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    Mutual Exchange Radio

    The Center for a Stateless Society (C4SS.org) is an anarchist think-tank and media center. Its mission is to explain and defend the idea of vibrant social cooperation without aggression, oppression, or centralized authority. In particular, it seeks to enlarge public understanding and transform public perceptions of anarchism, while reshaping academic and movement debate, through the production and distribution of market anarchist media content, both scholarly and popular. It is also the home of Mutual Exchange Radio, a new podcast on anarchist thought, hosted by Zachary Woodman. The show brings together a wide variety of guests, from academics, to on-the-ground activists, to Center scholars, to entrepreneurs to discuss the latest developments in the philosophy and practice of market anarchism.
    enAnthony Dreher43 Episodes

    Episodes (43)

    Dispatches from Russia (C4SS Around the World)

    Dispatches from Russia (C4SS Around the World)

    In this special edition of Mutual Exchange Radio, Alex McHugh interviews Ilya, a Russian social anarchist and anti-fascist. Ilya has written for C4SS a couple of times as well as translating some English articles into Russian. In this interview, part of our "Around the World" mini-series with C4SS contributors across the world, we dig into the current muted nature of Russian political activism, the Russian far-right and the dangers they pose, and antifascist hardcore and anarcho-chanson music.

    Get the “Dispatches from Russia” Zine: https://store.c4ss.org/index.php/product/dispatches-from-russia-reports-from-citizen-ilya/
     
    Additional Notes:

    Shikha Dalmia on Immigration and Populism

    Shikha Dalmia on Immigration and Populism

    In this episode of Mutual Exchange Radio, host Zachary Woodman interviews libertarian commentator Shikha Dalmia. Shikha is a former policy analyst for the Reason Foundation and has contributed to publications including Bloomberg View, the Washington ExaminerReason magazine, The Wall Street Journal, and USA Today.

    In this interview, we discuss two timely issues in American politics: immigration and populism. Starting with a philosophical discussion of what our priorities should be in how we respond to rising populism and authoritarianism, we discuss various options for moving forward. Should we move more radically in order to try and protect the rights of those targeted by populists and authoritarians -- or, as Shikha suggests, should we focus on limiting the damage done to liberal democratic institutions by surging populism? 

    Thank you for your continued support! Look out next month for a return to more radical perspectives after this deep dive into democracy and liberalism for the start of the season. You can always give us feedback or suggest guests by emailing us at editor@C4SS.org, or by sending us a message on Patreon!  

    And we're back on YouTube! You can now find Mutual Exchange RadioThe Enragésand bonus content like our recent live episode of The Outgroup, our roundtable show for patrons on the C4SS YouTube channel. 

    Mutual Exchange Radio
    enMarch 17, 2021

    No Bosses, No Landlords, No Bureaucrats!

    No Bosses, No Landlords, No Bureaucrats!

    We're excited to share this pilot episode of our new show with Joel Williamson, The Enragés. Joining Mutual Exchange Radio on the C4SS podcast roster this year, The Enragés will take a deep dive into the recent works of C4SS writers and scholars on the site. You can find the new show in all the same places as Mutual Exchange Radio, including Spotify, iTunes, Stitcher, YouTube, and on our Patreon

    In this first episode of The Enragés, host Joel Williamson sits down with Kevin Carson to discuss Kevin’s recent piece on the Center for a Stateless Society website “The Myth of the Private Sector, Part I: Why Big-Small and Vertical-Horizontal Trumps ‘Public-Private’”—a conversion that spans from the role of government interference in the scale and structure of economic institutions to the definitions of “large” and “small” to possible right-libertarian objections to Kevin’s argument and beyond.

    Kevin Carson is a senior fellow of the Center for a Stateless Society (c4ss.org) and holds the Center's Karl Hess Chair in Social Theory. He is an anarchist without adjectives, heavily influenced by autonomism and the new municipalist movements. His written work includes Studies in Mutualist Political Economy, Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective, The Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto, and The Desktop Regulatory State all of which are freely available online. His book Exodus: General Idea of the Revolution in the XXI Century is forthcoming. Carson has also written for such print publications as The Freeman: Ideas on Liberty and a variety of internet-based journals and blogs, including Just Things and The Art of the Possible, as well as his own blogs, Mutualist Blog and Tea, Earl Grey, Hot.

    Mutual Exchange Radio
    enJanuary 15, 2021

    Bonus Episode: Camilo Gomez on Peru's Presidential Crisis

    Bonus Episode: Camilo Gomez on Peru's Presidential Crisis

    Posted first on Patreon, this is a special Season 2 bonus episode with a new focus we're trying out: C4SS around the world. Our network is a truly global one and if this is content y'all enjoy, I'd like to do a short series spotlighting some of the brilliant people we're connected to outside of the U.S. 

    For this first episode, I interview C4SS contributor Camilo Gomez on an entirely different kind of presidential crisis. Camilo hosts the podcast, “History and Politics” which has featured a few other folks from C4SS. Besides podcasting, Camilo is a freelance writer based in Lima. In this interview, Camilo walks us through what’s happening with the Peruvian presidential crisis and what anarchists and left-libertarians outside of Peru should know about the situation. 

    Let us know if you want to see more of this kind of content and we may make the series a part of our Season 3 line-up! (You can email editor@C4SS.org if you're not a supporter on Patreon yet.)

    - Alex McHugh

    Aurora Apolito and William Gillis on Decentralization and Economic Coordination, Part II

    Aurora Apolito and William Gillis on Decentralization and Economic Coordination, Part II

    This episode is Part II of a two-part interview with Aurora Apolito and William Gillis, two of the lead contributors to our summer symposium on Decentralization and Economic Coordination. Listen to Part I here, or on Spotify, iTunes, and Stitcher.

    Aurora Apolito is a mathematician and theoretical physicist. She studied physics in Italy and mathematics in Chicago, and later worked for various scientific institutions in the US, Canada, and Germany. She also works on mathematical linguistics, and on mathematical models for neuroscience and has authored six books on various aspects of this work. I should also note that Aurora Apolito is a pen name meant to differentiate this research from her work in other fields.

    Our other guest is someone most listeners will be familiar with, William Gillis. Will currently acts as technology coordinator at C4SS and was formerly our coordinating director. Will is a second-generation anarchist who's worked as an activist in countless projects and capacities since getting involved in the lead-up to N30 (also known as the "Battle in Seattle"). Gillis studies high energy physics and has held a deep fascination with the egalitarian potential of markets since 2003. Their writing can be found at C4SS.org and humaniterations.net.

    Here are both Will & Aurora’s essays in the summer Symposium:

    *Support Logan Glitterbomb* As noted in this episode's intro, we're currently raising legal defense funds for C4SS writer Logan Marie Glitterbomb. Learn more and donate here.

    Meet the podcast team:

    Mutual Exchange Radio
    enDecember 21, 2020

    Aurora Apolito and William Gillis on Decentralization and Economic Coordination, Part I

    Aurora Apolito and William Gillis on Decentralization and Economic Coordination, Part I

    This episode is Part I of a two-part interview with Aurora Apolito and William Gillis, two of the lead contributors to our summer symposium on Decentralization and Economic Coordination. Part II will be released on December 21st, although patrons can access that here now

    Aurora Apolito is a mathematician and theoretical physicist. She studied physics in Italy and mathematics in Chicago, and later worked for various scientific institutions in the US, Canada, and Germany. She also works on mathematical linguistics, and on mathematical models for neuroscience and has authored six books on various aspects of this work. I should also note that Aurora Apolito is a pen name meant to differentiate this research from her work in other fields.

    Our other guest is someone most listeners will be familiar with, William Gillis. Will currently acts as technology coordinator at C4SS and was formerly our coordinating director. Will is a second-generation anarchist who's worked as an activist in countless projects and capacities since getting involved in the lead-up to N30 (also known as the "Battle in Seattle"). Gillis studies high energy physics and has held a deep fascination with the egalitarian potential of markets since 2003. Their writing can be found at C4SS.org and humaniterations.net.

    Here are both Will & Aurora’s essays in the summer Symposium:

    *Support Logan Glitterbomb* As noted in this episode's intro, we're currently raising legal defense funds for C4SS writer Logan Marie Glitterbomb. Learn more and donate here.

    Meet the podcast team:

    Mutual Exchange Radio
    enDecember 07, 2020

    Aria DiMezzo: Satanic Trans Anarchist for Sheriff

    Aria DiMezzo: Satanic Trans Anarchist for Sheriff

    Aria DiMezzo is a candidate running for Sheriff in Cheshire County, New Hampshire as a republican. Why have a Republican sheriff candidate on an anarchist podcast, you ask? Well, Aria is not what you’d expect from a GOP cop. She has had many encounters with police in her life, and very few have been positive. She is high priestess of the Reformed Satanic Church, a trans woman, and an anarchist. And she is definitely not a socially progressive libertarian trying to hijack the Republican Party, as you will discover in our conversation. In this conversation we discover why and how, exactly, an anarchist trans women is running for Sheriff as a Republican, Aria’s views on economics, moral dimensions property rights, police, criminal justice, and religion, as well as some reflections on the complicated relationship between socially left-wing views and the libertarian movement as it currently exists. This conversation was a fun one, unique to have. It is not every election year you see such an interesting candidate running in an election that very few would normally pay attention to, but hey it’s 2020.

    Meet the podcast team:

    Mutual Exchange Radio
    enOctober 22, 2020

    Emmi Bevensee on Decentralization and Economic Coordination

    Emmi Bevensee on Decentralization and Economic Coordination

    Joining us today is Emmi Bevensee. Emmi is a senior fellow at the Center for a Stateless Society and currently organizing the Mutual Exchange Symposium on Decentralization and Economic Coordination. They identify as a solarpunk mutualist and research disinformation and fascism on the internet as a Mozilla Open Web fellow and data scientist. In this discussion, we discuss Emmi’s lead essay in C4SS’ recent Mutual Exchange Symposium on Decentralization and Economic Coordination. This is a rich discussion about a complicated issue that anarchists of all stripes, and political theorists more generally, need to take on: how do we get the goods delivered to where they need to be in society. Emmi expresses a sense of skepticism about claims social anarchists have made that communes can economically coordinate in the absence of markets. We also discussed the lead essay of and their reply to another essay from the exchange which tried to give a mathematical formulation to social anarchist attempts to work around the calculation problem by Aurora Apolito. This was an interesting informative discussion, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed having it.

    Meet the podcast team:

    Akiva Malamet on Nationalism and Identity Formation

    Akiva Malamet on Nationalism and Identity Formation

    Joining us today is Akiva Malamet. Akiva is completing his BA in Government at the  Interdisciplinary Center Herzliya (IDC) in Israel. He is an incoming MA student in Philosophy and a member of the interdisciplinary program in Political and Legal Thought (PLT) at Queen’s University, Kingston, and Frédéric Bastiat Fellow in political economy and public policy with the Mercatus Center at George Mason University. He has written for Liberal Currents, Libertarianism.org, and other publications. He was a winner of the 2018 ‘Carl Menger Undergraduate Essay Contest’ for his paper “Spontaneous Order as Social Construction”, from the Society for the Development of Austrian Economics (SDAE). This episode is hosted by producer Alex McHugh. 

    Akiva's essays: 

    Black anarchist/radical resources: 

    Meet the podcast team:

    Mutual Exchange Radio
    enJune 29, 2020

    Vermin Supreme on Ponynomics

    Vermin Supreme on Ponynomics

    Joining me today is Vermin Supreme. You might know Vermin as the satirical presidential candidate from the last few election cycles who ran on a platform of free ponies and mandatory tooth brushing, or you might just know him as that guy with a boot on his head. But this year, he’s running a slightly different campaign for the Libertarian Party Presidential Nomination. Rather than his usual dog and free pony show, he’s seriously promoting left libertarian and anarchist ideas such as mutual aid and non-domination to the largely right libertarian audience in the LP. In this interview, we discuss this campaign, as well as the use of humor as a de-escalation tactic at tense protests, his history of activism within anarchist communities, and where he sees himself standing within anarchism ideologically. This was a very entertaining discussion that is quite different from the sorts we usually have on this show, so I hope you enjoy it.

    Mutual Exchange Radio
    enMay 05, 2020

    Jason Lee Byas on Methodological Anarchism

    Jason Lee Byas on Methodological Anarchism

    Joining me today is Jason Lee Byas. Jason is a fellow at the Center for a Stateless Society. He is also a PhD student in Philosophy at the University of Michigan. His academic work focuses on punishment (and its alternatives), rights theory, and justice beyond the state. He approaches that work from within the liberal, libertarian, and anarchist traditions -- all of which broadly construed. Today, we discussed some recent work he’s been doing on “methodological anarchist” approaches to political philosophy as well as the nature of violence and its relation to a theory of just property rights and distributive justice. The first part of this conversation centers on a bias a lot of analytic political philosophers have of myopically focusing on the realm of justice applying to the state and what political theory and discourse would look like if we adopted a “methodological anarchist” framework that sees the nexus of justice as existing in social norms writ large rather than just official institutions. The second part goes into a libertarian theory of violence that, when combined with normative presumptions against violence, can accommodate and generate property rights claims. We then tried to work through the implications of this theory for intellectual property, absentee landownership, and the relations of such rights claims to concerns about equity.

    Mutual Exchange Radio
    enMay 05, 2020

    Joel Williamson on Pragmatic Anarchism

    Joel Williamson on Pragmatic Anarchism

    Joining me today is Joel Williamson of Non-Serviam media. Joel is an individualist anarchist from Texas who has been involved in different activist projects over the years. These projects range from fundraising to support political prisoners such as Ross Ulbricht, organizing “counter economic farmers markets, and engaging in varied direct action efforts. His activism has most recently been focused on Non Serviam Media, which is a small collective dedicated to exploring the world of anarchist and anti-authoritarian ideas through audio and video production.

    If you spend much time in the left libertarian or anarchist podcast space, you may have come across Non Serviam’s excellent podcast Joel hosts called Non Serviam. If you enjoy this show at all, you probably would enjoy, if you are not already enjoying, that show. I went back and looked at our guest backlog, and roughly half of our past guests have also appeared on Joel’s show. Because of the similarities between our shows and audience, we figured some cross-episodes between Non Serviam and MER were in order. I appeared on the latest episode of Non Serviam to discuss my work on democracy, nationalism, and political authority and, today, we are happy to have Joel on.

    This was a fun conversation that covers a range of topics from underlying philosophical foundations of Joel’s anarchist outlook, to agorism, to praxis and direct action.  It was much more exploratory and funny than previous episodes of MER, which made for a fun and insightful change in pace. I hope you enjoy listening to it as much as I enjoyed having it. Also, check out Joel’s interview with me on Mon Serviam, as well as all his other episodes if you happen to enjoy this conversation.

    Mutual Exchange Radio
    enMarch 07, 2020

    Roderick Long on Class Theory

    Roderick Long on Class Theory

    Joining me today is Roderick Long. If you spend much time looking at C4SS’ work or any work in the market anarchist tradition in the last twenty years, you have likely come across Roderick’s work and surely something inspired by or responding to it. Dr. Long is a professor of philosophy at Auburn University, president of the Molinari Institute and Molinari Society, editor of The Industrial Radical and Molinari Review. He is a founding member of the Alliance of the Libertarian Left, an original founding member of C4SS, and senior fellow at the Center for a Stateless Society. His work centers on the intersection of ethics, especially in the Aristotelian tradition, political philosophy, especially in the libertarian anarchist tradition, and philosophy of social science. You can find Long’s writing on his blog, the Austro-Athenian Empire, Bleeding Heart Libertarians, and, of course, C4SS.org, among other places.

    Today’s discussion centers around Long’s work on libertarian class theory, as well as the normative concerns that rise out of such a theory on balancing distributive and relational justice concerns with individual liberty. As we will discuss, libertarian class theory sees a primary creator and enforcer of class distinctions as the state. This is a wide-ranging discussion that touches on the economic and sociological analysis on class theory at the heart of Roderick’s work on the issue, the empirical plausibility of such a theory, whether class distinctions of this sort would continue to exist under market anarchism, and the ethical and normative framework of justice that motivates this theory. Roderick draws from Aristotelian virtue ethics to bring the seeming contradictions between a concern for individual property rights and a concern for equal treatment of all in society into balance in interesting ways. This was an extremely good, informative discussion of the sort that C4SS has become quite well known for, and I hope you enjoy listening to it as much as I enjoyed having it.

    Just to set the stage a little more, like our last episode with Will, this was recorded at the Eastern Division meeting of the American Philosophical Association. Roderick, through the Molinari society, organized a panel with himself, William Nava, Jason Lee Byas, and myself where we presented papers on new work in anarchist philosophy. The following day, Roderick and I went out to lunch, with a few others from the Center. We then went up to my hotel room and recorded this fun conversation off-the-cuff. I’m surprised it went so well with so little preparation. I also recorded our previous episode with Will Nava on political legitimacy that weekend, so if you haven’t I encourage you to go checkout that episode. But without further ado, here is my conversation with Roderick Long.

    Mutual Exchange Radio
    enFebruary 13, 2020

    Anthony Di Franco on Counter Culture Labs

    Anthony Di Franco on Counter Culture Labs

    Joining me today is Anthony Di Franco. Anthony works at the intersections of complex adaptive systems and computing and focuses on developing convivial technologies, decentralizing infrastructure, and increasing the agency of individuals and communities. He is a co-founder and board member of Counter Culture Labs, a group of biohackers in Oakland, where he founded the Open Insulin project, an effort to develop open technology for insulin production at microbrewery scale and organize patient-led cooperatives to manufacture it. Additionally, he is currently pursuing computer science research on foundational technology to make software easy to create and modify for laypeople, built on declarative programming techniques together with techniques for representing uncertain information.

    Mutual Exchange Radio
    enJanuary 08, 2020

    Jahed Momand on Epistemological Anarchism

    Jahed Momand on Epistemological Anarchism

    This month, we bring you a special episode from the Please Try This at Home transhumanism conference. In this episode, podcast producer Alex McHugh interviews Jahed Momand on autonomous medicine. Jahed is a PNW-based anarchist interested in epistemological anarchism and radical approaches to science. He writes long-form essays and a newsletter at againstutopia.com. In the episode, we get into the problems caused by hierarchy and authority in scientific discovery, and specifically the limitations this system has placed on treatment options for mental health issues. Jahed’s research focuses on depression, but we also dig into other mental health issues, such as psychotic disorders and personality disorders. It’s a bit science-heavy, but Jahed explains the terms well and anyone with a basic understanding of biology should be able to keep up.  

    Mutual Exchange Radio
    enOctober 11, 2019

    Nathan Goodman on the Provision of Public Goods and Welfare in a Stateless Society

    Nathan Goodman on  the Provision of Public Goods and Welfare in a Stateless Society

    Today, Nathan Goodman is joining Mutual Exchange Radio to discuss the provision of public goods and welfare in a stateless society. Nathan is a PhD student in economics at George Mason University. Previously, he was the Lysander Spooner Research Scholar in Abolitionist Studies at the Center for a Stateless Society (C4SS). His research interests include defense and peace economics, Austrian economics, public choice, Bloomington school institutional analysis, self-governance, and analytical anarchism. Our discussion centers around his research on why national defense might not always be a public good and how the Mormon church has found ways around game theoretic problems that arise in mutual aid. He also gives a really helpful introduction to polycentricity and some key economic concepts. 

    William Gillis on Positive and Negative Liberty

    William Gillis on Positive and Negative Liberty

    Welcome to Mutual Exchange Radio, a project of the Center for a Stateless Society. Joining me today is Will Gillis. Will is the director of the Center and is a second generation anarchist who’s worked as an activist in countless projects since getting involved in the lead-up to N30. He studies physics and writes regularly on the egalitarian potential of markets. His writing can be found on his website, humaniterations.net, as well as on C4SS.org.

    Today’s discussion centers around a technical topic in political philosophy that has utmost importance for real-world political movements and many ideological debates: the distinction between positive and negative liberty. Will positions himself as defending a universalist conception of positive liberty as primary and against particularly neo-Lockean libertarian views that place negative liberty as fundamental, but in many ways he comes at it from a different, more highly consequentialist perspective than most theorists. He also has some interesting theories for how a heavy priority on negative liberty has lead many American libertarians towards alt-right and fascist perspectives. This was a fun, philosophically exciting conversation and I hope it is as thought-provoking for you as it was for me. Be warned though, it is a long one which is necessary since we covered a lot of ground and Will takes a lot of great philosophical sophistication and thoughtfulness into his views, which I hope comes across here.

    Mutual Exchange Radio
    enJuly 30, 2019

    Kelly Wright on Grand Juries and How the State Attempts to Control Information

    Kelly Wright on Grand Juries and How the State Attempts to Control Information

    Today we are joined by Kelly Wright. Kelly has written for the Center on topics ranging from the history of anarchist thought, transgender liberation, and police militarization. Kelly also served as Chelsea Manning’s Campaign Manager for her run for U.S. Senate in the Democratic Primary in Maryland in 2018 and is a member of Chelsea’s support committee providing material support for Chelsea as she defies a federal grand jury. Our topic today is on the legal tools the US Government has to target whistleblowers and dissenters and restrict the civil liberties of every day Americans. Today we cover the legal ground surrounding grand juries, the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, and other examples of legal overreach by the state. Kelly is able to draw from a wide variety of examples from the history of state overreach. 

    Mutual Exchange Radio
    enJuly 03, 2019

    Fabio Rojas on Answering Common Objection to Open Borders

    Fabio Rojas on Answering Common Objection to Open Borders

    My guest today is Fabio Rojas, a professor of sociology at Indiana University. Dr. Rojas is an expert who works on the sociology of political movements and social theory. He is the author of several books, including Theory for the Working Sociologist, Party in the Street: The Antiwar Movement and the Democratic Party after 9/11 and From Black Power to Black Studies: How a Radical Social Movement Became an Academic Discipline. He is also currently co-editing Contexts, the official magazine of the American Sociological Association. Today we discussed the economics, sociology, and ethics of immigration and the open borders movement. We are exploring what a world with little to no immigration restrictions might look like and Dr. Rojas’ case for why it would be preferable, both on economic and on ethical grounds. Dr. Rojas addresses some of the most common objections to open borders from the left and the right. He is a very knowledgeable expert on the sociology of immigration as well as a passionate advocate for immigrant rights and that really comes through in our conversation.

    Lyn Ulbricht on Ross Ulbricht and The Silk Road

    Lyn Ulbricht on Ross Ulbricht and The Silk Road

    Welcome to this episode of Mutual Exchange Radio, a project of the Center for a Stateless Society. Today’s guest is Lyn Ulbricht, the mother of Ross Ulbricht. Ross Ulbricht was the founder of Silk Road, a website run as a market that valued the privacy and security of its patrons highly. Because of its emphasis on privacy, it quickly became famous for hosting exchanges of a clandestine nature, such as drugs. Ross was targeted and sentenced to life without parole on entirely non-violent charges for his involvement in Silk Road on very legally dubious grounds. His case has important and dangerous legal implications for the future of the drug war, internet privacy, and due process more generally in the United States.

    Since Ross’ arrest Lyn has strived to direct awareness beyond the sensationalism of the case to issues at stake and how the case impacts freedom in the digital age, as well as a passionate defender of due process and her son. She has spoken at numerous events; appeared on many TV, radio and podcast shows, including Reason TV, CNN, HuffPost Live and Fox; and conducted interviews with major and alternative media, including the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Forbes and The Guardian. She is also featured in the documentary Deep Web.  

    Our conversation today focuses primarily on the details and facts of Ross’s case, including the incredible story leading to his arrest and the dangerous legal precedent it sets. Without further ado, here is Lynn Ulbricht. You can get more information about Ross’ case and the petition to free him at FreeRoss.org.