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It’s three years since the then prime minister Boris Johnson announced the first national lockdown in an attempt to halt the spread of covid. So, as we move on from the last pandemic, what might cause the next one? And have we learned enough this time round to stop it before it gets out of hand?

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Guest: Ben Spencer, Science Editor, The Sunday Times.

Host: Sean O'Neill. 

Clips: BBC News, Al Jazeera, Parliament.

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A lot has changed since our last episode covering the numbers behind the coronavirus - for a start it now has a name, Covid-19. This week news has broken that deaths are 20 per cent higher than thought, and the number of cases has increased by a third. Tim Harford talks to Dr Nathalie MacDermott, a clinical lecturer at King’s College London about what we know – and what we still don’t.