hangboard

The final episode from Rocklands! Ethan Pringle joins me for a fireside chat on my last day in South Africa. We share a wrap-up of the trip, and tackle Patron questions about Ethan’s back injury and rehab, his favorite climbing areas in California, why I still do “No Hangs”, my send of Octopussy, projecting tips, how I use the Tindeq, Ethan’s most epic bat hangs, mental health struggles and setbacks, challenging your perceived limits, why Ethan thinks I should spend more time training on commercial gym sets, my thoughts about Rocklands overall, and much more!

Check out Rocky Talkie!

RockyTalkie.com/Nugget

Use this link to get 10% off your first order of backcountry radios!

Check out Crimpd!

crimpd.com

Or download the Crimpd app!

Check out AG1!

drinkAG1.com/NUGGET

Use this link to get a free year's supply of vitamin D + 5 travel packs!

Check out Wonderful Pistachios!

WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more!

Check out Green Chef!

greenchef.com/60nugget

Use code "60NUGGET" at checkout for 60% off plus free shipping!

We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:

• Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Renzollama, Zach Emery, and Brandt Mickolas

Become a Patron:

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing

Show Notes:  

thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/qa-7

Nuggets:

0:03:51 – Rocklands Recap:

0:03:51 – My recap of being sick, and how fast time flies on a trip

0:11:55 – Comparing my trips to Magic Wood and Rocklands, and my main takeaway

0:13:07 – Ethan’s trip recap, and remaining goals

0:18:22 – Recap of my journey on Black Shadow

0:22:32 – Some of the other hard boulders I tried

0:24:06 – The line between having a “bad” vs “good” trip

0:25:29 – Expectations vs. reality, and resetting your reference points to find gratitude

0:28:02 – Patron Questions:

0:28:02 – Shawn’s Question: Ethan’s back injury/rehab, his plans to lift weights, and the rigors of bouldering in Rocklands

0:34:04 – Shawn’s Question: No Hangs, finding your max load for training, and my current approach to finger strength

0:38:40 – Rajiv’s Question: Top routes that have inspired Ethan, Connor Herson’s repeat of Black Beard’s Tears, and Ethan’s FA in Greenland

0:41:47 – Rajiv’s Question: China Beach in Rumney

0:43:05 – Rajiv’s Question: Chris Linder’s route Window of Opportunity

0:47:59 – Travis’ Question: My send of Octopussy, the process, and projecting tips

0:56:40 – Colin’s Question: Where Ethan developed his love for climbing, being a gym rat at heart, and his early climbing in CA

1:00:10 – Colin’s Question: Go-to climbing areas near San Francisco, Ethan’s thoughts on Jailhouse, and areas in northern CA

1:03:42 – Colin’s Question: Bouldering exploration in the Eastern Sierras, and unfinished business at Shuteye Ridge

1:09:58 – Colin’s Question: Ethan’s thoughts on the bouldering near LA

1:13:11 – Cody’s Question: Tindeq protocols, edge sizes, and some notes about my finger training on the trip

1:19:40 – Patreon plug, and info about Q&As

1:21:26 – Daniel’s Question: Ethan’s thoughts on bat hangs

1:28:02 – Alan’s Question: Which climber’s superpowers we wish we had

1:31:44 – Jacob’s Question: Ethan’s thoughts on mental health struggles, and how that plays into his climbing

1:35:28 – Why loving yourself won’t make you lose your edge

1:39:02 – Wren’s Question: My thoughts on sport climbing in the future, and meeting climbing partners on the road

1:44:20 – Jacob’s Question: Favorite sport climbing destinations in the US

1:46:25 – Unpacking the word “favorite”

1:47:15 – Lars’ Question: Dealing with setbacks and mental struggles

1:49:33 – The beauty of Rocklands

1:51:07 – Connor’s Question: Most memorable boulders, and life list boulders

1:57:03 – Cooper’s Question: Favorite home crags near the Bay that Ethan never gets tired of, and remaining highballs in Bishop

1:59:13 – Luke’s Question: Challenging your perceived limits

2:09:08 – More Thoughts About Rocklands:

2:09:08 – Why Ethan thinks I should spend more time on commercial gym sets

2:10:40 – My thoughts on the climbing in Rocklands, and why I was hesitant to talk about it

2:19:28 – Sweet spot grades in different areas, and wanting to be good enough to enjoy weird or unpleasant climbs

2:22:59 – We need that 18-year-old Moonboard energy

2:24:32 – Wanting to come back, and wrap up

It’s another Northeast takeover in Rocklands! Charlie Schreiber returns to the podcast and is joined by Adam Shahar, and brothers Noah and Benn Wheeler. Ethan Pringle joins us and keeps the fire stoked for this unhinged six-person podcast. The lads gave us the tick list from their first ten days in Rocklands, and we geeked out about board training, favorite FAs, and ultimate dream boulders and routes. Tune in for a dose of fun and inspiration with these young crushers!

Check out The Nugget on YouTube:

youtube.com/@thenuggetclimbing

The Nugget is brought to you by BetterHelp!

betterhelp.com/NUGGET

Use this link for 10% off your first month!

Check out Wonderful Pistachios!

WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more!

Check out PhysiVantage!

physivantage.com (link includes 15% off coupon)

Use code "NUGGET15" at checkout for 15% off your next order!

Check out Rumpl!

rumpl.com/nugget

Use code "NUGGET" at checkout for 10% off your first order!

We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:

• Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Renzollama, Zach Emery, and Brandt Mickolas

Support on Patreon:  

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing 

Show Notes:  

thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/charlie-adam-noah-benn

Nuggets:

0:04:26 – Izzo’s legendary ascent of Eternia in Upper Chaos, and debating whether V12 or 1200 in chess is harder

0:09:15 – Youth worlds and these boys trips outdoors

0:14:47 – Charlie’s tick list (first 10 days in Rocklands)

0:19:06 – Adam’s tick list (first 10 days in Rocklands)

0:26:21 – The boys' skin

0:29:22 – Noah’s tick list (first 10 days in Rocklands)

0:34:01 – Ben’s tick list (first 10 days in Rocklands)

0:37:20 – Charlie’s coach role on the trip

0:38:21 – Remaining Rocklands goals, and goals back home

0:40:46 – Noah’s first weekend of outdoor bouldering, and Benn’s worn-out Nikes

0:42:56 – Getting hooked

0:51:47 – Home crags in the Northeast

0:55:16 – V17 monsters, and futuristic projects

0:57:11 – College plans, and projects in the South Platte

0:58:41 – Brother dynamics

1:00:45 – Sponsorships in climbing vs other sports

1:02:38 – Is there V17 potential in the Northeast?

1:04:06 – Plans to try established V16s

1:09:23 – Boulders the boys struggled with, and Charlie’s big win on Mooiste Meisei

1:16:37 – Favorite boulders in Rocklands, Troy’s send of Black Shadow, and plans to return for Livin’ Large and The Finnish Line

1:21:09 – How the Wheeler boys are different, and Benn’s World Cup aspirations

1:24:24 – Noah’s finger strength

1:26:16 – Board gods

1:34:33 – Board grades vs. Rocklands grades

1:37:38 – Noah’s experience of gaining finger strength and risking injury on the Moonboard

1:38:51 – Using the hangboard for rehab and testing

1:40:17 – Nationals, and comp specialists

1:42:04 – Is board climbing the key to climbing hard on rock?

1:42:43 – Adam’s weaknesses

1:43:26 – Noah’s weaknesses

1:46:52 – Winning with your strengths and not losing because of your weaknesses

1:49:37 – Benn’s weaknesses

1:52:37 – Adam’s proudest FAs

1:54:14 – Noah’s proudest FAs

1:56:03 – Another proud FA from Adam

1:57:34 – Benn’s proudest FAs

1:59:23 – Charlie’s proudest FAs

2:01:36 – Ethan’s FA of Wet Dream when he was 17

2:06:29 – Ethan’s proudest highball FA, and other highballs in Bishop

2:08:13 – Ethan’s big wall FA in Greenland in 2012

2:09:33 – My FA of Pale Horse

2:10:49 – Ultimate dream boulders (and routes)

2:18:05 – Sport climbing aspirations

2:19:24 – Three more goals each

2:24:07 – Airstar

2:26:05 – Ethan and I share our three goals for our remaining time in Rocklands

2:32:16 – These boys are the future

Eric Hörst is back on the podcast! We talked about his upcoming road trip,  fitting in training around work, sending Kaleidoscope 5.13c at age 59, motivation as the ultimate wildcard, autoregulation and tracking how you feel, what to do when you have a bad training day, and the top 7 most common training mistakes climbers make. 

Listen to Eric’s original two-part episode:

EP 71: Eric Hörst (Part 1)

EP 72: Eric Hörst (Part 2)

Check out The Nugget on YouTube:

youtube.com/@thenuggetclimbing

The Nugget is brought to you by BetterHelp!

betterhelp.com/NUGGET

Use this link for 10% off your first month!

Check out PhysiVantage!

physivantage.com (link includes 15% off coupon)

Use code "NUGGET15" at checkout for 15% off your next order!

Check out Wonderful Pistachios!

WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more!

Check out Rumpl!

rumpl.com/nugget

Use code "NUGGET" at checkout for 10% off your first order!

We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:

• Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Renzollama, Zach Emery, and Brandt Mickolas

Support on Patreon:  

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing 

Show Notes:  

thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/eric-horst-returns

Nuggets:

0:03:21 – A wet Spring, and broken holds

0:06:43 – Preparing for a long road trip, working on the road, and current work projects

0:08:21 – Self-coaching, and figuring out what works for you

0:09:19 – Fitting in training around work, cramming before a trip, and maintaining vs. growing a business

0:14:02 – Sending Kaleidoscope 5.13c (8a+) at age 59, and how climbing standards are changing

0:18:33 – The normalization of hard climbing, burnout in kids, and motivation as the ultimate wild card

0:23:57 – Why Eric wanted to cover training mistakes

0:32:04 – Training Mistake #1: Going to the gym and not having an intelligent plan of action

0:37:21 – Autoregulation, doing the same warmup every session to check in, and tracking how you felt

0:42:04 – When to pivot vs. when to stick to the plan

0:45:47 – Training Mistake #2: Every training session is a competition with yourself

0:50:24 – Bad days happen

0:54:26 – Training Mistake #3: Cramming in your training before a weekend or trip

0:57:14 – Training Mistake #4: Engaging in inappropriate training while injured

1:10:42 – Nutrition for injury prevention

1:14:01 – Training Mistake #5: Following someone else’s training plan

1:25:36 – Training Mistake #6: Training your strengths but ignoring your weaknesses

1:31:06 – A physical and a mental weakness that Eric is working on in his own climbing

1:36:10 – Training Mistake #7: Doing everything right at the gym but getting sleep and nutrition wrong

1:43:04 – The wisdom of the current generation of young climbers, stress, and the iPhone trap

1:51:02 – Wrap up

This full episode is available for Patrons right now! Tyler Nelson is back on the podcast to discuss his recent experiments in finger training. We talked about the difference between active recruitment vs. passive tension in finger loading, why deadhangs may not be the best way to improve your finger strength, how to train using active finger flexion, the results he’s had with his clients, and much more. 

Become a Patron to get access to the full episode, the uncut video interview, and a 6-minute clarification video that I made for Patrons! 

*The full version is 1:34:15.

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing

Tyler’s Other Episodes:

EP 79: Tyler Nelson (July 26, 2021)

Follow-Up: Tyler Nelson (Jan 28, 2022)

This full episode is available for Patrons right now! I sat down with Ned Feehally to cover questions I wish I had asked him in our first episode. We talked about Ned’s three different protocols for Max Hangs, why he thinks 20-seconds hangs are best for long-term strength gains, when to use each of his different protocols, how I have incorporated his advice into my own finger training, and much more! Join us for more finger training geekery!

Become a Patron to get access to the full episode! And support the podcast! 

*The full version is 1:03:39.

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing

Ned’s Original Episode:

EP 113: Ned Feehally

Neil Gresham is a British climber and coach who has been at the cutting edge for over two decades. We talked about using ballet as part of his training for his FA of ‘Lexicon’ E11, the importance of developing your finishing game, extensor training for stronger fingers, go-to ring and TRX exercises, sticking our training in the bank, thumb crimping, climbing his first 5.14c (8c+) at age 45, and much more.

Listen to more top episodes!

thenuggetclimbing.com/top-lists

Check out Frictitious Climbing!

frictitiousclimbing.com

Use code "NUGGET" at checkout for free shipping on your next order!

Check out Petzl!

petzl.com

Or shop for Petzl quickdraws at your local climbing shop!

Check out PhysiVantage!

physivantage.com (link includes 15% off coupon)

Use code "NUGGET15" at checkout for 15% off your next order!

Check out Crimpd!

crimpd.com

Or download the Crimpd app! (Available for iOS and Android)

Check out Arc'teryx!

arcteryx.com

Arc'teryx Presents: Free as Can Be

We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:

• Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, Craig Lee, and Mark and Julie Calhoun

Become a Patron:

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing

Show Notes:  

thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/neil-gresham

Nuggets:

0:05:45 – The Mythical Challenge

0:18:15 – “Flitting” between different styles of climbing to keep motivation high

0:20:25 – Improving two sport grades and one trad grade between the ages of 45 and 50, and what it would take to climb 9a (14d)

0:24:49 – Feeling satisfied after climbing Lexicon (E11)

0:27:33 – Olympians, and being a series of sliders

0:30:08 – Lexicon breakdown, and Steve McClure’s 80-foot whipper

0:39:10 – Why is bold trad climbing so glorified in the UK? And the “rules” for trad areas vs. bolted areas

0:46:02 – Patron question from Elina, why Neil used ballet to train for Lexicon, and looking outside the box for ways to improve

0:50:45 – Struggling to improve at climbing, and how that led to coaching

0:58:52 – “People don’t realize how hard they can climb.”

1:01:47 – Goal setting and finishing game

1:06:33 – Getting more specific with your goals, and being willing to learn from each project

1:12:19 – The tactical and psychological skills in redpointing, and how many of the top climbers just go climbing

1:14:59 – Don’t expect your project to feel easy

1:16:31 – Unlocking things on your project when you’re feeling weak

1:21:24 – “Hard routes have been climbed in every conceivable mindset.” - Dave MacLeod

1:22:57 – Patron question from Doug: What old-school training methods get overlooked nowadays? What modern training methods got overlooked back then?

1:25:15 – Injury prevention, and extensor training for stronger fingers

1:30:23 – Rings and TRX training

1:32:42 – Neil’s go-to exercises on the rings/TRX, and feeling like an athlete after discovering rings training

1:34:29 – How to combine extensor training with your other training and climbing, and Adam Ondra’s rule for antagonist training

1:36:57 – Neil’s strength protocol for finger extensor training

1:39:23 – How to incorporate rings or TRX training into your climbing and training, and finding the appropriate amount

1:44:41 – Patron question from Jan: What should climbers who started at a later age (30s) focus on to improve, and would that be different from someone who started in their 20s?

1:46:59 – Should beginners use hangboards?

1:49:31 – How Neil and I both developed a weakness in the half crimp grip by avoiding the hangboard early on

1:52:56 – “Stick the training in the bank.”

1:56:58 – The way to make killer gains in your hangboarding: stop climbing! (And which types of climbers benefit from hangboarding)

2:01:49 – Dan Varian from Beastmaker, and other people who have influenced Neil’s climbing and training

2:02:59 – How to combine hangboarding with climbing to make gains over the long term

2:06:51 – How Neil addressed his weakness in the half crimp, and his thoughts on full crimping on the hangboard

2:11:08 – Thumb crimping

2:14:37 – Pinkie wrapping three-finger crimps, and how everything we do should be built up incrementally

2:16:34 – Why Neil’s climbing shot up between ages 45 and 50

2:23:33 – Neil’s golden rule in coaching, and taking breaks from structured training

2:27:33 – Finding balance

2:30:58 – A teaser for the keto diet conversation (let us know if you want to hear us talk about that!)

2:31:39 – Where to connect with Neil

This full episode is available for Patrons right now! This is a teaser of a follow-up is with Matt Fultz. We talked about his recent V16 sends, go-to training sessions on the spray wall, takeaways from his recent finger injury, how he incorporates hangboarding into his week, favorite hangboard protocols, why he does most of his finger training on 20mm edges, why he rarely trains on holds smaller than 10mm, and much more. 

Become a Patron to get access to the full episode! And support the podcast! 

*The full version is 1:04:24.

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing

Matt’s Originial Episode:

EP 39: Matt Fultz

Yves Gravelle is a V15 boulderer from Canada and a 3x APL World Champion (i.e. grip competitions). We talked about lessons from grip training that we can apply to climbing, the importance of simplicity and consistency, how to break down a bouldering project, basing your training on the demands of a specific goal, top 3 finger training methods, how to train full crimps, and much more.

Check out Athletic Greens!

athleticgreens.com/NUGGET

Use the link above to get a free year's supply of vitamin D + 5 travel packs!

Check out Grasshopper Climbing!

grasshopperclimbing.com

instagram.com/grasshopperclimbing

Tell them I sent you to save $500 off a fully kitted out 8'x10' Grasshopper board! 

Check out Chalk Cartel!

chalkcartel.com

Use code "NUGGET" at checkout for 20% off your next order!

We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:

• Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, and Craig Lee

Become a Patron:

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing

Show Notes:  

thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/yves-gravelle

Nuggets:

0:07:18 – How to pronounce Yves’ name, and living in Ottawa

0:09:20 – The most legendary training montage I have ever seen, and an introduction to APL

0:12:32 – Why Yves thinks climbs could represent themselves well in grip sports, and what a competition is like

0:15:22 – Specializing vs. being a well-rounded athlete in grip

0:18:11 – Balancing climbing goals with grip competitions

0:19:28 – What Yves has learned from grip sports, and taking training ideas from powerlifting

0:22:26 – How Yves bases his training around the demands of a specific boulder or goal

0:24:49 – Is it possible to combine outdoor climbing with quality finger strength training?

0:31:07 – An example training week with outdoor bouldering on Sunday

0:35:05 – Preparing your body for the amount of training you want to do, and progressively working your way up

0:36:19 – Building capacity, and learning about nutrition

0:37:55 – Reading nutritional research about bouldering

0:39:33 – How Yves has changed his diet

0:42:28 – Maintaining finger strength during off-seasons, and pushing hard for goals

0:45:51 – Finger training principles, keeping things simple, consistency, writing things down, and using RPE to measure your training

0:51:38 – Training strength when you are fresh, finishing fresh, and not going to failure (adding a buffer)

0:54:14 – Yves’ session load calculator spreadsheet

0:57:36 – Preparation cycles, and competitive cycles

1:00:45 – Jazz

1:02:13 – How Yves trained for ‘So What’ V15, and building shoulder strength and mobility

1:05:15 – Patron question from fdclimbs: Any tips for building climbing-specific shoulder strength?

1:07:34 – Yves top 3 finger training exercises for climbing

1:12:01 – Progressive warmup for finger training

1:13:58 – Micro edge training

1:15:39 – Contact strength training

1:19:20 – Summary of Yves’ top 3 finger training methods

1:21:08 – Patron question from Alan: Does Yves have a favorite way to train full crimps?

1:22:39 – Yves’ full crimp story, and how he prevents finger injuries

1:26:14 – Patron question from fdclimbs: Tips for training individual fingers? (And Yves’ grip positions and anatomy)

1:29:53 – Patron question from Alan: How does Yves balance different methods of training fingers and grip strength?

1:33:19 – Prepping for ‘Terremere’ and Hueco

1:34:17 – Patron question from Daniel: Any plans to travel to world-famous bouldering areas and try the classic V15s or V16s?

1:35:38 – 1-7-11 on the campus board (with slightly different spacing)

1:37:00 – Patron question from Daniel: Is there such thing as “enough power”? What about finger strength?

1:38:18 – Patron question from Xander: Do your finger strength gains still transfer to climbing?

1:39:28 – One of Yves’ favorite coaches to learn from

1:40:59 – When you are starting off almost anything will work

1:41:44 – Patron question from Michael: What is the smallest edge you can hang with one hand? What about two hands?

1:42:54 – Being muscular and still being strong on tiny holds, and putting on muscle mass in the right places

1:44:30 – Patron question from David: How does Yves look after his skin, especially splits and tears?

1:46:48 – Contributing to local bouldering areas, and winning the world championships

1:47:41 – Yves’ daughters and gymnastics

1:50:26 – Listen to your body, and enjoy the process

1:53:10 – Be present

1:54:39 – Wrap up

Ned Feehally is Shauna Coxsey’s husband. (Just teasing Ned!) Ned is a top-level boulderer from the UK, the cofounder of Beastmaker, and the author of Beastmaking. We talked about his background in climbing, how Beastmaker got started, Ned’s approach to finger training, the benefits of board climbing, using ankle weights for body tension, and much more.

Check out Athletic Greens!

athleticgreens.com/NUGGET

Use the link above to get a free year supply of vitamin D + 5 travel packs!

Check out Grasshopper Climbing!

grasshopperclimbing.com

instagram.com/grasshopperclimbing

Tell them I sent you to save $500 off a fully kitted out 8'x10' Grasshopper board! 

Upcoming ClimbWell Retreat! (June 9-12)

climbwell.co/retreat-rifle

Use discount code “NUGGET10” at checkout to save 10%  off your ticket!

We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:

• Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, and Craig Lee

Become a Patron:

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing

Show Notes:  

thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/ned-feehally

Nuggets:

(00:00:00) – Intro

(00:07:43) – Staying in a gite in Fontainebleau

(00:09:45) – Shauna Coxsey’s husband

(00:11:07) – A background on Ned’s climbing, some of his accomplishments, and going to college in Sheffield

(00:16:51) – Starting Beastmaker with Dan Varian, and the training paradigm in the early 2000s

(00:21:01) – Looking up to Ben Moon, Jerry Moffatt, and Malcolm Smith, and looking for ways to improve

(00:22:57) – Ned’s philosophy for improving at climbing, being well-rounded, and enjoying doing lots of climbs quickly

(00:28:20) – Ned’s dimensions, “If that’s how you’re built then so be it”, and the advantages of carrying more muscle as a climber

(00:32:08) – The leap in Ned’s climbing from hangboarding for three years (V11 to V13, or 8A to 8B), and getting a second jump from training on his cellar board (home woody)

(00:35:29) – What do people miss most frequently in their finger training?

(00:39:40) – How to combine long-term finger training with outdoor or indoor climbing

(00:45:25) – Warming up on the fingerboard for climbing sessions

(00:47:35) – Active vs. passive finger strength, and which grips Ned focuses on in his finger training

(00:52:05) – An annual overview of Ned’s finger training, and how he prepares for specific goals

(00:56:11) – How much variety should you have in your finger training?

(00:59:24) – Training one grip type per session

(01:02:12) – The genetic component of finger strength

(01:05:54) – How Ned structures a week of finger training

(01:10:19) – Mixing max hangs and repeaters, and sticking with protocols for 10 sessions

(01:14:25) – Ned’s thoughts on only training half crimp

(01:16:33) – The balance of Ned’s finger training and outdoor climbing

(01:20:19) – Ned’s home wall, and making his own wooden holds

(01:22:19) – Patron question from Finn: Three best tools for making wooden holds?

(01:24:21) – Ned’s thinking on using the commercial gym and climbing on “normal” gym boulders

(01:26:11) – Structuring a board session (bouldering)

(01:28:28) – The board culture in the UK, and how every board has its own character

(01:32:09) – Targeting move types in a sessions

(01:32:55) – Bouldering with ankle weights

(01:39:42) – Expectations when it comes to finger training, and trusting the process

(01:42:38) – Taking time completely off from climbing, and the perspective you get when you get your hand forced by injuries

(01:48:26) – Patron question from Gunter: How long has Ned been hangboarding? How much has his finger strength increased during that time? How well have those gains translated to climbing performance?

(01:54:01) – Using training as a chance to learn how hard you can pull if you try really hard

(01:55:55) – Patron question from Mihail: How do your training approaches change depending on if you need to work on active vs. passive gripping?

(01:57:09) – Patron question from Moritz: Where does Ned put his thumb when crimping on the fingerboard?

(02:00:19) – Patron question from Simon: Can Ned attribute any breakthroughs in his climbing to changes in his mindset or other lifestyle factors?

(02:02:29) – What it was like supporting Shauna through her Olympic preparation

(02:03:59) – Patron question from Alistair: Does Ned train contact strength?

(02:05:13) – Patron question from Andrew: How important is flexibility for tall climbers? And what does his bare minimum stretching session look like?

(02:06:12) – Ned’s stretching routine

(02:10:14) – Science podcasts

(02:11:19) – Patron question from fdclimbs: Favorite bouldering area in the Lakes District?

(02:12:29) – Whether V16 is a goal for Ned, how surprised he is to be climbing at his current level, and finding hard challenges regardless of the grade

(02:17:12) – Flashing ‘Trust Issues’ V14 in Rocklands, and the flashing mindset

(02:20:40) – Adding to the community through Beastmaker and writing the book Beastmaking, and a kid on the way!

(02:23:58) – What's next for Beastmaker

(02:25:19) – Where to buy the book (links in show notes)

Tim Emmett is a professional climber from the UK who practices everything from cutting edge ice climbing to deep water soloing to hard sport climbing. We talked about the gritstone scene in the UK, the “why” behind taking risk, climbing his hardest after age 40 and becoming a parent, training finger strength to try to climb ‘Era Vella’ 9a (5.14d), and passing on life philosophies to others.

Check out Athletic Greens!

athleticgreens.com/NUGGET

Use the link above to get a free year supply of vitamin D + 5 travel packs!

Check out Rhino Skin Solutions!

rhinoskinsolutions.com

Use code “NUGGET” at checkout for 20% off your next order!

We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:

• Bryan Fast, Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, and Scott Donahue

Become a Patron:

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing

Show Notes:  

thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/tim-emmett

Nuggets:

0:07:15 – Being a morning person as a parent

0:10:33 – Coffee and morning rituals

0:12:00 – Podcasting as an excuse to have amazing conversations

0:17:29 – The Gritstone scene “back in the day”, living with Neil Gresham in Sheffield, and falling off of the ‘End of the Affair’ E8

0:22:50 – Tim explains the gritstone E grade system

0:24:15 – Trying for the second ascent of ‘Meshuga’, and close calls on the grit

0:35:43 – The “Why” behind grit climbing

0:42:45 – The opportunity to do things you find easy, vs. things you find difficult or challenging, and how breakdowns lead to breakthroughs

0:45:32 – Creativity, and why taking risk is an essential step in doing your best work

0:47:10 – “People want to look good”, embracing vulnerability, and choosing the meaning we give to our lives

0:51:10 – Letting go of being “right”

0:52:54 – Switching to an “us” perspective, and asking questions rather than telling

0:55:31 – The ego journey, and doing things that bring us into the moment

1:04:40 – Trying ‘Era Vella’ 5.14d (9a), and Tim’s journey of discovery, and changing the word “failure” to “learning”

1:09:47 – What Tim has changed to try to get higher on ‘Era Vella’, the magic of finger strength training, and the 10 dials

1:12:15 – How Tim became a stronger climber after turning 40 and becoming a parent, and some of Tim’s inspirations in climbing

1:20:46 – Being out in nature, Tim’s philosophy for staying stoked, and choosing to see the positive

1:28:13 – “The magic formula is having strong fingers.”

1:33:03 – How some specific training and some consistency can transform your climbing

1:34:21 – Tim’s 4-month protocol for getting ready for ‘Era Vella’ (eating whole foods, cutting alcohol, running, etc.)

1:41:51 – Recent injuries, and Tim’s progress on the hangboard

1:48:39 – How Tim’s climbing fitness ebbs and flows,  how he structures his 4-month lead up to a goal, and his specific strength training plan for ‘Era Vella’

1:59:26 – How Tim and his friends would train for hard ice climbing in Helmken Falls

2:01:00 – Core exercises, pushups, and antagonist training

2:02:20 – Power endurance training, and how Tim trained power endurance for ‘Era Vella’ in his gym in Squamish using circuits

2:07:23 – Combining hangboarding to failure with bouldering to simulate route climbing

2:07:59 – Applying breathing techniques (hypoxic training) from freediving to sport climbing or high-altitude climbing

2:11:33 – Cold-water swimming

2:13:17 – Bringing breathing techniques from freediving into rock climbing and ice climbing, pressure breathing, and Wim Hof breathing techniques

2:21:35 – What connects all of Tim’s different interests, collecting life experiences, and curiosity of human performance

2:25:23 – Public speaking, inspiring kids to open up their lives, and giving them the tools to take on their dreams

2:29:34 – Having an open mind, and Tim’s other life philosophies

2:32:30 – Being friendly, and listening to people

2:34:29 – Where to connect with Tim, and more about his coaching

2:37:08 – “Life is what’s happening right now.”

This full episode is available for Patrons right now! This is a teaser of a follow-up with Tom Randall. We went deep into how to program your training as a self-coached climber. We talked about how to use your friends to discover your strengths and weaknesses, how to work backward from goals, how long it takes to make major changes in your climbing like switching from bouldering to sport climbing, and much more. 

*This is one of the most valuable episodes I have ever recorded, for anyone who wants to improve at climbing. Seriously. Don’t skip this episode if you are interested in training.

Become a Patron to get access to the full episode! And support the podcast! 

*The full version is 1:44:52.

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing

Tom's Original Episode:

EP 74: Tom Randall

This full episode is available for Patrons right now! This is a teaser of a follow-up call with Tyler Nelson. We talked about a recent study Tyler did with 23 different climbers to measure their finger tendon and bone lengths, and their ability to generate force on different edge sizes. We covered Tyler’s latest recommendations for max strength finger training, how to get stronger on small holds, and when and how to use hangboard repeaters. 

Become a Patron to get access to the full episode! And support the podcast! 

*The full version is 1:16:59.

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing

Tyler’s Original Episode:

EP 79: Tyler Nelson

Emil Abrahamsson is an elite boulderer, route setter, and YouTuber from Sweden. We talked about goal setting and projecting his first V15 as a V9 climber, the importance of psych and inspiration, experimenting with hangboarding two times per day, how to do one-arm pullups, sharing the experience of outdoor climbing through films, and making a living through his YouTube channel.

Support the Podcast:

thenuggetclimbing.com/support

Become a Patron:

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing

Show Notes:  

thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/emil-abrahamsson

Nuggets:

3:11 – Building a van and planning a bouldering trip around Europe

6:01 – My bouldering goals, Emil’s progression, and setting goals

9:27 – Trying a V15 as a V9 climber, and how a lot of climbers stay “comfortable” at a specific level

12:53 – ‘The Big Island’ 

17:17 – Emil’s first day of climbing, struggling early on, and getting hooked

19:38 – Alternating difficulty and volume goals

21:32 – ‘The Queen Mother’ (Emil’s first 8B/V13 project in Stockholm), and the limiting power of expectations

29:21 – Reflecting on ‘The Queen Mother’, and prioritizing psych and motivation

32:00 – Felix

37:13 – “Swiss Recruitment”, or the Swiss style of projecting

41:00 – How Emil got into YouTubing, capturing the experience of outdoor climbing, and my impression as a viewer

44:27 – Forgetting to charge the batteries, and the stress vs. fun of filming

47:42 – Work-life balance when you love your work, and turning YouTubing into a career

49:34 – How to balance capturing footage with training or performing, and capturing the good and the bad

51:15 – Emil’s “No Hangs” hangboard video, and his caveat for training advice

56:00 – Quick overview of the “No Hang” hangboard protocol, and Emil’s theory of why his fingers got stronger

1:00:16 – We get most of our strength through climbing

1:01:41 – 4x4s and other climbing games 

1:04:10 – Training your strengths, and practicing weaknesses through climbing

1:06:59 – How Emil structures his training, and embracing the stretching “pain game”

1:11:49 – Turning challenges into positives, and the benefits Emil has noticed from stretching

1:14:46 – Patron question from Florian about avoiding crimping early on in his climbing, and how Emil worked to improve his crimp strength later

1:18:34 – How Emil rewired his brain to think, “Full crimps are comfortable. I can enjoy these.”

1:19:32 – Emil’s crimp progression and current level

1:21:53 – One-arm pull-ups, 4mm crimps, front levers, and getting weaker on purpose to get better at technique

1:28:55 – Emil’s recommendations for progressing to a one-arm pullup

1:33:41 – How Emil pronounces his name, and a Patron question from Flynn about training for indoors vs. outdoors and competing in World Cups

1:41:12 – Flash training 

1:43:44 – World Cup goals, and the flame of competition

1:47:34 – What is one of the weirdest/worst training experiments that you’ve tried?

1:50:24 – Favorite films, the critical eye, and the need for consistent content

1:54:48 – Recommendations for new viewers

1:56:35 – Emil’s dream collaboration

1:58:17 – Gratitude

2:01:03 – Finishing the van, and plans for Switzerland and Italy

Dr. Tyler Nelson is the owner of Camp4 Human Performance and specializes in tendon loading, strengthening, and rehabilitation. We talked about blood flow restriction training (BFR), and how it can be used for injury rehab, active recovery, or getting stronger. We also talked about finger training, and why most hangboard protocols are more similar than different.

Support the Podcast

Become a Patron

Join Facebook Group

Show Notes:  

thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/tyler-nelson

Nuggets:

2:18 – Doughnuts and wiffle ball

6:08 – Overview of the conversation, and Tyler’s dad

11:53 – Chiropractic medicine and watching his dad help people as a kid

14:48 – Tyler’s education

16:38 – Starting to climb in college

18:43 – Wanting to work with athletes, and studying tendinopathy

21:06 – Tyler’s path to C4HP (Camp 4 Human Performance) and the work he does now

25:48 – Root cause

28:29 – Tyler’s most common recommendation: more variation

32:33 – How BFR (blood flow restriction) was created

37:31 – What BFR looks like, what’s happening, and why it works

45:41 – How you would use BFR for a shoulder injury, and literal vs. physiological intensity

51:36 – How you would use  BRF to rehab a pulley injury

54:18 – Why Tyler underpressurized the cuffs the first time he does BFR with an athlete

56:33 – Should you try BRF at home?

58:43 – A BRF protocol Tyler tried for finger strength training

1:02:40 – How you might use BRF for training (big picture)

1:05:20 – How often should you use BFR?

1:07:03 – Repeaters vs. max hangs, and how to think about long-term finger training

1:12:15 – Why is BRF useful as a short-term recovery tool?

1:15:02 – Using BRF prior to your sessions, and for warming up for hard climbing 

1:18:31 – Finger training doesn’t need to be complicated

1:20:09 – Density hangs

1:22:58 – Emil Abrahamsson, Keith Bar, and the “No Hangs” hangboard protocol

1:31:20 – The optimal loading range for tendon pathologies, and why most strength protocols are more similar than they are different

1:34:45 – Tendon stiffness, and how unloading can stiffen the system

1:38:58 – Speculating about physiological explanations for why Emil’s program worked so well

1:40:58 – Don’t get sweaty and tired on the hangboard, and separating hangboard training from our climbing workouts 

1:44:58 – Finger anatomy, condiles, bone lengths, customized finger training

1:52:33 – Doughnut eating

1:53:46 – New tattoo

1:55:03 – Guitar riffs

1:57:20 – Tyler’s wife

Tom Randall is one of the Wide Boyz, and the cofounder of Lattice Training. We talked about Tom’s cellar, meeting Ollie Torr and starting a coaching company, how he and Ollie trained each other's weaknesses, having patience, key shoulder exercises, hangboard principles, stories from the Late Night Climbing Show, and Tom shared his insights into my own finger strength journey.

Support on Patreon:  

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing 

Show Notes:  

http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/tom-randall

Nuggets:

3:35 – The cellar 

6:47 – Patron Question from Felix: Why did Tom start Lattice Training, and how important is data?  

11:25 – Meeting Ollie Torr and testing his finger strength

14:15 – How Tom helped Ollie improve his endurance and efficiency, and a message about patience

18:19 – What Tom did to get strong

23:14 – Key TRX and rings exercises for the shoulders

28:30 – My finger strength journey, and Tom’s insight into my training habits

37:59 – Finger training methodology, and off-season vs in-season training

45:50 – Is increasing training capacity (work capacity) a good goal?

49:20 – Hangboard protocol principles

54:47 – Patron Question from Sarah: Should new climbers “just climb” rather than train?

59:29 – Question from Steve McClure: Common deficiencies in route climbers who want to improve their standard?

1:02:39 – Question from Vijay: Relationship between finger strength and grade?

1:04:12 – Question from Lena: Favorite non-crack climb?

1:05:03 – Question from Lena: Most horrible crack climb you’ve ever done?

1:05:55: Bonus question from Lena: If you could put Jacob Schubert on any crack climb, which would you choose?

1:06:35 – Question from Nick: Balancing fun and hard work

1:08:41 – The Late Night Climbing Show

1:14:42 – The Lattice YouTube channel

1:16:02 – Gratitude

Eric Hörst is the author of the international bestselling book Training for Climbing and the founder of PhysiVantage. We talked about his dual career as a meteorologist and climbing coach, early route development, how training has evolved, the roles of campusing vs. hangboarding in improving finger strength, why coaching is like 3D chess, and how to train your core.

Discount code: 

“NUGGET15” for 15% off of full-priced PhysiVantage products

Support on Patreon:  

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing 

Show Notes:  

http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/eric-horst-part-1

Nuggets:

6:01 – Weatherman

11:31 – Snowstorms, solving complex puzzles, and similarities between forecasting weather and training for climbing

15:18 – The best send conditions

17:38 – TV weather and developing routes in the New River Gorge

18:56 – Eric’s first day of climbing

21:15 – Patron Question from Max (Eric’s history climbing in PA, and early development at the New)

24:29 – Patron Question from Adriel (the early days at the New River Gorge)

27:27 – Favorite first ascents from the New 

28:32 – Embracing bolting and sport climbing

34:17 – The style of bolting in the 90s, becoming a student of climbing, and Eric’s first training articles

38:24 – The training paradigm in the 80s (“climber’s don’t train”)

40:56 – Early training experiments, wooden blocks on the rafters, pull-ups for slab climbing, and the revolution of climbing gyms

47:42 – The modern “weekend warrior”

49:13 – Early intuitive training methodologies, and the “shotgun approach” to training

56:17 – Applying the 80/20 rule to training

1:00:21 – The mental side of climbing, and not getting too focused on one training implement

1:07:53 – Patron Question from Matt (the dos and don’ts of hiring a coach)

1:12:33 – A new paradigm in connective tissue training

1:16:40 – The different effects of hangboarding vs. campusing on finger tendons

1:24:33 – How to combine hangboarding and campus boarding to balance performance and resiliency

1:29:53 – Patron Question from Liam (benefits of linear and non-linear programs)

1:34:59 – End range strength, and the 3D chess of coaching

1:41:42 – Core strength, and limiting belief systems

1:47:05 – Deadlifting

1:52:43 – Weighted planks

1:54:31 – Deadlifting + bouldering with small footholds

1:59:16 – Reinventing your training, and sticking with things long enough to see if they work

This full episode is available for Patrons right now! This is a teaser of a follow-up call with Mike Doyle. We talked about some of the exercises that have helped Mike in his recovery from his elbow injury, working with Natasha Barnes and retraining his brain to reduce pain, and Mike shared his go-to hangboard protocol for maintaining finger strength throughout the year between training blocks. 

You can support the podcast and get access to follow-up conversations for $5 per month on Patreon at patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing. The full version of this follow-up call is 30:04.

This is part 2 of my conversation with Jon Glassberg. We talked about flexibility training, how Jon uses the MoonBoard and why he thinks it is such a useful tool, why how he structures a six-week training block, an example training day, the value of training with a partner, favorite Louder Than Eleven films, and foreign haircuts.  

Support on Patreon:   

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing   

Show Notes:   

http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/jon-glassberg-part-2  

Nuggets:  

4:34 – Flexibility training, and the pain cave  

10:34 – Jon’s improvement in the spits  

13:30 – Why splits training probably isn’t that important, and practicing climbing in a small box  

14:56 – The distinction between training vs. just bouldering in the gym, and the value of the training boards (MoonBoard, Tension, etc)  

16:11 – Jon’s MoonBoard training, and the “Top 10 climbs in a day” system  

21:20 – How MoonBoard gains transfer to outdoor bouldering, and learning to execute  

22:46 – How Jon structures his training week  

27:36 – An example training day, mock comps, and climbing with a weight vest  

31:40 – Indoor projecting days, and how Jon structures a six-week training block, and resting  

34:24 – Some of the testing Jon did with Steve Maisch  

37:14 – Building up your training capacity, why it’s ok to suck some days, and seeing improvement after resting at the end of a training block  

39:21 – Budgeting a week to relearn how to climb after getting strong  

40:32 – How Jon’s six-week training blocks fit into a year, and the value of a training partner  

42:58 – Forced time off, maintaining finger strength, and warming up with a hangboard in addition to climbing  

46:14 – Skin  

47:38 – Jon’s guidelines for warmup up  

50:20 – More about one-arm max hangs, how to progress the load, and where to start out  

54:54 – “Don’t go into training half-assed”  

55:45 – Hangboard repeaters, and how Jon structures a six-week block  

1:00:29 – Feeling like a boxer, and going to the gym to win  

1:02:19 – Jon’s thoughts on MoondBoard vs. Tension Board vs. Kilter Board vs. Beastmaker Board  

1:04:11 – Jon’s recommendations for my Hueco “training” trip  

1:07:39 – Project shopping, the relativity of grades, and the value of throwing yourself at something hard  

1:10:33 – Sean Rabatou and the value of projecting with other people  

1:12:59 – How Jon’s climbing schedule has changed over the years, and needing more rest days  

1:15:02 – FA of ‘King’s Landing’  

1:16:26 – Good food and haircuts  

1:17:26 – ‘The Abyss’ film  

1:18:23 – Recent and upcoming films from LT11  

1:20:01 – Gratitude for family and friends  

1:20:48 – What Jon hopes to accomplish with LT11, and with his own climbing  

Matt Fultz is a professional climber who is at the top of the bouldering game right now. We talked about sending ‘Hypnotized Minds’ V16, a typical day of projecting, deadlifting for finger strength, prioritizing strength before weight, practicing like you play, Mad Rock shoes, using your build as a gift, and starting OTG Strength with his wife Hailey.  

Support on Patreon:

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  

Show Notes:  

http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/matt-fultz  

Nuggets:  

2:22 – The send McFlurry, and a well-earned “cheat day”  

5:06 – ‘Hypnotized Minds’  

5:41 – Matt’s active rest day before a project day, and warming up for V16  

8:52 – Raising your body temp before climbing  

9:39 – Splitting time between projects, active rest days in the gym, and crimping on Hypno  

11:22 – What a project session looks like, and “I always go by feel”  

14:01 – What the send session looked like, Matt’s send temps, and “the colder the better”  

15:28 – Using your build as a gift, scrunch power, and working on weaknesses while taking advantage of strengths  

18:22 – “Strength comes first”  

18:52 – Balancing performance with training  

21:38 – “Practice like you play”, climbing on boards, the role of weight lifting, and “the most important thing is climbing”  

23:48 – Matt’s go-to weight-room exercises, and a teaser for OTG (more later in the episode)  

24:03 – Deadlifting w/ Tension Blocks vs. hanging from a hangboard  

26:48 – Matt’s grip selection for finger training, and grip training frequency (Off Season: every other day. Performance Season: once or twice per week)  

29:07 – How Matt decides between the different boards he climbs on  

30:52 – The importance of a strong support system  

33:10 – Matt’s trip to Australia w/ Jimmy Webb, Paul Robinson, and Nalle Hukkataival, and bouldering with a new level of detail  

35:07 – Nutrition timing, and planning meals around climbing, or vice versa  

37:08 – Matt’s pre-workout meal  

38:37 – The Mad Rock ‘Drones’  

42:16 – Drones sizing (about 1.5 to 2 US sizes down from your street shoe)  

44:50 – OTG Strength and how to train with Matt  

49:24 – Balancing working/coaching with climbing  

50:52 – Switching gears after ‘Hypnotized Minds’, project shopping, and climbing for fun  

52:23 – Moving to CO and having access to a lot of hard boulders  

53:40 – Dreams of van life  

54:26 – Gratitude  

55:30 – Where to connect with Matt  

56:03 – Progressing every year, drawing inspiration from Jimmy Webb and Dave Graham, and goals  

58:34 – The RV Moonboard  

1:00:03 – “We will enjoy our Oreos today”  

Charlie Manganiello has been coaching with Climb Strong for seven years and now heads the Elemental Strength program in Lander, WY. We talked about focusing all of your energy on one thing, misconceptions about deadlifting, maintenance strength training, Charlie’s go-to hangboard protocol, why climbing is important, and keeping things in perspective.  

Support on Patreon:

patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  

Show Notes:  

http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/charlie-manganiello  

Nuggets:  

1:28 – Breakfast  

2:32 – Early strength training, transitioning from multisport athlete to focused climber, and taking things “all the way”  

10:07 – Outliers, and asking ourselves “how good could I be if I focused all my energy on one thing”  

11:24 – stated goals vs. action, and the coaches role  

12:24 – Cushy sport climbing  

14:02 – How Charlie’s early strength training translated to climbing  

15:49 – Cross pollinated athletes, the 75/25 rule, and  being “strong enough”  

18:24 – The benefits of going deep into strength training, “it’s not bodybuilding”, and the myth of gaining mass  

20:37 – Connective tissue adaptation, motor recruitment, and becoming a more functional human  

21:26 – Balancing the pull with the push  

23:07 – Deadlifting, running, and learning through experience  

27:05 – Treating your recovery like a workout, and watching climbing videos  

29:00 – Deadlifting 400 lbs  

32:40 – Charlie’s strength maintenance routine  

34:08 – Misconceptions about the deadlift, magic bullets, and the posterior chain  

38:17 – Deadlift numbers to shoot for, and the line between strength training for climbing vs. becoming a strength athlete  

42:13 – Using the weight room to stay in the game  

44:40 – Low hanging fruit: a few simple ways to climb harder (and why strength isn’t everything)  

47:45 – “Train general to improve specific.”  

49:15 – Increasing the push for healthy shoulders and a stronger pull  

50:50 – Mobility  

51:34 – Lower body explosiveness, and foot-on campus doubles  

54:43 – Unilateral lower-body training  

55:35 – The Bottoms-up Turkish Getup (with a glass of water balanced on top)  

58:52 – The ideal vs. working with what you have  

1:00:40 – Carryover from crushing grip strength to climbing?  

1:03:01 – Charlie’s go-to hangboard protocol  

1:06:20 – Charlie’s thoughts on 7:13 repeaters and when to do them  

1:07:21 – “You’re either training or you’re performing. You can’t do both.”  

1:08:47 – Strength maintenance at the end of a performance day  

1:09:33 – “Climbing is really important to people.”  

1:10:59 – Keeping climbing in perspective, but not letting go of it completely  

1:15:33 – Self-talk, lessons from golf, and putting our negativity away  

1:17:38 – “This is where I’m at.”