Spiritual Life and Leadership

In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the transformative power of vocation as they discuss a poignant quote by Steven Garber. Join them as they unpack how each person's calling is  woven into the very meaning of God's work in the world. They shed light on the profound implications of vocation for spiritual formation, the vitality of the church, and the overarching mission of God. With engaging anecdotes and thought-provoking insights, this discussion promises to spark a deeper understanding of vocation's profound impact on individual lives and the collective mission of the church.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Scott Thumma in Episode 157: Seamless Leadership:

“Vocation is integral—not incidental—to the missio dei, to the very meaning of God’s work in the world.” 
 

THIS EPISODES' HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Every Christian has a calling to participate in God's mission to bring renewal to the world.
• Our sense of calling is not just about our career or job but is integral to our identity.
• Every person's vocation, whether paid or unpaid, is sacred and important in the eyes of God.
• God chooses to use us in His work to restore and renew the world.
• Vocation involves developing the capacity to hear God's voice and discern our unique calling in life.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

When I walked the Camino de Santiago in 2022, it was something I had been longing to do for years.  After a fairly traumatic experience at a church I'd been serving, the thought of just walking with Jesus for an extended time felt like exactly what I needed.

I walked the Camino together with Jon Huckins, the founder and Director of Journey Home.  In this episode, Jon unpacks why pilgrimmage is so meaningful and how it can help those of us in leadership to be our best selves for the sake of those we're leading, for the world, and for ourselves.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Jon Huckins is founder and Director of Journey Home and is adjunct professor of New Testament at Point Loma Nazarene University.
• Jon Huckins describes the transition to the second half of life as a shift from doing to being and embracing one's identity as deeply loved by God.
• The Camino de Santiago pilgrimage is presented as a crucial tool for self-reflection, challenging external expectations, and engaging spiritual awakening.
• The transition from leading Global Immersion to starting Journey Home reflects Huckins' focus on facilitating societal and individual healing.
• Jon Huckins shares the profound influence the Camino pilgrimage has had on his ministry and his dedication to the work of peacemaking.
• The Camino serves as a means for intentional dislocation to face oneself and the authentic realitiies of life.
• Huckins comments on the distinct challenges faced by pastors and ministry leaders in an era where their conventional roles are questioned.
• Pilgrimage, according to Jon Huckins, is linked to the process of acknowledging and grieving loss, while also confronting the resistance to change in our ministries.
• Becoming second-half-of-life individuals allows for more resilience and a generous, open-hearted approach to leadership.
• Jon Huckins emphasizes the significance of spaces like the Camino for transformation, focusing on experiencing rather than decision-making.
• Jon Huckins highlights the transformative power of being fully present and releasing control, as experienced on the Camino.
• The mission of Journey Home aims to facilitate pilgrimages that act as vehicles for healing and development for leaders.
• Jon Huckins stresses the importance of pilgrimages like the Camino in aiding Christian leaders through their spiritual and emotional development.
• The challenges of ministry require spaces and practices that support healing and rejuvenation.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• JourneyHome:
  • Website – Journeyhome.info
  • Instagram - @journey_home_pilgrimages
• Books mentioned:
  • Falling Upward, by Richard Rohr
  • Leadership on the Line, by Ronald Heifetz
• Related episodes:
  • Ep 163: You Can’t Be Found if You’re Never Lost, with Steve Carter
  • Ep 112: The Beatitudes and Spiritual Leadership, with Mark Scandrette
• Church leadership Institute
• Global Immersion

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the concept of disequilibrium and its impact on systems, leadership, and organizational health. They discuss how prolonged equilibrium can be detrimental to a system's ability to adapt and innovate, and how crises and moments of disequilibrium can actually reveal underlying problems and present opportunities for growth and change. Drawing from experiences and examples, they highlight the potential for systems and individuals to become stronger, more resilient, and healthier due to the experience of disequilibrium.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Markus Watson in Episode 139: Disequilibrium and the Mission of God :

"When a system experiences disequilibrium, the system has the opportunity to become stronger, to become more resilient, and even to become healthier." 


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Experiencing disequilibrium allows a system to become stronger, more resilient, and healthier.
• Prolonged equilibrium can lead to a loss of ability to adapt.
• Crises reveal opportunities to hit the organizational reset button and address underlying issues.
• Disequilibrium can lead to increased capacity and clarity in dealing with crisis and making hard decisions.
• Disequilibrium or crisis provides opportunities to make a system stronger.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Would your neighborhood even notice if your church ceased to exist?  I imagine that’s a question many of us have thought about.  Maybe you’ve even posed that question to your congregation.

Maybe the question should be, as churches, how do we become more present to our neighborhood.?  That’s what I talk about in this episode with my guest, Tim Soerens, the author of Everywhere You Look: Discovering the Church Right Where You Are.

Tim walks us through his shift from wanting to be a big church pastor to learning what it means to truly embody the Christian narrative in our neighborhoods. And he helps us better understand the concept of a parish and what it means to have a “minimum viable presence” in your community.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Tim Soerens emphasizes the need to listen and understand the specific hopes and dreams God has for both communities and individuals.
• He advises on discerning how to actively address the particular needs and challenges within a neighborhood or parish.
• The conversation delves into determining a parish's boundaries, considering factors like centers of activity, edges, and resident affiliation.
• Soerens notes the complexities in identifying a parish in suburban and rural settings, influenced by architectural designs and local governance.
• Markus Watson discusses the varied needs of communities in serving their neighborhoods effectively.
• Tim Soerens suggests congregations often comprise multiple parishes, sparking discussion on discerning their locations.
• Soerens introduces the idea of a 'minimum viable presence' for church experimentation, akin to the business concept of a 'minimum viable product.'
• He highlights the value of small, experimental initiatives to understand better what works in community outreach.
• The discussion encourages involving others in these small experiments and celebrating the courage it takes to try new approaches.
• They stress the freedom to experiment without the fear of failure, emphasizing that each community requires a tailored approach.
• Soerens recommends starting outreach efforts with curiosity, prayer, and involving others in experimental activities.
• Tim Soerens shares insights into The Parish Collective's mission and upcoming events, inviting listeners to connect.
• He recounts a pivotal interaction with Michael Frost that steered him away from preaching-centric community formation to joining what God is already doing.
• The conversation touches on the formation of The Parish Collective, which encourages congregations to align their ecclesial life around joining God's work.
• Soerens advocates for a vision of the church that transcends Sunday services, focusing instead on being actively involved in God's hopes and dreams for neighborhoods.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Parish Collective Website
• Books Mentioned:
  • Everywhere You Look, by Tim Soerens
• Related episodes:
  • Episode 129: Recalibrating the Church Around Jesus, with Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch Episode 185: From Sunday Services to Real Transformation, with E.K. Strawser 
  • Episode 177: Exploring New Forms of Church, with Shannon Kiser
  • Episode 191: Thriving Church Leadership in Uncertain Times, with Heather James

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the technological challenges faced by congregations during the pandemic. They discuss a quote from Scott Thumma about the hybrid and customizable nature of the world and its implications for congregations. Tod shares insights on the importance of aligning values with technological adaptations, the decreasing willingness to change post-pandemic, and the need for enduring long-term adaptation. Together, they discuss practical strategies for pastors to navigate these challenges and ensure congregations reflect the ever-changing world.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Scott Thumma in Episode 198: Clergy, Congregations, and Hope After the Pandemic:

“Our world is customizable. It is on demand.  It is hybrid.  It’s virtual as much as it is in person. In the rest of our lives we’ve come to understand that’s how the rest of the world works. So, we really have to think about how do we make our congregations reflect that.” 


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Scott Thumma suggests that our world has become customizable, on-demand, and virtual, and calls for congregations to reflect the changes in the wider world.
• Tod Bolsinger emphasizes that adaptive leadership is not just about technical solutions, but about values, behaviors, and attitudes.
• The decrease in people's willingness to adapt beyond the crisis is observed, signifying the tendency to revert to the familiar when the crisis has passed.
• Wise and enduring change requires self-reflection and a shift from short-term crisis adaptations to long-term adaptation in a changing environment.
• Tod Bolsinger recommends that congregations start by identifying their deepest values and then being willing to change everything else to align with those values.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Barry Rowan has had a 40-year career in leading businesses after graduating from Harvard Business School. He and his wife are entering into a new encore calling, which includes his new book, The Spiritual Art of Business.

Barry Rowan, in this episode, challenges the dualism of the sacred and the secular, and shares his incredible journey of surrender, transformation, and integrating faith into his 40-year-business career. 


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Barry Rowan discusses the paradigm shift he experienced, realizing that life is lived from the inside out, with Jesus at the center of our lives, and everything being an expression of Christ in us.
• He challenges the dualism between the sacred and the secular, arguing that it causes problems and leads us to live outside of God's purposes.
• Barry Rowan points out that viewing work through the right lens can make every moment congruent with our purpose in life.
• Markus Watson reflects on the self-perception challenges people in the business world face, and Rowan emphasizes the need to bring meaning to work and view business roles as noble and sacred callings.
• Barry Rowan describes the purpose of business as responsible value creation, serving customers, creating an environment for employees to grow, and being a good corporate citizen, all contributing to a better society.
• Barry Rowan discusses how he approached his Christian beliefs in the workplace, explaining his focus on reflecting God's principles in business operations.
• The "spiritual art of business cycle," emphasizes surrender, transformation, becoming new creations, and going out into the world.
• Surrender is the gateway to freedom and leads to personal transformation and the expression of Christ in us.
• Markus Watson discusses the possibility of the cycle applying to organizations and churches, to which Rowan agrees and emphasizes the need for continuous reimagining and transformation, particularly in the current post-Christendom world.
• Developing a life-giving perspective of work is so important.
• Barry Rowan shares examples of individuals finding meaning and purpose in their work, such as a woman making baby monitors and a shuttle bus driver.
• They discuss how pastors can apply this perspective to their roles, emphasizing the need for personal internalization of their work's spiritual significance.
• Every moment can be charged with God's presence and we should incorporate that perspective into our daily activities.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Barry Rowan
  • Website – barrylrowan.com
  • Free The Spiritual Art of Business study guide
• Books mentioned:
  • The Spiritual Art of Business, by Barry Rowan
• Related Episodes:
  • Ep. 27: Developing a Framework for Intentional Spiritual Growth
  • Ep. 44: Spiritual Formation and Lectio Divina
  • Ep. 94: Centering Prayer
  • Ep. 126:  A Crisis of Adult Discipleship
  • Ep. 179:  The Neuroscience of Spiritual Formation
  • Ep. 194: Saudade, Leadership, and Nurturing the Inner Life

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the distinction between change and transition. Quoting D. Michael Lindsay, they discuss how change happens in an instant, whereas transition unfolds over weeks, months, and sometimes years. Bolstering this idea with personal anecdotes, they delve into the importance of giving oneself the time and space to adapt to change, acknowledging the losses involved, and ultimately finding comfort and growth in the new realities.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Sarah Bereza in Episode 142: Navigating the 7 Stages of Transition:

"Change happens to us in an instant.  Transition happens over weeks, months, sometimes even years." 


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Understanding the difference between change and transition is crucial for adapting to life's challenges.
• Acknowledging the loss and grief that come with change can help build resilience and lead to a quicker processing of the transition.
• Developing patience and perseverance involves recognizing the importance of giving oneself the space to adapt and acknowledging the honesty of what has been lost.
• Allowing the necessary time to adapt to change and transition is vital in order to be intentional and patient in dealing with life's challenges.
• Embracing the reality that transition takes time, and staying committed to the process can lead to a place of comfort and contentment in the new circumstances.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Michael Rhodes is lecturer in Old Testament at Carey Baptist College and the author of Just Discipleship:  Biblical Justice in an Unjust World.

From the biblical concept of justice and the role of worship in shaping our approach to justice, to the practicalities of addressing poverty and racial justice, Michael Rhodes takes us into the heart of what it means to live out just discipleship.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Michael Rhodes emphasizes the importance of incorporating themes of justice into worship and liturgy.
• Worship should create a demand among worshipers to get involved in God's mission of justice and bring the pain of the world into the center.
• The feasts in Deuteronomy are invitations to the good life and wise living, and they also address contemporary justice issues.
• Michael Rhodes highlights the concept of the "feast" and the importance of interacting with people not like oneself.
• Michael Rhodes suggests practical advice for overcoming obstacles, such as increasing proximity to those facing injustice and allowing scripture to unsettle and challenge unjust practices.
• Worship and prayer, such as the Psalms, play an important role in shaping perspectives on justice and discipleship.
• Michael Rhodes emphasizes the concept of tithing in Deuteronomy, where people are encouraged to use their tithe to have a feast before the Lord.
• The justice feast forms the community and the hearts of the individuals who participate, as it teaches them to fear the Lord and relate to God.
• Worship should create a demand among worshipers to get involved in God's mission of justice.
• Michael Rhodes points out the increasing lack of interaction between different economic classes in American society and suggests that proximity to those who are suffering is crucial.
• the justice feast in Deuteronomy highlights the concept of justice as the faithful exercise of power and just structures, including regular contributions for the poor and debt forgiveness laws.
• Michael Rhodes proposes practical advice for overcoming obstacles, such as increasing proximity to those facing injustice and allowing scripture to unsettle and challenge unjust practices.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Michael Rhodes:
  • Twitter - @michaeljrhodes
  • Carey Baptist College
• Books mentioned:
  • Just Discipleship, by Michael Rhodes
  • Practicing the King’s Economy, by Michael Rhodes and Robby Holt
• Related episodes:
  • Ep. 29: Serving the Poor and the Immigrant
  • Ep. 42: Speaking Out Against Injustice
  • Ep. 143: How the Church Can Respond to Immigration
  • Ep. 167: Called to Each Other

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the challenge of being fully authentic as a ministry leader. The conversation centers around a quote from Sara Bereza, highlighting the difficulty people in professional ministry face when trying to be their true selves. Through an exploration of the biblical story of Moses, Paul's writings in 2nd Corinthians, and personal anecdotes, Markus and Tod discuss the weight of wearing a facade and the importance of cultivating vulnerability, authenticity, and resilience in the ministry space. They emphasize the need for secure relationships and intentional efforts to be one's genuine self amidst the pressures and expectations of the ministry environment.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Sarah Bereza in Episode 141: Being Fully Yourself in Leadership:

“It can be really hard for people in the professional ministry space to be fully themselves.”


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• In professional ministry, being fully oneself can be challenging.
• Moses, a leader from the Bible, struggled with authenticity and wore a veil to hide his radiance.
• Trying to emulate other influential figures in ministry can be exhausting.
• Finding freedom and wholeness in leadership comes from embracing one's true self.
• Building secure relationships with partners, mentors, and friends is crucial for vulnerable leadership.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Scott Thumma is Professor of Sociology of Religion at Hartford International University and Director of the Hartford Institute for Religion Research.  Scott is also Principal Investigator of a study titled Exploring the Pandemic Impact on Congregations.

In this episode, Scott Thumma shares insights from that study, including the tension between clergy and congregations, the rise of hybrid worship, and the ongoing struggle to adapt to a changing world.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Scott Thumma emphasizes the resistance to change that clergy might within their congregations, attributing it to "suffering from whiplash."
• Congregations need to evolve and adapt in order to avoid obsolescence.
• Thumma noted the profound effect of the pandemic on congregational life during his sabbatical at the start of the pandemic, which resulted in a grant for a 5-year study.
• The Exploring the Pandemic Impact on Congregations study revealed both positive and troubling aspects of the pandemic's impact on congregational dynamics.
• Earlier in 2021, congregational life was at a low point, but there was a sense of community and rallying together to address the challenges.
• Many congregations have shifted back to in-person programs and meetings, finding in-person interactions to be richer and more robust.
• Scott Thumma points out that some functions, such as adult education and committee meetings, can function significantly better virtually.
• Scott Thumma emphasizes the importance of making congregations reflect the customizable and virtual nature of the modern era, and discusses how hybridity can expand the number of people serviced in a congregation and meet the expectations of visitors and new members.
• Scott Thumma acknowledges the collective trauma experienced during the pandemic, noting changes in behavior and a sense that "none of us are the same."
• Trends show that congregation sizes and average ages of attendees and pastors have continued to change, but the pandemic didn't radically impact the overall trajectory of the church.
• Scott Thumma is concerned about a decreasing willingness to change among congregations since the pandemic, leading to reluctance for continued adaptation and change.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Exploring the Pandemic Impact on Congregations REPORT
• Exploring the Pandemic Impact on Congreagions WEBSITE
• Exploring the Pandemic Impact on Congregations WEBINAR SERIES
• Hartford Institute for Religion Research
• Faith Communities Today
• Related episodes:
  • Ep. 153: Leadership in a Time of Declining Church Attendance, with Thom Rainer

Get Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson unpack a quote by Andy Crouch emphasizes the importance of finding the right meaningful risk in unlocking flourishing for both oneself and those entrusted to their care. Tod and Markus discuss the concept of meaningful risk as distinct from mere risk-taking, emphasizing the role of discernment in pursuing risks that are truly worth taking. They delve into the idea that meaningful vulnerability, willingly embraced for the sake of others' flourishing, is an essential aspect of leadership. Drawing on theological insights, they reflect on the example of God's meaningful risk in incarnating into the world, offering valuable perspectives on how to navigate fear and resistance to vulnerability in leadership.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Andy Crouch in Episode 113: Flourishing Leadership:

“Finding the right meaningful risk will unlock flourishing for you and the people you’re entrusted with.” 


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Finding the right meaningful risk unlocks flourishing for individuals and the people they're entrusted with.
• Leadership involves discerning what risks are meaningful and worth taking.
• Meaningful vulnerability is willingly allowing oneself to be vulnerable for the greater good and flourishing of others.
• Taking meaningful risks and embracing vulnerability reflects the wisdom and love of God.
• Resistance to vulnerability is common, but embracing meaningful risks can lead to unlocking new possibilities and flourishing in organizations and communities.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Todd Hunter leads Churches for the Sake of Others, a diocese of the Anglican Church in North America, and is the author of What Jesus Intended: Finding True Faith in the Rubble of Bad Religion.

In this episode, Todd Hunter and I discuss “bad religion,” “good religion,” and what it means to be the church God has called us to be. 


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Todd discusses "bad religion," referring to church actions that harm people, including sexual and financial scandals and misuse of power.
• He shares personal experiences of witnessing bullying and manipulation within charismatic and Pentecostal circles.
• The conversation explores the historical existence of bad religion and the pursuit of healthy and faithful religion.
• Todd Hunter emphasizes the importance of listening without compromise and using Jesus as an example of engaging with others while staying true to beliefs.
• Churches need to listen, especially to victims, without giving up on fundamental beliefs, to reshape churches towards goodness.
• Markus Watson contrasts Jesus' engagement with marginalized individuals with the church's perceived engagement.
• Todd discusses the need for the church to engage with unique Christian claims while avoiding a privileged and know-it-all attitude.
• He emphasizes the theological meaning of "end" and God's healing the world through his people.
• Todd believes that God's people will rule and reign with him in a renewed heaven and earth.
• He shares insights from Dallas Willard about engaging in conversations with others.
• Christ followers need to have honest conversations with others while remaining grounded in their own beliefs.
• Todd Hunter discusses the negative impact of fear and anxiety and emphasizes the eschatological nature of faith for pastors living in a post-Christendom world.
• It is important to understand the broader intentions of Jesus beyond just dying for salvation.
• Todd Hunter expresses a desire to reintroduce Jesus to people who are disengaged from traditional church practices.
• Churches need to meet people where they are, tailoring church practices to different communities.
• The conversation acknowledges the value of traditional church forms while emphasizing openness to various expressions of faith beyond traditions like house churches.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Todd Hunter:
  • www.toddhunter.org
  • www.c4so.org
• Center for Justice and Peace 
• Books mentioned:
  • What Jesus Intended, by Todd Hunter
  • Jesus and the Victory of God, by N.T. Wright
  • A Church Called Tov, by Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer
• Pray as You God
• Fresh Expressions
• Related episodes:
  • Episode 126: A Crisis of Adult Discipleship, with Brian Wallace

Get Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

In this quick conversation Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore a thought-provoking quote from Alexia Salvatierra, a professor at Centro Latino at Fuller Theological Seminary. The quote, "If you don't listen, you can't see what God is doing," sparks a deep discussion on the importance of listening and discerning God's work in the world. Tod shares insights on the implications of this quote for leadership, the significance of listening to others, and the challenges of opening ourselves up to different perspectives.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Alexia Salvatierra in Episode 101: Gratitude, Grief, and Guilt--the Church After Covid:

"If you don't listen, you can't see what God is doing."


THIS EPISODE"S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE"

• Listening is crucial for discerning and seeing what God is doing.
• Rather than being vision casters, leaders should focus on hearing the voice of God and sensing His direction.
• Listening to others, including neighbors and different perspectives, helps in recognizing God's work, especially in our blind spots.
• It's important to force ourselves to open up to other voices and perspectives to better hear and see what God is doing.
• To better discern God's leading, it's essential to stop and listen, particularly to those who have been ignored.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Jeff Crosby is President and CEO of ECPA, the trade association of Christian pulishers, and the author of The Language of the Soul: Meeting God in the Longings of Our Hearts.

In this episode, I’m speaking with Jeff Crosby about our longings.  We discuss a Portuguese word—saudade—which, according to Jeff, is an untranslatable word that refers to a kind of deep, inner longing that every human feels.

As leaders, it’s so important to recognize our longings.  And it’s even more important to meet God in the midst of our longings.

THIS EPISODES HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Jeff Crosby is President and CEO of ECPA, the trade association of Christian pulishers, and the author of The Language of the Soul: Meeting God in the Longings of Our Hearts.
• Jeff Crosby discusses the concept of saudade as a deep inner longing and its resonance with spiritual longing and leadership.
• The episode delves into how individuals can recognize signals of disintegration in their lives and the need to center themselves, seeking support from spiritual friends, counselors, or spiritual directors.
• Jeff Crosby and Markus Watson discuss the different dimensions of saudade, involving personal relationships, meaningful work, and a sense of belonging, peace, and safety.
• The structure of the book, focusing on internal, external, and eternal longings, is highlighted, emphasizing the universal nature of yearning in leadership and personal development.
• Jeff discusses the value of saudade and the inner journey of affirming it and finding God's presence, especially in times of loss and change.
• In the context of a changing world and ministry, Jeff Crosby address the impact of loss and the way it affects individuals and their leadership roles.
• Jeff Crosby's book, The Language of the Soul, should be read  slowly,  allowing it to have a deep impact on the soul.
• Jeff and Markus discuss the potential negative effects of pushing down desires in leadership.
• Jeff Crosby’s book is meant to tap into readers' own saudade and prompt reflection on their desires, inspired by the notion that spirituality revolves around handling the pain and hope brought by yearning.
• Jeff Crosby and Markus Watson emphasize the crucial role of of an undivided life in leadership.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Jeff Crosby:
  • Evangelical Christian Publishers Association
• Books mentioned:
  • The Language of the Soul, by Jeff Crosby
  • Hinge Moments, by D. Michael Lindsay
• Related Episodes:
  • Episode 96: Crossing Leadership Thresholds, with Jeff Crosby
  • Episode 142: Navigating the 7 Stages of Transition, with D. Michael Lindsay

Get Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss the role of anger in leadership. They emphasize the importance of acknowledging and addressing anger in a healthy way, shifting the focus from retaliation to addressing the systems that need to be changed. They highlight the significance of understanding and navigating the anger of others, especially in the context of leading change in churches and organizations. Through their conversation, they underscore the value of naming anger as a legitimate feeling and taking responsibility for creating healthier systems that promote flourishing and minimize harm.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Chuck Whitley in Episode 81: Anger and Spiritual Leadership:

“We need to shift our anger from responding with retaliation to addressing systems that need to be changed.” 


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Tod Bolsinger emphasizes the discomfort often associated with acknowledging anger in a ministry or leadership context.
• The conversation delves into the relationship between fear, hurt, and the unconscious tendency to retaliate when triggered by anger.
• Reflecting on the civil rights movement, the episode illustrates the power of addressing broken systems in a transformative manner without resorting to retaliation.
• The discussion highlights regional variations in passive-aggressive behavior, emphasizing the importance of owning and addressing the impact of every action within a ministry setting.
• Tod Bolsinger provides practical insights on navigating and addressing the anger of others within a ministry context, emphasizing the value of addressing the deeper emotions behind the anger.
• The episode emphasizes the legitimacy of healthy anger in leadership and the acknowledgment that change within ministries can elicit fear and anger, often expressed as anger.
• Listeners gain valuable insights into understanding and responding to anger within ministry, acknowledging that change and faithful leadership can provoke anger, and providing guidance on managing this during significant transitions.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Roy Inzunza is corporate chaplain at Hoehn Motors in San Diego and works as an adaptive leadership coach with Tod Bolsinger.

In this episode, Roy Inzunza shares about his experience as a corporate chaplain.  He shares not only how he began to see needs in the staff and in the organization that no one else saw—or no one was addressing—but he also shares how he began to lead from the margins.  By changing himself he began to change the system.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Roy Inzunza is corporate chaplain at Hoehn Motors in San Diego and works as an adaptive leadership coach with Tod Bolsinger.
• Inzunza started his own chaplaincy business called SquarePatch, providing spiritual care and well-being to clients.
• Being a corporate chaplain comes with challenges as the workforce is often diverse in terms of beliefs and issues.
• Roy Inzunza has dealt with various issues like divorce, addiction, health problems, and workplace dynamics in his role as a chaplain.
• His pursuit of a Doctor of Ministry at Fuller Theological Seminary has helped him explore how the Gospel impacts personal and professional thriving.
• Inzunza has expanded his focus to include caring for the shared life and health of the organization.
• The positive response to his recent work has led to requests for training managers to make adaptive shifts in managing conflict.
• Low morale and a lack of joy in the workplace are pain points that Roy addresses in his chaplaincy work.
• Roy Inzunza highlights the importance of making adaptive shifts to increase joy in the workplace.
• Navigating resistance from others when making changes is a challenge that Inzunza has faced.
• Roy reflects on his initial defensive response to resistance and acknowledges the ongoing issue that needed addressing.
• Both Inzunza and Watson emphasize that leadership requires personal change as well.
• Inzunza describes the experiments he is conducting to address adaptive challenges, such as sending a weekly email about workplace courage practices.  The positive responses and conversations sparked by the email have surprised Roy.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Roy Inzunza
  • Squarepatch.org 
• Church Leadership Institute
• Adaptive Church Leadership Cohort
• Books mentioned:
  • Life of the Beloved, by Henri Nouwen
• Fuller Theological Seminary
  • Doctor of Ministry (D.Min.) Program

Get Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

In this episode, we’ve gathered a panel of experienced coaches in the world of church ministry to discuss the challenges of adapting to a rapidly changing landscape and the importance of embracing an adaptive approach to ministry leadership.

Joining Markus Watson on the panel are Matt Lake, Jonny Weir, and Heather James. All of them, because of their work as coaches with the Church Leadership Institute’s Adaptive Church Leadership Cohort, bring with them a wealth of knowledge and experience in guiding churches through the challenges that so many of us are facing today.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Heather James, Matt Lake, and Jonny Weir are ministry leaders and coaches with the Church Leadership Institute’s Adaptive Church Leadership Cohort.
• Heather James and Matt Lake discuss adapting to a changing church ministry and following Jesus into the neighborhood.
• Matt Lake and Markus Watson emphasize the need for adaptive leadership and embracing the posture of learning, not being an expert.
• Matt Lake mentions the freedom in not feeling pressured to have all the answers and the importance of the observation, interpretation, intervention, and action process.
• While technical leadership is important for technical challenges, adaptive leadership is critical for adaptive challenges.
• The adaptive leadership approach is suitable for churches of all sizes and styles.
• In adaptive leadership, it is critical to stay the course and guard the adaptive process.
• Jonny Weir introduces the Church Leadership Institute’s Adaptive Church Leadership Cohort and the questions it helps answer.
• The Adaptive Church Leadership Cohort is so valuable both in terms of ongoing learning and experimentation.
• The Adaptive Church Leadership Cohort’s approach focuses on learning, observing, listening, interpreting, and then taking action.
• The mindset shift is from focusing on outcomes to focusing on process and transformation.
• The next Adaptive Church Leadership Cohort begins in February 2023. Sign up soon!

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Church Leadership Institute
• Adaptive Church Leadership Cohort
• Related Episodes:
  • 16: Canoeing the Mountains
  • 83: Disorientation and Spiritual Leadership
  • 108: Leadership as Learning, Part 1: Context and Creativity
  • 109: Leadership as Learning, Part 2: Coaches and Cohorts
  • 177: Exploring New Forms of Church, with Shannon Kiser

Get Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger discuss a quote from Jeff Crosby. The quote, "The absence of conflict is not always possible nor always good," sparks a conversation about the importance of healthy conflict in leadership and personal growth. They share their experiences as an Enneagram 9 and an Enneagram 8, respectively, and offer insights on staying engaged, asking questions, and navigating conflict in a way that fosters understanding and moves organizations forward. They give an example of a church grappling with change and the tension between staying true to their existing community and reaching out to their changing neighborhood. Overall, the episode highlights the value of addressing conflict as an opportunity for growth and progress.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Jeff Crosby in Episode 96: Crossing Leadership Thresholds:

"The absence of conflict is not always possible nor always good."

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Jay Kim is lead pastor at Westgate Church in the Silicon Valley, and author of a new study on Colossians titled, One Jesus, One People.

Syncretism refers to the blending of two belief systems.  In this episode, Jay Kim and Markus Watson discuss syncretism in terms of  its subtle effects on the church today and how to shed those syncretistic tendencies in our faith and ministry.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Jay Kim is lead pastor at Westgate Church in the Silicon Valley, and author of a new study on Colossians titled, One Jesus, One People.
• The book of Colossians was written to address what many scholars refer to as “the Colossian heresy.”
• The Colossian heresy involved syncretism, which refers to a blending of beliefs, ideas, theologies.  The Gospel was being mixed with other ideas and that’s what Paul was addressing.
• Christian nationalism is an example of modern-day syncretism.
• Jay Kim describes the connection between what Paul says in Colossians and Plato’s allegory of The Cave.
• Too often we think our programs are the main thing.  But they are only shadows.
• According to Jay Kim, if we think our programs will change lives, we are pinning all our hopes and dreams on the “shadows” and not the reality.
• Jay Kim discusses the role of Onesimus in Colossians—and marginalized voices in general—in helping churches grow into who they are called to be.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Jay Kim:
  • Website - jaykimthinks.com
• Books and resources mentioned:
  • One Jesus, One People, by Jay Kim
  • Canoeing the Mountains, by Tod Bolsinger

Get Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss a quote from Scot McKnight. The quote challenges the notion that leaders ought to control and asserts, instead, that leaders, particularly pastors, are actually followers of Jesus. Bolsinger emphasizes the importance of biblical leadership, rooted in self-sacrifice, care, and a focus on mission. He highlights the need to move away from dysfunctional patterns of leadership and instead raise up models of leadership that honor Jesus and reflect God's desire for the world. Ultimately, leadership is seen as a function, not a title, with leaders taking personal responsibility and inviting others to join in following Jesus and fulfilling His mission on Earth.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Scot McKnight in Episode 92: Against a Culture of Abuse.

"We are not leaders of others; we are followers of Jesus. 'Join us in following Jesus,' is the pastor's call."

Ep. 92 is a conversation inspired by Scot Mcknight's and Laura Barringer's book, A Church Called Tov.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!