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    #1175 - Chris Kresser & Dr. Joel Kahn

    en-usSeptember 27, 2018

    Podcast Summary

    • Considering Individual Differences in DietWhile some may thrive on a vegan diet, others may require a different approach. Individual differences and requirements should be considered when choosing a diet.

      There is no one-size-fits-all diet for everyone. Dr. Joel Kahn, a vegan cardiologist, and Chris Kresser, a functional medicine practitioner, shared their personal experiences and backgrounds in nutrition and health. While Dr. Kahn has been a vegan for over 42 years and has opened plant-based restaurants and written books, Chris was once a macrobiotic vegan but found that a vegetarian or vegan diet didn't work best for him. They emphasized the importance of considering individual differences and requirements when it comes to diet. Both agreed that there are common themes in healthy eating, but the optimal diet can vary from person to person.

    • Functional medicine vs. one-size-fits-all dietsFunctional medicine focuses on individual needs, while one-size-fits-all diets can overlook quality and context of food consumption, leading to misleading labels and potential health issues.

      Functional medicine, which focuses on identifying and addressing the root causes of health issues, is a rare yet essential approach to healthcare. However, the precision of language and understanding of individual dietary needs are crucial. The issue with nutritional research and epidemiology is that they often make assumptions about one-size-fits-all diets, neglecting the quality and context of food consumption. For instance, two diets with the same percentage of fat can have vastly different health impacts depending on the source of those fats. Similarly, the term "low-carb" diet can be misleading if it doesn't specify whether refined or complex carbs are being consumed. Epidemiology studies play a role in testing hypotheses, but they are not the whole solution. Basic science research, such as studies in petri dishes or animal models, should be followed by epidemiology studies to test hypotheses on a larger scale. Precise language and understanding of individual dietary needs are essential for effective healthcare and improving overall health.

    • Limitations of Epidemiology and Observational StudiesDespite their value, epidemiology and observational studies have limitations, including potential inaccuracies from self-reported data, healthy user bias, and ethical considerations for randomized clinical trials. A combination of methods can help make reasonable conclusions, but it's important to critically evaluate the data and research process.

      While epidemiology and observational studies can provide valuable insights into associations between various factors and health outcomes, they are not infallible. Epidemiology involves studying groups of people and drawing inferences based on their behavior, often using self-reported data which can be inaccurate. For instance, data collection in nutritional observational studies relies on questionnaires, which are subjective and rely on memory, leading to potential inaccuracies. Moreover, healthy user bias can skew results, as people who engage in healthier behaviors may be more likely to report them accurately. The speaker also mentioned that randomized clinical trials, considered the gold standard in research, are not always feasible or ethical for certain questions, such as the long-term effects of smoking. Instead, a combination of basic epidemiology, randomized studies, and centenarian studies can help make reasonable conclusions. However, it's important to acknowledge that there are limitations to these methods and that we may be wrong sometimes. The speaker also emphasized the importance of critically evaluating the data and the research process.

    • Observational studies have limitations in proving causation in nutrition researchObservational studies, which make up most nutrition research, have limitations in definitively proving cause-and-effect relationships due to confounding factors and small relative risks. Complementing them with other research methods is necessary for a more comprehensive understanding of nutrition and health.

      Observational studies, which make up about 80% of nutrition knowledge, have significant limitations. These studies cannot definitively prove that a particular food or behavior is causing a health outcome due to confounding factors and the relatively low relative risks in nutrition. For instance, studies linking red meat to cancer often show only small increases in risk, which are indistinguishable from chance. Furthermore, the media often sensationalizes these findings, leading to a clickbait culture that misrepresents the research. While observational studies are valuable, they should be complemented with other research methods such as randomized clinical trials and studies of healthy centenarians to gain a more comprehensive understanding of nutrition and health.

    • Epidemiology studies have limitations and biasesUnderstand that epidemiology studies have limitations and biases, and approach health information critically

      Epidemiology studies, which often involve filling out food frequency questionnaires once and then reporting health outcomes years later, can be subject to various biases and limitations. For example, people may change their diets after filling out the questionnaire, or they may be healthier to begin with due to other lifestyle choices. Additionally, some nutritional studies, such as those showing increased cancer risk with animal protein consumption, are observational in nature and do not account for all potential confounding factors. It's important to consider the strengths and weaknesses of different types of nutritional research and to approach health and wellness information with a critical and informed perspective.

    • Studies on Vegetarianism and LongevityObservational studies on vegetarianism and longevity have found no significant difference, but the WHO warns against excessive processed meat consumption due to its link to colon cancer.

      Numerous observational studies have been conducted to investigate the connection between vegetarianism and longevity. However, many of these studies have been criticized for their methodology, such as the healthy user bias in the Seventh-day Adventist studies in the Netherlands. More recent studies, like the Health Food Shopper study, the Oxford vegetarian study, the Epic Oxford cohort study, and the Heidelberg study, have attempted to compare vegetarians with more health-conscious omnivores. Despite their efforts to mitigate potential pitfalls, all these studies found no significant difference in lifespan between vegetarians and omnivores. A recent large-scale study in Australia, the 45 and Up study, also reported no difference in mortality risk between the two groups. Two meta-analyses of all relevant studies have confirmed these findings. While these observational studies are not definitive proof, they do suggest that there is no clear advantage in lifespan for vegetarians over omnivores. However, it's important to note that the World Health Organization has classified processed meat as a carcinogen, with an 18% increased risk of colon cancer. This association is strong enough to warrant caution against excessive consumption of processed meat.

    • Understanding Health Food Studies and Their BiasesDespite potential biases, modern epidemiology uses advanced methods to isolate diet's impact on health. USDA guidelines have evolved, and total mortality is a crucial factor. Context matters, as quality food can offset harmful effects.

      While there may be biases in health food studies, it's important not to dismiss them entirely. Modern epidemiology uses multivariate analysis to isolate the effects of various factors, such as diet, lifestyle, and genetics. The USDA's dietary guidelines have changed over the years, and the focus on limiting cholesterol is no longer a concern. However, it's essential to consider total mortality when evaluating the health effects of different foods. For instance, while processed meat may increase the risk of cancer, the lack of evidence showing a lifespan advantage for vegetarians or vegans suggests that the impact may not be significant. Context is also crucial, as the quality of food matters more than the quantity. For example, eating chlorophyll-rich vegetables with processed meat can help prevent the formation of harmful compounds. Similarly, dietary antioxidants can reduce the risk of gastric cancer associated with heme iron intake. Overall, a balanced and varied diet is essential for maintaining good health.

    • The impact of heme iron intake on heart health is significant in American studies due to high meat consumption.Consuming vegetables with meat and marinating meat before grilling can help reduce harmful AGEs. Vegetables are crucial for counteracting negative dietary effects, and reducing processed foods and increasing vegetable intake are key for heart health.

      The association between heme iron intake and health issues, specifically heart disease, is more significant in American studies due to the high consumption of processed meat in the standard American diet. The study author emphasized that meat consumed with vegetables or chlorophyll is safer than meat consumed alone. Grilling meat can lead to the formation of harmful chemicals called Advanced Glycation End Products (AGEs), but marinating meat in dark beer before grilling can help reduce the formation of these toxic chemicals. The importance of consuming vegetables, even if you're not giving up meat entirely, cannot be overstated as it can help counteract the negative effects of a poor diet. The debate around cholesterol and saturated fat in the development of heart disease dates back to the 1940s when heart attacks became more common due to lifestyle changes and the identification of risk factors. While diet was not initially considered a factor in heart disease, it has since been recognized as a significant contributor, and reducing processed foods and increasing vegetable consumption are key steps towards prevention.

    • Limit intake of saturated fat for heart healthMajor health organizations recommend limiting saturated fat intake due to its link to heart disease. Foods rich in saturated fat decrease liver receptors for cholesterol, potentially clogging arteries.

      The consensus among major health organizations, including the World Health Organization, American Heart Association, and American College of Cardiology, is to limit the intake of saturated fat due to its link to heart disease. This recommendation is based on a large body of evidence, including basic science, epidemiological studies, and controlled trials. When we eat foods rich in saturated fat, such as meat, cheese, and eggs, receptors on the liver for cholesterol decrease, causing cholesterol to remain in the blood and potentially clog arteries. While it's true that all foods contain a mix of different types of fats, the focus on limiting saturated fat is not an arbitrary decision. For example, populations with the highest longevity, like those in Italy and Greece, consume very little saturated fat and a lot of olive oil. Contrary to this, some foods that are advised for their health benefits, like oily fish, contain significant amounts of saturated fat. The evidence supporting the limitations on saturated fat and cholesterol has been under scrutiny in recent years, with some studies suggesting that the connection may not be as clear-cut as previously thought. However, the consensus among major health organizations remains unchanged.

    • The history of nutritional science is marked by inconsistent findings and evolving guidelinesDespite ongoing debate, nutrition's role in preventing health issues is clear, but the specific recommendations continue to evolve based on new research.

      The history of nutritional science is marked by many scientists being wrong about various food-related health issues, and guidelines often change as new research emerges. For instance, the US federal government removed restrictions on total fat and dietary cholesterol in 2010 and 2015, respectively, acknowledging that not all fats and cholesterol are harmful. Renowned epidemiologist Johnny Anidis has criticized nutritional research, stating that the field needs reform due to inconsistent findings. The scientific consensus on saturated fat and cholesterol has evolved, with recent meta-analyses not showing a clear relationship between saturated fat and heart disease or any benefits from replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fats. Despite these findings, organizations still recommend reducing saturated fat and cholesterol intake. The importance of nutrition in preventing health issues like heart attacks and strokes is undeniable, but the reasons for these recommendations remain a topic of ongoing debate.

    • Studies challenge the link between saturated fat and heart diseaseNewer research contradicts old beliefs, showing saturated fat may not increase heart disease risk and could even have benefits

      Contrary to popular belief, studies suggest that butter and other sources of dietary saturated fat, such as eggs and cheese, may not be as harmful for heart health as once thought. Older epidemiological studies from the 1940s and 1950s that linked saturated fat to heart disease have been challenged by more recent research, including controlled feeding studies and meta-analyses of randomized controlled trials. These studies have found that increasing dietary saturated fat does not necessarily lead to increased levels of saturated fat in the blood, and that low-carb diets high in saturated fat have been associated with weight loss, improvements in cardiovascular risk factors, and even superior glycemic control for people with diabetes. Therefore, it's important to consider the latest scientific evidence when evaluating the role of saturated fat in our diets and heart health.

    • Dairy industry's attempts to influence public opinion on saturated fatThe dairy industry funded research to dispute the link between saturated fat and heart disease, leading to controversial studies and criticism for flawed methodology. Despite this, the scientific consensus on the health risks of saturated fat remains strong.

      The dairy industry's response to declining sales in the late 2000s involved funding research and publications to influence public opinion. This led to several controversial studies, such as one by Ronald C. Kelly at the University of California, Berkeley, which could not find a link between saturated fat and heart disease. However, this study was heavily criticized for its methodology and was eventually retracted. The industry's efforts to sow confusion around the health effects of saturated fat have been compared to the tobacco industry's tactics. Despite the industry's attempts, the scientific consensus that saturated fat increases the risk of heart disease remains strong, based on numerous well-designed studies conducted over several decades. The importance of replicating observational studies with rigorous randomized controlled trials cannot be overstated in the field of nutrition research.

    • Observational data vs. scientific studiesValidating observational findings through rigorous scientific studies, like randomized controlled trials, is crucial to avoid misleading conclusions.

      While observational data can provide valuable insights, it's essential to validate these findings through rigorous scientific studies, such as randomized controlled trials. For instance, the link between beta-carotene and reduced risk of death, initially observed in observational studies, was later debunked by trials giving people beta-carotene supplements, which even increased the risk of cancer. On the other hand, the understanding of the impact of low-carb diets on health has evolved significantly over the years. Numerous randomized controlled trials have shown that low-carb diets lead to greater improvements in glycemic control for patients with type 2 diabetes compared to low-fat diets. The importance of this ongoing scientific exploration is evident as our food sources and scientific understanding continue to change. Despite the advancements, major medical societies still advocate for reducing saturated fat intake based on the findings from earlier epidemiology studies. The ongoing debate highlights the importance of continually questioning and updating our knowledge based on new evidence.

    • New research challenges old beliefs about cholesterol and saturated fatNew studies using advanced methods and larger datasets challenge previous beliefs that low LDL cholesterol and saturated fat intake increase heart disease risk

      The understanding of nutrition and its impact on health, particularly regarding cholesterol levels and dietary components like saturated fat, has evolved significantly over the years. Old studies and guidelines have been challenged by new research using advanced methods and larger datasets. For instance, a 2012 study using Mendelian randomization showed that having a genetically low LDL cholesterol level is associated with a lower risk of cardiovascular diseases and longer survival. However, this finding contradicts the long-held belief that low LDL is not beneficial. When it comes to HDL, the "good" cholesterol, the association with heart health is no longer clear. Regarding the debate on saturated fat and its role in heart disease, many recent studies, including randomized controlled trials and meta-analyses, have not found a significant correlation between saturated fat intake and increased risk of heart disease or mortality from any cause. These findings contrast with earlier studies and guidelines, which warned against consuming saturated fat due to its supposed link to heart disease. It's essential to acknowledge the advancements in research methods and the importance of considering the context and limitations of various studies when evaluating their findings. The ongoing evolution of scientific knowledge highlights the need for an open-minded approach to understanding the complex relationship between nutrition and health.

    • The debate over saturated fat and heart disease riskNewer studies show no increase in cholesterol or insulin levels with saturated fat consumption, but older studies suggest a link to heart disease through LDL receptors and plaque formation

      The debate surrounding the relationship between saturated fat consumption and heart disease risk continues, with some arguing that older studies are outdated and not as rigorous, while others maintain that they provide valuable insights. Newer studies, such as randomized controlled trials and meta-analyses, have shown no increase in cholesterol or insulin levels with saturated fat consumption and even a decrease. However, it's important to note that some individuals may still experience an increase in cholesterol. The Cochrane database, an independent group of scientists, has concluded that saturated fat intake increases the risk of heart disease. This is believed to occur due to a decrease in LDL receptors in the liver, leading to an increase in LDL in the blood and eventual plaque formation in the arteries. Older epidemiological studies may have used cholesterol as a proxy marker rather than looking directly at heart attack and stroke risk. Despite this, some argue that these studies are still relevant and should not be ignored. Ultimately, the scientific method, which includes a broad range of research methods, is crucial in understanding the complex relationship between diet and heart disease risk.

    • Low-carb diets don't increase heart risk and improve diabetes managementLow-carb diets, regardless of saturated fat content, may not increase heart risk and effectively manage diabetes. Individualized nutrition plans are key for optimal health.

      Several meta-analyses of randomized controlled trials suggest that low-carb diets, which are often high in saturated fat, do not increase cardiovascular risk markers and may even improve them. Additionally, these diets have been shown to effectively manage diabetes by improving various markers such as blood sugar, insulin, weight, and visceral fat. These findings are based on high-quality evidence and should be considered in diabetes management plans. However, it's important to note that not all diets labeled as "low-carb" are the same, and some may be high in saturated fat while others may be plant-based. The ongoing debate about the role of saturated fat in heart health should not overshadow the importance of making healthier food choices overall, such as reducing processed and calorie-rich foods. Ultimately, individualized nutrition plans are essential for optimal health outcomes.

    • Saturated Fat and Heart Disease: The Weight of the EvidenceDespite past beliefs, current scientific evidence does not clearly support the idea that eating saturated fat increases heart disease or death risk. Moderate consumption of saturated fat from animal sources is not harmful.

      The current scientific evidence does not clearly support the idea that eating saturated fat increases the risk of heart disease or death. Several large-scale studies, including meta-analyses of both randomized controlled trials and observational studies, have found no relationship between saturated fat intake and cardiovascular disease. The 1950s and 1960s studies often cited as evidence against saturated fat are not relevant to the current understanding of the issue. While reducing saturated fat may lower cholesterol levels, the importance of this is not clear. The scientific method involves looking at the weight of evidence and continuing to evaluate it over time. It's important to be wary of relying too heavily on past research findings, as they may simply reflect the prevailing bias of the time. The most up-to-date analysis of randomized clinical studies suggests that saturated fat does not raise cholesterol levels as significantly as once thought, and that moderate consumption of saturated fat from animal sources is not associated with an increased risk of heart disease or death.

    • Comparing Finland and Crete's heart health in the 1970sDespite similar fat percentages, Finland had higher heart attack rates due to different types of fat - Finland had high saturated fat from animal products, while Crete had lower saturated fat and more olive oil. Considering the entirety of the data from various sources is crucial to understanding diet-health relationships.

      When comparing the heart health of Finland and Crete in the 1970s, despite both having similar percentages of calories coming from fat, Finland had much higher heart attack rates. However, it's important to note that the types of fat consumed were different - Finland had high amounts of saturated fat from animal products, while Crete had lower amounts of saturated fat and more olive oil. While some argue that Finland's high saturated fat intake caused their heart issues, others point out that there are numerous other factors at play, such as lifestyle and genetics. Epidemiological studies can provide useful insights, but they don't tell the whole story. To truly understand the relationship between diet and health, it's essential to consider the entirety of the data from various sources, including biochemistry and randomized controlled trials. For example, populations that live to 100 often have diets low in animal and saturated fat. However, it's crucial to remember that other factors, such as healthy lifestyle choices, can also significantly impact lifespan. Ultimately, it's important to approach nutritional research with a critical and nuanced perspective.

    • Understanding observational studies' limitationsWhile observational studies have limitations, they should be used in conjunction with other research designs for a more comprehensive understanding of the relationship between lifestyle factors and health outcomes.

      While observational studies can provide valuable insights into the relationship between various lifestyle factors and health outcomes, they have limitations and it's essential to be cautious when interpreting their results. For instance, it's challenging to isolate the influence of single variables like saturated fat and cholesterol on mortality risk due to the complex interplay of multiple factors. However, this doesn't mean we should disregard observational research entirely. Instead, we should use it in conjunction with other research designs, such as randomized clinical trials and meta-analyses, to gain a more comprehensive understanding of the topic. For example, numerous studies, including observational research, epidemiology studies, randomized clinical trials, and centenarian studies, suggest that a diet low in saturated fat can help reduce the risk of chronic diseases and improve overall health. This body of evidence supports the recommendation to incorporate more plant-based foods into our diets to enhance our health and longevity.

    • Controversy over international health organizations' recommendations on saturated fatDespite ongoing controversy, international health organizations' guidelines on saturated fat may not reflect the most recent scientific evidence due to potential conflicts of interest with food industry funding.

      The recommendations from international health organizations regarding the consumption of saturated fat have been a subject of controversy, with some suggesting that these organizations may have been behind the times. The 2015 report did not utilize the most up-to-date scientific evidence, and there have been several reviews since then that challenge the idea that saturated fat increases cardiovascular risk markers. However, it's important to note that these organizations receive significant funding from big food companies, which could potentially influence their guidelines. While it may not be a conspiracy, there is a problem with the potential conflicts of interest. The advancement of science is constant, and it's likely that the guidelines on saturated fat will change in the future. It's crucial to stay informed and question the sources of information we receive.

    • Debating dietary guidelines and conflicts of interestIt's crucial to distinguish between scientific misconduct and legitimate scientific disagreements when evaluating dietary guidelines. Current, credible scientific evidence should guide recommendations, and recognizing potential funding influences is important.

      The debate surrounding dietary guidelines and potential conflicts of interest raises valid concerns. However, it's essential to distinguish between instances of scientific misconduct and legitimate scientific disagreements. The USDA guidelines do recommend limiting saturated fat to 35% or less of total calories, and there have been changes in dietary recommendations based on new scientific evidence. While some studies on saturated fat have been criticized, others, such as those on vegetarian diets and processed meat, have withstood scrutiny. The key is to rely on current, credible scientific evidence when making dietary recommendations. It's also important to recognize that funding sources can influence research, but this is not unique to any particular sector. Ultimately, the goal should be to promote evidence-based policies that support public health.

    • The role of saturated fat in heart health is still debatedDespite ongoing debate, focus on quality over quantity and consider individual differences in fat intake for heart health. More research is needed to provide a definitive answer.

      There seems to be ongoing debate regarding the role of saturated fat in heart health, with some sources suggesting it's not an issue at all, while others consider it a major concern. The USDA guidelines on fat intake have been a point of contention, with some believing a change was made in 2010 to allow for up to 35% of calories from fat. However, others argue this is a misunderstanding, and the guidelines still recommend a limit on fat intake. The evidence from meta-analyses of randomized controlled trials and large observational studies is still being debated, with no clear consensus reached yet. As promoters of healthy lifestyles, it's important to consider individual differences and focus on quality over quantity, while also considering the potential benefits of eating less and taking breaks from eating to activate anti-aging pathways. Ultimately, the real question is which scientific consensus is more accurate, and more research is needed to provide a definitive answer.

    • Saturated fat's complex relationship with heart disease riskWhile some individuals may face heart risks from saturated fat, population studies don't show an average increase in heart disease or death.

      The relationship between saturated fat and heart disease risk is complex and varies from person to person. While some individuals may experience an increase in cholesterol or LDL particle number from consuming saturated fat, population-level research does not support the idea that saturated fat increases the risk of heart disease or death on average. However, the sources of saturated fat in the American diet are primarily from junk foods, and consuming saturated fat in conjunction with refined sugars can increase the harmful effects. The mechanism behind this is that insulin, produced in response to refined carbohydrates, inhibits the oxidation of saturated fat and promotes the synthesis of saturated fat in the liver. Therefore, it's essential to consider individual genetic and dietary factors when evaluating the potential health effects of saturated fat consumption.

    • Diets high in saturated fat, sugar, and methionine-rich meat can accelerate agingConsuming a plant-based protein diet may lead to better health outcomes, including longer survival, reduced cancer risk, and heart disease risk.

      Consuming a diet high in saturated fat and sugar, found in pastries and sugary drinks, can activate the M-Tor and IGF-1 pathways in PK-RAS, which are known to accelerate the aging process. Meat, specifically meat rich in methionine, can also activate these pathways due to the specific amino acid mix it contains. Several large observational studies have shown that plant-based protein, which has a different amino acid mix, leads to better outcomes in terms of survival, cancer risk, and heart disease risk compared to animal protein. These findings were not based on a single study but on multiple reviews of various studies. It's important to note that these studies do not account for other risk factors such as smoking, sedentary lifestyle, and obesity. However, the consistent findings across multiple studies suggest that a diet rich in plant-based protein may contribute to a longer, healthier life.

    • Red meat and colorectal cancer: The relationship is complexWhile some studies suggest a link between red meat consumption and colorectal cancer, the relationship is not clear-cut. Processed meat has a stronger association, but the dose-response relationship and individual responses are unclear. Considering total mortality and real-world outcomes is crucial.

      While there is some evidence linking red meat consumption to an increased risk of colorectal cancer, the relationship is not clear-cut. A 2011 meta-analysis of 34 studies did not find a significant association between red meat intake and colorectal cancer, but did find a relationship with processed meat. However, the dose-response relationship is unclear, as some studies have found that people who eat the most red meat have a lower risk of cancer. Additionally, the relative risk is only 18% for processed meat and possibly nothing for fresh red meat. It's important to consider other factors, such as healthy user bias and individual responses to different foods. Ultimately, total mortality and deaths from specific conditions are the most important endpoints when evaluating the health effects of red meat. Basic science can provide valuable insights, but it's essential to consider real-world outcomes as well. The progression of scientific research typically begins with basic science, followed by epidemiologic studies, and then randomized clinical trials. For example, the discovery of the LDL receptor in the 1970s led to the development of statins, which have been shown to reduce mortality in people with heart disease.

    • Saturated fat's impact on cholesterol levels is complexLarge-scale studies suggest that on average, saturated fat intake doesn't significantly impact cholesterol levels. The relationship between cholesterol and heart disease is also more complex than once believed.

      The relationship between saturated fat and cholesterol levels in the blood is not as straightforward as once believed. While it is true that saturated fat can raise cholesterol levels for some individuals, the evidence from large-scale studies suggests that on average, this relationship is not significant. Furthermore, the assumption that high cholesterol levels directly lead to heart disease has been challenged, as studies have shown that the relationship between saturated fat intake and heart disease is not clear-cut. It seems that cholesterol is just one factor among many contributing to heart disease. Therefore, it is essential to focus on the studies that examine the relationship between saturated fat intake and heart disease directly rather than assuming that high cholesterol levels are the primary cause of heart disease. Ultimately, the conversation between experts with opposing views is crucial to gaining a more nuanced understanding of complex health issues like the role of saturated fat in heart disease.

    • The complex relationship between dietary cholesterol and saturated fatWhile some studies link cholesterol and saturated fat to heart disease, other research shows no significant impact. It's essential to consider large-scale studies and current understanding when making dietary choices.

      The relationship between dietary cholesterol and saturated fat intake and their impact on blood cholesterol levels and cardiovascular disease is a complex issue with ongoing debate. While some studies suggest that eating eggs or other dietary sources of cholesterol can raise blood cholesterol levels, other studies show that this effect is not significant in a large percentage of people. Additionally, some studies have found no relationship between saturated fat intake and cardiovascular disease. It is important to consider the weight of the evidence from large reviews of observational studies and meta-analyses of randomized controlled trials when evaluating the role of dietary cholesterol and saturated fat in health. Older studies and equations, such as the Hegstead equation, should be viewed with caution as they may be outdated and not reflect current understanding. Ultimately, understanding the underlying biochemistry of how diet affects cholesterol levels and cardiovascular health is crucial for making informed decisions about dietary choices for better health.

    • The complex relationship between dietary saturated fat, cholesterol, and heart healthWhile some studies link saturated fat and cholesterol to heart disease, others challenge these findings. New research and treatments offer a more nuanced understanding.

      The relationship between dietary saturated fat, cholesterol, and heart health is a complex issue that continues to be studied and debated in the scientific community. While some studies suggest that saturated fat and cholesterol consumption can raise blood cholesterol levels and increase the risk of heart disease, other research, such as the 2018 review on eggs and cholesterol, suggests that these foods may not have the negative effects once thought. Additionally, advancements in our understanding of human physiology, such as the discovery of the protein PCSK9 and the development of drugs that target it, have led to new treatments for high cholesterol and heart disease. Ultimately, it's important to consider the broader context of scientific research, including the biochemistry, epidemiology, and clinical trials, when evaluating the evidence on this topic.

    • The compound TMAO, produced by red meat, egg yolks, and certain fish, negatively impacts heart healthConsuming red meat, egg yolks, and some fish increases TMAO levels, which can stun HDL, prevent cholesterol reversal, and cause LDL to create plaque. High TMAO levels are linked to heart failure, diabetes, heart disease, and hypertension. Fish, particularly those high in mercury and PCBs, may increase TMAO production more than red meat.

      A compound called TMAO, which is produced when certain foods like red meat, egg yolks, and some types of fish are consumed, can negatively impact heart health. TMAO stuns HDL, preventing it from reversing cholesterol transport, and causes LDL to enter the cell wall and create plaque. High TMAO levels are linked to heart failure, diabetes, heart disease, and hypertension. Interestingly, while red meat is a well-known contributor to TMAO production, fish, particularly those high in mercury and PCBs, may increase TMAO levels even more. Despite this, fish consumption is generally recommended for its heart health benefits due to other nutrients it provides. The relationship between red meat consumption and heart disease and mortality is still a subject of debate. Some studies suggest that saturated fat and cholesterol from red meat do not increase heart disease risk, while others point to potential mechanisms like TMAO. The gut microbiome also plays a role in TMAO production, and a disrupted microbiome due to ultra-processed food consumption may exacerbate the association between red meat and TMAO levels. Ultimately, more research is needed to fully understand the complex relationship between diet, TMAO, and heart health.

    • TMAO and Diet: Understanding the ConnectionMaintain a healthy gut biome and limit egg yolk and meat to reduce TMAO production, which may contribute to heart disease.

      TMAO (Trimethylamine N-oxide) is a topic of ongoing research related to diet and human physiology, specifically concerning egg yolk and meat consumption. While there are pharmacologic agents being developed to block it, the focus should be on maintaining a healthy gut biome and diet. The Cleveland Clinic study showed that two people can eat the same food, but their microbiomes will produce different amounts of TMAO. Fish consumption, which is often considered healthy, significantly contributes to TMAO production. However, fish consumption is not correlated with heart disease but rather with healthier hearts. Therefore, the recommendation is to eat fish but limit egg yolk and meat, as their consumption correlates with increased TMAO production and atherosclerosis. The full implications of TMAO and its relationship to heart disease are not yet fully understood, and further research is needed to understand the correlation between fish flesh containing preformed TMAO and heart disease risk.

    • TMAO and Health Risks from Red Meat and Egg YolksRed meat and egg yolks increase TMAO levels in the blood, linked to atherosclerosis and other health issues. Lowering overall TMAO levels is recommended for cardiovascular health.

      TMAO, a compound produced in the body after consuming certain foods like red meat and egg yolks, has been linked to increased risk of atherosclerosis and other health issues. The levels of TMAO in the blood are significantly higher when consuming red meat and egg yolks compared to fish. While fish contains TMAO, its health effects are not yet fully understood and may be offset by the benefits of Omega-3 fatty acids. However, the science suggests that high levels of TMAO in the blood are not good, and steps can be taken to lower it. The debate around the health effects of TMAO from different food sources is ongoing, but the consensus is that reducing overall TMAO levels is a desirable goal for promoting cardiovascular health.

    • Fish and Diabetes: The Complex RelationshipWhile fish provides important nutrients, its relationship with diabetes risk is unclear due to conflicting studies, potential negative effects of TMAO and saturated fat, and the importance of considering multiple factors in diet and health.

      While fish contains animal protein, the relationship between fish consumption and the risk of type 2 diabetes is not fully understood. Some studies suggest that total fish intake may be positively associated with the risk, but the reasons for this are not clear. TMAO, a compound produced from choline and carnitine found in animal protein, has been suggested as a possible explanation, but more research is needed. The saturated fat content and aging effects of animal protein are other potential concerns. However, fish is also a source of important nutrients like omega-3 fatty acids, selenium, and vitamins B12 and B6. Overall, the evidence is not strong enough to say that fish causes diabetes, but it also doesn't definitively prove that it lowers the risk. The complex relationship between diet and health highlights the importance of considering multiple factors and not relying too heavily on any one mechanism or study.

    • New discoveries in nutrition research impact public health recommendationsOngoing research uncovers new associations between nutrients, foods, and health outcomes, which can lead to updated public health recommendations.

      While we may not have all the pieces to the puzzle when it comes to understanding the complex relationship between various nutrients, foods, and health outcomes, we do have enough knowledge to make recommendations. The scientific community, represented by organizations like the True Health Initiative, continues to make progress in understanding mechanisms and making evidence-based recommendations. A recent discovery out of the University of Virginia highlights the importance of keeping an open mind and considering new associations, even if they are relatively new or not yet fully understood. The discovery of an association between a tick-borne antibody to alpha-gal and heart disease in Virginia residents is a prime example. While the mechanism behind this association is not yet fully understood, it highlights the importance of ongoing research and the potential for new discoveries to impact public health recommendations.

    • Correlation vs Causation in Nutritional StudiesWhile some dietary factors may be linked to health outcomes, correlation does not imply causation. Focus on 'eating real food, not too much, and mostly plants' for a solid foundation of nutrition.

      While there are numerous studies suggesting correlations between various dietary factors and health outcomes, it's crucial to remember that correlation does not imply causation. The example given was a study linking astrological signs to hospital diagnoses, which showed similar risk increases as those observed for processed meat and cancer. However, the availability and quality of data in nutritional studies can be a concern, as confounding factors such as social and behavioral influences, gut microbiome, and other variables are often not accounted for. Despite the complexity of the issue, simple advice such as "eat real food, don't eat too much, and eat mostly plants" can be effective starting points for improving overall health. As research continues to evolve, more refined recommendations may emerge, but the foundation of a nutritious diet remains consistent with decades of research.

    • A Balanced Diet Includes Both Plant and Animal FoodsStrive for a balanced plate with both plant and animal foods for optimal nutrient intake, as animal foods offer nutrient-dense essential nutrients like B12, while plant foods provide carotenoids, polyphenols, and fiber. Vegetarians and vegans may need supplementation or fortified foods for B12.

      While both plant-based and animal-based foods have their unique nutrient offerings, a balanced diet that includes both can provide the most comprehensive range of essential nutrients. Animal foods, such as meat, dairy, and eggs, are more nutrient-dense in certain essential nutrients like B12, bioavailable zinc, iron, calcium, choline, taurine, creatine, and are better absorbed by the body. On the other hand, plant foods are rich in carotenoids, polyphenols, flavonoids, and fiber. However, it's important to note that some nutrients, like B12, are not readily available in plant-based foods, and deficiencies can occur. Studies show that vegetarians and vegans have higher rates of B12 deficiency compared to omnivores, emphasizing the importance of supplementation or consuming fortified foods. The takeaway is not that one should completely eliminate animal products from their diet, but rather strive for a balanced plate that includes both plant and animal foods to optimize nutrient intake.

    • Awareness for Vegetarians and Vegans: Vitamin B12 DeficiencyVegetarians and vegans need to be aware of potential Vitamin B12 deficiency, take supplements, and rely on accurate markers for deficiency to maintain optimal health.

      While a plant-based lifestyle can be healthy, it's crucial for vegetarians and vegans to be aware of potential nutrient deficiencies, specifically Vitamin B12. B12 is essential for brain and mental health, and deficiency can lead to irreversible effects. While some foods like nori and nutritional yeast are fortified with B12, it's recommended that vegetarians and vegans take supplements to ensure they're getting enough. The majority of B12 is given to cattle, leaving no natural sources for these animals. Synthetic B12, such as methylcobalamin, is vegan and ethically produced in labs. However, it's important to note that serum B12 is not the most reliable marker for deficiency, and methylmalonic acid and homocysteine are more accurate indicators. Vegetarians and vegans are at higher risk for deficiency, which can lead to increased risk of cardiovascular disease, dementia, and Alzheimer's. To maintain optimal health, it's recommended to get as many nutrients from food as possible, but supplementation is necessary for certain essential nutrients like B12.

    • Understanding Nutrient Deficiencies in Plant-Based and Paleo DietsBoth plant-based and paleo diets have potential nutrient deficiencies, particularly iodine. It's crucial to consider individual nutrient needs and food choices to maintain a balanced diet.

      While both plant-based and paleo diets have their merits, it's essential to be aware of potential nutrient deficiencies, particularly iodine, when eliminating certain food groups. The vegan diet, for instance, lacks iodine sources like dairy and seafood, while the paleo diet may not provide enough iodine if one avoids iodized salt and sea vegetables. The debate around the paleo diet's potential issues, such as iodine deficiency, should not overshadow the importance of considering individual nutrient needs and food choices. The key is to educate individuals on the importance of consuming a balanced diet, regardless of the specific dietary approach they choose. Additionally, the benefits of some diets, like the carnivore diet, are still unclear and require further research.

    • Long-term implications of restrictive diets like the carnivore diet are not fully understoodWhile some find benefits in restrictive diets, long-term risks and nutrient deficiencies are a concern. Consult healthcare professionals before making significant changes.

      While some people report feeling good on restrictive diets like the carnivore diet, the long-term implications are not fully understood. Fasting and gut rest can have benefits, but a year-long water fast is extreme and not sustainable for most people. The carnivore diet may help those with gut issues, but it's low in vitamins like vitamin C, which are essential for building healthy immune systems. The absorption of vitamin C may be more efficient on a low-carb diet due to less competition with glucose. However, the potential risks and unknowns make it important to approach such diets with caution and consider the potential for nutrient deficiencies. It's crucial to remember that everyone's body responds differently to dietary changes, and what works for one person may not work for another. It's essential to consult with healthcare professionals before making significant dietary changes.

    • Considering Risks and Uncertainties of Extreme DietsWhile some extreme diets like carnivore may offer benefits, long-term safety and efficacy are uncertain, and regular health monitoring is necessary. Individual health circumstances matter, so consult professionals for guidance.

      While some people may find success on extreme diets like a carnivore diet, there are potential risks and unknowns. Atherosclerosis, a condition related to heart health, takes years to develop, and it's essential to regularly monitor key indicators like carotid and coronary health. Organ meats are an important source of nutrients, but they don't provide all essential nutrients, such as vitamin C, crotonoids, and flavonoids. The long-term safety and efficacy of an all-meat diet, especially without supplementation, are still uncertain. Fiber, once thought to be essential for health, is being reevaluated, and its source is crucial. The speaker emphasizes the importance of considering individual health circumstances and consulting healthcare professionals for guidance.

    • Diet and Microbiome: Rapid Changes and Optimal HealthThe microbiome can change rapidly in response to diet, and both plant and animal foods have unique health benefits, leading to optimal health and longevity through various dietary paths.

      While the role of fiber in digestion is a topic of ongoing debate, the consensus suggests that fiber, particularly fermentable carbohydrates, are beneficial for the microbiome. Anthropological data shows that every human population studied has consumed a combination of animal and plant foods, with variations in ratios and amounts depending on their location. A study by Steven O'Keefe at the University of Pittsburgh demonstrated significant changes in the microbiome of African-Americans in Pittsburgh and rural Africans in South Africa after just 20 days on different diets. Our microbiome can change rapidly in response to diet, and the remarkable resiliency of the human body allows for optimal health and longevity through various dietary paths. Plant-based diets have been shown to reverse conditions like atherosclerosis, prostate cancer, and shorten telomeres, while animal-based diets have their own health benefits. The term "NutriVore" has been proposed to describe a whole foods diet that includes both plant and animal foods. The evolutionary perspective can provide hypotheses for dietary choices, but it's important to test these hypotheses through research.

    • Dispute over animal protein in plant-based diets for heart disease reversalWhole food plant-based diets reverse heart disease markers, but research is unclear on animal protein's role in this process

      A plant-based diet, specifically a whole food vegan diet, has been shown to reverse markers of heart disease based on numerous studies. However, the dispute lies in the inclusion of animal protein and organ meats in a diet, as there isn't definitive research on whether or not they advance health or make it superior when added to a plant-based diet. Nutrient density is an important factor to consider, with organ meats and shellfish ranking high due to their essential nutrient content. The standard American diet, which is often criticized for its negative impact on health, can be improved by adopting a whole food plant-based diet. Yet, more research is needed to fully understand the effects of diets that include some animal foods, such as the Nutrivore or paleo diets, on heart disease reversal.

    • Transitioning to a vegan diet for health benefitsImprove health by incorporating more plant-based foods, find optimal place on dietary spectrum, focus on nutrient-dense foods, remember unique needs, and athletes can perform at peak with plant-based diets.

      There are significant health benefits to be gained from transitioning to a vegan diet, especially when focusing on whole foods, but individuals should find their optimal place on the dietary spectrum. This means that people can improve their health by incorporating more plant-based foods into their diets, even if they don't eliminate all animal products. Additionally, time-restricted eating and nutrient-dense food choices are important for overall well-being. It's essential to remember that everyone's nutritional needs and preferences are unique, and there is no one-size-fits-all approach. Furthermore, athletes can achieve peak performance with plant-based diets, as demonstrated by numerous examples of successful vegan and vegetarian athletes. Ultimately, the goal is to make informed choices and focus on nutrient-dense foods, regardless of dietary approach.

    • Discussing the importance of a whole food-based diet for optimal healthA whole food-based diet, supplemented with proper nutrients, is a healthier alternative to a standard American diet. Real food is crucial for good health, and practitioners like Chris and Joe are dedicated to helping people improve theirs.

      A standard American diet is not ideal for optimal health, and a whole food-based diet, supplemented with proper nutrients, is a healthier alternative. While there is ongoing debate about the significance of nutrient-dense foods like organ meats, shellfish, meat, fish, eggs, and their impact on health, both parties agreed that eating real food is crucial. The discussion also highlighted the important work being done by practitioners like Chris and Joe, who are dedicated to helping people improve their health. The lengthy conversation allowed for a deep exploration of the topic, providing valuable insights beyond the typical five-minute TV segment or clickbait articles. For more resources on the topic, check out Chris Crestor's website (crisscrestor.com/Rogan) and Dr. J's website (drjohnjacob.com).

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    *The contents of this podcast are intended for general informational purposes only and does not constitute professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of a physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. AMD and the speaker do not recommend or endorse any specific course of treatment, products, procedures, opinions, or other information that may be mentioned. Reliance on any information provided by this content is solely at your own risk.