Not Simple

"Carolyn and I got excited about the question of how does your body know how to handle complexity in ways that are exciting and useful and even joyful—and how can you amplify that?"

Wendy is back in the host's chair, talking to her longtime friends and colleagues about their book, Unleash Your Complexity Genius: Growing Your Inner Capacity to Lead. They cover action urges, the power of noticing, and the genius of breath, dance, and laughter.

"What we’re seeing as we start to humanise organizations is this acknowledgment that actually leadership exists within everyone."

Leanne Holdsworth and Naryan Wong recently led their Cultivating Leadership colleagues in a research and writing project that resulted in the book Human Work: Five Leadership Mindsets for Humanising Workplaces. They share those mindsets with Rebecca and discuss the ripples unleashed when work is truly human.

Their book is available now. Learn more and connect with The Human Work Network here.

"I think we do ourselves such a disservice to not acknowledge that iterative process, to just pretend that it’s yes/no, black/white. It’s never been the world we live in, but it certainly isn’t now."

Jarel LaPan Hill, the former city manager of the City of Santa Fe, NM, shares the complexity lessons learned managing an organization through Covid and how we might carry them forward.

“I spent two decades writing prescriptions… and it occurred to me that what determined somebody’s health was really what they were doing between visits.”



Dr. Eileen O’Grady is a nurse practitioner, a wellness coach, and the author of Choosing Wellness: Unconventional Wisdom for the Overwhelmed, the Discouraged, the Addicted, the Fearful, or the Stuck. She joined Rebecca and Diana to discuss often overlooked facets of well-being like setting boundaries, parenting, and dealing with difficult people.

“We tend to think if we send teachers off to a two day workshop magically they’ll come back to the classroom and be able to do something different that will impact the lives of children.”

Dr. Jennie Snyder, deputy superintendent for instructional services for the Sonoma County Office of Education and longtime educator, talks to Wendy about enacting change in education and the difference made by approaching things with a spirit of experimentation and curiosity.

"There is so much emergent change that’s happening around us, so we need every piece of this human condition to be able to be okay and to thrive and to be resilient."


Dr. Ciela Hartanov is the founder of humcollective, and her book, Reclaiming Sensitivity, will be out in the new year. She and Wendy discuss how we have oversimplified the idea of sensitivity and what we may gain by embracing it in all of its complexity and messiness.

“We try to help people ask additional questions, to say ‘How might I work differently than Wendy and how can I take a couple of steps to be closer to where she is so that our differences can be strengths?’”

Parker Mitchell is the founder of Valence, a software company specializing in building stronger teams. He joined Wendy to talk about teamwork—especially how to help individuals work with a wider diversity of styles and approaches.

“The world doesn’t allow a lot of room for messiness these days, as messy as the world is.”

Sarah Dasher is a communications professional, a college professor, and a person living in recovery. She and Rebecca talk about the dual issues of stigma and disclosure for people in recovery—and living with chronic illness.

"Every moment in my life where I’ve learned some massive truth or had some big epiphany has always been in some small group or coffee shop experience. Human connection is ridiculously important to me."

TJ Fairchild, founder and CEO of Commonplace Coffee, has a mission to create environments that foster human connection. He and Wendy discuss the many things that go into running a successful, purposeful business.

“The world demands that all leaders be inclusive leaders. If we’re not leading inclusively, we’re really not leading in some crucial dimension.”

Not Simple welcomed Cultivating Leadership colleague and founder of Flourishing Gays Dominic Longo to discuss how organizations compartmentalize leadership development and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion efforts and to consider what happens when individuals step fully into who they are as humans and leaders.

“I see democracy as a reflection of and a demonstration of how much we value each other as human beings. And in that light, it is very relational. It is very interdependent.”

Not Simple welcomes back Greg Thomas and Jewel Kinch-Thomas of The Jazz Leadership Project and executive coach Amiel Handelsman to talk about all the things democracy entails beyond voting.

Learn more about their upcoming course, Stepping Up - Wrestling with America’s Past, Reimagining Its Future, Healing Together here.

“As women, when you carry a daughter, you’re also carrying your grandchildren… so having a quality experience of pregnancy will impact two generations down the line.”

Kerry Arabena is the Managing Director of First 1000 Days Australia, which focuses on a child’s first 1000 days, from preconception to age two, as a way of strengthening Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander families. She came to Not Simple with infectious joy and an abundance of complexities, including modern matriarchy, intergenerational trauma, the undervalued role of men in families, and so much more.

“You don’t always know exactly what to expect, but you know that everyone is bringing their best to that moment and so then what is created is something that is reflective of all of those bests coming together."

Jewel Kinch-Thomas and Greg Thomas are the co-founders of the Jazz Leadership Project, which uses the principles and practices of jazz to help companies and individuals work better. They’re tired of people minimizing jazz's importance with phrases like "Jazz is just... " and spend their half hour with Wendy uncovering the many, many things jazz is and does.

“We are the largest incarcerator in the world. That is our response to everything. I think it is the place where we cannot afford to oversimplify anymore.”

Monica Hopkins is the executive director of the ACLU of the District of Columbia, and she came to Not Simple to talk about the US criminal justice system. What unfolded was a conversation about culture clashes, unpacking our reactions to behavior we don't understand, and the value of knowing our neighbors.

“The more complex work that I’ve tried to do is to really dig into those unwanted identities… and say, ‘Well, is it really true that I’m a burden to others?’”

Rachel Simmons, coach and author, stopped by to explore our oversimplified binary of capable/needy and why it's so hard to ask for help.

“Even that simplifies the process; it’s just a box and a name on a tree and then you pick up the phone and there’s a voice on the other end of it and it alters the landscape just a hair.”

Tom Draffen is a retired Marine Corps air traffic controller and a coach/consultant. He joined Wendy to discuss the complexities of sealed records, discovered siblings, and what it means to have a both/and family.

“What we find is that there are three aspects of life that they are good at nurturing… performance or achievement, personal growth, and well-being.”



Nicolai Tillisch is a colleague at Cultivating Leadership and the co-author of the best-selling book Return On Ambition. Here he introduces us to the seven frenemies, tools for goal-setting, and the many ways we oversimplify ambition.

“The problem with strategic planning in a pandemic is there are so many different elements in there that impact our ability to have student achievement, but we can’t lose sight of that goal.”



Six months after she first spoke to Wendy about the complexities of reopening school during Covid, elementary and middle school principal Aletha Snowberger returns to update us on how things are going.

“I’m trying to say yes to the things that bring me more joy.”

After a long hiatus, Not Simple is back with producer Rebecca Scott, a Leadership Coach and part of the Catalyst team at Cultivating Leadership, joining Wendy to unpack the complexities of setting boundaries.

“Public health is happening in communities, in neighborhoods, where you live, where you work, and there’s not really enough appreciation for that.”

Epidemiologist April Carson joins Wendy to discuss public health and the complexity of getting people to listen to simple messages—especially during COVID.