peter pomerantsev

Peter Pomerantsev visited Penn State at the end of March, when he was just back from a trip to Ukraine. We discuss what he saw there, as well as how American media is covering the war. We also talk about the similarities between Ukraine and the United States when it comes to being vulnerable to Russian disinformation — and how both countries can strengthen democratic media. 

Pomerantsev is a senior fellow at the SNF Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins University and author of the books This Is Not Propaganda: Adventures in the War Against Reality and Everything Is True and Nothing Is Possible : The Surreal Heart of the New Russia. 

Additional Information

Peter's lecture on Ukraine at Penn State

Peter's article on Ukraine in Time

Peter's article on Ukraine in The Economist

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Peter Pomerantsev is a  journalist, author, TV producer and among many other things, a Visiting Senior Fellow at the Institute of Global Affairs at the London School of Economics.

I reached out to speak with Peter because of his brilliant book and the subject of this podcast, ‘This Is Not Propaganda’. The chat was a terrific blast for me. Peter brought tremendous enthusiasm to the conversation and as well he managed to show off his broad erudition in the explanation of politics and propaganda.

You can expect to hear in this podcast with Peter Pomerantsev about the following and more…

• Why Identity Issues Are At The Root Of Populism.
• The Distinction Between The Facts & The Narrative.
• Why Peter Doesn’t Rate Churchill As A Good Writer.
• Why Good Propaganda Hinges Solely On One's Ability To Collect Data.
• Plus more and more and more…

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• 00:00 – Introduction To Peter Pomerantsev.
• 02:53 – I Am Fluent In Russian.
• 04:28 – Australian Archetypal Example Of The Divided World.
• 13:18 – Good Propaganda Is About How Good Your Data Is.
• 16:03 – The Role Of Identity & It’s Link To Populism.
• 42:53 – Craziness For No Reason Is Fun, But Ends Up Wiping Everything Out.
• 46:35 – The Minority Rule, Nassim Taleb.
• 49:58 – Why Impartiality Is Fraudulent & All That Remains Is Being More Genuine.
• 57:50 – Mexico & AMLO.
• 1:01:03 – The Distinction Between Facts & Narrative.
• 1:16:20 – What’s Happening In Belarus?
• 1:22:08 – Question From Peter’s Biggest Fan… My Mother In Law.
• 1:27:40 – Why Peter Hates This Famous Churchill Quote.
• 1:33:29 – Discussing Sweden.
• 1:36:23 – How Is The Medium Of Propaganda Going To Change Going Forward?
• 1:41:21 – What Country Is Peter Most Bullish On?
• 1:48:09 – Conversation Between Any Two People Of History.
• 1:49:51 – My Afterthoughts.

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Misinformation, disinformation, propaganda — the terms are thrown around a lot but often used to describe the same general trend toward conspiratorial thinking that spread from the post-Soviet world to the West over the past two decades. Peter Pomerantsev had a front seat to this shift and is one of the people trying to figure out how to make the Internet more democratic and combat disinformation from both the supply side and the demand side. 

These issues came to a head in the United States last week as Liz Cheney was removed from her leadership position in Congress for not pledging her support to the lies surrounding a rigged 2020 election. Michael and Chris begin with a discussion of this dynamic before the interview.

Pomerantsev is a senior fellow at the London School of Economics and the SNF Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins University. He is the author of This is Not Propaganda: Adventures in the War Against Reality and Nothing is True and Everything Is Possible: Adventures in Modern Russia. He has a forthcoming project with Anne Applebaum that will examine why people believe in conspiracies and how to create content that fosters collaboration, rather than sows division. 

Additional Information

This is Not Propaganda: Adventures in the War Against Reality

How to Put Out Democracy's Dumpster Fire - article with Anne Applebaum in The Atlantic

Peter Pomerantsev on Twitter

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