The Ten Thousand Things

Study envy to find messages from our future selves

We unpack the role of envy, not as a toxic emotion to be avoided or ashamed of, but a normal feeling that gives us clues to understanding our unmet desires, unfulfilled potential, and prompting necessary change.

• envy vs jealousy. Jealousy is possessiveness, envy is wanting what others have, or wanting to be them
• becoming less envious of others as we get older
• the emptiness at the heart of existence remains in place no matter who we are or what we have
• house prices, salaries, wealth distribution
• complex, changing feelings, hiding then reveal the path to self-growth
• fitting in vs standing out
• being the object of envy
• being envious of contemporaries, such as friends, people we went to school or work with
• having envy towards our own partners
• bike shorts/yoga pants: acceptable clothing for everyone?
• getting beneath the surface of desire, wanting a greater sense of freedom
• gender and clothing: do women have greater freedom in terms of clothing?
• 'painful but necessary steps'
• Ali's dream of growing more of her own food
• self-envy, a 'better version of ourself' from the past
• Joe's epic case of personal envy towards a contemporary 
• therapy: like cleaning a mirror, with the image becoming clearer over time. 
• daily transformations that count towards personal growth
• the importance of casual conversations for therapeutic value

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - Introduction and Welcome
• (00:28) - Discussing Alain de Botton's Quote on Envy
• (01:41) - Understanding Envy and Jealousy
• (02:05) - Personal Experiences with Envy
• (02:48) - Envy and Lifestyle Aspirations
• (03:24) - Debate on Work and Lifestyle
• (05:30) - Envy in Youth and Adulthood
• (05:55) - Envy and Money
• (08:49) - Envy of partners in relationships
• (11:32) - Envy and Personal Style
• (29:16) - The Illusion of Success
• (29:24) - The Changing Landscape of Attainable Dreams
• (30:04) - The Struggle with Identity and Expectations
• (30:20) - The Reality of Career Success
• (31:20) - The Shift in Perception of Wealth and Success
• (32:32) - The Struggle with Personal Limitations
• (33:34) - The Reality of Life's Unpredictability
• (34:30) - The Desire for Freedom from Wage Slavery
• (35:12) - The Struggle with Self-Blame and Helplessness
• (37:36) - The Journey Towards Self-Reliance and Acceptance
• (42:31) - The Power of Reflection and Self-Understanding

Neurodivergence, New Years Resolutions, and Future Focus

We welcome the New Year by

• evaluating the usefulness of New Years resolutions
• sharing the honest struggles we’ve had
• small triumphs
• Ali shares her journey to quit smoking and the strategies she employs.
• a positive version of sunk cost fallacy, where we are motivated to defend small gains and build on them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost
• making excuses and justifications for not taking responsibility
• tricking yourself into doing things your mind is resisting
• quitting/reducing drinking
• cleaner living, bad skin after xmas blowout
• the power of vanity in keeping motivated
• Ali and Sam pleased about looking younger than some of the other school mums
• how the concept of future thinking and goal setting has influenced our lives
• touching on the psychology concept of ‘delay discounting’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_preferenceas a key to understanding addiction, financial errors and not getting around to acting on our ambitions
• debate the relevance of the neurodivergent label for individuals and the three of us
• the present and future of the show. Our personal and collective mission, methods, and reasons for doing it.

Meta pod discussion for the stans:

• As we reflect on our podcast journey, we contemplate whether to foreground our identity as neurodivergent individuals and how it plays into the show.
• We also share our ambitions for the podcast going forward, including our New Year resolution to de-emphasize diagnoses and just be ourselves.
• Sam digresses into the huge value gained from listening to niche and highly specific podcasts
• Joe advocates having ‘no angle’ and ‘no identity’ 
• the value of anything should be in the doing, in the process. Bhakti Yoga and many other traditions teach we should not do things for reward, nor should we be attached to any particular outcome.
• Podding is more like a zine and having absolute intellectual freedom
  Success is to have critics as well as praise
• we express our gratitude towards our listeners and each other, and acknowledge the affirming impact of their feedback on our personal lives and our collective journey.
• Sam offers some recent pod finds that taught the wisdom of ‘I am becoming’ statements, versus ‘I am’ statements

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - TTTT 37 - New Year New You
• (00:36) - New Year, New Me: Debunking the Myth
• (01:15) - The Reality of New Year's Resolutions
• (02:21) - Alis Struggle Quitting Smoking
• (06:04) - The Power of Incremental Changes
• (09:43) - The Impact of Habits on Appearance
• (11:59) - The Benefits of Sobriety
• (18:29) - Maintaining a Healthy Relationship with Alcohol
• (19:45) - The Impact of Alcohol on Mental Health
• (20:34) - Understanding Delay Discounting
• (20:57) - Delay Discounting in Marketing
• (21:32) - Delay Discounting and Addiction
• (23:28) - The Power of Visualization
• (24:35) - Overcoming Personal Struggles
• (26:35) - Redefining the Podcast's Identity
• (37:32) - The Value of Listener Feedback
• (40:57) - New Year's Resolutions and Personal Growth

Who's Your Guru? (and is Slavoj Žižek any good?)

Sam, Joe and Ali discuss gurus, including the online type:

• our times are thick with public intellectuals, influencers, and self-proclaimed experts 
• Sam's frequent references to Slavoj Žižek, and Joe's conclusion that he doesn't make much sense, and isn't much chop intellectually. 
• Sam on literal guru worship in the Hare Krishnas - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Society_for_Krishna_Consciousness
• should we just speak for ourselves, rather than filter our thoughts or present them in relation to influential figures?
• figures like Jordan Peterson, Douglas Murray 
• the resort to online gurus during times of uncertainty, about how to know and think (the so-called epistemological crisis)
• A few of Joe's past figures get a mention: Stephen Pinker, Michael Shellenberger,
• how problematic it can be when these gurus leave their area of expertise
• many people will detect that guru lane drift, but many others still trust their Guru's every word, which is perhaps the whole point of gurus
• the power of dialogue with other humans in understanding our own internally competing perspectives, and helping us evaluate information and perception
• striving for clarity amidst an overload of information.

Useful sources:

• The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (peer reviewed) - Zizek entry https://iep.utm.edu/zizek/
• Zizek Wikipedia
• Zizek wikiquote
• Some key Zizek ideas from The Conversation

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - Introduction and Hosts
• (00:28) - Topic inro: Online Gurus
• (00:41) - Slavoj Žižek
• (02:52) - Growing up with guru worship in the Hare Krishnas
• (04:22) - The Dangers of Guru Worship
• (05:57) - The Influence of Public Intellectuals
• (11:31) - The Impact of Social Media on Gurus
• (15:33) - The Crisis of Trust in Modern Media
• (28:13) - Capitalism and Media Coverage
• (28:34) - The Search for a Reliable Source
• (29:01) - Disappointment in Trusted Institutions
• (29:53) - The Role of Institutions and Individual Sources
• (32:08) - The Struggle with Information Overload
• (32:48) - The Burden of Individual Choice
• (34:42) - The Quest for Understanding and Trust
• (36:09) - The Fear of Uncertainty and the Search for a Guru
• (38:15) - The Dangers of Single-Source Reliance
• (40:16) - The Role of Dialogue in Understanding
• (44:19) - The Challenge of Finding Clarity in Chaos

What Do We Want To Pass On To Our Children?

Find out what controversial song was top of Ali's music wrap for the year. Oh, and we delve into parenting: 

• specifically, how should we influence our kids
• On the Road, Jack Kerouac; Homage to Catalonia, George Orwell; David Bowie all get a mention
• the influence we want to have, versus what really happens
• personal experiences, the influence of books and other texts versus direct communication
• feeling unsure about who to be as a parent and a person
• what are we actually shooting for with values and is it a simple transfer? No
• the concept of meaningful freedom and how it relates to addiction
• hyper gendered kids stuff, sugar, screens and other baddies
• the inevitable reflections on our own upbringing
• some of our current and past approaches to parenting, and hopes for the future
• spirituality gets another plug - and it hasn't even taken out a sponsorship

• (00:00) - Welcome and intro
• (00:27) - Influence on Children: Personal Experiences
• (01:27) - Power of Now, Books and Reading
• (03:11) - Passing on a love of music
• (04:34) - Values and culture
• (08:18) - What are values anyway. Not a simple thing
• (10:01) - What we try for vs what we get. Being yourself around your baby
• (13:43) - The Struggles of Parenting and Personal Growth
• (22:05) - The Influence of Social Media and Screen Time
• (33:54) - The Importance of Freedom in Parenting
• (34:32) - Avoiding Addiction Pathways in Parenting
• (35:11) - Transition from Control to Moderation
• (36:01) - Influence of Parental Values on Children
• (36:59) - The Importance of Apologizing and Kindness
• (37:36) - Raising a Kind and Sociable Child
• (41:33) - The Role of Curiosity in Parenting
• (43:31) - The Impact of Parenting on Children's Future
• (44:44) - The Power of Consciousness and Spirituality
• (57:57) - The Influence of Books and Reading
• (59:59) - The Role of Practice and Present Moment in Parenting

Possible triggers. A confronting episode but one we are proud of. Sam, Joe, and Ali explore the impacts, recovery and residues of mental breakdowns.

• The recent Robbie Williams documentary has kicked off many discussions about mental health
• Robbie's demeanour on screen reminded Ali of herself. He was had extraordinary energy before his collapse, as did Ali, with full time work, a small child, a backyard farm and making sourdough from scratch
• In the present, Ali can see that something inside Williams is 'still broken' or 'empty' even though he remains functional in most areas of life
• This led Ali to consider her life and self now, and compare it with her perception of self before her breakdown
• We collectively navigate Ali's personal journey through mental health challenges, including a severe breakdown that led her into a state of psychotic mania and hospitalization.
• Joe brings up Donald Winnicott and his concept of the 'good enough parent' which relates to the 'good enough self', which is the best self, because it is the True Self, as opposed to the ideal self, which is a False Self, and is not sustainable (leading to many problems including breakdowns). Winnicott also gave us the idea that 'the catastrophe we fear has already happened'- which also relates to Ali's experience clo
• We delve into the changes in energy levels, personal expectations, ambitions, and the perceived self after such an experience.
• We look for therapeutic and analytic angles to discuss the theme of death and mortality in Ali's breakdown
• Ali's story strongly reminds Sam of Joseph Campbell's idea of the Hero's Journey*. Sam proposes that Ali followed most of the stages of the Journey in her breakdown, but may have remaining analysis to complete on the Road Back to the Ordinary World.
• We touch on diagnostic perspectives, struggles with unmet expectations, and the thirst for normalcy
• Joe advocates for spiritual exploration as an intrinsic part of the journey of healing and understanding, and as the best way to meet that higher calling, to live a full life.

*Campbell's book The Hero With A Thousand Faces is an analysis of myth, through ideas from psycho therapy, . The journey is a model of psychological struggle and change in the self. In various stages the self must deal with a Call to Adventure which disrupts their world, they cross into an unknown world, they face dangers, and approach the innermost cave, with an increasing and impending feeling of life and death, they face an ordeal, a struggle and rebirth, an atonement and resurrection. The Road Back is also full of dangers, before we can re-enter the Ordinary World, but find ourselves changed, and our experience of the world forever altered.

Keywords: Mental Breakdowns, Recoveries, Energy Levels, Psychosis, Psychotherapy, Psycho-analysis, Mania, Winnicott, The Good Enough Parent, Spirituality, Higher Calling

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - Theme and host intro
• (00:48) - Robbie Williams: another Ali Sam crossover
• (01:36) - The Attraction to Robbie Williams
• (02:39) - Mental Breakdowns: do we ever put the pieces back together again?
• (03:31) - Ali's Personal Experience with Mental Breakdown
• (05:08) - The Aftermath of a Mental Breakdown
• (05:32) - The Healing Process
• (08:09) - Ali's breakdown and afterwards
• (11:19) - The Struggle of Recovery
• (12:44) - Reflections on the Healing Journey
• (26:36) - Living in the Future: A Discussion on Expectations
• (26:40) - The Psych Ward Experience: Future Focus vs Present Moment
• (27:08) - Facing Mortality: A Personal Perspective
• (27:22) - The Illusion of Imminent Death and Its Impact
• (27:27) - The Struggle with Physical Health and Self-Perception
• (28:28) - The Power of Therapy: Understanding Psychosis
• (28:57) - The Reality of Perception: A Psychedelic Experience
• (29:49) - The Fear of Failure and the Pressure of Expectations
• (31:50) - The Fear of Disappointing Family and the Pressure of Social Scripts
• (37:55) - The Struggle with Energy Levels and the Desire for a Higher Calling

00:00 Theme and host intro
00:48 Robbie Williams: another Ali Sam crossover
01:36 The Attraction to Robbie Williams
02:39 Mental Breakdowns: do we ever put the pieces back together again?
03:31 Ali's Personal Experience with Mental Breakdown
05:08 The Aftermath of a Mental Breakdown
05:32 The Healing Process
08:09 Ali's breakdown and afterwards
11:19 The Struggle of Recovery
12:44 Reflections on the Healing Journey
26:36 Living in the Future: A Discussion on Expectations
26:40 The Psych Ward Experience: Future Focus vs Present Moment
27:08 Facing Mortality: A Personal Perspective
27:22 The Illusion of Imminent Death and Its Impact
27:27 The Struggle with Physical Health and Self-Perception
28:28 The Power of Therapy: Understanding Psychosis
28:57 The Reality of Perception: A Psychedelic Experience
29:49 The Fear of Failure and the Pressure of Expectations
31:50 The Fear of Disappointing Family and the Pressure of Social Scripts
37:55 The Struggle with Energy Levels and the Desire for a Higher Calling

We explore the experience of identifying as victim, through personal stories and theory, and of course the potential of spirituality and psychotherapy in helping move through, and renounce identities over time.

We discuss the dangers of adhering to a single identity label, and the benefit of taking responsibility for our own actions and healing, while being aware that we are also inescapably interconnected with others.

 Identities such as Victim are necessary and useful, and can arise naturally from a life event such as an accident, an assault, or injustice, but also from ordinary childhood experiences, a personal identity, or a relationship dynamic. So we may come to identify as victim. This is normal, but over time our sense of self shifts greatly and we move through many identifications. to enable us to life more fully.

We've all been a victim, we all suffer, we all deserve comfort and help, and it's also true that we sometimes cling too long to a sense of being The Victim. We are usually right about that victimhood in some way, even with people who fraudulently claim victim status. While fraudulent victims provoke understandable outrage, as we see in the extraordinary case of Belle Gibson, such people are probably suffering in any case, and their fraud itself is an indicator that something is wrong in their lives.

Sam finds a related quote about Lacan's formulation of fantasy, the Other, the alienation of the subject, and restoring the dignity of the subject by letting go of fantasy. Marx and Zizek get a mention.

And we get into how spirituality and therapy both invite a deconstruction of ego and fantasies. The conversation concludes with the benefit of adopting broader, more interdependent perspectives on life.

Image courtesy: Craig https://www.instagram.com/p/CrFzDLgK7Mw/

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - Being the victim
• (00:46) - Identity Politics and Neurodivergence
• (02:14) - The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle's book and a quote
• (02:23) - Eckhart Tolle's Influence and Impact
• (04:46) - Interpreting Eckhart Tolle's Quote
• (05:40) - Victimhood and Identity
• (21:54) - Responsibility and Victimhood
• (27:46) - The Ego and Therapy: A Complex Relationship
• (28:05) - The Role of Victim Mentality in Therapy
• (29:12) - The Struggle of Admitting Victimhood
• (30:19) - The Process of Analyzing and Accepting Trauma
• (31:33) - The Importance of Self-Responsibility in Therapy
• (31:51) - The Impact of Trauma on Identity
• (36:04) - The Role of Fantasy in Therapy
• (45:41) - The Paradox of Individuality and Interdependence
• (47:55) - Concluding Thoughts: The Illusion of the Separate Self

Only posting about shit you have personal experience of? 

• Ali explains why white middle class people should maybe shut up. 
• Team discuss different social media platforms and shouting into the void
• Posting hot photos on Instagram as awareness raising? 
• The power of posting about stuff you have lived experience with. 
• Sam talks about the power of herd acceptance and how minds change more often than people realise. 
• The advantages of podcasts over social media for actually learning things. 
• The team discuss the information space and Australian politics. Joe talks about becoming a centrist because he’s so sick of being in the inner-city leftie bubble. 
• The Voice referendum is discussed. Sam accuses Joe of thinking people power is non-existent. 
• Facebook is waning fast but offered strong predictive data about Boomer voting intentions in said referendum  
• Ali mentions marriage equality as a successful campaign with a social media element. The Middle East rears it’s ugly head.
• Ali and Sam conclude that everyone has personal experience of everything and should post whatever they want, Joe is pissed off.

Enjoyed the ep? Share it with someone who might also enjoy it. https://share.transistor.fm/s/2982b484
Hit us up at instagram.com/thetenthousandthingspodcast

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - Theme and intro
• (00:29) - Topic: Posting outside your personal experience - staying in your lane
• (01:52) - Political Discourse
• (02:06) - Predicting the Voice referendum based on Facebook posts
• (03:14) - Reflecting on Personal Social Media Usage
• (03:40) - Demographics of over posting
• (03:53) - Personal Background and posting - private school graduates
• (05:57) - Social Media for Social Change - who to listen to, making space
• (12:01) - Personal experience resonates more than opinion
• (29:35) - Analyzing Communication Strategies
• (30:17) - Class and Political Perception
• (31:19) - The Impact of Social Media on Politics
• (32:50) - The Role of Personal Involvement in Political Discourse
• (35:12) - The Power of Social Movements
• (37:04) - The Influence of Social Media on Social Movements
• (39:27) - The Complexity of Political Engagement
• (44:30) - The Role of Social Media in Raising Awareness

The team discuss a quote from Christian mystic Emmett Fox on grievances:

• Joe quotes the cliché that “Having a resentment is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to get sick” and links resentments to addiction. Ali talks about how resentments led to disordered eating.
• Joe proposes complete forgiveness for all harms and Sam says “That’s Christianity!” and also Hare Krishna. 
• The team discuss political resentments and justified resentment. 
• The concept of The Secret Place, which is consciousness, is elucidated.
• Ali brings up old people trapped in bitterness and resentment. 
• Sam discusses what memories came up for him when he had kids, and that he “is his parents”. 
• The team get into some deep therapy gear & discuss spiritual solutions to deep seated problems. 
• Joe realises Jesus is his homie. 
• Sam points out that while that might be true Joe is actually the Woman at the Well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan_woman_at_the_well

• (00:00) - Theme
• (00:22) - Host intro
• (00:31) - Discussing Personal Diagnoses and Neurodivergence
• (02:10) - Listener feedback: show blurb / we should discuss our diagnoses more
• (04:13) - The Impact of Resentments on Mental Health
• (24:20) - The Power of Forgiveness and Positive Thinking
• (27:49) - The Role of Therapy in Overcoming Resentments
• (31:49) - Personal Experiences with Resentments and Forgiveness
• (40:41) - The Influence of Parents and Childhood on Adult Relationships
• (50:44) - The Role of Spirituality in Overcoming Resentments
• (59:32) - Conclusion: The Continuous Journey of Self-Improvement

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

If you enjoy the show, others may also. It can be helpful to tell them what you get from it that you don't find elsewhere, and how to listen on their device. Find us at https://www.instagram.com/thetenthousandthingspodcast/

We discuss mental breakdowns: the need we all have occasionally, the experience of it, and the benefits! Joe, Sam and Ali have had at least one menty b each, as many people now call them. An almost loving and affectionate term, which suggests that this process is something we could maybe greet like a friend. However, it can be very frightening, and isolating, and difficult for others.

We talk about the role of work pressures, unsustainable domestic roles, and the intensity of family life. 'Capitalism' gets a lot of the blame for mental breakdowns, from Ali and Sam at least. And we talk about how our ever-present childhood trauma may combine with recent experience and bring on a crisis.

The shame that comes from having a mental breakdown can cause people to deny or conceal their experience, or to never speak of it. People often go to extraordinary lengths to avoid breakdowns. We tend to recommend not doing that, however we are not doctors, so seek your own advice.

The benefits are many, and not just to the individual. A mental breakdown can signal problems that need addressing, by the person suffering directly, and by others around them. A proper breakdown will prompt the right adjustments much more effectively than a polite chat. It forces us to do what we need to do, which is often to rest, and give up all responsibilities completely, for some time, shorter or longer. By really pausing our lives, questioning all aspects of our existence, and what we think is important, we can build a new set of assumptions and priorities and begin again, changed.

We agreed that discussing breakdowns may be helpful to all. When people tell their stories, it highlights the pressures of life, and helps others to acknowledge their own pressures and breakdowns. It's a chance to share what has been learned.

People can gain valuable insights in the experience of our 'self' being deconstructed involuntarily, and through the task of building up the self again. We could think of it as dramatizing a process that occurs quietly, on a small scale, within us all. Every day, the self is put together and let go of again.

Mental breakdowns often come from unsustainable pressures on a person. It could be a combination of many things over time, and/or a few big things coinciding. People may cope with a lot for a long time, and then find they are unable to continue coping. People may begin a breakdown following a shock, a major change of role or identity, or a death. Or it may be something less obvious, and it may take a relatively long time.

The person experiencing breakdown may have been lacking what they needed to deal with a situation, or had habits or beliefs that needed to change. Sometimes people are able to adapt and avoid breakdown, through choice or unconscious adjustment, but a lot of us need to hit a brick wall in order to realise that we must change something in some way, whether it's ourselves, our beliefs, roles, or circumstances.

Meanwhile, people around the sufferer also have the change to recognise that things were unsustainable and to be part of making the right changes.
------------------------------
Image by Craig - Sycamore Gap - 'the Robin Hood tree'

Share: Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed the ep share it from here https://tttt.transistor.fm/episodes/menty-b

Contact:
Say g'day at threads.net/@thetenthousandthingspodcast
or instagram.com/thetenthousandthingspodcast/

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

The team discuss the art of letting go of friends. Outgrowing friends or just growing in different directions? Joe says if you start judging friends it’s the beginning of the end. We get into painful friendship break ups.

Platonic friendships – are men just biding their time? Sam recalls dating the hottest woman on Brunswick St, just to put it on the public record. Joe & Ali discuss their own weird bipolar friendship. Sam sings some Peter Allen.

Deep conversations between men without mind altering substances – are they possible?

Everyone wants to tell Ali and Joe their darkest secrets on dates but never want to see Joe again and want to be with Ali forever.

Sam discusses his major bromance break up.

We discuss money and class coming between people.

Sam talks about making friends his family at boarding school and that influences his adult friendships. 

Who can we really reach out to when we’re depressed?

We talk for twenty minutes after we say we’re wrapping up and it’s all gold!

• (00:00) - Letting go of friends
• (00:21) - Letting go of friends more as you get older
• (00:52) - It's not because 'you've outgrown them' - there's too much ego in that
• (01:42) - Real friends can grow apart and together and can help each other grow
• (02:52) - When I start juding a friend, I know it's done
• (04:17) - Not afraid to let go. It will create space
• (06:58) - Who are your go to people?
• (10:35) - Friends you only 'see' or talk to online
• (11:39) - A/romantic friendships - when Harry met Ali - Friendzone
• (23:08) - Bromances and Broking Up
• (25:36) - You cannot swing by another man's house for a cup of coffee?
• (29:24) - Some friends you can just 'go there' straight to the deep and meaningful
• (31:17) - The mandatory dating content part of every episode
• (34:03) - The problem with empathy
• (35:21) - 'I can't adjust my settings'
• (35:26) - Bipolar friendships / movies
• (37:02) - Drifting and ghosting
• (40:02) - Class, money, and friendships
• (43:18) - Accepting your life, judging other people, creating space
• (44:11) - Being the needy texter friend
• (46:44) - You're not moving on because you're better
• (50:02) - Not reaching out, doesn't mean I don't love you. Not wanting to 'impose'
• (53:16) - Deleting numbers
• (54:56) - Degendering friendship. Platonic/romantic, female/male, not so different

• Sam Ellis - Host
• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host

Two bipolar romance movies
Katie Holmes - Touched with Fire
Jennifer Lawrence - Silver Linings Playbook

If you like the show, tell a friend where to find us -> pod.link/tttt. Compliments, complaints, corrections at Insta/Threads, we're all in the metaverse dammit.

Sam, Joe and Ali reflect on our experiences in therapy. Sometimes the results seem clear – other times they’re hard to see. All agree it’s important to compare your progress to your past self, not some idealised perfect self. 

We discuss people who don’t think they need therapy. Ali mentions people who “prefer to work things out themselves”. 

Sam discusses the frustration of the session ending after 50 minutes – Joe says he wants an 8 hour MDMA therapy session – Sam wants to get on the ketamine.

Parents get a light going over. Sam discusses a breakthrough around his time in Hare Krishna boarding school. Things can’t be fully resolved, but they can be carried more lightly. 

Does Bill Burr think therapy is bullshit, or does he do it? (We think so)

Ali discusses sharing her darkest secrets with Joe and the trust involved in the that. 

We discuss psychiatrists vs psychologists and where bipolar comes from. Joe says he can intellectualise feelings but struggles to actually feel feelings. 

Ali says three years is the sweet spot for how long therapy should take to work. 

Sam reckons more like 10 years for him and talks about being exasperating. 

We conclude with a discussion of the psychoanalytic method and why we always end up back in childhood.

Thank you for listening and finding value here. Tell a friend where to find us. https://www.instagram.com/thetenthousandthingspodcast/

• (00:00) - Theme
• (00:17) - Intro
• (00:23) - How do we know therapy is working?
• (01:13) - Compare yourself to six months ago
• (01:44) - You forget how f***d up you were
• (02:39) - Journal entries help track progress
• (03:05) - Using prayer to overcome thoughts
• (04:18) - "They said I'm fine" said Person needing therapy
• (05:22) - You're here to 'do the reps'
• (05:40) - Is there a 40 year old that doesn't need therapy?
• (07:24) - Subsidised therapy in Australia
• (08:19) - Sometimes it wasn't working
• (08:50) - Write a long email - delete most of it
• (09:41) - Bill Burr and therapy
• (10:32) - End of a session, castration anxiety
• (13:22) - I haven't hit a limit with therapy yet
• (13:34) - I don't waste my time in there
• (14:13) - Pick any childhood memory and start there
• (14:35) - It's actually about NOT blaming your parents
• (15:36) - You're flawed, and your parents too
• (16:32) - The wound was already there
• (16:47) - Boarding school trauma - need to tell the story properly
• (18:24) - It's not about more recent things
• (19:16) - You feel you're doing what you need to be doing
• (19:36) - Not resolve, but hold it more lightly
• (22:48) - I'm curious about why people are like they are
• (24:33) - You don't need a pat on the back
• (25:54) - It's not about your diagnosis
• (27:07) - Therapy helps with nature and nurture
• (28:24) - My awful habit of giving advice
• (28:44) - I'm containing things more
• (29:23) - Getting to 'You're safe now'
• (31:05) - You can be trusted, you are a safe pair of hands
• (31:31) - Being persuaded you aren't a bad person
• (32:13) - Many women will begin with self blame
• (33:17) - Deconstruction and Construction
• (34:22) - The final level boss
• (37:32) - It may take three years
• (38:51) - Resisting therapy, realising you can change
• (41:42) - Neurotic misery to normal unhappiness

We ask if we are willing to compromise to be in a long-term monogamous relationship?

Sam discusses how to, whether we need to and to what extent we need to compromise.

Ali shares how a lot of women have fallen in love with the idea of being single.

We acknowledge all relationships require compromise however can we compromise our values? Can your values be flexible or do we become stuck in our ways the longer we remain single?

We also discuss in distorted times do distorted dynamics come in to play, is finding a sugar daddy/mamma the answer to living under capitalism?

Joe thinks we would be better off dropping some the mental load, but it is that possible for women when the expectation is that women need to manage that?

• (00:00) - Theme
• (00:22) - Introduction
• (00:28) - Are we willing to compromise to be in a monogamous relationship?
• (01:37) - Compromise is unavoidable in life
• (02:38) - Values can't be traded away, but maybe stubborness and neurosis should be
• (03:55) - What about 'seeking arrangement' situations?
• (04:42) - The problem is really capitalism?
• (05:43) - A lot of couples used to have separate places
• (06:54) - I'm getting stuck in my ways
• (07:17) - I wanna be able to watch test cricket for seven hours
• (07:36) - Building a real structure, billionaires is just a distraction
• (08:56) - No time time left over from wage labor, to work on relationship challenges
• (11:30) - None of this is new?
• (11:48) - But the balance of domestic labor hasn't shifted that much
• (13:44) - You don't meet the ones who are domesticated cos they are too busy being marrie
• (15:00) - Whose job is it to read the school emails and deal with that?
• (18:12) - Couples work better when they play to their individual strengths, but don't assume women are better at organising things
• (19:10) - Maybe there is an outdated assumption about living together, kids aside
• (21:37) - Would I be happier if I couldn't be a slob?
• (22:38) - Another win for cat dads
• (24:01) - The ironing piles up
• (24:30) - Respect
• (25:58) - Why is it my job? I'm not actually good at cooking
• (27:40) - I release you from the need to give a fuck about that
• (28:16) - Carefully working through your expectations
• (31:30) - Compromises for fertility reasons
• (33:00) - "look at that c***, he never does the dishes"
• (33:43) - "Where's my compliments?"
• (34:16) - Why not give a compliment regularly?
• (36:01) - What are the benefits of a live in man?
• (38:08) - It just seems hard work to shack up
• (38:56) - From wildly scattered to structured
• (39:36) - Freedom is living by self-imposed rules
• (42:33) - Be protective of your peace
• (43:26) - Thinking about the kids when making partnering choices
• (46:48) - F*** it, I'll just go cat lady
• (47:36) - You're at peace with cat lady, but I don't want to be alone
• (50:03) - Men need this more than women, once we're on the second half of life
• (52:09) - The advantages of a cricket watching partner
• (53:09) - "This is unacceptable to me"

• Sam Ellis - Host
• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host

We appreciate your feedback. If you would like to reach out you can find us on threads and instagram @thetenthousandthings

Toasted sandwhich recipes:
Ali's: Put mayo on the outside, cheese and kimchi in the middle, cook in the pan
Sam's: Butter and oil in the pan*, low-medium heat, heavy base if you have it
Cheese - a mix of whatever, slices of mozarella, swiss, colby, cheer, whatever
Tomato paste, toss on some dried italian herb mix, fresh tomato (mandatory cheese above and below)
*(can butter the outside of the bread and just put it straight on the pan)

This week we listened to a Mamamia podcast where Mia Freedman interviews Caitlin Moran on her latest book "What about men?" and discuss our thoughts.

We acknowledge we are all victims of the patriarchy, but what tools do men have to help dismantle it? Why don't they identify with feminism and why are the gravitating towards extreme figures?

Ali explains why feminism has been helpful in plight of women, however men are not identifying with these strategies. Why can't men post photos of themselves and not be ridiculed?

Joe felt the interview was a little condescending. He asks if young boys have no lived experience of seeing women so openly objectified as they historically were, why are they feeling like somehow they are still responsible for it? We discuss how we can help the young men in our lives navigating these challenges.

Sam explores how the discourse analysis has been one sided and produced reactionary politics to feminism and how the facts of how men are negatively effected by the patriarchy is getting lost in the conversation.

We also discuss what men today can do to portray positive masculine role models for young men.

We appreciate your feedback, if you want to reach out you can find us on instagram and threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

Find the interview here https://pod.link/995159486/episode/6573549cf512e72c5f770439a827702a

Publisher's page for What about men? by Caitlin Moran https://www.penguin.com.au/books/what-about-men-9781529149159

A decent article on patriarchy, men and masculinities - https://counseling.vcu.edu/students/identity-based-resources/men-and-masculinities/

• (00:00) - Theme
• (00:08) - Introduction
• (02:19) - The difference between a girl posting a body shot and a boy doing the same
• (05:57) - Slight condescension
• (07:09) - 'What about my boy? How do I help and talk with my son?'
• (07:59) - Boys today don't have the context of the history of gender and why feminism needed to happen
• (08:50) - Boys and men still have their own stuff
• (09:50) - Both victim and beneficiary, oppressor and opressed
• (11:25) - Moran's analysis of gender is mainly about discourse
• (14:20) - Gender pay gap
• (16:04) - How is feminism going and how are girls really going?
• (16:47) - Moran kept hearing 'what about boys?'
• (17:12) - Moran is responding to the void, that Andrew Tate is profiting from
• (18:07) - Boys being attracted to what is forbidden/getting yelled at for reading Jordan Peterson years ago
• (23:32) - The context of the buzz around Peterson's first book, an upheavel in gender discourse
• (26:19) - It's important that 'what about boys' comes from a woman with a strong record advocating for girls and women
• (27:16) - Who are the good role models for boys?
• (28:21) - Bill Burr a good role model? A nuanced commentator on gender?
• (32:02) - 'Women are perfect/don't criticise women' is itself patriarchal
• (34:31) - What is patriarchy, again?
• (38:11) - Equal oppression? Would all genders benefit from a 3 or 4 day work week?
• (39:49) - Think about economics in our personal life
• (40:47) - Joe coming back around on class analysis
• (44:04) - How do we become role models for young men?
• (51:09) - 'Boys, your feelings don't matter, except when it's a problem for girls'
• (55:42) - So are the blokes okay?

What are feelpinions? - Ali shares her definition and how she views it through a Dialectical Behavioural lens of logic and emotion. Sam elaborates why all extremes are mutually constitutive and why logic needs emotion and emotion needs logic, Joe however, wants more facts.

We ask how do feelpinions affect our day to day? Are they needed to run the country or just good value in the cricket group chat?

We share what sources we use to get our facts and how the perceived value of those facts influence how we feel about them. Ali likes her ritual of subscription news, Joe enjoys paid substack articles from bloggers while Sam prefers primary sources and secondary analysis.

Can we trust our feelings and how do we manage our feelings when the facts feel terrifying? We explore how we manage the balance of fear with facts.

We appreciate your feedback, if you want to reach out you can you can find us on instagram and threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

Episode image by Craig, catch more of his great stuff on the gram

• (00:00) - Theme
• (00:19) - Introduction
• (00:31) - Definition, and fact checking is for other people
• (01:24) - Are opinions a problem?
• (01:59) - The wise mind - dialectical behaviour therapy
• (03:33) - Recognising error and culpability, exalted being / worthless being
• (04:44) - Extremes make each other - cops make hippies and hippies make cops
• (06:10) - They stole the presents from under the Christmas tree
• (08:47) - Speaking with an authoritative tone
• (09:59) - Feelpinions in sport
• (11:13) - The ideal republic governed by detached intellectuals?
• (11:54) - Subscribing to writers of long articles on Substack
• (13:48) - Rational to feel sick about wind turbines?
• (17:14) - SamGPT
• (17:59) - Paying someone to tell you what to think
• (19:11) - Joe used to read the Economist, and pay for it
• (19:30) - If you pay, you value it
• (21:32) - Noah Smith and Matt Yglesias
• (22:02) - Paying to get a better quality of opinion - The Age and Guardian suck now
• (25:13) - Following Ukraine conflict through bloggers, Telegram, and academics
• (27:35) - The incentive is to spread rumour
• (28:05) - The Age is very bad now - in case we didnt already say that
• (29:14) - Crowd funded blog journalists, Matt Yglesias, NoahPininion, Matt Taibbi
• (29:44) - The market beats us all out of shape in the end
• (30:02) - I'm interested once it becomes old news
• (30:44) - Why does Putin wanna kill me with a nuke?
• (31:22) - Putin will sort all the problems out
• (31:50) - MAGA still matters? Yes, and no. Christian Identity and Maga Communism
• (33:10) - So you guys aren't worried about facts being hard to establish?
• (33:22) - Is the Montana survivalist actually crazier than the Christian fascist?
• (33:50) - Planning for a future, what future? Losing a parent young
• (35:06) - Don't worry, we all love facts
• (35:24) - Distrusting your feelings
• (36:41) - Nixon didn't blow up Vietnam, not with nukes anyway
• (37:38) - I just need to talk this stuff through sometimes / don't worry about things you can't change
• (39:10) - Douglas Murray - read the news for five minutes only. Also he seems fash
• (39:59) - ABC News app
• (40:25) - Podcast recommendations
• (42:25) - Centrist and the lure of false rationality
• (43:10) - People don't read the articles we share
• (43:59) - Who would I send this to? No one, that's who
• (44:36) - Joe shoulld have his own feed: breaking down centrist coverage
• (45:24) - Michael Schellenberger
• (46:05) - The end of the world is not the end of the world
• (47:00) - The algorithm treats us to the dialectic, too much of this, and now, too much of the other
• (48:06) - Joe Rogan and Greta Thunberg
• (49:33) - Joe Rogan before he was really big
• (51:10) - Lucky to have wise friends
• (51:41) - Feelings help absorb the facts
• (52:55) - A vague sense that we might muddle through

• Sam Ellis - Host
• Ali Catramados - Host
• Joe Loh - Host

"The meaning of life" Welcome back Joe and welcome to a new format. Here at the ten thousand things we have decided to tackle the ten thousand things that distract us from loving awareness one thing at a time, so we will now be devoting each episode to one topic where we can really delve into the questions we ask. This week we have TTTT listener Oly ask us what is the meaning of life? We explore what means to us personally and what does it mean for us collectively. Sam believes we need to take responsibility of our own meaning and the meaning we ascribe to others, but ultimately it should be about fun. Ali believes we have a purpose but is unsure that purpose has meaning, however we can find meaning in moments. Joe has a more sentimental take and believes those connections can't happen in isolation but with people. We hope you enjoy the new format and appreciate any feedback, you can find us on instagram and threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

• (00:00) - Theme

Something a little different from The Ten Thousand Things, Joe is taking a well deserved break in beautiful Vietnam so Sam and Ali take the opportunity to discuss all things Autism/ADHD through their lived experiences.
1 - How has neurodiversity contributed to our biggest successes and failures? Sam and Ali share how their neurodiversity impacts their day to day lives, are we doing the right things at the right time? We also share how we've learnt to work with our differences rather than against it.
2 - Who runs the world? Women, young women specifically. We discuss how these young trailblazers and taste makers define the cultural landscape and what we can learn from them to fit in.
3 - Nigella, the domestic goddess. Sam and Ali's special interests cross over and we deep dive into all things Nigella and how we use food to connect with the "normies".

Creators & Guests

• Ali Catramados - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - Theme
• (00:19) - Introduction

Self actualisation / non monogamy / Communism
1 - Quotation corner "Ageing is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always thought you should be" David Bowie Ali explains why this quote resonated with her. Sam discusses why finding your medium for expression is so important and Joe shares how he's found contentment through podcasting. We discuss trying to find your cultural capital and is self actualisation just faking it until you make it?
2 - Non monogamy. Sam explains the patriarchal dynamics of chimpanzees and the matricentric dynamics of bonobos and how we are not so different from our chimpanzee and counterparts.
Joe delves into how jealousy and insecurity make polyamory difficult and Ali shares her thoughts on why she doesn't think men are very good at non monogamy. We ask are all the "narmies" polyamorous and is that better?

3 - Listener mail Eben has written in to ask Sam if he is in fact a card carrying communist and what role, if any, does communism have in 2023? We share our beliefs and what we would like to put in to practice.

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Ali Catramados - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

• (00:00) - Theme
• (00:19) - Topic summary
• (00:48) - Quotation Corner - Bowie on becoming the person you should have been
• (26:32) - Announcement - show length poll results
• (27:18) - Non monogamy
• (59:06) - Listener mail - Communism, human nature

Our parent's values / Crying / Jaded dating profiles

1 - How did our parents values shape our own?

Ali shares how she's not only grown into her parents' values. Sam explores the dichotomy of how his parents created a culture of questioning in a Hare Krishna environment and Joe shares how his parents politics influenced their values. We also ask whether boomers will ever be able to see how good they had it.

2 - Is crying for losers?

Ali shares how her views on crying have changed and how she's come to embrace it. Sam details some anecdotes of how women don't like crying and how that impacts men feeling comfortable expressing emotions. Joe explains why he would like to be able to tap into the cathartic experience of crying. We also discuss how our own attitudes towards crying have shaped our responses to seeing other people cry. 

The Relationship of Gender Roles and Beliefs to Crying in an International Sample

3 - Jaded dating profiles

We delve into jaded dating profiles, should we be using the space to express our deal breakers, or if you get to that point, should you just take a break?

------ (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞

If you would like to learn a bit more about the podcast or us feel free to follow us on Instagram and Threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

Joe @joefanebustloh, Sam @toomanypictureswillneverbeseen and Ali @ali_from_reso

Image courtesy of Craig Wishart

• (00:00) - Preview
• (00:50) - Theme
• (01:17) - Topic summary
• (01:34) - What values did we get from our families?
• (43:45) - Crying - the good, the bad, the ugly
• (01:02:22) - Jaded dating app profiles
• (01:25:52) - Encourage our nonsense: is it the length, or what you do with it?
• (01:27:39) - Talk to us direct on instagram, or email if you're that way
• (01:28:02) - Arguing over the show insta
• (01:28:50) - Why follow the show insta? For Ali and Joe's music picks of course
• (01:29:42) - Ragging on Ali's cat photos - white woman's instagram

Leaning in, to content, confidence and courage.

Do we read books anymore? / How do you rate yourself? / Is spirituality just watered down religion?

1 - Are you a book dragon or a book worm? We ask how in an ever increasing time poor society is there time to read and does it matter what medium and content you're reading?

Sam shares why he believes physical books are not necessary and that reading and learning are more accessible than ever before. Joe is worried the kids are not reading anymore and longs to be able to curl up at night with a good book. Ali shares why she loves to give away her books. 

2 - If we can't all be 7s can we objectively rate ourselves? We break down why the system of rating is complex and the value we place different attributes. Why do men consistently rate themselves higher and women lower?

Ali believes comparison is the thief of joy and we should just try to find the people who think we are 10s. Sam shares how as we get older, through hard work you can improve your rating and Joe discusses the different values men and women places on looks vs other attributes. We all agree we are ageing like fine wines.

3 - Listener mail from Hugh McGinlay - we give Hugh a second bite of the apple and ask if modern day spirituality is just watered down religion and discuss the courage to pursue your beliefs.

Joe explains how his experience of God has been profound in his life. Ali shares and why she places her faith in science. Sam is still waiting for a sign. We explore if we don't need organised religion anymore can we connect with the divine through psychosis, drugs and sex?

Art by Craig Wishart

And a little DVD extra - a chat about Ali joining the show

Creators & Guests

• Joe Loh - Host
• Ali Catramados - Host
• Sam Ellis - Host

Joe @joefanebustloh, Sam @toomanypictureswillneverbeseen and Ali @ali_from_reso

Image courtesy of Craig Wishart

How the language of therapy took over dating / The little things that help / Death
 
 1 - Are we able to diagnose our dates? Should we?
 
 Ali discusses if therapists are having proxy relationships through us or is it better to just focus on clear communication instead? Joe finds "red flags" limiting and wants a more nuanced conversation. Sam shares how the mystery of long term relationships remains. We also discuss if datings apps are ruining monogamy or do we all just want to stay in the lavender haze?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/11/style/therapy-speak-dating.html

“I don’t know if I’ve learned anything yet! I did learn how to have a happy home, but I consider myself fortunate in that regard because I could’ve rolled right by it. Everybody has a superficial side and a deep side, but this culture doesn’t place much value on depth — we don’t have shamans or soothsayers, and depth isn’t encouraged or understood. Surrounded by this shallow, glossy society we develop a shallow side, too, and we become attracted to fluff. That’s reflected in the fact that this culture sets up an addiction to romance based on insecurity — the uncertainty of whether or not you’re truly united with the object of your obsession is the rush people get hooked on. I’ve seen this pattern so much in myself and my friends and some people never get off that line.

But along with developing my superficial side, I always nurtured a deeper longing, so even when I was falling into the trap of that other kind of love, I was hip to what I was doing. I recently read an article in Esquire magazine called ‘The End of Sex,’ that said something that struck me as very true. It said: “If you want endless repetition, see a lot of different people. If you want infinite variety, stay with one.” What happens when you date is you run all your best moves and tell all your best stories — and in a way, that routine is a method for falling in love with yourself over and over.

You can’t do that with a longtime mate because he knows all that old material. With a long relationship, things die then are rekindled, and that shared process of rebirth deepens the love. It’s hard work, though, and a lot of people run at the first sign of trouble. You’re with this person, and suddenly you look like an asshole to them or they look like an asshole to you — it’s unpleasant, but if you can get through it you get closer and you learn a way of loving that’s different from the neurotic love enshrined in movies. It’s warmer and has more padding to it.” - Joni Mitchell on long term commitment
 
 2 - What little things do we do that help us?
 
 Sam finds staying connected to friends, family and yourself most beneficial. Joe has found self care rituals to be very helpful. Ali shares why blondes have the most fun and why we should all "take a thousand naked pictures of yourself"
 
 3 - Quotation corner "If the very worst comes to pass we'll only be dead, a very common and ultimately bearable occurrence"
 
 Joe realises he needs to uproot his fear of death in order to enjoy life. Ali shares why her view on death has changed. Sam has learnt that you fear death the most when you're wasting your time, so use your time wisely.

Cover Image: Be Here Now - Ram Dass

If you would like to learn a bit more about the podcast or us feel free to follow us on Instagram and Threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

Joe @joefanebustloh, Sam @toomanypictureswillneverbeseen and Ali @ali_from_reso

• (00:00) - Be Here Now
• (01:00) - The language of therapy, in dating
• (27:20) - The little things that can help our mental health
• (39:32) - Death - getting our heads around it