Podcast Summary
Reflections on Early Political Careers and the Iraq War: Rory Stewart and Alastair Campbell discussed their personal experiences during the Iraq War, highlighting how early political careers shape perspectives and experiences. They acknowledged the military's success in toppling Saddam Hussein but emphasized the immense challenges of nation-building and intervention.
Key takeaway from this discussion on the 20th anniversary of the Iraq War is that the early stages of a political career can greatly shape one's perspective and experiences. Rory Stewart and Alastair Campbell, co-hosts of the Rest is Politics podcast, shared their personal experiences during this period. For Rory, his formative experiences began in 1995 when he joined the foreign office and later served in Iraq from 2003 to 2005. Alastair, on the other hand, had his earliest experiences during the 1980s. During their second episode on Iraq, they discussed the military operation's success in toppling Saddam Hussein but the challenges that followed. Alastair recalled his first visit to Iraq post-invasion, where he was struck by the military's impressive performance but also the immense scale of the challenge ahead. He shared that he was preoccupied with the BBC report that led to the Hutton Inquiry and the tragic suicide of David Kelly. Rory, too, was struck by the impressive troops and the work they were doing but acknowledged that the battle was won, but there was still a long way to go. Overall, their conversation underscored the complexities and challenges of nation-building and intervention thousands of miles away from one's own country.
Establishing Authority in Post-Invasion Iraq: A Complex Process: Young diplomats faced immense challenges in maintaining order, recruiting police forces, and managing infrastructure in post-invasion Iraq, with the help of experienced advisors.
The early stages of establishing authority in post-invasion Iraq proved to be a challenging and complex process. The involvement of individuals who had initially resisted military operations added to the difficulties. Rory, a British diplomat, was deployed to Iraq in August 2003, having finished a long walk across Asia. Upon arrival, he was tasked with helping to govern the Misan and later Nasiriyah provinces, with a combined population of over 3 million people. At the time, he was only 30 years old and responsible for maintaining order, recruiting a police force, and managing basic infrastructure needs such as electricity and oil. Despite the challenges, individuals like Andy Bear Park, a former adviser to Margaret Thatcher, played crucial roles in keeping morale high and providing guidance. The experience of Rory and others illustrates the complex and multifaceted nature of post-conflict reconstruction efforts.
Complexities of Rebuilding Iraq: Rebuilding Iraq faced numerous challenges including resistance, unintended consequences, and lack of basic necessities, leading to Iran's increased influence.
The Iraq War involvement of various nations, including the US and UK, created a complex situation where those on the ground felt disconnected from policy-making and faced numerous challenges. While attempting to rebuild Iraq, they encountered resistance and unintended consequences, such as the strengthening of Iranian influence. Despite the ambitious plans for economic deregulation and constitutional changes, the lack of basic necessities like electricity and the presence of civil unrest made progress difficult. The intervention, unintendedly, handed significant power to Iran.
Tensions between Americans and British during Iraq's post-invasion administration: The registration of political parties revealed armed militias, disbanding Ba'ath party led to insurgency, British saw American and British involvement as imperial, many British officials saw intervention as a failure and tried to hand over control to Iraqi militias, causing friction with Americans.
The post-invasion administration of Iraq was marked by significant tensions between the Americans and the British. One notable incident involved the registration of political parties, where a representative from Hezbollah mentioned having issued Kalashnikovs to every member, indicating the presence of armed militias. The decision to disband the Ba'ath party led to many senior officials joining the insurgency. Despite working for the Coalition Provisional Authority, the British did not report to the British leadership, but rather to Paul Bremer directly. The British were reportedly uninterested in the details of the situation in Iraq and saw the American and British involvement as an imperial colonial government. By late 2003, many British military officers and diplomats had concluded that the intervention was a failure and were trying to hand over control to Iraqi militias, causing friction with the Americans.
Experiences in the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq: The British faced challenges in making a sustainable impact in Iraq despite their efforts to restore schools and clinics, as the local population's perception of them shifted from allies to occupiers.
Serving in the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq after the invasion was a challenging experience. The Americans held the power, and the British were trying to make a difference at the edges, but it was frustrating. One notable attempt was to recruit Jeremy Greenstock for a role in the CPA, but he declined. Another difficult moment came when John Scarlett expressed concerns about the absence of weapons of mass destruction. Despite feeling that they were making a difference week by week, the efforts were not sustainable or enduring. The local population's mood shifted quickly from celebrating Saddam's fall to viewing the foreign forces as an occupying force. The British were able to restore some schools and clinics, but rebuilding an entire province was a long-term process. Some people remembered the efforts made, while others saw the British as having gotten rid of Saddam Hussein and little else.
The Invasion of Iraq Led to the Rise of Militias and ISIS: The invasion of Iraq in 2003 resulted in the rapid emergence of Iranian-linked militias and the beginnings of ISIS due to the Shia population's perception of foreign military occupation, and the debathification decision's impact on alienating Saddam's senior people.
The invasion of Iraq in 2003, specifically in Southern Iraq, led to the rapid rise of Iranian-linked militias and the beginnings of ISIS. The Shia population, who were initially pleased with the removal of Saddam Hussein, soon felt like they were fighting for Islam and Iraq against foreign military occupation. Conspiracy theories spread, linking the coalition forces with Israel, the white slave trade, and the search for red mercury. During his final moments in Nasiriyah, Paul Bremer was trapped in his compound under attack, trying to evacuate his staff and convince Baghdad to send in air support. When he returned in 2005, he found that his former enemies had been elected as governors and provincial councilors. The debathification decision played a critical role in the development of ISIS as many of Saddam's senior people, particularly in Sunni areas, felt alienated and joined extremist groups. The assumption that there would be a functioning civil service was incorrect, and the heavy foreign footprint created chaos, with armed groups taking over various departments. The decision to create a heavy foreign footprint was a strategic mistake, as the coalition forces should have let the Iraqis take the lead. This heavy-handed approach, influenced by the wrong lessons learned from Bosnia and Kosovo, ultimately contributed to the collapse of the Iraqi state into tribal and Islamist groups.
Lessons from Iraq and Afghanistan shaping U.S. foreign policy: The experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan have influenced U.S. foreign policy, with the heavy-handed approach leading to mistrust and instability, eroding American legitimacy and contributing to a more violent world. The lessons learned may have influenced the decision not to intervene in Syria.
The lessons learned from military interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan have had significant consequences for subsequent foreign policy decisions. Initially, there were limited troop deployments and local leadership in both countries. However, the U.S. eventually adopted a heavy-handed approach, leading to mistrust and instability. This experience, particularly the humiliation in Iraq, eroded American legitimacy and contributed to a more violent and chaotic world. In the case of Syria, the excessive lesson learned from Iraq may have influenced the decision not to intervene despite the use of chemical weapons. The speakers also discussed the role of personal connections and motivations in political donations. In the end, the U.S. foreign policy landscape has been shaped by the experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan, with both successes and failures informing future decisions.
Impact of Iraq Invasion on International Politics and Economy: The Iraq invasion in 2003 had significant implications for international politics and the global economy, leading to the end of Saddam Hussein's regime, securing oil fields, and shifting the Arab world's center towards the Gulf, but the establishment of a functioning democracy and improvement of Iraqi citizens' lives remain unmet objectives.
The decision made by Britain and the United States regarding the invasion of Iraq in 2003 had significant implications for international politics and the global economy. According to Tony Blair's speech at the time, the outcome would shape the UN, Europe-US relations, the EU, and the US' engagement with the rest of the world. The invasion had eight objectives, including ending Saddam Hussein's regime, eliminating weapons of mass destruction, and securing Iraq's oil fields. While some objectives, like ending Saddam's regime and securing oil, were achieved, others, like establishing a functioning democracy and improving the lives of Iraqi citizens, have not been met. The invasion also led to the shift of the Arab world's center towards the Gulf, with countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the UAE becoming more influential. It's important to note that assessments of the invasion's impact are subjective, with some arguing that it led to positive economic developments, while others point to ongoing security concerns and the lack of progress in establishing a stable democracy in Iraq.
The Iraq War and its impact on international relations: The Iraq War without UN sanction in 2003 led to a breach of international law, erosion of UN legitimacy, strained US-Europe relations, EU fracture, and rise of anti-establishment sentiment, resulting in isolationism and challenges to US global leadership.
The decision to invade Iraq without UN sanction in 2003 had significant negative consequences for international relations and the development of the United Nations. This action was seen as a breach of international law and the beginning of the erosion of the UN's legitimacy. The strained relationship between Europe and the United States following the invasion, coupled with the fracture within the European Union, created a narrative that fed into the anti-establishment sentiment that eventually led to the rise of Donald Trump and his America First policy. This period marked a shift towards isolationism and a challenge to the traditional role of the United States as a global leader. The aftermath of the Iraq War also impacted the decisions in Syria and Ukraine, further shaping the international political landscape for the next generation.
Campbell admits to shaping narrative during Iraq War: Campbell, as Blair's communications director, prioritized messaging and politics over independent analysis during Iraq War, but insists Blair was driven by conviction, and Campbell acted as a lightning conductor for criticism.
Alastair Campbell, former British Prime Minister Tony Blair's communications director, acknowledges that during the lead-up to the Iraq War, he was more focused on messaging and politics rather than providing independent analysis. He admits that he saw it as part of his job to help shape the narrative and influence Tony Blair's decisions. However, he also emphasizes that Tony Blair was genuinely driven by conviction during that time, and Campbell took on the role of a lightning conductor, absorbing criticism on behalf of the cabinet. Campbell admits that he has changed over the years, becoming more nuanced and prudent, and acknowledges that he would likely have been more cautious about the Iraq War if he were in the same position today. Despite this, he continues to be a central figure in debates about the war and receives significant criticism.
Impact of Iraq War on Gordon Brown's Relationships: The Iraq War created a rift between Gordon Brown and the Labour Party due to his opposition, but their podcast has received positive feedback from the public
The Iraq War had a profound impact on Gordon Brown's relationship with Tony Blair and the Labour Party. Brown expressed his concerns to Blair about the potential damage the war could cause to his political legacy, especially after their party's successful elections in 1997, 1998, and 2001. The anti-war sentiment was widespread, with many in the media, Labour Party, and even Brown's friends opposing the war. This created a significant rift between Brown and those in the Labour Party, although he maintained close relationships with his inner circle. Despite the controversy surrounding the war, the public's reaction to their podcast has been mostly positive, with many focusing on the broader political context rather than the Iraq War alone. However, Brown still occasionally encounters negative reactions when speaking publicly.
The Death of David Kelly: A Turning Point: The death of British weapons expert David Kelly, who criticized war intelligence, led to deep impact and sense of responsibility for a speaker involved in the documents he criticized, but ultimately, he chose to stay and face the inquiry.
The death of David Kelly, a British weapons expert, in 2003 was a significant event related to the controversy surrounding the intelligence used to justify the Iraq War. Kelly was uncomfortable with the way intelligence was being presented and had criticized it, but was later found to have not made some of the controversial statements attributed to him by a BBC journalist. The stress and tensions around this situation, as well as the difficult choices he felt he had to make, may have contributed to his decision to take his own life. The discussion brought back memories for the speaker, who had been closely involved with the documents Kelly was implicitly criticizing, and left a deep impact on him. The speaker felt a sense of responsibility and believed that Kelly should not have felt compelled to take his own life due to the actions of the journalist. The event was a turning point for the speaker and marked the end of the road for him, but he ultimately chose to stay and face the inquiry.
The Complexities of the Iraq War and Its Aftermath: Despite regrets, Alastair Campbell acknowledges the complexities and ongoing debates surrounding the Iraq War and its aftermath, recognizing the nuances and potential consequences of the decision to go to war.
Key takeaway from this discussion between Alastair Campbell and Phil Francis is the complex nature of the Iraq War and its aftermath. Campbell, who was a key advisor to former British Prime Minister Tony Blair during the war, expressed that while he still supports the decision to go to war at the time, he acknowledges the controversies and problems that followed. He also mentioned that he continues to discuss the issue with Blair and recognizes the nuances and complexities involved. Despite the wish that the war had never happened, Campbell believes that there were forces at play that might have caused harm elsewhere if not in Iraq. The conversation underscores the complexity of the Iraq War and the ongoing debates and reflections surrounding it.
