the year through 12 conversations ranging from advice for people wanting to build things, discussing academia & companies, thinking about the roles of maps in the world and many others.

Support the podcast & my work on Patreon

Listen to the full episodes mentioned today:

• Harold Goddijn
• Sean Gorman
• Can Duruk
• James Killick
• Mila Luleva
• Iain Woodhouse
• Jed Sundwall
• Javier de la Torre
• Este Geraghty
• Renny Babiartz
• Hongwei Liu
• Steve Brumby

Timestamps

(00:00) - Intro

(01:15) - Consider Supporting my Work on Patreon

(02:49) - Harold Goddijn - Advice for Ambitious People

(09:41) - Sean Gorman - Not Everyone needs to code

(14:26) - Can Duruk - Making Maps Fun

(19:32) - James Killick - Why Apple Got Into Maps

(33:00) - Mila Luleva - Academia & Private Sector

(38:33) - Iain Woodhouse - Teaching Satellite Image's Military History

(46:48) - Jed Sundwall - ChatGPT's impact on Open Data

(57:10) - Javier de la Torre - Policies are 10 years behind the science

(01:00:10) - Este Geragthy - The Story behind John Hopkins Covid Dashboard

(01:05:23) - Renny Babiartz - The Nuance in Communicating Findings

(01:11:48) - Hongwei Liu - Indoor Mapping

(01:15:58) - Steve Brumby - Maps Against Greenwashing

(01:24:26) - Outro

• Support the podcast on Patreon
• My satellite image introduction video
• My Twitter
• Podcast Twitter
• Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
• Max edited this episode this time so... follow me!

Jason Boone runs the Boone Loves Videos YouTube Channel with nearly 100k subscribers, teaching people visual effects & map animations. This led him to work with some of the biggest YouTubers out there, including Johnny Harris. We talked about running an online business teaching people map animations, using maps to tell stories and Jason's recent dive into tech startups.

Sponsor: Planet

Find more about accessing Planet's high resolution & high frequency images

About

• Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Jason’s Youtube channel: Boone Loves Videos

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• Jack Joyce
• Johnny Harris
• Google Earth Studio
• The Origins of European Imperialism by Johnny Harris
• “How Johnny Harris rewrites history” by Present Past
• Mapal
• Every Frame a painting
• Book & Podcast recommendation
  • Vagabonding (Affiliate Link)
  • This American Life Documentary Series
  • Range by David Epstein (Affiliate Link)

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(00:44) - Sponsor: Planet

(01:58) - How would you describe yourself

(04:22) - Jason's path to becoming a YouTuber

(12:43) - Documentary itch

(15:43) - Maps!

(21:30) - Geo layers

(24:07) - Leaning into a niche

(27:40) - Getting the data you need to tell a story

(32:02) - Working with Johnny Harris

(36:49) - Telling Stories

(40:37) - Travelling through maps

(43:05) - Joining a tech startup

(43:16) - Felt

(45:22) - Income as a freelancer

(54:54) - Helping others get jobs

(56:09) - A story of respecting Johny Harris

(59:52) - Tech Startups

(01:03:04) - Youtubers also run startups

(01:05:14) - Current YouTube landscape

(01:06:54) - Do I need film school?

(01:10:16) - One hit wonders of YouTubers

(01:13:32) - YouTube algorithm

(01:15:06) - Jason's relationship to analytics

(01:16:50) - Advice for content creators

(01:20:57) - Embracing a niche

(01:24:25) - Family privacy

(01:30:51) - Book & podcast recommendation

(01:36:20) - Behind The Scenes available on Patreon

• Support the podcast on Patreon
• My satellite image introduction video
• My Twitter
• Podcast Twitter
• Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
• Edited by Peter Xiong
• Find more of his work

Javier de la Torre started a Biologist Researcher, went on to start Vizzuality and later Carto where he is now. Javier works at the intersection mapping, software based companies & geospatial. He is also one of the founding members of the Tierra Pura Foundation focused on mitigation and adaptions tactics to climate change.

Sponsor: Felt

Check out their QGIS Plugin to easily share your QGIS projects

About Javier

• LinkedIn
• Twitter
• Carto

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• Vizzuality
• Al Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth documentary
• Tierra Pura Foundation
• Andrej Karpathy’s tweet
• Geospatial + AI Javier talk at Spatial Data Science Conference
• Book & Podcast recommendation
  • Freakonomics Podcast
  • The Invention of Nature by Andrea Wulf (Affiliate Link)

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(00:53) - Sponsor: Felt

(02:19) - Javier Describes Himself

(03:49) - Curiosity as a driving factor

(07:16) - From Researcher to Starting a Company

(14:42) - Policy is 10 years behind Science

(18:04) - Solving the Worlds Biggest Problems

(21:01) - Focusing on a single problem

(27:38) - Carto

(31:29) - Commercial viability as a key to success

(39:00) - Buiding a company vs Doing the work

(43:01) - So, why host a conference?

(47:52) - Online vs in person community

(51:13) - Geo and AI

(55:46) - English is the ultimate programming language

(01:05:03) - Will SQL survive?

(01:13:00) - The valuable skills in a post-AI world

(01:17:29) - Book/podcast

- Support the podcast on Patreon
- My video on an introduction to satellite images
- Website
- My Twitter
- Podcast Twitter
- Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work

Hongwei Liu is the CEO & Co-Founder of MappedIn, a company focused on indoor mapping. I know a lot about what it takes to map the outdoor world, but little about what’s required to map indoors. That’s what this conversation is about.

Episode Sponsor: SkyFi

Get high resolution imagery easily, with prices up front on SkyFi.com

About Hongwei

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• MappedIn
• Maker, their free new iOS app
• My conversation with James Killick
• 3D Gaussian Splatting Github repository
• Hongwei’s blog
  • How I got into startups
• My video on how satellite images work
• Book & podcast recommendation:
  • Hardcore History
  • The Catcher in the Rye (Amazon Affiliate)

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(01:03) - Sponsor: SkyFi

(02:13) - Hongwei Describes Himself

(04:45) - "Accidentally" Starting a company

(08:15) - Solving a technological vs a people problem

(10:21) - Starting a business as students

(13:45) - Sales is about convincing people

(17:50) - Continuing to experiment

(21:42) - What does it actually take to map the indoors?

(26:32) - Maps vs Models

(28:01) - Why do we even need good indoor maps?

(34:58) - An indoor approach to Tesla's mapping

(41:04) - All Privacy aside, what would it take to automate indoor mapping?

(45:39) - Making a free mapping app

(48:25) - Product vs Sales lead companies

(01:02:12) - "Only the paranoid survive"

(01:06:15) - AR/VR

(01:09:35) - Hongwei's hard work ethic

(01:11:05) - Unconventional path

(01:16:42) - Difficulty of finding your own lane

(01:21:38) - Grinding for the people that coming after

(01:25:21) - Faith

(01:28:45) - Visiting China

(01:34:50) - Misunderstandings through language

(01:40:22) - Leveraging the internet

(01:43:16) - Book & Podcast Recommendations

(01:45:29) - Consider supporting me on Patreon

- Support the podcast on Patreon
- Website
- My Twitter
- Podcast Twitter
- Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work

Sean Gorman is currently on his 4th start-up, Zephr, working on improving smartphone location. Previously he worked on 3D mapping (acquired by Snap), mapping fibre optics infrastructure (and caught the NAS's attention as a grad student). I was recently in Colorado and got to spend a few days with Sean, at the end of which we recorded a conversation about building great teams, finding what to work on and building businesses around maps

Sponsor: Felt
Try out collaborative online mapping with Felt
Check out their Youtube Channel for walkthroughs of their latest features

About Sean

• Twitter
• LinkedIn

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• We recorded this conversation right after SatCamp, that we mentioned a few times
• Matthew Ball Essays
• Zephr
• Book & Podcast Recommendations
  • Radiolab
  • Hard Fork
  • New York Times Daily
  • Malazan Book of the Fallen 01: Garden of the Moon by Steven Erikson (Affiliate Link)
  • Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson (Affiliate Link)

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(00:48) - Sponsor: Felt

(01:53) - Sean Describes Himself

(05:22) - Accidentally becoming an entrepreneur

(11:36) - Ending up in front of the NSA as a grad student

(25:33) - Propelled into starting a company as a grad student

(30:45) - Not Everybody has to code

(35:40) - Base, Hits or Bunts: A Baseball Analogy to start-up exits

(41:15) - VC vs Angel investing

(45:02) - Deciding what to work on

(59:25) - Building a library of ideas

(01:02:35) - Sean's current project: Zephr

(01:11:05) - Smartphone location information isn't that good

(01:18:51) - How do you solve the trust problem

(01:26:33) - Advice for people wanting to build things

(01:29:39) - Building a Good Team

(01:33:35) - Gravitating towards small teams

(01:37:37) - Predictions on the AR market

(01:40:15) - Podcast/book recommendation

- Support the podcast on Patreon
- Website
- My Twitter
- Podcast Twitter
- Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work

Harold Goddijn is one of the co-founders & the CEO of TomTom. TomTom has pivoted many times, from it's beginnings making PDA software in the early 90s, stumbling onto map applications, building its own hardware to millions of devices sold in a day, to its current form today. TomTom is a fascinating company in the mapping industry and I'm excited to share a conversation with the person leading it all, Harold Goddijn.

Episode Sponsor: SkyFi
Get high resolution imagery easily, with prices up front on SkyFi.com

About Harold

• LinkedIn
• TomTom

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• Psion
• TomTom Go
• The Overture Maps Foundation
• My interview with Mark Prioleau the Executive Director of Overture
• Books & Podcast Recommendations:
  • Napoleon: A concise biography from Davis A. Bell. (Affiliate Link)

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(00:58) - Sponsor: SkyFi

(02:07) - Harold describes himself

(03:49) - Being an entrepreneur

(06:53) - TomTom in the early days

(11:26) - Why get into mapping in the early days?

(17:41) - Technical hurdles to mapping

(21:06) - The not-so-smooth relationship with data providers

(25:55) - The 2000s down turn

(28:52) - Launching TomTom Go

(30:11) - From a downturn to sudden growth

(33:31) - Going IPO without raising capital

(35:18) - 2008 was a rough year

(41:40) - Pivoting the company

(45:35) - What is TomTom today?

(47:42) - The challenges of making maps today

(53:04) - Working with car manufacturers

(56:44) - Products for entreprises vs consumers

(01:00:53) - One map to rule them all?

(01:05:12) - How does TomTom make money while providing a free map?

(01:07:07) - Why collaboration with Meta, Amazon & Microsoft?

(01:08:04) - What is Harold excited about for the future?

(01:12:27) - Mapping attracts many people

(01:14:59) - Appreciating beautiful maps

(01:16:03) - Advice for entrepreneurs

(01:22:55) - Book/podcast recommendation

- Support the podcast on Patreon
- Website
- My Twitter
- Podcast Twitter
- Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work

James Killick worked at Apple from 2013 to 2022 on the Maps team and has worked in mapping for the past 40 years. I've been wondering why Apple has gotten so much into Maps; Google makes sense to me, they're just the same ad business as search, but on a map. So, why -and how- did Apple get into Map?

Sponsor: Felt
Try out collaborative online mapping with Felt
Check out their Youtube Channel for walkthroughs of their latest features

About James

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• Map Happenings
• Tim Cook apologises for Apple Maps (2012)
• The Underlying Angst of Google Maps and Apple Maps
• Book & podcast recommendations:
  • Build by Tony Fadell (Affiliate Link)
  • Daring Fireball
  • Dithering
  • Lex Fridman

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(01:15) - Sponsor: Felt

(02:20) - James Describes Himself

(04:37) - Car navigation in 1985

(12:25) - Etak's customers

(14:33) - Analog Maps

(22:22) - From Analog to Digital

(29:07) - MapQuest's business model: Ads on a map

(32:36) - MapQuest after the Dot Com Bubble

(41:28) - The Origins of Apple Maps

(45:04) - Shortcomings with Google's data

(46:29) - Apple wanting full control of their own maps

(47:36) - Justifying the costs of owning everything

(51:11) - A Rocky Apple Maps launch

(54:24) - James's role joining Apple in 2013

(59:45) - Indoor mapping

(01:02:29) - Crafted vs automated approaches

(01:06:38) - The OpenStreetMap approach

(01:10:56) - Contribution vs Curation

(01:15:09) - So why does Apple have Apple Maps?

(01:19:25) - Would Apple move towards more advertising?

(01:27:41) - Anti-consumerism in Apple's products

(01:29:39) - Shortcomings of Google's model

(01:31:51) - Apple Maps reviews

(01:34:51) - Incentivizing contributions

(01:41:08) - Michelin Stars comparison

(01:46:36) - Apple's Spatial computing

(01:52:11) - Books/podcasts

(01:57:19) - James' blog: Map Happenings

- Support the podcast on Patreon
- Website
- My Twitter
- Podcast Twitter
- Read Previous Issues of the Newsletter
- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work

Aravind Ravichandran is the founder of TerraWatch Space, where he does consulting and strategy with the goal, in his words, to demystify Earth Observation. This is an introduction to the 5 layers Aravind identifies as making the Earth Observation industry. Aravind writes one of the most popular newsletter gathering the latest news and featuring deep dives analysing the industry. We also hosts a podcast -albeit on pause at the moment- so was the perfect person to discuss Earth Observation at a high level.

Episode Sponsor: SkyFi
Get high resolution imagery easily, with prices up front on SkyFi.com

About Aravind

• Twitter
• LinkedIn
• TerraWatch space
• Aravind's Newsletter
• Aravind's podcast

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• This conversation is based around Aravind's State of Earth Observation deep dive
• Aravind's previous appearance on Minds Behind Maps
• My interview with Andrew Blum
• Sentinel Hub
• My interview with Grega, the founder of Sentinel Hub on building a platform for satellite imagery
• Global Forest Watch
• Forest Pulse: The Latest on the World's Forests
• ESA WorldCover Land Use Land Cover map
• Flight Radar 24
• Book & podcast recommendations
  • To Sell is Human by Daniel H. Pink (Affiliate Link)
  • The Weather Machine by Andrew Blum (Affiliate Link)
  • The Climate Book by Greta Thunberg (Affiliate Link)
  • How to Avoid a Climate Disaster by Bill Gates (Affiliate Link)
  • Lenny's podcast

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(01:00) - Sponsor: SkyFi

(02:10) - Explaining Earth Observation from scratch

(03:57) - Why do we need satellites in the first place?

(05:43) - Why not use ground measurements?

(08:22) - What happens after satellites take images?

(11:55) - 5 Layers of satellite imagery

(12:24) - Layer 1: Data

(13:50) - Layer 2: Platform

(18:35) - A Streaming App Analogy to Platforms

(20:55) - Layer 3: Analytics

(23:10) - Edge Computing

(24:37) - Layer 4: Insights

(28:12) - Layer 5: Application

(31:42) - What is TerraWatch?

(39:15) - How TerraWatch makes money

(44:13) - Sharing Information for free, but sustainably?

(51:33) - Pausing the TerraWatch podcast

(59:05) - Aravind's course on Earth Observation

(01:03:39) - Defining Edge Compute

(01:15:07) - Where Aravind finds his information

(01:21:58) - Book & Podcast Recommendations

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Steve Brumby is the founder & CTO of Impact Observatory, a company working on providing rapid land cover maps anywhere on Earth. He puts it as wanting to provide "the maps the US takes for granted, all around the globe". Steve was also a co-founder & the CTO at Descartes Labs and worked at National Geographic.

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About Steve Brumby

• Twitter
• LinkedIn

Shownotes

• Alexnet Wikipedia
• ImageNet
• Prof Fei-Fei Li
• Roadrunner supercomputer
• IBM's Cell-based Roadrunner is world's fastest (2008)
• Mediations: A Requiem for Descartes Labs by Mark Johnson
• 2015 Bloomberg article on Descartes Labs Corn prediction
• Impact Observatory
• Promptpod podcast
• True Names by Vernor Vinge (Affiliate Link)

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(01:37) - Sponsor

(03:17) - How would you describe yourself

(04:07) - Academia vs Entrepreneurship

(05:21) - The urge to implement

(12:03) - The rise of Deep Learning in Computer Vision after AlexNet

(17:24) - Making a Dataset Equivalent to how much a Human Eye Sees

(18:50) - A SuperComputer made of PlayStation 3s

(22:17) - Descartes Labs

(28:25) - Working at National Geographic

(41:06) - Rate of Innovation in different organisations

(47:53) - The Cost of Raising Venture Capital

(53:30) - Difference between Impact / Angel and VC investors

(01:00:17) - Impact Observatory

(01:04:45) - Working with the United Nations & US Government

(01:13:47) - Greenwashing

(01:19:59) - Trust in government/private company

(01:22:01) - Validation work

(01:28:08) - Communicating Uncertainty

(01:30:20) - What are you excited about

(01:37:27) - Book/podcast Recommendation

(01:41:17) - Googling as the early prompt engineering

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Robert Cheetham is the founder of Azavea, founded all the way back in 2000 and Dan Pilone one of the founders of Element84, started in 2010. Recently Element84 acquired Azavea to expand from large scale computing to also analysis. I wanted to talk to Robert & Dan about why they went for an acquisition and why now, if both companies had both been around for so long. Both companies also have not taken outside investment, which made this acquisition all the more interesting

Support the podcast on Patreon

About Dan & Robert

• Dan's LinkedIn
• Robert's LinkedIn

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• Element84
• Azavea
• Dan's Previous Appearance on Minds Behind Maps
• B-Corporation Certification
• Book & Podcast Recommendations
  • Thinking In Bets by Annie Duke (Affiliate Link)
  • Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir (Affiliate Link)
  • Mike Duncan: History Of Rome
  • Mike Duncan: Revolutions
  • Enlightenment Now by Steven Pinker (Affiliate Link)
  • The better Angles of Our Nature (Affiliate Link)

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(03:05) - How would you describe yourself?

(04:26) - What is Element84 today?

(08:13) - History of Element84

(10:43) - From Landscaping & Japanese Studies to Starting a Software Company

(24:57) - What prompted Robert to start a business

(29:00) - From Solo Entrepreneur to Building a Team

(32:56) - From Desktop GIS to Developing Open Source Tools

(42:09) - Building Companies that Last

(53:43) - Why a B-corp?

(01:01:53) - What is a B-corp?

(01:07:39) - Why An Acquisition?

(01:29:42) - What does the future look like for Element 84?

(01:41:16) - Balance Long Term Thinking with the Urgency of Climate Change

(01:49:56) - Beyond Geospatial?

(01:56:39) - Deciding on a Company Strategy

(01:59:57) - What are Robert & Dan Excited about for the Future?

(02:14:28) - Book and podcast Recommendations

- Support the podcast on Patreon
- Website
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- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work

Dr Este Geraghty is the Chief Medical Officer at Esri, a former Deputy Director of the California Department of Public Health and a certified public health professional; so the perfect person to talk about how we map diseases, health and all the support around medical care. Este also wrote a book about the learning of mapping applied to covid, which we discuss.

Support the podcast on Patreon

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Use OpenCage for your geocoding needs with their API. 
They have a generous Free trial you can sign up to!
---

About Este

- Twitter
- LinkedIn
-  Esri Profile

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• Ensheng (Frank) Dong
• John Hopkins Covid map (discontinued)
• Lauren Gardner
• Este's book: Learnings from Covid-19 (Amazon Affiliate)
• Bill Gates Ted Talk: The next outbreak? We're not ready
• Book & Podcast recommendations:
  • Blue Zones: Lessons for Living Longer From the People Who've Lived the Longest by Dan Buettner (Amazon Affiliate)
  • Public Health Podcast Network by Dr April Moreno

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introducing Este

(02:52) - Este describing herself

(03:25) - How do you describe the work that you do?

(05:43) - Why work in Health?

(08:22) - How has being a practitioner helped you?

(11:19) - Communication in public health

(13:53) - Open data vs privacy

(16:47) - Anonymising data

(18:41) - Geography vs GIS: Is there a difference?

(19:39) - The Power of Visualising Data

(21:39) - The Covid Map viewed Trillion of times

(26:28) - Open data, why not also use open tools?

(28:23) - Learnings From Covid-19: Este's Book

(32:01) - Contact Tracing

(36:35) - Role of private sector

(40:42) - Prevention is Hard

(45:30) - Has Covid made it easier to Advocate for Public Health

(48:11) - Funding Going Down as Covid Slowly Stops

(50:52) - End of the Covid Dashboard

(51:52) - Keeping a Positive Mindset

(55:58) - Este's current preoccupations

(58:21) - Satellite Imagery

(01:01:45) - One Health

(01:03:46) - Climate Change

(01:06:41) - Solving Long Term Problems when people struggle today

(01:09:15) - Nomadic Lifestyle as an Executive

(01:12:16) - Not Always Climbing the Career Ladder

(01:15:03) - Reflecting on 1 year of Nomadic Life

(01:18:54) - Book/podcast

(01:21:41) - What does it take to go to 150 (years old)?

- Support the podcast on Patreon
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- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work

Can Duruk is the co-founder & CTO at Felt, a company working on bringing maps to the browser. In Can's own words they want to make maps fun and collaborative. Think of Felt as the Figma or Notion of Maps.

Episode Sponsor: satellite-image-deep-learning newsletter
To keep up with all things satellite images & deep learning, follow Robin Cole's newsletter here

About Can

• Twitter
• LinkedIn

Shownotes
(Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books)

- Felt

- Check all the shownotes on a Felt map

- Westchester Land Trust

- The World Bank using Felt

- Bicycle & Pedestrian planning

- QGIS & Felt

- Read Margins, Can's newsletter

Book & Podcast Recommendation:

• Captialisn't
• Notes on a Foreign Country: An American Abroad in a Post-American World by Suzy Hansen (Affiliate Link)
• My Dad Wrote a Porno

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction 

(01:37) - Sponsor: satelitte-image-deep-learning 

(02:26) - Can Describes Himself 

(03:30) - What is Felt? 

(04:11) - Making Maps Fun (and Why That's Important) 

(06:27) - Building Something the Feels Fun 

(09:21) - Why Maps Specifically? 

(13:30) - The Story of Felt 

(15:13) - Working with First Responders 

(18:04) - Making Maps Collaborative 

(21:37) - Unexpected Technical Problems 

(25:34) - Dealing with User Input Data 

(29:09) - Browser-based mapping 

(34:27) - Figma set the stage 

(35:21) - Anything that can be built on the web ultimately will 

(36:25) - Technical Details of Building Felt 

(43:18) - Where does the name come from? 

(44:43) - felt.com 

(46:34) - Target audience 

(52:42) - Can's Favorite Felt Use Cases 

(54:38) - Shownotes brought to you by Can 

(55:16) - Make maps for everyone 

(56:57) - Having a vision 

(58:19) - QGIS partnership 

(01:03:13) - Writing Online 

(01:06:27) - Can's Twitter 

(01:08:25) - Languages 

(01:09:49) - Thinking Differently in Different Languages 

(01:11:06) - Coming to the US 

(01:12:31) - Does Felt work in multiple languages? 

(01:15:30) - Book/podcast recommendation

- Support the podcast on Patreon
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- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work

Zhuang-Fang Nana Yi is a Senior Machine Learning Engineer at Regrow, though today's conversation is about her story from going to school not speaking the language, to mapping rubber tree plantations and ultimately using global satellite imagery methods to solve local problems.

Support the podcast on Patreon

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Episode Sponsor: OpenCage
Use OpenCage for your geocoding needs with their API. 
They have a generous Free trial you can sign up to!
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About Zhuang-Fang:

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• Qiusheng Wu's Twitter
• Zhuang-Fang's art
• Book & Podcast recommendations:
  • The Alchemy of Air by Thomas Hager (Affiliate Link)
  • Know My Name by Chanel Miller (Affiliate Link)
  • No Filter by Sarah Frier (Affiliate Link)

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(02:17) - Sponsor: OpenCage

(03:57) - Conversation Begins: Zhuang-Fang presents herself

(07:34) - Nana's Story

(13:01) - Going to a Chinese school without speaking Chinese

(17:57) - From wanting to be a doctor to geography

(22:57) - Picking up English

(28:27) - Working with Limited English

(30:20) - Rubber Trees: A Geopolitical Tool

(36:35) - Working with Local Governments

(38:24) - Process for change

(42:38) - Navigating financial incentives

(47:32) - International collaboration vs Chinese gov

(55:41) - Work as a data engineer

(58:20) - On the ground vs Satellites

(01:01:06) - Data alone doesn't lead to action

(01:02:28) - Art

(01:09:55) - Art in China vs US

(01:12:23) - AI Art

(01:17:38) - Book & Podcast Recommendations

- Support the podcast on Patreon
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- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work

Jed Sundwall is the Executive Director of Radiant Earth, and formerly worked on creating AWS's Open Data Registry, starting by putting Landsat images and then other Earth Observation datasets on the cloud. Radiant Earth is an NGO focused on making geospatial data more accessible, specifically for Machine Learning applications.

Support the Podcast on Patreon to prevent ChatGPT from ruining traffic to these conversations, taking over the world and crushing all of humanity; or just because you like my work, that's fine too

About Jed 

• LinkedIn
• Twitter
• Radiant Earth

Shownotes

• Genome Aggregation Database
• Common Crawl
• Amazon's Open Data Registry
• The Naive Origins of the Clouds Optimized GeoTIFF
• Radiant Earth Announces New Initiatives to Accelerate Sharing of Earth Science Data
• cogeo.org
• Stack Overflow Will Charge AI Giants For Training Data
• ChatGPT is the fastest growing app in the history of Internet applications
• The end of the English Major
• Book & Podcast recommendations:
  • Seeing Like a State by James C Scott: (Affiliate Link)
  • Analogia by George Dyson: (Affiliate Link)

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(01:36) - Patreon

(05:40) - From Humanities to Tech

(06:45) - Marketing

(09:39) - Amazon

(14:01) - AWS's business rationale for hosting free data

(17:16) - History of Amazon Opening Up Data

(18:39) - Common Crawl

(23:09) - How Earth Observation became a big part of AWS's Open Registry

(25:09) - How Cloud Optimized Geotiffs Started

(29:56) - Increasing adoption worldwide

(31:26) - How Sentinel ended up on AWS

(33:26) - Challenges working with non-American companies

(37:17) - What does open and free actually mean?

(42:24) - Marketing Open Data

(43:39) - CERN opening up their data... and nobody knows how to use it

(46:18) - Copernicus Program

(49:16) - Work at Radiant Earth

(52:43) - Mission statement

(01:00:59) - ChatGPT is Changing the value of Data

(01:03:58) - Twitter

(01:07:09) - Census Data Would be easier to get if we could pay for it

(01:11:33) - Search Engine Optimization for ChatGPT?

(01:13:59) - Regulating training data

(01:16:51) - ChatGPT, Google Search & Ads

(01:19:31) - Twitter Checkmarks

(01:21:57) - Podcast/books

(01:27:09) - The Value of Humanities in tech

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- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work

Marc Prioleau is the newly appointed Executive Director to the Overture Maps Foundation (at the date this episode comes out). Overture was originally announced in December 2022, founded by Amazon, Meta, Microsoft and TomTom, with the goal of providing a open map data. That sounds a lot like what OpenStreetMap set out to achieve... so why start something new? Marc has some answers to that question, and it isn't his first time thinking about the future of mapping

Support the podcast on Patreon

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Episode Sponsor: OpenCage
Use OpenCage for your geocoding needs with their API. 
They have a generous Free trial you can sign up to!
---

About Marc

• LinkedIn
• Twitter
• Overture Maps Foundation

Shownotes

Note: Links to books are Amazon Affiliate links. I earn a small commission if you buy any of these books.

• Overture Maps Foundation
• Segment Anything
• segment-geospatial
• Tackle the monkey first
• Books & Podcast recommendations
  • Never lost again by Bill Kilday (Affiliate Link)
  • The Good Fight podcast

Timestamps

(00:00) - Introduction

(01:42) - Sponsorship: OpenCage

(03:22) - Conversation begins

(06:10) - From Chemical Engineering to Mapping

(09:00) - Early Days of GPS: Innovating despite Limitations

(11:02) - Having a Long Term Vision

(13:12) - Science Fiction as a Tool to Imagine the Future

(14:07) - Defining the Overture Maps Foundation

(17:56) - But OpenStreetMap already Exists, why make something new?

(22:54) - Artist vs Merchant Analogy

(27:23) - Companies already are involved in OSM

(30:38) - Users don't care how their map was made

(33:05) - The face of updates keeps increasing

(35:22) - 10 years ago you'd be lucky to have an Estimated Time of Arrival

(40:06) - Overture's value: Data or Tools?

(44:32) - New tools: Example of Segment Anything

(46:35) - Why a Foundation rather than a For Profit?

(51:28) - Open means wider adoption

(51:28) - Open means wider adoption

(55:07) - Google & Apple aren't a part of Overture

(59:22) - There are precedents to map "domination"

(01:03:18) - Making Decisions as a Foundation

(01:10:45) - How many people work at the foundation

(01:13:11) - Engineering contributors

(01:14:16) - Hiring engineers within the foundation?

(01:17:34) - Copyright & Licensing

(01:21:30) - Commonalities with Earth Observation & Satellite Images

(01:28:20) - Books/podcasts

(01:32:36) - Back to Science Fiction & Making Predictions

(01:33:23) - Bonus question: Do you ever think about how far we've come?

- Support the podcast on Patreon
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- Edited by Peter Xiong. Find more of his work