gitlab

David DeSanto is the chief product officer of GitLab, which is the largest remote-only company in the world. They share many of their team meetings on YouTube, and they’ve grown from being an open-source code management product competing with GitHub to a multi-product platform that covers security, compliance, continuous integration, project management, and deployment tools, many of which are infused with AI magic. In our conversation, we discuss:

• How GitLab operationalizes transparency

• The philosophy behind recording and sharing team meetings on YouTube

• Their extensive public employee handbook

• GitLab’s core value of having “short toes”

• Challenges and advice for doing remote work well

• Strategies for ensuring effective communication in a remote work environment

• GitLab’s breadth-over-depth strategy

• The company’s unique approach to AI

• The value of using humor in high-stakes conversations

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• Orb—The flexible billing engine for modern pricing

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-gitlab-way

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Where to find David DeSanto:

• X: https://twitter.com/david_desanto

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ddesanto/

• Threads: https://www.threads.net/@david.the.beard

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) David’s background

(04:20) Maintaining an epic beard

(05:29) Why GitLab publicly shares team meetings

(09:49) The GitLab Handbook

(11:30) GitLab’s issue tracker

(14:29) How to successfully build a culture of transparency

(18:11) Benefits of operating with transparency

(19:55) The value of building in public

(21:53) How GitLab implements their core value of kindness

(25:16) What it means to have “short toes”

(27:41) Other core values

(32:16) Common reasons for not fitting in at GitLab

(34:42) Advice for remote teams

(42:04) Advice for getting into product

(43:52) Advice for PMs who are struggling in a remote world

(48:25) Specific tools that help with remote work

(53:13) Time zones and remote work

(57:18) Breadth-over-depth strategy

(01:04:14) AI at GitLab

(01:13:11) GitLab’s products and solutions

(01:14:54) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• GitLab: https://about.gitlab.com/

• UX Showcase—David DeSanto introduction to UX team and AMA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEdsmnVKNj4

• The GitLab Handbook: https://handbook.gitlab.com/

• Sid Sijbrandij on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijbrandij/

• Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/

• GitLab issues: https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/issues/

• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

• GitLab values: https://handbook.gitlab.com/handbook/values

• GitLab organizational structure: https://handbook.gitlab.com/handbook/company/structure

• GitLab direction: https://about.gitlab.com/direction/

• Dogfooding: A simple practice to help you build better products: https://medium.com/agileinsider/dogfooding-a-simple-practice-to-help-you-build-better-products-b5954af4d5f7

• The ultimate guide to adding a PLG motion | Hila Qu (Reforge, GitLab): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-adding-a-plg

• Zigging vs. zagging: How HubSpot built a $30B company | Dharmesh Shah (co-founder/CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-30-years-of-building

• HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/

• Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986

• Geoffrey Moore on finding your beachhead, crossing the chasm, and dominating a market: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/geoffrey-moore-on-finding-your-beachhead-crossing-the-chasm-and-dominating-a-market/

• Open-core model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-core_model

• GitLab Duo: https://about.gitlab.com/gitlab-duo/

• GitLab Docs: https://docs.gitlab.com/

• Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/

• GitLab Acquires UnReview to Expand Its DevOps Platform with Machine Learning Capabilities: https://about.gitlab.com/press/releases/2021-06-02-gitlab-acquires-unreview-machine-learning-capabilities/

• Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less: https://www.amazon.com/Essentialism-Disciplined-Pursuit-Greg-McKeown/dp/0804137382

• The Mission Critical Core/Context Model for Product Managers: https://secretpmhandbook.com/the-mission-critical-corecontext-model-for-product-managers/

• The Devil’s Hour on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/the-devils-hour/umc.cmc.3zw4tyzd4lvor5mwhujms63x3

• Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81458416

• Taylor Swift’s The Eras Tour on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/TAYLOR-SWIFT-ERAS-EXTENDED-VERSION/dp/B0CP99SN2B

• The STAR method: https://capd.mit.edu/resources/the-star-method-for-behavioral-interviews/

• Artifact News: https://artifact.news/

• Superhuman: https://superhuman.com/

• Arc browser: https://arc.net/

• An inside look at how The Browser Company builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/competing-with-giants-an-inside-look

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Amplitude—Build better products | Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life | Ahrefs—Improve your website’s SEO for free

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Hila Qu is an Executive in Residence at Reforge as well as a renowned growth advisor, angel investor, and published author (her book about growth was named one of the top 10 business books of 2018 in China). Previously, she served as the Director of Growth at GitLab, where she implemented and scaled their PLG motion, and VP of Growth at Acorns, scaling them from 1 million to 5 million users. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• The importance of having both a product-led and a sales-led motion for companies of all sizes

• A step-by-step process for implementing PLG

• Common pitfalls of layering on PLG

• How to audit your existing funnel

• Conversion, activation, and retention tactics

• Structuring your growth organization from day one, and as it scales

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-adding-a-plg-motion-hila-qu-reforge-gitlab/#transcript

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Where to find Hila Qu:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/HilaQu

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hilaqu/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Hila’s background

(03:26) The outcome of writing guest posts for Lenny’s Newsletter

(05:12) Why companies should have PLG and sales

(07:58) What PLG is and why it’s so popular

(09:41) Zoom, an example of a PLG company

(11:24) Common pitfalls in adding a PLG motion

(16:06) The spectrum of when PLG makes sense

(20:04) What you need to be successful in a product-led growth strategy

(24:52) The first step to adding a PLG motion

(30:11) What GitLab does and how the sales funnel and PLG funnel work there

(34:07) Mapping out the funnel

(35:29) Finding leverage and other next steps

(38:24) What an aha moment is and conducting an audit

(47:30) Activation and conversion 

(52:17) Why you should start with activation, and who is doing it well

(55:24) Retention, the messy part of the funnel

(1:00:34) How Hila made an impact on retention at Acorns

(1:03:03) The two buckets of data 

(1:04:56) Tools for implementing a PLG motion

(1:08:47) The importance of data 

(1:10:20) Tips to get started, and why you need to have good data first

(1:12:10) How to do a data audit

(1:15:04) Building a PLG team

(1:22:40) The core growth squad

(1:27:51) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Hila’s guest post on Lenny’s Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/five-steps-to-starting-your-plg-motion

• Ravi Mehta on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/building-your-product-strategy-stack-ravi-mehta-tinder-facebook-tripadvisor-outpace/

• Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/

• GitLab: https://about.gitlab.com/

• Lauryn Isford on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/mastering-onboarding-lauryn-isford-head-of-growth-at-airtable/

• Acorns: https://signup.acorns.com/

• PostHog: https://posthog.com/

• Mixpanel: https://mixpanel.com/

• Pendo: https://go.pendo.io/

• Optimizely: https://www.optimizely.com/

• Eppo: https://www.geteppo.com/

• HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/

• Clearbit: https://clearbit.com/

• ZoomInfo: https://www.zoominfo.com/

• Endgame: https://www.endgame.io/

• Pocus: https://www.pocus.com/

• Pace: https://www.paceapp.com/

• Toplyne: https://www.toplyne.io/

• Crystal Widjaja on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-scrappily-hire-for-measure-and-unlock-growth-crystal-widjaja-gojek-and-kumu/

• Redshift: https://aws.amazon.com/redshift/

• The Almanack of Naval Ravikant: A Guide to Wealth and Happiness: https://www.amazon.com/Almanack-Naval-Ravikant-Wealth-Happiness-ebook/dp/B08FF8MTM6

• How Women Rise: https://www.amazon.com/How-Women-Rise-Habits-Holding/dp/1847942253/

• 硅谷增长黑客实战笔记 (Hila’s best-selling book on growth): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BZC8L78?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_ND87BRFMB0CMWBEVB747

• The Wandering Earth II: https://wellgousa.com/films/wandering-earth-ii

• The Three-Body Problem: https://www.amazon.com/Three-Body-Problem-Cixin-Liu/dp/0765382032

• Lululemon yoga pants: https://shop.lululemon.com/c/women-pants/yoga/

• ChatGPT: https://chat.openai.com/chat

• Someday: https://www.amazon.com/Someday-Alison-McGhee/dp/1416928111

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

The predecessor to the office was Florence’s Uffizi Gallery – an admin building to the Medici mercantile empire. That was in… 1560. In the centuries to come, work was revolutionized, with perhaps the most well-known inflection of Ford Motors adopting the 40-hour work week in 1926. The cubicle? We have Robert Propst to thank for that, entering the picture in 1968. 

It wasn’t until the 80s when the Internet appeared on the scene and wifi released in 1997, forever changing the way people live and work. Since then, companies have continued to adopt many of the practices from the 20th century, despite the possibilities being fundamentally different.

COVID sent a shock into that system, forcing many people to adopt a distributed model and despite much debate about what the future holds, this episode will highlight the many ways that companies are continuing to adapt.

Will companies shift toward more asynchronous work? How will a distributed model shift the way we hire? How will companies attract top talent, and is remote the only benefit that matters? What workers and companies will come out on top of this sea change?

And of course… is the office dead? We’ll address these questions, and much more!

Topics covered:

• 00:00 - History of remote work
• 3:27 - Is the office dead?
• 7:05 - Async vs sync
• 16:18 - Building culture remotely
• 27:15 - Attracting top talent
• 31:16 - The evolution of benefits
• 36:04 - Remote work vs work
• 39:29 - Location-based pay
• 46:36 - Open salaries
• 51:23 - Vetting top talent
• 55:32 - The need to adapt
• 58:39 - Rewriting the rules
• 1:03:09 - Infrastructure gaps

Resources: 

GitLab’s Remote Handbook: https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/

Deel’s Salary Insights Tool: https://www.deel.com/salary-insights

Deel’s State of Global Hiring report: https://www.deel.com/state-of-global-hiring-2022

Deel:

• Deel’s website: https://www.deel.com/
• Deel on Twitter: https://twitter.com/deel
• Alex on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Bouazizalex

SafetyWing

• SafetyWing’s website: https://safetywing.com/
• SafetyWing on Twitter: https://twitter.com/safetywing
• Sondre on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SRasch

GitLab: 

• GitLab’s website: https://about.gitlab.com/
• GitLab on Twitter: https://twitter.com/gitlab
• Darren on Twitter: https://twitter.com/darrenmurph

Stay Updated: 

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/a16z

Find us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z

Subscribe on your favorite podcast app: https://a16z.simplecast.com/

Follow our host: https://twitter.com/stephsmithio

Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.