Podcast Summary
Impact of Radical Compassion Policies: Radical compassion policies, such as supervised drug use sites, may have unintended consequences and worsen societal issues despite good intentions
The implementation of radical compassion policies, such as supervised drug use sites, under the guise of helping those in need, can lead to unintended consequences and a worsening of societal issues. Michael Shellenberger, a guest on The Joe Rogan Experience, discussed his book "San Francisco" and the impact of extreme progressive ideology on the city. He highlighted the example of San Francisco's supervised drug use site, where people are using drugs like fentanyl and meth under city supervision. Shellenberger argued that while the caregivers may have good intentions, they are enabling self-poisoning and failing to help people get off the drugs. He also criticized the concept of radical compassion, which he believes is a blind spot for progressives, as it can cause harm rather than alleviate it. The discussion also touched on the comparison of San Francisco to other cities, such as Los Angeles, and the impact of homelessness on civilization.
Media's Role in Journalism: Objectivity vs. Activism: The media landscape is shifting, with journalists facing pressure to prioritize activism over objective reporting, leading to a loss of trust in the industry and the importance of impartial editors.
The media landscape is changing, and with it, the role and responsibilities of journalists. The New York Times, once known for its objective journalism, is now criticized for its perceived biases and lack of nuance. The speaker, who gained attention for interviewing homeless people in Los Angeles, criticized the Times for its handling of a situation involving Candace Owens and Ukraine. He argues that the media, especially younger journalists, have become too focused on activism and political spins, making it difficult for audiences to trust their reporting. The speaker laments the loss of hard-nosed editors and the importance of objective journalism in reporting complex issues. He believes that journalists should choose between activism and journalism, as they cannot effectively do both.
The crisis of trust and objectivity in journalism: The digital age has led some journalists to prioritize clicks and ad revenue over objective reporting, blurring the lines between fact and opinion and damaging the profession's reputation.
The current state of journalism is facing a crisis of trust and objectivity. The lines between fact and opinion, and between journalism and activism, have become increasingly blurred. The pressure to attract clicks and ad revenue in the digital age has led some outlets to sensationalize stories and attack individuals based on their ideologies, rather than reporting objectively. This hostile environment has replaced the civil discourse and objective journalism that used to define the profession. The hunger for complexity, nuance, and honesty is growing, but it's a challenge for journalists to deliver that in the current climate, especially when working for large corporations with agendas. The rise of long-form podcasts and alternative media outlets that prioritize these values suggests a potential solution to this crisis. However, it will require a collective effort from journalists, editors, and media consumers to restore trust and integrity to journalism.
Editor's Influence on an Author's Voice: Editorial input can improve essays and ideas, but acknowledging mistakes and their influencing factors is essential to avoid groupthink and errors.
The editor's influence can significantly enhance an author's voice and perspective, leading to better essays and ideas. The rise of platforms like Substack has become essential for voices that struggle to find an unfiltered path to the mainstream. Matt Taibbi's admission of past mistakes and willingness to change his mind resonates with readers and fosters creativity and humility. However, fear and social pressure can also lead to errors and groupthink, making it crucial to acknowledge mistakes and the factors that influenced them. The Scout mindset, which highlights cognitive errors, is valuable but should be supplemented with an understanding of the role fear and social pressure play in shaping our beliefs and decisions.
The Power of Influence: Emboldening or Intimidating?: President Zelensky's bold stance against invasion emboldened his people and the world, while resistance to progressive policies can stem from a fear of government overreach. Individuals with a history of activism can feel compelled to use their voice and influence to effect change.
The power of influence can be contagious, whether it's the spread of harmful behaviors or the courage to stand up against them. In the case of Ukraine, President Zelensky's bold stance against invasion emboldened his people and the world. Conversely, the resistance to progressive policies, like centralizing psychiatric care, can stem from a fear of government overreach. Individuals like the speaker, who have a long history of activism, can feel compelled to use their voice and influence to effect change, especially when they are upset by the destruction of civilization and liberal democracy. The speaker's background includes a radical young activist who skipped high school to help the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, and now, as a candidate for governor, is taking a hard stance on civil issues.
From radical to nuanced: A life's journey in politics: The speaker's experiences shaped his perspective, leading him from radical views to a more nuanced approach, emphasizing evidence-based solutions and addressing root causes.
The speaker's experiences, including a near-death accident in childhood and activism for various causes, have shaped his perspective on life and politics. He shares a journey from a radical Marxist socialist to a more nuanced view, emphasizing the importance of avoiding extremes and learning from mistakes. The speaker's values, including environmental concerns, have remained consistent, but his understanding of certain issues, like drug policy and climate change, has evolved. He advocates for evidence-based solutions and recognizes the need for addressing the root causes of problems, such as addiction and mental health crises.
Society's Misplaced Focus on Preventable Causes of Death: Despite the harm caused by opioid overdoses, society's focus remains on the escape solution rather than addressing underlying issues like despair and trauma. Emphasis on personal responsibility in areas like diet, exercise, education, and mental health can build resilience and reduce the need for drugs.
Our society's focus on certain preventable causes of death, such as opioid overdoses from drugs like fentanyl, is not proportional to the harm they cause. The speaker shares personal experiences of losing friends to fentanyl overdoses and the alarming rate at which it's being brought into the country. The root cause of addiction is often deep despair and trauma, yet our focus remains on the escape solution rather than addressing the underlying issues. The speaker advocates for more emphasis on personal responsibility, particularly in areas like diet, exercise, education, and mental health, to build resilience and reduce the need for escapes like drugs. The societal shift towards coddling and anxiety over things beyond our control is a contributing factor to the rise in drug addiction and other societal issues.
Fear of technologies leading to dangerous dependencies: Fear-driven avoidance of technologies like nuclear power and fracking can result in dangerous dependencies, such as Europe's reliance on Russian energy, and relying too heavily on weather-dependent renewables can put people at risk.
Irrational fears and avoidance of certain technologies, such as nuclear power and fracking, can have serious consequences. In the case of Europe's reliance on Russian energy, the fear of nuclear power and fracking has led to a dangerous dependence on Russia, leaving them vulnerable to invasion and energy shortages. Similarly, in the case of natural disasters and power outages, relying too heavily on weather-dependent renewables can put people at risk. It's important to consider the long-term consequences and potential benefits of these technologies, rather than being driven by irrational fears. In the discussion, the speaker also touched upon the example of Fukushima, where fears led to inaction, ultimately contributing to the disaster. Additionally, the speaker mentioned the documentary "Gasland" and its portrayal of the negative impacts of fracking, but the extent of these concerns was not evaluated in the conversation.
From coal to natural gas: US cuts carbon emissions: The US reduced carbon emissions by shifting from coal to natural gas, which produces half the carbon emissions. Effective regulation addresses concerns like methane leaks and frack fluid disposal.
The United States significantly reduced its carbon emissions between 2005 and 2021, primarily by shifting from coal to natural gas for electricity generation. Natural gas produces about half the carbon emissions of coal. While methane leaks from natural gas production are a concern, they have declined during the expansion of fracking. The main issue with fracking is the proper disposal of contaminated frack fluid. With effective regulation, this issue can be addressed. Contrary to popular belief, natural gas is cleaner than coal when burned and is not the main contributor to greenhouse gas emissions, which have remained relatively stable globally over the last decade due to the shift from coal to natural gas and decreased land use change. It's important to recognize the progress made in regulating the industry and debunk common misconceptions.
The future of sustainable food production and environmental preservation: Urbanization, industrialization, and modern agriculture and energy sources hold the key to a more sustainable future. Nuclear power, with a focus on safety and waste management, could significantly reduce energy footprints. However, public perception and fear of nuclear disasters pose a challenge.
The future of sustainable food production and environmental preservation lies in urbanization, industrialization, and advancements in modern agriculture and energy sources. This includes moving away from traditional farming methods that require large expanses of land and towards more efficient, modern agriculture. Additionally, progress in nuclear power technology, with a focus on safety and waste management, has the potential to significantly reduce humankind's energy footprint. However, public perception and fear of nuclear disasters pose a significant challenge to the adoption of nuclear power as a sustainable energy source. Despite this, it's important to note that the worst environmental problems, such as the conversion of rainforests into farmland, should be addressed through continued urbanization and industrialization. The future holds promise for a more sustainable world, but it requires a shift in public perception and a commitment to investing in and implementing new technologies.
Anti-nuclear sentiment drives closure of zero-carbon power plants: Despite being a significant source of zero-carbon energy, nuclear power plants are being closed due to anti-nuclear sentiment. This can lead to increased reliance on fossil fuels and negative consequences for energy reliability and affordability.
The closure of nuclear power plants, such as Diablo Canyon in California, is driven by a mix of political and ideological reasons, despite the plants being a significant source of zero-carbon energy. The anti-nuclear sentiment is deeply rooted in a belief that nuclear power is harmful, and renewable energy is seen as a purer alternative. However, the closure of nuclear plants can lead to increased reliance on fossil fuels and have negative consequences for energy reliability and affordability, particularly for vulnerable communities. It's essential to challenge these misconceptions and promote a balanced understanding of the energy landscape to ensure a sustainable energy future.
Discussing population control and its implications: Bill Gates advocates for urbanization, education, and emotional well-being to reduce population growth, not coercion or sterilization.
The discussion revolves around the idea of population control for the sake of sustainability and the environment, with some expressing concerns of it being "anti-human." However, it's important to note that Bill Gates' perspective is not about coercion or sterilization, but rather encouraging urbanization and education, allowing people to have fewer children and focus on their potential. The speaker argues that these ideas stem from a depressed perspective and that human connection and population growth are essential. Additionally, there's a mention of the misconception that exercise is tied to far-right extremism, which is dismissed as a baseless claim. The core message is that emotional well-being, achieved through regular physical activity and addressing mental health, is crucial for individuals and society as a whole.
Exercise for Better Mental Health: Regular physical activity, especially high-intensity workouts, reduce anxiety, anger, and stress through endorphin release and energy expenditure.
Regular physical activity, particularly high-intensity workouts like weightlifting and running, can significantly improve mental health by reducing anxiety, anger, and stress. This is likely due to the body's evolutionary need for energy expenditure and the release of endorphins during exercise. The speaker suggests incorporating hard exercise, journaling, and avoiding technology first thing in the morning as part of a daily routine for optimal mental and emotional well-being. Additionally, the lack of physical activity in modern schools is a concern, as it may contribute to emotional dysregulation in students.
Push through challenges with discipline and the right mindset: Successful people overcome challenges through discipline, hard work, and a positive attitude. Mental health resources are crucial for overcoming addiction and other obstacles.
Developing healthy habits and overcoming challenges requires discipline and the right mindset. We often avoid hard tasks due to procrastination and lack of motivation, but it's essential to push through and make ourselves do them. Successful people, whether emotionally or physically, serve as good examples, and their achievements don't come without hard work and the occasional struggle. Additionally, mental health plays a crucial role in our ability to overcome obstacles and maintain good habits. To build a better system for mental health and addiction care, we need to establish more rehabilitation facilities and provide the necessary resources for those in need. It's important to remember that life's challenges are inevitable, but with the right attitude and support, we can overcome them and achieve our goals.
Addressing California's Homeless Crisis: A Comprehensive Approach: Successfully addressing California's homeless crisis requires a multi-faceted approach, including care, shelters, and rules enforcement. European cities have shown success by treating addiction as a societal issue and implementing triage, rehab, and shelter solutions.
Addressing the homeless crisis in California requires a comprehensive approach that includes providing necessary care, creating shelters, and enforcing rules against open drug use. The scale of the issue is significant, with around 200,000 unsheltered and unsheltered homeless people in the state. European cities that successfully shut down open drug scenes did so by mobilizing their societies and treating addiction as a societal problem. However, not all homeless people have family or friends to return to, and some refuse shelters due to the inability to use drugs. Creating triage stations, rehab facilities, and enforcing rules in shelters can make a difference in a matter of months. The challenge lies in implementing these solutions while acknowledging the complexities of the issue and the need for compassion and forgiveness.
Addressing drug scenes in cities: Discussions continue on where to build shelters for homeless drug users, with some favoring areas of strong political support and others focusing on harder-hit areas. Ultimately, the goal is to protect human rights, enforce camping bans, and clean up cities while encouraging shelter use.
The open drug scenes in cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles are a significant issue, with many individuals becoming catatonic from drug use right on the streets. These scenes are not limited to the homeless population, as some people may have places to stay but still choose to use drugs in these areas due to their urgency for a fix. To address this issue, there are ongoing discussions about where to start building shelters and providing resources, with some arguing to begin in areas with the strongest local political support, while others suggest starting in harder-hit areas like Los Angeles. The ultimate goal is to protect human rights and individual rights, while also enforcing camping bans and cleaning up cities to prevent further destruction. The success in smaller cities like Austin serves as an example of the potential impact of such efforts. However, it's important to note that physically forcing people into shelters is a challenge, and alternative methods of encouragement will be necessary.
Approach to addressing homelessness: A multi-faceted approach is needed, including mental health & addiction treatment, police presence, neighborhood redevelopment, personalized rehab programs, engaged case managers, and collaboration with other states & federal govt.
Addressing the issue of homelessness requires a multi-faceted approach. This includes providing resources for mental health and addiction treatment, increasing police presence, redeveloping neighborhoods, and offering personalized rehabilitation programs. It's important to remember that each person's needs are unique, and a centralized system with engaged case managers can help ensure successful rehabilitation and reintegration into society. Additionally, addressing the issue of homelessness in one area, like California, should not result in an increased burden for that state alone. Collaboration with other states and the federal government is necessary to ensure a fair distribution of resources and responsibility. Ultimately, a comprehensive and personalized approach, combined with partnership and shared responsibility, is key to effectively addressing the issue of homelessness.
Multi-faceted approach to homeless crisis: Focus on 'shelter first' and 'treatment first', legislation, emergency actions, institutional arrangements, legal considerations, workforce development, inspire and support law enforcement, potential federal involvement, significant cost but California can lead the way, crucial for other challenges
Addressing the homeless crisis requires a multi-faceted approach with a focus on "shelter first" and "treatment first." This approach involves legislation, emergency actions, institutional arrangements, legal considerations, and workforce development. The speaker also emphasizes the importance of inspiring and supporting law enforcement and the need for co-responders. The cost of addressing the crisis may be significant, but the speaker believes that California, with its current surplus and potential federal involvement, can lead the way for the rest of the country. Ultimately, solving the homeless crisis is crucial for tackling other challenges, such as school reform, energy, and reducing the cost of living.
Addressing California's homelessness challenge with practical solutions: Exploring alternative solutions like utilizing existing resources for mass sheltering could be more feasible and effective than providing individual apartments to every unsheltered person.
The current approach to addressing homelessness in California, with the goal of providing each unsheltered person their own apartment unit, is not feasible due to the high cost and logistical challenges. A more practical solution could involve utilizing existing resources, such as office buildings or FEMA shelters, to provide basic and safe shelter for a larger number of people. However, political considerations and ideological beliefs may hinder the implementation of such solutions. The speaker also expressed skepticism towards the strategy of Governor Gavin Newsom to gain support from left-leaning groups by promising every homeless person their own apartment unit, as it may not be a realistic or effective approach.
Misunderstandings and Consequences of Political Ideologies: Reducing police funding and resources could embolden criminals and increase crime rates. Better training and respect for officers is important, but more funding and support is necessary to address crime effectively and hold officers accountable.
The divide between political ideologies, such as defunding the police, can lead to misunderstandings and negative consequences. The speaker argues that reducing police funding and resources would embolden criminals and increase crime rates. They also emphasize the importance of better training and respect for law enforcement officers. The speaker's perspective is that more funding and support for the police is necessary to address crime effectively and hold officers accountable for misconduct. Additionally, the speaker believes that those who advocate for defunding the police should consider the potential consequences of their actions.
Effective homelessness solutions prioritize housing and rehabilitation: Housing first approach prioritizes sheltering homeless individuals, while rehabilitation offers hope for those suffering from addiction through treatments like Ibogaine, despite its illegality in the US.
Addressing homelessness effectively requires prioritizing housing first, as opposed to allowing people to camp in public places. New York City, before the pandemic, was a leading example with over 95% of its homeless population sheltered. However, the distinction between sheltered and unsheltered homeless is often overlooked by the public. Many homeless individuals, particularly those suffering from addiction, can benefit from rehabilitation and residential care. While rehab has a high relapse rate, more effective solutions such as psychedelic treatments, specifically Ibogaine, have shown promise in helping people overcome addiction. Ibogaine is illegal in the US but legal in Mexico, where centers have been established for treatment. California, with its large homeless population, could benefit from scientific trials of these treatments under medical supervision.
California's approach to drug addiction and homelessness needs a shift: California needs a more proactive approach to drug addiction and homelessness, including psychiatric evaluations, various treatment methods, and a culture that encourages personal responsibility and reconnection to society, to help individuals recover and reintegrate into society.
Assertive case management and a focus on recovery are crucial for addressing the drug addiction and homelessness crisis in California. Current approaches, which prioritize maintenance over recovery and provide few incentives for individuals to change their behaviors, are not effective and may even attract more people. To make progress, California needs to adopt a more proactive and practical approach, which includes psychiatric evaluations, various treatment methods (such as psychedelics, antipsychotics, and suboxone), and a culture that encourages personal responsibility and reconnection to society. The ultimate goal should be to help individuals recover from addiction and reintegrate into society, rather than simply maintaining their current state. This will require a shift in mindset and resources, but it is essential for addressing the root causes of the crisis and improving the lives of those affected.
Addressing Homelessness: A Comprehensive Approach: A successful approach to homelessness includes universal access to shelter, rehab facilities, care for mentally ill, case managers, housing as reward for good behavior, and addressing education issues.
Effectively addressing homelessness requires a comprehensive approach that includes universal access to basic shelter, rehabilitation facilities, permanent residential care for mentally ill individuals, and a large workforce of well-trained case managers. The Netherlands serves as an example of a successful model, where housing is not an entitlement but a reward for good behavior. This approach, which includes both carrots (rewards) and sticks (consequences), is more effective than simply providing shelter without any incentives for improvement. Additionally, addressing issues like education, particularly in underperforming schools, is crucial to preventing homelessness in the first place. The challenges are significant, but with the right resources and strategies, progress can be made.
Governor's call for more parental choice and innovation in education: Governor advocates for longer school days, better PE, personalized education, and vocational training. He also emphasizes the need for public involvement in education and societal issues through citizens juries and long-form deliberation.
There is a need for more parental choice and innovation in education, including longer school days and better physical education. However, this may require negotiation with teachers unions and potentially more resources for schools. The importance of personalized education and vocational training for students not bound for college was also emphasized. The governor expressed a desire to involve the public in building consensus on education and other societal issues through citizens juries and long-form deliberation. The role of a governor as a leader involves tackling numerous complex issues, requiring the allocation of tasks to capable individuals.
New California Governor's Agenda: Crisis Management and Long-Term Vision: The new governor plans to tackle immediate crises and implement long-term infrastructure projects, emphasizing the importance of providing abundance, opportunity, and realizing human potential.
The new governor of California plans to address the immediate crises of homelessness, drugs, crime, and energy instability with executive and legislative actions, while also focusing on long-term infrastructure expansion and education reform. He believes that people have lost sight of the purpose of civilization, which is to provide abundance, opportunity, and realize human potential. The governor attributes the current "woke" ideology taking over the education system to a declining belief in a higher power and a human need for meaning and purpose. He aims to improve public education, expand choices, and ensure energy and water abundance.
Revitalizing Traditional Institutions: Revitalize and reaffirm traditional institutions, find common ground, and make necessary reforms to ensure a livable and morally sound society for all.
As traditional institutions like religion, education, mental health care, infrastructure, and governance face challenges and change, it's crucial to revitalize and reaffirm them rather than abandon them. This includes finding common ground between opposing viewpoints, such as urban development and neighborhood quality, and making necessary reforms to ensure a livable and morally sound society for all. The speaker, who is considering running for governor, emphasizes the importance of addressing these issues to restore California's tarnished reputation and improve the lives of its residents.
Emphasizing the Importance of Social Safety Nets: Growing up on welfare, the speaker advocated for essential social safety nets, criticized unrealistic 'pull yourself up' mentality, and emphasized the need for good schools, care for the least among us, and empathy towards those struggling, rather than judgment.
Social safety nets are essential for families and individuals facing hardships. The speaker, who grew up on welfare, emphasized the importance of these programs and criticized the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality as unrealistic for those starting from disadvantaged backgrounds. They also highlighted the need for a functioning social safety net and good schools to support individuals and communities. The speaker also encouraged understanding and empathy towards those struggling, rather than judgment, and emphasized the importance of all three: freedom, care for the least among us, and civilization. The current climate of chaos and uncertainty provides an opportunity for thoughtful and nuanced conversations about these issues, and the speaker expressed confidence that people will make informed decisions based on facts rather than sensationalized media narratives.
Criticizing the current administration and building a coalition for change: An individual with political aspirations criticizes the recent state address, builds a coalition, and advocates for improvements to the psychiatric care system, considering ballot initiatives as a potential solution.
The individual being discussed is focused on his political goals and believes in the failure of the current administration. He criticized the recent state of the state address as arrogant and lacking substance, particularly regarding the homeless crisis. Despite this, he remains confident in his ability to make a difference and has been building a coalition to support his potential gubernatorial campaign. He has experience as an activist and has tried various methods to bring about change, including directly approaching lawmakers. However, he acknowledges that there may be challenges and limitations to what can be accomplished without holding office. The concept of beginner's mind is important to him, as he recognizes that there may be aspects of governance that he doesn't fully understand yet. The individual is advocating for improvements to the state's psychiatric care system, which may involve changing the constitution, and is considering using ballot initiatives as a potential solution.
Newsom takes bold actions to address mismanagement in California agencies: Governor Newsom is taking assertive steps to investigate and address mismanagement within California agencies, including going in-person to investigate and potentially fire those responsible, despite potential backlash. He's also addressing the issue of stolen unemployment benefits during the pandemic with a 'strike force'.
California Governor, Gavin Newsom, plans to take bold actions to address issues within the state's agencies by going in-person to investigate and fire those responsible for mismanagement. He's not afraid of potential backlash from unions or public criticism. This approach stems from his belief that assertive leadership is necessary to tackle the state's challenges. Additionally, Newsom discussed the $22 billion in stolen unemployment benefits during the pandemic and his plan to send a "strike force" to investigate the issue. Despite potential opposition, Newsom is confident that he can explain his actions to voters and believes that there is a growing interest in his non-partisan approach. He has assembled a team of experienced professionals, including some from Arnold Schwarzenegger's administration, to help him implement his vision.
Challenging the Status Quo and Pushing for Change: Speaker's strong disagreeable personality trait drives them to challenge outdated institutions and create new ones to address current issues, such as homelessness and local government dysfunction in California.
The speaker has a strong disagreeable personality trait, which drives them to challenge the status quo and push for change, even if it means going against established institutions or protocols. They believe in the importance of creating new institutions when the old ones become corrupt and failing. The speaker is currently focused on addressing issues in California, including homelessness and the functioning of local governments. They believe that with the right resources and institutional changes, significant progress can be made in a short period. The speaker also criticizes current political leaders for being captive to the system and not effectively addressing crises.
The Expert Class's Failure to Provide Accurate Guidance During Crises: During crises, those in charge may lack experience and experts may be consistently wrong, emphasizing the importance of individuals who can think outside the box and challenge the status quo for effective crisis management
During times of crisis, those in charge may lack the necessary experience to effectively handle the situation, especially if they have spent their careers focusing on climbing the ladder rather than solving complex problems. The expert class, who have been consistently wrong in their recommendations regarding COVID, homelessness, crime, and energy, have contributed to the catastrophic situations we see today. The failure of these experts to provide accurate guidance highlights the need for individuals who can think outside the box and challenge the status quo. The Dutch, for example, have shown that investing in nuclear power can help reduce dependence on foreign energy sources and provide a model for effective crisis management. It is crucial to support those who can offer alternative solutions and challenge the expert class's monopoly on decision-making.
Leadership and Responsibility: Effective leaders take bold actions with care and responsibility, even when faced with risks, as demonstrated by the Dutch party's approach to drug scenes and Frankl's belief in personal responsibility.
Effective leadership involves taking bold, responsible actions, even when faced with significant risks. The Dutch political party's approach to addressing open drug scenes in Amsterdam, which involved shutting down the scenes and providing care for those in need, is an example of this principle. This "tough love" approach, which requires great care and responsibility, can lead to enormous benefits and prevent greater risks. The importance of taking responsibility was also emphasized by Victor Frankl, who survived the death camps in Nazi Germany through mental strength and the belief that people need to take responsibility for their actions and care for others. To complete the American project, as Frankl suggested, the statue of liberty on the East Coast should be complemented with a statue of responsibility on the West Coast. Ultimately, true freedom and care for people cannot be achieved without taking responsibility.
