Open Mike Podcast

Chris Quinn and Terry Johnson represent the Hill and Wuestenberg families who are on opposing sides of a prominent felonious assault case. Jillian and Eric Wuestenberg, are a white couple who allegedly pulled guns on the Hills, a black family, in the parking lot of a Chipotle. A video of the incident, filmed by one of the Hill daughters, went viral soon after.

On this episode of Open Mike, Chris and Terry tell Mike their respective sides of the story. Chris claims this incident is proof of racial bias in America while Terry believes the Wuestenbergs were acting in self-defense. Tune in to hear both sides of the argument in this special two-part episode.

Show Notes

[0:01] Mike Introduces Hill vs Wuestenberg case where a gun was pulled in a Chipotle parking lot

[2:14] Chris Quinn is the Hill family’s lawyer

[2:54] What happened to your clients, the Hill family?

[4:13] Watch the video of the altercation here

[6:22] Did both of the Wuestenbergs have guns?

[6:44] In an incident between an adult and a fifteen-year-old, the adult should be responsible

[7:33] What did the fifteen-year-old say?

[8:15] Ms. Hill never threatened violence

[9:14] Being rude doesn’t give someone the right to threaten someone with a gun

[10:55] Did the Wuestenbergs have licenses to carry

[11:19] What is Felonious Assault?

[12:48] When is the first court date?

[13:20] The current crisis of unarmed Black people having guns pulled on them

[15:49] The Wuestenberg’s attorney’s response to accusations of racism

[16:57] The Wuestenbergs felt pulling a gun on an unarmed mother and daughter was justified

[17:31] Have your clients considered filing a civil suit as well?

[18:46] If you could ask the Wuestenbergs one question, what would it be?

[19:25] Do you have any parting thoughts on this?

[20:14] Thank you for watching Chris Quinn’s interview on Open Mike, stay tuned for an interview with the Wuestenberg’s attorney

[20:21] Introducing the Wuestenberg’s attorney, Terry Johnson

[21:13] What is your day to day law practice like?

[22:17] Check out Terry’s website here

[22:39] If the Wuestenbergs had been members of Fire Arms Legal, what would happen?

[23:21] Is there more to this story that isn’t in the video?

[24:41] The Wuestenbergs claim that there was no bumping inside Chipotle

[32:23] Did the police show up at the scene?

[32:50] When can someone pull a gun on someone?

[33:57] How could the Hills have caused serious bodily harm?

[37:12] What were the charges against your clients?

[39:55] Terry explains his quotes about how Eric and Jillian Hill’s lives have changed

[42:44] If the Hills had been white, would your client have pulled a gun?

[44:53] How long ago was the incident?

[45:58] No one is considering why the Hills made the bump a problem in the first place or filmed it

[48:35] How would you tell your firearm student to behave in Ms. Hill’s situation?

[50:30] Watch Mike’s interviews with Karen McDonald and Jessica Cooper

[51:27] Terry believes that the current political climate has affected this case

[52:40] Shootings of unarmed Black people in America

[58:40] Thank you for watching this episode of the Open Mike podcast!

Megan Diebboll and Asia Johnson are Bail Disruptors who work with The Bail Project in Detroit. They interview candidates and provide up to $5,000 in bail to those who cannot afford it. Megan and Asia are working to end the bail system, which they believe is ineffective and discriminatory against poor Americans.

In this episode of Open Mike, Megan and Asia explain the purpose of the Bail Project and how they got involved. They address the claims that bail guarantees court attendance and speculate on how COVID-19 is affecting local jails. Megan and Asia tell Mike about the life-changing impact freedom before a trial can have.

Show Notes

[0:03] Introducing today’s guests Megan Diebboll and Asia Johnson of the Detroit Bail Project

[1:00] Mike has been diving into the problems in the criminal justice system on the show recently

[2:50] If 92% of people who can’t post bail plead guilty

[3:54] What is The Bail Project?

[4:49] They’ve had to help people who had bail set at one dollar

[5:23] Do judges realize that people can’t pay the one- or ten-dollar bond?

[6:57] Why are people who don’t make bail more likely to be convicted?

[7:40] What does the bail project do in Detroit?

[9:39] If you have a loved one in need of help with bail call 323-366-0799 or visit their website

[10:05] Is there any reason you wouldn’t provide bail?

[11:27] Over 90% of the people they help still come to their court date

[12:30] Money is recycled through the bail project so it can help multiple people each year. Donate here.

[13:11] What is a Bail Disruptor?

[13:47] If someone is dangerous, it shouldn’t matter if they are rich

[14:26] Megan, why did you join the bail project?

[15:04] Asia, why did you join the bail project?

[16:43] How do for-profit bail bonds agents work?

[19:20] Mike wants to help them get the word out

[19:50] Taxpayers spend 14 billion dollars every year holding people before trial

[21:36] The pandemic is likely making more people plead guilty because social distancing is hard in jail

[23:21] Can you each tell the most impactful story you’ve seen from bailing people out?

[26:29] Please tell any defense attorney or incarcerated people that you know about the Bail Project

[27:16] Mike wants his daughters to grow up to do things this important and impactful

[29:12] Thank you for watching this episode of the Open Mike podcast!

David Carroll is a nationally recognized expert in court system reform and the delivery of good counsel services. He works with the Sixth Amendment Center to ensure that people accused of crimes have access to adequate legal representation.

In this episode of Open Mike, David tells Mike about the Michigan Justice system’s recent improvements after a report that his organization made on the state. They also discuss the inherent problem of bail and how court-appointed lawyers are too overworked to provide good counsel. Tune in to this insightful episode to learn about the problems with our criminal justice system and what needs to be done to fix it.

Show Notes

[0:06] Introducing today’s guest, David Carroll

[1:39] What is the Sixth Amendment Center?

[3:05] Bad lawyering is a common cause for wrongful conviction

[4:36] Let’s talk about Michigan, how are we doing here?

[6:25] Can you talk about Wayne County’s Neighborhood Defender services?

[10:59] Wayne County fixed their system after a report by the Sixth Amendment center

[12:04] Do judges take claims of ineffective council seriously?

[14:16] Over 80% of people charged with felonies get government funded council

[14:42] Watch Mike’s conversation with Professor Primus here

[16:07] Watch Mike’s first interview with Kenny here and the follow up interview here

[17:17] “People can’t see the injustices around them”

[19:14] David encourages listeners to watch what happens in a real courtroom

[21:08] Financial conflict of interest in payment of attorneys in Wayne County

[22:43] Going to trial is not advantageous for court-appointed lawyers

[23:16] Wayne County is working to fix this

[25:33] What can people waiting for their trial do to help themselves?

[27:25] They would need to find a new attorney or contact the judge

[29:59] People who can’t post bail are more likely to plead guilty

[33:39] People sitting in jail are using taxpayer money

[34:46] Why are people allowed to have their bail set without an attorney present?

[36:07] Over 90% of the Bail Project’s clients show up to court

[39:21] David has seen Mike’s podcast with Kenny Wyniemko

[41:52] Have you seen Just Mercy yet?

[43:29] Check out the Sixth Amendment Center’s website

Thanks for watching this episode of Open Mike!

Karen McDonald is a new candidate running for Oakland Country Prosecutor in 2020 against the 12-year incumbent prosecutor, Jessica Cooper. She has experience working in the prosecutor’s office and as a judge in Oakland County Circuit Court. Karen is dedicated to reforming our criminal justice system and keeping Oakland County safe.

On this episode of Open Mike, Karen explains how her stances on important issues differ from her opponents’. She answers questions about wrongful convictions, unfair bail practices, and marijuana expungements. Tune in to hear more about Karen’s plans to revolutionize the Oakland County Prosecutor’s office.

[0:05] Introducing today’s guest, Karen McDonald

[0:51] Karen talks about stepping down from her position in the Oakland County Circuit Court

[3:17] Karen plans on being fully involved with treatment courts

[5:29] Over 90% of the people who don’t post bail plead guilty

[5:54] Check out the Detroit Bail Project

[7:04] People are denied due process because they are poor

[8:36] Can you explain the original basis for bail?

[12:00] Karen wants her prosecutors to attend arraignments and usually resist cash bail

[13:05] 93% of the Bail Project’s clients show up to their trial

[14:25] People should stay in jail if they are dangerous

[16:29] Having a democrat challenge a democrat who is 12 years incumbent is strange

[16:46] Kym Worthy endorsed Karen

[17:02] Making wrongful convictions right is important to Mike

[18:32] Watching what Jessica Cooper said about wrongful convictions

[20:51] Asking Karen the same question

[25:25] Prosecutors should have enough integrity to admit mistakes

[26:43] Wrongful conviction is not a partisan issue

[28:05] Mike is switching his vote to Karen

[28:29] What did you think of the prosecutor in Kenny Wyniemko’s case?

[29:57] The Prosecutor has to focus on justice and not winning

[34:08] Wrongful convictions mean the real criminal goes free

[36:08] How to balance protecting victims and not jumping to conclusions?

[37:52] Kenny stood up for Carl Marlinga because he didn’t know what the prosecutor was doing

[41:46] Can you talk about marijuana expungements?

[43:57] When you become Oakland County prosecutor you won’t contest marijuana expungements?

[44:58] Do you want to point out any other differences between you and Jessica Cooper?

[47:26] Thank you for watching this episode of Open Mike!

Lawyer Marc Mendelson has worked at the Mike Morse Law Firm for 17 years. In this episode, Marc joins Mike to explain Michigan’s new No-Fault law that goes into effect in July 2020. They go over who the new law really benefits and why consumers are unlikely to receive the savings they were promised. Marc also points out that Motorcyclists will now be forced to play a game of chance with their benefits. Having seen how quickly medical bills can burn through insurance money, Mike passionately encourages Michiganders to keep their unlimited coverage.

[0:01] Michigan’s No-Fault Insurance law changes on July 1st, 2020

[1:10] Introducing today’s guest, Marc Mendelson

[1:45] Can you explain the new insurance policies? Which one do you recommend?

[3:13] Are there any caps on previous No-Fault policies?

[3:37] Are citizens discouraged from choosing unlimited plans?

[5:06] The cost reductions only apply to Personal Injury Protection (PIP) which is about 35% of the policy

[6:30] Does everyone have to change their car insurance on July 1st?

[7:41] What happens when the No-Fault insurance money runs out?

[9:10] What new No-Fault coverage options are available?

[10:56] “This whole thing is a scam”

[12:14] What is the Managed Care option?

[14:03] Motorcyclists have no control over the benefits they get

[15:36] How will 3rd Party Liability Insurance change?

[16:50] Marc advocates for high Uninsured Motorists and Underinsured Motorists coverage

[18:24] What changed with how Medical Providers can claim payment?

[19:12] People are going to lose everything if their bills go above their coverage

[20:19] If you are in a car accident, be honest with your insurance agent

[21:02] Tips to save money on car insurance

[22:38] Thank you for tuning in to the Open Mike podcast and please choose unlimited coverage. Learn more about the new No-Fault law here

University of Michigan Law Professor Eve Primus is the founder and director of the school’s MDefenders- a group which educates aspiring public defenders. She is a highly acclaimed lawyer whose work has been cited by the US Supreme Court. Having worked with the Maryland Office of the Public Defender and written about structural reform in the criminal justice system, Professor Primus is an expert on the systemic problems that have led to so many wrongful convictions.

In this episode of the Open Mike podcast, Mike and Professor Primus discuss the prevalence of ineffective counsel and how essential lawyers are in protecting their clients’ rights. Professor Primus also brings up the different systems for public defense in America and gives her opinion on which is the most effective. Mike explains how court-appointed lawyers are often discouraged from putting adequate time and energy into their cases.

Director of the Detroit Coalition Against Police Brutality, Chris White, recently joined Mike and Kevin to discuss the recent protests around the country. Chris has been an activist for 36 years with several Detroit organizations. He also teaches classes on political science and business. Chris’ organization has recently been involved with advising Detroit protestors on their demands and conduct.

Mike and Kevin ask Chris about the killing of Rayshard Brooks in Atlanta and what flaws in the police training may have led up to it. Chris also discusses the claim that a good portion of Detroit protestors are not city natives and shares his opinion that outsiders should be welcome to protest. Tune in to hear about Chris’ passionate fight against police brutality and what changes he believes need to be made in order to achieve equity.

[0:14] Introducing today’s guest, the director of the Detroit Coalition Against Police Brutality, Chris White.

[1:19] What is Chris’ background?

[2:58] What are you seeing in Atlanta?

[5:55] Are people unified in what they’re fighting for?

[8:47] Has your organization been involved with the Detroit protests?

[10:21] Has your organization been meeting with city leadership?

[12:02] Why is your organization against Project Greenlight?

[13:02] The problems with facial recognition technology

[14:11] What do you think about outsiders coming to protest in Detroit?

[17:15] The Shelby Township Police Chief was suspended but not fired

[18:04] What is your opinion on Rayshard Brooks?

[19:44] What is something the Detroit Police do well?

[20:28] How long has the idea of defunding the police been around?

[22:55] You can contact the Detroit Coalition Against Police Brutality at: 313-778-4993 or on their Facebook page.

[23:37] Thank you for being on today, Chris, we would love to have you on again as things progress

[24:19] Thank you for watching this episode of the Open Mike podcast

Emmy award winning television journalist Chris Hansen has returned for his second appearance on Open Mike. Raised in Southeast Michigan, Chris is well known for his segment on Dateline NBC: To Catch a Predator. He has been continuing to give a voice to victims through his YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/chrishansen

In this episode, Chris updates Mike on the allegations regarding Youtuber Onision, and he brings to light the horrific claims made against Dahvie Vanity, a hairstylist and musician from the now disbanded group Blood on the Dance Floor. Chris also emphasizes the importance of journalism in the investigation of potential predators.

Bill Proctor is a member of the Michigan Association of Broadcasters Hall of Fame. He was a reporter with WXYZ news for 33 years and founded “Proving Innocence,” a project to help support people who have been wrongfully convicted after exoneration as well as investigative work. He now works directly with people who need help proving their innocence. Check out https://www.seekingjusticebp.com for more.

Mike and Kevin talk to Bill to discuss his long career of helping those wronged by the justice system. Bill shares his expertise on the national innocence movement and the projects in Michigan dedicated to helping those who are innocent. Bill also shares his frustration with the “bad science” in police work that is being reconsidered and coming to terms with the shortcomings of the justice system. His stories of these wrongfully convicted people are heartbreaking and eye-opening.

[00:34] Introducing today’s guest Bill Proctor

[01:41] We have previously done podcasts on Aaron Saulter and Kenny Wanico who were both wrongly convicted

[02:21] The bad lawyering that goes on is heartbreaking

[02:33] “What made you form ProvingInnocence.org and why are you spending your retirement years helping to free innocent people?”

[02:50] This began with the case of Temujin Kensu (Frederick Thomas Freeman)

[03:40] Proving Innocence has provided money to people who leave the prison system without even pocket change

[03:59] Proving Innocence is a support organization to help people released from prison and those who have been wrongfully convicted

[04:38] www.SeekingJusticebp.com is an organization that talks about what is current  

[05:53] There is even a level of criminality when it comes to failure of police, prosecutors and politics

[06:52] Michigan has the Innocence Clinic at UofM Law School and an Innocence Project at Cooley Law School that have lawyers actively working on these cases

[07:22] The University of Michigan Innocence Clinic is essentially a UofM Law School created element for teaching young lawyers

[08:08] Cooley Law is connected to the Innocence Project in New York.

[08:20] The University of Michigan Innocence Clinic does not look at DNA while Cooley Law does use DNA evidence

[09:24] These organizations all stem from the OJ Simpson trial

[11:40] It takes an average 11 years for someone who is actually innocent to get in front of a judge or to have someone review their claim of innocence

[15:17] Sometimes the public’s need for information made the police do things they shouldn’t have done for example Lamarr Monson who was convicted of murder in the death of Christina Brown

[17:04] “Over and over and over again in the Detroit Police Department I hear about confessions that the people who signed them insist were not true”

[22:02] Is police misconduct as prevalent today as it was back in the day before federal oversight?

[24:27] Poor people are not getting quality legal assistance

[25:02] There are so many cases that the attorneys don’t have the time or the ability to ask good questions

[28:46] Walter Swift and Kensu had horrible lawyers who have both been disbarred

[29:38] Lawrence Greene had been disbarred twice

[31:30] “How do you get the attention of the judges to take these cases seriously?”

[35:43] Is there any validity to the claims that Judge Cleland does not want Kensu released?

[37:18] John Engler barred news cameras from Michigan prisons forever

[38:03] Do you think that this would happen if there wasn’t so much police immunity?

[41:21] If we were to get rid of immunity would the police be more honest if they were fearful of a civil lawsuit?

[44:06] what is the jailhouse snitch situation?

[51:05] It’s important for the media to call out these wrongful convictions

[54:44] Real scientific evidence is before ignored

[55:31] “In your expertise around the world of wrongful convictions, Is there systemic racism?”

[57:32] What are your opinions on defunding the police?

[1:01:17] Should we open the doors to those who are imprisoned for marijuana offenses?

[1:03:16] What are the best wrongful conviction organizations someone could support?

[1:05:15] “Tell our listeners what www.SeekingJusticeBP.org is all about”

[1:06:48] The Mike Morse Law Firm wants to help support your organization’s efforts and would like to talk about a program to match contributions

[1:09:16] People need to read these stories and watch “The Innocence Files” on Netflix

[1:16:30] Concluding remarks

Ken Wyniemko is back for the first-ever part two episode on OpenMike. Ken served nine years in prison for a rape and burglary he didn’t commit. In this episode, Ken is joined by Jerry Innes who was a juror that voted to convict Ken in his original case. Jerry appeared in the Netflix special “The Innocence Files” and has become a friend of Ken’s despite being a reason Ken went to prison for nine years.

This episode is full of unbelievable coincidence and forgiveness. Mike and Kevin ask questions about the legal process and experience of Jerry as a juror and Ken clears up rumors he has heard along the way about the jury. The emotion of both Jerry and Ken is seen throughout this informative and groundbreaking podcast on criminal justice reform.

“The baddest of the bad boys,” Rick Mahorn needs no introduction in the Detroit community. He was instrumental in the 1989 Detroit Pistons National Championship. Since his retirement from basketball, he has become a figure in the Detroit community and has stuck around to raise his children in a city that has become his home.

Kevin and Mike talk to Rick on this episode about his basketball career, the national championship, and discuss the state of the NBA today. Rick also shares his thoughts on the current protests and the death of George Floyd. Listen to hear an important community leader share his experiences with racism and speak from the heart about a tough issue.

In another timely episode of OpenMike, Detroit Chief of Police James Craig joins Mike Morse and Kevin Dietz to talk about the current Detroit protests. They discuss curfews, the state of violence throughout the protests in Detroit, and the murder of George Floyd. Chief Craig talks about his early days on the police force and feeling unwelcome as a black man and the inspiration from his father to change the institution from within. He was one of the first police chiefs across the country to call the killing of George Floyd a murder and he explains why he was so quick to do it.

Stay tuned for more on this topic and subscribe to our channel for more stories regarding the protests in Detroit.

In a special live episode, Mike Morse and Kevin Dietz talk to two Detroit reporters who are in the middle of the Detroit anti-racism protests, BridgeDetroit Senior Reporter, Louis Aguilar and Detroit News Reporter, Christine MacDonald. MacDonald was detained on May 31st briefly due to filming an arrest. She highlights how reporters can be targeted by cops because the cops believe they are reporting negatively about them. They talk about their experience in the crowds and their opinions on city curfews. Both reporters have unique perspectives on the situation and give useful historical context.

Stay tuned for more on this topic and subscribe to our channel for more stories regarding the protests in Detroit.

Sherry Gay-Dagnogo is a Democratic member of the Michigan House of Representatives, representing the 8th District since 2015. She was a former Detroit Public School science teacher and has served as the Urban Education Advisory Reform chair for the House. She is a mother to her son and is known for being outspoken and honest.

Sherry joins OpenMike again for an honest discussion on Kwame Kilpatrick. She addresses the recent rumors regarding Kwame’s release and gives insider details on the story. Mike, Kevin, and Sherry discuss varying views on Kwame’s release and get into a passionate discussion regarding prisoners who cannot social distance during COVID 19.

Ken Wyniemko served nine years in prison for a rape he did not commit. A former bowling manager and General Motors employee, Ken believes he was targeted by Clinton Township police. Ken has since been exonerated for this crime and the real rapist has confessed after Ken’s own legislation reform caught him. Ken now works with the Innocence Project to help other innocent men and women get out of prison. Carl Marlinga is a Macomb County judge and was the Prosecutor at the time of Ken’s sentencing. Carl was unaware of the injustice in Ken’s case and since finding out has been one of Ken’s biggest supporters.

Mike and Kevin sat down with Ken and Carl to figure out how and why this injustice happened to Carl. They discuss the recent Netflix series, “The Innocence Files” which has an episode dedicated to Ken’s story. They also analyze the evidence and testimony to figure out how the legal system can be improved for future cases. This is a story of forgiveness, systemic change, and steadfastness through the worst circumstances.

In this episode, Mike Morse and Kevin Dietz sit down with Crain’s Detroit Reporter Chad Livengood and Detroit businessman Dennis Archer Jr. to talk about Mike’s recent announcement to return the $2 million his firm received through the Payroll Protection Program.

Mike answers questions about why he applied for the loan and what business looks like two months into the pandemic. Dennis shares his thoughts on the PPP loan program, Mike’s decision to give it back, how relationships with your bank affect the likelihood of getting approved, and when is the right time for restaurants to reopen.

Mike Cox is a former prosecutor and served as Michigan’s 52nd Attorney General. He obtained both his undergraduate and law degree from the University of Michigan after serving in the U.S. Marine Corps. He currently runs a private practice firm which takes clients with a wide variety of case types.

In this episode, Mike Morse and Kevin Dietz sit down with Mike Cox to learn more about his career and talk about his current work. Mike Cox represents over fifty “John Doe” sexual abuse claims against a University of Michigan doctor. There has been a widespread cover-up of this doctor’s illegal behavior for decades and the situation was recently exposed in a Detroit News article. This episode dives deep into specific case details and analyzes the trend of sexual assault cases in college athletics.

Josh Linkner is a renowned speaker, entrepreneur, jazz guitarist, and “Creative Troublemaker.” He is the founder of 5 tech companies which have combined sold for $200 million dollars and has helped launch and grow 100 start-ups. A New York Times Best-Selling author and recipient of a US Presidential Champion of Change award presented by Barak Obama; Josh is more than just an average businessman. He is currently working as the Founder and Partner of Detroit Venture Partners and as Chairman and Co-Founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation, research, training, and consulting firm.

What makes a wildly successful person? Mike and Kevin sit down with Josh Linkner to talk about the differences between creativity and innovation, the importance of listening, and how to make the most of your extra time during the coronavirus. Josh’s love of pizza and Detroit roots shine through to reveal a relatable guy who explains that entrepreneurship is accessible and realistic to all whether it’s starting a business, improving a current business, or making productive changes in your personal life.

Joel Kurth is a veteran journalist who worked at the Detroit News for over 17 years and has spent the past three years as managing editor at Bridge Magazine, a publication focused on Michigan’s diverse people, politics and economy.

Joel recently joined Mike and Kevin Dietz on Open Mike to discuss Governor Whitmer's response to Coronavirus, how the pandemic has impacted the newspaper industry, and why he believes racial disparities played a role in the state being hit so hard. He also shares his view on how this crisis will change society moving forward, particularly for schools.

As COVID-19 claims the lives of many of the elderly in Michigan and around the world, funeral homes are being forced to put new rules in place to appropriately respond to the crisis.

Paddy Lynch, third generation owner and operator of Lynch & Sons Funeral Directors, recently joined Mike and Kevin Dietz on Open Mike to give an exclusive look into what funeral homes and the families of the recently deceased are experiencing as they carry out funeral services and mourn their loved ones with recent COVID-19 guidelines in place. Lynch also shares his thoughts on pre-paid vs pre-planned funerals and talks about his family’s crazy connection to the show Six Feet Under!