presidential accountability

A few days ago, when the House committee investigating Jan. 6 issued a subpoena to former President Donald J. Trump, it raised a legal question: Can Congress compel a former president to testify?

The committee’s move, while dramatic, is not without precedent.

What do presidential subpoenas of the past teach us about the moment we’re in, and about what the former president might do next?

Guest: Luke Broadwater, a congressional reporter for The New York Times.

Background reading: 

• The Jan. 6 committee issued a subpoena to Mr. Trump, paving the way for a potentially historic court fight over whether Congress can compel testimony from a former president.
• If the former president fights the subpoena, his lawyers are likely to muster a battery of constitutional and procedural arguments for why a court should allow him not to testify.

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

The Jan. 6 hearings have made it clear that Donald Trump led a concerted, monthslong effort to overturn a democratic election. The extensive interviews — over 1,000 — that the House select committee conducted prove that Trump was told there was no evidence of election fraud, but he pressed his anti-democratic case regardless. And it appears that the hearings may be making an impact on public opinion: An ABC News/Ipsos survey released Sunday found that 58 percent of respondents believe Trump should be charged with a crime for his role in the Jan. 6 attack, up from 52 percent in April.

But after all the evidence comes to light, will he actually face legal consequences? If the answer is no, then what might future presidents — including, perhaps, Trump himself — be emboldened to do? And what would that mean for the future of the American political system?

Jamelle Bouie is a Times Opinion columnist and co-host of the podcast “Unclear and Present Danger.” Bouie brings a remarkable historical depth to his writing about American politics. His columns about Jan. 6 — and the troubling idiosyncrasies of Trump’s presidency before it — have shown how the former president’s illiberal actions have threatened the constitutional foundation of American government. So I asked him on the show to help me process the Jan. 6 hearings with an eye to America’s past, and also to its uncertain future.

We discuss why Jan. 6 may be not just an insurrection but “a kind of revolution or, at least, the very beginning of one”; how the anti-democratic nature of the American Constitution makes our system vulnerable to demagogues like Trump; the most important takeaways from the hearings so far; what could happen in 2024 if Trump is allowed to walk free; what Trump allies are already doing to gain power over elections; why refusing to prosecute Trump would itself be a “radical act”; why Republicans have grown increasingly suspicious of — and hostile to — representative democracy; why Bouie thinks prosecuting Trump would be worth the political fallout it would cause; and more.

Mentioned:

“Trump Had a Mob. He Also Had a Plan.” by Jamelle Bouie

“America Punishes Only a Certain Kind of Rebel” by Jamelle Bouie

“Prosecute Trump? Put Yourself in Merrick Garland’s Shoes.” by Jack Goldsmith

Book recommendations:

Free Soil, Free Labor, Free Men by Eric Foner

Salmon P. Chase by Walter Stahr

What It Took to Win by Michael Kazin

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