The Indigo Podcast

Do you feel compelled to work? Is your work difficult to stop thinking about? Are you upset if you have to miss a day of work? Do you tend to work beyond the actual requirements of your job? If so, you might be a workaholic–and so are almost half of U.S workers. Our guest today is Malissa Clark, author of Never Not Working: Why the Always-On Culture is Bad for Business–and How to Fix it. Malissa is an associate professor of industrial and organizational psychology at the University of Georgia, where she has been on faculty since 2013, and she joined us for a deep conversation all about workaholism–what it is, why it matters, and what we can do about it. If you care at all about your work and your life, this is simply an episode you can’t miss. 

Links and Other Information

Malissa's book, Never Not Working: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Not-Working-Always-Business/dp/1647825091 

Malissa Clark’s website: https://www.malissaclark.com/ 

Malissa Clark on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/malissa-clark-0387991a/ 

All episodes plus MUCH more: Elevating What Works

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Love them or hate them, meetings are everywhere. But we really do need good meetings for teams and organizations to work. Steven Rogelberg is the world’s top evidence-based expert on meetings. He’s the author of the 2019 hit book The Surprising Science of Meetings and more recently, he wrote and published a new book, Glad We Met: The Art and Science of 1:1 Meetings. It’s a fascinating and useful look at how we can truly use intentional, thoughtful one-on-one meetings to create stronger relationships, better workplaces, and maybe even a better world. Tune in for this wonderful, jam-packed conversation with the one and only Steven Rogelberg. 

Links and Other Information

Glad We Met: The Art and Science of 1:1 Meetings - https://www.amazon.com/Glad-We-Met-Science-Meetings/dp/0197641873

The Surprising Science of Meetings - https://www.amazon.com/Surprising-Science-Meetings-Lead-Performance/dp/0190689218 

Steven Rogelberg’s website - https://www.stevenrogelberg.com/ 

All episodes plus MUCH more - Elevating What Works

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This episode is about loneliness--but it's also about so much more. The bigger issue has to do with building connections with each other and within a society that so often feels fragmented. So we do tackle loneliness in this episode, but building connections is the big theme of what we discuss. It’s a topic that we see as absolutely critical for the flourishing of everyone both as individuals and as a society. Tune in for a thought-provoking and at-times rather passionate discussion of loneliness and building connections for a better life.

As always, please subscribe, share this episode with a friend or on social media, and give us a great rating or review wherever you listen if you think we deserve it. 

Links and Other Information

This Deadly Condition Affects One in Four People (article by Ben about loneliness): https://benbaran.substack.com/p/this-deadly-condition-affects-one

How One Man Convinced 200 Ku Klux Klan Members To Give Up Their Robes: https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes

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Suzanne Lucas is the "Evil HR Lady." After a decade in corporate HR, she embarked on a new mission to enhance the world of work for all. She coaches and trains HR departments, speaks around the world, and is the mastermind behind the Evil HR Lady group on Facebook, which has become a community of more than 31,000 HR professionals. In this episode, we talked about the state of HR, the dangers of the idea and practice of “bringing your whole self to work,” and the value of improv comedy for developing leadership skills. Stay tuned to hear Chris and I try a bit of improv in this thought-provoking and fun episode with Suzanne Lucas.

Links and Other Information

All episodes plus MUCH more: Elevating What Works

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More from Suzanne Lucas:

• Blog/website: https://www.evilhrlady.org/ 

• Evil HR Lady Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/evilhrlady

• Suzanne on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suzannemlucas/ 

What does it really take to be an effective senior leader? Beyond just getting promoted, what is it about people at higher levels that helps them genuinely succeed in those roles? In this episode, we explore:

• What skills people need to lead at different levels

• Paths toward gaining those skills, for both high-potential professionals and people currently in leadership roles

• Implications for people who want to lead at high levels, for those leaders themselves, and for organizations

Links and Other Information

All episodes plus MUCH more: Elevating What Works on Substack

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Day, D. V., Riggio, R. E., Tan, S. J., & Conger, J. A. (2021). Advancing the science of 21st-century leadership development: Theory, research, and practice. The Leadership Quarterly, 32(5), 101557. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S104898432100062X?

Kragt, D., & Day, D. V. (2020). Predicting leadership competency development and promotion among high-potential executives: The role of leader identity. Frontiers in psychology, 11, 1816.  https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.01816/full 

Miscenko, D., Guenter, H., & Day, D. V. (2017). Am I a leader? Examining leader identity development over time. The Leadership Quarterly, 28(5), 605-620. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1048984317300437?

Mumford, T. V., Campion, M. A., & Morgeson, F. P. (2007). The leadership skills strataplex: Leadership skill requirements across organizational levels. The leadership quarterly, 18(2), 154-166. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1048984307000069?

Sam Paustian-Underdahl is the Mary Tilley Bessemer Associate Professor of Business Administration in the Department of Management at Florida State University's College of Business, and we were honored to have her join us for a fantastic conversation about women, work, and why this topic matters. Sam’s research, which we discuss along with other related topics, focuses on gender and diversity in organizations, the work-family interface, and leadership, in the context of work and organizations. We explored the idea of the playing field of the workplace, how gender fits into it, and implications for all of us, including leaders and organizations. 

Links and Other Information

Sam's faculty webpage, LinkedIn profile

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Who are YOU, really? In this episode, Ben and Chris explore how "real" you should be at work and in other social circles, including: 

• The benefits and potential pitfall of authenticity

• How authenticity plays out in groups and organizations

• Implications for all of us, for leaders, and for organizations

Links and Other Information

Lehman, D. W., O’Connor, K., Kovács, B., & Newman, G. E. (2019). Authenticity. Academy of Management Annals, 13(1), 1-42. https://journals.aom.org/doi/abs/10.5465/annals.2017.0047 

Why Brutal Honesty is Often a Brutal Mistake: https://www.elevatingwhatworks.com/p/why-brutal-honesty-is-often-a-brutal

All episodes plus MUCH more: Elevating What Works

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It's common to hear people describe their work organizations as a "family." And that description is often made as a proud statement, as if to imply that an organization should operate or feel like a family. But that's problematic, as we discuss in this episode. Specifically, we explore:

• Why our use of metaphors for organization matters
• How the way in which we talk about things can create or reinforce cultural norms
• Why “family” is a problematic way to think about your work organization
• Implications for people, leaders, and organizations

Links and other information

Örtenblad, A., Putnam, L. L., & Trehan, K. (2016). Beyond Morgan’s eight metaphors: Adding to and developing organization theory. Human Relations, 69(4), 875-889. Click here

Gareth Morgan’s seminal book, Images of Organization

Harvard Business Review article by Joshua Luna, “The Toxic Effects of Branding Your Workplace a ‘Family’” 

Article by David Burkus: “Why a company is not a family — and how companies can bond with their employees instead”

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Shonna Waters and Brodie Riordan recently wrote a book all about coaching called The Coaching Shift, and in it, they explain and describe coaching from an evidence-based perspective. Both Shonna and Brodie are industrial and organizational psychologists, and they teach coaching together at Georgetown University. Shonna is also an executive at BetterUp, where she works to scale human transformation, and Brodie manages her own coaching and consulting practice, Ocular, while executive coaching with The Boda Group. They joined us for a wonderful conversation about The Coaching Shift, in which we talked about what coaching is, how it works, and what it can do for people, leaders, and organizations.

Links and Other Information

Shonna and Brodie’s book, The Coaching Shift

Shonna: LinkedIn, Twitter

Brodie: LinkedIn, Twitter 

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Whether it’s coping with unqualified people being promoted, working hard only to be rewarded with more hard work, supervisors getting away with being rude, or something else–we’ve all been there. Unfairness is common in life and at work, and our perceptions of fairness really matter. In this episode, we discuss: 

• Different types of “justice” or fairness in organizations
• Outcomes of fair and unfair treatment
• Implications for people, leaders, and organizations. 

Links and Other Information

Sherf, E. N., Venkataramani, V., & Gajendran, R. S. (2019). Too busy to be fair? The effect of workload and rewards on managers’ justice rule adherence. Academy of Management Journal, 62(2), 469-502. Link to article and a summary

Cropanzano, R., Bowen, D. E., & Gilliland, S. W. (2007). The management of organizational justice. Academy of Management Perspectives, 21(4), 34-48. Click here 

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The marvel cinematic universe, or MCU, comprises 29 films that together have pulled in $27.432 billion in total revenue. And industrial and organizational psychologists Gordon Schmidt and Sy Islam argue that there’s plenty that we might learn from these films. In fact, they go deep into this topic in their book, Leaders Assemble: Leadership in the MCU. Tune into this great conversation about how we might learn about leadership from popular culture, and more specifically, from superheroes. 

Links and Other Information

Leaders Assemble! Leadership in the MCU (Amazon)

More about Sy: Twitter, LinkedIn, website, ResearchGate

More about Gordon: Twitter, LinkedIn, ResearchGate

Popular culture blog posts: 

• What Should Matthew Be Doing? A Job Analysis for being a Raven
• Hidden Figures, Hidden Talent
• Building Wakanda for Team #SIOP
• Job Analysis of an SNL Host
• Parks and Recreation: A Workplace Sitcom for your IO, OB, or HR class
• May the Fourth of Networking Be With you 

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Few ideas in business are as commonly discussed as leadership. Just think about all of the business books and articles and videos and bits of advice–all dealing with this topic. And sometimes with common ideas we forget what exactly we’re talking about. We’re going back to the basics and talking about what is leadership, actually? In this episode, we discuss:

• What are we talking about when we talk about leadership
• What do we know about leadership and how it works
• How we each make progress in our leader development journeys

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When organizations hire managers they tend to look for experience in a similar role, or someone that might be able to take the team or organization to a higher level or a different strategic place. It’s rare to come across hiring teams that select managers on a “does not drive their team crazy basis.” And there are few management issues that people complain about as much as this one: micromanagement. We discuss:

What is micromanagement?

Why does it occur and what happens when it does?

How to deal with micromanagement from three perspectives: as a senior leader wanting to ensure it’s not happening, as a leader who wants to be a good leader, as a subordinate who is being micromanaged.

Links and Other Information

Related episode: Bad Bosses–The Technical Expert Who Fails at Leadership  

Tavanti, M. (2011). Managing toxic leaders: Dysfunctional patterns in organizational leadership and how to deal with them. Human Resource Management, 2011, 127-136. Click here 

Alvesson, M., & Sveningsson, S. (2003). Good visions, bad micro-management and ugly ambiguity: Contradictions of (non-) leadership in a knowledge-intensive organization. Organization Studies, 24(6), 961-988. click here 

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What would you do if you had everything you wanted? What if you didn't have to work and your life was perfect? What then? In this episode, we unpack our thoughts regarding:

• What does it mean to have “made it” in life and society?
• Why there’s more beyond the struggle of life and why that matters
• How all of us might start or continue that journey and make the world better

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- How learning about leadership through unthoughtful observation doesn’t work

- How we might think about our leadership as a product that we need to iterate based on evidence based practice

- Implications for leaders, individuals and organizations

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- The “research-practice gap” and why it matters

- Measurement of this gap and how it shows up in HR

- Implications for all of us

Links and Other Information

Fisher, P. A., Risavy, S. D., Robie, C., König, C. J., Christiansen, N. D., Tett, R. P., & Simonet, D. V. (2021). Selection myths: A conceptual replication of HR professionals’ beliefs about effective human resource practices in the US and Canada. Journal of Personnel Psychology, 20(2), 51–60. Click here

Rob Briner’s article, “The Basics of Evidence-Based Practice”

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Erik Helzer is an associate professor at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California, and he specializes in three facets of practical wisdom: ethical behavior and moral judgment, self-knowledge, and personal agency and adjustment. He joined us for a wonderful conversation, in which we discussed behavioral ethics and moral psychology, along with implications for all of us.

Links and Other Information

Helzer, E. G., Cohen, T. R., & Kim, Y. (2022). The character lens: A person-centered perspective on moral recognition and ethical decision-making. Journal of Business Ethics, 1-18. Download 

Why the Past 10 Years Have Been Uniquely Stupid: Article in The Atlantic by Jonathan Haidt 

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We recently released an episode about Joe Rogan. Some people HATED it. To be fair, some people liked it too. Since releasing that episode, we’ve thought a great deal about what we said, and we thought it was important enough–for you, our listeners, and because of the importance of the topic itself–to revisit this conversation. In particular, we’d like to explore some of the strongest reactions we got to the episode. These included: 

- Why did you guys even do this episode given your focus on business and relationships and organizations?

- Are you saying Rogan should be canceled?  

- You both must really hate anyone who listens to Joe Rogan! 

We hope you stay tuned–especially if you hated our first episode on Joe Rogan–and let us discuss further. 

Links and Other Information

The Saga of Joe Rogan: podcast episode on The Daily

Happy belated Valentine’s Day! Check out our episode on workplace romance. 

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Why is Joe Rogan so Popular? Article in The Atlantic 

Spotify CEO Addresses Joe Rogan Controversy (CNN)

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